The numbers were totally…yeah…not good. I stand by the general concept though.
I use S/P for PvE (with D/D as my second weapon set)
I trait 5/30/0/30/5 for Executioner, Signets of Power, Signet Use, Power of Inertia. Quick Recovery and Assassin’s Reward.
The 5 in Trickery and Deadly Arts can be allocated anywhere you want.
My Utility skills are
Signet of Malice, Assassin’s Signet, Infiltrator’s Signet/Signet of Shadows (depending on what you’re doing), Haste and Dagger Storm.
My armor sucks…typical green/blue lvl 80 trash. My S/P are both rare traveler’s/Orrian of Air and my accessories are all Emerald Orichalcum Earring(s)/Ring(s)/Amulet of the Berserker (exotics with lots of toughness and power, socketed with exquisite ruby for more power and crit damage.
Typically I can solo just about anything in Orr. 5 mobs? No problem, pop Haste and Pistol Whip. Let SoM heal you, running low on Initiative? use a Signet, gain initiative and might, continue your pistol whip spam.
Are you in CS farming events and a good 10-15 Risen are nearby? pop haste, dagger storm and lol…you just tagged every mob in sight, you’re unkillable while DS is active (you gain that much health) and at the very least each mob now has 1/2 health, just be careful not to end DS in the middle of them because you just collected all the Agro.
S/P in terms of PvE is incredibly broken…even in dungeons I tend to tank better then bunker guardians as long as I don’t run out of Initiative.
head shot and unload, focus on the enemies who get greedy and get in range of the gigantic positioning/posture battles so your team can stomp them. You can also spam black powder to help your allies.
Having a straight +100% attack speed boost is pretty over the top; and this is coming from a Mesmer. Make it +33% at least because that boon is in a league of its own.
Which is why I’ve spec’d my thief into quickness+might every time I dodge. You have no idea how broken that is…
It’s the Signet under your healing utility. It’s quite good in the right build but really bad in the wrong one.
I actually support hard-to-do bypasses to gates like this, it adds new dimensions to gameplay rather then LOL SIEGE THE GATE FOR 20 MINUTES.
The render bug needs fixing badly and the revealed debuff needs to apply at the end of every stealth.
Condition isn’t very good in Orr because tons of mobs have CC. You’re essentially forced to partner up or you’re going to end up being pulled into 3-4 mobs who are going to burst you down.
That’s another reason why I refuse to do a condition build…because its bad in PvP, WvW and when you hit lvl 80 its bad for PvE.
You know, i really want this idea to develop enough to be considered, so instead of just saying whats wrong and overpowered about the weapon set he suggested, why not give suggestions or write your own, here I’ll start.
Skill 1: Piercing Shot
2 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds
Damage: 200
Range: 1200
Cast time: 1.5Skill 2: Cripple Shot
3 sec cripple
Damage: 100
Range: 1200
cast time: 1 second
Initiative Cost: 4Skill 3: Tag Shot
Rips boons from target and grants them to allies around the target
Damage: 100
Range: 1200
Radius: 200
Cast time: 1.5
Initiative Cost: 5Skill 4: Venom Shot
3 second poison
Damage: 250
Cast time: 1 second
Initiative Cost: 5Skill 5: Vanish – Gain stealth and swiftness
Stealth duration: 2 seconds
Swiftness duration: 5 seconds
Initiative cost: 8I would probably also add that all skills do 15% more dmg if you are standing still, meaning that u have to trade mobility for dmg. Note: these numbers are arbitrary and are just there for reference.
Hey look, someone who didn’t troll.
S/P Signet Thief is viable as a damage/survivability thief (people saying PW’s damage is matched by auto attack aren’t building for Power/Toughness/Crit Dmg). It absolutely owns in PvE and with support it owns in PvP/WvW.
In a single WvW session I got 28 kills, trick is you need to immobilize or surprise them with shadow step, pop haste and then PW them. If done correctly you’ll do 14k+ damage in a very short period of time.
Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.
That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.
Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?
The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND
I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.
Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.
I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.
Exactly, I’ve taken down players with a HS spam before. It’s hard to avoid, costs very little initiative and closes the gap when they start running. HS also tends to scale in damage, the lower the health of the target, the more damage that is dealt.
Backstab is good but it’ not broken…not considering the amount of damage other classes can do which exceeds that of a Thief.
+1. If you take a lvl 80 glass Thief and have them backstab with full exotics vs each individual class and they have full exotics I’d love to see what the damage actually is.
I actually have a PW thief still, for PvE its really, really, really good. For PvP its only good if the opponent is immobilized or if they’re bad.
Haste though is what makes PW good, it allows you to basically do 2 pistol whips in the time frame of 1…broken? Not really but I could see how people would cry about it when they’re bad enough not to dodge or save their remove condition for when they get immobilized.
If you still want to use Pistol Whip build a Signet Thief who functions more like a brawler/bully.
Signets of Power, Signet Use, Assassin’s Reward, Executioner are the main traits to use…rest is optional…as is the 5 points in the 1st and 5th trait tree (they can be put anywhere).
So basically 5/30/30/0/5
Signet of Malice, Assassin’s Signet, Signet of Shadows OR Signet of Agility (Agility may be better because it removes a condition), Haste, Dagger Storm.
the score board as of this post.
GJ borlis on the push last night. i was listening to my guys in mumble and it seemed that patch during prime time really hurt us.
When I left BP had a tiny, tiny sliver of the pie. We took 2 castles but you guys stopped us on the 3rd when we were inside the keep with some well implemented ambushes.
*Unload should stack bleeds for each shot. It would be a significant buff to Thief condition builds but not entirely overpowered because players have loads of condition removals.
No thank you. This would completely destroy my burst damage Unload build which is already weaker than many other builds.
How on earth would that destroy your burst damage unload thief? If anything wouldn’t it buff it? Considering it would stack a ton of bleeds as well as do a small burst of damage?
Condition Thief is fine for the most part.
I ran a condition thief for a long time, it’s anything but fine…even in PvE its terrible.
Pistol Whip is only good if your opponent thinks its good to stand in your AoE or if your allies hold your enemy. It practically needs haste to be viable vs players.
Sniper Rifles will be a 2 handed weapon and to synergize with the skill tree it will be classified as a pistol.
Skills 3 and 5 will be considered dual wield skills.
What does the Sniper Rifle offer the Thief?
It offers them high single target damage spikes vs a single target at a considerable range at the cost of mobility.
Skill 1: Mobility Shot – cripple your foes with a shot to the legs
Cripple for 3 seconds
Damage: 350 (or something reasonably high)
Range: 1300 (its a sniper rifle)
The casting time of this attack should be somewhat high as well (I’m thinking the came casting time as the current Body Shot), its a sniper rifle with long range and high damage that’s meant to pick on specific targets.
Skill 2: Piercing Shot – Make your foes vulnerable with an armor piercing shot
3 stacks of Vulnerability for 5 seconds
Damage: 550
Range: 1300
Initiative Cost: 4
This shot will pass through any player until it hits its full 1300 range, applying full damage and vulnerability to anyone in its path.
Skill 3: Targeted Shot – Mark your foes with a tracker, increasing your allies critical chance against them.
Damage: 450
Range: 1300
Initiative Cost: 5
Increase Critical Chance against target for 5 seconds by 10%. Stacks in intensity.
Skill 4: Venomous Ammunition -Venoms in your Utility slots are applied to your attacks for the next 5 attacks.
Initiative Cost: 5
This means all venoms (does not include your elite slot) will be applied to any attack you perform for the next 5 attacks.
Skill 5: Tactical Retreat – Leave a illusion behind as you stealth. This illusion explodes after 5 seconds or upon death, dealing high damage to foes closest to the Illusion.
Initiative Cost: 7
Illusion Damage: 50%
Illusion Damage Taken: 100%
Damage at 350: 950
Damage at 550: 450
Damage at 750: 250
P/P definitely needs a buff
*Someone mentioned making black powder give stealth. I 100% agree, same stats as before but gives the Thief 3 seconds of stealth.
*Body Shot needs a total reworking, high cast time, low vulnerability stack and high initiative cost with minimal damage…it’s probably the worst weapon skill in the game.
I’d suggest lowering its cast time (significantly) and initiative cost to 3 or totally revamping the ability to allow for some mobility options.
*Unload should stack bleeds for each shot. It would be a significant buff to Thief condition builds but not entirely overpowered because players have loads of condition removals.
S/P to be honest feels like it was overnerfed.
*Pistol Whip needs a buff, auto-attacking does comparable damage unless I pop haste and a half-decent player wont stand still in the Pistol Whip.
As for general buffs, please buff traps. I never use them because they are highly situational and often ineffective. Give the Thief a reason to use them.
As for the general nerf to damage spikes, I feel Hidden Killer is part of the problem here, it’s clearly a trait for backstab builds. Give it a cooldown, fix the rendering issue
(yesterday in WvW an ally had this happen, a Glass Cannon thief was perma invis and wailed on my ally, killing him another was about to die while healing because he was invisible for well over 5 seconds so I had to shadow step in and pop Dagger Storm to make the perma invisible thief retreat.)
As a final note I’d love to see a Sniper Rifle weapon set added to the Thief.
How did they know your GF was a girl. Did she publicly stated she was a girl? Just how did that chat really looked like?
“hello Im a gurl and I need help”
Something smells fishy here…
My guess is she has a feminine name that immediately denotes her gender to others.
My char has a feminine name too and I’m a guy. I don’t get those kind of comments.
Chances are she ran into some 12 year olds being idiots, report them, have a laugh at their expense (at their depravity) and move on.
Yesterday GoM were owning, we obliterated BP (thank god they seem to always have a absurd monopoly on controlling 3/4ths of the maps) Hopefully it can stay a bit more even for the next week or so…
As someone already mentioned this should be addressed by capturing ALT+F4 (I’d even go as far as to monitor a "end task or tend task tree in the CTRL+ATL+DEL as well), not with a general disconnection.
2 hours for a 300 karma event that rewards you 1.5 silver?
Riiiiiiight
Or lobby for more expedient bot banning so we the gigantic zergs are less gigantic.
15/30/0/25/0
D/D, S/P
I run equipment that focuses on power, toughness and precision.
A few tricks I use is for my heal I use SoM and Assassin’s Reward, combined with Pistol Whip I can solo veteran and champion mobs on Orr (if no one else is attacking me)
Or I can jump around the battle field like a crazed money with D/D thrashing every mob OR I can find groups of enemies such as in events on Cursed Shore and AoE using DB.
Another trick if you learn how to time it right is to Dagger Storm+Hatse (with SoM), which deals immense damage in a massive AoE and keeps you healed fully (or kitten near with 15+ mobs beating on you). The trick with that last one is to make sure when it ends you’re not stuck in a spot where they can all eat you alive since you just collected all the agro.
I’m an adult and I have all exotic accessories. :/ If you do a tiny bit of research you’ll find the quick, cheap ways to do stuff…like buy your finished exotics from the TP instead of making them (because lvling crafting is a boring, boring grind).
uhm… it’s a team game? Also, do you really want a thief bursting you down in 3 secs just after you finally got to that supply camp you all the way across the map you wanted to take? You can interrupt the revive just as easily as the stomp. Anet built this game so that burst can happen VERY quickly. As a result, the “fight to survive” is necessary so battles wont seem too one-sided when the numbers start adding up.
Exactly. It’s a two way street. Take away the fight to survive and the game will be much more sacky in a single direction. Either thiefs will pick you apart of the numbers will crush you.
Looks pretty solid but the SB seems to be a bit of a mistake, you almost never use it.
Why not try S/P and D/D?
S/P gives you head shot for interrupts, black power for defense vs msemsers and rangers (which gave you the hardest time) and pistol whip if they’re bad enough to try to tank your damage (which also gives you a interrupt). It also lets you keep your shadow return.
D/D gives you your DD, CnD (since stealth is very important for your build), heart seeker (excellent for closing gaps and finishing off opponents) and DB for AoE, which you situationally need (and the evade/bleed stacks).
For fast traveling you could always carry your SB to spam infiltrator’s arrow and when you’re about to enter battle swap it out for another Dagger.
To me at least it seems this would fit your playstyle a bit more (I also use this build but I’m traited into acrobatics instead of shadow arts so I use Sigils and dodge heavily instead of stealth).
Which part of “Please note the numbers are rough and may need to be adjusted” wasn’t clear? I find comments like “I’ll give you that you probably didn’t put too much thought into exact numbers” rude.
P/P, D/P thiefs need AoE, this gives them AoE.
I didn’t realize the engineer actually has Blunderbuss as an ability however the mechanics are vastly different…vastlty different.
Engineer’s blunderbuss doesn’t shoot several individual shots which do the same damage at any range with a cone firing pattern from the user (thus causing more shots to hit the target the closer they are)
A Blunderbuss is a oversized pistol that shoots buck shot, it’s not a rifle and is the precursor to the shotgun. It isn’t a rifle so that argument is totally moot.As for not fitting the thief:
“Steal
Shadowstep
Shadow Trap
Infiltrator’s Signet”
It fits perfectly. If you meant fitting the role of the thief, thief itself doesn’t fit the thief. The thief we currently have is more like an Assassin. So again, point moot.
I know you’re trying to be helpful but this came across as passive-aggressive nay saying for the sake of nay saying. I suspect you didn’t read anything but that stats and the name.
Anet needs to look into this asap. This is akin to a hockey player picking up the puck, skating to the opponents net and throwing it in.
SoM is a beastly skill.
I use it in my D/D, S/P build with Assassin’s Reward and I don’t use Caltrops (usually).
Haste+DS+SoM=full heal, lots of AoE dps
Haste+PW+SoM=10k AoE dmg, lots of heal
then you have DB+SoM which heals a good 1-2k
And with the speed daggers attack at that means I heal 300-400 health for every auto-attack cycle.
SoM is highly underrated but it’s more of a niche ability. If you build for the self-healing thief using Assassin’s Reward and SoM you’ll have some amazing survivability that rivals Guardians.
As long as the spike is softened for more equalized dps I’ll be fine with a nerf.
Like when Assassin’s Signet got a nerf, it nerfed the burst but increased the overall dps so have a little faith. Anet aren’t idiots, they clearly want the thief to still do high damage but they also want to see the thief take a bit more skill. So far they’ve achieved this by lowering the burst and increasing overall dps.
If they compensate the Thief for reduced backstab damage by, say buffing poison damage (just an example, it could be anything really to help equalize the damage output of the D/D thief rather then give it super-high bursts) then I’d be fine with it.
But imo the major, major issue with backstab is the faulty rendering. If people could actually see the thief the huge damage spikes would be mitigated by “revealed” debuff (which still doesn’t work properly as people hove shown, can be bypassed by not attacking and chaining your stealth skills. Revealed should be applied at the end of a stealth skill regardless if you decide to dance, cry, sit or backstab.)
That build looked okay…not amazing…just okay.
+4% karma and gold boost for every consecutive month on your server (infinitely stackable).
It couldn’t ever be a combat stat because of WvW/PvP
MF as Bruno suggested isn’t bad either but that could get screwy with the economy and long-time server loyalists who end up with a +400% MF and pull nothing but the best drops and unload them onto the TP.
Will check that one out.
Never been a fan of berserker gear though, makes me feel fragile.
Don’t spec full berserker then. I’m running Emerald Orichalcum Earring/Ring/Amulet of the Berserker for a rounded power/toughness/precision/crit damage approach.
My armor is going to be power/toughness focused and I’m thinking of throwing on Runes of Divinity for more well-rounded stats and a additional 12% crit damage.
My point being you don’t have to go full glass cannon spec. There is middle ground.
I have an 80 Thief, and an 80 Warrior, you are DELUSIONAL if you dont think Thiefs are getting nerfed soon.
I think that bar CnD there’s nothing that deserves a nerf but we can’t even be sure if CnD is actually worth addressing because we have a render issue making the matter convoluted.
Warriors have Adrenaline
Necromancers have their 2nd hp bar
Engineers have their toolbelt
Not sure what Mesmers and Guardians have…
S/D is pretty…bleh, I don’t like it.
S/P isn’t bad…it’s great at face-tanking with Pistol Whip+SoM+Haste however other then that its options are pretty limited. You get Black Powder, Shadow Step and your auto attack which has some AoE.
Personally I run S/P but I only bust it out vs lvl 80 Veteran mobs…the stuff I need to stun and tank. My main weapon set is D/D
I’d be down for buffing the numbers on elites.
Or the thief could just.. not attack anyone, or stand near that guy. Its a really huge circle, you’d need a lot of people to ensure the entire circle is in a constant state of AoE.
Even worse, imagine they blow all their cooldowns on getting the thief and the enemy zerg comes it right after.
Can you say barrel full of monkeys and someone has a shotgun full of buckshot?
You’re right, it is the hallmark of the Thief. The thing is the Thief can’t do it all. They can do 1-2 things with that initiative.
For a backstab thief that’s stealth and dish out those 8k backstabs
For my tank-thief that’s spam 3-5k crits while healing
So pick on where they are vulnerable. backstab thiefs are squishy. Tank-thiefs lack reliable stealth capabilities and dedicate initiative into things like spaming HS or Pistol Whip.
Carrion Armor drops regularly and it all boosts your condition damage pretty good.
If you have a excess of gold you can also get exotic carrion accessories from the TC for around 2-3 gold a piece (I recently did this except mine’s emerald for toughness).
Also, a word of advice don’t get all Whisper armor. you can mix and match the karma armor for the best stats.
Armageddon Helm (precision 32, power 32, cond. dmg 45)
Whispering Shoulders (24 precision, 24 tough, cond. dmg 34 )
Mortal or Whispering Chest (precision 72, tough 72, cond. dmg 101)
Armageddon or Whispering Gloves(24 precision, 24 tough, cond. dmg 34)
Rubicon, Aurora, Mortal or Whispering Legs (48 precision, 48 tough, 67 cond. dmg)
Mortal Feet (24 precision, 24 tough, 34 cond. dmg)
Total of 315 condition damage.
For accessories your best bet would be to go for
Chrysocola Orichalcum Amulet, Earrings, Rings of the Barserker to give you these stats
+365 Power
+336 Cond. dmg
+240 Vitality
+75 Precision
+15% crit damage
This doesn’t include your back brace.
I’m in the same boat as you, saving up for karma armor, using armor that I farmed in Cursed Shore (some of its pretty good, just keep farming and you’ll get some good drops).
596471;Radiodread.8469:]Don’t be that guy. Come into WvW and play WvW. I don’t know why Anet even put the isolated npc DE’s into the WvW maps. If you are going to do it, at least do it at a time when your server has low WvW populations and you aren’t detering from the effort by taking up a spot.
From what I’ve been reading I can make 2k karma in 10 minutes anyhow by zerging.
I think I’ll just stick to that, it helps my server and gets me insane karma. (72k karma in 6 hours without boosters)
DB has bleed because thiefs need more then the SB for viable AoE.
DB has decent damage but its pretty lack-luster compared to other AoE abilities.
Personally, I’d rather see it apply poison. Leave the bleeding to the pistols ty.
So I now see the bots have stopped wearing gear and are out en masse.
I counted 10 bears.
And in the other area, through the tunnel there was a group of 15 bots all camping the spawns before they had a chance to even enter the camp, preventing anyone from killing those mobs without separating themselves for the other mobs by a considerable distance and occasionally causing a massive wave to flood through.
This is getting stupid…can we please have a GM look into this? (yes I’ve reported this in-game…over and over)
I have this problem all the stinking time…
Just because you said that I’m going to Anvil Rock and I’m gonna use Shadow Refuge to cause the rendering bug on my entire zerg. Invisible Warriors spaming Adrenaline abilities be ware.
From what I’ve read Legendary Defenders are invincible.
Are you trolling?
(edited by BabelFish.7234)
Capping the AoE boons/heals seems like a viable solution. Only 5 people should be effected just like AoE damage. This won’t effect PvE except for some major DE events like dragons and Cursed Shore (can’t speak for dragons but CS is mainly bots being obnoxious anyhow).