Guild Wars 2

Tulisin.6945:

BabelFish.7234:

Sigils should be Superior Sigil of Force.

Unless they fixed it, two of those don’t stack. Also you’re going deep crit chance and incredible hit volume, but no crit proc sigil?

Instead of Signet of Shadows, take Signet of Agility. An actual useful passive in a dungeon fight and and active that’ll give you free instant condition removal and endurance to feed into 3 more might stacks.

You can always run a sigil of force+sigil of air (I recently got my berserker’s pear sabre so I’ll be getting a superior sigil of air pretty soon (my old sword had it). I actually use SoA a lot but on the run I need the 25% movement when dealing with the trash mobs in Orr.

In combat my mouse is constantly impossible to find in the mass particle effects, this actually hinders my play-style. I’d like a option to change the cursor color and potentially size so it becomes incredibly easy to find.

castlemanic.3198:

Ah okay then. No problem. While i still disagree with the method of improvement, an improvement is needed for Orr.

If we’re just dealing with Orr, I like your method better: take some of the CC away from the mobs. It would be a heck of a lot less messy and centralized.

Ive been sitting at CS for a while now and only one of the events is spawning to defend the camp…these bugged DEs are getting annoying.

I should specify that in the OP, this is regards to Orr only. Thanks for the reminder.

I agree as well, I’d love to have the ability to put anything I want in my elite skill slot…which makes sense to me, it’s the elite slot…where the not-so-elite abilities go.

Kelliak.9152:

BabelFish.7234:

To be honest thieves are typically bad in PvE. You either go P/D, D/D (which starts to fail at higher levels and in dungeons) or S/P and if you go S/P you have to use weird builds or you end up being to fragile to survive in dungeons.

Yes, dungeons are just a problem in general, figured that how when I grabbed aggro without doing much of anything.

S/P is probably, in my opinion, the only real viable option for PvE though as it can allow you to surmount obstacles that otherwise would’ve been impossible or incredibly annoying to get around with other weapon sets. Only problem is again, like the rest of the thief, it is extremely boring and dull.

I got this game for a more interactive combat system, not to wish I had cruise control as I cut my way through thousands of Orrians screaming, “Death. Good!” Ho, ho, ho…. indeed, death is preferable to the thief profession.

Can’t say I’m far from that point myself.
Getting pulled, crippled and feared by mobs constantly in Orr from absurd ranges isn’t exactly fun or balanced to the Thief who only has 1-2 outs to conditions and CC effects.

If I didn’t have so much invested into my thief I’d probably reroll too.

castlemanic.3198:

while it is annoying, there are methods against it. For fear and immobilise, you need condition removals, and for all other control effects, you need stability. Both of which are offered in the game. There are also specific traits that help the player against CCs. There is no need to have diminishing returns on CCs, because there are plenty of options to deal with them.

Yes, because as a character you clearly have enough counters to mass CC. I’m a thief so I have 1-2 options to deal with this and there’s far, far more CC then 1-2 being thrown at you in Orr. It’s absolutely ridiculous that I’m essentially forced to fight ever trash mob on the way to my destination, especially when I’m lvl 80 already and there’s almost no reason to fight them anymore.

Not every mob should have CC abilities but they do for some ill-conceived reason.
So lets make it so players can’t be CC’d so bloody much they can’t even get to their destination in any sort of timely manner…heck we just did a Temple run a moment ago I ended up getting killed, the nearest waypoint was contested so I have to run from CS to get there…that’s fine, I can dodge the attacks as they come until I get meat hooked and then mass CC’d by everything in the area, forcing me to fight through that ungodly mess so I can go help clear the temple. If I don’t deal with the mobs and try to run away I end up getting there with half health and end up dying again…rinse, lather repeat.

Mass CC on trash mobs in Orr was a terrible idea.

EDIT: this is in regards to Orr only…too much CC, either the amount of CC needs a reduction or the following should be implemented.

There is nothing worse then being feared 3 times in a row, being pulled 3 times in a row or permanently immobilized. It’s frustrating, dumb and bad design.

What I propose is to add a buff the players who have been CC’d that makes them immune to CC for X amount of seconds after the 1st CC effect/condition wears off.

This would only apply to PvE.

To be honest thieves are typically bad in PvE. You either go P/D, D/D (which starts to fail at higher levels and in dungeons) or S/P and if you go S/P you have to use weird builds or you end up being to fragile to survive in dungeons.

After vast refinement I’ve come up with this build which is simply amazing for PvE including dungeons. It focuses on survivability and sustained melee AoE DPS.

Its the kind of thief you WANT for your dungeon run because they can dish it and as well as take it.

Traits:

0/30/0/20/20
*Signets of power
*Signet Use
*Executioner

*Power of Inertia (this one is a free slot)
*Assassin’s Reward

*Thrill of the Crime (this one is a free slot)
*Trickster

Utility Skills:

*Signet of Malice
*Assassin’s Signet
*Signet of Shadows (this can be swapped to any Signet you want)
*Haste
*Dagger Storm

Equipment should focus on power and toughness primarily with secondary traits being vitality or precision. Personally, I’m running Emerald Orichalcum Earring(s), Ring(s) and Amulet of the Berserker and am currently working towards a mixed set of karma exotics that specialize in power and toughness (currently wearing some Valkyrie Emblazoned exotics and some of the collected karma gear…it looks really silly especially on my Sylvari)

The weapons ideally would be berserker exotics (I’m not even close to getting my Berserker’s Destroyer Pistol/Sword).

Runes can be anything that fits your play style. I’m continually debating with myself on superior divinity or superior infiltration.

Sigils should be Superior Sigil of Force.

Enough equipment talk xD

The general strategy is to roll up to your target or shadow step into them (rolling is better so you gain 2 stacks of might), use haste start spaming pistol whip. When initiative starts running low activate a signet of your choice or steal, continue your pistol whip spam. When haste is up use it and continue this loop. If you do it correctly you will not run out of initiative for at least a full minute.

As a secondary weapon set I suggest the Short Bow or P/D (since you have some condition damage).

The highlight of this build is the 48 second cooldown on haste, this means you spam it whenever you can. It is a broken kitten ability and makes you a healing machine of dps doom.

The tratis for the thief are really, really bad (mostly). There’s a few well done ones but most are as you’ve pointed out sub-par especially since they’re nerfed versions of other class traits.

Shinjo.6092:

I’ve been kicked before for a guardian. I was upset at first, but after watching guardians face tank champions, I figured I would have kicked me too!

The Thief can face-tank a champion too (S/P signet thief).

Yay someone that feels our pain.
We have to pray on noobs in order to be good.

I have, it’s not very good. For dungeons you need high survivability but you also need decent single target damage or you’re more of a burden then anything.

P/D gives you sustained bleeds but any decent group will already have that.
You’re better off going P/P and spaming Unload, Black power and Head Shot.

Head Shot alone is a god send in dungeons vs bosses.

Hide in Shadows for P/D is better then SoM because it allows you to sneak attack and stack multiple bleeds and gives you a much larger heal on demand. SoM is good for DB spam builds and builds that like dropping caltrops everywhere.

Only if your server has a queue and only if you intend on going back into Wv3.

Meh, I actually prefer to stay with the zerg so I went S/P. I’ll shadow step in, pop haste and PW 14k worth of health on multiple targets and follow up with a DS.

Works great in those close quarter castle hallways which is where I get most of my kills…plus I double as a battering ram with constant PWing the gates.

If I catch someone off guard I’ll burst them down so fast in 1v1 it makes their head spin.

Yeah, most of the thief problems are mechanical, not mathematical.
Fix the rendering issue, make steal queue like all other abilities so you can’t CnD THEN steal.

Everything else is a l2p issue.

Agreed on both fronts, the medium armors are all the same. Even the karma and dungeon armor is the same, just better looking variants.

sorrow.2364:

Are you serious?
You mean 2k with autoattack or 2k with unload?
I deal 5k+ damage with Unload without putting any point on Deathly Arts traitline and I can use it 3 times in a row. Total: 15k damage on a 900 range. If this is bad in your opinion, I don’t know what’s good for you.

2k on unload. If I crit 3k. If I switch to S/P I can Pistol Whip for 5k easily.

Power: 1735
Prec: 1643
Tough: 1272
Vit: 1239

Attack: 2663
Crit: 39%
Armor: 2197
Health: 14035

Ichishi.9613:

-_- please don’t compliment these kind of armors too much or devs will continue to think that when everything looks like that it is ok

Hahahaha, the helmet is a bit weird but I’d just hide it.

It looks sexy, I may need to get some CoF armor…

Ichishi.9613:

Babel you miss the point. People claim to have 2k tough and be hit for more than I am
8k backstabs on glass cannon target do not bother me even a single bit. If i wanted he would never even had a chance to land one.

I was not demonstrating the opness of backstab, i demonstrated the contradiction that exists on this forum.
PS. I am not backstab thief I was simply wearing my unsigiled daggers to prevent accidental killing of my opponent with my uberguns and also to demonstrate the ostats that thief was most likely to have

Ahhhhhh I see what you did there :p What armor is that?

I kind of support this, my Sylvari, while bad kitten looks goofy in some of the armor. I’d at the least like the ability to alter my physical appearance so I don’t look idiotic in Valkyrie armor.

Sure, make SM solo-able, EM though should remain party content.

Ichishi.9613:

I just went into wvw so see formyself. I patiently waited with my glass cannon build in a middle of open field for a thief to backstab me.
And now I am kinda disappointed in a good chunk of community on forums

You have less then 1000 toughness, less then 11000 health and are clearly running a BS thief yourself…of course you’re going to take 8k damage from BS…you’re spec’d as a glass cannon.

150…wow. I thought my 28 in a day was good…

Same, I rarely travel away from Orr now because its simply too expensive.
Plus we get double-punished on death, waypoint cost and damaged gear cost.

Waypoints need to not be based on level for cost but on distance and the cost should never be higher then 1 silver.

Arathor.5819:

BabelFish.7234:

This is the kind of stuff you talk with your guild about, not map chat or the forums.

Well, I never did mention this issue in map chat, I mentioned a suggestion. And I don’t have a guild.

You should find a guild. They’re great for helping you out, discussion, etc and they’re relatively friendly.

Too much to ask for the community imo. Not that GW2 has a bad community but I find that the more vocal ones are pretty passive-aggressive and angry. If they’re not shooting it down because its wow-like they’ll find another way to shoot it down.

This is the kind of stuff you talk with your guild about, not map chat or the forums.

I have full exotic accessories and have exotic valk gear with rare orrian pistols. You know how much damage unload does? 2k.

It’s pretty underwhelming.

Oh there’s synergy but it’s all very linear do this to do this to do this to do this. Deviate and die.

You’re right the thief is boring but it’s not bad at pve, I can solo champion mobs for god’s sake and the only time I have trouble is when I start ignoring creeps (because they all hook me as I run past, which it turn makes life hell because I now have 6 mobs spread out and beating on me).

Meh the thief can do well in Orr but whatever it can do other classes can do better.
I currently run a 80 Thief in Orr and have minimal issues until I get pulled by 3 different mobs in the space of 0.5 seconds.

Yeah ultimately quickness is the problem.
Single-wield love is definitely needed. That game seems to actually punish you for single-wielding. Torches I could see but shield thief doesn’t sit right. I guess it could work but conceptually thieves aren’t really defensive in any incarnation.

Xomic.5792:

Actually, I tend to dislike the idea of “unique” debuffs or conditions. It makes balancing much easier and easier for a player to understand if there’s only a limited number of debuffs or conditions.

I’d rather just see a stack of 25 bleeds turn into something like a greater bleed. IE upon reaching 25 bleeds the game removes them and replaces them with a single ‘greater bleed’ which has the same intensity as the bleeds it’s replacing but in a separate package allowing a second stack of bleeds to be generated.

That’s so simple its brilliant…+1

Honestly, S/P or P/D.

P/D and you infini-kite or S/P, get signet of malice, signet use, signets of power, executioner and faceroll while screaming I AM GOOD AT DPS xD seriously though S/P is really good at PvE.

To be fair Assassin’s Signet and HS deserved the nerfs. PW was a bad nerf, they should have nerfed haste instead.

I’d like to see a S/S weapon set. I’d like to see a rifle weapon set.

I’d like to see P/P get a buff

I’d like to see thieves with more options in general so we don’t have to rely on gimmicks.

DesertRose.2031:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/How-many-basic-viable-builds-do-thieves-have

So D/D, P/D.

Arguably S/P (although its been nerfed so bad its not really competitive anymore) and P/P which is basically S/P’s little brother who doesn’t quite measure up…even after the PW nerf.

Dungeons are going to require toughness, you cannot do them unless you can survive the insane amounts of damage the monsters do there.

PvP is very different, D/D backstab, Pistol Whip burst, that new S/D daze thingy that was just posted are, have been or look viable.

While Questing I’d honestly keep with P/D and get S/P as well. Signet of Malice+Pistol Whip keeps me alive in Orr so it should keep you alive while questing.

hakurface.2619:

The P/D bunker/condition build works just fine and holds its own against D/D Backstab crit builds. Holds well against 100 blades as well. Nothing like having a Warrior rage quit because he dropped bulls charge and 100 blades on you only to drop you to near half health and you wittle him down at range and end up winning the engagement.

And subsequently lose when any number of his buddies show up. P/D isn’t bad, not at all but it’s not competitive either unless its a 1v1 scenario where you can afford to infini-kite.

I dislike how when I log on there’s no one on GoM sometimes but BP is out en masse. To me the real issue is Anet has matched servers up against eachother who don’t have correlating time zones (or even remotely similar).

I mean I could deal with EU vs NA servers but NA vs Asian? really…that’s a huge time gap which basically means he action will rarely interact.

I’d suggest a system where EU can vs NA, EU or Asian/Oceanic, NA can vs NA, or EU, Asian/Oceanic can vs Asian/Oceanic or EU.

None of this our day=your night crap.

QFT, we’re forced into gimmick builds because we have no other options…anet keeps taking away any of our decent toys and not giving us anything in return. Backstab is pretty much the last thing thieves have to be competitive.

The agro is pretty messed up. Anet has said distance is a big factor but I’m not convinced. I’ve had mobs agro to me when I’m ranged and ignore me when I’m melee…and in the ranged instances I’m usually doing less damage then the melee instances.

Shadow’s Embrace-This is a really good idea because Thieves lack condition removal. The problem is that stealth only last 2-4 seconds. Needs some tweaking but the concept is excellent.

Infusion of Shadow-Another solid trait.

Cloaked in Shadow-Yet again, another good job.

Power Shots-I’m a bit biased on this one, I feel we’re forced into our second weapon being the SB and we have no choice about the harpoon so I have a problem with this trait, not because its bad but because its forced.

Hidden Thief-Good trait

Leeching Venoms-Venoms need to be justifiable but as a trait this is good.

Patience-As a concept this is good but at this point I feel like you’re telling the thief “you must use stealth or you’re terrible”…then you give us weapon sets like P/P with no stealth…

Shadow’s Rejuvenation-this I feel may actually be too strong. I’ve tried this in WvW and it made me incredibly hard to kill which mitigates the weakness of the thief that justifies its high burst damage.

Venomous Aura-This makes venoms good but the problem is you need to invest so much into making this viable it hurts. Buff venoms so they’re consistently viable on their own then this becomes worthy of investing 30 points to get.

Expeditious Dodger-I personally use this but feel that 2 seconds is a little low.

Feline Grace-Great trait

Fluid Strikes-Considering how hard it is to keep your endurance not full this is surprisingly useless (if you’re dodging you’re not attacking).

Descent of Shadows-This ability is not good. Falling damage…what are we supposed to do? drop off a cliff like Batman into our enemies? Please remove this and never speak of it again :p

Power of Inertia-duration of the might is a little low but good idea.

Vigorous Recovery-Duration of Vigor is so low its not worth it what so ever.

Assassin’s Retreat-Conflicts with Expeditious Dodger, which is a superior skill. This should be replaced.

Master Trapper-Traps need to be made viable, once they are this will be good.

Fleet Shadow-Good trait.

Fleet of Foot-Good trait

Pain Response-Good trait

Quick Recovery-Good trait

Assassin’s Reward-The heal on this is a little low, however its a solid concept.

Hard to Catch-Good concept but the unpredictability of where you shadow step can lead you into enemies. That needs to be fixed otherwise good trait.

Quick Pockets-Good trait, I don’t see this as being worthy of investing 30 points to get though.

Kleptomaniac-good trait

Preparedness-amazing trait

Lead Attacks-another amazing trait

Merciful Ambush-Would be better if ranged weapons didn’t exist. Needs a revamp to be more useful.

Instinctual Response-Good trait

Uncatchable-Great concept but the AoE is so low, the duration of the bleed and cripple is so tiny and the duration of the caltrops is so miniscule that this is single handedly the biggest tease in the thief trait tree. It desperately needs a buff.

Flanking Strikes-Good trait

Thrill of the Crime-Good trait

Long Reach-doesn’t synergize with the thief at all since steal is used to get in melee range.

Bountiful Theft-Good trait

Trickster-good trait (the tricks you have are amazing or even overpowered)

Initial Strike-Good trait (7% may be a little low)

Ricochet-This is not good at all. I don’t mean to be rude but the last thing a pistol thief needs is more agro and the pistol damage is so low it’s not even viable.

Hastened Replenishment-Good trait

Sleight of Hand-Good trait

Improvisation-Far too random to be of any real use. This needs to be revamped to refresh a random utility slot instead that way the player has at least minimal control over how useful this ability can be.

Quick Venoms-The concept of this could help venom builds however venoms themselves aren’t amazing making this trait somewhat useless bar a niche build. If you buff venoms this could be useful.

Dagger Training-basic but useful, again, good job.

Combined Training-5% of very, very specific abilities seems a little low but the concept is sound.

Panic Strike-Good trait, good job.

Residual Venom-This has potential to be good however venoms need to be worth investing in for this ability to be worth investing in over Panic Strike.

Keen Observer-Good idea, however the 5% increase is fairly low considering the thief, who is squishy by nature has to have over 90% health. Either buff the 5% or nerf the 90%. Something has to give.

Opportunist-20% on a 30-60%…not good. Numbers need some serious reworking.

First Strikes-Good job, good trait.

Furious Retaliation-These are the kind of traits which are good, because they have a reasonably long cooldown and activate when something is achieved that is realistic. Very good job.

Signets of Power-A little buggy (I’ve activated signets rapidly and only gained 5 stacks of might) but the concept itself is good.

Side Strike -Another good trait

Concealed Defeat-Building for failure isn’t good at all, this needs to be removed.

Pistol Mastery-Given the Pistols lack luster damage this may be better at a higher number but if you buff pistol skill damage this is a good trait.

Practiced Tolerance-Very good idea, however 5% is a little low and often translates into less then a single hit. Probably needs a buff.

Ankle Shots-Another percent on a percent trait, these aren’t very good. Needs to be changed to a % on attack.

ignet Use-Solid trait, good job.

Combo Critical Chance-Another job well done.

Critical Haste-Another % on a % and to boot the duration of the boon is 2 seconds…This needs some major reworking.

Executioner-Good trait

Hidden Killer-Good trait

Last Refuge-If Blinding Powder was a better ability this would be a good trait.

Meld with Shadows-Good trait

Hidden Assassin-Good trait

Master of Deception-Good trait

Slowed Pulse-This one is kind of silly, there’s no reason to ever take this trait.

Shadow Protector-Only synergizes with one ability, if per say, Black powder provided stealth to you and allies in its AoE this would be viable.

Because I don’t want to be the guy who said THIS SUCKS FIX IT and not give anything concrete to work with I’ll go through the traits and address them.

Serpent’s Touch-good trait, leave as is.

Lotus Poison -Works with Serpent’s Touch and with Lotus Strike, could be more useful but its viable enough.

Exposed Weakness-Reasonably viable, good job Anet.

Back Fighting-The only reason to ever trait this is if you’re building for constant failure. As a trait its self-defeating and needs to be replaced.

Corrosive Traps-If traps are reworked to be more viable this would be really good but as it sits traps are nigh-useless except for niche builds. This either needs to be scrapped or traps need to be buffed.

Mug-Good trait, it may even be a little overpowered.

Venomous Strength-Venoms are fairly weak, even in a venom-sharing build. The concept is good but it’s buffing something most people don’t use enough to validate this traits existence. Either replace this trait or buff venoms.

Potent Poison-This only benefits Dagger builds with the occasional steal. I recommend this extending Venom duration as well or replacing the trait.

Sundering Strikes-40% on a 30-60% just doesn’t seem very good to me. This should be 40% on attacks period.

I like the scythe more, would be epic to see a necromancer running around with that.

I’ve been noticing a very specific trend with the Thief.
Thief builds that want to be viable have to rely on gimmicky one-time bursts in order to do any good.

First we have the Pistol Whip burst and now we have the Backstab Build.

Personally, I don’t enjoy resorting to these gimmicky builds…going invisible and doing a very routine and mundane combo (pop venoms, signet, CnD+steal+Haste, backstab, stall with more stealth or swap to SB until I can do it again).

I don’t enjoy shadow stepping/stealing into my opponent and Haste+PWing my opponent, then le gasp rolling back and relying on the Short Bow until I can do it again.

This bring me to my point: What other options do we have as a Thief?
We have horrible survivability (bar dodging)
We have horrible DPS (we only have burst damage, which keeps getting nerfed)
Our range is the shortest range in the game

To remain competitive in PvP, Wv3 and to a lesser extent: PvE we have to rely on gimmicks or we just melt.

The Thief in general need some TLC, the trait trees are a mess (some of the traits are really good and work but most are really, really bad and can’t be used if we don’t want to die non-stop), the weapon skills are either gimmicky, lack any real synergy or have been nerfed (or will be nerfed) into a state of mediocrity.

So please, please, please if you decide to nerf the thief and one of the only viable things we have left look into revamping the thief trait and weapons. We need viability in order not to utilize these one-trick ponies.