Guild Wars 2

Casmurro.9046:

Bash.7291:

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

Yeah, he commented about that 50k WW that obal did with his guardian, he said that was possible because of an exploit, where you turn off your melee atack assist so you can enter in the mob’kittenbox and do that crazy damage, he used the same argument for the fiery gs against a wall.

……. Ok I watched his “anti-meta” build video. And I really have to question if he has EVER played any other MMO. Stacking in a corner to LoS and group mobs, yeah do that in other games. AoE DPS said mobs down, do that in other games. Skip mobs, when was the last time anyone ever did a raid in WoW that full cleared the ENTIRE instance by choice. As far as the hitbox thing, WvW and sPvP are pretty much unplayable without it turned off, since you will be stopping everytime you get near an enemy, let alone a zerg.

I really think he needs to figure out that just because he calls them “exploits” does not mean that is the case. It honestly feels like the old days of Diablo 2 when people would cry “HACKER” just because they didn’t like how things turned out and felt they were cheated when they weren’t.

Casmurro.9046:

@Tree
According to him those speedclear guilds can only achieve that because they exploit the game, using illegal tactics such as stacking, skipping, turning off the autotargeting and melee atack assist from the options menu.

I remember reading a comment from the player fadeaway, who made that spreadsheet with dps from different guardian builds, he said that with a clerics guardian he was more useful in pug groups in fotm that lacked skill or something, so maybe a tank guardian may be useful for pugging.

Illegal tactics such as turning off options that Anet gives you to use or not use? …. wha?

“After it takes a few blocks, then it explodes” …no… no it doesn’t work like that. You would THINK that someone that works at Anet that posts a guide would actually KNOW WHAT THE CLASS SKILLS DO.

Honestly, just give us what the “fake” patch notes were planning. But anyways,

A) make cleansing flames remove conditions on us. One of our sore spots is the lack of condition removal on dps builds, this alone will open up some options.

B) give us soft CC. Snare on symbol has been asked for since forever.

C) condition options, adding torment on crit to radiance and switching something like shattered aegis to adding a few bleed stacks would give us pretty much all we need along with the new sigil changes. (could get more bleeds, or poison, or aoe torment.

Bonus: fix the kitten ed trait lines, why do we have condition damage tied to radiance when there are only 2 very horrible condition traits that only apply 1 non stacking condition. Also, kindled zeal is a joke of a trait for conditions, as the amount of poer required to make it decent is wasted without any crit or crit damage. There is no hybrid possibility for us even with that trait.

Ignore english mistakes, typing on phone is horrible -.-

Thoth Divine.8642:

Why do some people assume that because someone complain about a certain build/mechanic it automatically means that they have trouble with it? I win most of my 1v1s, especially against AI builds because of these AoE you mentioned. It still doesn’t stop me from thinking they are cheesy and small-risk-high-rewards builds. It’s not because the class I play counters a certain build that I am not concerned by other classes having trouble with it…

Because generally most people that complain about a spec, are having issues against said spec. As far as guardian countering it, why wouldn’t something like MM counter another build/class? It is always going to happen in PvP no matter what game you play. There are always going to be counters, some soft some hard. So why are you complaining when you know there are classes that have no issue with the spec, despite personal opinion of the spec.

Thoth Divine.8642:

You guys can’t be serious. Sure there are some nice changes (focus/torch/writ of debilitation) but honestly those Spirit Weapon buffs are kittening kittened. As a sPvPer there is already way too much focus on AI and it needs to be toned DOWN, not buffed in every single possible way. It’s a ridiculously cheesy gameplay, where one doesn’t actually need to do anything to achieve great success.

As a guardian, Any class that relies on minions should honestly be easy. We have so many AoE skills you should just be able to blender them to death.

Binding blade > Pull > WW > Symbol > leap of faith > weapon swap > mace symbol > Mace #3

MM, Spirit rangers, the odd spirit weapon guardians, it is very rare to see many of their minions live through just that alone. And after that the build is very weak until cooldowns are up, and by that time all of those skills are off CD anyways. Guardians are honestly a very hard counter to anything minion just because we do have a very large amount of cleave on our weapons.

They have pretty much said the same thing every single time there has been a leak. Whether the notes are true 100% is one thing, but i guess we will see when the eventual patch comes out.

foofad.5162:

Bash.7291:

Harbinger.8637:

Torch is subpar in PvE because Cleansing Flame is a dps loss for the most part. However PvP/WvW is a different story. Zealot’s Flame hits extremely hard and fast, it’s great for spike damage. Cleansing Flame does decent damage, and now they are making it even more viable with the condition removing. Another thing people fail to realize is the short CDs torch has even untraited.

Something else to add, Cleansing flame is going to become even better against groups if that EM change is actually true. Hitting max targets (30) with even 33% crit is going to net around 10 might stacks off of just one skill, 50 if you have enough allies close by. while also causing damage and curing a massive amount of conditions (assuming allies are in the mix) I honestly see torch becoming a very decent weapon in WvW if these changes are true.

Ehhh it’s not quite that simple. It’s 3 hits per second max. That means you’re stacking at most 3 might per second at 100% crit. Cleansing Flame also lasts for ten seconds total, which is ten seconds that you can’t do anything else. Which means that at most, you’re going to put (with 0 boon duration) no more than 15 short duration Might stacks on your party since they only last five seconds.

That’s at 100% crit. At 50% crit, it’s only seven and a half stacks of Might up at any one time on average, with the potential to “accidentally” burst up to 15. And it’ll disappear almost as soon as the ability is finished channeling.

Now compare that to traited Hammer symbols. Even ignoring the hammer swings that’s a potential kittens per second every second, which means that with 100% critical rate you could max out at 25 stacks of might as long as there are 5 targets to hit. Even at half that rate you’re still looking at 12-13 stacks indefinitely. And because it isn’t channeled, you can do other things while the symbol is up and while you might delay your next rotation, it won’t be for long, and you’ll recover quickly.

Also: No cooldown, unlike Cleansing Flame.

So: It still does less damage than autoattacking, it still cures conditions very slowly even though it does cure on yourself, it won’t stack might with EM as quickly as anything else AOE, and it’s still a cone which is a personal gripe of mine.

So basically, once again, anything Cleansing Flame can do other skills can do better. Which is why Cleansing Flame still sucks.

Edit: Just kidding, I just remembered CF lasts five seconds, not ten. That nullifies a large portion of what I said, but the fact that it’s channeled and has a cooldown unlike symbols still makes it inferior IMO.

Eh, I still think it will become more viable than people give it credit for. Also keep in mind that it is an offhand. With something like mace you can easily lay down a symbol then cleansing flame while the symbol is up. Or with scepter you can throw down a smite and do the same. Also with symbols, they are stationary, and can be move out of, while cleansing flames is a bit harder as you can just chase your enemies with it. Either way, the change to EM and the extra condition removals are huge buffs to torch, I guess it will just be a matter of play style choice in the end though.

Harbinger.8637:

Torch is subpar in PvE because Cleansing Flame is a dps loss for the most part. However PvP/WvW is a different story. Zealot’s Flame hits extremely hard and fast, it’s great for spike damage. Cleansing Flame does decent damage, and now they are making it even more viable with the condition removing. Another thing people fail to realize is the short CDs torch has even untraited.

Something else to add, Cleansing flame is going to become even better against groups if that EM change is actually true. Hitting max targets (30) with even 33% crit is going to net around 10 might stacks off of just one skill, 50 if you have enough allies close by. while also causing damage and curing a massive amount of conditions (assuming allies are in the mix) I honestly see torch becoming a very decent weapon in WvW if these changes are true.

Really dont get the hate for torch #5 in this thread. Cone aoe damage, cond removal on allies and now cond removal on us. I cant see why it SHOULD do any more damage at that point considering you can clear that many conditions with it an still do decent damage to groups.

If these are true, its going to open up ALOT of builds for gaurdians. RHS + EM scepter is going to be very strong solo and group play. Torch is going to become a go to weapon for roaming with the added condition removal, and the lack that alot of dps guardians have. Zeal is also going to work really well now with other builds, as that snare is going to be great for scepter, mace, and hammer, even more so with larger longer symbols. i do however see the EM change being a bit overboard though, and will most likely get scaled back.

The only things that are going to stop the stomp, is actually stopping the animation, Stealthing the ally (stomp has no effect if the target is not visible) or the ally moving far enough away from the stomp (thief downed #2, or by some idiotic move of the enemy, a knockback on a downed ally) as mentioned before things like blind and aegis (if it can even be applied) will not stop it. You either have to down the enemy, knock them off, or move/stealth your ally.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

So I recently decided to try out this new armor and I have to admit it’s an interesting one. The thing that bugs me is the difference between ~300 Toughness from Knight’s Vs. 224 Healing Power from Zealot’s.

Of course as a Guardian you have many heals that will sustain you so overall the “small” increase in your heals adds up, but I’m still not sure if it’s worth giving up on 300 Toughness for extra 70ish Power + 224 Healing.

What do you guys think?

I think this is interesting. There is a build calculator on some website that can calculate “Effective Health”. I would say to go to there and input both sets. Since we are only comparing Toughness vs Healing Power between the two sets, I would say whichever one has the higher Effective Health would be the better choice. I dont have the link for that build calculator though.

However this depends on build(Healing Power if useless in builds without skills and traits that contain heals), and it also depends on what you are up against. Conditions completely bypass Toughness, while Poison reduces Healing by 33%.

That calc only uses the total DR you have from toughness and your health pool to calculate your effective health. Healing power is impossible to put into that equation, as healing come from so many sources and is up to the user on use. Only VoR could ever be put into the equation, and that would be if you do not use the active.

Someone in my guild shared this with us a few days ago. Though the history of leaked changes and skills has been decently accurate, I am hoping with all my hear that theses are fake. I do not see a change to spirit weapons that would ever make an elite worth it. Also, alot of the other skills just do not really make sense.

2.5/10 if trolling, 1/10 on the build if your being serious.

Blasino.3128:

Other thoughts (if not already mentioned) depending on the crit damage change:

Valor takes a hit. Already lacks group support and the loss of damage will make it less valuable.

Defensive traits become more valuable.

Straight percent damage increase traits become more valuable. One in particular: Zealous blade. Since overall players could do less damage the healing gets a small boost. Since crit damage takes a hit the straight damage increase is more valuable.

Symbolic exposure receives a slight unintended buff too. Vulnerability starts to become more valuable.

Zeal itself starts to look slightly better, since power gains relational value.

Also, poison gains value – 33% less heal.

And finally, some sigils will receive a nerf. Dev confirmed it on the forums (I wish I could find the post). So we could be looking into using Sigil of Doom, Sigil of Blood + Leeching, if its left alone. You can actually pre-set sigil of doom easily on an NPC before attacking a player. Get into combat swap weapons run from npc.

Would you please stop reading my mind regarding sigil combos?! But yeah, blood+leech + omnom pies could start to get really interesting. Just need to see what some of the rune changes are (rune of vampirisim) and could be the birth of some interesting leach builds. Only issue is that any other class will be able to use it too. :/

Yeah not directed at you aether. Posting from my phone so i just skipped quoting because its just a pain. Also yeah, horrible broken english on my part in places for the same reason.

I find it funny how this thread is labeled a discussion, but its more just a “here is my build, and anything you say against it is wrong” thread.

As far as that build calc is concerned, how about you actually look at it and learn to use it. Effective health is nothing more than your health pool along with damage reduction from armor. Healing power is IMPOSSIBLE to calculate into survivablity like that since alot of it is dependant on the actual player. Any gain you get is on your skills which need to be used. Say you dodge roll at full health to avoid an attack, in that case any healing power with selfless daring is not going to anything to effective health, since you didn’t heal at all. So please, give us the formula that shows that you can calculate that before ripping into a pretty nice build calculator.

Also, as red said above, the manual tab is there for a reason, you can pretty much fix everything from it, including wvw and sigil stacks, as well as if there are gear pieces missing you can manually enter them.

But please, show us this amazing calculator you have that adds in condition damage to effective power and healing power into effective health.

Why have there been 2-3 new full celestial builds per week in the forum lately. Every time it ends up turning into the same thing of everyone trying to explain how they are not optimal and 1-2 people refusing to listen and say they are the best thing since sliced bread…

That aside, I only have one comment on this thread.

Evalia.7103:

Binding Blade acts as a second condition, so you essentially have 2 of them, which isn’t that horrible as people make it seem.

…. Did you really just try to say that because we have binding blade we have 2 conditions, and thus are overreacting when it comes to conditions we can apply? You do realize it does half of the base damage compared to burning, is a HUGE part of our very limited CC (which also REMOVES the DoT when used), is VERY easy to evade, and has a long cool down even with 2h mastery. Just saying that alone really makes me question if you understand guardian mechanics at all, let alone stats for them.

Aeolus.3615:

I am speechless, that power that stats.
I imagine that video was made full of joke and irony.

I am assuming you haven’t seen any of his other videos… Either he is the most epic troll of all time, or something to be feared for the future of new guardians that don’t know better.

Yay, nothing new for us! /yawn

Anyways, there is ONE thing that I do see becoming a possibility for us, an semi-possible condition build. Now that sigils only share CDs with respect to name, it might actually be possible to base a build around them. Something like sigil of geomancy/sigil of doom + our innate burning. Also with the unknown Rune changes, it could mean even more possibilities. The issue with this though, is that no matter what, every other class is still going to have better access, since they can just do the same thing, plus have the extra conditions….

However, I think Might stacking is going to be the way now, Even more so for RHS builds as you will be able to stack sigil of battle, sigil of strength and EM for some pretty nice constant might stacks.

… Will you PLEASE for the love of all that is good about guardian stop posting this guy’s videos? Considering his obsession with celestial gear and how ‘FREAKIN AWESOME" it is for every walk of life, I really have to say he doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about. Even in that video, which is from July, He claims 5 guardians vs zerg, when it was more or less 5v6-8, which is not a zerg…

Are the people he fought actually that bad…. I mean, I know that a large amount of guardian defense is through complete mitigation, but really?

Not so much an auto targeting issue, as a having to make sure you clear targets before you do it. I have had it happen in WvW when I was using mobs to teleport with sword, switched to scepter and used retreat to move across the map, always end up throwing orbs at random mobs -.-

Also one other thing I forgot, the pull is also unblockable, so be very careful using shelter while it is on you, as it will put shelter on full cd if your pulled while channeling.

Indeed that is how it works, once the blade actually hits the target the only way to stop it is from stability. I think it works like this because you can already dodge the original attack, and since the actual pull comes from the debuff, it is something that can’t be dodged since it is already on the character.

Amins.3710:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Your regen is already perma’d at 50% boon duration. Doesnt make sense to have another source of regen that is potentially doing nothing.

Does if I’m not thinking about myself….

… What type of guardian ARE you…

CptAurellian.9537:

The torch is no offensive, but simply a useless offhand.

…. Torch used with the right set up is an amazing dps boost, and burst capabilities. While #5 is useless outside of group play, #4 is possibly one of the best offensive tools we have…

Silv.9207:

2) guardian is a defensive healing mage-warrior. It’s been created to obtain healing by buffs and skills, and to obtain a large number of defensive buffs. They don’t want to make you obtain fury so easy, not on the guardian.

I don’t really see this as completely true. While we can’t get it as easy as other classes, perma fury is very much possible in certain situations. Inner fire for example, pretty much gives you perma fury against anything that inflicts burning, which is almost every class in the game. Also with meditations granting fury, and also runes like Rune of the citadel, which can give you 50% up time alone, it is very much possible to gain fury as a guardian.

Perikittenor.1892:

Sounds good but there are some minor problem, one being that although i am speculating but it seems they do not want Guard to dual wield, or to have a offensive offhand. The second problem would be the cc itself, Guard do need soft cc but limiting it to one weapon in a specific slot(offhand). Would not resolve our main disadvantage.

That being said
Great ideas and it is always refreshing to see people brainstorm, so keep at it.

I have to disagree, as the weapons that have the most issues regarding mobility and lack of CC are indeed sword/mace, and an offhand with said mobility or CC would make them much more effective. GS already has a leap and a pull, and Hammer has an Immobilize and a Ward. Sword does have leap, but the issue is the slight delay on the skill which puts anything that moves faster than you out of range instantly.

As far as an off hand sword, I would love the idea, as I love dual wielding swords, but I would like to see the skills differently. I would like to see a symbol added, preferably something ground targeted, that could give Fury. The description could be something like “Throw a spiritual version off your offhand sword towards an enemy that shatters on impact, causing a symbol to spawn at the point of impact” Also I would love to see an AoE snare as well, maybe something that could play around with both the fire and frost aspects that guardians seem to have. “Channel heat from surrounding enemies into your blade inflicting chill.” then as a second press “Release the collected energy to burn nearby enemies and deal significant damage. Extends the CD of the skill by X times”

Honestly, asking guildies for advice generally is not a bad thing, but you also need to keep in mind who you are asking. Things like what class they main, and what game mode they play are going to be big factors, along with how they are personally regarding builds. Like me for instance, I generally try a large amount of different WvW builds, between roaming and group play. However, I rarely ever do dungeons, and only do a bit of hot join in sPvP.

Also there are going to be people that might swear by a single build being the best, when it isn’t (see video in OP) so my suggestion is try to find a build that you might be comfortable with for the game mode you play, and work from there. Customize it your own way, and do some research.

Asking on here isn’t a bad idea either, though it may lead to random fights due to min/maxing people, but you will get a good chunk of info and suggestions that you can always choose to follow or not follow.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR5flUgaDnGSOEf4ERli4dPMFa8jXPgYCbIA-TsAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxuAA

My current build. Not really bursty, not full bunker, a nice mix with alot of constant healing. GS attack heals, Symbol heals, Meditation heals, Regen from mace. And ALOT of AoE damage. Obviously best to fight on point with it.

Why can’t this thread just die! :/

I had an old build that was based around leaching, It was ok for roaming. Might go back and re-do it because it was not min/maxed very well. Also, Vamp runes in general are not very worth it, simply because we do not have a Low CD heal. However, If you can find a way to add a bit of healing power and 15 points into honor you can add pure of heart (heal on aegis break) and Selfless daring (heal on dodge) to give you some nice extra healing along with the leaching.

OK, I can’t take this seriously, 2.9k attack, using signet of mercy, AH in the roaming shout build…

lenniklarsson.5284:

Bash.7291:

lenniklarsson.5284:

Bash.7291:

you could honestly stand to move 5 out of radiance though if you wanted to, since you already have naturally high crit. It WILL hurt your burst from 1h sword, but considering you are not running 2x 1h for your weapons it doesn’t effect your GS at all.

After playing a few days with s+f/gs i can say that i only use the gs to blind with 3 and pull with 5. (ok, theres a lil might-gainer in the AA…)
So i think my main-dmg deals the sword with its AA.

Was just food for thought is all. Some guardians swear by having it, some don’t. I personally like it just because it gives that extra option of defense, which sadly I need since roaming in T1 is horrible in general -.-

Seems more defensive but yeah, definitely gonna test both builds
So if any1 have read this thread and now want to know with which gear i reached those stats, heres my final build for now:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAsdBmIseAwD6vqCx76BEVYDB-jgCBYfCikFBiKAMzsIasV1o1TERjKbYaXpW9SIyiuIa1CBAaKA-e

A little bit more Power, a little less crit-chance, but dont forget the +15% from RHS.
I took Full Berserker armor and weapons, because besides WvW i play alot PvE with full berserker gear. And getting new ascended jewelry with other stats is easier than to craft a whole new ascended armor and weapons.
So i just have to change my jewelry when im entering WvW
edit: dont forget to buy only 1 soldier ring and 1 valkyrie (and not 2 soldier rings), so that you can use just def-infusions. (same for earrings)

Honestly, I would dish out and focus on getting the crit damage off the armor and onto the trinkets. Most armor has a horrible conversion ratio (other than gloves/boots) for crit damage : actual stats. While trinkets have the best, mostly from what was the gem slot being 5:1.

For example:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAsdBmIseAwD6vqCx76BEVYDB-jgCBYfCikFBiKAM1sIaslQo1TERj6aYKXJV7SQ2iuIa1CBAaKA-e

You lose 13 armor, and gain 50 life and 12% crit damage. The main point obviously being the crit damage gain.

I don’t even…. In what world is 2.9k attack after sigil good?

lenniklarsson.5284:

Bash.7291:

you could honestly stand to move 5 out of radiance though if you wanted to, since you already have naturally high crit. It WILL hurt your burst from 1h sword, but considering you are not running 2x 1h for your weapons it doesn’t effect your GS at all.

After playing a few days with s+f/gs i can say that i only use the gs to blind with 3 and pull with 5. (ok, theres a lil might-gainer in the AA…)
So i think my main-dmg deals the sword with its AA.

Was just food for thought is all. Some guardians swear by having it, some don’t. I personally like it just because it gives that extra option of defense, which sadly I need since roaming in T1 is horrible in general -.-

Something I might suggest, Would be to try to find 5 points for Vigorous precision. The free 100% Vigor up time is really big for guardians, as it can help negate a large amount of damage. Most people opt to lose the 10 points in zeal for 5 in honor and 5 in virtues. you could honestly stand to move 5 out of radiance though if you wanted to, since you already have naturally high crit. It WILL hurt your burst from 1h sword, but considering you are not running 2x 1h for your weapons it doesn’t effect your GS at all.

What Amins said, runes of speed for a nice vit boost plus the passive 25% speed boost. Have not had any issues keeping up with people since i converted. For sigils go force for the free 5% damage on sword, i personally use fire sigils for my on crit, simple because they are AoE and can help in 1vX situations, or in small group play. Sigil of generosity is also nice but still expensive, but is fun when you transfer a full set of bleed stacks back on your target. But mostly it is nice just to have the added condition removal on a 10s CD.

Bah you and your healway knockoffs! :P Though with that style of build I guess I can see it edging out speed. I just cant get over running almost 20k health in my roaming damage build to see how travelers can be better.

Also, off topic: how did I not know you were on TC? Next time Sor/TC/BG face off you I and Akamon should duke it out in OS. :p

Yeah. Mace actually has some really nice burst hits from Auto attack, and #3’s counter. the added healing from AA is also nice. Honestly it really doesn’t need a change other than some soft CC as far as WvW is concerned. sPvP wise It is beyond awesome on a point were people need to stay near you, on the symbol, an within attack range.

foofad.5162:

Crit damage, and the duration bonuses are both better than you’re giving them credit for. Either is fine, but Travelers offers a lot more utility which translates into team benefits. Speed is more selfish.

True speed is more selfish, but I don’t think people should be running either in any type of group setting anyways, since you should have some type of easy swiftness in the party anyways. as far as crit damage it is 6%, now personally I don’t put as much value in crit damage as I used to, but even then 6% just doesn’t seem like enough to worry about. As far as boon duration goes, I don’t think many builds that run traveler’s are boon heavy, but I could be wrong in that.

Yes it is. Sorry should have specified,

After finally breaking down, and going for move speed through runes, I had to start wondering something. Why do most people prefer runes of the traveler over the runes of speed? The condition duration doesn’t do much for us, the boon duration isn’t enough to mean anything either, and the celestial stats on only 3 of the bonuses does not seem worth it to me over 140 vitality. Even more so when we are one of the lowest health classes in the game.

So my question is, if you had the gold (because i know a lot of people go for speed due to the cheaper option) which would you choose, and what benefits do you see for one or the other?

Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if they gave some of the underwater weapons some land capability, Trident could easily turn into a long range condition weapon for us. While spear could be turned into… well something nice? lol Either way, it would be alot easier than just making new weapons for characters I would think, and wouldn’t create any “well this weapon doesn’t belong on this class” simply because they use them already.

Well, to be fair glacial heart is alot different, mainly because even if it was in the radiance tree, it doesn’t do condition damage, so even though we have a “condition on crit” it still isn’t correct.

But anyways, there have been multiple suggestions in the past to fix glacial heart, personally I say 2 options, remove the 5 point symbol trait in zeal, move the symbol traits each down a tier, and put glacial heart at the 25 point trait. Make it cause a 1s chill duration on symbol pulse, or maybe just a 2s chill on symbol creation. The other option would be to keep it on crit, lower the duration to 2-3 seconds, 10-15s ICD, effect all weapons, and move it to either zeal or radiance.

Aza.2105:

Its ironic, guardian can achieve the highest condition damage out of all the classes. But they do not have a condition damage build that is viable.

Staff would make an AWESOME condition weapon in group fights, but yeah -.-

@ryo: It really doesn’t though, How many other healing skills in the game do you have to trait to bring up to par? MAYBE Signet for CDs but thats only 10 points, for litany it is 30. And as I said, litany has far more counters than pretty much any other heal in the game, just due to requiring us to do damage. Even taking traits into effect, HPS isn’t everything as you said. Every heal has an added effect other than the basic heal yourself part, the issue is that litany’s just doesn’t cut it due to being easily countered, and that isn’t just compared to shelter, that is in general.

ryokoalways.3450:

That’s a guardian’s perspective, in that shelter is the norm and interruptable heals are too weak. I think it needs to be mentioned that the norm for healing skills are 1 second casting time, and that while in theory that’s easily interruptable, in practice that is not the case. Otherwise no healing skills would be up for consideration unless it had less than 1/4 cast time (which would even leave out heals like healing spring and healing turret).

A lot of the acceptable heals at the moment such as Hide in Shadows, signet of malice, Ether Renewal, Ether Feast, Consume Conditions, Troll Ungunt, etc, all have “interruptable” casting time, but they are being used because in practice the player using the heal isn’t just a sitting duck waiting to be interrupted. Additionally, not everybody is running 10/30/0/0/30 thief.

As far as litany itself is concerned, as a stand alone heal when traited for meditation, it’s actually a respectable amount of heal on a short cd (24s) that offers additional heal through pressure for 6 seconds. Theorycrafting states that you should just not engage the guardian for 6 seconds, but I can guarantee that in practice you are not going to avoid fighting the guardian for 6 seconds. That will have a far worse result than fighting the guardian while trying to minize damage taken, which is what you do normally anyways.

If there is a complaint about the heal (other than it’s not shelter), it would be the same complaint for several of the new heals, in that they are not applicable unless you trait into that particular utility skill type (skelk, along with litany, are by far the worst offenders).

First off, shelter can be interrupted, and if it does, it goes on full cool down, with 0 healing. the only other heal I know of that does this is ether renewal, also possibly mirror, though I never tested that. Second, I never once said that the reason shelter is better than litany is because it can be interrupted, I said it is because it requires us to be on the target for 100% of the duration to even be worth it. For most guardians, that is almost impossible, as we lack soft CC to keep people near us. The issue is that there are SO MANY ways to counter litany, while most healing skills you don’t have to worry about immobilize, or cripple, or chill, or just flat out being kited.