Guild Wars 2

Ludus Rex.1562:

Arkimedes.8730:

If you are traited so that meditations heal, and if you are very aggressive after you use it, then the healing is actually on par with your other heals.

I think I see the problem here…

Also this, Why would someone invest in something so much just to make it ON PAR with the basic function of our other heals. Your wasting so much effort to make something broken work, when its alot easier and effective to just use something else.

ryokoalways.3450:

The issue isn’t really with Litany in my opinion. It has its benefits and drawbacks.

The issue is that shelter in comparison is just so much better.

Guardian isn’t the only profession with this issue either. Majority of the professions gravitate towards one heal. Only a couple of professions have multiple heals that all are very respectable (Thief being the only one where all heals are worth consider taking). Whether it’s because one heal is too good or alternate heals are too weak is different per profession.

I think the real issue is that its just not good enough even for offensive guardians, which is what this was geared for. Bunker’s obviously aren’t going to run it, since the damage isn’t there. But why would an offensive guardian run it when it can be countered so easily. I wouldn’t say shelter is too good, as I think it is just right as a heal for us, lower healing than signet, but the added bonus of blocking, which can still be countered by certain skills. Litany however is easily countered by any cc, or just by simply kiting away from the guard while you see it active. In PvE it is fine, because you don’t have to worry about your target moving, in anything PvP it is near useless.

Its because they don’t want the math showing that its not worth it. >.> More seriously, mostly because it was kind of shown that burning will almost never equal power regardless of how you do it, even with kindled zeal, even with perm wrath, the math just shows that without a constant supply of other conditions, it just doesn’t compare.

Well, the issue is that almost, if not all of the other professions with crit/condition damage together have a trait that cause bleeding on crit. warrior/necro/engineer all have it set up this way, while ranger has it but has crit damage instead, and mesmer is the same regarding illusions. We however, lack this trait, or lack pretty much any condition causing trait in radiance to really make it worth it. I have suggested before that Crit damage be moved to zeal, condition duration to radiance, and condition damage to valor, along with some condition traits moved in. it would make sense for our condition line to be our self sustain line, would give a huge boost to zeal offensively, and also would boost traits like radiant power, blind exposure, and would also stack better with the torch trait in radiance to have condition duration. But for some reason they put it on everyone’s power line, which generally has nothing to do with conditions, baring necros.

I just find it Ironic that they gave us a skill based off of something the class is generally horrible at being able to do… honestly it should just be called “Attempt to keep up while I am being kited!”

Should have changed it to Aegis breaks cause bleed stacks, would have made sense, since your breaking a magical shield, and maybe pieces of it would go flying and cut you… but yeah, would have opened up some more possibility for condition builds, instead of giving a “buff” to a talent that was rarely used, and will most likely never be used now.

Pretty much, you start pre-casting hammer 5, then right before it finishes you JI ontop of your target it and watch them run into it right off the bat. Assuming they have no stability at that point I will banish them into the wall, MB, then zealots embrace them before RoW comes down. Then weapon switch and use my next burst skill. At least that is how I personally used to play roaming hammer.

The only time you are going to run into enough people clumped together close enough to get that type of hit on it is going to be a hammer train, which honestly, you aren’t going to want your group that clumped up for anyways -.- also, keep in mind, that at max 5k damage per person hit, assuming that your all hitting the same 5 people, otherwise it could easily be spread out among many more than that, making it very easy to mitigate. Also 1k crits will most likely only be available to zerker, as messing around in the mists with stats close to what I run for group play was only getting me around 600, and that’s on targets without protection.

I am still unable to sell mine, Got it out of a chest pre-hotfix. Kind of annoyed missing out on some possible gold.

Also will not let me mail it either, only comes up with use or destroy.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

I’d go BearBow ranger

Already did! Woot!

Scoobaniec.9561:

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Um Warriors have the best dps, the best defensive moves, the most mobility, the best res…

Anet either had to buff all other classes, or nerf warriors.

Would you rather be slightly nerfed but still be the best at most things, or would you rather all other classes get massively buffed and get one-shot by new buffed skills?

Guard, ele has better dps than warrior, thats just 2 examples.

Most mobility? Theif has highter mobility ingame in one weapon set while warrior has to carry 2 sets tog et close.

The best defensive moved? Yeah cool stances on long cd’s compared to teleports, blinds and such with cd’s shorter than my …

Best res? I hope u dont speaking about downed state or else i will take a moment of silence.

Try harder

Guards are only more damage against a completely stationary target, which is PvE, not any PvP based mode. If you are really going to kitten about mobility, please try a guardian. I mean I WISH we could have snare immunity + massive amounts of un-targeted gap closers, or maybe a trait that gives us perm 25% movement speed, or maybe some skills that give swiftness that aren’t a horrible utility slot waste, or a weapon that is only good for group support/tagging. Or hell, maybe some CC so we could keep up with everyone else who has this crap.

As far as defensive moves go, you have physical damage immunity (3x between trait/endure pain/shield stance) condition immunity from zerker stance, Easy condition clearing due to cleansing Ire, stability from stance/signet, massive passive health regen without using any healing power. Also, highest health pool and heavy armor.

But please, keep telling us how you have nothing compared to other classes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Finally found the kitten post that I always refer to when talking about the condition cleansing issue

It is something that has been talked about in massive length on these forums for over a year. Its just getting worse and worse when warriors are naturally more mobile, along with snares, and honestly are getting better at condition cleansing than us. Which is funny, because originally condition cleansing was supposed to be the weak point of warriors…

Spaceman.1063:

Oh right, good old warriors. Have to share my own too then.

Happened yesterday in SPVP, after interrupting warrior’s stomp from downed, downing him in turn (still while downed), interrupting his next stomp after he got back up with vengeance (still while downed), and finally killing him after my chain-on-the-leg pet somehow managed to revive me, mere moments before getting stomped again.

Warrior’s name censored per compliance with forum rules.

Easy mode, no spirits… yeah…

kyubi.3620:

Well you know… this could be worse you could get nerfed dead like necro are or get one of your spec owned like thief and warrior have or just get a little of both like rangers do (poor sods are hardly making it trought). Instead of complaining about getting little buff you should be enjoying not getting any downsides. Ive never seen meditation guardians any better then now. I play all class in the game and check about every forum… all forum cept guardians and mesmer are complaining against a nerf this one complains about having not received enought.

Crying nerf doesn’t mean the class is in a bad place, just as us crying about getting nothing doesn’t mean it is either. The issue is that for over a year we have pretty much been in the same place. Meds got a buff, that’s great, does nothing in group play at all, hell doesn’t even do anything except for in WvW roaming, which still has issues as a build at times. Meanwhile, almost every class has gotten significant changes, that have lead to new builds.

Yeah, I wouldn’t count me in. I suck at farming gold and having 2 kids + christmas + saving up to buy a house next year means very very little spending money. Plus I would need to be able to transfer back to blackgate -.-

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Bash.7291:

Yeah, honestly I am looking to jump ship at this point. We still have no choices outside of AH/healway in group play. And once again, 95% of these changes did nothing…. Zealous blade still isn’t worth it, because who in their right minds uses healing power in a build with 20 zeal.

This was a big disappointment to me too. I was hoping for more, but you won’t see any decent #‘s unless you go heavy into healing power, and as you said, the builds that utilize Zeal can’t really use a heavy concentration of healing power.

Oh they can, but its pretty much wasted. >.<

Guardians are fine in Pve because mobs stand still, guardians are fine in sPvP because people have to stand in rings, which will be changing, and will honestly show some glaring flaws. Guardians in WvW are pretty much limited to one build in group play, and gimmick burst builds for roaming. But considering everyone plays that one build in group play, half the people don’t see any issues -.-

Ive only seen 2 anet guardian tags ever, 1 sat in LA, the other was yesterday in the mists, but he was wearing pretty basic armor, so doubt he had done much spvp at all.

earthian.1520:

when the team huddles up before an attack, you ’ll spam SoS? Really?

You have 23 pages of posts. It’s time to get into the game and play it. Those are facts!

Dude, calm down, you seem mad….

jcbroe.4329:

Terravos.4059:

jcbroe.4329:

Terravos.4059:

Durzlla.6295:

Broken, or a stealth buff? This wouldn’t be the first time they stealth buffed longbow…. I’m just assuming it’s like that…

They’re probably testing it out, Most likely it meant to have a ICD, or they were fooling around with the Greatsword trait, and got them mixed up, That could also be a cause for it.

From a code perspective (speculating here), since Eagle Eye and the Greatsword trait also shared the 5% increased damage, it could just mean that either one is inheriting from another, or they are both inheriting from some other skeleton code somewhere, or that they are both being created out of the same object, and somebody just copied and pasted and didn’t go through it with a fine tooth comb.

Not exactly sure how ANet has their code setup obviously, but it seems like the most likely cases.

Yea, reason I think its probably got to do with the Greatsword change is because its also 3 seconds of fury just like the Longbow change, the only thing that Longbow as different is it has no ICD.

I figured the same thing lol.

Worst part about it is that if it was unintended but remains live too long, and then the devs decide to remove it, it’s going to get very ugly very fast, because the longer it stays, the more attached people are going to get to it.

Especially if it is removed with no “official” response to the ranger community about how “they plan on improvements, but this case wasn’t a time or a method in which they intended for the improvement to be implemented, but rather a bug that wasn’t caught before the patch went live.”

It’s just about the last thing the ranger community needs, so hopefully it was either intended (doubtful, I know), or they use some good PR when they do take away our “nice things” haha.

Pretty much like the Guardian Pure of voice bug, that actually cleared 2 conditions instead of 1. ALOT of people got used to it, because it was like that for a couple months between balance patches. they finally fixed, and it hurt bad. >.<

Yeah, honestly I am looking to jump ship at this point. We still have no choices outside of AH/healway in group play. And once again, 95% of these changes did nothing, Shattered aegis is horrible and still not worth it, even in group setting. Had they given us the numbers like they said they would, we could have told them that. The 5% boost in the sword trait went through, despite ALOT of feedback on it, and even jon saying that it was a lackluster buff. SoS nerf/buff well… depends on gameplay so i call that one as even. Kindled zeal is still horrible, Zealous blade still isn’t worth it, because who in their right minds uses healing power in a build with 20 zeal. Let alone the fact that if you switch off GS you lose all healing from it. The heal, from everything I have heard, is horrible for any type of pvp as well. 1s cast for a crappy heal, then 5s to do damage, which at any point if you are CCed it was completely wasted. Oh and Also just to add some more stuff in, Perplexity still hasn’t been nerfed at all, so thieves and engineers can still rejoice!

Another who knows how many months before our next big lead up to nothing, I am looking so forward to it.

K U T M.4539:

Bash.7291:

Carpboy.7145:

Bash.7291:

Something I have seen missing ALOT in these builds is condition removal. Even more so with the newer thief meta of P/D plex, How do any of these builds handle condition builds at all…

Smite condition on a 16 sec CD, and CoP on a 48 sec cd, combined with a 2k heal every time you use them. Dont bash it if you haven’t tried it

…. LOL how cute. 1 condition cleanse every 16 seconds, and a condition wipe every 48 does not deal with a condition build. Also, if you bothered to look at my post history at all, I am not new to this profession. I have posted several roaming builds in the past, and tried ALOT of things that most people haven’t. If you think I haven’t tried the cookie cutter roaming builds your sadly mistaken.

Lyssa runes. CoP. Smite Condition. Traited virtue. Focus 4.

Guard has condi removal easy.

I never said that guardians don’t have ways to remove conditions, I said that 2 condition removers are not going to be enough against the current condition builds. I am starting to remember why I stopped posting in these forums for a while when people can’t seem to actually read what you type.

Carpboy.7145:

Bash.7291:

Something I have seen missing ALOT in these builds is condition removal. Even more so with the newer thief meta of P/D plex, How do any of these builds handle condition builds at all…

Smite condition on a 16 sec CD, and CoP on a 48 sec cd, combined with a 2k heal every time you use them. Dont bash it if you haven’t tried it

…. LOL how cute. 1 condition cleanse every 16 seconds, and a condition wipe every 48 does not deal with a condition build. Also, if you bothered to look at my post history at all, I am not new to this profession. I have posted several roaming builds in the past, and tried ALOT of things that most people haven’t. If you think I haven’t tried the cookie cutter roaming builds your sadly mistaken.

Something I have seen missing ALOT in these builds is condition removal. Even more so with the newer thief meta of P/D plex, How do any of these builds handle condition builds at all…

I originally had a nice rant defending my build here, but honestly this isn’t the place for it. All I am going to say is if you didn’t try it don’t bash it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRArd5PlUg67WFSLkiIXgNjAiwqCxD7BGhfHB-jEzAY/khtCEaL0EEEySgoChO7psmAFErsFRjVvgpUJiq9GFRrWKglUGB-w

This is my current Roaming/dueling spec. It is a bit more hybrid based, and better at dealing with more annoying condition specs due to dual condition shout removal, and food, If you know you are about to fight something that isn’t a condition based build you can always switch food for power/per of tough/perc food. Also You can switch out hold the line at any point for either signet of judgement for the passive defense/active weakness. Or also retreat if you need to get around the field a bit faster. also, you can switch torch/focus to match either scepter/mace depending on how you want to play, as torch does work with the ranged abilities of scepter. I use it with mace simply because I like to precast torch #4 when someone is about to get into range so i can get the 20% extra damage bonus for mace #3, which can hit like a truck.

Also just a note, none of the gear in that build is ascended, I am sure a better stat layout can be made by mixing/matching the right pieces, but I always find it better to show builds with exotics because they are easily available to everyone.

TheGuy.3568:

I have wondered this for a while now. It just doesn’t seem to make sense. If we are an attrition class that is supposed to force an enemy into combat then why don’t we have the soft CC to keep an enemy snared and from running?

Because according to A-net guardians are apparently the Uber-balanced class of the game, and any changes might disrupt the force…

Seriously though, it’s been asked ALOT. We have never been given a reason.

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Harbinger.8637:

From what I’ve seen of the livestream, it can be a very powerful heal if used right. Only problem is it’s easily countered. Any type of blind or block, will ruin it. Also if you get CC or anything like that. However I can’t wait to try it out. I like skills that you have to play smart with instead of just spamming everything.

I am still curious to see what the healing power ratio will be, and if healing power effects the 20% at all. Also, i can see scepter/torch being pretty useful with it as it allows you to still get some hits while snared/immobilized.

Nope it shouldn’t. The 20% is based upon the damage you do. So the more damage you do the bigger the heal, the smaller the damage the lower the heal. So the new heal won’t benefit support or tank guardians at all.

Oh I hope it doesn’t. I only ask because I run a hybrid dueling/roaming spec and am just curious if my healing power is still only going to be good for regen/dodge rolls :P

Harbinger.8637:

From what I’ve seen of the livestream, it can be a very powerful heal if used right. Only problem is it’s easily countered. Any type of blind or block, will ruin it. Also if you get CC or anything like that. However I can’t wait to try it out. I like skills that you have to play smart with instead of just spamming everything.

I am still curious to see what the healing power ratio will be, and if healing power effects the 20% at all. Also, i can see scepter/torch being pretty useful with it as it allows you to still get some hits while snared/immobilized.

Aza.2105:

Ah so Bash was right, it does have a cast time!

Wasn’t me that said it lol.

Pay my way over and Ill come fight for a week! :P

Aza.2105:

Well Zeal already has its niche, its spirit weapons. Unfortunately spirit weapons are bad.

I would agree, if it didn’t take 30 points in other trait lines to actually bring spirit weapons up to full speed, which still sucks.

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

Not really, meditations are the best thing about it lol.

extra group toughness, Toughness to crit, mace damage/healing power, burn on block, AH, Purity. There are still plenty of decent traits to choose from… I would much rather our zeal line be usable…

username.4932:

You will get killed before doing any damage in zerg fight, it is sometimes difficult to stand with both shelter and renewed focus in full PVT so shelter will still be mandatory for zerg fight.

The only skill to counter zerg burst is shelter. This skill is fine as long as you can stand enough to benefit from it.

With a possible 5k instant base, boosted up to 7k with MF, I really don’t see it being an issue. If your standing too long in the kill zone your screwed anyways. Also keep in mind, that damage → healing wont be the only thing ticking. Dodge heals, resolve ticks, regen ticks. I think your going to be able to heal through alot more than you realize.

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

username.4932:

Boosting dps solo build with this new skill sounds really weird to me. So it will be great for spvp and useless in wvw zerg meta where shelter is and will remain the way to go.

I feel something is wrong with guardian direction, it would have been more coherent to have shout instead.

I highly doubt it will be useless in zergs. Considering it scales off damage done, and if your smashing 5 people with hammer/GS your going to get alot back. (I hope) I am glad they didn’t go shout, as way too many guards run shouts as it is.

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

Amins.3710:

Arken.3725:

That doesn’t seem like it would go with the Meditation style of play that only affects the Guardian.

Merciful Intervention.

Nobody remembers the kitten child…

From what I saw somewhere (can’t remember where, but it was official) Was that you do have to buy the skill to unlock in both sPvP and PvE. once you unlock it its done for both though.

If it is real, I am curious to see if it double dips in terms of healing. Obviously the second part scales with damage done, but does it also scale with healing power. If so It could make some very interesting Hybrid builds.

Ludus Rex.1562:

Don’t all these proposed heals look to good to be true? A heal specifically for DPS guardians which can be modified by all meditation traits to heal for more, have a reduced cooldown, and grant fury? Yeah, I wish. Sounds like we’re being trolled though.

Signet of resolve?

Hmm, That meditation heal looks interesting, hopefully the CD is too horrible like everything else we have. If those heals are the actual heals, I am kind of liking what I see though, Seems to be alot more skill based, as several seem to have certain requirements. Guardian needs to deal damage, warrior needs to take damage, Necro needs to have damage on the target, and engineer sounding like an all or nothing. Sounds like more classes are getting heals like shelter, where it is best to use it at the right time instead of just when your health is low.

For Dueling/Roaming I tend to use a Hybrid build at the moment.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|b.1g.h2.f.1k.h17.0.0.0|1.1k.h17.0.0.0|1n.7x.1c.7x.1n.7x.1c.7x.1n.7x.1c.7x|1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1k.67.1c.67|a2.p47.0.u28b.5|16.1|w.18.19.16.1i|e

Scepter is a must for roaming/dueling, as anything that can kite you is going to eat you alive without it. Use it like it is a melee weapon, just with an extra long range, that way the shots don’t get easily avoided. Food/utilities can be switched out depending on what you are fighting. I tend to keep decent condition removal up as a base since those are the specs that can do the most damage to us. If your going to be fighting something more physical than switch in Signet of judgement for Hold the line for the passive 10% damage reduction, and a nice stunbreak/weakness. Also switch your food off condition duration, I either use Power/perc food, or Omnomberry pie for the leach/perc.

The only things I have had issues with with this build are those stupid 5 condition/kite thieves, and a pretty good mesmer. The thieves you actually need to try to kite some, as their rotation depends on getting close to apply torment stacks/cloak and dagger. But honestly they are very tough to deal with IMO. With Mesmers you will want to switch out the scepter for a GS so you can AoE clones before you get shattered, also the clones have the annoying tendency to block your scepter shots.

WTB consecration Elite before heal, Anything that AoE heals from the healing skill is either stupid OP or stupid UP. One will amount to us getting nerfed to make up for it, the other gives us another healing breeze -.-

Mordecai.6318:

lol @ the BG zerg camping the JP. Congrats on losing every Xv1 and 1v1 against me today. Is there anything BG is actually good at? It certainly isn’t combat.

Because it is so hard to kill someone with 5 condition, kite, 5 condition, kite rotation right?

SmoothHussler.6387:

Why would you dodge cancel an invul skill?

Generally on accident, but also dodging a split second too early would ruin the virtue refresh. This could easily happen in a case where your stuck in heavy AoE with renewed focus channeling and your not going to survive for very long after the invuln, and dodging is the only option.) I’m not saying poor playing deserves a helping hand by any mean, but I can’t think of any other elite acts this way. (As in, one of the primary effects is completely negated)

JonPeters.5630:

Virtues are not balanced for PvE vs PvP vs WvW they are balanced for combat which is tuned for generally 1-5 combatants. Whethe or not they are effective in a given encounter depends on that encounter. Sometimes they are more useful as passive abilities and sometimes they are more useful as actives. Finally, they are not balanced against other skills specifically, they are balanced as the class mechanic of the Guardian profession which is an effective profession in nearly all if not all content.

Honestly, that sounds like a “your class is balanced, move along” answer. That aside, I can understand it, when there are classes like ranger’s who have the most broken of class mechanics in terms to almost all game play. However, there are severe issues with alot of the logic regarding the answer, that other people in this thread have brought up.

Virtue of Justice: We lack a condition build, making it so pretty much anyone else that can apply burning, is going to do it 10x better than ours. This makes things like Supreme Justice, and permeating wrath almost completely useless in any type of group setting. That leaves Justice is blind, Renewed justice, and Inspired virtue, with also the he boosts from radiant power, and Fiery wrath. However, in a group setting, neither of those should be an issue, leaving the first 3. Justice is blind/renewed justice is great for PvE, since mobs die fast and often. In sPvP and WvW. they are kind of lack luster, due to the fast number of attacks (thus quickly removing blind) and the fact that by the time you start getting multiple kills, odds are the group you are fighting is already losing. Maybe if it activated on down instead of death, it would be alot more useful (but most likely broken)

Virtue of resolve: Even with massive amounts of Healing power and Absolute resolution, the heal is still pretty lack luster. at 1k healing power, with absolute resolution you are at 180 Healing per second. A Warrior who puts 20 points into Defense (the same amount of points required for absolute resolution) at 1k healing power gets 170 healing per second at 3 bars of adrenaline, and also can cleanse 3 conditions on burst skill use with 3 bars. However, after they use the burst skill, they don’t lose all the healing, and burst skills are also on a much shorter cooldown. Yet they somehow VoR is still used as a reason to give guardians the lowest health pool, compared to warriors who have the highest. Along with the clear issues in mobility and snares.

Virtue of courage: Holy hell cool down batman! 90… freaking…. seconds. For a skill that blocks a single attack? The ONLY saving grace of this virtue at the moment, is Indomitable Courage, just for the extra stability. Honestly this skill should have charges, and not a refresh over duration effect. since the whole point of blocking with aegis is supposed to be skill, not “Oh hey its been 30 seconds since the fight started, and I haven’t used courage yet lets hope it blocks something big” Unless the new shattered aegis change does a ton of damage, or they change the healing on pure of heart, (since the VoC passive is always wasted on first hit, and completely uncontrollable for any passive activation) There really is no need for this skill to act the way it currently does, as alot of it just seems like a massive waste.

All in all, while there may be few ok to good options for each virtue, mainly Inspired virtue, our class mechanic is very far from OK, and the fact that it is the cause for us being limited on health is rather disappointing. It honestly causes alot more issues, as it becomes an excuse to force us into more tanky builds, as we have to make up for our “superior defenses” becoming more and more lackluster compared to other classes who keep getting large survivability buffs, despite already having a much larger health pool.

akamon.2769:

doode, Bash, you. need. to. get. Guard. stacks. DO IT. NOW.

also, did you remember if they had vuln stacks, Moleless? that’s what i was thinking, and might stacks on yourself? was it in a group fight?

regardless, still pretty awesome lol.

I am only rank like 75 or something, wouldn’t even have enough even if I hadn’t spent all my points already (which I did to help with the guild group nights.)

Oh for the love of… The reason people complain about a 1v1 being ruined, is generally because it was a pretty good fight, and someone jumping in and ruining it really kills the fun of it. Yes WvW was made with the intent of getting groups of people together to smash into other groups of people and into buildings but not everyone chooses to play that way. You can also say “go to sPvP if you want to duel” but they are two completely different beasts, and I know alot of people like myself want the higher level of customization that WvW offers for PvP instead of sPvP.

Honestly though, I really do not get why you are complaining about 1v1s and taking up spots in queues, considering that you are also fighting someone who is taking up a spot on the enemy server. And also isn’t this whole freaking topic pointless now that we have the arena of awesomeness?