Guild Wars 2

sophiewhite.3149:

Farzo.8410:

sophiewhite.3149:

go to your graphics options and turn the character models at the bottom to low on both settings there.

Farzo.8410:

I want to be play the game on max settings, because I am able to. I don’t want to lower the graphics just because some players want to make the most obnoxious looking characters ever. I rather have an option that remove objects—backpacks in this case—that have started to destroy the awesome and beautiful appearance of the rest of the game.

Backpacks and flashier armours and effects were finer back in the older days (except for the humongous spell effects that were going on in combat) but now flash armours, visual infusions and obnoxiously big backpacks in form of wings have appeared far too much, and just destroys the general feeling of the game world.

then thats your problem. not anyone elses.

But it doesn’t hurt you if they put the option in I know a lot of people that hate all of the particle effects in game, I run standard models for everything in PvP since I hate seeing the clutter from armors and legendary weapons on top of the skills being spammed, why do we have to also turn down our graphics because someone else has Ghostly Infusions/Legendary weapons/ Annoying back pieces and all the particle effects from the massive amount of Aoe Skills.

If they gave sliders for those specific things it would not impact you in the slightest, they could have separate sliders for party member/ enemies, separate sliders for your own particles and everyone else on skills and the same for weapons/ armor. Again it wouldn’t impact you, and we wouldn’t have to put up with your choices of having any of those annoying effects

With some of the suggestions I have seen across the forums I could see someone asking for this, I did in sarcasm on another thread, that was a good week though really stuck it to the Mesmers.

I was thinking Mace Shield, I don’t have issues with double Melee, I thought of Using LB as well.

I have never really like Traveller runes, I didn’t think Menders would do well with this build so went with adding the extra vitality to cushion with the exuberance runes while not losing too much on damage and it provides a slight healing boost.

I did think to swap Contemplation of Purity for Purging Flames, or Smite Conditions.

I can give the Travellers a try.

Ohoni.6057:

Saying fractals are closer to PvP bahahaha funniest thing I have heard out of your mouth in a while…

and yet your laughter doesn’t make it untrue. Fractals and PvP are both 5-man content, instanced, rewarding higher levels of skill over simple perseverance . Open world content is 1-150 player, drop-in/drop-out, and typically has a lower floor on player skill. No matter how you slice it, Fractals has more in common with sPvP than it does with most PvE content. I would bet you that a larger percentage of serious Fractal runners also enjoy PvP than among those that don’t Fractal much.

And again there should always be unique rewards for all content, just because you don’t like doesn’t mean it has to change, it provides and incentive for others to try that content,

I believe you’ve heard my response on that one plenty of times. A reward like the Ascension is not an “incentive to try sPvP,” it’s “incentive to spend the better part of a year doing PvP whether you enjoy it or not.” Incentive to try new things should be short and sweet, RESPECTING your choice to not enjoy that content once you’ve tried it. Green Eggs and Ham did not end with the guy saying "nope, turns out I don’t like green eggs and ham, and Sam I Am forcefeeding it to him anyway for the next year.

as well as allowing other players to show what they have done to get those items,

and again, so long as a player might reasonably want that item without caring in the slightest about showing off what he did to achieve it, that is a poorly designed reward. Items designed to show off accomplishment should have ZERO intrinsic value to anyone that has not achieved that accomplishment, or at least cares that someone else has.

eeing as Pve has the majority of all skins in game, you just have a selfish gimme attitude, and don’t want to have to do the prerequisites since you complain about unique rewards.

Again, it has nothing to do with quantity. Since cosmetics are subjective, PvE could have exclusive access to all the skins in the game save one, and if a player ONLY cared about that item, he would be perfectly justified in complaining about that, because the other items are irrelevant to him.

Since you can’t seem to understand that an exclusive skin would actually matter to someone (while vehemently defending exclusive access to that skin for some reason), let’s use another example. There are dozens of stat combos in the game. Let’s say that JUST one of them, the Berserker stat combo, were ONLY available as a reward for WvW achievements that would take months to complete. Would you be satisfied with that? After all, you could get any other stats out there, ONLY that one combo would be locked behind specific content, surely that would be acceptable to you, right?

Now if you’re tempting to argue “no, stats are different, they matter more,” remember that this is entirely your subjective opinion, and that other people feel the same way about skins. Try to actually see it from their perspective and not just dismiss it as something that isn’t true for yourself.

The only thing I can say is that Anets implementation of getting the wings was bad, they could have made it more prestigious by getting rid of safety pips or added in a better achievement track for it or made it a special reward track mixed with achievements.

And my position remains that I would have no problem with them setting up exactly that sort of challenge, so that ONLY really good PvPers could get it, but only if the final reward is something that nobody outside PvP would have any use for. If it can only be earned by being really good at PvP, then it can’t be something that people who don’t care about being really good at PvP would ever want.

Think of it like an award trophy. Nobody would want a big trophy taking up space unless they valued the accomplishment needed to win it, while those who would value that accomplishment value it highly. That’s what high-end PvP should offer as a reward, a trophy that PvPers would be greatly impressed by, but not something that PvEers would ever want.

Just because Fractals don’t meet Your definition of Pve doesn’t make them not Pve it is by definition exactly PvE players fighting Game controlled AI/ mechanics.

Just because you want something does it justify you and getting in anyway you prescribe.

Why can’t trophies/rewards I.e special armor/weapons be one and the same? Because you would be locked out of getting them, and rewards are there to incentivize people to play all game modes to try them out to see if they like them.

You just seem to think everything should be obtainable in open world Pve.

And since the back piece doesn’t provide any different stats than can be obtainable in open world Pve and Fractals it is just that a skin that shows the effort put into PvP. So it doesn’t matter that it was locked behind PvP, you just think there is a problem.

And yes if there was a stat I wanted behind a certain gamemode I would do that, but I do every intent the game offers till I get what I want from it without complaint. Wanted vipers gear I raised and did bloodstone fen, I wanted the triumphant armor as soon as it was available I did WvW and got it, I wanted Fractal Specific items I did Fractals and got them. Do I particularly like those contents no I spend majority of my time in PvP and WvW respectively, I raid and do fractals with guild ones to help them out.

I was thinking of trying this build in PvP quickly thrown together for Unranked what do you guys think any adjustments?
Edit updated link

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdRn8cClDhdDBWdC8Dhl4BT+/FAPgVBgHQ9yaDcveUA-TpBFABEcCACe/hGOCAC8AAEvMAAHCAA

Ohoni.6057:

Sorry you saying fractals aren’t Pve discredits everything you say, it definitely isn’t PvP so the only other thing it can be is Pve,

It isn’t PvP, but it’s got nothing to do with general PvE content either. It’s instanced small group content, which has more to do with PvP than it does with open world PvE.

Also again you are making baseless claims that most players only play one gamemode every guild I have been in everyone does Pve/PvP/ WvW and enjoy it. It is rare to find people that only play one game mode exclusively.

Confirmation bias. Every group you have self-selected into has similar interests to you. This should come as no shock.

You said it yourself that PVP players should not get unique items that can be used in any other game mode, but wait Pve players can use anything they get in any game mode, and they have exclusive access to all but 1 Legendary Item. Interesting.

and I have said that PvE players should not get unique items either, don’t leave that bit out, it makes it sound like I’m favoring PvE over PvP, when all I want is for each group to be able to function 100% independently.

You complaining about items being unique and want them to be attainable in any fashion you deem “satisfactory” is you complaining about the effort involved

Nope.

Saying fractals are closer to PvP bahahaha funniest thing I have heard out of your mouth in a while…

And again there should always be unique rewards for all content, just because you don’t like doesn’t mean it has to change, it provides and incentive for others to try that content, as well as allowing other players to show what they have done to get those items, seeing as Pve has the majority of all skins in game, you just have a selfish gimme attitude, and don’t want to have to do the prerequisites since you complain about unique rewards.

Also I was making perfectly unfounded claims like you were about players willingness/unwillingness to play different gamemodes since you like to make up numbers about what players play and want.

The only thing I can say is that Anets implementation of getting the wings was bad, they could have made it more prestigious by getting rid of safety pips or added in a better achievement track for it or made it a special reward track mixed with achievements.

Koru.8574:

i wait 30….y is urs soo short

Started late like in last week in Sapphure, since i have everything from the last few seasons I have no reason to grind out wins working up T5 Ruby now do about 3-5 matches a day……… I am in no rush to

2- 5 minutes isn’t along time for queues ……..

I can’t find it may have been mistaken so until I find the link again I shall remove.

Thief is at a huge Disadvantage, Guard was he hard counter before DH was a thing, DH compounded, staff can help but still has a lot of flaws against DH the best way is with P/P since it has the ability to burst through their Heals and defenses, while making sure you are not standing in their traps/Symbols. Like I stated in that thread

Ohoni.6057:

People who don’t like Pve should not have to play Pve just because they want to have a certain weapon or amor skin. They should have options.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaas. Definitely so.

Since pve players have their own Legendary wings the Ascenesion is just a skin at that point for PvP players.

Again though, “PvE players” don’t have a backpiece, Fractal players do, and less people like Fractals than like PvP. The best PvEers have is the Bloodstone backpiece. And “just a skin” is never an argument. “Just a skin” is all.

There is no mechanical or stat advantage provided by it that you don’t have with ad Infinitum

And I wouldn’t care if there were. If you could get the Ascension skin elsewhere, but only PvP could aware a backpiece with +1% to all it’s stats, go for it, I wouldn’t even bother for it. The skin is all. And not even the backpiece skin, which is kinda ugly, but just the glider skin.

this is just another case of you wanting something you don’t want to work for.

You keep repeating this but it never makes it true. I am willing to work for it. In fact, I’m one pip away from earning it (which means it’ll likely take another week of up and downs)[edit:no, I just completed it between typing on this. So, yay.], and would have been just as willing, and much much happier to put that same time and effort into some other activity. This have never had anything to do with effort.

since most players don’t just do 1 game mode and 1 game mode only these items being used in all gamemode works perfectly and doesn’t make people want to quit since they can jump over to another game mode with the gear they got in PvP.

I think most players do play one game mode, or at least WANT to play one game mode and only play the others when forced to (which is hard to tract statistically). But event hat aside, if you can earn all awards in all modes, then if you enjoy all three then that’s great, because you can play whichever appeals to you, and still progress towards what you want.

Sorry you saying fractals aren’t Pve discredits everything you say, it definitely isn’t PvP so the only other thing it can be is Pve, and yes the Ascension is just a skin since you get the same functionality from Fractals which are very popular I am able to hop into LFG and find a group whenever I log on, especially since they provide some of the best rewards in game.

Also again you are making baseless claims that most players only play one gamemode every guild I have been in everyone does Pve/PvP/ WvW and enjoy it. It is rare to find people that only play one game mode exclusively.

You said it yourself that PVP players should not get unique items that can be used in any other game mode, but wait Pve players can use anything they get in any game mode, and they have exclusive access to all but 1 Legendary Item. Interesting.

Unique rewards for gamemodes have always been there and that’s perfectly fine and they should be allowed in all game modes since it show what you have accomplished.

You complaining about items being unique and want them to be attainable in any fashion you deem “satisfactory” is you complaining about the effort involved this is seen with all the threads about legendary armor you have posted in. Really I hope they had more game mode specific rewards in and more legendary back pieces that are unique to each gamemode albeit no wings I want something more original.

FYI they started separating balance so rejoice

No Corruptionmancers kill Symbolic DHs, and Revs also Engies.

Not as much as it used to be, Minionmancer still wrecks most Thieves, granted most thieves are potatoes.

Remove/Limit the amount of Aoe Damage power and Condi, Aoe Cc, and The amount of Boons. Remove the Passive defenses.

The damage can be tuned down on all Aoe skills, any Aoe Cc should have Large Cooldowns, boons have harder access to the amount of stacks, same with Condi application.

Play any class but Thief, you are anti- Thief.

Because they used the legacy and nostalgia of Guild Wars and Smashed it to smithereens

Best thing to do at this point is to reduce all the Aoe damage, Aoe Conditions and Aoe CC being thrown around as well as toning down the amount of boons, then we would be in a better game state the power creep needs to be reduced then all game modes would be healthier and balance would be easier to maintain.

tobascodagama.2961:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

While we are asking for ridiculous things from Gw2s past can Thieves get crit on Mug because that was so….. Interesting and provided complex gameplay…..

There actually is a Thief forum thread on that topic, as well. XD

Yeah my post is dripping with sarcasm though, there are some things that should stay dead in Gw2s past. Like Mug Crits and Clone Death

I miss the old days when you could religious on a different character and spawn outside the match, those were the days.

While we are asking for ridiculous things from Gw2s past can Thieves get crit on Mug because that was so….. Interesting and provided complex gameplay…..

Ohoni.6057:

Pvers already had that with the Ad Infinitum the only difference is the skin. No pve player would have to enter PvP for a legendary back piece they weren’t forced to.

Ad Infinitum has a different skin than the Ascension. The only thing they have in common is the pink nametag. The fact remains that if you wanted the Ascension, PvP was the only way to get it, and earning a dozen Ad Infinitums would not get you any closer. Furthermore, Ad Infinitum can only be earned in Fractals, which are no better than PvP in terms of a specific and often undesirable activity.

But again, if the methods of earning Ad Infinitum bother you, suggest alternatives and I’m likely to support you, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Since pve players have their own Legendary wings the Ascenesion is just a skin at that point for PvP players. There is no mechanical or stat advantage provided by it that you don’t have with ad Infinitum, this is just another case of you wanting something you don’t want to work for. It is healthy for there to be unique items for each gamemode, and since most players don’t just do 1 game mode and 1 game mode only these items being used in all gamemode works perfectly and doesn’t make people want to quit since they can jump over to another game mode with the gear they got in PvP.

Ohoni.6057:

First, a system like the one you propose would not have attracted casuals to come try pvp. That was a major reason for the backpack or it was made a major reason.

First, the League system was HORRIBLY designed if the goal was to attract non-PvPers. Oh, it may have gotten them to play the bare minimum necessary, but it created the absolute worst environment for them to potentially enjoy themselves enough to stick around.

Setting a super-long-term goal like The Ascension is not how to design something designed to attract outsiders in. Using the same basic mechanics, same basic rewards, here’s how I would have designed the system:

1. The Wings of the Recruit, which require passing to Emerald at least once, would remain exactly as it is. It would then unlock a second achievement track that would require you to do the same in season 2, and 3, and 4 in order to get all the pieces needed for the Ascension. These four elements could ONLY be earned this way, requiring that all players at least attempt each PvP season, but any player could be expected to complete these tasks within the time allowed.

2. the remaining materials could still be earned via the current methods. If you enjoy PvP, then this would be the fastest way to earn them, and would also provide alternate methods of earning the other bits, so basically a hardcore PvPer could earn the full wings in whatever time he managed it under the current rules, while the first “PvP casual” to earn the wings would be at least season 4.

3. Of course even the PvP casuals would have to spend plenty of time and effort acquiring the remaining pieces, there would just be alternate methods of earning them, through story chapters, map achievements, dungeon currencies, all sorts of elements so that players who really don’t enjoy PvP could pursue the bulk of the collection outside of PvP, but would spend an equivalent, or likely higher amount of effort in the process as if they’d just PvPed for it.

This is the best of all worlds. It gives PvPers something to shoot for where they have the inside track, it allows PvP-haters to still get the item they want without failing entirely at enjoying themselves, and it encourages dabblers to try PvP each season, and if they have ANY chance of being converted, they will be, and can pursue the wings the default route from there. It also has the fringe benefit of PvPers not being teamed with people who have no interest in actually being there, will lay horribly and not mind that fact, and will complain all over the forums about how PvP is broken, even in ways that serious PvPers know is working fine.

I really hope that devs hold their word and leagues will be more skill based next season. Surely, i might possibly not reach legend (who knows, i am by all means not amazing) but at least it will have value. And it will be motivation for pvp’ers to improve instead of just mindlessly spamming matches.

I wouldn’t mind that at all, so long as there are no armor or weapon skins that require high league placing. I think people who get high scores deserve the ability to show that off, I just don’t think they should have armor or weapons that other people might want but cannot possess.

Again why should pve players in your eyes get everything? Pve players already get the bulk of all legendary items. You already have a route to obtain a set of Legendary wings Soley from Pve as well as every single weapon. No other gamemode has that access to legendary items, next you would say that every game mode should get those items but contradict your self with you having already said that PvP should not give any rewards that can be used in pve as shown here. All you want are the rewards without putting in the effort the gamemode asks for, no one forced you into PvP to get a set of legendary wings since pve already has a set.

Ohoni.6057:

I hope nothing. The Ascension was toxic to PvP and to the game as a whole. They should not provide rewards that can only be earned through PvP, unless they can be something that nobody outside of PvP would ever want or need.

And in PvP the only real way another thief will die to a thief is the culmination of multiple attacks at, I.e. Basi Venom, BP>Bound+ Steal w/mug then a HS just to be sure.

Ohoni.6057:

The only thing that was toxic was being forced to play other classes when we only main 1 or two. I’m tired of the, “I don’t main this class but I need the rewards” mentality.It just skews matchmaking even further.

No, the toxic element was flooding sPvP with thousands of players who had absolutely no interest in sPvP. You can’t expect to have a healthy multiplayer environment when many of the players do not share the same fundamental goals of what a healthy environment should be.

You have to original sPvP hardcore that actually cared about “prestige” and about fair match-ups and about honest competition between players, and then you had far more players who were just in it to clear out their achievements and get the wings so they could get back to the PvE they actually enjoyed.

Nobody benefits from that.

So whatever they do next season, it should not involve any sort of exclusive reward that would have any purpose outside of an sPvP match. It could maybe be a finisher, or a title, or a nametag flair, just nothing that a PvEer would ever say “I never want to PvP, ever, but I really do want that thing.”

Pvers already had that with the Ad Infinitum the only difference is the skin. No pve player would have to enter PvP for a legendary back piece they weren’t forced to.

Here is my sPvP build I have been running, I use a variant in WvW as well with good results.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVl0MhSnY5TwxJw/EHwE1OQXuBVnABwu5Tj4oNA-TpBFABEcCAA4BAsz+DUXGA4jAADHCAA

This build requires knowing advantageous positioning and how to properly kite each class, so far the hardest class to face with it is Ele, Engie can be a headache as well.

Will update this post more in depth, the quick and dirty is engage with Basi Venom and While in Unload pop Assassins Signet if any projectile hate stop Unload and AA till there’s an opening them use unload.

Saiyan.1704:

Xillllix.3485:

He has obviously never been moa’ed.

Well, he’s indeed in a wheel chair so..

He isn’t in a wheel chair, quit lying. He is clearly in a casket.

I want them to bring back Rally on clone death was a fun time….

emkelly.2371:

Well thieves can still one shot almost anything accept Warriors or DH’s. I agree the stealth nerf hurts especially D/D thief. and it is unnecessary, but i dont think more ways to kill is the problem. I think we need to stop having our ways to kill taken away from us. already DH makes thief pretty useless unless they are pistol/ pistol (and in that case everything else can wreck their face.

I beg your pardon the only class that wrecks my face on P/P is Elementalists, other others are fodder to me.

It’s not a lion Cub it’s a Tiger……

^ this, a more articulated version of my response.

Yeah you never complete year 3s div crossing achievement

Jugglemonkey it wouldn’t be broken with Rending shade since it would be 2 boon strips every 3-4 seconds if the Stealth attack hits, and if that would be a problem they can remove the ICD on Stealth attacks and place it on Rending Shade

No crit with Mug those were dark times.

Thieves are still used in raids they are not favorable since no group utility besides bv

Coronet who are you referring to?

We don’t bring group support while those classes do

Wargameur.6950:

Doesn’t retribution of shadow had a bit too much synergy with everything ? if you have steal + shadow step + d/p it’s basically 4 condi clears, one spammable, one available every 20 sec ( with TR ) and one that removes 5 condis ( 1 + (3+1) ).

And since you shadowstep on shortbow it means perma superspeed. even with sword, you can use 2 twice in a row and it is super speed for free.

Compared to Mesmers 5 condie cleanses on shatters? One on an 11 second CD. Or Warriors Condi cleanses on burst skill?

Jim Hunter.6821:

EremiteAngel.9765:

the power creep and lack of balance is already big enough. why do you need more stats?

We don’t need more stats, but if anet is going to introduce them then they should give each game mode their own way to attain them.

This is the same argument that happened when HoT was released and people were forced out of WvW to upgrade everything. When people complained on here about not being able to level their stuff up through WvW you had a handful of kittens trolling the threads saying stuff like,“the new PvE isn’t that bad”, and “it won’t kill you to PvE”. The result of forcing players out of WvW was a kitten ton of people quit the game all together. I personally quit for several months because I can’t stomach this games boring kitten PvE.

For those talking about the gift of battle crap, that’s not at all relevant. Legendaries are cosmetic, having access to higher stats isn’t.

All the people that have the infusions slot worked for them in fractals you can do the same thing, and no it’s not much different if people don’t want to WvW for GoB then they should give them their own way to get them using your logic. The only people that need the extra infusion slots are people that do high Level fractals.

The only thing is Fractal tuners need the extra slots while WvW players not so much, and would it kill you to spend some time in Fractals? You make more gold there than WvW, which allows you to buy more food and more siege…..

Wargameur.6950:

Saiyan.1704:

There’s definitely window’s of opportunity that most Thieves are either unaware, or don’t know how to play the wait game so they go all in.

If the Guardian has full health, odds are they have full cds. Unless you burst with a Rev or Ranger’s pet bursts first, it’ll otherwise be an uphill battle. But if you burst while he’s at half health and/or you know he already used his F3 Shield & Test of Faith trap, then he has very little to recover.

Your first CC (stun, pull, push, knockdown etc) activates his Stability trap. Guard can have a total of 3 stability items up unless he’s Symbolic built. You know he’s symbolic when his 1-hander weapon symbols are larger on point. That means he lacks F3 stability and is weaker to CC (if you attack from back).

Unlike a Necro or Rev where you have to burst head on before they get stronger later; if you play the wait game with the Guardian by deliberately watching DH health drop to half and wasting cds, that’s usually your opportunity to gank him. Bait him out with hit-&-run attacks.

If you insist on attacking a DH head on, Staff Vault builds can 1v1 him more successfully, followed by pistol builds (though not as successful).

That ’s the kind of tips I was looking for, since d/p is pretty much the only build viable at all level of pvp.

I know that p/p is a good counter, but I don’t intend to play it as it doesn’t offer much utility. And condi d/d is too easily countered.

Anyway, thanks for all your answers

P/P can have utility you just need to run DrD instead of CS and use Bound through BP, then Shadowstep, Bandits Defens or Blinding Powder and SoA you use BP and Bound for Stealth and so on its less viable than D/P but not by much if you know how to position and keep distance between you and others when needed.

Great way to nuke someone is BV>BP>Bound Assassins Signet steal into Unload. Don’t do this to a DH though due to traps with daze and the passive trap.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

Add to it protection and other dmg reducing spells/traits, not to mention close to perma weakness either applied by attacks or passives. The only class thief can crit for higher than 5k dmg nowdays is… other thieves and only of all the stars align.

Shall I start dumping screenshots of 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12k crits from thieves on my DH or warrior?

How about the 37k crit my necro suffered?

Or the uppercut while downed that crit me for 17k on my rev?

In a good team comp, a thief will have 15-20 stacks of might if he’s even remotely close to a team fight. So add 450-600 power to those calculations and they go up 125-250%, putting them all well over 3.5k.

Even if the Thief had 25 stacks of might they would be at 8356 on a crit. And a thief will never be close to 25 stacks of might in PvP, and Thieves don’t participate in Team fights the majority of the time.

Kuya.6495:

p/p thf works on guards that use too many traps but not on meditrappers who use shields. d/p thf fairs better but isn’t necessarily a sure thing. dodge spam condi thf can eventually kill a menders guard but not a marauder one.

The Symbolic DH which used Sw/Fo and Sc or Ma/Sh is at a bigger disadvantage than the Medi Trapper using LB. I have been playing a core thief build using Da/Tr/Cs all season and only once found a DH that could kill me 1v1 and he was smart about fighting me.btrying to use D/P is a lot worse against DH from all of the Aoe/ close range cc they have.

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

3k dmg? On what, your auto attack?

Backstab hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for around 3.5k and can crit as high as 10k. Lotus Strike hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for 2.5k and can crit as high as 8k. And with most thieves running around with 70%+ crit chance they can and do frequently 2-shot heavy armor classes.

You have an almost-instant guaranteed stomp with the uppercut combo. no other class can stomp that fast or with that much impunity. Engi comes close with shrink invul but that can still be evaded with some downed skills.

You can disengage and reset basically at will. You have the single best mobility in the game, by a HUGE margin.

Pretty much the only thing thieves are lacking is group utility. And even then, they’re not completely dry. Staff does okay in team fights, P/P melts things pretty quick from a safe range, and you’ve got a bunch of combo fields and your near-instant-stomp to bring.

I really don’t understand why thieves are complaining about 1v1 in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on group fights.

In group fights thieves can’t commit to without dying staff lasts longer than other sets but barely since the after cast on Vault, P/P is only able to burst hard if you dump all initiative into unload spam which drains 1/3 of the Thief’s initiative per activation and with the amount of reflect and projectile hate in game either the thief nukes them self or a teammate or it does nothing at all.

And one backstab non crit behind against a Meta Condi Warrior with the Meta thief build.

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07)/3247=2028.117 non crit so no wear near the 3.5k baseline you profess.

Now let’s see the crit with that.

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07)/3247=3934.547. So no where near your proposed 8k.

Now let’s see for some reason said non meta build damage without toughness

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07)/2228=2955.69 still not 3.5k
With lead Attacks
(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.1*1.1*1.07*1.09)/2228=3221.7 non crit

(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07)/2228=5734.05 still not 8k damage

With Lead attacks
(952.5*2225*2.4)(1.94*1.1*1.1*1.07*1.09)/2228=6250.11 nowhere near 8k still

Edit to add Even more damage modifiers to account for Lead attacks so the normal BP to HS combo for stealth will make 9% damage increase.

and Meta build Thieves have 54% crit chance and 74% if they have Fury which only last 10 seconds every 20 seconds on steal

I vote Thief get MH and OH Torches and new Elite called Arsonist, so with Burning, Blinding and possibly Confusion and actual Aoe damage …….

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Pff, if you 2 are going to brag about your gender then I would much rather watch you 2 have a topless mud wrestleing match, not silly pve fractals videos , or your jam.

Back on topic, has bs always had an after cast this long? It’s weird because tactical strike has a faster re-cast time then back stab.

Yes as far as I remember, this was the only time Sword had an attack that was faster than Dagger

The best way to kill a DH as a Thief is to run P/P you can either use Da/Tr/DrD with P/P and Staff or you can use Da/Tr/Cs with Assassins Amulet and either Rune of the Scholar or Rune of the Wurm your choice with P/P with SB, you have to time bursts and kite keep them at 700-900 range, open with an Unload then use AA or Pistol 2 whenever they pop their Defensive CDs/ Heals, then keep doing that till all their defensive a are on CD then Try to burst with Unload spam as cheesy as it is.

the Utilities you would want to run are Shadowstep, Blinding Powder and either Assassin’s Signet for bigger burst on unload or Signet of Agility for more precision and more dodges, you want Basilisk Venom for your Elite to help tear through their Defenses.

Most DHs will drop within a couple seconds to this pressure if you get an actual competent DH it takes longer and you will be hard pressed while Kiting if that’s the case try to disengage and reset or disengage entirely because someone is most likely on their way to help them.

This really melts and screws up the Bads that run full traps, since they require you to Proc their traps but if you don’t afford that oppurtunity you will win 8/10 times

Only thing I notice that needs correcting with Evileks post is he states Mesmer can chain 8 second of invuln if they pop continuum split while the same is with DHs Renewed Focus and Shield of Courage, as well he is not listing all of the passive Aegis applications as well as the skills that give Aegis on skill use.

So skills like Protector’s Strike give two blocks to them and nearby allies the actual block from the skill then Aegis once it ends, then you have Shield of Justice which provides Aoe Aegis, then the actual Passives of Shield of Courage every 30-40 secs if traited it applies Aegis, then you have Hunter’s Determination which provides multiple chances to keep applying aegis in a short time frame.

But yes the main issue is the class stacking happening. If it is just 1 or possibly 2 DHs not much of an issue and their sustain is no where near S1-3 of Elemetalist cleric sustain, I find I can burst most DHs with my thief if I just kite and time my burst in the small windows, trying to blow them up in one go won’t work unless there is multiple people on the DH.

Portions of DH could be tuned down but they are only really bad in stacked matches.

Dagger.2035:

I would have to agree the CD does make it feel like you’ve just been dazed. I’ve been avoiding stealth attacks with S/D to prevent my auto attack from being disabled. At this point I would rather be revealed when a stealth attack misses.

I know this isn’t the right answer but with all the restrictions they keep placing on Thief stealth they should make all stealth attacks unblockable, the reasons being there is an excessive amount of Evades, Invulns, Blinds, and other forms of damage mitigation on top of the ever present 3 seconds of Revealed that Thieves get if the attack even connects as well as the 1 second Cd on a failed attack.

It’s not a perfect solution and can be viewed as power creep but it is highly justifiable with the direction Anet is taking “balance” since Thieves keep getting punished for using one of the classes main Mechanics, and no other classes get restrictions on theirs.

Lexander.4579:

everything non-HoT is viable as long as you enjoy getting slaughtered

Core Thief just as well if not better with all the Condi spam than Daredevil, Thief in general this season is at a huge disadvantage with the surplus of DHs in every ranked match, only build I found that can troll DHs effectively is a P/P build that melts DH while Kiting.
I haven’t tried any other non Hot Specs this season so I have no input with them.