Guild Wars 2

I mean, I just did unlock/forge the Wings of Ascension, and despite the particle effects are cool, this item doesn’t provide a true light source, like the Fractal Capacitor or the Fires of Balthazar backpack.

There’s not a lot of places where those light sources do bring help (mostly some dungeons/puzzles), but seems absurd that you can get the Fires of Balthzar in a weekend and get that nice feature whereas you need weeks of effort to achive the Wings of Ascension, in which is absent. Also, the legendary PvP backpack doesn’t provide any form of step signature. Seems wrong to me, like a Fiat 500 having more HP than a Ferrari…

AtriustheGod.6785:

What category do I report them under? Does anet even give a kitten about this behavior?

As I remember the developers textually said as “using bots” (obviously they aren’t using a bot but it fills the “trying to manipulate the competition” slot).

TheSwede.9512:

In PvP, Herald is currently one of the meta-definers along with Reaper and it’s currently the strongest overall contender due to being relatively easy to play and having a good balance between offense and sustain.

I think that in PvP is one of the hardest class to master; much much harder than Eles or Mesmers, at least on par with Thieves and in my experience maybe they are a close call with Engineers in terms of how much dexteriry and awareness the require.

…In terms of rewards. I mean: I already get all the HoT PvP finishers and did complete all PvP tracks (including some of them as the Glorious Armor one several times). Magus Waterfalls? Silverwastes? Glorious again?

Don’t be fooled by the numbers, they only have a significance in a context. In example: I did break the 1 million damage in a match using my DH, but was in 15 min match in which some foes were Minionmancers.

Usually I do move around 400k-700k with my marauder based DH, whereas with my Shiro Herald using paladin amulet only breaks 300k-400k per match, but I do score more kills and get kills faster with the Revenant than with the Guardian. Area damage will always provide you larger numbers in teamfights, but a lot of times if there’s no focus or burst most of that damage is easily recovered by sustain. Doing high spikes at burst to a few targets in crucial moments in the matches matters more than averaging larger numbers at the end of the fights not scoring the deaths or flees that earn you the victories.

By the way, I did today a streak of 7 wins out of 15 matches with my Reaper chillomancer and another one of 7 wins out of 12 matches with my Berserker rifleman just go get the achievements (path 3 almost done). That warrior build is a joke but trolls well in Shappire, and Reaper is easy to play and really fun despite I have like 20 matches with that class in 3.5 years… My experience based on this second season:

Herald (Power Shiro) = Reaper (Chillomancer) >> Dragon Hunter >>>> Berserker (GS/Rifle). All are capable at low level for the achievements, but pray using the last ones in serious competition…

You already have the option to get the Fractal legendary backpack in PvE if you like that mode so much.

I think that most of the people -as me- which plays on regular basis at PvP does that because we love the combat in this game, specailly against other people with capable hands and functional brains; the fact that playing “X” matches provides us the achieve of a shiny thing is just an extra.

We play for the blood; maybe if you find hard to get this thing in PvP you should either stop to pray to some pagan quagan deity and star to bow to Khorne or just desist.

I’m going well; after playing like 20 matches with DH medi trap I quit for Power Shiro due my team didn’t thik my class was filling any defined role, and then I was able to get even better w/l ratio with the Herald even I don’t really known what I’m doing half of the time.

Then for the “gain 7 matches with three different classes” of the third part of the legenday backpack achievement I did change to Chillomancer and was able to perform solo with random dudes even better than with DH in premade, so great, Guadian is in good spot…

I have no plan to touch DH again until the “gain 10 marches with a Guardian” of the 4th path.

Laxus.3062:

Not sure how rev is in pvp, but its definitly top tier in wvw roaming.

7 slots of 20 in the finals of the Pro League season 1, only one of those teams (Vemillion) didn’t use two. Is doing it fine.

draxynnic.3719:

Kuya.6495:

I would love to ask the pro league finals participants why they think guardian, thf and warrior could not be used for their finals. I assume they tested some builds so they must have some valuable information.

To be honest, I expect part of it is that at that level, using a nerfed build that you’ve spent hours upon hours practising with is still a less bad option than switching horse midstream to a build that’s theoretically better but you don’t have the experience with.

Most of those teams have truly capable multiclass players, and they can swap at will if they found some combo particulary strong. If Magic Toker is playing Rev instead of Thief is not because He’s better at using that class of He likes it more, but because on average Revs provides better value for the team composition.

@Saiyan: Ele is used mostly due they can cleanse conditions while remaining tanky enough and provide decent damage; Guardian/DH can provide cleanses but then hits like a wet towell.

ArenaNet has 9 classses, not 100+ like a MOBA (which are arguably way harder to balance) and classes in theory have several builds available through different weapons, skill, traits and stat combinations, but they consistently fail at provide at least one valuable spot (a viable build) for high level teamplay in the competitive portion of the game (sPvP).

They do things like discarding amulets (celestial, soldier…) because removing problematic stuff is easier than fixing and balancing skills (like the removal of the aquatic parts of the game).

They nerfed G/DH in the Jan 26th patch (cc from daze halved, damage from traps reduced…) because low level players complained about how OP were DH -when nobody was using DHs in the Pro League-, and they buffed the Smite Condition cleanse because… I don’t ever known why, that was a pointless enhancement that would not change the fate or state of the class at all in PvP. They went too much with the nerf hammer on the Mesmer, while going too litle with the buffs on Warriors; those clonclusions were pretty much evident for the top players right after the patch.

And still, they have this BIG problem with specializations vs core classes: is not only that they can’t balance the classes to provide reasonable chances to each one to be competitive, they also neglect the old ones to the point of no core class was being able to compete for a single slot in a four rosters of five top players. No one.

HoT was released in October; until -at least- June, Guardians, Warriors and Thieves will remain not viable in high end competitive game. That’s 2/3 of a year, and I find it embarrasing.

The only positive thing I saw is that at least now a lot of characters die in the matches and the gameplay is fast and thrilling. That’s a good point (albeit due they focused in removing amulets instead of balancing skills and traits the problem persists in WvW roaming).

Ok, I just saw the season 1 Pro League finals, and definitely Guardian/Dragon Hunter is not/will not be meta in season 2/the next three months. So let’s take a look:

• 4 teams, 20 players

• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Engi (Abjured and Rank 55 Dragons)
• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Mesmer (PZ)
• Rev + Necro + Ele + Engi + Ranger (Vermillion)

That makes 7 Revs, 4 Necros, 4 Elementalists, 3 Engineers, 1 Mesmer and 1 Ranger.

Enjoy the “Guardian/Dragon Hunter” back to the meta (the meta is not running this class, or a Warrior or even a Thief in your team if you’re going to face serious competition).

^ Yes to that last question. I do apreciate the advices about the runes, traits and weapons, thanx a lot. About Invocation, I don’t worry too much about since from my experience in PvP most of the time with condition Rev is spent in Shiro legend, anyway.

Dreddful.4860:

So when is the nerf?

Was in the January 26th patch; they nerfed the damage and halved the daze effect (which requires a trait) just for handicaped brains. Aparently, not enough for the average level of baddies in this game.

Ok, I’m going to craft a condition ascendant armor for my WvW roaming Revenant (Shiro + Mallyx); I already have chosen to go viper for the weapon stats and dire + rabid for the trinkets, but have doubts about the armor (each piece is [b]very[/i] expensive, so better to not mess up the things). Mostly I’m undecided between going viper, sinister, or a mix between rabid and sinister. An example of the projected build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRAse5nnfNuNSuJ7JRHlVlskyrS4SZWJorcskFUlJNgDaw+82rX9iNGB-TVSHAB3pE8IlfEcCACZ/hAOCAA8AAKX/gAHEAdV/JAACwMLzysMDO6RP6RP6Rbmz8oz8ozsUALqsC-w

Base health will remain the same (~19900), with viper the power will be ~1600, armor around 2800, crit chance ~24.5% and condition duration ~51%. Sinister and sinister/rabid will have a bit less power (~1300-1500), a bit more armor (up to 3000), more crit chance (~30%) but less condition duration (~38%). So, based on your own experiences, which election would be better?

Aezyr.5304:

Because you don’t have 10 necros dropping wells on those that got caged into your LB #5? There are “little” differences between pvp and wvw….

Maybe is more because stability was destroyed in June. With the old system this wouldn’t be a problem. So ArenaNet created the problem, and isn’t a trouble linked to this specific class, but due the rampant umbalance between the amount of cc that exist in the game compared to the small acces to stability -and how easilly gets wiped-.

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

It surprising how versatile the build is, from larger zergs, to small group fights, to even 1v1s. I had been distraught about the state of guardians (I have 2, including my main) but this has perked me up a bit.

Guardians/DH went extinct in the PvP Pro League season 1, and looking to the nerfs in damage and cc over the traps since the jan 26th patch the future looks dire for that class in that part of the game.

Taking in consideration that the nerfs on the amulets in PvP had 0 effects over the tankiness of Tempest, Chronos and Scrappers in WvW I’m surprised about people having problems against DH in WvW…

draxynnic.3719:

Largely, I’d have to say I agree with Obtena. I’ve been pvping with guardian for about a year now, and in that time I’ve never felt like I was playing a weak profession (not always the strongest, but never weak). That’s more than I can say for some of the other professions…

Guardians faced extinction in high competitive play after HoT release/Tage departure. Playing a Guardian/DH since then did mean that you can’t ask for a slot in any serious team.

Is not like everyone has time/wants to play at that level, but is discouraging to known that even if you want and maybe you have the required skill, your class is framed and you will not pass the cut. Same aplies to Warriors. Is not that hard to understand.

AivenPrimus.9184:

1. First, … DH, is the only Elite spec, that has a clear, base buff on their Class Mechanic Skill,
   -F1, Unblockable, Piercing Instant cast Chain with Less CDR, more dmg, more utility.
   -F2, Leap with Less CDR, double heal.
   -F3, 5s long, AoE Block
   Combine this with Renewed Focus.

For you this seems like ’’meh’’, but considering that every single DH uses exactly the same Meditrapper build with Renewed Focus skill.
(I dont even see any reason why Anet ever decided to give a buff to DH mechanic skills)

1) Every DH virtue has cast time and can be interruped -whereas Guardian’s virtues were instant-.

2) F2 doesn’t double heal; the base regeneration is fairly weak and you lose it activating the virtue. This skill is more important in terms of mobility than due the heal, must ad.

3) F3 block is weak; at best you have a 5 second projectile block each ~65 seconds. To put this in perspective: untraited Wall of Reflection provides 10 seconds each 40 seconds and Revenant’s hammer #4 gives you a 6 second projectile block each 12.

4) Both Guardians and Demon Hunter specialization remains usless in high level PvP matches since the Heart of Thorns three months and half ago. Despite this, the traps got nerfed in cc and arguably the class will remain not-viable in the Pro League season 2 (which grants at least another three months of uselesness until the next patch, expected after the end of the regular PvP League season 2.

5) Guardian players using more than 1-2 traps are arguably terribad; other players recurrently dying against Dragon Hunters stacking traps are arguably worse than terribad. This is not a “learn to play problem” due players which insist in eating one time and other and other the same terribad trappers are clearly unable to learn, so the best they can do -for the heatlh of their own team mates and the PvP comunity is just ragequit and uninstall.

In PvP core Guardians already had a good spot in the game since the beguining due thir role as holders/supporterss, a very boring task but at least they did that honorably. HoT introduced bunkers that did the bunker and support part better than Guardians (Mesmers, Druids) and bruisers capable to tank and destroy Guardians/DH in 1 vs 1 ( Revenants, Scrappers).

Not a single complaint about DH in the last four montths in is this forum was proved truthful in competitive gameplay, so please stop being that bad at playing.

Hunter.4783:

Spvp: the meta changes away from bunker actually BUFFED the DH. They are a direct counter to thieves, kitten on most melee, can beat revs now on point. Very solid class overall.
Bunker eles and mesmers are nerfed

Enjoy boys and girls. We are back to meta

I will believe this when I see it in the Pro League 2 in matter of ~4 weeks. Until then the only thing I saw were eles and mesmers demoted as top dogs and replaced by scrappers and druids (heralds stay more or less the same and a daredevil x team is a must). My bet is another three months outside the meta.

I’m using this, but requires DH (albeit only one trap):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJATRnsABlDhVdCeDB8DhlEiCbDeuy8aZDgEQe5j+sH-TpBBAByXGgjDBQR7PAwFAovHAwGHBAA

Low armor, high base HP, high crit chance and moderate to high damage. Three blocks (F3, Shelter, elite), thee pulls (F1, gs #5, lb #1,2,3 with Heavy Light each 10 seconds), multiple sources of healing (Shelter, 3 meds, F2…). Some keys in my fights against Reapers/Necros:

• Necros/Reapers aren’t very fast paced; when I defend a point I usually start to hit them at range with lb auto while they approach. Sometimes I use F3 to null their pockes just at the beguining; oftenly I throw lb #5 at max range due they have poor access to stability and lack gap closers -plus, in some maps the path to the nodes is very predictable-.

• Is mandatory to avoid their wells asap, never fight a Necro inside their AoE attacks; always remember that you don’t need to stay all time over a point to keep it protected; as long as you contest the point is very easy to keep it -at least- neutral.

• Preventing a decap against their class is very hard but preventing them to capture the point is easy due Heavy Light pushing effect each ten seconds and our Spear of Justice and Binding Blade pulls. At range, between the combination of F3 and Deflecting Shoot is easy to make a dent on their main HP bar before they are able to hurt us significatively. When I keep a point my Test of Faith trap is always latent in the area; I try to force them to cross the trap as a barrier. I never waste my trap if the one in the floor is still unlocked. The cripple from the trap helps to keep the Reaper at range; the sigil of generosity + the high crit chance helps to deal with conditions without spending our valuable but limited active cleanses. Remember that lb #4 not only can start a fire usefull to guard the center of the capture point but also lets you combo with lb #1, 2, 3 to get extra condition cleanses.

• Once at close range the Reaper will try to burst us and recover some life entering in their shroud; those skills are powerfull but they are still very vulnerable to cc in that phase. The use of our blocks (Shelter, elite), blinds (F1, gs #3) and evades (including F2 to stay away and recover some health at key moments will exhaust their resources. This will always be a battle of attrition due you can’t simply “burst” a class with two health bars, so you must be patient, erode slowly their hp and be conservative using your skills (specially your cleanses) to win. Reapers had a large HP, but their sustain is weak and they can’t easily recover that health once is lost.

That’s all. Try to fight most of the time at range, and use the greatsword just to take advantage from the #3, #5 or a short burst with #2; stay in longbow most of the time. Knockbacks are your friends.

^ For old legendaries just grind gold and buy them in the Black Lion Market.

I own Twilight since fall 2013 and at the end of November of the last year I took the decision to craft Sunrise (to create Eternity) and Flameseeker of Prophecies; I spent ~75 minutes a day gathering platinum and iron in December and then only Iron in this January. At the beguinning of 2016 I bought Dawn at ~880 gold coins and two weeks ago The Chosen at ~480 gold coins. So I got ~1400 gold coins spending a bit over an hour per day just doing this with my eleven toons:

…Waaay more convenient to me than grinding the precursors in the new fashion. Now I can finish the job without too much trouble.

The key of the delays isn’t in the design of the weapons: is in the design of the grinding to get the precursor.

Probably at this time Anet is thinking that the path for the three new ones “wasn’t grindy enough”, so it’s keeping them busy to figure how the hell timegate new ones that rich people couldn’t complete in a few weeks…

Chokolata.1870:

Guardian/Dragon hunter:
- DH virtue CDs increased to match core Guardian virtue CDs
- true shot CD increased to 6 seconds

While there are other issues these are the biggest currently, in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of players posting on this forum..

Thoughts?

My thoughts: Guardian/Dragon Hunter became useless in high level gameplay since the Heart of Thorns release, with 0 of 80 players in the Pro League using this class after the second week of the competition (outside that first joke match in the 5th week against Rank 55 Dragons in which the troll team using Thief + Warrior + Guardian got rolfstomped 0-500). Things didn’t gett better for the poor Guardian/Dragon Hunter after the Jan 26th patch (nerfs in cc, no improvements in neither core Guard or DH) so seems that will remain useless in competitive teamplay for another 3 months (the whole second Pro League).

Prove me wrong, but the troubles in the forums with True Shot have the same origin as the ones with the traps: this is essentially a “learn to play” problem and mostly unavoidable (is not possible to balance the game to players who refuse to learn to play) no matter the changes you make.

You are complaining about a skill from a class which was utterly useless in high level of play in the recent Pro League 1 and despite that was nerfed (cc from traps) in the Jan 26th patch.

Now, if in the Pro League 2 they can bring some sort of success, maybe you will be right to complaint, but my personal bet is that G/DH will be again outside the meta. And being outclased by a class which underperform is, you known, a bit sad.

@Yashuoa: Evade + Unwavering Avoidance + Enhanced Bulwark = 60% stability uptime (3 seconds each 5), seems fine to me (DH’s Heavy Light grants 6 seconds stab each 10 but only provides 1 stack instead of the 2 stacks the Herald gets).

I don’t see what problem Mallyx Herald would have against physical damage users taking in consideration that 1) most of time they fight in Shiro stance, anyway and 2) they can spam conditions like crazy with auto attacks, which is one of the reasons due I think that the cleansing power from Guardians is overrated (was great before the stack system revamp, but not now).

The thing is: Guardian has now lesss cc and damage than before the patch, and before the patch our pressence in high level competitive gameplay (PvP) was 0.

Yashuoa.9527:

What is so great about Herald after the patch?
Necro kinda counters Mallyx.
Power Herald has close to no condi cleanse, their Glint heal is not instant anymore and their autoattack dmg is lowered.
No Scrapper in your team?

My bad, I forget abot Scpapper; I would chose a Reaper, Daredevil, Scrapper, Druid and Herald for team composition.

I would run Mallyx Herald, either hybrid (viper) or pure condi (carrion). Condition Herald remain almost unchanged after the patch and in my opinion they were stronger than physical damage Revenekittenn the previous meta, so oustide losing the
durability rune they are as good as ever -maybe better because now they don’t have to focus classes with celestial/soldier amulets anymore-.

So, Druid and Scrapper work as holders, providing sustain and support; Reaper is the main source of cc and sustained damage, whereas Daredevil and Herald provide high mobility (decaping) and good pressure through damage burst (DD) and insane condi aplication (Herald).

Guardian/DH is neither as good as holder/suport as Druid or Scrapper (also, those classes output decent damage while traited to be bunkers, whereas bunk Guardian hits like a wet towel, so they are viable bruisers, G/DH isn’t). G/DH isn’t as good as Reaper/Necro with cc/debufs, and of course our mobility sucks near to a DD or a Herald. I see no place for Guardians/Dragon Hunters in the new PvP meta.

brannigan.9831:

Would a Druid really be that much better then a bunker guardian for example? Maybe it would be I admit to not knowing that much about them except the nonsensical daze spam, pet, and they can spam heals once they build up there mechanic. Would it be 5% better, 20% better etc? Questions like that matter because there is no way classes can be exactly proficient at the same role but if its closeish you can kind of make it work.

I think that Druid is better in the current meta than Guard/DH due their heals are a lot more stronger, and that kind of support will be better in small teamfights than boons, which can be easilly rtiped off/corrupted in this new meat in which Necros/Reapers are the new top dogs.

Yashuoa.9527:

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.

I would use a Reaper, Daredevil, Herald and Druid in any team composition, leaving the last slot to either stack a second Reaper, a second Herald or maybe a “I ignore your blocks” Berserker.

Yashuoa.9527:

You listed only 4 roles and there are 5 people in a team.

Come on, you saw some teams in the pro league just using 3 Revs + 2 Mesmers and doing it fine. You don’t need 5 roles in a team -and much less five different classes- if some of those roles can be filled stacking unbalanced ones. Most of the teams were 2 Heralds + 2 Chronos and one slot to fill with either Scrapper, Druid or Necro.

Azure.8670:

Buran.3796:

PvP: Revenant
Open PvE, dungeons, fractals: any of them
Raids: Revenant
Gathering stuff/farming: DH
WvW: any of them

Rev is the superior class for farming and gathering. Their movement speed will let you get across a map ridiculously fast. Rev cant tag mobs as well as Guard, but this isnt the Orr days and thats not even important anymore.

I like this arguing due I have twelve 80s and farming is my main source of wealth, so I’ve tested this extensively with all of the classes and specializations. And imo you’re wrong:

• The two key points in gathering are mobility and avoiding combat. Mobility is crucial to reach locations, but avoiding combat is even more important because combat makes you slower and prevents you to use waypoints (and even from replacing the tools if you don’t have limitless ones in each character).

• In mobility Herald has a good base due Facet of Elements perma swiftness and Impossible Odds limited quickness. Both are better than having to rely on traveler runes or being forced to use the inconsistent acces to swiftness from the Guardian/DH traits and skills.

• Then as gap closers, with Rev/Herald you have Phase Trasversal and Frigid Blitz (axe #4), plus Surge of the Mist (Staff #5); Guardians/DH have Leap of Faith (greatsword #3), Flasing Blade (sword #2) and Judge’s Intervention. Of all those gap closes I would argue that Leap of Faith is the best one due its cooldown paired with the fact that doesn’t requiere a target and therefore prevents you from engaging in combat.

• Finally, preventing you from entering in combat: Guardian/DH is leagues ahead of Rev/Herald. Rev’s staff blocks can engage you in combat. Shield #5 roots you in the floor. Sword #4 is the only reliable source of blocks while moving from revs, but Revs can’t block while gathering. Guardian/DH can: aegis is a reliable and handy source of blocks which is available at large disposal to this class, and outside stealth is the second best way to prevent you from being engaged in dilatory fights.

Revenants has an extra trick: Impossible Odds to speed up the gathering animation itself. But using IO means changing from Glint to Shiro, which means no more perma-swiftness from FoE in at least 10 seconds, so IO is unwelcomed except for gathering ore in rich veins.

Overall, even having Heralds a better base mobility thanx to FoE instead of being forced to use traveller runes, their gap closers aren’t as handy as Leap of Faith and their blocks can’t compete against the ones from Guardian/DH. And due not being engaged in combat is far more important for consistent gathering that mining rich veins a little faster, Guadians/Demon Hunters are better at this task. In fact, I think that only Thieves exced uss in this feature.

Drayos.8759:

but no, DH is better this time round, but I dont rly know if it’ll make meta tier… its Just So Simplistic… so transparent.

DH had 0 (of a roster of 80 players) usage in the season 1 pro league and seems that will have no use (again) in the season 2. Most of teams had two Revs in season one (some teams even tripled the class) and seems that having at least one per team would be viable in season 2.

Also, the whole season one meta was settled in stone in about 2-3 weeks; after that was utterly clear that using a Warrior, Thief or Guardian was wasting a slot. Since the current patch does only change the classes which are op, but doesn’t balance the viability between classes at all, it will only take a few days or weeks to settle a new meta. And after that, the useless classes will remain vain for 3-4 moths…

I got 10 gold coins for amulet and 5 for a rune. Take in consideration that the refunds are only to the amulets/runes/sigils that weren’t available for free (you will get 0 refounds for free items as the celestial or soldier amulets in example).

Yashuoa.9527:

Dont know about pve, but how are we useless in pvp?

I wouldnt be surprised if a guardian build enters the pvp meta or does very good at the very least.

PvP, best sustained damage and cc: Reaper/Necro
PvP, best bruiser: Scrapper
PvP, best holder/support: Druid
PvP, best burst damage/deccaper/+1: Daredevil/Revenant

Those classes will have a place in any team. Not sure about Warrior (got buffed) or Tempest (got debufed). But for Chronos and DHs is pretty much game over: you will not hold a point as good as a Druid or Scrapper (and I even have doubts against bunker Necros) nor being as mobile or bursty as a Rev/Thief.

Before HoT most of players (Guardian mainers) were very critic about DHs, but at the release most of us shup up due the power creep did provide a -false- sense of viability. Was a mirage, no DHs in the Pro League. And I can’t see DHs getting a slot in the second season due the reasons above exposed. No place in a competitive landscape for a class which doesn’t bring any remarkable to the table. We aren’t the best dps class, neither the best bunkers or the best at support, and our best builds at the moment doesn’t even bring too much support, to be honest.

PvP: Revenant
Open PvE, dungeons, fractals: any of them
Raids: Revenant
Gathering stuff/farming: DH
WvW: any of them

Varezenem.2813:

Buran.3796:

I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.

Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.

They killed their stability and necros eat resistance how do you think condi revs can survive?

Instead of 100% uptime stability now Rev have, what? 60%? Evade: 3 seconds of stab, 2 seconds without; evade again: another 3 seconds of stab, 2 seconds without… rinse & repeat, profit. Is even less a problem since energy sigil went destroyed, so is not like the Revenant would be able to take advantage of them even without the new internal cooldown. I was playing al the PvP league with a DH which ist only source of stab was the bow trait (6 seconds every 10 seconds, and only one stack), so the new stab is roughly the same uptime but with x2 the number of stacks.

Yes, Reapers got buffed, but overall most of classses are now less tanky, so even not being top dogs Revs are still strong. Take a look over the new bottom tier (DH and Chronos), they will be useless for the nbext 3 moths… Revs are ok.

I think that condi Rev is as lethal in PvP as was before the patch; they barely had a dent in the build (aside from removing the def rune) but everyone is now a 40% more squishier than yesterday, so killing other classes is now even more easier.

Yes, sword and hammer got nerfs, but the general nerfs in sustain for all classes are larger, and we still have our full condi pressure intact.

brannigan.9831:

mrauls.6519:

Even though I say this, there are things that need to be reworked. I’m just happy we didn’t see a lot of our new tools, traits, or skills greatly nerfed (like revenant for example). I see the positive in this balance patch for us… but maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see

Several of the current meta dominators have been nerfed pretty significantly that alone helps Guardians a little. The buffs we received are pretty meh and of course DH took a hit. Hard to say really at this point my gut feeling is we came out marginally ahead just because others got weaker.

Tempest got a nerf, and Chronomancer a huge nerf. But Scrapper is still the best bruiser, Reaper is the new top dog and Druid still very viable and better tank/support than Guardian. Condi Herald and DD are now the best burst classes. Meanwhile Guardian/DH is now the bottom tier of the PvP along the Chronomancer; even Warriors are now ahead.

And the best part is that this will last another 3 months AT LEAST. Brace yourselves and prepare you to endure another full Pro League without a single Guard/DH in the roster…

MrNumnut.2635:

Some classes, like bunker mes, or trap DH, are just too viable vs everything and therefore require a nerf.

“Too viable” is a weird way to say 0 Dragon Hunters in the 80 player roster of the Pro League (outside More Guns Than Roses trying 2 War + 1 DH + 1 Thief troll composition last Monday in the first match against Rank 55 Dragons just to be rolfstomped).

The issues with the balance are that Arenanet doesn’t proper balance things; instead, when they have a headache with any part of the game they just remove it (in example: water combat, dungeons, WvW matchup sub forum and now celestial amulets). But removing some amulets in PvP will not fix de unbalances in the skills which are the root of the problem. So became aware that in 1 vs 1 roaming (if that still exist) probably you will NEVER be able to beat a good Tempest or Chrono due the cele stats still exists and Arenanet thinks that they “fixed” the problem.

This night the EU Pro League bring me a lot of laughts; I was almost in tears when I saw More Guns Than Roses going 2 Warr 1 DH 1 Thief in the first match against Rank 55 Dragons. They were rolfstomped and lost 0-501, proving how " DH is TAD TOO EFFECTIVE IN THE BURST AND DISRUPTION AREAS" -amongst other poor classes-. The second match More Guns did change to they regular rooster of Chronos and Heralds and were able to get like ~70 points (not much, but at least the fights didn’t feel like executions).

Can’t wait to PvP Season 2 to stare in awe how glorious and awesome our future in high end PvP after the changes will be. /sarcasm

Reapers and Scrappers probably on top: they have several viable iterations and can go either condi or powers without too much trouble keeping their effectiveness as bruisers.

Heralds still strong, due they keep their condi pressure untouched and the other classes will be more squishy than ever. Alternatively, Daredevils could maybe replace their role, but taking the slot of one of the Heralds (not the two).

Druids will have a key role as tanks/support, but probably will be less competitive in terms of damage.

Tempest and Chronos will lose a lot of slots; in some top tiers their slots will probably being disputed; in others they will be played by affinity, but probably with so-so results.

Dragon Hunters and Berserkers probably will stay as irrelevant as they are now.

Nike.2631:

These changes are not going to knock Dragonhunters out of any positions they hold now, and it gives them some breathing room to improve them slightly in other areas without leapfrogging straight to the top of the heap for competitiveness.

And if your jaw didn’t drop that Smite Condition got a buff, you’re either not paying attention or deliberately ignoring it to make an already flawed argument that much more dishonest.

DH will still be outside the meta: the changes in Revenenant didn’t hurt their most competitive build (condi Mallyx) and the currtent dominance by Chronos and Eles will be partially replaced by Reapers, Scrappers and Druids, which are in better state that the “good spot” in which DH are. Probably we will fall from 7th to 8th due the enenhacements to Thieves -which at least can provide some use as viable decapers-.

Smite Condition was the first meditation I ride off my skill bar to place ToF due isn’t able to breakstun as JI or CoP, so the buff is meaningless. To a condi Reaper, or Herald being able to cleanse 2 conditions each 16 seconds is is rrelevant, because they can spam condis with autoattacks. Same with the condi Scrappers.

Obtena.7952:

Here is my secret; I read. Anet already told us why they are balancing these things. That and I don’t assume Anet is lying to me. I save my conspiracy theory powers for good, not evil.

Arenanet told us a bunch of lies in a incomputable amount of times; from not going to introduce stats above exotics, to not ever releasing an expansion and keeping the Living Story model of content, etc.

In a recent example: just before the HoT release told us that gliding wasn’t a possibility due would disrupt the old gameplay, but now seems that gliding at old Tyria is ok and will arrive in just matters of weeks. The last notes about the balance patches are to a large extent a mix between vagueness and ornated words that means nothing.

Lets take a look over their exact words:

“The dragonhunter elite specialization has proven to have a very solid impact in many areas of the game, but they’ve been a tad too effective in the areas of burst and disruption, and we’ll be looking to make slight adjustments in those areas.”

Which solid impact? DH is a subpar dps class in PvE. In WvW the area damage role and area cc role from DH is much better suited by Necros/Reapers (wells), Eles/Tempest (Static Field) or Chronos (Gravity Well). In PvP ther’s no single Guard/DH in the 80 Pro League roster.

Makes me laugh that in the current bunker meta in which, sometimes, takes more than 5 minutes to score a single point in some of the Pro League matches, Arenanet is calling “the DH is TAD TOO EFFECTIVE IN THE BURST AND DISRUPTION AREAS”.

So you say that Anet is telling us the why of those changes, and I call they explanations are absurd, meaningless. I have no conspiracy theories about Anet, because that would mean that they have a plan, that someone is at the rudder. They don’t. They are just being reactive to the vocal complaints in the forums because they are afraid of their customers. Traps are being nerfed not because they are too effective -they aren’t, at all, in any contento of the game- but because people which refuse to learn to play keep complaining in the forums.

An I think that is wrong because I didn’t saw a single evidence of OPness from DHs traps in any area of the game. Where you saw those evidences, Obtena?

^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.

Equally, celestial amulet in PvP was the focus of the hate of large amounts of forum warriors, despite this amulet is only used by 2-3 classes in the current PvP meta. More laughlable even is the remove of the soldier amulet, one which was barely used at all by any class before the Chronomancer bunker did arise.

So, instead of tweaking the skills and traits of those classes to prevent the excess of sustain or damage in combination with celestial/soldier amulets, they remove those stat combos from PvP. Well, that will not prevent the unbalances in WvW (not like that this dead part of the game bothers Arenanet, but I think that you understand what I’m saying).

Arenanet SHOULD NOT base their balance decissions on the forums; they have a Pro League with 80 players and is very easy to see which classes and builds are underused and therefore which balance fixes must be done.

I must remark that none of the announced changes will affect me personally. I don’t play any class using celestial amulet (I use marauder with DH and Berserker, and carrion with Herald and Reaper). Smite Condition will not replace Contemplation of Purity in my skill bar despite the SC buff due SC isn’t a breakstun and breakstuns matters more in PvP than being able to remove conditions more often. So I’m not biased about the changes (equally, I don’ty care about the nerfs on the Rev’s sword and hammer, because mace and axe are the main sorces of damage from the character).

So, keep defending the clueless of Arenanet “balancing team”; we already known that raids are runned by less of the 1% of the players, and WvW is in critical condition in most of the servers, dungeons are dead and fractals are going in the same way. The game is in a WAY WORSE state than a year ago, but for some reason some people keep excusing Arenanet’s mistakes and blaming other players about the problems of the game.

I think that I’m done about the subject. I almost entirely stopped to play WvW two months ago, and PvP is the only thing that keeps me in the game, and the mismanagement of this beautiful game is making me sad.

Obtena.7952:

Buran.3796:

You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..

Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?

The problem is not the stats in the amulet, but the balance in the skills and traits of each classes. But fixing that demands time, testing and the use of -several- brains.

Removing the “problematic” amulets from PvP could provide a temporal sense of success, but it’s a mirage: the problem of balance still will exist (as example: in wvw roaming).

So, after that remove, you still will have 0 chances against a celestial Tempest or Chronomancer using your Guardian/DH while roaming, due those stat combination will still exist, but the issue will NEVER be fixed because at the eyes of Arenanet “celestial amulet was deleted, case closed”.

As I said before, this kind of mentality of deleting things instead of trying to rebalance them is a mistake; thanks to water combat almost entirely banished from PvP and WvW they felt that releasing the Revenant with most of their legends with five nice underwater grey boxes instead of skills was acceptable. And isn’t; is like saying:

-Arenanet: “Hey, we heard that your elite skills are OP, so we figured out a solution”.
-Random player: “So you will fix it, perhaps rebalance it”.
-Arenanet: "No, that was a headache; instead we will disable the “0” in your keyboard each time you chose to run that class".

Kamara.4187:

After reading this I became pretty depressed with how accurate it is :S

Coming back to the “pattern” theme, they already have announced their way to “fix” the problem of the excessive sustain in the meta:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-to-PvP-Runes-Sigils-Amulets

Essentially they will remove from PvP those amulets:

Soldier’s
Settler’s
Celestial
Sentinel

You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things.

Not shocked at all, taking in consideration that they did release the Revenant without water skills in 3/5 of their legeds.

Arenanet has an awesome combat system, but they are progressively, relentlessly turning their chess game it into a checkers game. Call me biased, but the neutering system of traits they did adopted in June wasn’t to make the things more coherent or easy to handle for the players, but just to make things easier to control or remove from the game for Arenanet.

The have literaly dozens of amulets just in PvP, but they are unable to make them relevant outside 4-5. The same with dozens of traits, some ENTIRE trait lines and whole skills. Guardian/DH will stay irrelevant at least until summer…

Artixera.5107:

AGGabriel.9230:

they have done it ……
THEY HAVE RUINED THE GUARDIAN/DH AGAIN what is next LB 2, DH spear of light(pull) , burning ?

I dunno what part of the game you’re talking about that ruined DH, PvP?
I got Legendary as DH only in this bunker meta so the class can’t be that useless just because they lowered some daze and test of faith dmg.

Reaching legendary isn’t a prove of a healty status for guardians; most of players in the league are randoms fighting without coordination so anyone can be carried. Not a single guardian in use in the 80 classes of the Pro League is a more accurate reminder of the true of our value. Same for thieves and warriors. I bet guardian/dh will not be competitive in the first half of 2016.

This is my current gathering track:

In December I was using a mix of iron + platinum, due the price of both were over 3 silver coins x unit; farming ore in 5 maps/locations. Due I have 11 characters and each one collected ~75 ores along ~8 minutes, it took me around a hour and half a day to complete the old rute. I gained over 750 net gold coins and bought Dawn last month just using this method.

Now that iron is well above in price I did change to this new gathering track, which is more fast (~5 minutes x character) and provides better value.

Alternatively, for player with a low number of characters, I woudl recomend to gather hard wood log…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hard_Wood_Log

…in a few sub level 80 maps (mostly Timberline Falls, Sparkly Fen Mount Maelstrom and Fireheart Rise); wood requires to cover more distance, but has the advantage that those trees respawn is very fast, so starting in one of those maps and moving to others after a hour or so you can return to the first map with the same caharacter and collect the trees again.

The greatests benefits of the gathering system is that doesn’t rely on other players, is not demanding in gear or skills or classes (albeit I recomend guardian or thief if you’re limited to one character) and is very modular (you can change your tracks and the items you gather based on the prices in the market).

^ Then accept that some traits/skills from the Guardian/DH are just there to became a fossil. Spiritual Weapons and signets are just a joke and never worked as intended so let Arenanet just pass page and nuke them all. I’m fine about the idea; also, let Druids and Tempest to replace the bunker/support role Guardians had in the past.

Instead of nerfing some useful assets (traps, longbow) that CLEARLY didn’t make a dent in the most demanding departments in the game (competitive PvP, raids) they should work in making the sword, hammer and shield into something remotely usable.

sasoriaka.6348:

Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.

Can’t you see the pattern?
Thieves and warriors, aka guardian’s breakfeast, are getting buffs.
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.

You guys don’t give a kitten about the big picture. You are comparing an imaginary nerfed guardian to the present meta.

The problem is, we already SAW how Arenanet “solves” the problems they struggle with:

• Aquatic combat unbalanced? No problem: remove water combat! No more water in PvP, WvW pools reduced to ponds and no new scuba phases for Guild Missions. No new water legendaries, also. Problem solved!

• Dungeons being too easy or the boss mechanics too repetitive and boring? People stacking and buffing like crazy? No problem: nerf the rewards from dungeons so hard that they become irrelevant! See: another problem solved, duengeons no longer bothers the players.

• People trolling and being salty at the WvW matchup forums? Nuked! No longer a problem.

• WvW population/servers too unbalanced, huge PPT disparity, massive blobs ganking you at your respawn? No problem: new shiny, huge, void maps with auto-upgrades with no tactic relevance and mediocre rewards! Now most of servers are equally dead; another great fix.

So I see the pattern: whenever Arenanet has a problem with the opinions or complaints from their customers, instead of trying to solve the problem, they erradicate the promblem.

They can nerf it a bit so Warriors and Thieves no longer would be able to argue that they are the worse classes in PvP…