Do you really believe it would be reasonable to just remove all Ascended equipment from the game tomorrow given the hours that hundreds of thousands of people put into getting them?
I do.
But I also understand that not everyone will agree with me.
Which means it shouldn’t and couldn’t be implemented – glad we got that sorted.
group 1 people would have no reason to be upset
Unless you count having someone take away something you worked for as a reason to be upset – do a bit of thinking xD
Do you really believe it would be reasonable to just remove all Ascended equipment from the game tomorrow given the hours that hundreds of thousands of people put into getting them?
Actually it means the opposite xD If Ascended Armour takes a bit of time that gives people something longer term to go for but also not infringing too much on others’ ability to keep up.
Don’t you understand yet?
But you’re saying that the points aren’t enough that people should really care about them, so why care about keeping them away from people? If they make so little difference, then why not just let people have them so that they don’t have a reason to worry about it?
Because some people want them for something longer term to go for – I just said this… Lots of people dropped from GW2 after launch with the problem of “nothing to go for” so Ascended was put in.
Lets say there are 2 sets of people A and B.
Set A wants something longer term to go for, Ascended Armour gives them something to strive for over time (this set exists as shwon from early leaver in GW2 and even by my presence alone makes it nonempty).
Set B don’t like having to get the very pinacle to compete within reason (this set exists by your existance).
Ascended Armour gives something to both these sets; +20 primary stats and +16 secondary stats gives a little extra to strive for but will not force separation.
You want to force the game for only set B and I am saying sets A and B are accomodated – which they are.
I just came from WoW after playing it for around 1 month, i usually play it 1-2 months every other year, and every time after trying to complete as much AP as i can and try as much different things as i can, i always come to the realisation that.. “Why… Why am i doing this? Do i get Achievements in real life by doing them here, no, do i get anything from it, no, is it worth all that hundreds upon hundreds of hours to complete, no”
………………….Not just gearing up (Which i agree should take time, not like in Gw2) Building up your character should take time.
But every little part of WoW is a huge grind, every little small thing is a grind….
That Gw2 has some grindy parts is okay, same goes for WoW, but it shouldn’t end up taking ALL your time for doing anything, if a game is that grindy, it lacks on several other aspects.So for me, legendary should stay legendary, and that SHOULD be a grindy part of the game… If i one day get one, most ppl would have one, that takes away the legendary status to a common one. I wouldn’t want that xD
English is not my native language.
Well, i agree with the first philosophical part.
The latter part: there is already as much grind as you wish.
Full ascended is not shorter than preparatory raiding gear..and legendaries won’t be shorter to get than full raid-reward gear.there is no evident direct correlation between between the 2 parts, though.
You’re forgetting you need to do the preparatory grind for WoW for each new raid tier and each new expansion, GW2 you do it ONCE. I personally have been “raid ready” for a year and a half gear wise – and as soon as you get to that stage you no longer need to do it again.
There is a big and obvious difference between getting raid ready in GW2 once and trying to stay raid ready in WoW (which is a continuous effort). I don’t know how you missed this…
I’m sincerely impressed the moot court has gone on with such enthusiasm, but we keep seeing references to a majority no one can prove and a majority that has never mattered in the first place because it’s not a democracy. Insert endless loop here.
To me the only real question these threads have to offer is ‘will they retain their vigor after HoT launches?’ I’m guessing ‘yes’, because the actual raids are still a few weeks out. But really I’m surprised the defenders of the status quo feel threatened enough to feed the fires this long. IF Ohoni is right then things will change, though not until long after the raids have been live and generated real use-case data. No one here is going to talk ArenaNet into changing course. And I think it’s fascinating to believe anything has been said here that wasn’t already considered behind closed doors when a path forward was being decided on.
I completely agree no one at Anet is hearing these arguments for the first time, the reason people are arguing against Ohoni and friends is to stop them generating an angry mob fueled with misinformation and madness. If you let bad ideas/idealogies fester and gather strength you can see mob rule breaking down good things.
Those six slots give +20 primary sta and +16 secodary stats, so are irrelevant as far as any barrier to content or victory is concerned. You are being dishonest by trying to imply they would be any sort of requirement.
So since those numbers are so irrelevant, it wouldn’t be a problem if they made Ascended armor far cheaper to acquire, right?
Actually it means the opposite xD If Ascended Armour takes a bit of time that gives people something longer term to go for but also not infringing too much on others’ ability to keep up.
Don’t you understand yet?
You log in once a day for one month for ascended amulet. Yes simply logging in. How is that a grind?
You do guild mission with your guild once a week for one month for both ascended trinkets. How is that a grind?
You do one fractal a day for about two weeks for both ascended rings? How is that a grind?
You spend 80g for an ascended weapon. How is that a grind?
The entitlement these days. People just need toughen up and actually play the game. It doesn’t promise to sell you BiS gear for free.
I notice you’re rather silent about six of the slots. . .
Those six slots give +20 primary sta and +16 secodary stats, so are irrelevant as far as any barrier to content or victory is concerned. You are being dishonest by trying to imply they would be any sort of requirement.
doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.
So those who play the game less should be rewarded by the game? Sounds genius.
Yes they retracted it, the tweet has been deleted. If you look at many of the threads discussing this topic you will see both sides of the argument confirming that.
Not. They did remove the tweet, and mentioned, that ascended is not actually required
This is the definition of retracted. Thanks.
Nope, because the tweed did not say “required”. It just said that the devs thought you will likely fail without ascended. Which hasn’t been in any way corrected.
If they never said Ascended was “required” then what the hell are you arguing?? Like seriously, you’ve tied yourself in a knot – your position is ridiculous xD
Its just inexperience, you need to learn not to panic.
Moa 5 will allow you to dodge while immobed, you get 2 dodges and a leap to try and get you to safety and your team mates can provide boons or pressure foes. This is all if it hits, you can avoid it like anything else – I would point out it has a very distinct animation (roll a Mesmer and cast it a few times in HotM to get it into your head).
Moa gets a lot of upset from new players but you’ll find as you gain experience it becomes very much less of an “I WIN” button and really requires a lot of coordination from the team to capitalise on it.
Yes they retracted it, the tweet has been deleted. If you look at many of the threads discussing this topic you will see both sides of the argument confirming that.
Not. They did remove the tweet, and mentioned, that ascended is not actually required
This is the definition of retracted. Thanks.
From September 27, 2011 Source
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.
Yeah, they unabashedly dropped that like a hot rock when they found out how many players would get to 80, put max progression gear in all their slots, play around another day or three and NEVER LOG IN AGAIN.
Add it to the massive list of ideas that a bunch of people who had never done an MMO before boldly announced would be a part of GW2 that they either couldn’t actually bring to fruition or proved flat-out wrong in the face of the market reality.
The true testament to ANet’s skill and survival instincts was how fast they jettisoned some of those high-minded and utterly toxic ideals.
Just responding to the comment that Anet, “NEVER,” said anything of the sort.
Not sure that I can agree that having everyone on an equal power base is toxic.
I concede “NEVER” was the wrong word, at the same time that quote was a year before launch and clearly the devs went in a different direction before and further still after launch.
So much salt, I love it when people whine about “grind” when you can literally do anything in-game that gives decent loot and get your ascended gear in a few months’ time, just with a couple hours a day. Top-tier gear doesn’t just fall out of the sky!
To be fair, from the way Anet described the game early on, it would seem that top-tier gear more or less was supposed to fall out of the sky. So if people are basing their expectations on early dev proclamations, then I can see why they would be mad.
Altho, at this point, people should prob work on getting over what the devs said 2-3 years ago. As they love to say in Game of Thrones, “Words are wind.” That’s the first lesson of transactions. Anything that isn’t written in a contract is potential BS.
Even stuff in contracts can be BS, but at least if it’s contract, you can sue the bejeezus out of people who try to stiff you.
The devs NEVER said high end gear would fall from the sky – they were infact SHOCKED how quickly everyone got exotics (look at the miserable drop rate for them, they did not expect dungeons to be knocked over so easily so quickly) that is why they produced Ascended.
Don’t rewrite history people that were there can point it out when you do, this is also the reason the Charr must never be forgiven.
Then 1) it isn’t gear-gated (I’ve explained this A LOT, Ascended Armour is +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stat i.e. irrelevant) and 2) I still think LS3 will be part of GW2’s future – but I don’t have more than an impression (but then neither do you).
If it’s irrelevant, why balance around it? (And how does one balance around something irrelevant, anyway?) Either it’s irrelevant, and not worth balancing around, or it is relevant, and a problem for those of us who haven’t been grinding dungeon runs for cash for the last three years.
Oh, I’m sure we’ll see more living story, and if the past is any indication, it’ll be pretty cool. The direction they seem to be taking the story has a lot of potential. It’s not what one could call highly-repeatable, though, and it’s definitely not (historically) something one’s likely to spend a whole lot of time in as a player. It’d be kind of nice to have other stuff to do.
They haven’t balanced around +20 Pri Stat and +16 Sec Stats and cannot do so (literally impossible to balance to that level of accuracy), if you’re refering to that SINGLE RETRACTED TWEET then the employee clearly spoke out of turn.
And I’m glad you agree that past behaviour from Anet makes it a good assumption that there will be plenty for ALL players to do regardless of Raids.
I hope thats cleared things up.
True, they can’t balance around the stat difference on a single item.
But it’s what, a 10% difference in all between exotic and ascended?
And they most certainly can balance around it (I mean really that’s basically what they said they did, not sure where anyone thinks they have legs to stand on arguing they didn’t)They retracted everything? The part about Top Tier Players in mixed gear could probably beat the first raid wing boss? Or the part about those people probably needing full ascended for the last boss?
They retracted all of that did they?
Can you post a link, or source? I missed that.As I said above, if the difference is truly insignificant then why indicate it was balanced around ascended? Plenty of people argue that if it were balanced around exotic people in ascended would make the content trivial.
Which is illogical, a trivial difference in stats cannot possibly make that much of an impact on the content.
Since it clearly can make that much of an impact on the content then the difference is not insignificant.
Yes they retracted it, the tweet has been deleted. If you look at many of the threads discussing this topic you will see both sides of the argument confirming that.
Ascended Weapons and Trinkets are pretty easy to get access to, Ascended Armour is the most expensive and THE WHOLE SET of Armour is +20 Pri Stat and +16 Sec Stats which is irrelevant – I am pointing out the “grind” isn’t there for anything that will affect the fight outcome.
You keep coming back to this RETRACTED tweet, stop basing your argument on something that can be discreditted by the numbers (as I did above) AND has been removed from Anet’s side (the employee just made a simple mistake and people jumped on it without even thinking). You do not need full ascended, you cannot need full ascended because its impossible to balance it around full armour contribution – and armour is the primary source of expense and grind.
I read the description as Gift of Maguuma WILL require Bloodstone Shard, thats just my interpretation but I would say it was clear to me.
If you’re unsure just keep the Spirit Shards.
Then 1) it isn’t gear-gated (I’ve explained this A LOT, Ascended Armour is +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stat i.e. irrelevant) and 2) I still think LS3 will be part of GW2’s future – but I don’t have more than an impression (but then neither do you).
If it’s irrelevant, why balance around it? (And how does one balance around something irrelevant, anyway?) Either it’s irrelevant, and not worth balancing around, or it is relevant, and a problem for those of us who haven’t been grinding dungeon runs for cash for the last three years.
Oh, I’m sure we’ll see more living story, and if the past is any indication, it’ll be pretty cool. The direction they seem to be taking the story has a lot of potential. It’s not what one could call highly-repeatable, though, and it’s definitely not (historically) something one’s likely to spend a whole lot of time in as a player. It’d be kind of nice to have other stuff to do.
They haven’t balanced around +20 Pri Stat and +16 Sec Stats and cannot do so (literally impossible to balance to that level of accuracy), if you’re refering to that SINGLE RETRACTED TWEET then the employee clearly spoke out of turn.
And I’m glad you agree that past behaviour from Anet makes it a good assumption that there will be plenty for ALL players to do regardless of Raids.
I hope thats cleared things up.
My original question could be rephrased as, “Is so-called ‘high-end’ (gear-gated) PvE the only type of activity that’s getting ongoing dev time after HoT release? That’s the impression I’m getting from the marketing releases, and as someone who believes in GW2’s mission statement, it worries me.”
Then 1) it isn’t gear-gated (I’ve explained this A LOT, Ascended Armour is +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stat i.e. irrelevant) and 2) I still think LS3 will be part of GW2’s future – but I don’t have more than an impression (but then neither do you).
I agree with your points but not your overall statement, I think Anet does care about its community, players and game modes – they just are a bit slow about it (I think there probably has been a lot of time put into developments they change their minds on or moods in the community scare them from things or just them getting sorted what they want their game to be).
They are still learning what they want and what they are aiming for – but I think their heart is in the right place and the things we do get are usually pretty good (once they pick something and give it the focus and time it needs – LS2 really got better, Open World linking to rewards and events got better, LS1 once off events got better – Battle for Lions Arch was a great thing and I really enjoyed the Tower of Nightmares when it launched).
Not they don’t care just a bit clumsy.
“How often would this happen though”
On a daily basis, just like people are already getting kicked out of groups for a PERCEIVED lack of damage.
But htink of those who would no longer get kicked by that perception. DPS meters help to show idiots where the real damage comes from too. Everyone being more informed isn’t a bad thing.
I always found a DPS meter was an excellent teaching tool to help understand what was the best method of fighting in any situation, I know some people hate seeing proof that other people are out performing them but I personally find it useful.
Wouldn’t mind it being added.
Here’s a passage from the News Blog:
…the Gift of Glory, purchased with the new tradable material Shards of Glory that only comes from Player vs. Player reward tracks; and the Gift of War, purchased with a new tradeable material, Memories of Battle, that only comes from playing World vs. World.
Gotcha. It’s still going to be harder to obtain legendary items now though. The old system is still superior to this new one.
Incredible, all your problems were addressed but you still wanted to express displeasure at something so think ‘kitten it i’ll just complain with no foundation!’ What is happening to humanity?
Some systems aren’t for all players, this will be one of them.
But when systems aren’t for enough of the players then they go the way of the dungeons. If you like a system, it’s in your best interests to figure out a way to make it appeal to a large enough audience to keep it viable.
Lets wait and see how Raids go first instead of compromising the vision before they even launch, maybe?
Its not like ascended is that hard to get… Without farming anything I had enough bloodstone, dragonite, and fragments for a full set after just playing the game. People need to calm down. If there was content that required legendary gear I would understand, but its just ascended. You can always mix/match ascended and exotic too.
your perspective is based on what you were able to do by accident after many months of playing.
Ascended is ok as a long term goal you arent directly aiming for, that is how its aquisition was designed, except for fractals.
But that has changed. Now people need it in the short term to participate with their friends/groups/new shiny content.note that you could do fractals with zero ascended, and as you got better, and repeated content you got more of what you needed to progress.
point is, dont think of how you accidently got ascended over the last 8 months, think about what you would have to do if you needed a new set in order to play with your friends, with no built up resources.
New players, returning players, people who ignored ascended are all in that boat now.Is it cool to sit out of your friends new exciting adventures for a month, because you would hold em back?
If you would be noticably holding them back its not going to be because of gear, do your friends really not trust you over a pug with Ascended? Also if you had played with your friends who did Fractals over the last 2 years you wouldn’t be in this situation. Or if you just played over the last 3 years you would be reasonably comaprable to Ascended.
Stop making up problems that don’t exist.
do you really think everyone who they want to play this game has already been playing the game for years?
part of the reason they release and expansion is to get RETURNING PLAYERS and remarket to NEW PLAYERS and the player base specifically told many players DONT GET ASCENDED IF YOU DONT WANT TO DO FRACTALS.you keep on myopically looking at everything from your own perspective as a guy who has been playing some what consistently for a long time, that is not everyone who they hope to market this to.
They want new players who like raids
they want old players to come back to try raids
they want people who havent tried stuff before to try it nowascended aquisition is a large impediment to that.
And your assumption that people like to be the kitten guy in the difficult content is false. i have known many friends who quit doing something until they get the gear or level up, if they feel they are holding people back. You can tell them nah dont worry about it, but they dont feel comfortable being the gimpy guy.
lets make something clear, you will ALWAYS be more useful to your team in better gear.
Also, many of these guys arent just competing with pugs, they are competing with GUILDIES, there may be 20 other guys who want to do it, why should they put you in the group when you dont have the gear?
for real, start looking at things how they are, rather than perfect scenarios. Good design considers all the ways a system interacts with its users.
This is not about being for or against anet, this about objectively looking how the systems interact with each other and with players.
go tell your friend oh, you should have been playing the last 2 years when they are sitting out. Real ace move
You say I speak for myself but then choose to speak for Anet…
They made Raids for people that like Raids – they made endgame PvE not ‘just hit 80 stuff’ and they made it deliberately.
I was in a few Raid guilds in WoW, we were server 1st-3rd for 10man throughout Uld, ToC, ICC and all of Cata we NEVER asked a friend to sit out because of gear because we knew it was the skill of the player that mattered the most and we knew they would put the effort in to catch up (be that switching to an alt or coming back after a break). So don’t tell me about asking friends sit out… We had great success and did it with all our friends. You just don’t understand what Raids are or the people who like them – which is fine but don’t try and warp things based around YOUR insufficient experience and drive to Raid.
Once again you are only looking at how you experience things, or how you think people should use it, rather than how people can and will use things.
That type of thinking is what leads to exploits and unintended consequences.
Think how ALL players may interact with the systems
Some systems aren’t for all players, this will be one of them.
Think about all the players who do interact with it, will interact with it.
The only time designers can ignore how people interact is if they are sure they cant interact with it.
Thats why toys are labeled with age reqs, games with minimum requirements, etc.
If you let people interact, you have to consider how it works.
Raids are being actively promoted to the types i mentioned.
The ascended aquisition style is not currently working well with the objectives of raids, at appealing to those groups they are promoting raids to.Anyhow believe what you want. I hope the devs think deeper than you.
Actually Raids are being marketed to a subset of the people you mentioned (if I want to sell something to boys I will put an advert on TV even though I know girls will see it) and the devs have very clearly given their view on Raids.
I’ve already told you why Ascended gear isn’t a barrier and your continued declaration that it is stopping all these people gagging for raids but have shown no interest in getting Ascended and will be without the desire to get Ascended in future is just sad.
What wizard hat? There’s wizard hats in this game? SWEET!
I saw the thread title and thought “hmm I bet Excell posted,” POINTS RAVENCLAW!!!
Its not like ascended is that hard to get… Without farming anything I had enough bloodstone, dragonite, and fragments for a full set after just playing the game. People need to calm down. If there was content that required legendary gear I would understand, but its just ascended. You can always mix/match ascended and exotic too.
your perspective is based on what you were able to do by accident after many months of playing.
Ascended is ok as a long term goal you arent directly aiming for, that is how its aquisition was designed, except for fractals.
But that has changed. Now people need it in the short term to participate with their friends/groups/new shiny content.note that you could do fractals with zero ascended, and as you got better, and repeated content you got more of what you needed to progress.
point is, dont think of how you accidently got ascended over the last 8 months, think about what you would have to do if you needed a new set in order to play with your friends, with no built up resources.
New players, returning players, people who ignored ascended are all in that boat now.Is it cool to sit out of your friends new exciting adventures for a month, because you would hold em back?
If you would be noticably holding them back its not going to be because of gear, do your friends really not trust you over a pug with Ascended? Also if you had played with your friends who did Fractals over the last 2 years you wouldn’t be in this situation. Or if you just played over the last 3 years you would be reasonably comaprable to Ascended.
Stop making up problems that don’t exist.
do you really think everyone who they want to play this game has already been playing the game for years?
part of the reason they release and expansion is to get RETURNING PLAYERS and remarket to NEW PLAYERS and the player base specifically told many players DONT GET ASCENDED IF YOU DONT WANT TO DO FRACTALS.you keep on myopically looking at everything from your own perspective as a guy who has been playing some what consistently for a long time, that is not everyone who they hope to market this to.
They want new players who like raids
they want old players to come back to try raids
they want people who havent tried stuff before to try it nowascended aquisition is a large impediment to that.
And your assumption that people like to be the kitten guy in the difficult content is false. i have known many friends who quit doing something until they get the gear or level up, if they feel they are holding people back. You can tell them nah dont worry about it, but they dont feel comfortable being the gimpy guy.
lets make something clear, you will ALWAYS be more useful to your team in better gear.
Also, many of these guys arent just competing with pugs, they are competing with GUILDIES, there may be 20 other guys who want to do it, why should they put you in the group when you dont have the gear?
for real, start looking at things how they are, rather than perfect scenarios. Good design considers all the ways a system interacts with its users.
This is not about being for or against anet, this about objectively looking how the systems interact with each other and with players.
go tell your friend oh, you should have been playing the last 2 years when they are sitting out. Real ace move
You say I speak for myself but then choose to speak for Anet…
They made Raids for people that like Raids – they made endgame PvE not ‘just hit 80 stuff’ and they made it deliberately.
I was in a few Raid guilds in WoW, we were server 1st-3rd for 10man throughout Uld, ToC, ICC and all of Cata we NEVER asked a friend to sit out because of gear because we knew it was the skill of the player that mattered the most and we knew they would put the effort in to catch up (be that switching to an alt or coming back after a break). So don’t tell me about asking friends sit out… We had great success and did it with all our friends. You just don’t understand what Raids are or the people who like them – which is fine but don’t try and warp things based around YOUR insufficient experience and drive to Raid.
Once again you are only looking at how you experience things, or how you think people should use it, rather than how people can and will use things.
That type of thinking is what leads to exploits and unintended consequences.
Think how ALL players may interact with the systems
Some systems aren’t for all players, this will be one of them.
Its not like ascended is that hard to get… Without farming anything I had enough bloodstone, dragonite, and fragments for a full set after just playing the game. People need to calm down. If there was content that required legendary gear I would understand, but its just ascended. You can always mix/match ascended and exotic too.
your perspective is based on what you were able to do by accident after many months of playing.
Ascended is ok as a long term goal you arent directly aiming for, that is how its aquisition was designed, except for fractals.
But that has changed. Now people need it in the short term to participate with their friends/groups/new shiny content.note that you could do fractals with zero ascended, and as you got better, and repeated content you got more of what you needed to progress.
point is, dont think of how you accidently got ascended over the last 8 months, think about what you would have to do if you needed a new set in order to play with your friends, with no built up resources.
New players, returning players, people who ignored ascended are all in that boat now.Is it cool to sit out of your friends new exciting adventures for a month, because you would hold em back?
If you would be noticably holding them back its not going to be because of gear, do your friends really not trust you over a pug with Ascended? Also if you had played with your friends who did Fractals over the last 2 years you wouldn’t be in this situation. Or if you just played over the last 3 years you would be reasonably comaprable to Ascended.
Stop making up problems that don’t exist.
do you really think everyone who they want to play this game has already been playing the game for years?
part of the reason they release and expansion is to get RETURNING PLAYERS and remarket to NEW PLAYERS and the player base specifically told many players DONT GET ASCENDED IF YOU DONT WANT TO DO FRACTALS.you keep on myopically looking at everything from your own perspective as a guy who has been playing some what consistently for a long time, that is not everyone who they hope to market this to.
They want new players who like raids
they want old players to come back to try raids
they want people who havent tried stuff before to try it nowascended aquisition is a large impediment to that.
And your assumption that people like to be the kitten guy in the difficult content is false. i have known many friends who quit doing something until they get the gear or level up, if they feel they are holding people back. You can tell them nah dont worry about it, but they dont feel comfortable being the gimpy guy.
lets make something clear, you will ALWAYS be more useful to your team in better gear.
Also, many of these guys arent just competing with pugs, they are competing with GUILDIES, there may be 20 other guys who want to do it, why should they put you in the group when you dont have the gear?
for real, start looking at things how they are, rather than perfect scenarios. Good design considers all the ways a system interacts with its users.
This is not about being for or against anet, this about objectively looking how the systems interact with each other and with players.
go tell your friend oh, you should have been playing the last 2 years when they are sitting out. Real ace move
You say I speak for myself but then choose to speak for Anet…
They made Raids for people that like Raids – they made endgame PvE not ‘just hit 80 stuff’ and they made it deliberately.
I was in a few Raid guilds in WoW, we were server 1st-3rd for 10man throughout Uld, ToC, ICC and all of Cata we NEVER asked a friend to sit out because of gear because we knew it was the skill of the player that mattered the most and we knew they would put the effort in to catch up (be that switching to an alt or coming back after a break). So don’t tell me about asking friends sit out… We had great success and did it with all our friends. You just don’t understand what Raids are or the people who like them – which is fine but don’t try and warp things based around YOUR insufficient experience and drive to Raid.
SW is hardly “broken” … while the income from doing it is considerable, most of that is from selling loot / materials to other players, which, as John Smith pointed out, does not introduce any new money into the economy, unlike flat gold rewards.
He also said “scarcity is important,” tell me SW Chests helps scarcity.
I do hope they nerf SW Chests when HoT goes live though.
I don’t, that would suck instead of nerfing SW they should make the new zones have more attractive loot, like a decent chance at a charged lodestone (only got eight from the countless times I ran Silverwaste.)
SW Chests were a distraction to keep people logging in over the void before HoT releases, their use has come to an end. Let them go – they are giving people 100 champ bags an hour for running in circles thats per person, per map – running in circles is easier than any HoT map and I doubt they would make something so broken again.
I do hope they nerf SW Chests when HoT goes live though.
Remember he is meaning from the ECONOMIC perspective, they are reducing the money earned at the end, this is because you would feel obligated to run as many dungeon paths as you could every day and demand the most efficient setup because you were doing so many paths. If you enjoy dungeon content its not being harmed, just the ECONOMIC incentive is being reduced.
I found myself burning out on dungeons quite a few times. I hope they reduce the SW chest farm too though.
You do know you’re getting a whole new story arc and 4 maps to play in, right? Its your own choice what you play and what you don’t, HoT has a variety of things and its really unreasonable to say you aren’t getting enough when you choose to exclude yourself.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Coulter.2315
You got 2 years of play for $70, type /age into GW2 chat and tell me you didn’t get value for money.
It doesn't make any sense. It just doesn't.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Coulter.2315
The devs know what’s coming, they know the new reward structure – you don’t – just wait and see.
Its not like ascended is that hard to get… Without farming anything I had enough bloodstone, dragonite, and fragments for a full set after just playing the game. People need to calm down. If there was content that required legendary gear I would understand, but its just ascended. You can always mix/match ascended and exotic too.
your perspective is based on what you were able to do by accident after many months of playing.
Ascended is ok as a long term goal you arent directly aiming for, that is how its aquisition was designed, except for fractals.
But that has changed. Now people need it in the short term to participate with their friends/groups/new shiny content.note that you could do fractals with zero ascended, and as you got better, and repeated content you got more of what you needed to progress.
point is, dont think of how you accidently got ascended over the last 8 months, think about what you would have to do if you needed a new set in order to play with your friends, with no built up resources.
New players, returning players, people who ignored ascended are all in that boat now.Is it cool to sit out of your friends new exciting adventures for a month, because you would hold em back?
If you would be noticably holding them back its not going to be because of gear, do your friends really not trust you over a pug with Ascended? Also if you had played with your friends who did Fractals over the last 2 years you wouldn’t be in this situation. Or if you just played over the last 3 years you would be reasonably comaprable to Ascended.
Stop making up problems that don’t exist.
Guys they have lots of data and been running models and are likely to have economics and maths degrees or doctorates. Its crazy to shoot them down when you really don’t have access to the information, knowledge and expertise they do.
Wait and see.
An economist has training on economy. That doesn’t mean he knows didly squat about fun in an mmorpg. Running models with lots of data won’t tell them didly about fun either, no matter how many math degrees or doctorates they have. It’s not always the best option to base your game around the economy and not about people having fun.
Erm… They are there to keep the economy steady so that gold doesn’t spiral out of control. The fun bit comes from other departments, yes they link up but you cannot ask that control over the economy should be aimed at creating “fun.” And yes their degrees and doctorates and models and data do give them a better perspective over the economy than the people in this thread. (PS. they also know whats coming next – none of us do)
I’ll say to you what I said to Behellagh
It’s possible to want to have just a ‘little bit of peril’ without having him come charging over and dragging us away to save us from it, whether we wanted him to or not.
In other words. Anet is too heavy handed on the economy and thinks of the economy first. Fun is a distant second.
They are focussed on the economy first because the player base is focussed on rewards first. Fun is a distant second.
Is that the players or the game though? I played Guild Wars 1 for years. I don’t remember this intense fixation on getting the plat in there from the players. I’m sure there were rich, rich players. But it didn’t seem front and center like this game.
Do you not remember Plat being worthless and everything being traded in Ecto and then later you would trade DoA weapon tokens. The economy went out of control – I don’t think people understand how important a good economy is for fun. Again I will say; they know what’s coming. <- reading something and saying “oh noes everything will be broken” when THEY know the new reward structure coming with HoT and you don’t is just ignorant doomsaying.
The difference I’m talking about though is not how much plat people had or how expensive things are but how much time people seem to spend obsessing about wealth in this game as compared to that game. People spend a lot more time thinking about wealth in this game and I can only conclude it’s how the game is set up. Something about it makes people fixate on making gold.
Or the people playing are more materialistic and concerned with money – remember we’ve had an IRL global recession and the culture of twitter and facebook where bigger numbers mean good things – being special and measuring yourself against everyone with a number. Also in GW1 you were younger as was I and we may just not have been looking – lets be honest though the main capital city running was just a horde of trade spam (and it was all in ecto, which is something they are trying to avoid here).
Guild Wars 2: Grind of Thorns?
I enjoy reading the articles posted on the front pages. But, I really got totally lost in the description of what a player needs to do to obtain a legendary weapon in HoT. Not only it seems convoluted as described in words (maybe a small VISIO diagram would have helped), it also seemed that the main objective of the designers was to slow down players from obtaining these desired items rather than to create a satisfying feeling of achievement.
I honestly believe the entire mastery system is a layer of grind and on top of that grind, now we have map and fractal grind, and on top of that WvW grind, and it does not end there, sPvP grind for shards of glory.
My simple question to ANET, why are you trying to create a grindfest in a game that simply does not need one? Why are you trying to do that every other MMO ends up doing — adding layers of grind to create pseudo-content?
Before we get the first post discrediting this OP by usual argument about working hard, casual player, blah blah bullkitten, screenshot attached to counter some of the usual nonsense. Yes. I played this game. A lot. And still do.
You seem to have confused ‘grind’ with ‘progression.’ They have stayed away from level cap increase to keep all your gear current but you need to replace that with a way to improve your character for the expansion – this is done with Masteries. This is not grind, this is character progression. (If you say “grind” means gaining experience by playing the game or doing fractals then you need to think what you could describe as “not grind,” I bet your list is small – so your definition of “grind” isn’t great)
Guys they have lots of data and been running models and are likely to have economics and maths degrees or doctorates. Its crazy to shoot them down when you really don’t have access to the information, knowledge and expertise they do.
Wait and see.
An economist has training on economy. That doesn’t mean he knows didly squat about fun in an mmorpg. Running models with lots of data won’t tell them didly about fun either, no matter how many math degrees or doctorates they have. It’s not always the best option to base your game around the economy and not about people having fun.
Erm… They are there to keep the economy steady so that gold doesn’t spiral out of control. The fun bit comes from other departments, yes they link up but you cannot ask that control over the economy should be aimed at creating “fun.” And yes their degrees and doctorates and models and data do give them a better perspective over the economy than the people in this thread. (PS. they also know whats coming next – none of us do)
I’ll say to you what I said to Behellagh
It’s possible to want to have just a ‘little bit of peril’ without having him come charging over and dragging us away to save us from it, whether we wanted him to or not.
In other words. Anet is too heavy handed on the economy and thinks of the economy first. Fun is a distant second.
They are focussed on the economy first because the player base is focussed on rewards first. Fun is a distant second.
Is that the players or the game though? I played Guild Wars 1 for years. I don’t remember this intense fixation on getting the plat in there from the players. I’m sure there were rich, rich players. But it didn’t seem front and center like this game.
Do you not remember Plat being worthless and everything being traded in Ecto and then later you would trade DoA weapon tokens. The economy went out of control – I don’t think people understand how important a good economy is for fun. Again I will say; they know what’s coming. <- reading something and saying “oh noes everything will be broken” when THEY know the new reward structure coming with HoT and you don’t is just ignorant doomsaying.
Guys they have lots of data and been running models and are likely to have economics and maths degrees or doctorates. Its crazy to shoot them down when you really don’t have access to the information, knowledge and expertise they do.
Wait and see.
An economist has training on economy. That doesn’t mean he knows didly squat about fun in an mmorpg. Running models with lots of data won’t tell them didly about fun either, no matter how many math degrees or doctorates they have. It’s not always the best option to base your game around the economy and not about people having fun.
Erm… They are there to keep the economy steady so that gold doesn’t spiral out of control. The fun bit comes from other departments, yes they link up but you cannot ask that control over the economy should be aimed at creating “fun.” And yes their degrees and doctorates and models and data do give them a better perspective over the economy than the people in this thread. (PS. they also know whats coming next – none of us do)
phys;
Coulter’s and My thesis is that the design limitation is, at best, exaggerated.
You seem to both believe it’s going to be a serious barrier and to be mad about it. It ends up feeling like borrowing offense.
Coulter doesnt seem to be responding to what i say but what he thinks i mean. Or what he believes my agenda is.
I have known many players who specifically avoided getting ascended because it drained the fun out of the game for them.
In the past at least i could tell them, well you only need it to repeat high end fractals.
This no longer applies.
The fact that its doable is less relevant than what is expected. Many players including those that do raids will first seek to maximize their mechanical advantage when confronted with challenge.
Problem is ascended aquisition is bad. It only functioned as a long term prestige dont worry about it goal. When you actually are expected to have it, it will be incredibly frustrating for a lot of players.
Like i said i knew many many players who hated ascended crafting, didnt want to join large premade guilds, and were annoyed by having to clock in for dailies or fall behind.
Well I already spent a long time telling you WHY Ascended Armour (the main cost of Ascended) is not going to influence outcomes. As for those people who “don’t like Ascended crafting and don’t join guilds” I can only say – Raids were deliberately design without those people in mind and quite right too.
If you’ve not been bothered to do high end pve for 2 years (probably haven’t done Fractal 50 with zero Ascended) then why the QQ? You don’t even like this content.
Guys they have lots of data and been running models and are likely to have economics and maths degrees or doctorates. Its crazy to shoot them down when you really don’t have access to the information, knowledge and expertise they do.
Wait and see.
This probably means they are moving to a game with very limited UW combat for the future – and I can’t say I’m upset.
You guys clearly weren’t there at GW2 launch then, back through the mists of time there were no free Badge of Honour ooooo spooky you had to go do WvW to get your Gift of Battle.
They are returning to what they originally intended.
I love how when a group can’t down a boss on their first or second try in a beta = Must have Ascended.
content designed based on ascended
+ the best groups needing 5-6 attempts ON THE FIRST MINI BOSS
+ everyone having access to any ascended gear set they want on demand
+ many groups failing after 2 hours, even with ascended ON THE FIRST MINIBOSSS= why are you dragging the team down by not coming with the best stats you can, we failed 4 times already quits team and starts new one with gear checks instituted.
mathematical need isnt really going to come into play.
requiring everyone to have ascended basically ensures better chance of success, and less mastery required to succeed, which makes it a feasible request.most people arent willing to fail 2-3 more times hoping everyone gets 10% more effecient after failing
It’s the first day of brand new content. If there were teams that were taking less than 5-6 tries on a 1 day old boss in a new game mode then the content is too easy.
irrelevant.
point is, if you take 5 to 6 times, you will likely take at least 6-7 times if you have to be better at the game to achieve the same goal
that translates to more time wasted.which translates to players not wanting to take people who arent the best they can be. People letting an exotic guy join will be the exception, not the rule. Therefore saying you can beat it in exotics is not that relevant. Most people will have to get ascended before people will seriously attempt raids with them.
which is actually what anet figured when designing them. player psychology is an important part of game design.
lets cut to the chase, lets bet, i bet that ascended will be the meta requirement for raids by and large, are you saying that it wont be the case?
If you think Raiding that involves wipes is “wasting time” you really are not interested in Raiding.
If you worry about not being let into groups asking for Ascended then 1) get Ascended 2) don’t join those groups.
that is bullkitten i finaly gathered gift of mastery what the hell am i suppoused to do with it i want twilight and you are telling me i wont need it?
Twilight will still require Gift of Mastery, the NEW Legendaries will require different Gifts.
It was kinda your own fault thinking you could walk out with a new Legendary immediately – of course they were going to make HoT Exploration be the requirement for HoT Legendaries. They stated very clearly that the new Legendaries would be a journey – not just emptying your bank on patch day.
When they removed hexes they did reduce the variety from the game.
ASCENDED ARMOUR WILL NOT AFFECT EVENTUAL OUTCOMES OF GROUPS, PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT GEAR IS A BARRIER ARE LIARS OR IDIOTS.
Hi, I’m a practiced raid leader in other games. While I expect Anet to generate little more than cakewalks that almost coincidentally take 10 people, the way the term ‘raid’ is used in the larger MMO gaming universe bringing every single percentage point you can muster is just common courtesy when raiding — until you have it dialed in.
You run your groups how you like. No one will stop you. But don’t look stunned if other groups have higher expectations on the preparation of their members. And given the highly variable skill level of pug-raids, every percentage point counts.
So your point is that people who aren’t that interested in being fully prepared for Raids will have a harder time completing them? I agree but it is that ATTITUDE and not their gear that will be the main problem. Lets stop pretending that people with an extreme drive to do Raids and be the best at doing this content but refuse to get Ascended and use Food/Utility buffs exist, they don’t and saying we should try to accomodate these imaginary people is just an attempt to get the difficulty and skill requirements nerf’d.
Gear is not the barrier – just the mindset of the people this content was never designed for.
5%
So around 120 extra points of Toughness (armor and toughness being interchangeable).
Seems like it might come up in a constant damage environment.
You’re cheating again, trying to trick and lie to people (or are too lazy to count). Armour increase is +47 for Light with full Ascended and +60 for Heavy.
Why do people insist on lying in order to stir up support?
ASCENDED ARMOUR WILL NOT AFFECT EVENTUAL OUTCOMES OF GROUPS, PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT GEAR IS A BARRIER ARE LIARS OR IDIOTS.