Guild Wars 2

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I, myself like many players are feeling very dubious about these up coming changes. I think the only actual balance to them is that most professions are having their staple utilities/rotation taken away from them. Warrior hambow/sig are being reduced every patch. Engi turrets, necro burning and minions and mesmer clones have all been hit. They have said that they perhaps hit ele’s too hard and that thieve’s are in line for some quality of life stuff. I can appreciate that mesmers are upset by these changes, but if they changes did not occur when other common played builds/professions are being reduced it was only ever pushing mesmer back up the ranks to it’s old position of A class by virtue that all the S class builds had been demoted to A or B tier now. It appears clear this patch is about reducing vigor and dmg across the board in spvp and PvE. These changes have effectively done that, even though many of us don’t feel the right traits have been specifically addressed. This is nothing more than when warrior’s all complained mace/hammer hard hitters were “highly telegraphed” so therefore well balanced. Mesmer shatters are not well telegraphed so something was going to give. Like I said, at times there is windows with mesmers where you are no longer actually engaged with them, you’re just reaching for the brass rings to get to them to resume engaging. That is in essence the cheese factor that is being refereed to. How many clones and phantasms/teleports/dazes/stun breaks/gaps closers and creators/cripples/small confusions/immunites/stealth/combo fields/chao’s armors etc etc that dmg you does a player have to go through to finally get to the mesmer?

Thank you, someone understands. I don’t want class being nerfed to the ground but i am personally sick and tired of going through armies of pets and pets and pets trying to reach player and do some dmg to them. There is so much going on screen as well, it is slowly becomes unbearable.

@Reesha: other classes have same issue if they go glass. What is your point?

ionix.9054:

ANET doesn’t care. You all will keep playing your thieves each patch. Until there is a dip in thief logins the nerfs will keep coming to appease the rest of the population.

sadly but true ._.

do this at lv 49

Doggie.3184:

That 2nd one was so dark it almost looked like Liadri from far away. XD

it is my pvp outfit, hard to see thieves in black hehe

OP you would wish you weren’t in my match yesterday
i am playing thief
got home since nobody wanted to
team wiped multiple times at mid
team runs to home, struggles to fight 1 guy for the rest of the match
i am trying to keep home or decap mid at least vs 4 guys from enemy team
all is vain ._.

Zacchary.6183:

I like Mobile Loot Bag.

i second that

we are certanly moving toward that direction heh

Leadfoot.9071:

Cynz.9437:

there is no dev playing thief as far as i know

i can confirm (saw it myself) they play mesmer, warrior, ele and engi…idk about other classes

Next time you go have lunch with them or whatever it is you do with them that allows you to know exactly what they do in the game, can you ask them when they plan to add new game modes? kthx!

i do pvp/wvw and i saw them playing those classes, doh

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Black Teagan.9215:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Giving elementalists a readily available way to debuff enemies with revealed would be a solid boon to the profession and introduce more build diversity.

NO!!

The only classes who should get Revealed are Ranger and Necros.
Eles have more than enough thief counters. Counters that works also against Nonstealth thieves.

What? Thieves are pretty hard ele counters.

eles can nuke thief as fast lol

thieves are already penalized
- while being chilled it is almost impossible to land backstab
- chill reduces travel distance of spells like HS by a lot, you won’t be able to land it on anyone unless target stands still
- every prof is CD based, once i used up all CDs i can switch weapon and have more CDs up; if i used up ini as a thief, switching weapon won’t do anything as i still don’t have enough ini to do anything meaningful with that weapon

honestly, stop crying for thief nerfs, they are already the beaten horse of the past half year

well i had good time watching dev play a thief in fractal preview

all he did was spamming unload and biting the grass 90% of the time

nice showcase indeed

Samhayn.2385:

I don’t think land speed by itself is really a problem for warriors, I think the problem is a lack of a flaw or weakness. Things like mesmers weakness to Condi burst or thief low surviabilty out of stealth, guardians and the choose of low damage or low survivability, necros lack of a way to deal with CC etc etc etc. You can find a weakness and use it against them as a class, this well roundedness of warriors seems to be to good and seems to cover everything.

pretty much this ^^

it is fine to have rock→ scissors >paper system but warriors have pretty much no weakness

Julie Yann.5379:

Condi builds aren’t that hard to dispose of if you are running the right power/crit build. Even with a 10% nerf to crit damage we will still be able to kill them without to much difficulty. A warrior with -condition food, melandru/hoelbrak runes, cleasning ire, dogged march, zerker stance, SoS, has nothing to fear from condi specs. Sure you have to put 20 points in defense to get all that but that still leaves you with 50 points to spec power/crit with your weapon of choice.

warrior is anet’s baby and can be hardly used as an example as it barely has any weaknesses

nicknamenick.2437:

IchigoHatake.5098:

sorry, but no, you are just trying to make warriors more op than it already is. Warriors lb pin down give 6 stacks of bleed and immobolize, use that with aa. If anet buffed aa’s speed it would make it way too powerful, lb has blind, immobolize, high dmg with aa, burning, making it one of the best weapons in the game, so stop complaining.

Whats high damage on AA? At most you crit both for around 700-750.. So you do a 1400-1500 hit.
If both hit and crit, but thats on 1,25-1,30 sec..

So thats a 700 damage every 0,65 sec…
now i would not compare this to a melee weapon where i hit 2k or more every 0,5sec.. But compare this to other ranged AA skills, and you see they can do almost the same damage (from both arrows) in just 0,5 or 0,75sec. Where it is between 1,25-1,30 for longbow warr AA.

This skill does lack damage if you count its casttime with it. Damage is good if its a real 0,75sec.

So no i dont need to stop posting this to share it with Anet, about thief aa on shortbow, there was a topic about that skill also. And i also mentioned this skill in a prev topic.

i will still insist, i will gladly trade warrior bow AA for thief bow AA that does like 300 dmg, doesn’t land on moving target ever and doesn’t give you anything

warriors do NOT have it bad dmg wise, warriors other longbow spells actually do considerable dmg and are really good for conquest as well, warrior longbow is main weapon for them and not a joke movement tool like for thief

warriors are melee class mainly, did you ever ask yourself why are they so tanky? so they can stay in close combat dish out dmg… buffing ranged dmg from warriors is just wrong… you are already too tanky, you are already doing really high dmg with ranged weapon, you want another buff? REALLY?

if anything warriors need considerable nerfs before any buffs atm

Shakya.6351:

Why Anet nerfed crits in a full condi meta? can anyone explain it?

because everyone ran zerker in pve, except this change won’t do junk to pve and just hurts wvw’ers

as far as condi meta goes, idk wth they are thinking, honestly… everyone been complaining about it constantly for at least half year and kept getting ignored

Thedenofsin.7340:

Giving elementalists a readily available way to debuff enemies with revealed would be a solid boon to the profession and introduce more build diversity.

no….

stealth classes have their survival and dmg balanced around stealth, if eles had revealed debuff on demand, nobody would play stealth classes anymore

besides meta is currently condi tanks + petting zoo, not stealth….

i don’t understand why spell that isn’t broken needs to be changed so drastically…

Terrahero.9358:

Sounds good to me. Far to many direct-damage and instagib one-trick-pony builds running around.

the problem is not even full zerker but for people who invested a lot of time and gold into getting sold/x armor + zerker trinkets and now it turns into garbage

“I love fighting condi tanks”

hey at least you didn’t get thief threatment

“we have great things comming for thieves”
" choke bomb poison will last 2 sec now instead of 3"
……okay

We were just disbanning party. But yeah it is annoying issue.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

them warrior haters just like to exaggerate things.

by the way, Rezz, you cannot farm arenas (solo or team) with hambow since necromancers, mesmers, engineers will farm your re-rolled warrior instead.

funny enough necros say that wars counter them thanks to CC spam

thieves can remove condis by traiting into desfensive tree…. oh noes

if that trait is so broken how come nobody uses it in pvp?

i have yet to see 1 thief soloing 8 people

from the story i saw your issues were:
- you had uplv, sry it is nothing more but punching bag
- if thief backstabbed war for half of his health than that war was prolly zerker, such dmg is to be expected then
- you all spammed aoe at once which really didn’t help as thief could have just shadowstep or just walk out of it and watch you waste aoe
- marks put condis, so does entangle, SA thieves can cleanse conditions so you actually didn’t do any dmg hence why he had full HP
- so in that time warrior didn’t even bother to get his HP back nor try to defend himself even thought he already backstabbed for 50%… since it was obvious that thief was going for war, he should have been more defensive and bait out thief
- by this time thief got at least 2 backstabs off, so it means he was sitting out of stealth for quite some time now…. what did you do to dmg him in those time frames outside of spamming marks?
- chaos storm doesn’t kill anyone it just puts condis on person and dazes him, since he was in stealth those applied conditions didn’t really do much outside of minor dmg; why would you assume he is dead?
- so basically he killed you all or at least bunch of you with CnD, the question is why did nobody try to dodge that?
- also you made major mistake, you actually bothered rezzing ppl… if thief went for tomp, it means he is in range of body, yes he can use shs for that but it is long CD, if he actually wasted it for stomp he doesn’t have any stun breakers; what you could have done is to daze/fear him while his was stomping ppl… also spamming direct dmg aoe really helps
- guard died to hylek really, idk what it has to do with thief himself tbh
- why do you randomly drop chaos field, you should use it when he gets backstab off and revealed debuff is almost down
- when thief was revealed it was good time to use CCs…why didn’t ranger use his roots?
- why is mesmer following alone thief when D/D thieves get free stealth off mesmers thanks to clones?

because warriors don’t do enough dmg rrright?

WANT THIEF SHORTBOW AA? i will gladly trade it for warrior AA

the sad part devs took it serious~

Proven.2854:

Dagger main-hand also gives you the option of using Heartseeker for movement.

Mesmers are the ones that really get screwed on Orb Running. Them and Necros.

HS spam while carrying orb is sooooooooooooooo slooooooooooow, you make mini steps compared to what warrior can do

mug is OP now? i saw everything now

hate me all you want, but i welcome less AI

Bug is still up, only thing player can do is jumping on same place. Help

EverythingEnds.4261:

Ok, I ll stop criticising CTF, until there is a better defined type of CTF we are talking about.

So:

Are we talking about
CTF: 1 Flag, both teams fight for it, or about
CT2F: every team has its own flag, which they have to defend, while stealing the other one

Maybe they could make the flag a like the Hammer on the fractal with the giant.
So you ware only able to carry it for a limited time.

Ok, one last critizism:
Wouldnt we end up (like in conquest) with team, consisting out of a lot of bunkers?
Think about it:
Bunkers have the most Sustain and probably a lot of condi cleanse and team support.
Make 5 of them walk together, supporting each other, it will be hard to CC them, Condis (especially Cripple, Immobilize, Chill) might be cleansened and if there are 5 bunkers, they either can rez up each other easily, or they might be able, that at least one of them survives long enough for reaching the goal.

to prevent that in wow tanks would take extra dmg actually; the problem is that it is hard to identify in gw2 if you are tank or not…maybe make it based on toughness?

WASN’T IT COLD???

sorrow.2364:

LOL
This guy doesn’t even know how he jumped on first position.
Like, he won one single match and climbed about 3500 positions.

Just tell us the trick already.

he actually does have good w/l ratio however amount of games he played is rather interesting compared to other players in top 10
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/de/eu/soloarena

if you look at the list you can see there are quite few people who got high ranked with very few matches; something is definitely fishy

nicknamenick.2437:

Aza.2105:

The skills warrior uses for mobility are suppose to be used for gap closers not escape mechanisms. Its probably a oversight by Anet, because if its not then they would be hypocritical to had nerfed elementalist for the same reason.

Rush, Bull’s charge and Savage leap should all require targets to use.

Why? You can blink away or blink in.. It works the same for savage leap/rush etc.. Not talking about rtl here. But every class has a way to get out or get in.. Is it with blink or shadowstep or other teleport skills or even stealth or other classes also have leap..

If you on use sword i dont see any problem.

If you only use gs i dont see any problem

if you use them both i do see a problem.. Now you suck and are made to run away

every mobility move you named doesn’t actually do dmg or very low in fact, those moves WERE designed for movement and some classes have to sacrifice utility slots for it; note how those classes are actually squishy and do need moblity to stay alive… war is far away from being squishy

i can bring an examples of gap closers that do dmg like GS but you can’t zoom around the map with it: shadow shot or inf. strike… they are both gap closers, both do dmg but are not moving you anywhere unless you have target in range

Jae.5138:

warriors ARE exceptionally good at orb carrying

but why the hell would they need to balance the game around orb carrying? some classes are just better at some things. what a pointless thread.

except spirit watch is soloq map and it all comes down to who has more warriors… either orb mechanics needs to be reworked or map removed from soloq rotation

the problem with all those spells is that in soloq you can’t just change utilities at will

if i run certain build those utilities will mean i mostlikely won’t be able to fight at all unless i make build only specifically for this map

wars for example, just need to equip GS and run usual set up

besides even if you make a build just for that map and run it, wars would be still 100% times more effective due to condi removal, invul, tankiness etc.; right now it all comes down to who has more warriors on team, sadly

i do think certain spells need to be reworked or orb mechanics themself; if someone wants to carry orb, let them but team should be motivated to defend him as well

i kind of agree with OP suggestion

Anet: hahahahah we all play warriors~
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/496005243?t=53m39

i have 2 dodges only, no vigor, nada.. i am doing ok as long as i don’t run inside fields of death called capture point x engi x necro.

as far as spammy abilities go, something should hit you at somepoint anyway or it would be unfair

what truly needs to be changed is how aoe works in pvp:
- aoe should be waaaaay weaker than single target dmg – it is only worth using aoe if you are fighting 5 people
- aoe should come at higher costs (longer CD, higher ini etc)

GW2 is only game i encountered where spamming aoe is actually a good things and comes only at low CD costs. In any other games spamming aoe was pointless as dmg was so low that it would be only worth on 5+ targets. Also aoe would costs recources, meaning if i spent mana/enery/xy recource on aoe i wouldn’t have enough for single target spells.

GW2 doesn’t have recource system outside of thieves lol, they are only ones that get punished for spamming aoe atm.

I am honestly not quite sure how to implemenet recource punishment on other classes that in fact don’t have it. Just a random brainstorming: spamming aoe uses small portions of life force or adrenalin, puts engi kit on longer CD, longer CD on ele attunement etc. But this suggestion might be bad so bear with me.

Bhima.9518:

EverythingEnds.4261:

Look how unbalanced the abilities to carry the orb on Spirit Watch around.
Do you realy want a whole Game mode based on this?

CtF might actually become Skyhammer2, as one of the big negativ aspects, always listet up witch Skyhammer is the bad distribution of “essential” skills (aka Knockbacks, fear, etc).
The Orb on Spiritwatch basicly provides the same.
Even ANet “admited” in the Ready up Stream, that it might be unbalanced. As long as they wand a Warrior (this isnt ment to be Warrior hate) to have the charactersitics of being “sturdy”, it means, that he might be a better choice for carrying the orb / flag.

Ever watched an average Thief* / Mesmer carrying an orb?
Probably not, as they either die withing seconds or drop the orb as soon they use one of their CLASSMECHANICS.

*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build”

There will always be better classes than others when carrying a flag just like there are better classes today that can bunker a point. A druid in wow is always the superior flag runner, but other classes are better at other duties such as recapture or support, etc. Ctf is a great game mode that should already be in gw2. If it is so imbalanced they can remove it from tournaments just like skyhammer.

as long as the person carrying the flag can’t just spam invul and speed moves, it is fine

as far as wow goes, yes druids were great at it but there were counters to it, druids didn’t go invul, druids could be CCd for fair amount of time, you could still catch up to them using mount etc. there were also limitations to what spells you could use while carrying flag and maps were pretty big too; my personal job in RBGs was always sit in our flag room on my rogue and make sure druid never makes it out of room alive

following things need to happen if CtF was implemented:

- long way between flag rooms
- limitation of spells that can be used while carrying the flag (aka no invul, no speed movement like GS, no stealth etc.)
- extra dmg taken while carrying flag: every minute or so, the longer you carry flag the more dmg you take
- (important) what this game lacks is way to satch up to flag carrier, in wow it were mounts for example… in gw2 i can imagine something like: while carrying flag you move really slow, the map contains speeds buffs that can be grabbed by anyone but the flag carrier; the longer you hold flag the slower you move
- multiple ways in and out of flag room so team doesn’t just block the only way
- certain terrain that allows you to maybe “ninja” behind main force and not just open field

Kargath.6598:

Cynz.9437:

Kargath.6598:

is this the complain about warriors month?

wars been too strong for past half year at least~

No it hasnt i dont know what you people are smoking, warrior is too powerful omg plox nerf, how many of you actually spvp and got a higher rank than 20 please, how many of you run anything other than cof path 1? What about melee rangers out there that are spirit spec in pvp and are unkillable.

here is a video for those who say rangers suck in pve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

There are zerker minion mancers out there that have 2 fears deathshroud, pets that heal on attack. golem rush with 1 minute cooldown with EVERY BUFF IN THE GAME!

good thief will use blinds and OVERPOWERED STEALTH against any warrior, being able to DISENGAGE AT WILL > EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME!

D/D ele’s will be even stronger after this coming tuesday.

There is a retaliation guardian build that destroys anyone that touches them while sustaining healing ohh and its a bunker build at the same time btw

Why is are there Q.Q posts about warriors all the time. ARENA NET PLEASE NERF THOSE CLASSES!

just to prove your assumtions wrong
- i am rank 34 currently, been around rank 300 in team pvp and 400 in soloq
- i run fractals lv 49 every day

MM necro has nothing to do with wars being too good atm and as side note, necros don’t have warrior moblity

blinds don’t work so well if you don’t sit inBP besides you got immunities; how is stealth overpowered? please elaborate

it is actually a myth that thieves can disengage at will, it is not as simple as people picture and doesn’t work 100% besides running away in pvp usually proves as a los of points

d/d ele is different story, still very squishy, still dying to condis, still has nothing to do with warriors being too strong and having everything

bunker build is not destroying anyone… they are only good at holding point….

people QQ about warriors, because right now warriors have too much of everything… there is no point in playing any other classes when you have all-in-one package with almost no weakness

People may argue but i do think some things are just broken. Game can be “perfectly imbalanced” as long as classes have trade offs. Right now there are certain classes that just have little trade off while other have way too high trade off. Rock -> scissors > paper doesn’t work atm. And that is the issue.

Kargath.6598:

is this the complain about warriors month?

wars been too strong for past half year at least~

there is no dev playing thief as far as i know

i can confirm (saw it myself) they play mesmer, warrior, ele and engi…idk about other classes

agree with OP as well

still looking

warriors on spirit watch make me want to uninstall tbh

they are only class that can grab orb, go invul and zoom across the map with it and nothing you can do about it

Invul, GS, blocks…. gl stopping them from getting orb.

Anet: hahahahah we all play warriors~
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/496005243?t=53m39s

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Take warrior..any build you like..play lvl 40 fractals with any healing skill you like. Get back to me on how OP they all were when your team is reviving you for the 17th time because they don’t heal enough/or they do heal enough but on way too long of cooldown. Healing signet at lvl80 is one thing..in dungeosn where your lvl capped..the 70 hp per second in AC ain’t much. In Arah the 410 per second is barely enough if, as a warrior your standing where you’re needed to down the toughest enemy quickly..however if you wanna play some sort of candy version of warrior and run around the edges and use range and let everyone tank the bosses where you should really being doing that, then yeah signet is going to seem good..which only illustrates that you’re either not a efficient warrior, or your actually playing a ranger just dressed as a warrior w/ a longbow.

this is pvp forums

i do lv 49 fractal every day on my thief that has crappiest heal ever, lowest HP in game and only 2 dodges and i don’t die, so please leave that crap out of here

Eric.1672:

Why does everyone hate sky hammer? Im not trolling. I mean there were BGs in wow that I couldn’t stand….but there is a large amount of hate in-game against hammer

because on that map you don’t pvp, you just spend entire match trying to knock ppl off edge and spam skyhammer; some classes are also awfully good at it

there is reason why capricorn isn’t in rotation, idk why skyhammer is when it has even bigger imbalance

Wait, i just realized why it got nerfed. Grouch got killed by Caed in 2v2 tourney xD

- nerf condi tanks
- remove skyhammer
- make spirit watch orb remove all your spells from bars while carrying it
- nerf AI doh
- allow to do soloq with 1 friend, team pvp can only be done with 5 ppl
- add pvp skins like zenith weapon usable in pve but obtainable in pvp only
- give karma or allow glory conversion to karma

etc etc etc

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

frans.8092:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It could be countered a bit by slightly improved stats for Toughness and health. ….

I see, that must be why Guardians and Warriors don’t need and have protection and blocking on their weaponskills.

Personally – Stealth > Blocking skills. You have access to stealth, what you shouldn’t have is access to stealth any time you like. Removing the Leap on Heart Seeker would go a way to stopping the multiple stealth’s and stealth attacks, especially Backstab.

Plus, you have PLENTY of evades and knowing most thieves they would just go to that sort of build anyway.

and what should thief do dmg with? AA? spam HS? great solution…

plenty of evades come only from acro/trickery s/d build, every other build has to waddle and has 2 dodges like everyone else… so we should all play kitten s/d and scrap every single weapon set and every other tree when we are at it…mkay