Guild Wars 2

duster.7013:

Then u solo lord… i mean how bad do u have to be to get solo bunkered as an entire team and still not get lord.

assuming you can make it far enough to the lord without getting zerged while your team is raging and afk’ing at spawn

Aza.2105:

Biased players shouldn’t discuss balance.

With that said, its a bit hard to deny that Unhindered Combatant might be a little bit over the top. On the opposite end of the coin, it does sort of have a cd since its tied to endurance. So once they run out they can no longer do it. But when you take into consideration a daredevil’s mobility, the ability to disengage and reset fights and the amount of other condi clears they have access to then Unhindered Combatant starts to look a tad bit too strong.

so does about every single elite spec…

incisorr.9502:

look at all these people talking about random crap on how to beat thief

• IT DOES NOT MATTER , THIEF CAN JUST ZERG YOUR TEAMMATES AND THEN ZERG YOU AND THERE’S NO COUNTER TO THAT **

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CAN BEAT/“OUTPLAY” thief 1v1 because the GAME IS NOT ONE VERSUS ONE and its not about killing either

its about capping points and +1ing when the skill levels get higher

the last patch buffed thieves even more, i just had a game with 5 thieves in ranked because why the kitten not?

i suppose the fact that there were no 10 people signing for ranked arena yday is a direct consequence to how overpowered and broken this class is

There are so many people playing thief because during the season they can’t do it (booohoo 2 thieves on team? team rages and afk’s).
It was always like this between seasons, i am surprised you didn’t notice it yet.
It is very possible that at your MMR so many thieves queued for the ranked, doesn’t mean that majority that queue are thieves…..

I would also like to point out that thief got nerfed this patch, at least the meta builds in pvp…. you should probably read patch notes.

On side note, i have won match yesterday with 3 thieves on my team and 2 on enemies. Could it be that you were there lol? Sole reason why that team lost is because they were raging at each 24/7 and spent more time spamming map chat than fighting.

duster.7013:

How do you only have 5 points with a thief on your team, rofl.

Thief is really OP, like really OP according to forums. Too bad when your team is perma dead and enemy is camping all 3 points, you can’t do anything as a thief.

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

This guy just throws words together in hopes of it making a point. You can’t even read through the sheer bias of his posts without rolling your eyes.

Even tho he (mains?) thief (biased) and I don’t (mesmer – not biased) I agree with him.
Thief is fine. Dash being able to break out of soft cc is exactly the point of running a thief. You want to be quickly in and out fights, from one point to another.

Take that away and you’ll take the role thief has away. Simple as that. If a thief doesn’t have an escape, he’s a sitting duck.

So by that logic, thieves that don’t use dash shouldn’t exist. Guess what? They do. So stop with the, “you’ll take the role thief has away” nonsense. They would still have the best mobility in the game and multiple ways to address immobilizes.

My perspective is not limited to a small amount of games on some professions.

Are you suggesting mine is? To be clear, neither is mine. Played since release, with a well balanced amount of games spread over the classes. With most of them on mesmer, obviously, otherwise it wouldn’t be my main.

That being said, name me one other meta build without dash that got used by thief since the release of HoT. (and nope, staff thief wasn’t meta)

The only thing that could make your arguments valid, is that when daredevil gets a nerf like that, everything else recieves a nerf as well. ONLY THEN a thief has enough mobility. Because back before HoT, you didn’t have all the power creep and aoe spam.

Back then thief had enough mobility compared to all the other classes. If you’d try that right now, there we are again, a sitting duck. If you struggle against a thief BECAUSE HE CAN CLEANSE IMMOB WITH DASH -> l2p. Please.

Your myopic view on how the game should be played is what stagnates it. The ability is not healthy for the game as a whole. Neither are abilities I would define as being over budget or bloated.

The fact that a single trait can render whole builds useless is a problem. ANY ability that completely negates builds should be looked at in depth and adjustments should be made.

And yet here we have reveal on multiple spells that delete entire traitline and class mechanics and i don’t see you on the fences asking for revealed nerfs.

And which exactly build does dash render useless?

Entenkommando.5208:

Hold on….because many things in this game are broken we aren’t allowed to ask for a start somewhere?

All i saw so far is “nerf teef plox cuz he runs away”, i have yet to see any suggestion from you regarding other classes that would make dash nerf reasonable.

Entenkommando.5208:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed
If this is all the candy you get your parents really don’t like you :/
Spear of justice and Detection Pulse are basically the only actively used skills/trait in that list.
I agree however that the passive AoE spam has gotten a lot worse since HoT and I’ve been against it from the very beginning.

You forgot revs… despite to change to mallyx a lot of revs still run glint.

I really wish steal would disable defensive traits and class mechanics for 6 sec on successful hit just so people would understand the problem with reveals on demand.

Rev alone were the reason why i stopped playing core on main account after season 1 – 6 sec reveal with 2 dodges = you are 100% dead (yeah sure, you should dodge reveal but so about 38403804802384 other spells, especially aoe, that can send you to spawn). It is a team game, if enemy team sees you, they will kill you. Reveal on demand should have never been a thing, they simply chose the lazy way for implementing it instead of adding new mechanic that would add some counterplay to stealth instead of hardcounter/shutdown to entire traitline.

SkipperCZ.6912:

rwolf.9571:

SkipperCZ.6912:

Caedmon.6798:

Great how people give up before it even starts.Amazing mentality.

Agreed. I would like to see God of PvP in action live. And against me to see his reactions, movements, rotations.
But in ranked play it can be problem – because I’m not that good and maybe I could be upset too. In unranked – why not.

Btw even Barcelona sometimes loose to 2nd league team ;-)

Yeah I just wish mm is more consistent. (Ever since the Quantity > Quality of mm change)

I knew it was pretty much over. It’s like a skinny guy fighting a pro fighter.

If anything. He would just stand there (perhaps even bored). Anytime I would atempt an attack he would instantly counter. Couldn’t even put a dent in this guy…

About mmr in ranked – I agree with you. It must be more consistend and ppl should face oponents from their tiers ONLY (or f.e. Higher silver x lower gold).

LOL they couldn’t fix silver facing legends for 2 seasons, i doubt they will fix it now.

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

That is why i said: make stealth more viable as survival tool (sup aoe spam, sup reveals) and there wouldn’t be issue nerfing dash.

@Entenkommando.5208: because mes is good example for immob that is not on long CD.
There is counter to boon corrupts – blinds, blocks, dodges, invuls, interrupts etc.
There is counter to unblockable skills – interrupts, dodges, invuls.
Immob is not counter to thieves specifically, immob is a condition meant to keep target in place, whether it is for peeling or to set up damage. Same as block is mean to prevent damage for example.
Once again, who says that immob should be counter to drd or thief for that matter? I think thief has plenty of counters as it is. The whole thematic of drd traitline is mobility + staff. Please give me one good reason why traitline that supposed to improve thief’s mobility not offer solution for immobs? Why do eles take water for example? To deal with condis and have some heals.

Immob is very much viable, just not vs thieves running dash. Same as headshot + IP is very much viable, just not vs enemies with high stab/blind/blocks uptime.

You are not supposed to stack immobs until drd is out of dodges, you can kill them without immob lol. Look at DHs that has been countering thieves for years – they don’t use immob really and they can easily kill thief.

DH actually has invul, blinds and can dodge to avoid unblockable attack, fyi. So yes, they actually do have ways to deal with unblockable attacks.

Ofc thief isn’t only class that has to dodge but thief is only class in game that can’t facetank damage and actually have to actively avoid it.

And why should i not name leap/swap? Once again, your whole argument was based on fact that immob spells supposedly have long CDs. Which is not true in case of leap/swap that is also most commonly used immob in about every pvp match.

Skittledness.5106:

Cynz.9437:

Skittledness.5106:

Cynz.9437:

Skittledness.5106:

As far as premade 5v5 team play?No absolutely not,ask anybody who’s relevant to the scene.

There is a scene lol?

Yes jebros hosting a tournament which has over 1k now In community funded prize money which brought back a lot of former pro players .

That is not a scene…. that is just one tourney.

But it was at least a start!
And btw can we keep the discussion balance related and not just trolls trying to delegitimizate what this thread was created for .

You brought it up. In your view only opinion of people that wintraded/farmed bronzies at 5 am for top spots matters and what happens in pvp every day is irrelevant, apparently. Sry to break it down for you, but 99.99% of pvp consists of pugs doing ranked and i think it matters more than handful of players minimaxing their comps so they can take part on some tourney 2 times a year. I still remain by my opinion that nerfing all elites was a step in good direction and we will see all of these classes in matches. If anything i think the balance is way better than it ever was since HoT launch. Even revs get some play now after heavy nerfs.

Skittledness.5106:

Cynz.9437:

Skittledness.5106:

As far as premade 5v5 team play?No absolutely not,ask anybody who’s relevant to the scene.

There is a scene lol?

Yes jebros hosting a tournament which has over 1k now In community funded prize money which brought back a lot of former pro players .

That is not a scene…. that is just one tourney.

Entenkommando.5208:

Or you use your signet to remove immob, or perhaps you play with the dodgeroll heal, or you teleport away with your shadowsteps which will likely make immob run out before they reach you again oooor…… Surprise: just dodge the immob to begin with. It can’t be that hard with a gazillion dodges, right?

Yep, here is prime example of a person that doesn’t play a thief but somehow thinks he is an expert. Thief does not have gazillion dodges. But they supposed to dodge everything somehow. Or blow really long CDs to deal with really short CD, yeah sure. You know immob is not only tool other classes have to keep someone in place. What else would you suggest?

P.S. just fyi, dodgeroll heal is called Withdraw and can’t be used when stunned/dazed which occurs a lot when you fight mesmer for example.

Skittledness.5106:

As far as premade 5v5 team play?No absolutely not,ask anybody who’s relevant to the scene.

There is a scene lol?

Forsty.7968:

Skills like dash arent good for the game. Something that can remove any movement impairing condi on demand is stupidly overpowered and nullifies some things completely. Do you like playing against the DH survivability mechanic? Now imagine that without any unblockable skills. Fun and interactive right?

Please tell me more about how the 3 dodge endurance bar with your signet of agility arent enough dodges to remove an immob at any time. If you seriously think that you must be using your dodges very wisely.

Even if the trait would have a 10s icd on immob remove it would always still be picked over bound as long as any movement impairing effects have an impact in the game. A trait that makes your dodges give you a damage modifier. Along with damage. Its like a good trait on steroids for any other profession and im talking about bound not even dash.

Before the mad thieves attack, im saying the trait is overpowered, not that thief is. Though thief is in a far better state than any of you think.

Remove reveal on demand, make stealth more viable again and we can talk about nerfing dash. Once again, the hell do you do as thief to stay alive? Every time i ask this question, i always get same answer “dodge” since thief can’t take more than one hit. But here you are complaining that thief uses dodges and has counter to condi that otherwise would prevent them from using dodge. Honestly people, why do you not get it? Thief doesn’t have 28k HP, endure pain etc. to just stand there like training golem and take them beating in the face but this is exactly what you are asking for.

Frosty, i know why you ask for dash nerf. So you can do your mesmer combo wombo without any timing/counting dodges etc. This has nothing to do with balance.

Shatter and shield skills on mesmer are not good for the game, they should be removed. They render player being completely unable to do anything. See, i can do it too.

Pretty sure we will see every class in so called “top competitive play” (does this even exist lol?). If anything elites need to see more nerfs so core could become “meta” and we would have more variety.

Now that i look at your class “analysis”, i don’t think you are actually serious.

PvP is playable without HoT. Of course elites just give you that edge hence why everyone picks it. Not all core builds work but you can do fine if you are decent and know your class/other classes mechanics. I played core thief to platinum on my alt account (doesn’t have HoT) without issues for example. I think core condi necro is a very viable pick actually. Don’t listen to QQ, if you are a good player, you can make core work. Honestly, i think you need elite specs only once you start facing top players where even tiny numbers make big difference. What class do you play?

As far as pvp goes, community definitely became smaller due to various changes to the system, long periods of class imbalance, removal of rewards/carrots etc.

I will agree that warrior is overnerfed when they will start getting reported for simply playing the class – which i don’t see happening as warrior is still pretty strong, especially considering that other classes got nerfed as well.

The nerfs were bound to happen. If you were half decent you could easily 1v2, 1v3 on war for ages if not even win those fights. There wasn’t a single counter to them (where for example necro countered engi, dh countered thief etc.) besides ganking them with multiple teammates.

Does it count as manipulated if we already knew it? (btw i don’t feel bad)

Messiah, no offense, but i really can’t understand half of what you post. I am really trying here >_<.

I have a feeling you never played before HoT. Or forgot that things like medi guards, signet thief, zerk war etc.

I will assume i understood correctly what you wrote.

The suggested change will be a straight out nerf to core thief for no good reason unless stuff like blocks, blinds, invuls, projectile hate, stab etc. get toned down. Atm, there is so much of that crap flying around, especially in team fights, that you can time your interrupts all you want, at least half of them won’t land. Having higher ini costs for 1/4 sec daze with 5 dmg and 50% chance of gaining bit ini back is terrible – it would force thieves even more into AA as it is already.
You know what is one of the most annoying things about thief? Is dealing with RNG. Improv that MAYBE will get one of your utilities off-cd. Backstab that MAYBE will land in the sea of passives and MAYBE will cirt due to crit chance and wonky being behind/being not behind positioning or just go on CD and lock you out of AA. Steal, shs and other teleports that MAYBE will work but might also spam you with NO VALID PATH TO HOPE on flat terrain. And you want to add more rng. Lovely!

Once again, everything you posted so far suggests to buff other classes and nerf thief because god forbid thief is top pick as roamer that it was designed for? LOL.

Let’s also make something clear. Before HoT some things were pretty imbalanced but it was somehow ok. With HoT stuff became really crazy, hello powercreep. If anything, nothing should be buffed until elite specs get nerfed to core levels. I don’t understand why powercreep should be added to core specs as well.

P/P for me is still in the same category as zerker sigil thief – you can kill someone really quickly but you are also free points for any half decent team.

They need to buff AA, remove unload and replace it with utility. As i said in other thread, the thing that all “meta” weapon sets had in common is strong AA which allowed thief to conserve ini so they could use it for utility spells like BP or headshot. With PP you have to starve yourself to deal dmg.

I would like to point out that quite few things (dmg modifiers, ports, high crits) you complain about existed basically since launch.

Huskyboy.1053:

Cynz.9437:

Headshot deals 5 dmg and applies 1/4 sec daze, it already costs 4 ini which is a lot for the spell that can’t be used while being stunned and applies such short cc. Take a guess why trickery is mandatory and thieves camp AA? Because they are ini starved and you want to effectively (due to absurd amount of blocks, blinds, stab, invuls etc. flying around) increase costs of the spell which will affect core build. Why?

You also want to give core mes alacrity? Really now?
You want straight out buff core rev?
And you want to buff core war. Why?
How about we nerf elites first before we starting buffing core builds?

Notice the trend. All your suggestions involve buffing other classes while nerfing thief. Biased much?

I think he’s trying to point out that giving back initiative for actually landing your skills was a big ol buff that thieves didn’t need. Otherwise I agree, these extra buffs would be ridic.

And i don’t think those changes are needed. Unload is different story. P/p is a terrible set and will remain being bad until it is completely redesigned. Issue was always that main damage is bound to unload which leaves you with 0 ini for everything else (not to mention terrible synergy between mh and oh) hence why they added that 2 ini return (which once again, will not make p/p “meta”, imo).

Look at “meta” thief weapons (dagger mh, sword mh, staff, sb), what do they all have in common beside sb (which is picked for port basically)? Strong AA which allows them to save ini for utilities. P/P doesn’t.

Kirochique.9186:

Can finally carry team with thief in mid fights, Either I’m getting paired with newbs every game or I’m on a very good win streak.

I wouldn’t rely on quality of matches atm due to people messing around with builds and MM being non-existent. Yesterday I soloed necro on the point while he was being “supported” by scrapper…. -_-’

Headshot deals 5 dmg and applies 1/4 sec daze, it already costs 4 ini which is a lot for the spell that can’t be used while being stunned and applies such short cc. Take a guess why trickery is mandatory and thieves camp AA? Because they are ini starved and you want to effectively (due to absurd amount of blocks, blinds, stab, invuls etc. flying around) increase costs of the spell which will affect core build. Why?

You also want to give core mes alacrity? Really now?
You want straight out buff core rev?
And you want to buff core war. Why?
How about we nerf elites first before we starting buffing core builds?

Notice the trend. All your suggestions involve buffing other classes while nerfing thief. Biased much?

Spartacus.3192:

Cynz.9437:

Spartacus.3192:

Cynz.9437:

Spartacus.3192:

but there is way too much CC around. I mean i use draining sigil in WvW and its broken as kitten

…and there are even more boon spam/generation. What is your point?

my point is that any class with decent access to CC should always be using these sigils because the rewards are just too good. Im not singling out thieves so dont get your panties in a bunch. I play war and i have a crap ton of CC and i would never trade my Draining sigil.

Im saying that interupt sigils should not even be in the game. They are just too OP.

And what is the alternative? They removed air/fire.

How is air/fire related? They removed those sigils to reduce burst damage. Nothing to do with interrupt sigils.

So on one side we complain here about thieves stealing 25 might stacks, on other hand we pretend removal of air/fire is unrelated…. I mean what else am i supposed to slot? Condi and swap sigils are out of question for thief for example since they camp 1 weapon set most of the time and play mainly marauder.

While i don’t agree with everything OP says, i also don’t understand why condi play is being forced down our throats. From thief perspective, the dev team continued to nerf power and buffing condi aspects of the class for years now, even those that are already stupidly cheesy and generate a lot of complains (hello trapper thief). Why not to keep them on same level is beyond me. The gameplay of condi may not be so enjoyable for some players, forcing them into condi will just make them quit. I certainly would if condi build became only option for thief.

Sounds like bug if what you said is true. I am surprised you got 22 min dishonor though, seems like it is not first time you left match/cancelled queue pop.

Spartacus.3192:

Cynz.9437:

Spartacus.3192:

but there is way too much CC around. I mean i use draining sigil in WvW and its broken as kitten

…and there are even more boon spam/generation. What is your point?

my point is that any class with decent access to CC should always be using these sigils because the rewards are just too good. Im not singling out thieves so dont get your panties in a bunch. I play war and i have a crap ton of CC and i would never trade my Draining sigil.

Im saying that interupt sigils should not even be in the game. They are just too OP.

And what is the alternative? They removed air/fire.

Entenkommando.5208:

Then I ask you: what do you see as a counter to dd? They are always moving, you can’t catch them, they can dodge (not as much anymore) almost everything.
So what is their weakness in your opinion if not having a very small window between their dodges to actually prevent them from running away again?

You can’t possibly tell me that thiefs only weakness is the players stupidity to not run away fast enaugh.

Ok, let’s take example of DH/guards that have been hardcounter to thieves since day 1. What do they have? High access to CC (including aoe), blocks(including aoe), instant hard hitting spells(including aoe), multiple gap closers/ports, now extra reveal as well.

Why do you think you are supposed to catch a thief as say bruiser that is meant to hold point/engage big team fights? Why would anyone play thief if it was easy to catch? It is not like they bring much team support, can hold point or engage big team fights. We all saw what happened when bruiser was capable to keep up with a thief (hello revs from season 1) – thief was obsolete and the very few players (including me) that did ranked as thief were getting harassed/reported nearly every match simply because they played the class. The thief ran away? Grats!!! The point is yours. It is not wvw, where potential loot bag got denied to you.

Spartacus.3192:

but there is way too much CC around. I mean i use draining sigil in WvW and its broken as kitten

…and there are even more boon spam/generation. What is your point?

It is not always completely correct or optimal, but it is a start when you have no clue at all.
https://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.3192:

just gonna say it again. Adding interrupt sigils in pvp was one of the more dumber things ANET pvp team has done this year. Having said that i will be using them because why would i kitten myself

the sigil is not the problem rather the easiness to cc chain at the moment

to reward player for a good play is a must imo. but rewarding a spamm player is not.

On the other hand, the interrupt punishes spammers.

Note: this is not advertisement lol.
I am sure few of you played OW but for those who don’t, that game has a character named Ana. What is so special about Ana? She is support with long range rifle. Ding ding ding. If she hits her teammates, they get healed. If she hits enemies, they take moderate damage. She also has buffs/debuffs and some CCs in her kit to support the team.
I personally would love to see thief to have alternative to decap pet/janitor role. After 5 years it is still the same issue – more than 1 thief on team? Please switch, we don’t want you, yada yada, 1 roamer is enough. If thief could fill other role (e.g. support) and there would be build templates (plzzzzzzz), i think it would offer more fun to pvp aspect of the thief.
Imagine if rifle thief could do something similar to Ana. It would allow them to stay far from big team fights and evil death circles but still support the team.

I have raided a bit when they were introduced but quit for long time due to pvping 99% of the time (hello pvp seasons). When i decided to raid again, most ppl had like 150+ LI so finding a spot in a pug group was really hard for me (50+LI for VG/escort wth?). So here few simple but crucial steps if you want to get into raids:

- roll a class (obviously with right gear/food/build, see qT page or metabattle) that is must have in raids (mes, druid). I understand you love your guard but this is raiding in gw2 atm – nobody (at least 99%) wants you unless you run meta.

- join a raiding guild. Avoid pugs like fire – sometimes it is worse than pvp. If you don’t have the 274923749723497 LI, you simply won’t get into any groups but training ones that will simply drain you off food and won’t get a kill. There are few raiding guilds that take new players and teach them as well. If they see you are doing well, they will bring you to more fights too.

I haven’t seen any of the enemies actually attempting to do anything about attacks, they just stood there. While understand the daze part, there are still plenty of instant spells that those enemies had available but didn’t use (e.g. signet of agility + shs would have cleansed most of the condis; some thief actually ran assassin’s signet – wth???).

Bottom line, it is just like zerker signet thief, you can murder someone really quickly but at half-decent levels you are free points to enemy team that knows how to coordinate (in pvp, that is).

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Cynz.9437:

These nerfs aren’t a big deal since they are PvP only and I personally do not care about PvP.

Aaand you lost me there. Change topic to wvw/pve analysis. While IP change was probably bound to happen in one way or another simple because of QQ and trolls, the spear change was completely unnecessary and added another extra instant spell that you have to dodge by all means -> yay more random dodges!

I haven’t duelled my DH friend since the patch, but I imagine the reveal is going to be way more of an issue for dash thieves than bound thieves. Judge and spear when he sees black powder go down is going to be brutal once DH players adapt to the timing.

The problem, as always, is team fights. There is so much crap flying around and you still need to predict DH using spear at specific moment to dodge it (assuming there is only 1 DH which really unrealistic considering how everyone and their mother were riding the dh bandwagon for seasons and matches are still flooded with those). If you don’t then you sit in 6 sec reveal while everyone on enemy team is training you. The result? I do not want to engage team fights at all. The irony is that Anet admitted in this patch that core specs could use some help, especially with teamfights, and yet they have done the opposite.

I run thief standard meta d/p with few tweaks and with signet of agility, improv, shs, withdraw. Between cleanses and interrupts, condi revs are not a problem really. Tbh, by far easiest thing to kill atm.

I would claim that necros can deal with them also fairly well. Just don’t waste xfers and cleanse right away and watch what revs uses. If he spams his rotation for high torment stacks and you cleanse it after, he is low on energy and will be dead pretty fast.

Regardless the builds they also still die really quick under the pressure so make sure to focus them with your team if you play the class that can’t deal with them solo. I remain by my opinion and think that in overall picture necros are bigger threat.

pelle ossa.9705:

Cynz.9437:

Crinn.7864:

Saiyan.1704:

Is this Sigil really all that bad on this 1 class who literally asked for a Thief specific sigil? I mean, I’m still waiting for Thief to win a 1v1 fight by stealing 20stacks of might and wreck shop with it.

My power necro got farmed in a match earlier by a thief that would constantly steal my 25 might stacks with headshot interrupts. And there is nothing more broken than a thief with 25 stacks of might.

He even whispered me after the third time he killed me about how jokes the sigil is.

Granted in the case of necro it’s irrelevant since thieves will always farm necros regardless of sigils.

Sooooo, the sigil should be removed because 1. thief is a counter to necro (mind you, guards have been farming thieves for years and it didn’t stop Anet giving them even more counters to thief, e.g. reveal on spear) 2. your team didn’t bother peeling for/supporting you.

You know by that logic they should be nerfing necros hard because they make engis extremely miserable. Or revs. Or about half of other classes.

I mean, you even admit that the case irrelevant, so why bring it up?

reveal on spear… atm even rocks evade that and with all projectile hate adding reveal is soo useless….

Show me meta build on thief that uses so called projectile hate? Also last time i checked, spear was an unblockable spell….
It also doesn’t change the fact that Anet added reveal to nearly instant spell from the class that has been extreme hardcounter to thief since launch basically. What really blows my mind is that the spear bug that launches target high in the air thus causing them to instantly die to fall damage or pulling enemies into terrain so they have to relog hasn’t been fixed despite all the reports and we are nearing 2 years mark since Hot launch.

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

What excuses? I’ve given a reason and all you have done is provide the excuses. Thieves have multiple means to cleanse immobilizes, something as spammable as should not remain as overly bloated at trait as it is; however if it is to remain as such place an icd on the immobilize portion of it.

It amazes me that there are people who are so focused on keeping in traits/abilities that are not healthy for the game only so they can feed their egos playing those very builds that are destructive to the game as a whole.

I have an advice for you. Go play core thief without drd. Try it. You will see the issue with cripple.

If this the standard you are using to validate your point, then sir you have failed. I do/have played core thief and it is still better than those builds who do not have a large number of ways to deal with immobilizes.

Post a video of you playing core to prove your point. Go on.

@zinkz.7045: that is your opinion. What devs said on stream was something different.

@Entenkommando.5208: that is 2 things. Sure, i am all up for nerfing DRD if other elite specs also see meaningful “shaves”. The posters in this thread however demand just plain thief nerf because they don’t like the idea of thief being mobile so he/she can fulfill their role as decap pet/janitor. There have been countless cries about stealth so Anet forced thieves into dodges/evades/mobility, now you complain about that as well. When are you actually satisfied? When thief stands still and feeds enemy free points? Because by the looks of it is what everyone here wants.

Once again, who says immob should be a counter to the class that is all about mobility? Thief is not a warrior or necro, they can’t take more than 1-2 hits. They do not have “bajilion” of dodges as posters that do not play the class claim. If they sat in immobs, they would be dead 24/7 and getting reported for simply existing like in seasons 1-2. I think thief has plenty counters as it is atm, why do you need more?

And if thief indeed so broken and OP, as every complainer claims, why does every single team throws a tantrum (including reports, verbal harassment, afking etc., i can show you the screenshots of the guy that decided he would afk every time he has a thief on team and he actually did so) when they have more than one thief on team?

These nerfs aren’t a big deal since they are PvP only and I personally do not care about PvP.

Aaand you lost me there. Change topic to wvw/pve analysis. While IP change was probably bound to happen in one way or another simple because of QQ and trolls, the spear change was completely unnecessary and added another extra instant spell that you have to dodge by all means → yay more random dodges!

Straegen.2938:

Stealth has needed a nerf for a very long time… since release IMO. Problem is ANet has nerfed everything around it instead. They need to unwind all those nerfs then take a bat to stealth.

So we would be pushed more into evade/dodge spam? Have you not seen all the QQ threads about thieves spamming dodges that lead to multiple endurance nerfs? I mean what is thief supposed to do, stand afk and give people loot bags?

I noticed it too. Nearly every match someone goes afk at spawn, either on enemy or on my team. Regardless whether it is ranked or unranked. I don’t understand such mentality. Why do you queue if you are going to grief your team and afk?

Crinn.7864:

Saiyan.1704:

Is this Sigil really all that bad on this 1 class who literally asked for a Thief specific sigil? I mean, I’m still waiting for Thief to win a 1v1 fight by stealing 20stacks of might and wreck shop with it.

My power necro got farmed in a match earlier by a thief that would constantly steal my 25 might stacks with headshot interrupts. And there is nothing more broken than a thief with 25 stacks of might.

He even whispered me after the third time he killed me about how jokes the sigil is.

Granted in the case of necro it’s irrelevant since thieves will always farm necros regardless of sigils.

Sooooo, the sigil should be removed because 1. thief is a counter to necro (mind you, guards have been farming thieves for years and it didn’t stop Anet giving them even more counters to thief, e.g. reveal on spear) 2. your team didn’t bother peeling for/supporting you.

You know by that logic they should be nerfing necros hard because they make engis extremely miserable. Or revs. Or about half of other classes.

I mean, you even admit that the case irrelevant, so why bring it up?

Loop.8106:

Entenkommando.5208:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Entenkommando.5208:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Killing off 3 classes is NOT okay. The fact that you people don’t see that is just sad, its literally like i’m talking to a wall. If Anet feels the meta is too stale and boring, they can shake it up in a manner that does not kill 1/3 of the classes in the game. That is poor balance.

I’m out, there’s no reasoning with people that just never understood the meta because they are too busy in bronze running full traps, or dps eles.

I never said that killing classes is a good thing.
This balance patch is a very good beginning. The past 2 seasons were the most cancerous gameplay we’ve ever had since old d/d ele and the meta desperately needed change. You can’t expect balance to work on the first day. Balance is a living thing that has to be adjusted in small steps to reach perfection….which is why ANet’s balance cycle is perhaps the worst choise they could have ever made. But that still doesn’t make this a horrible patch.
All it would need now are at least monthly balancce updated that are just small tweaks.

Also what classes are exactly “dead”? Warriors, because they have the loudest forum whiners?

lol the fact that you don’t even know what 3 classes anet killed shows you’re just here to argue. You actually have no idea what the meta was, or is now. Killing off 3 classes is NEVER a good start, I’m done talking to you.

Or perhaps it’s that I am not so ignorant to instantly assume a class is dead because it lost some of it’s comfort.
With all the changes you simply can’t instantly tell what will be viable and what will not. It will take at least a week to see what is working how after this change.
There is also still a big difference between being subpar meta and outright being dead which you can not tell by looking at some patchnotes.
If you claim that you have the ability I can and will not discuss this any further.

Well, in the case of DH’s its not an issue of being a subpar meta class. They are just dead. Demolished. It was one of the few classes “clinging” to the meta as it were, 1 ele just shut it down completly. Now having your damage AND sustain getting absolutly dumpstered, is the very defitniton of a “Dead class”.

you know other classes got hit too?

Nothing uncommon tbh. Anyone remember backstab bug? That one was so glorious. QM does not exist.

Phantom.5389:

steelheart.7386:

You people kill me most of the best builds were power last season. They make revs stronger using conditions and its OMG CONDS ARE OUT OF CONTROL. The Warrior and DH gravy train is over deal with it. This patch was mostly nerfs for just about everyone. And balance mostly involves nerfs. When you just keep boosting everything on everyone thats the worst thing you can do in general.

Most of the builds were ’’power’’… yea right…They were more like full condi cleanse build. I would call them anti-condition build more than I would call them power build. I’m an old dinosaur and when I speak about power build, I expect them to deal some decent damage. So I would include DH, power berzerker, Power necro and thief as ‘’true power builds’’. What do those builds have in common? They all can deal with conditions wthout the need to invest the majority of their utilities into condi cleanse.

Chonomesmer was the biggest condi build in play followed by condi berzerker and condi necromancers.

So no it was not purely condi nor was it a power meta. It had a mix, sadly the utilities in use for almost every build was basically revolving around condi cleanse and you could not really slot anything ’’fun’’ like an offensive utility such as bull rush on a warrior, arcane blast on a fresh air ele (RIP fresh air ele), etc.

Especially when you look at Tempest, engineer and druids… they were purely support/bunker. If you put any of those builds on a node… you would often need to wait for a +1 from either side to get into play before someone died.

I do agree that I much prefer nerfs to buffs in term of balance. Just wish the balance would make it so that core builds are viable and also make it so that different utilities are in use instead of full condi cleanse builds.

Excuse me? I run withdraw because of torment spam, signet of agility for condi cleanse, same for shadowstep….. that is 2 utilties + heal just for condi cleanse. I also ran sigil of generosity to deal with condi spam until it got deleted (now only condi removal on swap). Improv so i have chance to get those utilities off-cd or get double plasma for extra resistance. Add dash to the mix as well. I think that is quite few condi cleanses there. Without those i would be camping spawn all day.

Entenkommando.5208:

I thought that this trait was wrong from the very beginning. Besides how op daredevil movement was when it first hit this should be more than easy for a logical thinking person: Daredevils have insane mobility so what is their obvious weakness? Immob! …. oh yeah let’s just completely negate that counter…what could possibly go wrong?

Immob is obvious counter? Says who? You?

I think there is plenty counters to thief mechanics as it is. Once again, go play core just to get the idea why drd dodge cleanses cripple/immobs.

Zintrothen.1056:

It would just be better if there was no movement impairing effect removal at all on that trait. Give it something else in its place. The condi dodge hurls a condi attack, and Bound does damage on impact. But being able to remove all movement impairing effects with such ease, even with an ICD, is always going to be OP. The CD would have to be pretty long and it’s just a cheap way to balance it. There are better ways to balance, and it’s called reworking.

Go play core thief before you make suggestions like this. Honestly, do it.