Guild Wars 2

We don’t need 1200 range. This game needs more LoS and no elite specs in pvp.

Ramoth.9064:

Does sindrener think ranked queue is garbage? Btw, what happened to him?

Spamming unranked with his buddy…. ran into him the other day =.=

Crinn.7864:

sophiewhite.3149:

its because its incredibly fun to watch a thief play. extremely active gameplay.and with the lack of cooldowns a thief can go from 1 fight immediately into another. where other classes might need to wait for cooldowns.

I’m pretty sure it has more to do with demographic that plays the class than anything to do with the class’s mechanics.

Like when I played SW:TOR, 80% of the pvp videos where concealment operatives and deception assassins.

What are you implying? I would be careful here, because it is just your assumptions and are not based on any real statistics.

I personally think, at least in current state of classes, thief is about only fun class to play (and watch) due to high risk, active gameplay and required good map awareness, rotations etc. I have tried different classes, i can switch to them if we really need something else but i found them extremely boring to play.
I also actually see more DHs than anything else in matches so i don’t think there are THAT many thieves in pvp atm.

As for video, was there something special i was supposed to see? I saw core thief wasting dodges randomly, using signet of shadows, double capping point o_o

I just don’t play gw2 if i get to the point where game is simply not enjoyable anymore.
Let’s face it, this game had great potential for being best RPG for pvp, that chance was wasted due to lack of attention to pvp at launch, introduction of HoT etc. All we can do is watching the ship sink :/

P.S. i just noticed at the bottom of the forums that Anet has copy rights from 2010 to 2013 o.o.

I think for TDM we need courtyard-like map with 3v3, less fluff, fixed terrain bugs, less camera obstructing stuff (hello plants, weird ceiling and co.) and no spawn.

For stealth camping they could add an orb ( just like in wow) – an object that spawns once every xxx min/seconds and enables players to see stealthed enemies for xx seconds.

Pyriall.1683:

On a scale of 1-10, how does everyone rate their own personal skills in the game?

What is 1, what is 10?

Remove elites from pvp then balance from there -_-’

Those higher rated players also face high rated players. If they were facing players like you, OP, they would have 100% win rate and you would have 100% lose rate.

There is indeed however issue with rating gain/losses: it considers only your MMR vs average enemy MMR, it does not take into account that you might have to carry teammates hundreds of ranks below you vs better opponents, which is really discouraging since MM aims for shorter queues (thus throwing everyone in one match regardless their ranks) instead of quality matches.

To be fair, 68 straight loses is indication that something might be wrong on your end. Let’s assume you lose a lot, eventually you will end up in low ranks. Let’s assume you don’t belong at those ranks, you should be able to win regardless how bad odds are.

I have landed in silver/low gold range after placement this season, i had no issues getting back to plat because in low ranks, even as thief, i could win/stale 1v2/1v3 fights which helped me to win games. I mean, no offense, but people at low ranks really have no map awareness (which is usually why matches are lost) – you can abuse it for easy wins, i don’t see 68 losses happening unless you actively contribute to it.

I have the solution, that is way better: remove elite specs from pvp.

Caedmon.6798:

Wolfric.9380:

Basically playing against a warrior is unforgiving. Make a mistake and you die or can´t kill him while the warrior has room for errors. I can only beat worriors if i watch their toolbar carefully and am patient in what i do kiting and this needs time. Thers no fast kill against a good warrior. It´s no fun for casuals to fight warriors that are average or better. You need to understand the warrior´s capabilities and actualy pay atention to the small icons … And as mentioned a warrior duo is a killing duo that will burst down annything if coordianted.

What are these points youre making ? oh my kittening god. WOW you have to pay attention to when endure pain or berserk is being used instead of randomly hitting kitten…This kitten is hilarious,i just cant..Lmfao.

I think the point is that warrior himself doesn’t have to watch anything…. and can do a lot of mistakes.

It has been like this last season as well, there was 0 interest to fix it so far….

Manthas.6234:

I had such a losing streak as well (in fact, you could still find my picture in forums).

What I learned from it, is that, if you see another thief or mesmer in your group, you should switch to something more tanky. The moment I started doing that, my groups started to feel more well balanced.

I understand that you probably want to score some wins as a mesmer, but sometimes getting a win on something else, may bring a luck back to you.

LoL, completely opposite for me. The moment i switch off my thief, i start to lose matches. Not trying to brag but in 9 out of 10 cases second thief on my team usually turns out to be …. well…. not good enough for the match.
At this point i would rather stay on my main that i can carry with better due to high mobility (unlike my engi, that is forced to be glued to one point for the rest of the match).

As far as topic, i think it has been discussed countess times. Fair matchmaking doesn’t exist in this game. Alone due to small population and MM aiming for short queues instead of quality matches. The worst part, on top of it all, the rank gains/losses are based on personal MM and average enemy MM, it actually doesn’t take into account that you might have had teammates hundreds of ranks below you and enemy.

Also, lol unranked, they were always a chaos.

According to warriors in this thread you need something like 20 dodges and preferably some kind of kiting capability (stealth, invuls) if you want just not die to warrior. If you actually want to kill that said warrior, you would also need to dish out massive condi and direct dmg (with couple CCs) on top of it to overcome the abundance of immunities and high amount of regen/stab. Please show me the build that has it all. I am a noob and not aware of such build/class.

Just redirect them to me, i don’t lurk forums as much anymore~

fishball.7204:

MVP awards suck. Most players don’t even know when they’re being carried because their skill level is so low. I saw people raging at Toker last season for pushing far and winning 1v3s because “stop pushing far” etc mentality.

lol so much this^^

I have to sign up with google account for it? Ewwwww. No, ty.

vier.1327:

Trash talk in the team chat,can he have another kind of talks?

From my experience so far, people tend to ignore what i say until i start to spam in caps something like: DRUID STOP GOING FAR, DRUID STOP GOING FAR, DRUID STOP GOING FAR, DRUID STOP GOING FAR, DRUID STOP GOING FAR, DRUID STOP GOING FAR x 20 with some extra spice added to it.

Rauderi.8706:

Darknicrofia.2604:

pretty much all of kratos’ posts are based on some form of humble brag.

And yet, missing a flaw of logic.

“zomg, I go 1v3 and have this really epic battle while my team goes and sucks on 2 nodes”

The missing part:
There could have been someone on the enemy team who rolled his allies “1v3” just the same.

But instead, he blames his team, which actually sounds fairly typical.

And here comes the problem with this.
Let’s assume 2 teams with following setup (which is very likely actually):
A: 1900, 1600, 1600, 1600, 1600
B: 1900, 1600, 1600, 1600, 1600

On average both teams have 1660 MMR. Now regardless how those 1900 players do, how hard they carry they will heavily get punished for such matches anyway because
1. they will have to hardcarry due to having low ranked players on team
2. they will gain rating based on their personal MMR vs avg. MMR from enemy team which would result in 5 rating gain or 25 rating loss respectively.

Regardless how you look at it, such situation is just bad.

It gets even worse, when you have say 1900 player teamed with 1600s, and enemy team had 1 low ranked and other bit higher ranked, e.g. 1700, 1700, 1700, 1700, 1500. Which is once again very very likely (if not pretty much 100% the case). You know what 1900 would have to pull to win such match? While still getting literary nothing from winning such matches if he actually manages to do so?

Yannir.4132:

Pings are the best form of communication. I only ping my own location when I see trouble I can’t handle alone incoming. Usually that’s a 2v1, or when on druid, a warrior coming for me.

Yeah, in a perfect world where people look at map and have sound on.

jester iv.2618:

Are u ALL SERIOUS there are a couple of thiefs that come to mind that are good at this game amon, krono and terrismo are ones that everyone should know of how good they are. Others are just bad. Lets see sindreener in wvw and 1v1s hes normal. Guy is only good at rotations in pvp, i have seen him die alot in wvw on stream to random thiefs. Min and havoc…. staff acro. Are u serious anyone in game can go to spvp 1v1 arenas and practice with staff and master it untill they just be unstoppable with it. Staff acro is ez game. Let me see them with d/p. +min is a hacker. U guys figure it out yourselves.

Idk any of thieves you mentioned beside Sind lol.
“Guy is only good at rotations in pvp” – here is the joke, 99% of matches are lost due to bad rotations and there is whole science behind it, especially if you play thief. You can be best player as far as dueling goes but you will be still in bronze if you don’t know how to play as a team. Not to mention Sind would probably murder most other players in 1v1 xD

That is why i
- do not accept instant queues
- reset when queue is longer than 5 min
- do not stay in queue in one guy declined it and queue continues.

The chances of getting absolutely disastrous match in such cases is basically 100%

PvP community is small, we need more players, let’s not live in illusion that we don’t. I think adding carrots to pvp is good idea HOWEVER those carrots were added in wrong way to the mode in the past. They should be tied to wins and not just afking in matches – this way players that do decide to join pvp for rewards would be forced to actually try to win.

Also, if MM wasn’t flawed, the so called “pve’ers” wouldn’t be an issue.

Also as side note, not every pve’ers is necessary a bad player “dragging team down”. I am raiding every week, i do fractals, technically i would be pve’er. I placed in low gold this season and i soloed to plat so far. I really doubt that i was “dragging team down”, in gold at least lol.

At the end of the day it boils down to: groups use dps meters and require you to use one -> in fear of being kicked you just dps /stack quickness etc. and ignore everything else -> more failed attempts actually because players don’t rez other and/or ignore fight mechanics for the sake of better dps/stats not to mention few players that will probably quit raiding all together due to rising toxicity and stress factor. I guess this is what community and Anet want.

EU has more players, NA has more tourneys… RIP :/

Rapr.8526:

Cynz.9437:

I am actually more annoyed at the fact that given how much team support druids bring, sustain and damage, they also got RTL on short CD along with other gap closers. You shouldn’t be able to have so much mobility when you already have great numbers in other aspects.

yes sir, that is true but, i’m really having a hard time finding that build…

are you going to pretend that druids don’t have rtl on short cd?

I think, maybe listing some reasons why players are not interested so much in pvp’ing atm (which pretty obvious looking at LBs) could motivate devs to change some things around for next season. Leave your reasons (and maybe suggestions) here, in short form if possible without flaming and all that kind of stuff.

I will start. I used to pvp a lot, like way too much actually, way way too much. Now i barely ever do any matches for the following (main) reasons:
- Uncertain matchmaking: i welcome to the current rating system we have however i found myself wanting to queue less and less in fear of losing rating. It is not that i am not confident in my “skills” but i know that my skills have often nearly no effect on match outcome due to how matches are structured (especially in higher divisions). For the sake of shorter queues the match quality became so bad that pvp turned into AFK simulator (for me at least) aka 500-100 matches where either my or enemy team just afks at spawn due to unable to do anything else. PLayers divisions below other players should NOT be in the same match but it happens so frequently that i can see why players would not want to soloq or queue at all – too much risk to lose rating and drop down.

- Rating gains: similar to point above, the problem last and this season is that you gain rating based on your MMR and average of enemy MMR, the system does not take into account the MMR of your teammates – which is really bad because due to wonky MM you often end up with low ranked players while facing higher ranked which causes guaranteed loss and loss of quite chunk of rating for no good reason.

- Class balance: i know it is huge topic with many aspects, but i think it went really downhill when things like trade-off, specific role, common sense etc. were thrown out of the window and homogenization/powercreep became a thing (unkillable juggernauts with absurd damage and high mobility). The second aspect that simply DOES NOT WORK is balancing around NON-class stacking while class stacking is prevalent in pvp. If such feature causes a lot of player griefing (hello 2 thieves vs 4 dhs -> afk teammates) and lopside matches, then it needs to be fixed, one way or another.

- The rewards: i actually don’t care about rewards so much, i love that gold gains ranked give now but i feel like we need more carrots to bring players back to pvp. HOWEVER, those carrots need to be tied to wins, not afk’ing at spawn.

Enjoy the side effect of wonky MM – you face low ranks for the sake of faster queues, you also might have lower ranks on your team. The rating gain/loss system however only takes MMR of enemy into account, it doesn’t acknowledge that you might be carrying silver players vs golds. Has been like this last season as well (my team is gold, enemy team is top 10, i loss crap load of rating because my MMR was somewhere close to top 10, the system didn’t take into account that i had teammates almost 2 divisions below the enemy). Made thread about it last season as well – per usual, fell on deaf ears.

tl/dr: i want to get carried.

They should have bound rewards to wins, not matches played. That way people would be motivated to actually try to win instead of afking at spawn.

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

Brb, xfering to NA for easy title lmao. EU is still something like low plat for top 250.

I know right? Those top 250 titles are starting to look more and more like a joke considering.

Also they changed it so you can’t transfer mid season, R.I.P. the dream.

I have 2 accounts <3

@crunchyraisin.6054: So you are ok with top 10 exploiting the system and farming low ranks at 5 am for easy points (while dodging each other)? In other games people get banned for such things btw.
You are ok with dooming low ranks to constant loses because top 10 don’t want to sit in long queues? Take a guess why pvp community gets smaller and smaller.

Also, your scenario is not reasonable, there is more than just 10 people from top 250 queuing at time but for the sake of shorter queues the system just widens the range to nearly silver level. The worst part, it doesn’t even attempt to spread those top players across 2 teams, instead it just stacks them all on one team and makes them face full low rank team. I have seen it plenty of times. I highly doubt that anyone enjoys such AFK simulator (this is literary what such matches are) in long rung hence why people are leaving pvp.

As far as rewards go, yes, the ascended changes were also the reason why less players pvp but frankly, players in higher divisions would never face pve farmers anyway, so i would argue that reward change actually had any impact there.

I myself may be not top 10 players, but i have been ranked high enough to face 10 top pretty frequently and atm i barely queue anymore for this very reason – the matches are just not fun due to MM and poor class balance. And yes, i have been in 1.5 hour queues (hello legend begin of the season) and i was ok with it as long as i got decent matches. The moment i realized i (too frequently) end up on low ranked team (hello gold teammates) while facing sind/rom/misha and co. (guaranteed loss), i kind of lost any interest in pvp. Why waste my time? Loss is part of pvp but guaranteed losses is not fun for anyone. There is no guarantee for even matches (frankly i haven’t seen even match in ages, we either completely destroy or getting destroyed), every time you queue it is like playing lottery – who gets the low ranks! Make your bets!!! Seeing afk’sers and ragers (i actually had 3 ppl on my team go afk begin of match because i am using RF) that will never get punished is hardly motivating as well.

Ziggityzog.7389:

When you alienate groups like those interested in something other then holding little circles so they play stronghold. That’s one issue because then they also instead of making sure those who are in groups only face group and solos fight solos. They force people down to duo groups, why not ban 4 man and allow 2 3 and 5 so you can make match making a bit simpler.

When i used to pvp for years ( before the failure of season 5 ) i would mostly solo but now and then want a group. Anet stop trying to force people to play a certain way because your “competitive” pvp is a joke right now. I’ve had 90% ish ratio win seasons by killing NPCs but yet you want me to actually pvp lol hell no not worth the time playing to win but forced to lose with sucky pugs.

fix’d

a warrior duhh – just another member of faceroll club

Yannir.4132:

veslarius.8425:

Wait, is it true that the current set up pushes people toward 50/50 win loss with matchmaking? I heard that was why we shouldn’t grind out our matches, that one a day or something like that doesn’t try to force you into a loss by teaming you with people that need to be carried. So it was kind of like punishing grinders, but now it looks like they will be punishing for not grinding as well?

Please tell me if we are going to be forced to grind out our matches that we won’t be pushed into a 50/50 win loss especially since having a team size of two severely limits our control over outcomes.

I don’t think that’s a thing anymore. It was true during s2 or s3, can’t remember exactly. Ranked currently only should put you into a higher tiered match, and if you can’t handle it, that basically causes you to lose. As the teams are created randomly to some extent, it may stack the odds against you but it’s not by design, it’s by accident.

Explain me why my team farms enemy team 500-0 style and next match i am supposed to somehow carry the very same team we just destroyed? If this is not forced 50% winrate then idk what else is. 500-100 matches just scream that MM is wonky as it gets.

Brb, xfering to NA for easy title lmao. EU is still something like low plat for top 250.

Westenev.5289:

In that case, I counter propose an ability to toggle an MMR limiter – essentially having the option to lock outliers from joining your game (ie. preventing low mmr’s from joining high mmr’s and vice versa). This would mean higher ranked MMR’s have the option to wait hours for their top ranked games, while everyone else can just get on with it.

If you really want to change the PvP culture though, you could pick up a thing or two from PvE Dungeoneers. Pick up a newbie, teach them what you know, and send them off into the wide world to teach someone who may one day carry you.

I wouldn’t mind it. I would rather sit in 20+ min queues than in 5 min queue + 15 match that i am deemed to lose because i am facing top 10s while my team is all golds but me (yes, it is a thing actually).

I am actually more annoyed at the fact that given how much team support druids bring, sustain and damage, they also got RTL on short CD along with other gap closers. You shouldn’t be able to have so much mobility when you already have great numbers in other aspects.

- “not everyone has best provider/best gaming computer” <<<that is your problem, not Anet’s. That is like complaining to Lamborghini Company that you don’t have enough money and they should provide you with a car anyway.
- virus/update <<< set those on manual, problem solved
- getting removed from queue without message and getting dishonor is known bug.

It honestly blows my mind that people actually think it is Anet’s job to solve personal outside issues (bad internet, bad PC, bad configured firewall) of the players.

When i have bad connection, i simply don’t queue for ranked so shouldn’t you in the same case, simple as it is.

Based on this thread, all you need to do to be a top thief is to post some highlights video on youtube…. xD

On more serious note, from active thieves, probably Sindrener.

Gold and silver are probably most volatile divisions as far as skill go (people in their placement are around that rating and most ppl also place in those ratings). It probably would be even more lottery like tbh.

But yeah i agree that MM is lottery and has been like this for a while. What really triggers me is when you farm enemy team really badly and then next match the game expects you to carry the very same team you just destroyed…..

Exedore.6320:

Cynz.9437:

Well gold vs legends does happen more frequent than it should. You wait longer than 5 min, such match is basically guaranteed.

So players in legend should sit in queue for hours, maybe indefinitely?

For the top end of the population, it’s not a question of finding a quick match – it becomes a question of finding any match at all.

So you think it is ok for legends to farm golds for easy points? What the point of MM at all? Might as well just remove it all together. I have been in situations where i sat for 1.5 hour in queues and i was ok with it. Farming low ranks is beyond boring, sitting for 5 min in queue just to be only higher rated player on team of low ranks while facing full team of top 10s isn’t fun either. Faster queues are not worth AFK simulator (literary what it is atm for anyone a bit higher than gold).

Westenev.5289:

Shouldn’t we buff sub-paar players instead, to try boost their performance? It just doesn’t seem fair to empower people who are already getting kill counts in a match.

you can give 1000 buffs to bad players, won’t stop them from being spawn camped since they neither have map awareness nor have dodge keybinded

You are very welcome to write an algo that could detect difference between pulling the plug, turning off modem or player DC’ing. You might actually make some good money if you manage to write a reliable algorithm for it.

OP, at least you know how other classes feel that get countered by DH. #canttouchthis

Exedore.6320:

Cynz.9437:

I don’t think you understand my point. I do have issue with silver vs plats WHICH is the thing already and is caused by attempt of getting quick queues atm.

No, it’s not. The rating differential is relatively small and only increases with time. So unless you think 5+ minutes is “quick”, you’re being silly.

Well gold vs legends does happen more frequent than it should. You wait longer than 5 min, such match is basically guaranteed.

Tomiyou.3790:

Cynz.9437:

I am not saying thief can’t carry, the problem is thief is huge liability due to being designed around being the only thief on team. 2 thieves – your team needs to be much much better than enemy to actually win.

You know, having 2 healbot eles is terrible too. Sure they are tanky, but they don’t have the counter pressure to keep stunts off themselves. Same goes for 2 druids. They won’t have enough damage to win. But yes, I would rather have 2 dragonhunters than 2 thieves on my team.

That is arguable, if those manage to get 2 points, they can hold them forever. I have seen it done. Not to mention, nothing stops one of the druid changing the build to dps which is fairly viable.

How would game know which language i speak? Not to mention are you willing to sit in 2 hours queues because game can’t find another 4 catalonians?

Also, if language settings were taken in account by the MM, high rated players could abuse (pick mandarin) it to always end up together thus forming 5 man premades for easy wins.

Chat translators are just programs, they can’t reliably translate whatever humans say not to mention, the moment ppl start to use slang (which is usually the case), those translators are useless. Also, they would cost money for Anet.

I have better suggestion: how about learning English? I think every person nowadays should be able to speak some English. It is not like you need to know much, things like “war go home” , “3 mid” is sufficient.

I am not saying thief can’t carry, the problem is thief is huge liability due to being designed around being the only thief on team. 2 thieves – your team needs to be much much better than enemy to actually win.

Based on my observation, i think it is safe to assume the in game reports end up in the bin.
But let’s assume somewhere in the perfect world afkers do get some kind of punishment. There is no indication for it. Which leads to players ruining matches anyway (via afk, ragequitting, feeding etc.) because they assume nothing will happen.

I think all we can do is accept our fate and assume matches are a lottery – you get bad cards and there is nothing you can do about it.