Guild Wars 2

I was just forced into 4v5 game becuse we had 2 thieves on team and our druid decided to afk because of it. Obviously we lost (despite enemies not being that good even and we could have easily won if we just weren’t 4v5).

I join next match, 2 thieves again, this time nobody ragequits or afk’s and we actually win. The best part of this match was we were actually 200+ points behind because i DC’d (sup crappy 3rd level provider with 80% package loss) and then we made huge come back, with 2 thieves kek.

Condis also have secondary effect that they kept from times when condis were supposed to be utility. Imagine backstab would also reduce your healing by 50% for example and automatically cast on target when target hits thief – this is what condis are atm basically.

albostan.6719:

@ghorman

As a thief main I understand the problem of thief hate.

The problem that you explain is thief is the hardest profession to carry and to play.
From all professions you can play the thief requires the most skill and most ingame awareness of all. You need to know where to go when to decap when to outnumber when to chase someone when to avoid combat when to dodge etc.

Now after the nerf most thief struggle by not being able to dodge the entire game and I saw 70%-80% of the thief players are just bad.
Like 20% are decent but require still more to be pretty good. And there is a 1-5% who are pretty good who never die know outnumbering rotation and everything.
The problem I face most is thief die first your team tryhard rez and die due to 1 mistake by a thief. That’s for sure also the most common on lower divisions which ruins the fun for everyone.

When I see thief players spamming pistol 3 or 4 you realize directly that they are bad thief players even trough they might decap points and outnumber certain fights.
And the last thing is currently only d/p is viable so most staff or condi thief players are most games useless due to no mobility and that they die within seconds.

At the end it’s just a skill thing not hate thing :-O

No, it is a hate thing. I can play like trash on my necro, nobody would say a word. I can play perfectly on my thief, even enemy would say i did well and ask me to queue with them, meanwhile my team is flaming me 24/7. THIS is a hate thing.

sanctuary.1068:

Peeps, its only a soft reset from what i understand. Unless you do terrible you will end up roughly around the same mmr like last season.

yeah i am such a garbage, i got placed in my rightful place where i have 80+% winrate…. kek

DaShi.1368:

Cynz.9437:

You completely missed the point of the thread. Thief heavily depends on his team doing ok BECAUSE they were forced in decap pet role for years now but when the said team doesn’t do well and/or also prevents thief from doing his job (e.g. roaming ele) they also flame/blame the thief. This is very common. This is like chopping of hands from the surgeon and then complaining that he didn’t fix your broken leg.

Yes, they were forced into that role because they are the most effective at it. What some players here seem to want a thief to be is covered by other classes. However, I agree that other players undercut thieves by not letting them effectively play that role. This is because many players don’t know the roles in this game.

You do know thieves used to be decent duelers in first year+ and their main job was to go far at begin of match and kill w/e is there. Oddly enough (oddly for some that is), somehow pvp at those times was considered more balanced than the joke we have atm.

The old devs are gone and new ones want thieves to be huge liability and extremely dependent on the team to do well. And it really really blows my mind that current devs think it is ok to balance classes around NON-class stacking while class stacking is basically a feature in pvp – it is one of main reasons why there so many complains about DHs (too good when stacked) and why teams throw tantrum when they get more than one thief (basically guaranteed loss because devs balanced thief around being only roamer on team and with assumtion enemy doesn’t have stacked DHs/engis and co.).

Last season i placed somewhere in gold/plat after placement, this season in gold/silver range (probably because i didn’t play between seasons at all, given i am basically on 80+% win streak now after placement) so i wouldn’t rely on it.

NineLives.8725:

You are currently moving fast to your right rank.

The step also depend your opponent mmr, when the system can’t find opponents who match your rank, then if you are under you earn more rank by victory (lose less by defeat), if you are over this is the opposite.

Btw, before complain people should understand it’s not a reward/punishment system, it’s a measurement system, the more you play, the more accurate it is.

By the time i will get to my old rank i will be gaining like 2 pts per win at this rate. Last season i would gain 10-15 pts at my actual rank. Sry, your logic doesn’t work here.

megilandil.7506:

Stand The Wall.6987:

what if thief lost its extreme mobility? would it be taken at all in teams?

this is blasphemy….
they want their extreme mobility, their stealth, their evades….. the life of a necro, the healing of an ele, the blocks of a guardian and backstabing in aoe

No thief ever said that…..

We did hope that with HoT thieves would get a chance for different role (e.g. support, but they gave it to rangers that went from dps to healer/point holder), obviously if you fill other role you would lose the roaming one. It can be easily done by restricting utilities and traits….

DaShi.1368:

If you don’t like the role of the thief, then why not play a different class? That’s like complaining about healing other players while playing a healing class. And thief is still the king of +1 and decapping. If mesmers or revenants are doing a better job, then you’re not playing thief well.

You completely missed the point of the thread. Thief heavily depends on his team doing ok BECAUSE they were forced in decap pet role for years now but when the said team doesn’t do well and/or also prevents thief from doing his job (e.g. roaming ele) they also flame/blame the thief. This is very common. This is like chopping of hands from the surgeon and then complaining that he didn’t fix your broken leg.

wvw aside (yeah ghost thief is dumb but for some reason anet decided to buff it lel), i highly doubt anyone (beside people like OP) would actually bother with this build or try to solo boss for this matter, simply due to time needed for it

You are talking to a wall OP.

What really bothers me is that balancing team balances classes around NON-team stacking but class stacking is extremely prominent in pvp at the same time.

NineLives.8725:

I believe it does work fine, you would see it if you would experience it extremly.

At 1500, I had a +/-12 mmr step, and a 50% win/lose ratio.
I lost about 150 mmr very fast trying another class (playing it wrong …), and near 1350 the step became +12 -8.
Switched back to my main again, and I won 80% of my games.
I think I will reach back 1500, and then stay here again with a 50% win/lose ratio, with a +-12 step, except if I improve myself.

The system may seems frustrating, but it’s just a fair one : your mmr should converge to your right level, where you have 50% win/lose chances, faster if far / slower if near.

I was surprised how efficient the system appear to be : even if the win/lose ratio could be enough to converge at the right speed, this step change reflect something true about the situation (an asymetric doubt about my current rank)

Efficient you say? I placed almost 2 divisions below my old rating (w/e). This is my games atm (lel solo), i started at 28 rating gains per game. Getting 16 now and i am not even in plat yet…. This is not a 50% win rate and yet the rating gains continue to decrease….

Shaogin.2679:

Cynz.9437:

Shaogin.2679:

As your rating settles to more accurately represent your skill level, your gains/losses will drop so that you don’t have erratic deviations from your settled rating. You can of course still progress up and down the ladder and settle into a new rating.

It still goes down despite not ending win streak (i managed to place in low gold somehow this season, way below my rating from last season, obviously i am just winning all matches atm and rating gains keep going down, went from 28 per match to 19, i will probably gain like 2-3 pts per win by the time i get to my old rating). Obviously nothing is settling down there. The decay just seems to be hardcoded in amount of matches you play.

Well of course. It doesn’t care if you won or lost those matches, it goes by the number of matches you played. The more matches you play, the more confident the system is in your rating, thus your rating starts to settle. You can still progress further, just not as fast.

Except it doesn’t make sense because if you continue to have way too high win rate (we are actually talking about 80-100% here), then you are obviously not where you belong but the system thinks you do and artificially keeps you there by reducing the rating gains to abyssal numbers.

Shaogin.2679:

As your rating settles to more accurately represent your skill level, your gains/losses will drop so that you don’t have erratic deviations from your settled rating. You can of course still progress up and down the ladder and settle into a new rating.

It still goes down despite not ending win streak (i managed to place in low gold somehow this season, way below my rating from last season, obviously i am just winning all matches atm and rating gains keep going down, went from 28 per match to 19, i will probably gain like 2-3 pts per win by the time i get to my old rating). Obviously nothing is settling down there. The decay just seems to be hardcoded in amount of matches you play.

BloodriverTim.2031:

OneWordName.3761:

Not sure if it works like this in GW2 or not but if you go on a long enough win streak the system should become “unsure” of your rating and your gains should start to go up again.

It does not do this. You can have a 90+% winrate and stale out. Don’t play ranked for 3+ days and your volatility will go up giving you more points per win/loss.

They removed it.

saerni.2584:

I’ve had moments where the opposing team decided to use map chat to tell us we were going to lose because I was a bad thief. We won that match.

Often people make assumptions where a thief should be without complete knowledge. I see a guardian camping their home I’m not going to try to decap that. Or they ping map to decap when I’m already there. Also they expect thief to cover both far and home at the same time and I am running back and forth recapping/decapping because they all want to just contest mid and die on mid.

Lol so much this^^. Could sing about it.

My favorite part, you lose match – people flame/blame you; you win match – people ask you to queue with them xD

I think they did something to placement. It seems like quite few people that were in plat/legend last season placed in silver/gold this season. If you are in those rating, you going to have fun time in first week.

Mirrodin.8729:

Ghorman.1368:

Why is there so much thief hate??? I’m not a great thief but I’m not bad either but getting blamed before the match starts is really stupid.

And this is how you spot a bad thief, like others said before, a good thief can carry a game, a good one is dead weight, the special snowflake mentality

And this is how you spot a bad player. Even best thief in game is only as good as his team. If your team is incapable of holding a point, then you can’t do much. Let’s take Sind – he is probably best active thief on EU atm (fangirl mode on!!!) but i have seen him lose matches when he had a bad team.

What OP mentions is true. If Sind would be playing on some no-name account for example and his team would lose, chances are he would als get flamed and blamed. This has been normality for years now.

I am not denying there are bad thieves, but often teams resort to blaming the thief instead of looking at own mistakes. It has been done to me, i also have seen decent thieves getting flamed by their teammates way too many times.

My biggest issue is that teams often don’t know how to play with a thief on team. There is always that moron that keeps charging far and pulling enemies there so you can’t really go for decaps (but still getting yelled at that you don’t decap). Since this one guy is missing from the team fights, you are forced (as a thief!!) to take his spot in those fights and thief is like worst team fighter in game. Then we have people that farm animal 24/7 and let enemy steal it when it should be thieves job. Or people forcing thief to defend the point because they would rather chase some guy on the beach. Etc etc.
Bottom line, they force thief in situations that thief is not meant for and then flame and blame that thief for not “carrying” them.

bluri.2653:

Cynz.9437:

Well i am done with my placements (solo), ended up in gold (waaaayyy lower than last season). The fun part, every match is just stupidly one sided atm. I ended up on team with the same guy (turned out he was legend last season and placed silver this season O.o, also played solo) like 5 matches in a row and matches went like 500-150ish. Sitting at 80+% win rate after placements (can’t do much about DCs/afkers/4v1 morons etc.) and wondering what i am doing here. I have yet to see a close match. I thought MM and placement were supposed to prevent such scenarios.

What other said is true, as solo you are really playing a lottery game. Still. 4.5 years later.

Yeah actually it’s weird I see a lot of people who placed like top20 getting placed in platinum even thought me and misha ended up legend after placements (higher than we got placed last season since we went 8-2 then) and it’s not like we played any well known highrated players during our placements lol. Really weird, idk if they tweaked how high you should get placed

I have suspicion that it has something to do with activity between seasons. I haven’t pvp’d at all (besides like few matches on occasion). I need to ask that guy but i am guessing he also didn’t play that much. Maybe there is some hefty MMR decay in between seasons which then affect your placement.

Loop.8106:

I went 6-4 in my placements where 2 of the 4 losses were 4v5 games. I ended up at 1654 rating. Just a couple games later I’m sitting at 1758. Placements only count kitten much. Just keep playing and you’ll get to where you’re supposed to be.

Grats, i ended up in 1350 range with similar results (was plat last season). Not that i care much about rating, i can climb out of it. But 100% of matches for me atm are beyond one sided. I can solo druids/DHs and co. or 1v2 as thief at these ratings. It is just waste of time for me and not so fun for players i am facing (e.g. i basically spawn camped some mes yesterday, some people just ragequit).
The guy i kept running into in matches (thankfully on my team) was actually legend last season and he placed in silver. Take a guess how silver/gold players fare vs his engi xD

Then, as i mentioned, there is issue with rating gain decay, by the time i hit plat i will probably gain 5 pts for match. That is surely motivating~

sephiroth.4217:

I don’t think they could figure out a way to stop people from paying another to DC on purpose at the sight of a loss…

Per definition it is breaking of ToS and exploiting, in perfect world (and in about any other game) such players usually get banned. But this is gw2, where reporting is just pretty UI feature and nothing else.

fishball.7204:

I don’t think losing the placement with the DC counts towards your initial placement. So in a sense that’s sorta ok I guess. In the long run it’s just 10 games and you’re gonna need to play more anyway so placements aren’t that important.

Loss is a loss for placements. Issue is, if you say lost 1/3 of your matches due to DCd players, you going to get placed waaay below your rating. No biggie, right? Just climb back. The issue is rating gain decay. The more games you play, the less rating you get.

So here is example: A, B are equally good. Person A loses 2 matches out of 10 (no DCs) and gets placed around 1650. Person B loses 5 matches, 3 due to DCs, he gets placed in gold I.
There is 300 pts points between those two players.
Now here is the issue. Each of those players will gain 30 rating on first match down to 19 rating after 10 matches. Lets assume both of them on all 10 matches. So overall both gain around 240 rating.
Now person A is sitting at 1890, where B didn’t even reach plat yet.
Lets assume both players try to reach legend. With rating gain decay, assuming A and B only win and get hit by the same rating gain decay of say 15. A would need 4 more matches and he is done. B would need 24 matches. But this is not all. Since B continues to play, his rating gains continue to decay so after another 10 matches or so he would get even less (e.g. 8 rating). From 1590 to 1950 he would need 360 rating. 10 matches x 15 = 150. 360-150 = 210. 210 / 8 = 27. So 10 matches + 27 = 37 matches.

Bottom line, B would need to play 37 more matches (assuming he only wins) to reach same goal as A only because he had 3 placement matches with DCs on his team (which is very common atm).
Then we add reality check of forced 50% win rate, bad rng, paying for wins, trolls, griefers, bad class balance, class stacking etc. and the numbers will grow extremely high.

Well i am done with my placements (solo), ended up in gold (waaaayyy lower than last season). The fun part, every match is just stupidly one sided atm. I ended up on team with the same guy (turned out he was legend last season and placed silver this season O.o, also played solo) like 5 matches in a row and matches went like 500-150ish. Sitting at 80+% win rate after placements (can’t do much about DCs/afkers/4v1 morons etc.) and wondering what i am doing here. I have yet to see a close match. I thought MM and placement were supposed to prevent such scenarios.

What other said is true, as solo you are really playing a lottery game. Still. 4.5 years later.

Evan, why do you want to make refuge/core thief even less viable than it is? Can you give an actual explanation to it?
Why are there no sigils to remove immunities like endure pain, invuls, blocks etc? I mean if you are going to add such sigils as revealing, then sigils removing blocks, invuls, immunities etc. need to happen as well, otherwise you are heavily discriminating one class.

Also 15 sec CD for 1 condi xfer on sigil of generosity is absurdly long. Have you tried to pvp lately? Like at all?

How can we make pvp experience even more miserable? Let’s not address class stacking, let’t keep prof dailies and lock professions in matches. Woooooooo!

If you go in downstate you lose the credit.

Jitsuryoku.9038:

Cynz.9437:

Jitsuryoku.9038:

Cynz.9437:

You know you can just jump around spawn and not get afk message (that is what trolls have been doing).

And that’s where optional dishonor on enough reports comes in.

Take a wild guess when customer support actually did anything about reported afk’ers, griefers and trolls. Just prime example: there is a necro on EU that has been notorious rager and afk’er for years. Everyone knows him, people have been reporting him for years, no one-two times, years!!! Was anything done about it? Nope.

Yeah, anet doesn’t seem to ban lightly, which is why automatic measures to prevent PvPing (but not playing the game) would be nice.
I mean if a player got reported 4 games for afking and there was a stacking dishonor rule that would give the player a bit over a day of dishonor. So that necro of yours could only troll a few times a day.

The automatic features would be abused. I don’t like someone? I would just get few buddies to report that person – BAM, he can’t queue anymore. I don’t want to face top players? Report them! You see the issue?

Stele.4950:

Yannir.4132:

Stele.4950:

Isn’t the same guy doing it in two different games a little suspicious though?

Not really. If he has a bad connection, it’s not gonna fix itself between games.

The two games were 10-12 hours apart.

You know there are massive issues with NCSOFT servers since latest patches (last 2-3 weeks now)? And no, it is not issue with ISP in a lot of cases. If you actually run pingplotter or just old fashioned tracert analysis you will see that the package loss and huge ping spikes start at last hop to NCSOFT servers (e.g. yesterday i measured 20 ms, 0 package loss till NCSOFT servers and then 900+ ms and 33% package loss at their servers, the match was unplayable, players were lagging and someone even DC’d and couldn’t come back and yes there were unstoppable/unrezzable bodies there).

I suggest you to go try to pug raids, there is plenty of players suffering from this issue there and groups can’t rez them due to desync.

zinkz.7045:

Cynz.9437:

1. Anet nerfed amount of dodges you can get on thief last patch because people been crying about thieves dodging (but then here you tell thieves to use dodges lel)

Which is meaningless given certain thief builds still have evades/dodges in bucketloads (and beyond that as any good thief will tell you daredevil is faceroll regardless of this minor nerf, compared to pre-HoT thief).

People “crying” is not the issue, they are right, because the amount of evades/dodges some thief builds have is broken, zero skill crap, and an example of powercreep just like the amount of boon spam/duration, more passives, damage reduction, etc that have made every single class more faceroll since HoT released.

The ‘issue’ is Anet, instead of addressing the actual fundamental problems (which seems to be a recurring theme with Anet) with aspects of the design of various classes, the trait system, etc, they just buff/nerf stuff which fixes absolutely nothing and just causes numerous other problems.

They did nerf amount of dodges you can get for the meta builds (including dp) and it was a hefty nerf to staff build as well which limited variety even more (not that i am staff fan, but that is different discussion).
Yes, DD is faceroll, so are every single other elite spec compared to core, nobody is arguing about it here but here is the joke, the implemented sigil would actually make core even worse than it is.
My point is, yes thief has too many dodges but on the other hand how the hell are you supposed to deal with things that other classes throw at you? Every time a thief player voices their concern, they get told “just dodge”. So for every spell there is only one solution (according to this very community and devs) which is dodge because thieves are not allowed to take a hit per design. This is contradiction that bothers me so much. “Just dodge everything” , “you can’t have many dodges” – coming from same community.
You don’t like dodges? So do we (thieves, i personally hate DD). Give us alternatives. But instead Anet continues to butcher the said alternatives (stealth in this case).

Vitali.5039:

Cynz.9437:

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Yeah, IA also locks you in sb for 10 sec, which is one of the worst weapons as game as far as dps capability goes. By the time you can switch back to actual damage, the sigil on the enemy is up again.

That suggestion was sarcastic…. just to show how stupid implementation of hardcounters to entire class mechanic on short CDs is, especially on easy accessible item like sigils.

In a 1vs1+x scenario you shouldn’t come back to fight, so don’t worry about 10 sec on SB.

In a 1vs1 scenario you can also see how the enemy react to your stealth and looking at the current enemy weapon to dodge the proc on the swap, or stealthing only after the swap. Thieves have a lot of dodge.

What about 2v3 scenario? What about 2v2 scenario? hat about 3v3 scenario?

Yeah, thieves have a lot of dodges – it is an easy and lazy response to literary everything. Here is the problem with it:
1. Anet nerfed amount of dodges you can get on thief last patch because people been crying about thieves dodging (but then here you tell thieves to use dodges lel)

2. amount of crap you need to dodge due to thief lacking in defensive department is absurd, you basically have to dodge pretty much everything if you don’t want to get one shot but there are only so many dodges. This is also the reason why the d/d condi became so popular.

So here we have a comical case contradiction. People cred to nerf stealth, Anet made stealth (and continues to do so) undesirable. Thieves were forced into dodge specs due to lack of anything else. Now everyone cries about thieves dodging too much but then the moment thieves voice their issues with how heavy they get affected by spells from other classes, the only response they get is “just dodge”. What a joke.

Bottom line, all that this sigil will do is making core build even less viable. This is literary what you are asking for. This sigil is also just another example of heavy class discrimination. Where are spells/items that are directed at actual class mechanics/whole trait lines from other classes (e.g. disabling shatters, virtues etc.)?

As side note: IA won’t do much given how many gap closers and ranged anet gave to other classes.

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Yeah, IA also locks you in sb for 10 sec, which is one of the worst weapons as game as far as dps capability goes. By the time you can switch back to actual damage, the sigil on the enemy is up again.

That suggestion was sarcastic…. just to show how stupid implementation of hardcounters to entire class mechanic on short CDs is, especially on easy accessible item like sigils.

@Shaogin.2679: they won’t nerf neither revs nor engis in this department. The whole issue started with Anet giving stealth to classes that didn’t need them. To give some counter (and making core thieves undesirable while at it thus making elite spec DD mandatory and giving revs thiev’s spot at launch, once again to enforce sales) they added aoe reveals on demand on short CD with rather long duration. And they continue with same agenda. If Anet didn’t powercreep profs at HoT launch, there wouldn’t be need for such hardcounters. The powercreep really needs to stop, same goes for homogenization – they are ruining pvp but balancing team doesn’t want to hear it apparently.

It is not hacking, those people are actually lagging. When lag occurs the actual player position and displayed one are different due to delayed sync (this happens a lot when target was middle of movement, e.g knockback, when they went down). If you have any kind of targeted gap closer (e.g. shadowshot) or ranged attacks, just target the player and use the spells – you will notice their actual “body” is not where it is displayed. On the bright side, their teammates can’t rez them as well so you can just cleave the body without worrying about that person getting up.

Same issue happens in pve (raids, fractals) – sometimes lagging players go in downstate and you can’t rez them because their body is desynced. They surely not gain anything from it :P

As side note: report player (actual hackers, griefers, exploiters etc.) in game results in nothing from my experience.

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

@Shaogin.2679: because hot specs made spells like RF and core thief specs already extremely undesirable thanks to reveals. Additional reveal on demand on short CD on top of it is overkill. Anet keeps adding hardcounters to entire class mechanic but only for one class (thieves in this case) and somehow doesn’t do it for other classes. I personally would love if thieves had ability to make whole team see traps and disable traps/gyros. Fits right into same category as reveals on demand.

Jitsuryoku.9038:

Cynz.9437:

You know you can just jump around spawn and not get afk message (that is what trolls have been doing).

And that’s where optional dishonor on enough reports comes in.

Take a wild guess when customer support actually did anything about reported afk’ers, griefers and trolls. Just prime example: there is a necro on EU that has been notorious rager and afk’er for years. Everyone knows him, people have been reporting him for years, no one-two times, years!!! Was anything done about it? Nope.

I would go there if i could get chance to drill devs with uncomfortable pvp related questions…

No way i am buying armor from pvp or fractals, the amount of time you need to invest to get the shards/fractal currency, level up crafting profs, farm up the mats for crafting tokens is absurd and unreasonable. By the time you actually get it all done, you will probably get enough boxes dropped (not to mention i raid anyway, can buy stuff with magnetite shards).

Vicky.4563:

Cynz.9437:

Ok, then i think prof stacking is exploiting and should be fixed. Why is Anet not addressing it?

Ok. First you should be a player that actually matters, like a streamer or a tournament player. Second, you need to make a loud public post, maybe somewhere on reddit and get lots of people to agree with your point of view. Then you should threaten to quit the game unless they fix it.

That will produce the results you desire!

But random DH was complaining about bs breaking aegis and next thing Anet adds CD on all stealth spells.
Random no name asks for revealed sigil and Anet is eager to implement it.
I don’t think your formula is absolute.

FrostDraco.8306:

Cynz.9437:

thrag.9740:

tldr: sometimes kicks are necessary. More dps slots should be power thief, power engi, and condi mesmer.

I think it is more nuanced than, ‘be a jerk’ or ’don’t be a jerk’. Wiping for 30 minutes then disbanding does no one any good. Sometimes there really is a single player who can hold a group back, such as not throwing bombs at Sabetha (ironically Sabetha seems to hit enrage frequently in my pug experience).

However as far as under performing dps goes, I think a good practice for this community to address this issue is to push people towards the higher dps yet easy rotation classes. In particular power thief, power engi, and condi mesmer. Too often we try to just stack 4 eles at encounters where ele isn’t that much better (note: for gorseval no updraft and kc I recommend you stack 4 eles lol). Both power engi and power thief clear 22k dps just auto attacking. And condi mesmer will often be top dps on a single target boss like cairn and matthias.

Yesterday i got kicked on my ele from group on Gorse because we did no updraft and instead of afking during cc phase i dropped some damage in, but our druid refused to heal me so i got kicked for going down and was told to not dps Gorse + all other “nice” things in direction verbal harassment.
I join another group (accidentally ended up with couple ppl i killed deimos with on first week) and we cleared all 4 wings without much a problem in one evening (ca. 3 hours?)…. This is gw2 raiding community for you. And this happens all the time, one group just flames and blames 24/7, i join other and we clear wings quickly and without any issues~

3hrs isnt quickly at all. I cleared w4 with a pug in 2 hours the first few days. If it took you guys 3 hours something is really off, especially now that the mechanics are known.

four wings, so w1, w2, w3 and w4, not just 4th wing… l2read -_-’

we obviously took breaks in between and had to look for people when someone left duhh

thrag.9740:

I’m not sure why you quoted me? Is your position that kicking is never necessary?

my point is people are too quick to blame other and kick

You know you can just jump around spawn and not get afk message (that is what trolls have been doing).

Shaogin.2679:

As mentioned above, one of the main reasons for this happening was due to players playing the majority of the match with their main, then swapping to a class they don’t play well right before the win to get the achievement.

Also, really not good gameplay at all to be able to swap in the middle of a match just so you can counter someone’s specific build. If your team fails to swap at the start to give your team a decent comp to play with, then that is all on your team.

Anet wanted to lock class swapping completely and open up the door for class stacking limitations and class specific mmrs, but you guys didn’t want that. Anet also made it very clear that despite the poll results, they would not allow class swapping mid game or during the 10 second countdown. So stop complaining and enjoy what you asked for.

How do you know what i asked for? Assuming much?

Once again, the change didn’t do anything but profit teams that face players forced into profs they don’t play. One way or another, it is in a sense exploiting/abuse by Anet’s defintion. They didn’t fix anything but just made it worse.

Look at those one sided matches lel

Vicky.4563:

Cynz.9437:

Vicky.4563:

Cynz.9437:

Vicky.4563:

There’s this button you can press. It’s default is [B] I believe. When you press that button, it lets you see what your opponent’s team comp is.

Before you start the match, you have about a minute to spare. This is known as the “Warm up”. You can run around the map to familiarize yourself with it, or spend that time strategizing with your team. You can also use that time to press B and see your opponents team and switch as needed.

Once the gates close and the 10 second timer begins, you can no longer swap characters.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask me any more questions if you need. I’m always happy to help newcomers to the game and PvP

Once again, why lock profs when prof stacking is not addressed?

But professions aren’t locked. Or at least, they’re not locked before the game starts. So why would they care about professions stacking when everyone is free to swap classes?

If you want to be a cheating cheater who swaps midgame, that’s another story.

Because you don’t know what builds enemy runs or your own team sometimes. If swapping mid match is cheating why didn’t whole pvp community not get banned for “cheating” since we all have been doing it for years now?
Once again, give me one good reason why profs should be locked during the match when prof stacking is not addressed.

Because people used it to cheese the dailies and especially the achievements. That was not as intended and Anet doesn’t ban every cheater; especially when it’s so prevalent. They just change things up to prevent exploits.

Same reason why they didn’t ban every ranger who abused the unblockable SoW bug or Guards who abused the damage modifier bug.

Ok, then i think prof stacking is exploiting and should be fixed. Why is Anet not addressing it?

steelheart.7386:

You shouldn’t lose rating for a loss involving a true 5V4 meaning a disconnect of more then 90 seconds or so involving someone outside your group. I never have.

I never had trolls on your team then that like to afk at spawn or log off and then come back at the end so you are forced into 4v5/3v5 and lose full amount of points. As far as placements go, 4v5 counts as loss.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Reaper Alim.4176:

A.) Pay people to throw matches for you.

I’m curious how we would deal with this.

Reward the person if they come forward with proof that they assisted in match manipulation, and account ban the person who paid? Because if the intention is made that both of them are to be banned nobody is going to be stupid enough to get themselves suspended.

Not that I think this is a big issue. I think a lot of this anger is people being slapped with reality after thinking they’re the finest [class here] to play pvp and not being able to handle it/making their team suffer because they cannot handle it, but this is a good point, and I can see it happening.

At higher rating paying with gold for throwing matches is a thing. I have been asked to throw matches as well. Reports won’t do anything, those people never get punished.

Vicky.4563:

Cynz.9437:

Vicky.4563:

There’s this button you can press. It’s default is [B] I believe. When you press that button, it lets you see what your opponent’s team comp is.

Before you start the match, you have about a minute to spare. This is known as the “Warm up”. You can run around the map to familiarize yourself with it, or spend that time strategizing with your team. You can also use that time to press B and see your opponents team and switch as needed.

Once the gates close and the 10 second timer begins, you can no longer swap characters.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask me any more questions if you need. I’m always happy to help newcomers to the game and PvP

Once again, why lock profs when prof stacking is not addressed?

But professions aren’t locked. Or at least, they’re not locked before the game starts. So why would they care about professions stacking when everyone is free to swap classes?

If you want to be a cheating cheater who swaps midgame, that’s another story.

Because you don’t know what builds enemy runs or your own team sometimes. If swapping mid match is cheating why didn’t whole pvp community not get banned for “cheating” since we all have been doing it for years now?
Once again, give me one good reason why profs should be locked during the match when prof stacking is not addressed.

Natto.5819:

I think GM say you can’t switch character in the middle of a match now to prevent easy achievement with characters you didn’t play with. So if you’re strong on Warrior, you can’t use that to score a lot, then switch to Thief and get credits.

So you need to switch before match starts.

Let’s assume it is true, it would force players to play classes they don’t know for achieves and ruin matches for other players? Great solution…. it just provides easy wins for enemy team /facepalm.

Vicky.4563:

There’s this button you can press. It’s default is [B] I believe. When you press that button, it lets you see what your opponent’s team comp is.

Before you start the match, you have about a minute to spare. This is known as the “Warm up”. You can run around the map to familiarize yourself with it, or spend that time strategizing with your team. You can also use that time to press B and see your opponents team and switch as needed.

Once the gates close and the 10 second timer begins, you can no longer swap characters.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask me any more questions if you need. I’m always happy to help newcomers to the game and PvP

Once again, why lock profs when prof stacking is not addressed? Give me one good reason since you are so smart and like to help “newcomers”.

No, you don’t need HoT for plat, but given the direction anet went with, next seasons you might need hot later.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is i can’t switch classes mid of match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

More than half of the community who took the time to vote on the poll that Arenanet put out, asking them if they want it, despite many of us protesting the idea for this specific purpose.

Get ready for DH stack matches. At least Arenanet will know what classes the players feel most confident playing so they can add that to their metrics.

As for right now, though, nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the room called “you’re bad at the game. until you put in the time to get better at it asking for random changes to pvp matches will not help your ego”. Esq.

I don’t mind prof locking, but it was supposed to reduce chance for stacked profs in matches which it didn’t. They just locked professions but did absolutely nothing to algo that stacks profs.

I dont think anyone ever said they were going to reduce the chance that classes be stacked / enforce class locking/ matchmaking. Afaik, that was wishful thinking on the part of the community without any solid evidence that it would take place.

If I’m wrong though, please correct me.

It doesn’t matter whether it was wishful thinking or not, whole reason why locking profs came in picture is BECAUSE devs said they can’t do anything about prof stacking unless they lock profs. Instead of addressing stacking issue they just locked profs.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is i can’t switch classes mid of match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

More than half of the community who took the time to vote on the poll that Arenanet put out, asking them if they want it, despite many of us protesting the idea for this specific purpose.

Get ready for DH stack matches. At least Arenanet will know what classes the players feel most confident playing so they can add that to their metrics.

As for right now, though, nobody wants to deal with the elephant in the room called “you’re bad at the game. until you put in the time to get better at it asking for random changes to pvp matches will not help your ego”. Esq.

I don’t mind prof locking, but it was supposed to reduce chance for stacked profs in matches which it didn’t. They just locked professions but did absolutely nothing to algo that stacks profs.

Otokomae.9356:

It’s pretty bad. I mentioned in another thread that I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. Those matches are completely lopsided, of course. We had one match where the Thieves were able to out-rotate the other team, & we ended up winning, with 2 of us tied for Top Kills with just 1 kill each. But the other 3 matches went very differently…

My problem is game doesn’t allow me to switch characters in match. So i am stuck with 3 thieves vs 3 DHs…. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA????

So i am sitting in match with 3 thieves on my team vs stacked DH team but if you try to switch character, it say error due to character being locked in the match. So i can only log in match on the character i am in match with.

What is the point of prof locking when teams still have stacked professions???

LouWolfskin.3492:

Cynz.9437:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Cynz.9437:

Yannir.4132:

What Sigil of Revelation will do is eliminate the use of Stealth Gyro for engineers, and Shadow Refuge for thieves. Since they are a visible sign of: “Somebody is in stealth here.”

Evan, pls consider adding 2 more On-Hit sigils. 1 for direct damage application and 1 for healing/sustain. Something like 300-500 damage for 1 target every 5 seconds, and a similar number as healing for 5 allies every 6-7 seconds. (these would be Sigils of Air and Water)

Also give the passive sigils another round of thinking. I think both of the new sigils should have an upper cap of 7-10%, so they would be situationally useful, and not just a downgrade from Sigil of Force. I also think you should keep Sigil of Force and Sigil of Bursting, and as they are. And give us Sigil of Malice, it can replace all of the previous +Condi duration sigils.

If anything they should just rework refuge at this point. The amount of hardcounters to it is absurd and doesn’t make any sense anymore.

I’d be curious what you see as hardcounter to it. Aside the obvious since it is stationary and there for any AoE will hit people hiding it. People say all the time that Stealth got nerfed hard by hard counters, but really, how many are there that are present in EVERY ROUND with your thief.

Revs have reveal on demand and it is part of meta build, same goes for engis.
Surely meta thief runs DD but given nerfs to endurance gains last patch, thief will have to camp stealth even more. I would also highly suggest you to try to play core thief. You will know what i mean by hardcounters.
As far as frequency goes, those counters are in every match, there is always an engi and always stacks of DHs with their trap spam.

So that’s 2 classes with an actual counter, since most other skills that apply reveal need a target (which goes totally against the point of this debuff) and you asume that every single engi/rev will use his skills in such a way that you are never able to use your stealth skills, not to mention that it’s been quite some time since i saw Shadow Refuge.
And the DH, well, yes, he’s ever present and i doubt we will see him go away.

I actually play core thief, WHEN i Play thief that is, daredevil doesn’t feel to me like it offers much aside extra evade.
Will i win against certain builds? Nope, i won’t, but it’s been that way before revealed was a thing and before Scrapper or Revenant were.

As was pointed out the sigil actually doesn’t go much beyond melee range, i even doubt that many people will use it because of that exact reason.
I for one am curious to see these changes play out, and i don’t even hate thieves, everyone playing one and actually helping their team win has my deepest respect.

Revs always use that skill, it is part of their rotation.
Engis (unless they are bad) will use this skill, especially when team is focusing thief.
Yeah, take a wild guess why people don’t use RF? Great reason why Anet should add even MORE reasons NOT to use RF…… /faceplam.
Let’s accept the state of DH and let low skill players ride easy games? You actually think this is acceptable?
Actually before reveal was a thing, core thief was viable. Then Anet started to throw reveal around like a candy which made DD mandatory on first place, at some point you just hit the wall on core thief where reveal becomes a real issue along with all other candies other classes received while Anet was too busy finding way to nerf thief yet again.
I think it is wrong and was probably worst balancing decision that has been done in this game along with making elite specs stupidly broken compared to core.

Bottom line, i find it extremely wrong to introduce spells/items that present extreme hardcounters to entire class mechanic. I have no idea why it is just thieves the balancing team targets so much as far as hardcounters go, but think about, what if started adding spells/items that prevent shatters, disable virtrues etc. It is just beyond stupid and reeks of class favoritism (or discrimination in this case).

LouWolfskin.3492:

Cynz.9437:

Yannir.4132:

What Sigil of Revelation will do is eliminate the use of Stealth Gyro for engineers, and Shadow Refuge for thieves. Since they are a visible sign of: “Somebody is in stealth here.”

Evan, pls consider adding 2 more On-Hit sigils. 1 for direct damage application and 1 for healing/sustain. Something like 300-500 damage for 1 target every 5 seconds, and a similar number as healing for 5 allies every 6-7 seconds. (these would be Sigils of Air and Water)

Also give the passive sigils another round of thinking. I think both of the new sigils should have an upper cap of 7-10%, so they would be situationally useful, and not just a downgrade from Sigil of Force. I also think you should keep Sigil of Force and Sigil of Bursting, and as they are. And give us Sigil of Malice, it can replace all of the previous +Condi duration sigils.

If anything they should just rework refuge at this point. The amount of hardcounters to it is absurd and doesn’t make any sense anymore.

I’d be curious what you see as hardcounter to it. Aside the obvious since it is stationary and there for any AoE will hit people hiding it. People say all the time that Stealth got nerfed hard by hard counters, but really, how many are there that are present in EVERY ROUND with your thief.

Revs have reveal on demand and it is part of meta build, same goes for engis.
Surely meta thief runs DD but given nerfs to endurance gains last patch, thief will have to camp stealth even more. I would also highly suggest you to try to play core thief. You will know what i mean by hardcounters.
As far as frequency goes, those counters are in every match, there is always an engi and always stacks of DHs with their trap spam.

Yannir.4132:

What Sigil of Revelation will do is eliminate the use of Stealth Gyro for engineers, and Shadow Refuge for thieves. Since they are a visible sign of: “Somebody is in stealth here.”

Evan, pls consider adding 2 more On-Hit sigils. 1 for direct damage application and 1 for healing/sustain. Something like 300-500 damage for 1 target every 5 seconds, and a similar number as healing for 5 allies every 6-7 seconds. (these would be Sigils of Air and Water)

Also give the passive sigils another round of thinking. I think both of the new sigils should have an upper cap of 7-10%, so they would be situationally useful, and not just a downgrade from Sigil of Force. I also think you should keep Sigil of Force and Sigil of Bursting, and as they are. And give us Sigil of Malice, it can replace all of the previous +Condi duration sigils.

If anything they should just rework refuge at this point. The amount of hardcounters to it is absurd and doesn’t make any sense anymore.

@Evan: please add sigil of poor decisions – disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities on enemies in area on crit hit, 9 sec CD. Since it apparently became a fashion to add sigils with hardcounter to entire class mechanic, i think such sigil would fit very well in the overall balancing picture~