Guild Wars 2

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

A lot of people are exaggerating. I’m sure Anet is looking into mesmer damage, but not seeing much near what people are complaining about. There was one thread that complained about a 9k attack from iWarlock. There’s no honesty in the complaints.

At this point, I have to agree with denis. It looking like a personal grudge against PU discarding logical arguments in favor of personal complaints.

Warriors have enjoyed an excellent spot in all types of gameplay for sometime. It used to be that mesmers easily countered warriors, then that changed to where warriors were much stronger than mesmers. The last patch allowed mesmers to hold their own against warriors, but I guess that’s just not acceptable to warriors.

I’m sorry there’s a build out there that your warrior can’t beat. God knows he’s “supposed” to.

Choppy.4183:

Maybe you can explain this argument. If the reason PU isn’t good in pvp is that long stealths aren’t advantageous, and so it’s not worth taking the Chaos line over other lines to get PU on most builds, then how does pvp factor into any decision about whether or not to reduce the stealth bonus from PU?

In wvw, how does the fact that thieves have abusable stealth support the notion that mesmers should have it too?

My point is the same you are making. PvP doesn’t really factor into whether PU should be nerfed, but that’s where most of the complaints are coming from.

In WvW, my argument is that why should mesmers be singled out when other professions have very strong abilities in WvW too. PU currently gives mesmers a place in the sparse roaming scene. In fact, it’s not really strong anywhere else in WvW.

My overall point is that the problem with PU isn’t PU. It’s the inconsistent way that stealth is implemented on mesmers. Mesmers can still use damage skills while in stealth. With this fixed, the problems with PU become significantly less.

All the professions received buffs and are doing better. However, the mesmer received a lot of stuff that it had to specifically trait for all together. Now it can run shatter, phantasms, and interrupts all very effectively in the same build.

The problem is that most of the suggested nerfs want to destroy the mesmer or push them to the margins of competitive play.

Below are some changes that I feel will keep the mesmer strong where is always has been, but reduce its ability to be so strong in all those areas at the same time.

I suggest lowing the baseline damage of phantasms and shatters and putting that damage back intro traits. If you want to do a strong shatter burst, you need to give up Power Block. If you want strong phantasms, you need to give up Confounding Suggestions. In fact, I’d rather that it wasn’t so easy to take both Empowered Illusions and Mental Anguish together either.

Other changes would be some reasonable fixes and small adjustments. Clearly, Blinding Dissipation needs adjustment. Either a cooldown or make it no longer proc when the opponent evades the shatter. But just one and see how it goes.

The immobilize on Chaotic Interruption needs a cooldown. 15 seconds seem reasonable to me.

I have a hard time justifying nerfing PU. It’s not good in PvP, except for 1v1s, which isn’t what PvP is about. It’s very good in WvW, but so are thieves’ stealths, rangers’ range, guardians’ retaliation, and warriors’ sustain. There’s no reason mesmers should be singled out there. It has some situational uses in PvE that I wouldn’t like to see disappear because it makes the mesmer a useful alternative when you don’t have a thief.

Rather, I’d make some changes to how stealth works for the mesmer. Mesmers should lose stealth (and be revealed) when they successfully summon a phantasm or interrupt with Power Block. Using damage skills and keeping stealth shouldn’t be allowed on any profession.

Perhaps they are using it to test player behavior.

Arenanet seems to like this. The new LA is filled with intruding NPCs. Even the mystic forge isn’t safe.

Cleaning Ire can proc hitting illusions. However, mesmers have always had an advantage over warriors, which is one of the few professions that can be said of.

Every profession got a damage boost, but not everyone got a defense boost. Plus, you may have just gotten hit with a few lucky crits.

Hotjoin should be reverted back to the way it was at release, which was similar to the old GW1 random arenas. The only good thing about it was the ability to observe games, but does anyone actually observe hotjoin matches?

lol, serves them right, trying to abuse the system.

I think most people think the most recent changes are bad. Because if they didn’t we’d know about it. This is NOT a shy community.

There have been relatively few compliments, therefore I assume everything is wrong.

You haven’t convinced me.

Rangers ruined underwater combat for everyone else.

My statement remains true.

Archon.6480:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

So it’s ok for the rest of the classes to perform well, but not ranger right? Whenever you see a ranger is doing good, we gotta nerf it ASAP so it goes back into the depth of hell once more right?

It certainly seems that way. Rangers are the villains that all the hero classes have to slaughter. And we all know the villains are weaker than the heroes…

Rangers should spend less time asking for nerfs for other classes and focus on what their class needs improvement. Antagonizing other players is the main reason rangers aren’t well liked.

Mesmers got flattened by fresh air bursts, which were far more reliable than shatters.

So mesmers now have a chance against fresh air eles? No way! Nerf!

Terrorsquad.4802:

Kabikaz.8637:

From what I am seeing,, Mes is falling out of the Meta again, already. At least that’s what my PVP aware guildies are saying.

It’s a pub stomp class. That’s about it, in the long run.

Tell your PvP Aware Guildies to watch ESL and play vs decent ppl

People are bringing mesmers now because they are getting so much attention. Whether they stay is the issue, and not necessarily bad (otherwise, you have to argue for nerfing every class in a tournament). Frankly, I feel mesmers still have a lot of the same problems in high level play that they always had and people will still choose thieves over them more often.

What class isn’t faceroll to play?

Terrorsquad.4802:

blitzkrieg.2451:

I’m not sure man, as a ranger mesmer seems still seem alright to me… I’ve played against some of the best ones too and it seems like if I make a mistake I’m kittened and if they make a mistake they’re kittened, that seems like how it should be IMO but for some other classes that might not be the case.

Ranger will remain good in 1v1, one of the best. But in team arena.. I dont see them, do you?

(talking about mid-high tier pvp)

Rangers in team arena have nothing to do with mesmers. Both rangers and mesmers are strong 1v1 burst professions, that left alone will wreck the opposing team. This is why they are both strong outside of teamplay. The difference is that in teamplay, mesmers (and thieves too) bring a lot more additional support and mobility than rangers. This doesn’t mean that mesmers and thieves need to be nerfed. It means that rangers need more reasons to be brought on a team. If mesmers and thieves suddenly vanished, people still wouldn’t be bringing rangers to team arenas.

Yeah, ranger should be much higher.

No one here has found your reasoning sound. You need to provide different reasons, because you’re not convincing anyone.

This is why I support the idea of ranger free servers for PvE. Imagine it. No more afking, no more point blank shot, no more bear/bows at Teq. Ahhh.

ResJudicator.7916:

You’re still wrong. MM requires that the player manage his minions and control his opponent’s movements so that the minions don’t spend the entire fight kitten ing around. The class also has terrible mobility, which means the player needs to have good map and rotational awareness to be at the right spot at the right time. You can easily spot the difference between good MM players and bad ones.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, it really is about what class you play (thief) and your inability to beat them. Otherwise, you’d realize that the class isn’t as braindead as you claim, and that it serves a specific role, which is to prevent you from solo decapping a point. It only seems “braindead” to you because the build counters yours, so you feel helpless.

Although it is fun to stand on point doing nothing while your minions chase someone around and eventually down him. However, when that happens, the MM is not to blame.

T raw.4658:

zapv.8051:

T raw.4658:

Its all about AI builds being in the game period.

This is why no one is taking you seriously

Ah the old cherry pick a statement and disregard the rest.

Try again

How can it be cherry picking if you said that was your point?

ResJudicator.7916:

OP, your zerker thief isn’t meant to be able to beat every single build 1v1.

Thieves have always had a hard time with MMs. They were actually stronger in the old meta, where thieves were more prevalent. Hammer warriors/guardians and eles still destroy MMs.

Is this just an alt account?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Minion-Master-Necro-is-the-new-Turret-Engi/first#post5212434

This pretty much proved my point.

It’s great for jumping puzzles because it activates when you cast Portal Exeunt. So you can cast Portal Entre, jump and fall. Then you hit mimic and Portal Exeunt to portal back and have your next Portal Entre ready to use.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

The thing about this thread.. Is that it’s mostly talking about 1v1s, is filled with over exaggerations, and is only talking about one specific build.

…And it comes from a non-Mesmer.

/two-finger clap

Also, you could make a thread like this for any class and get just as much attention. I’m actually surprised that a thread that is clearly designed to engage in and attract hostility is still open.

They’re next.

Morwath.9817:

Necro is at same spot as Ranger…

As in not happy until their most powerful skills are buffed to OP.

Every class has had someone come in and say they facerolled with the class during their first time playing it. It is never accurate and never constructive. All it shows is that the person complaining doesn’t have experience with that profession.

That said, I totally faceroll playing thief to the point where I’m considering wearing a blindfold to make it marginally more challenging.

PeterFries.1057:

pdavis.8031:

Wait…If the superfuous Noll was unintended, and thus fixed, that would imply that the Evon doppleganger IS intended….

Find the imposter “Evon” in Lion’s Arch right now, and I think you’ll find out why he borrowed his doppleganger’s name…

Sorry. This conversation just reminded me of this:

Homer: Look kids! I just got my party invitations back from the printers.
Lisa: [reading the invitation] “Come to Homer’s BBBQ. The extra B is for BYOBB.”
Bart: What’s that extra B for?
Homer: It’s a typo.

:)

One sentiment I’ve read is that mesmer has gotten a LOT easier to play. Are you enjoying this?

I’ve mostly been playing my mesmer in PvE. In fact, I hadn’t been playing my mesmer in PvE for a long time until the specializations. Now I enjoy playing my mesmer a lot more in PvE. It’s not only easier, but more enjoyable.

I haven’t had much luck with my mesmer in PvP. Everyone keeps talking about how much more damage the mesmer has now, but I’m not seeing it. Before the patch, I found shatter mesmer to be one of the most effective classes I played. Now I feel woefully behind. I’ve been unable to burst down engineers, guardians, and elementalists. And they are able to crush me with their conditions and AoE.

I suspect a lot of the complaints about mesmers comes from people learning new builds. Mesmers are able to take advantage of that confusion. Once the meta settles, we’ll see if people still have complaints about mesmers beyond getting confused by clones.

For me, the grandmaster mesmer traits have been an absolute candy store. Which GM traits have been your favorite?

My favorite right now is Illusionary Inspiration. It has such great syngery with Blurred Inscriptions and Inspiring Distortion. Having your phantasms be able to cure a condition, share your boons, and grants distortion to your allies is awesome. The only difficulty is that its cool down makes it a little hard to time.

Prismatic Understanding (PU) has proven to be a really strong trait for shatter builds (PU shatter). Do you think this needs adjustments?

I tried this in PvP with little success. Again, I just wasn’t able to churn out the damage to counter the defense of engies, eles, and guards. I suppose that it is a good trait for escaping, which is fine. But long stealth simply isn’t as useful in conquest That said, if you really are able to go perma stealth, then this should be reduced because it could be abused in WvW.

Another build I’ve seen around is a power block/Chaotic Interruption build. Have you tried this out?

I have not, but might given how shatter seems lacking to me atm.

Normally, mesmers really only took Dom, Dueling, Illusions in PvP. Are you taking Chaos and Inspiration at all?

I’ve tried shatter with Chaos instead of Illusions, with limited success.

Mesmer got a lot of conditional recharge abilities (reduced recharge on staff when you have chaos shield for example). Are you liking these?

Other than the sword, I never really worried about these before the patch, and don’t much now.

Mimic got a huge change. Are you using this at all?

Yes. At least in PvE. There’s frequently times where one utility really shines (i.e. feedback) and the rest seem like minor additions that may or may not even be used. Now mimic allows me to use that skill a bit more.

Time Warp gained slow and now can be traited for resistance and super speed! Are you using this at all? Would you take this over the other elites?

Haven’t tried traiting it yet, but the problem with it is that Guardians can now bring quickness a lot more frequently. That said, until Chronomancer, it is still the best elite to bring in PvE group play.

How have your fights against other mesmers been? Do they feel skillful?

These seem to be the only ones I’m doing well against atm.

Mesmers are having it a little easier now because people aren’t used to their new builds and mesmers benefit from the confusion.

Ithilwen.1529:

I adamantly disagree. In my 3rd year of play, this is the first time I feel on a relatively even footing.

What needs to happen is the former burst/zerk classes that could destroy a Mesmer ( or Ele ) in seconds learn to have some defense.

I understand the sour grapes. Rangers, Warriors, Guardians and thieves prety much had the upper hand going into a fight with a Mesmer.

This led them to believe they were highly skilled. Now, they need to learn a new skill set and defense.

Pretty much sums it up. Mesmers are now on par with those classes, which is, of course, unacceptable to them.

There’s no build, no matter how poor, that someone won’t lose to and think is OP.

It’s definitely designed like any casino game; you will lose over the long run.

One step closer to playable Karka.

I believe the issue was that on average the number/presence of warriors on a team dramatically increased its odds against teams with fewer to no warriors.

I didn’t, but the Ultimate Edition is now less appealing.

McNinja.5417:

While yes, it was nice for ANet to clarify what they would be doing for the next expansions, but they clearly failed to come up with a solution or even understand the actual issue – that is, that people don’t want to pay for things they already have.

Let’s assume that 3 years from now another expansion comes out, giving us, the core GW2, HoT, and Expansion2. What they should do pre-expansion is sell all three separately (to get the people who don’t pay attention; sorry but it works), sell all 3 as a bundle with the core and HoT discounted, and finally just sell expansion3 separately.

It’s not hard. It really, really isn’t.

It is problematic because it will inflate the price of the latest expansion. Despite what some people here have said, there is a cost for offering core GW2 (and any past expansions) for “free.” This cost will be passed to the consumer. The cost is the lost revenue for selling those games individually.

If we assume that HoT is $50 on its own, then by giving away core GW2, Anet is losing whatever revenue that they would have received from selling the core game. For example, if the core is valued at a price of $10, then they lose $10 of revenue for each sale of HoT. Most investors would jump ship on a company that was giving their products away with no plan to recoup the loss.

And on the surface that may be how it looks. In reality, they make up this cost by increasing the price of the expansion. It’s similar to how Microsoft sells the Xbox at a loss. They make up the revenue from the sale of the individual games, which are priced higher to compensate for that loss. Anything else is bad business. In addition, by offering the Xbox below cost, they increase their pool of potential buyers and maintain a competitive advantage against their rival. The risk is that people will buy the Xbox, but wait to buy the games after their price has declined (or don’t buy their flagship games that clearly up-priced), so MS won’t really recover the loss and will see reduced revenue.

Now people are quick to point out that the amount of content announced for HoT doesn’t seem to justify kitten price tag. It is very likely that Anet is trying to recoup the loss on core GW2 sales by a high expansion price tag. However, what is troubling is that their method requires people to pay the same price regardless of whether they have the game or not. This is where Anet’s behavior stands out as egregious by the community. It’s like having to pay for another Xbox each time you buy a new game for it. Anet can say as many times as it wants that $50 is the price of HoT and core GW2 is free, but anyone with some business sense knows better.

I’m not pre-purchasing because I just don’t like the model. Pre-order, maybe, if I had more information about the game.

Random.4691:

I’ll probably wait until the last possible minute just so I have a better idea of what exactly I’m buying and possible player feed back.

I’ll be doing the same, but I’m glad that they responded positively to the player feedback.

Thanks for the update Gail! This is a very nice addition.

ASP.8093:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I did a PvP ranking here. Wonder what are your thoughts as mesmers?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-landscape-Upheaval-Rise-of-the-Mesmers/first#post5183292

You’ve been promoting the heck out of that awful thread all over the place. Just stop, please. Nobody’s gonna take the bait and, whoever you are, you’re not nearly amazing enough to predict the whole meta without testing anything first.

He does this all the time. Once he gets an idea, he needs to post it in every forum possible. Remember the painful Reaper threads?

warbignime.4610:

Zanshin.5379:

warbignime.4610:

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really?

Still missing the point.

What’s wrong with waiting to see how much content there actually is before buying the expac? Some people like to blindly believe what they’re told, some like to wait until they have real concrete information.

I’m fine with people waiting to make decision, but I just can not stand people who just straight says HoT does not worth 50$. Maybe MMORPG is not your thing and you can not get 50$ worth out of a mmo expansion. But you can not tell me or any other people that they will not get 50$ worth of entertainment out of HoT.

I don’t think anyone is saying what values others will get. You’re posts here have been directly attacking those who are stating that they don’t think that they will get $50 worth of gameplay out of the game. Do you really believe that your opinion is more valuable than theirs?

warbignime.4610:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

Of course, because most people are simply wanting to know that the expansion is worth that $50.

It’s not so much the price, as the information about the product.

When will people who are defending Anet and the pricing realize this?

So since what they want is information… when HoT comes out they’ll have that information from other players and reviews. So yes, most people will end up buying it.

Those who aren’t buying because they can’t afford/don’t want to pay $50 for any kind of expansion will end up not buying it until it becomes cheaper – likely a couple months after HoT’s release, unless sales are terrible or we hit some seasonal sale (anniversary, holidays, etc.).

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really? If that’s the case then MMORPG is just not the game type for you. Also 50$ is half day of work at minimal wager, the only ones that can not afford it are students.

You talk about HoT as if it is a stand-alone game. It is not. It is a fraction of what GW2 is, much closer in amount of content to the Living Story. Based on the content announced, I doubt I would get $50 worth of entertainment out of HoT specifically.