Guild Wars 2

Crystal Reid.2481:

Dalanor.5387:

Crystal Reid.2481:

Nick.6972:

Just please top with all this Casual vs Hardcore.
Just because I’m able to play few hours in a week doesn’t mean I like hand holding and hate challenging and punishing content.
Likewise, I could be playing 12 hours/day for 2 years straight role playing and exploring without even touching dugeons, fractals, spvp or wvw.

I’m a few pages/days behind, but I would like to bring up this post again for the sake of keeping things on track.

I’ve seen the terms casual and hardcore thrown around a bunch in this thread. Those terms are too loaded and are going to have different meanings for different players. This thread is about brainstorming what raids could be in GW2.

Instead I propose we stick to using our own experiences as a gamer with regards to skill and play time when it comes to raiding.

Crystal! While you are here i would like to ask something.
Regarding to raids players would make bigger efforts to be succesfull, but what about time investment? Do you find it acceptable that raids are at least 1 hour long or you (ANet) wish to tailor it for casual players who has less playtime a week?
Oh another one. Weekly resets? Maybe only gate the rewards so players who run it for challenge or whatever they can still run through the content and practice.

It’s hard to comment on time investments because there’s no real answer to that. Every one has different play times. I’ve seen screenshots of players with over 10,000 hours played on their main character. Whereas I’ve only got about 800 hours on my main. Skill is also going to play an important role here too. A skilled group of players will be able to defeat a boss in fewer attempts, resulting in needing to spend less time within the raid.

Ideally, raiding should be about challenge, not time.

A very skilled group of players that might only be able to raid one night per week could potentially progress through a raid instance slower than a group of lesser skilled players that can play 4 nights per week. And yes, a group of very skilled players that have a lot of time are going to progress through the instance the fastest.

Yeah i understand you, but my question was more like about how big the instances would be. Think about WoW’s Ulduar or ICC. Even with good gear and team it took hours to complete which would be a lot considering how fast paced the combat is in GW2.
This is only an issue of course if you lack the time to play, thats why i highly suggest the progress saving and weekly resets so such players can keep up with others and won’t get in a disadvantage with rewards.

Crystal Reid.2481:

Resets are a much easier topic to discuss because they are somewhat less time involved. So let’s talk about that, and here are some questions for you guys to answer:

• How often should raids in GW2 reset?
• Should we also include the option to extend lockouts for groups that progress slower?

Weekly, at the same time as guild missions to keep up some consistency in such things especially if it becomes a guild restricted thing.
Hmm i would say no to this. Correct me if i’m wrong, but without the ability to continue the progress after a week should encourage the group to step up and try to beat it next time. Of coures, life is a birch (old sylvary proverb, don’t infract me) and sometime you can’t play. Thats life. On the bright side you may fight against a certain boss again and get the exact reward you want.

Crystal Reid.2481:

Nick.6972:

Just please top with all this Casual vs Hardcore.
Just because I’m able to play few hours in a week doesn’t mean I like hand holding and hate challenging and punishing content.
Likewise, I could be playing 12 hours/day for 2 years straight role playing and exploring without even touching dugeons, fractals, spvp or wvw.

I’m a few pages/days behind, but I would like to bring up this post again for the sake of keeping things on track.

I’ve seen the terms casual and hardcore thrown around a bunch in this thread. Those terms are too loaded and are going to have different meanings for different players. This thread is about brainstorming what raids could be in GW2.

Instead I propose we stick to using our own experiences as a gamer with regards to skill and play time when it comes to raiding.

Crystal! While you are here i would like to ask something.
Regarding to raids players would make bigger efforts to be succesfull, but what about time investment? Do you find it acceptable that raids are at least 1 hour long or you (ANet) wish to tailor it for casual players who has less playtime a week?
Oh another one. Weekly resets? Maybe only gate the rewards so players who run it for challenge or whatever they can still run through the content and practice.

Raid CDI started 4 days ago …
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

Balsa.3951:

First Raid encounter should be Zaithan

reason is he already has a great build up with the PS secondly he is already designed and look awesome. Third reason the end of PS was a big disappointment and we all love a rematch with him.

Encounter with him in detail I’m not sure yet but i would love if player who be killed by him become his servants. Powerfull servants so that with every dead player the fight become much harder.

Yes, yes, so much yes! But it’s more likely that we will fight against Mordremoth or another dragon, possibly Kralkatorrik.

Naetell.3815:

Dalanor.5387:

Exactlly this mindset what frustrates a lot of regular forum users from the Dungeon sub. People in the CDI requires challenging content meanwhile want beat it no matter what they use (gear and build), how many player they have (scaling), what skill they have (pug friendly) therefore turn the whole challenging content into non-challenging.
These proposals aren’t request for challenging content just for a different content that has the same “gimme reward now when i push the i win button” difficulty.
Honorable mention to the exceptions again.

Seen this multiple times in this thread now and would like to post the following clarification:

RE: Difficulty

Allowing content to be scalable; completable with multiple builds, class combinations, gear sets, and whatnot, says nothing about the difficulty of said content.
It is well within the realm of possibility to create a challange with more than one solution.

As multiple people have now voiced said strange comparison between X and Y are the reasons the game isn’t difficult and referenced the dungeon subforums, it is far more likely that this is an idea permeating within the dungeon subforum and not elsewhere in the game. This is not a development problem.

RE: People outside of the Dungeon subforum community

They are not poor players, or whatever. This has never been kitten vs them issue.
Please focus on the raiding, not the players. This is not a trial, this is a game development discussion.

As currently is, dungeons can be beaten in multiple ways. Being full tanky or full offensive works as well and everything in between. But … The problem is, as i interpret the suggestions, that people wish for mish-mash so called “playhowiwant” builds should be viable or simply optimal. You know, no logical choice in traits and skills and little to no synergy. Also about the statement that build choice doesn’t affect difficulty watch this golden piece material please. Slightly outdated but still entertaining.

Scaling would be just bad. First, it would be a nightmare to balance it out. It’s can be an issue already if they tailor it to lvl80 exotic players with a fix number (let’s say 15 players) and now if you add low lvl characters and less than 15 players … Ahh just no.
Secondly it removes a big chunk of competitive potential from the game mode.
You made a world record with a full raid? Yay, you are great!
You made a world record with 5 people? Let me worship you!

Everybody is aware of how the average player performs in GW2, right? No need to
exaggerate, they aren’t that skilled, simple as that. I’m not sure that this is the playerbase ANet should cater with raids even if it’s the majority. No elitism included.

Now let’s pour everyting together and … Where is the challenge if such design points will become a thing? Get my point?

tl;dr:
1. Optimized builds works now and should be work in raids as well.
2. Scaling shouldn’t be an option due to above mentioned reasons.
3. Difficulty should be at least that hard as in other instanced contents.

Naetell.3815:

I’m pretty sure a lot of people would flip the table due to these.
2-3 hour raids are way too long to this game with this fast paced combat and that amount of gold generated out of thin air is just too much if it’s not weekly gated.

You wouldn’t have to spend all 2-3 hours in there in go. Raids in other games save your progress, there’s no reason why GW2 wouldn’t be able to.[/quote]

Agree, i hope ANet manage to implement a way to save progress.

Waikd.4632:

Regarding the reward progression of raid encounters:

I believe there should be:
1. Consistently high (monetary) rewards.

• Doing difficult content with an organized group should be flat out the best way to make money in GW2. There must be a significant difference in compensation between rubbing your face on the keyboard in a zerg (e.g. halloween content, event farm trains, EoTM), and actual difficult content.

• Say a player on his own, doing easy content, can make 10-13g per hour. A raid which is expected to last 2.5 – 3 hours, and has an entrance fee of 10g per person could for example then easily reward 50g per person, or items that can be sold for an equivalent value of 50g. Rewards that could be considered here are ascended armour inscriptions.

I’m pretty sure a lot of people would flip the table due to these.
2-3 hour raids are way too long to this game with this fast paced combat and that amount of gold generated out of thin air is just too much if it’s not weekly gated.

Star Ace.5207:

snip

Make your own groups i guess and organize it by yourself? The only excluding factor would be the guild restriction if it gets implemented that way. Otherwise get a guild or just simply be social and get friends. It’s an MMO anyway.

If the problem here now for you actually is the challenge of the content compared to the rest of the game then why not turn on the “man mode” and beat it? As bad it sounds “casual raids” shouldn’t even exist. Raids are a step up in difficulty compared to other instanced contents just by the sheer amount of players involved which needs a lot more coordination and planning. At least at the initial introduction of the content.

If you are interested in challenging content you play for fun and play it anyway

If you are interested in rewards (which if i had to bet wouldn’t be that great except if we get skins), you know, if you want to achieve or get something maybe work for it.

Exactlly this mindset what frustrates a lot of regular forum users from the Dungeon sub. People in the CDI requires challenging content meanwhile want beat it no matter what they use (gear and build), how many player they have (scaling), what skill they have (pug friendly) therefore turn the whole challenging content into non-challenging.
These proposals aren’t request for challenging content just for a different content that has the same “gimme reward now when i push the i win button” difficulty.
Honorable mention to the exceptions again.

No offense, this is just another psychological issue that can be solved by only yourself. Play it for fun or play it for the reward. If none of them interests you, leave it. If you force yourself anyway, that just your problem.

moiraine.2753:

Dalanor.5387:

Balsa.3951:

I have a question

Ppl say nobody should be carried/ pull there weight in those raids.

So how is that monitored/ controlled ?

Without a dps meter how we know who is been carried by 20 people?

By not inviting strangers in the group and play with people who you know well.

Raids must never be made only for people that you know.They have to be made with having in mind the pugs too.You can’t know every random pug that you invite your group out there.

Dps meter/Recount and inspect function is a must for a MMO.If it lacks those things then you can’t be certain who you will be grouped with.In other MMOs i can fast look through a few tabs – gear/achievements/progression + dps meter.

Pugs will be able to do such content after a while when tactics become well known and they get the neccessary equipment (at least in other games but for a degree it’s true in GW2 too, just think about Teq and PVT gear). Hell after a year pugs are still unable to do Teq most of the time not to mention the Wurm …
Back in the days we could manage to do even 25 man raids in WoW because we socialized and keep contact with people who we liked and has at least a decent skill to go through content together. If something RL issue kept someone away of course a pug was invited with a proper advertisement and filtering.

But sadly the proposals here mostly wish for such “hard” content where everybody is able to join with every kind of build and skill level and experience and still go through it which i find both saddening and hilarious. Either it’s hard or so pug friendly that they faceroll through it easily. Both simply can’t happen. Period.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Can we get back to talking about the two main topics we are focusing on please.

Specifically:

1: Progression
2: Foundational raiding mechanics based on the core combat and movement of GW2.

Chris

1. Skins, other visual effects upon further completition (the infusion idea that came up multiple times), maybe vanity items. Titles based on achievements and achievements that enforces proper playing (eg: Flawless Defense, Above the Waves at Teq) instead of party griefing and neglecting group succes (eg: Tail Flail at Teq).

2. I’ll ask a question instead. Do you find the 5 target aoe cap on buffs and boons a proper mechanic in raid environment? Wouldn’t that cause problems in party compositions and design overall? What i mean currently 1 warrior per group is essential if you want to buff your whole raid or guardian per group is essential if you want to cover defensive abilities and so on. Of course it’s only problematic when every raid member is at the same place but i hope you get what i mean.

ps: Fix the camera please. :/

Balsa.3951:

I have a question

Ppl say nobody should be carried/ pull there weight in those raids.

So how is that monitored/ controlled ?

Without a dps meter how we know who is been carried by 20 people?

By not inviting strangers in the group and play with people who you know well.

Crysto i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

That CDI sums up to:

“Lets ask our casual playerbase to help give input on hardcore content. Players who have no idea of what they want and are locusts who will only do instanced ‘hard’ content once and never see it again.”

Yea that’ll turn out well.

I would just to add that these kind of players not only don’t understand basic mechanics but constantly bashing meta gameplay which obviously they didn’t understand as well so any suggestion given by them would be just a mess.
Of course honorable mention to the ones who are exceptions from the above.

I would die for some raid content in this game but given the direction this “discussion” is going i’m starting to going against the idea. :/

Look, a bingo thread.

@OP: Did you passed 100 hours played time yet? Type ingame the /age command and write the results here. Thanks!

Lian Olsam.9541:

imho have less options isnt a reward but punishment, i’d like to have the chance to choise what can i play, today i wanna be zerk i play zerk, tomorrow i wanna support then i’ll go support, the day after i wanna use my conditiomancer, then i go conditions… have a choice is EVER better than doesent have it… options make game more deep and funny…
onestly after 2 years have another content with zerk only isn’t really a news, but gain a new kind of gameplay should be like have a real fresh air, and will make happy everyone, because man, if u wanna keep play zerk u can, and ppl like me would like to change will be able to…

You can still complete the content with any gear you want. Don’t need to exaggerate non-existant issues to prove your point.
As others said above you should have realized in the past two years that gear is only affects two things.
1. Damage type (power vs. condi).
2. Selfishness (personal defense vs. damage output).

Control and support comes from every other source like skills and traits.
Content should be able to finished both in full offensive builds (aka “zerkers”) and in full defensive ones and ofc everything in between IF the group is coordinated enough.

Palador.2170:

How about taking it a step further and taking the full PvP build idea for raids?

Everyone is auto-set to level 80, with all normal traits unlocked, just like in PvP. Gear works the same as well. Thus, anyone can quickly whip up a character and throw them into raids, or set up a character with a raid build and gear that doesn’t match their PvE build/gear.

Of course, this has problems, but we can solve that too. In fact, we can solve two problems at the same time. Problem one is people that don’t know what they’re doing getting into raids. Problem two is that the devs are going to face a period of learning as they implement raids. So, we make the first three or so raids a learning experience for both the players and devs. The devs get to try a few things and see how they work before cranking them up to 11 for later raids, which will be harder. The players gain items that must be thrown into the Mystic Forge to create a “key” of sorts that they need to have on them to get into the later raids. (I’d suggest the key be Accountbound, but arguments can be made for Soulbound.)

I would also like to say that I really like the idea of non-equipment keys of some sort needed to progress through a series of raids. This creates some of the benefits of a gear treadmill without most of the downsides of it.

That would remove the option of quick weapon swapping out of combat. I dislike to remove mechanics so nope.
A simple stat boost wouldn’t be enough upon entering the instance? Similarly how the upscaling works in WvW and LS instances.

dlonie.6547:

rollnburn.6273:

Get out of my dungeons I don’t wanna “look” for people that are trying to rip me off my money. YOU want to charge people for letting them into your party? Sure form you party outside the dungeon. If I want to earnestly look for other players I don’t want to find parties that will kick me if I don’t pay their fee, seriously this is a problem. Let us live you petty thieves preying on naive newbies.

Dude….the requirements are clearly written in the LFG description for these groups. Read them. If you don’t like the terms of the party, don’t join and start your own LFG. Pretty simple solution — no rage necessary.

Reading seemed it was too confusing to new players so we changed the LFG tool to only include pictograms. Sincerely.

Arena Net

Blaeys.3102:

You may not have intended it, but your post comes across a little insulting.

Especially stuff like this:

“We do all these things in organized dungeon groups already. You should try it.”

You need to tone it down and respect other people’s right to their opinions a little more.

This needs to be a balanced discussion where we have civil conversations about topics. Insults and talking down to people works counter to that idea.

How about to defend your points instead of being offensive towards him? He actually pointed out issues in your proposal.

guardian.6489:

Dalanor.5387:

guardian.6489:

It would solve the stupid issue of trying to burn away 1-2 stacks of defiance with some members of the group then use your best CC on the boss without accidently wasting it with another CC you wanted to use to get rid of the defiance stacks.

Does the word “coordination” mean something to you? You should need that in raids.

Ya but Defiance takes way too much coordination for little reward. You basically have to make sure your entire group uses PRECISELY the perfect amount of CCs to burn away Defiance then one person has to use just the right CC before anyone else screws it up. And all that is just to use one knockback/knockdown/etc. Maybe you could argue for certain encounters forcing that level of coordination is ideal but most of the time people just pretend the boss has stability.

Conski Deshan.2057:

guardian.6489:

It would solve the stupid issue of trying to burn away 1-2 stacks of defiance with some members of the group then use your best CC on the boss without accidently wasting it with another CC you wanted to use to get rid of the defiance stacks.

Groups already have this down to a T. In every dungeon I’ve run for weeks everyone has know to burn down the defiance stacks then let me or another ele fire off Icebow 5, sometimes it takes me a few moments to notice the stacks are gone and even then no one accidently wastes the CC chance.

Deep Freeze ignores Defiance, that’s why everyone uses it.

Coordination. If you play like monkeys with anger issues and just slam repeatedly your keyboard of course it won’t work.
But i agree the incentive to use it often is lacking especially in high damage parties where you can just blow up the boss after a Deep freeze.

It has a 5 second duration and keeps the boss in place, thats why people use it. Also it works as every other control skill. Without Defiance stacks it does CC, without it it just strips off one stack. Please don’t make suggestions if you don’t even know how basic mechanics works in the game.

guardian.6489:

It would solve the stupid issue of trying to burn away 1-2 stacks of defiance with some members of the group then use your best CC on the boss without accidently wasting it with another CC you wanted to use to get rid of the defiance stacks.

Does the word “coordination” mean something to you? You should need that in raids.

Winteeeeeeeer … Don’t be a kazul and leave!

maha.7902:

I honestly get kind of worried that ANet will take on board these “make it so X and Y active defense mechanics don’t work on boss Z” suggestions. I mean if you make a game with active combat reliant on combat awareness, why would you then punish people who have the reflexes to actually dodge boss choreographs?

And if a raid is going to force us to spread out in a fight it would be nice if it was for a legitimate reason and not just "well, the community didn’t like meleeing so let’s have it so everyone runs around with ranged weapons because raid boss A has big scary one-shot pulsing PbAoE of doom.

Taking feedback from the community is good but I think the sillier ideas or ones fueled by resentment and completely disregarding sense should be filtered.

I really hope Crystal and Chris and other devs see through the lines and just dodges these issues to not confront with players to keep the discussion alive.
But yeah, all this melee punishing ideas are worrying a bit.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Dalanor.5387:

I would label “daddy joe” as a casual player and it’s a non-issue from a design standpoint. Thats why i said weekly or monthly resets are fine. Well, weekly is still better to let other non-casuals (read: people with more time to invest in the game) progress.
Or maybe implement and ID system as in WoW and save progress for each individual player.

Daddy joe could be hardcore daddy joe as well. Everybody grows up, most people have less time the older they get. He might be a champion-raider but one with little time left. Why would you exclude him?

He wouldn’t necessary get excluded from the content. Depending on the encounters length a week should be enough to complete it especially with saved progess. Don’t think about 10 hour long instances with a dozen boss and trash run though the other way around should be avoided too with half an hour long rushes (before farm state, thats another issue when that happens).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Already started from a casual non-hardcore non-programmer point of view.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

runeblade.7514:

• Stacking- What steps should be taken to remove stacking or should it even be removed at all?

To remove it, I suspect the entire engine would have to be re-written.

To discourage it? Enemies which can pierce through any number of players with a swing rather than hit just one. Stack at your own peril.

Ehm, stacking has nothing to do with cleave attacks. Guardian’s aegis would still negate the damage despite it hits multiple players. Dodge still negates every damage. Active defenses still negates every damage. Reflects and absorbs still negates every damage (lets take aside stealth patches ’kay?).
So please, please let this issue die silently in this thread since vast majority of users who comment on this topic spread only misinformation which hurts both the discussion and players who likes to melee stuff.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Imagine player daddy joe enters a raid the first time on the 25th of the month. He and his team beat the first 3 bosses, 6 still left. Daddy joe then goes on holiday / looks after his little kiddies and suddenly the month is over. Reset. All his progress gone. He only tried it once.

Why not let him try with other groups whenever he wants/can play again? A try once a month… why not?

I would label “daddy joe” as a casual player and it’s a non-issue from a design standpoint. Thats why i said weekly or monthly resets are fine. Well, weekly is still better to let other non-casuals (read: people with more time to invest in the game) progress.
Or maybe implement and ID system as in WoW and save progress for each individual player.

Crystal Reid.2481:

Leablo.2651:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Leablo.2651:

Chris, can you provide a baseline definition of “raid”? What exactly is the intention behind creating “raid” content that cannot already be expressed in terms of existing dungeons or fractals? Is it about creating another category of content that is gated to guilds?

Here you go:

‘…instanced co-operative group based ‘challenging’ content…’

Chris

This seems to conflict with the title of the thread, which implies “instanced co-operative guild based ‘challenging’ content…”

I would just like clarification on that.

Should raids be restricted to the guild level that require some form of guild activity/currency to activate/enter, or should they be accessible by anyone? What are your thoughts on that specific?

Hell no!
Squad system needs a proper revamp to be able to use it in PvE for such activities and maaaaaaaybe it will have more value in WvW as well.
That way you gate the content behind 300g so i’m not sure it’s a good idea so yeah …
But no restriction for guilds please.

Symph.8407:

Larger teams opens up possibilities for splitting the team into smaller parts, some players focusing on damaging the boss, others maybe have to defend an npc, some maybe have to deal with adds that shouldn’t be allowed to reach the boss or some other point in the room, someone might have to periodically pull a lever somewhere..
You might say these things can be done in a 5 man group, but the options are just more limited with 5 people (you can only split up in increments of 20%, while with 10 or more players, you have more options for splitting).

Got it now, thanks.

Skipping is bad, because it renders part of an instance obsolete (you know, because you skip it), and as such, the instance should be designed in either a way to prevent skipping or to make skipping meaningless.

Same as tanky builds which renders mechanics such as active defenses completely meaningless.
The way i see skipping is just another way to deal with things and honestly, killing trash is not fun after a lot of runs when the novelty wears off and they still don’t worth the effort lootwise. Back in the days Hrouda posted about the issue why they can’t really do something about this which can be read HERE.

And no one has anything against melee combat, there’s just nothing challenging about standing in a corner spamming skills while occasionally pressing “F” if someone gets downed. It’s not an interesting use of mechanics.
The boss encounters should have more focus on the use of control and support. This of course requires that the bosses are designed, so that control skills actually work on them (changing how Defiance works, or replace it with something new).

Link your participation in the most recent dungeon tournaments please. I bet you and your team was in the top 3 if encounters are that easy.
What enables “mindless corner stacking” are the powerful nature of active defenses and slow enemy attacks. Press one button, damage completely negated.
With rapid damage income you just promote passive defense, which would be a dumb idea since this isn’t what GW2’s PvE combat is about. Or at least it shouldn’t.
Tanky setups should outlive the opponent and slowly kill it, while full offensive ones just blows it up before they run out of active damage mitigation tools otherwise they just die in 1-2 hits. Everything in between well thats another issue, but thats what we call unoptimized, right?

I agree with the Defiance issue partially. They way it works with the stacks and such are great, maybe it can be reduced by one, but the incentive is nearly non-existant since a lot of ability just won’t go on cooldown if you interrupt a mob / boss (try it on an ettin with their big windup attack, it just stops for a brief moment). Thats why Deep freeze and Fear me are such great skills. 4-5 seconds of free time to dps the hell out of the boss.

NoTrigger.8396:

more difficult and challenging content for a bigger party size. more teamwork, more coordination, more mechanics… the list goes on.

Any example? Didn’t read the whole thread yet sorry.

That Guy.5704:

Also, preferably, mechanics that discourage skipping and stack-and-spank.

Removing the active use of Swiftness, Stealth and melee in general is a great idea in your opinion, am i understand this right?
Why skipping bothers you?
Why melee fighting bothers you?

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Why not let the player decide when he wants to progress? Let average Joe take a longer break and try the next bosses with some other guys.

Thats exactly what weekly / monthly resets do.

How would raids differ from Fractals apart from the bigger party size and lack of gear gating (agony resist) … ?

Vikkela.7261:

How Do You Know They Are Not Actually Carrying You?

You don’t. Thats the beauty of these debates.

ZilentNight.5089:

AC p2 Dungeon final boss no longer moves past the 3 traps. – Possibly done to prevent players from stacking on the pillars?

Done it not so long ago with stacking behind the pillar so i’m not sure what you mean here.

IPhyton.2348:

All I come to ask of the dev’s is roadmap or a direction that they are taking the game.

If that direction isn’t what players want it would alienate current and future players even more. So it actually worth them to keep their mouth shut and ANet have time to find out what they really want to do with this game.

Purple Miku.7032:

Not only that, but today in the ascalon fractal I was messin around with abe, nova and stoya and the ritual began before we were done clearing the middle of siege/mobs.

We had captain ashym in the middle with all the kitten ballistas and arrow carts etc. -.-

We didn’t even do the ritual. It did it on its own.

Thats what i would call Veteran Player Experience.

Dontkickpls, norn ranger.

Nope. Arena Net support griefers now.

Astralporing.1957:

maha.7902:

People are against instanced raids because it means they actually have to work together with people, not leech and actually do their part. They just want to do their thing and not give a **** about anyone else, and therefore because of this, nobody deserves instanced raids because how dare others expect me to pull my weight.

And that is the perfect example of the reason why i don’t want raids in this game. Because of the attitute they bring with them.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But the thought of someone desiring a part of the game specifically to exclude other players? No. Thank. You.

Exactly this. I don’t want mechanics that intentionally separate the players, but even more i don’t want the people that think such mechanics are a good idea. I started playing gw2 specifically to avoid those things.

VodCom.6924:

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering what were to happen if they were to replace word Raids with Elite Missions.

People will be much less opposed, simply because “elite mission” sounds more guild wars and less WoW than “Raids”.

Packaging and communications are important. Especially on that matter.

Agreed. Perception is part of the problem here (yes, on both sides). Additionally, avoiding the term “raid” will mean far less people will get mentally locked into preconceptions taken from WoW raiding design.

PvP and WvW already separates the community so don’t even start up this drama.
We have seen plenty of attitude issues from playhowiwants at the beginning of the revamped Teq and Marionette fights. Thanks, but no more of that.
Instanced “elite missions” ftw.

deSade.9437:

One thing I’m wondering, though: are they going to put crafting in raids? Eh? Eh? Who wants crafting in raids? I do. Badly.

That would only fit into ANet vision if it’s time gated. But yeah, that thread is full of potato and entertainment.

reMURPed.8127:

so one hour ago the patch was in very final states. and now? i guess two months is not enough to prepare everything on time.

Just imagine all those bugs! Again.

zallis.2138:

So holloween releases 21st (today), and LS comes back nov 4th (in 2 weeks) right? Cause I thought I remember reading that the releases were only one week apart and then WP said on one of his videos a couple of times that they are only one week a part.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-events-in-guildwars2/

spoj.9672:

Meanwhile in Archeage….

All because i ninja’d his fortuna mine. And i thought the GW2 community was full of children.

I hope he is just roleplaying. Oo

Colesy he just want to complain and kitten off forum users as always, don’t bother with him …

Etien.4601:

DPS traited guard is the worst class at the moment. It always has been. There is a huge CD for the aegis to refresh in a dps build and it saves you from 1 hit and that’s it. Then 80 seconds cd? Fail imo.
Let’s say you use “Shave yourselves” and you can place x2 Aegis in a row. Not recomended. I’ve seen so many failed guardian builds, sometimes I wonder if we play the same game or not lol.

Nope, necro is.
60s by default after the patch tomorrow it will be 40s on Retreat but you have your F3 your elite to refresh it and shield of the avenger as well and i don’t even mentioned mace3 or focus5 …
Save yourselves doesn’t apply aegis.
You are either a troll or a scrub. Get out of my internet.

ps: At least be accurate if you try to argue.

deSade.9437:

Is it a game catered to.. special… kids?

Yes. :/

Please be a troll. Please be a troll. Please be a troll …

Ragnarox.9601:

Its not about zerker, for me a full zerker is a waste of dps because he is downed every single blow from any boss and my time reviving them is just huge dps loss.
Yesterday i played with zerkers…4 of them were down from 3 hit even with my perma protect from hammer while i was on 50% hp. Full zerker is just for those who are lazy and dont want to make better build.

I have combo zerker, valky and knight gear. 48% crit chance 210% crit dmg, ¸18k hp and 2100 attack (without food). I menage to do pretty well, not dying and protecting allies with my shouts.

I aprove only zerker warriors, 2 in a team is a good thing. but 4 zerkers is too much and dps lose.

xDudisx.5914:

Dalanor.5387:

xDudisx.5914:

I thought gw2 goal was to let people play the way they want. In this game’s pve I actually have more strict builds than in a holy trinity based game.

That quote is misinterpreted so many times it’s not funny any more … Colin said back in the days that whatever content you play you should be rewarded too no matter what. So play how you want and get rewards for it. And as for the rest i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I’m getting a little bored of reading the same kitten.
QQ meta players just stack and dps 2 win
QQ no strategy just pure dps
QQ you not l33t you just dps.

If you think a full zerker team can be semi-afk in a dungeon and autowin, then you got carried. You were basically told to just bring dps because they didn’t consider you good enough to be trusted with anything important.

The trinity of
CC
DPS
Support
is very heavily used, and relied upon in small group content.

“ohh boss is dead before he could attack us, no fun QQ”
Did you know someone probably frost bow #5’d or a warrior used mace #5 so the boss didn’t hit you?
Did you know a thief just blinded the mob, or a guardian used zealots defense, timed perfectly?

“it doesn’t matter how long it takes, I still get my loot”
Yes, but you could take 10 minutes, instead of 20, and do something else taking 10 minutes too! ohh, you got twice as much loot? awesome!

“I’m still alive and your not!!”
yeah, but in 10s I did more damage than you did in 2 minutes. If you had the same dps, I wouldn’t be running out of “oh-kitten” buttons.

Very inclined to tell the next person who gives me some excuse along these lines to go get punted like phlunt. – Then again they may not be good enough to do LS and have no idea how fun it is to hate phlunt.

/rant

“pug” is often used as an insulting term. Could we rename them “phlunt”?

I wouldnt call ele using ice bow 5 as a CC class. Your are making a hyperbole. Is like saying guard poping up virtue F2 is a healer class. By that logic a full nomads is also dps. Or a tank in a classic holy trinity game is a dps because it does minimal dmg.

A few weeks ago people also thought FGS and norn elite was fine and working as intended, Turns out that they decided to nerf it to the ground. The game has changed and is changing based on players feedback. I’ve played a lot of other mmorpgs and gw2 has by far the most casual and too easy dungeons. When 1 player can solo or duo a 5 players content it is quite obvious the bosses mechanics are too simple, predictable and easy to counter.

Neither i or Artemis said that. Don’t need to be a kitten when you can’t read.

It worked as intended. It was just an oversight by ANet and slow reaction in regard of balance of course. That didn’t depended on player feedback, it just made PvE so frickin easy it wasn’t remotely fun nor challanging anymore. B

Can you upload your solo videos then? Or can i already check them somewhere else? I’ve soloed plenty of dungeons in WoW as well and for some weird reason a lot of people call that game the king of MMO’s. So … what now?

Healing doesn’t really need a boost. Players just need to learn finally how to play and make synergetic builds with other players instead of the “iplayhowiwant” crappiness.

xDudisx.5914:

I thought gw2 goal was to let people play the way they want. In this game’s pve I actually have more strict builds than in a holy trinity based game.

That quote is misinterpreted so many times it’s not funny any more … Colin said back in the days that whatever content you play you should be rewarded too no matter what. So play how you want and get rewards for it. And as for the rest i’ll just quote someone else from the dungeon forums.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I’m getting a little bored of reading the same kitten.
QQ meta players just stack and dps 2 win
QQ no strategy just pure dps
QQ you not l33t you just dps.

If you think a full zerker team can be semi-afk in a dungeon and autowin, then you got carried. You were basically told to just bring dps because they didn’t consider you good enough to be trusted with anything important.

The trinity of
CC
DPS
Support
is very heavily used, and relied upon in small group content.

“ohh boss is dead before he could attack us, no fun QQ”
Did you know someone probably frost bow #5’d or a warrior used mace #5 so the boss didn’t hit you?
Did you know a thief just blinded the mob, or a guardian used zealots defense, timed perfectly?

“it doesn’t matter how long it takes, I still get my loot”
Yes, but you could take 10 minutes, instead of 20, and do something else taking 10 minutes too! ohh, you got twice as much loot? awesome!

“I’m still alive and your not!!”
yeah, but in 10s I did more damage than you did in 2 minutes. If you had the same dps, I wouldn’t be running out of “oh-kitten” buttons.

Very inclined to tell the next person who gives me some excuse along these lines to go get punted like phlunt. – Then again they may not be good enough to do LS and have no idea how fun it is to hate phlunt.

/rant

“pug” is often used as an insulting term. Could we rename them “phlunt”?

xDudisx.5914:

Considering that people can solo arah, and some poeple have killed bosses naked of course people will be able to finish it with bad stats. I doesnt mean they dont need improvement.

I’m pretty sure it has more to do with player skill. Very large part of the community is unable to do such things even in berserker gear.

Lol I play a zerk ele and know how easy stuff is on zerk because it is too much effective. People clearing dungeons so fast is one problem in this game. This generate too much gold influx in the economy creating the inflation.

Same as farming bugged events and champions.

Look how the price of some precursors stabilized and even droped after FGS fix.

I doubt it’s even true or if it is, why would be that the cause?

Some bosses die so fast you dont even need to dodge, like AC final boss… you can just walk around.

You can walk around the P1 boss in every gear. Blame the game designers who made the encounters. Again it has nothing to do with the gear. Try to avoid hyperboles and fail statements at the attempts to try to prove you are right.

Again I dont see why people are against buffing other builds that are current useless/subpar.

The only subpar factor is killing time and honestly, why it bothers you?

Zero effort, just team synergy and good use of builds including passive defense stats. Indeed the run time is higher but casual runs always slower especially with the average random pug.

More on-topic. This change in PvE would make defensive builds even more faceroll than now and it would completely flip the current balance in WvW and sPvP if more heals would fly around.

xDudisx.5914:

Are you trolling? In pve anything other than zerker and assassins is useless. In spvp almost all classes are either celestial or soldier or zerker. In wvw zerg is all about soldier classes.

Ask for changes in the game is completely valid. Lol if everything was perfect and 100% ok why did we get so many changes during the last 2 years? The game needs to keep mutating and innovating.

Other stats aren’t useless, just need to be used effectively as well as berserkers.
Watch it and educate yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM

Sagat.3285:

The idea of zerk should rule is bad design just like the players who wish condition damage wasn’t a stat.

That build type just does what it should do. Burn down mobs and protect them with active defenses and proper skill uses. If you prefer facetanking watch the video above or play another game.

ps: can we avoid this weekly zerker bashing non-sense please?

OP’s post reminds me to this.
Relevant parts at 1:35-2:30 and 3:20-3:57.

I wish Arenanet would be an inexperienced, indie team made of freshly graduated youngsters instead of a 14 year old company filled with veterans so i could forgive this to them. :/

It won’t happen. The whole budget of the balance team spent on upcoming balance changes and tooltip fixes so no fun for a while again.

Lord Voldemort.6189:

You know what. I stand by my fist post. This game is the biggest joke in the world. Never have I ever played a game like this, ever. I stated before. The definition of toughness in the game is to reduce incoming damage, BS. I get ever npc in the area on me and has me downed before I can even cuss the game out. I don’t know what type of gamer Anet was targeting when they made this game, but it wasn’t my type. You know. I see now why there’s no full time free trial to this game. If people really knew how hard is was, they would never buy it. I’m sitting here right now as I’m typing this thinking that very thing. I wasted a lot of my money On a piece of poop game. Anet. You do get 1 award, and that reward is for having the worst game I ever played. Thanks a lot. But you all want to know the funniest part. I’ll still play just cause I bought it and………….. Well that’s all I can say. I bought it. Might as well get my money’s worth out of it.

Guild wars 2 is all about active defenses, thats why meta builds include full offensive setups. Toughness scales so bad, as you said too, that it not worth spending any points in it. Learn to play simply. Maybe this site will help too.

http://gw2dungeons.net/

Ropechef.6192:

Warrior Crushing blow on mace 4 will soon land 10 stacks of Vuln instead of 4…

0.o

It was a bit surprising to be honest. Oh and Retreat CD will be 40s instead of 60s, yay! Maybe ele elementals deserve a honorable mention that their skills now will be instant cast finally.

Notes by Dulfy and link to the stream here.

Illuminerdi.9153:

Dalanor.5387:

Yeah, insult me again when i’m totally on topic. It’s an old issue and Hrouda has a well detailed post about the issue. 2 years since realease and nothing changed and it’s very unlikely that it will happen soon, so the solution is in the FAQ, make your own groups.

You’re right; nothing will change, because apparently everyone has already given up…

How depressing is that?

Are you really that special or really intend to troll everybody here?
SOON. Even if you magically come up with a genius idea it would take months until it gets implemented.