Guild Wars 2

Killface.1896:

Stealth in this game is kinda of a joke,you cant brake stealth with damage or see it if even they are right next to you.

To have good kind of stealth in mmos you need to have good counters and this game have no counter at all…

i play stealth mmo game and you are right. Only Guild Wars 2 stealth have no counter.
When i first start Guild Wars 2 wvw: not even 5 minute in EB, a thief killed me in instant. I had no chance for preparation. When i was in down state: i use downstate skill and was surprise that no downstate skill can attack stealth.

Another time our server had a thief hiding inside Sm: each time thief appear, it disappear. In almost 15 min after, we found thief and killed it. Stealth take all risk from thief and make it not challenge.

Ok, again, you are right.

WvW and Spvp is a team effort mode, Not a team have everything easy mode.

I am happy for change that is coming. Team effort is good thing. Effort is challenge, not have no reward with no effort. Not have reward with no risk or little risk.

Good Job! Arena net for take serious step to make Guild Wars Challenge. (More serious step is need still)

i am hoping for some serious fix

jayson.6512:

Balancing is easier if Arenanet uses the same style in Gw1 pvp skill is different in pve and wvw since WvW is the unbalance pvp and the problem in pvp is bunker builds go full bunker and they still deal good damage but the culprit is Condition damage 1 stat to rule them all unlike berserker you have to invest in 3 stats Power-Prec-Ferocity. to balance that in spvp you have to reduce the condition damage of amulets that gives vit-toughness and buff the vit or toughness because you want to go bunker you’re not suppose to deal damage that good, zerker builds are having a hard time killing you but also you will have a hard time killing them but another culprit is the condition stacking the more the stacks the more it hurts it should be remove to the game and instead replace it with condition duration that we already has. i have more ideas but i think Arenanet should look into other MMO games that has elemental damage is try to apply it into GW2.

i agree with you. I research: Guild Wars kept it simple and did best to keep profession true to their identity. Guild Wars 2 have too much of everything and give too much in result make profession like warrior profession not true to their identity and also make Guild War true purpose: keep game simple and balance a foreign game.
That explain why is Guild Wars 2 Warrior is major different than Guild Wars Warrior.

Example: like translation of a book- have too much translation, add too much translation will cause it loose it true translation. It is good to improve something old but improving too much and adding too much, destroy it identity and it true purpose.

It is sad but still I thank you for make me understand now

BlackTruth.6813:

DarkSyze.8627:

Ok simple;

Guild Wars Warrior: Risk and Sacrifice vs Guild Wars 2 Warrior: Survivalbility

Guild Wars Warrior take risk in battle and is not afraid of their survivalbilty to even sacrifice their lives to protect and save others… while Guild Wars 2 Warrior will not take risk or even will sacrifice themselves for others because as long they have Suvivalbiltiy on their side waiting, they can easily and quickly disengage and escape.

I suggest Guild Wars 2 Warrior to be more of a risk taker profession and a self sacrificing profession instead of a survival only profession. I also suggest Warrior survivalbiltiy: mobility and versatility be decrease by 50% to encourage them to engage more instead of disengage.

do you understand now?

There are builds for that. I know what you’re trying to say but making this happen depends on the player controlling the Warrior.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6152446

It’s close to what you’re saying. There is risk involved except the mind set isn’t “to protect” but instead it is kill or be killed “all-in” in spvp.

yes very close; nice video. You understand, Than You!

Raiff.6742:

This is stupid. You want to remove survivability, mobility, and versatility. So you want to make it a class that walks in and gets killed over and over with no hope of success. THAT IS NOT THE WARRIOR WAY AT ALL!

Soldiers on D-Day went in knowing the odds were stacked against them, but fought hard not to just sacrifice themselves, but to try and achieve a goal. They used mobility (ships, ground movement skills), Versatility (various weapons) and survivability (med packs, communications equipment) to attain a victory.

Warriors in the Norse tradition used specialized ships, stealth, and tactics to move through enemy lands (mobility); Various weapons like bows and light hammers/axes to engage the enemy (versatility); Salted meats, skins of mead and purified water, and spare cloth for bandages (Survivability) to achieve victories.

A warrior is not just a mindless machine sent in to do some damage and die as you would suggest. A warrior uses evasion, strength, and every skill he/she can to defeat their enemy. Patton said “An army does not win by dieing for its country, but by making the other army die for their country.”

Warriors are not and never have been martyrs simply set out to die. You want that, make a healing Guardian with no armor or trinkets.

How is it not the warrior way when a warrior can chose to disengage whenever it feel it risk? How can a warrior be a hero if it doesn’t risk their life for others? How can a warrior be a hero for their country if they run away when they at risk? A warrior is not a machine, A warrior is not a robot; they are human just like us. They feel pain and suffer like us human. If we as soldier suffer from battle; they should suffer same; not be Invincible like a super human.

Let me ask you something, who would you honor?: a warrior who fight to the end or a warrior who run away from the battle just because they feel at risk? Who would be a hero for their country? : the warrior who fight to the end or the warrior who run away because they feel at risk?

I just would want arena net to make the warrior what it suppose to be: a warrior who is not afraid to take risk and will sacrifice everything for others and not have choice to disengage and not have choice of extreme survivalbilty.

Again,

Guild Wars 2 Warriors need to be risk taking profession and a sacrificing profession. They should not have choice to disengage just because they feel risk but fight to the end. Afraid of take risk do not belong to a Warrior. Afraid to die do not belong to warrior, Afraid to sacrifice do not belong to warrior. Warrior is not afraid of anything.

Honor and be a Hero is for soldier who take risk, sacrifice life for others and not afraid to die.

Guild Wars 2 Warrior should be same: No exception.

It do not make sense for Guild Wars 2 Warrior to have extreme:very high survivalbiltiy: who do not sacrifice, who is give high reward: high mobility/versatility to run away from risk.

Photonman.6241:

Lotta numbers in this thread… but I think it boils down to ’DON’T LEAVE! We love you!’

very caring player

Naqaj.6219:

Herre you go, OP. This thread is going nowhere fast, but atleast you can learn something useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

interesting information

Ok simple;

Guild Wars Warrior: Risk and Sacrifice vs Guild Wars 2 Warrior: Survivalbility

Guild Wars Warrior take risk in battle and is not afraid of their survivalbilty to even sacrifice their lives to protect and save others… while Guild Wars 2 Warrior will not take risk or even will sacrifice themselves for others because as long they have Suvivalbiltiy on their side waiting, they can easily and quickly disengage and escape.

I suggest Guild Wars 2 Warrior to be more of a risk taker profession and a self sacrificing profession instead of a survival only profession. I also suggest Warrior survivalbiltiy: mobility and versatility be decrease by 50% to encourage them to engage more instead of disengage.

do you understand now?

Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become*”.

“Warriors are masters of martial skills. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor”.

compare

Guild Wars

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior

“Warriors rely on stout hearts, brute strength, and melee weapons to subdue their enemies and protect their allies. They generally disdain long-range warfare, preferring instead to charge directly into the fray swinging their weapon of choice. They can take a beating unlike anyone else. Warriors are equally comfortable wielding axe, hammer, or sword, though many choose to master one weapon over all others. Many Warrior skills require adrenaline, which builds up during combat to enable those skills, and usually results in major damage. Defensive tactics help the Warrior to avoid damage and protect allies, but Strength is the Warrior’s biggest asset, allowing this hero to do more damage with every attack”

“.The mightiest of mighty, the bravest of the brave, the Warrior is the master of melee combat and heavy armor”

Are they same? Do you see any different between? which warrior is true warrior profession? Which profession is true soldier Profession?

They are not same. There is major different between them.

What is brave? “feeling or showing no fear : not afraid” http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brave

What is a warrior? “a proud and brave warrior” http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/warrior

What is proud? “feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself” http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proud

What is honor? “good reputation : good quality or character as judged by other people”

What is soldier? “An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soldier

What is hero? “A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life” http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heroes

Ok, do you see different between them?

Guild Wars Warrior: is a honorable, loyal and devoted soldier who show no fear and is not afraid of suffering from damage and attack. Warrior motivation and ambition come from their strength and will sacrifice themselves for other; risk their lives, even if to die for other. Warrior can attack long distance with long distance weapon to keep pressure off if face with too much pressure. Warrior also have defensive weapon to keep pressure off and to use to protect other soldier.

Final, Guild Wars warrior is a profession who strong, brave, courage. They will risk their lives to protect other. If their risk involve them to risk their lives to save other, than they will. In end; death or alive, they will be award as a hero.

(Warrior Mission Code; To Serve, To Protect, To Defend, To Rescue, To Risk, To Sacrifice)
—————————————————————-

Major different between Guild Wars Warrior and Guild War 2 Warrior

1. Guild Wars Warrior risk their life and sacrifice their to serve other, to protect others, to defend others and to rescue others. Death or Alive; they are honored as Hero.

2. Guild Wars 2 Warriors protect others, defend others, rescue others and abandon others when risk is high.

A. Guild Wars Warrior is design to Engage, Risk, Sacrifice
B. Guild Wars 2 Warrior is design to Engage, Survive, Abandoned/Escape if risk is present.

In end,

i believe with investigation and report:

Guild Wars Warrior is True Warrior, True Soldier, Hero and Brave.

“A Warrior Is The Last Man Standing”

“The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue”

“A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles.

“Being brave means to know something is scary, difficult, and dangerous, and doing it anyway, because the possibility of winning the fight is worth the chance of losing it.

Question/Suggestion

Question; can arena net make Guild Wars 2 Warrior Sacrificing instead of surviving?
Suggestion: decrease all warrior survival design- include mobility/versatility by 50%. Increase all defense design by 25%

what you player think? opinion/critic welcome

xDudisx.5914:

It will be for all the classes that use the stability buff.

It is a great change. Making pve a bit harder. WvW hammer train will not be imune to ccs anymore. And for spvp stability will have more counters now.

I agree same.

what surprise me about this game is how many skill do what they are not suppose to do. It is sad because that is what many other mmo game company call BROKEN; it should not be doing that, so what are their action? they fix it! That is what need be done! fix the problem, fix what is happening incorrectly. IF the description do not say it doing it, it should not do it, period! That is what call serious company who is serious about fixing serious problems, and fixing broken problems.

Not ignore it, Not ignore player who is telling them that something is not working; broken, Not ignore player who care for problem to be fix. Example; you design and program a door to open wide when you push a button, so you push the button for the door to open wide, but instead it open small; what should you do? ignore it? find it ok; cool? fix the problem? or continue to ignore it and find it ok?

Mmo game company pay a lot of money to people to find bug, to find what is broken, to find problem so they can fix it. Also, if game company do not want hire; pay people to find bug, find problem and report bug, report problem than the only one who is left is their player. Their player pay a lot of money to help the game company stay in business. It is not even their player job to find and report bug and problem in the game but they do anyway, so the game company can fix what is broken and fix problem so the game can improve and be prosper better.

Player find and report bug and problem to game company Free Charge; why is not game company not listen, not care and refuse to work with player? continue to ignore player Free Charge to help make game better and improve?

You need to work with us gamer arena net. Ignore will not work for Guild Wars 2, ignore will not work for us player who sacrifice time, sacrifice effort to help you find and report bug and problem in the game. We gamer are serious to see Guild Wars 2 do better and improve, we need serious action from you in return.

That is all us player want from you. that is all

I agree Zefrost, What nerf? where is nerf?

kta, first you post problem with player spamming skill make harrassing in no combat area, than you change story and defend player who do like pvp or rp; which side you are in?

Either you are for player harrassing in no combat area or against player for harrassing in no combat area? I like your first story for against player harrassing in no combat area, so that mean; any suggestion that will prevent these harrassing players from harrassing using skills in no combat area, is ok.

You can not be a good guy and a bad guy at the same time.

Knighthonor.4061:

sometimes people like to roleplay that they are dueling. I dont see a problem with that. its fun actually.

it is in no combat area, should it be too obvious that no combat area mean not using combat skill in no combat area? I do not get it at all.

Why did arena net put civilian in area and to allow player to use combat skill in their area? Do no combat area+civilian deserver peace and quiet? Or do they not mean nothing at all or have no imporatance at all?

it is in no combat area, should it be too obvious that no combat area mean not using combat skill in no combat area? I do not get it at all.

Example; Would it be ok to roleplay dueling inside civilian area? Why put civilian in area for peace and allow player to use combat skill? peace need quiet, if want use combat skill-go to combat area and make all noise want.

No combat areas mean no combat areas. I am serious, why use word if not mean it?

The only solution i see to this problem is for arena net to restrict all attack skill from attivate in no combat area. Square Enix and other have that in their game, arena net can do same.

kta.6502:

DarkSyze— I’m referring to areas where there isn’t any combat (the cities, Camp Resolve, etc).

The only solution i see to this problem is for arena net to restrict all attack skill from attivate in no combat area. Square Enix and other have that in their game, arena net can do same.

Turamarth.3248:

DarkSyze.8627:

Read the post again especially this part:

kta.6502:

For those who don’t know: Skill spamming is when people are continually using special effect attacks (like the Elementalist’s fire attacks and Tornado) on players who are talking to each other in non-combat areas.

Skill Spamming,

“In role-playing video games spam usually takes the form of repeated use of one powerful or low-cost skill or spell”.

“In role-playing video games spam usually takes the form of repeated use of one powerful or low-cost skill or spell. Buff, debuff, and condition spamming has the goal of making the player or his allies invulnerable, or the enemy too weak to react. More common is direct-damage spamming, where a single attack or spell, which has a low casting-cost and recharge time, is used continuously”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28gaming%29

kta; you should not be surprise by that; arena net design game for skill spamming. Especially they design skill with no-little cooldown very high damage that can be spam over and over. I unserstand your frustration; that why i find spamming in this game a joke.

Why do you think many class can instant kill over and over again? do you think if arena net want to make these class challenge by not spam instant kill skill, they would fix it long time? Yes! but they will not because that is what they design game to be; spam with little cooldown= fast everything.

2 suggestion

1. accept it
2. use time to play mmo game that use challenge model instead spam model=high percent win

i agree with you Jelzouki. I never hear about 6 month except here. Ok i will not compare with other game, that is why pvp player do not feel interest to play pvp because of long wait=not vigilant to fix or tweak game with balance and fix problem. Vigilant is important for any game company to be serious for improve game and fix problem in game. 6 month is not vigilant at all.

Example; If landlord in house tell you that you will have to wait for 6 month to fix problem in the house, would you be ok?

Be vigilant is to keep update frequent, not wait, wait long time. I do not understand, pvp is very popular game mode in mmo game, why it is not need frequent update in this game? also, why it is not need frequent attention in this game? i do not get it at all.

If something is popular, why not be vigilant to make it grow?

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze.8627:

If there is no challenge after might nerf, answer is No!

Nerf mean serious change to make challenge, No challenge= No serious change

What is it with you and this “challenge” stuff… I do not think you know what this really means

On topic – The might nerf was minor and damage is not the reason those build are “meta”

I feel like those builds are dominating in their specific role which is team support and point holding – they have plenty of condition clears and heals which has nothing to do with might

I do not know what challenge really mean?

Example; If i want peace, do it mean i do not know what peace really mean?
Example 2; If i want happiness, do it mean i do not know what happiness really mean?

Do every word i write, do not really mean anything? I do not understand why you think like that. I do research before i use word, if i use word, is because i mean it

Last; here is challenge definition; “something that needs a lot of skill, energy, and determination to deal with or achieve, especially something you have never done before and will enjoy doing”

Here is key word to the word challenge- “need a lot of skill”, “need a lot of energy”, “need a lot of determination to deal with”, “need a lot of determination to achieve”, “especially never done before and will enjoy”

“……..need a lot", “…….. will enjoy” is main key word. , No need a lot, No Challenge! .No enjoy fight, No Challenge!

Definition continue- “(the situation of being faced with) something that needs great mental or physical effort in order to be done successfully and therefore tests a person’s ability”

“….. needs great physical effort" is main key word. No great physical effort fight, No Challenge!

Instant kill is Not Challenge!, Always stealth is Not Challenge, Always Instant burst is Not challenge!, Always everything ready, is Not Challenge, Always easy access, is Not Challenge! Always repeat same thing over and over, is Not Challenge!

That is what i mean when i say Nerf mean serious change to make challenge, No challenge= No serious change

These class have instant everything, always ready everything, always easy access to everything, everything everything there for them with no-very little preparation.

If arena net did nerf these class; there would be change so they can be challenge class?. If you still want to say these class were/are nerf, where is change for them to be a challenge class? If you still want to say these class were/are nerf, where is effort for them to be challenge class?

So by dictionary definition; thief, ele and engineer are not challenge class.

Yes, dictionary and me really mean what challenge mean.

sorudo.9054:

….i seriously hope you’re not suggesting big flat screens all over LA……to much football-like for me….ugh…

something close like that. Maybe 1-2 screen in LA to watch live stream? Maybe a showroom area in LA?

If there is no challenge after might nerf, answer is No!

Nerf mean serious change to make challenge, No challenge= No serious change

DeanBB.4268:

How would that work in the huge WvW world? Or even PvP? Do you just tag along with a random toon?

Or are you shown the entire map and can zoom into any area you like?

Neither seems like a good idea. People will use it to capitalize on their opponents. Aka, spying.

Idea live stream will restrict map and restrict zoom. Idea stream will only allow to see score and live stream. Yes you are right; wvw is huge world, so the way live stream will work is to take quick live video shot of different area/location in pvp and wvw.

You mention spy? yes, very important. Idea live stream will not show color of servers, not show name of server, or name of player.

Any other restriction idea welcome.

I want to share idea; imagine being in lion arch where you can watch live stream of wvw and pvp match? Player in lion arch can see what is happening in wvw and pvp and decide where to join? why idea is good? Live stream can help motivate more player to join wvw and pvp by joining in. Lion Arch player do not have to join if not want to.

Example; i am in lion arch and i feel bored, i can go to a area in lion arch; movie theater or stream room area and watch live wvw and pvp match to see where help is need and to see where the action is; fun. I will join the action and i will no longer be bored.

Will idea help bring more life to wvw and pvp? Will idea increase more player enjoyment to play wvw and pvp? Also, will add entertainment for all player.

Again, just idea.. what do you player think? critic is ok

Tom Gore.4035:

Comparing to WoW stealth is stupid, because in WoW you cannot restealth in combat save for a long cooldown ability. WoW stealth also breaks when you’re hit or take DoT damage.

If you take time to read my post, i am not comparing wow stealth, i am explain how stealth work in wow. Also if you understand my post instead of rushing to answer; i mention other mmo game having similar stealth like blizzard.

Last; other mmo game company make stealth challenge fun. Fun is good, not bad.

Is it wrong to make stealth challenge=fun?

No! stealth in mmo are not Op because they make stealth challenge except in Guild Wars 2 so far.

You say blizzard name?, here is Blizzard rogue stealth description..tell me where is Stealth “Op”? Also, many other mmo game company stealth class/job/profession follow similar stealth description like Blizzard. Yes, i play wow with other mmo game with stealth.

Rogue;

“1. Stealth is a core rogue ability learned at level five. It prevents other creatures from detecting the stealthed player unless particularly close.
2. Stealth is no longer broken due to falling damage, unless of course it kills the stealthed unit. However, fire damage from camp fires will still reveal it.
3. Stealth is not invisibility. You can be detected by others. Monsters that detect you may stop in their tracks and turn to face you, or attack you directly. Players that detect you will hear a sound, and will be able to target you. The chance of detection increases as you get closer, but also depends on the viewing angle (stand right in front of an enemy and you can guarantee they’ll see you), the relative levels, and any perception or subtlety modifiers.
4. Taking any action such as looting or attacking will remove stealth. There are a few exceptions, such as [Distract], or [Pick Pocket]. Also as of patch 2.1.0, sapping an opponent does not remove the rogue’s stealth.
5. Most damage taken (including from AoEs or DoTs) will remove Stealth. However, fall damage will NOT remove Stealth.
6. Fear AoE’s and certain other AoE’s will remove Stealth.
7. Enemies much higher in level will tend to see through Stealth from quite a distance
8. Enemies you are in front of will see through Stealth as you get closer.
9. You cannot enter stealth while in combat. However, Rogues can use [Vanish] to equivalent effect. Note that if you have a DoT the Stealth will break the next time it damages you.
10. It is possible to eat and enter stealth, to reduce your chance of being seen while eating. This is useful, especially during PvP, where a certain crit can be fatal, or when going afk for a few minutes while restoring health”

a engineer player give me this, so i will share in forum. Watch Careful!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-t-6zFR_GA

Jim Hunter.6821:

DarkSyze.8627:

Again the problem is, be able to attack with high damage with instant burst with low cooldown+ at very far distance; 1500 range is very problem.

So instant burst = a two and a half second channeled attack? Exactly how slow are your reflexes?

Just for fun I’m going to ask if you’ve tried playing ranger yet to see how “OP” it is. I’m sure you took my advice when you were crying about thieves being OP and played 1 in PvP to learn how to counter them right? I mean you couldn’t possible be making the same mistake with ranger and complaining when you have no real knowledge of how the class performs….

And please don’t give your same response of not wanting to play a “no challenge class” or whatever, because until you actually play the class you don’t have the necessary knowledge to make those claims.

I am not saying ranger is OP; i am saying ranger with long bow is problem. I am still waiting for arena net to make serious fix to thief class; i do not forget thief

Ok here is step i take before post in forum;

Step

1. I experience the problem
2. I do research of problem
3. I find result of problem
4. I share result with other player in game
4. If result of problem is new problem, i report it in post fast and give suggestion
5. If result of problem is old problem like thief; in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first and elementalist; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Ele-firing-behind-player-enemy-bug-continue/first#post4805115 , i report it in post and give same suggestion and ask question because i want to know why the problem was not fix? and want to know why arena net was not serious to fix problem? If problem was serious fix; thief would be challenge class.
6. I wait for other player answer to see if they experience same or different
7. If experience different, i research more for more evidence and post more evidence in post.

Jim Hunter; i hope you understand my step

(I experience all class in spvp and do best to do same in wvw. )

Crapgame, that was not nice reply to SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak at all. Do you read the forum? do you read the post? Many player is having same problem; include me. To me why is a problem? If a profession can attack with high damage with low cooldown is a problem. That is what make it broken.

Example; Imagine have the most powerful missle; R-36 (SS-18 Satan) bursting at high speed with low recharge, would you not find that problem?

Again the problem is, be able to attack with high damage with instant burst with low cooldown+ at very far distance; 1500 range is very problem.

Ranger is range class but it do not mean; high damage with instant burst with low cooldown. Range do not mean high damage, Range do not mean low cooldown, Range do not mean, instant burst. Range- “to rove, roam, or wander”, :“to extend, run, or go in a certain direction”, “to lie or extend in the same line or plane, as one thing with another or others” http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/range

Where is range deffinition of high damage with instant burst with low cool-down at long distance? Where?

Suggestion1; Increase cooldown of long bow range-120 second if go more than 1200+ range + and decrease burst 90 second if go more than 1200+ range.

Ranger go far, Ranger pay consequence. If do not want play challenge like other class; you will pay heavy price.

If any class want advantage over challenge class; will pay heavy price and will pay consequence.

No more free advantage to high damage, No more free access to high damage without consequence and heavy price,

You are right Gryph.

Power Creep- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

Spectacle Creep- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKzJWoZWMOI

“Do MMORPG’s Need Power Creep/Gear Treadmills?”

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/122012/24287_Do-MMORPGs-Need-Power-CreepGear-Treadmills

“Most games that have ever existed were designed around a fundamental concept: a fair competition on a level playing field. They existed almost universally for thousands of years as an entertaining, fun, competitive activity. There was nothing equitable to a “gear treadmill” or “power creep”. In fact, the idea that someone in the game would have a significant artificial advantage over other players, or over the materials that served as the playing field, would be contradictory to the fundamental concept of a “game”. Even most video games do not employ power creep or vertical progression.

Yet, the MMORPG genre is comprised almost exclusively of games that employ ongoing power creep and gear treadmills, even though there is nothing inherent in the concept (or even the name) of the genre that implicitly or explicitly refers to vertical power progression. I will agree that the roots of the genre – fantasy role-playing – did employ some limited power progression, but that progression was hardly the defining characteristic of the genre.

The changing, fluid interaction of game-master created environment, including clues, puzzles, and conflict, vs the intelligence, wits, and luck of the adventurers in meeting interesting and challenging environmental goals and problems more defined the Dungeons and Dragons concept than what is now simply a gear-grind for it’s own sake.

For whatever set of reasons, the concept of a gear-grind power creep took hold in the MMORPG genre and essentially took it over, to the point that those who play, and those who develop games for the genre, apparently cannot even imagine an MMORPG being successful without it.

We’re all familiar with the term “content locusts” – players that consume vertical progression in a game and then either complain that there is “nothing to do” or move on to other games. Developers often attempt to keep up with vertical progression content locusts by churning out more vertical progression every few months.

Obviously, thousands of games have been successful without power creep or gear treadmills. People pour millions of hours and billions of dollars into games that have no power creep gear treadmills. So why the myopic and obsessive focus on that particular mechanic in MMORPGs? It’s obviously not necessary for a game to be successful, and you can make a pretty good case that it drives a lot of potential customers away for many reasons:

1. It destroys any sense of “fair competition” between players.

2. It “forces” players to do things in the game they do not want to do (hence the term “grinding”) in order to stay competitive.

3. It forces players to play the game as if it were their primary job in order to stay competitive.

4. It funnels game structure and design concepts down a very narrow path, basically making the game all about the grind, regardless of what else is offered in the game, which is psychologically off-putting for players that don’t want to grind to stay competitive.

5. It biases development time towards trying to keep content locust type players satisfied, which is off-putting for those who are not interested in grinding.

6. It ruins many other potentially profitable and fun systems thout could be in such a game, like WvW or PvP that is competitive from a player skill point of view.

I’m not saying that developing a game that serves the content-locust mentality is a bad thing, nor am I arguing that being a “content locust” is in itself a bad thing. All I’m asking here is: Why is the MMORPG genre so obsessed, from a producer/developer standpoint, with a game mechanic that is a very marginal concept when it comes to the gaming industry as a whole, when there is absolutely no such limitation/focus inherent in the concept of an MMORPG?

It’s like the genre has put itself in a power creep/gear treadmill straightjacket for no good reason and cannot conceive of anyone that wants to play an MMORPG without the strraightjacket on."

ResJudicator.7916:

Not a bug.

Sounds like you got hit with the 15pt Air minor trait (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electric_Discharge), which can fire behind the Elementalist. The discharge then procced a superior sigil of fire, which shows up as a flame blast in your combat log. (The Staff fire3 flame burst skill does negligible power damage).

Is a bug mean doing something that is not suppose to do? It does not say any where in description of firing behind the elementalist? “Strike your target with a bolt of lightning when attuning to air”.

That is why i first did research to find out if the problem with elementalist firing behind was there before and if problem was there before, did arena net fix it.

coglin.1867:

DarkSyze.8627:

azyume.6321:

I don’t know what exactly you are talking about.

However, if you mean the damage by attunement, it isn’t a bug.

Sunspot: Inflict damage at your location when you attune for fire.
Damage: 122
Number of targets: 5
Radius: 180

Electric Discharge: Strike your target with a bolt of lightning while attuning for air.

Earthen Blast: Damage foes and cripple when attuning for earth.
Damage: 73
Cripple: 3 seconds
Number of targets: 5
Radius: 240

Healing Ripple: Heal nearby allies when attuning to water.
Healing: 1302
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240

You are missing the fire burst damage, but what you list is what is happening. Is it possible to test them and see if they are firing behind your back? be honest with result k

Why do you assume someone who already explained to you that it is not a bug, will “retest” something for you? If your making the claims of accusations, why do you not go test it yourself if you feel it is a problem?

azyume was nice to share information with me to see if it was the problem i and many other player was experience. And said that it was not bug. I answer; write where i answer azyume of be wrong of problem not be bug? What accusation? Experience do Not mean same as Accusation.

Example; If i experience bad day at work, am i accusing worker for the bad day? NO
Experience and Accusation is 2 different word, is 2 different meaning.

If you paid attention to what i write instead of answer what you want, 3 year ago, there was a problem with ele firing behind enemy and firing behind ele player.

Player report to arena net. arena net investigate and did research and found problem being a bug. So they fix problem it.

Do you understand now or you want to continue answer my post any way you want without reading?

You are not only player in the game and i ask open question, not to you only. Azyume did research and share investigate with me. So let me ask you this question, why did you reply to my post just to make me feel bad?

Suggestion; if you can not treat player nice with kind word, Do Not Reply! very simple, not hard to learn or maybe?

Will you understand, will you learn if arena net say it to you instead?

you thief class is so special and is having fun, i wish other class can feel same and make thread like this

azyume.6321:

I don’t know what exactly you are talking about.

However, if you mean the damage by attunement, it isn’t a bug.

Sunspot: Inflict damage at your location when you attune for fire.
Damage: 122
Number of targets: 5
Radius: 180

Electric Discharge: Strike your target with a bolt of lightning while attuning for air.

Earthen Blast: Damage foes and cripple when attuning for earth.
Damage: 73
Cripple: 3 seconds
Number of targets: 5
Radius: 240

Healing Ripple: Heal nearby allies when attuning to water.
Healing: 1302
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240

You are missing the fire burst damage, but what you list is what is happening. Is it possible to test them and see if they are firing behind your back? be honest with result k

moony.5780:

y lol…the bad guys…if u like bad guys ok its ur decision..personally i dont like criminals and people who cant behave and prefer hurting people than helping ^^
but u r right..a megaserver for new player will be nice…and they can decide when they r ready for the normal server….so they can learn the game without beeing flammed when they do mistakes

We want make it easy for arena net, not make it hard for them. The in game jail idea require less effort vs create new mega server; which will take too long time. I research; do you know how long it take arena net to put megaserver? 2 years. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

We do not want give rule breakers and policy violate any more time, any more reason, any more excuse to continue more.

Short time=quick action-consequence/punishment. In return will encourage more player to feel safe to play more and will make game grow strong.

Square Enix have this awesome strategy against player who break rule and violate policy; jail. It was a in game jail where the player would be sent for a short period;depend on severe violation until time expire. I never was send there but many player i know went there and were not happy. The in game jail area was very big to fit other violate player together with them.

I think that is another suggestion for arena net; to create a jail area in the game for player who violate rule and violate policy.

If it take 1 day to-forever for player to learn violate rule and violate policy is not ok and to know that arena net is serious about set rule and policy, than let them experience it to maximum.

Astral Projections.7320:

A disco? Yeah it did. This happened to me right before Teq. It was awful.

Humor; funny

moony.5780:

1) to picture 1:
the problem here was it was not possible to rez him without dying also..so attacking the dead enemie was better….but it was ok that that guy said “rez”…what was the problem is that he/she said “TRASH” i dont mind him/her saying the things from before..but why someone call me trash? im not garbage im a human

2) + 3) picture i dont know the situation..its from a guildmate…its just an example how rude peopel can be to show u that this cant go on ! (but what i heared is the one who got flammed killed svanier and the match was won bcs of that) (but that guy got already rank 50+ so he knows what he do)

and making a mistake is no reason to hurt someone..its a reason to tell someone he/she should do better..can be even angry..if the words r fine..but why is there a need for hurting words??

True! also many player/people are this way in the real life world. I am serious! They come to game like this and test policy and rule. Like i said in other post; they will test arena net game policy/rules and see if they can get away with it. If arena net was serious;vigilant, that would not happen. Maybe less because we have to work with arena net to make game safe and better; so far, i do not see arena net working with us player.

Again, It take team work- player and company to work together; player report problem, player report concern and company investigate to fix problem/concern and improve what is working, These abuse and insult player is smart and will see that arena net is not work with us, they will see that us player who care is weak without arena net and will take advantage to do everything they want, and do anything they want.

It is sad but you are not only player experience same treatment; many other same. That is why i spend more time with other game company who make effort and do best effort to teamwork with player.

No sense of waste more time if us care player is working alone in teamwork to make game healthy, challenge and better.

Example; If you are only partner in relationship who care, if you are only partner in relationship who is serious; to make effort to fix relationship, serious to make effort to improve relationship, serious to make effort, serious to make relationship strong while other partner show no care at all; look at you as joke, treat you as joke about how you feel and what you think about…would you waste more time in relationship?

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I really wish these WoW players would stop calling for GW2 to polymorph into WoW. I recommend playing Rift. It’s WoW with better graphics.

Wow is getting new graphics update very soon

Razor.9872:

moony.5780:

Dear dear Arenanet, Gw2 Community,
It would be really nice ..when people play pvp..they dont need to be scared that they will get insulted no matter what they do…i get insulted for winning..i get insulted for losing..thats my daily pvp (and im not a bad player…and pvp nearly everyday)

i got enough from this…!! and i dont want that so many player in gw2 need to suffer bcs of this!!

Im speaking for all when i say:
I dont want come home tired from work and relax..and the first thing someone tell me is: OMG NOOOB, GO DIE, U TRASH

i know its normal that in pvp people get faster emotional and angry…but..this is no reason to insult someone and hurt someone….and its a part of the rules of gw2 (i know noone read it..but..) that insulting someone is forbidden…..actually it should be a general standard that insulting is bad..we r all human and have our pride and rights.

Maybe the generation under me see it as normal to hurt eachother and hurting words became a standard…but this game should not teach them that it is ok..there should be a better way to punish them( forexample a buff which cant let them talk to others for 1h)..and show them how bad it is not to respect eachother and say any bad word they want.

A wrong button click, and bad teambalance, and many others r no reason to hurt someone !!

I attached some pictues about my and my guildies daily pvp chat…

Gotta love it when they start spam-whispering you, but block you too so you can’t whisper back. It’s like — what’s a matter? Can’t handle a rebuttal?

I want to comment; Can’t handle a rebuttal? why would moony waste time to rebuttal would you do same? i would not! what’s a matter? here is matter; player are get away with it because they have freedom to do it because no serious policy action rule.

Example; The law say not to do bad thing but some people will challenge law to see if law is serious. If they find law is not serious, the people will do bad thing and will continue and continue.

That is what is happen here. Do you understand the matter now?

(I do not play elementalist and i experience this with many other player in wvw and spvp and it is serious problem!!! again with elementalist firing behind the enemy/player) Here is explain detail of skill effect that elementalist is firing behind- Air-lightning burst and Fire-flame burst. The bug damage is very high too.

I was doing research and see this 2 patch and was happy arena net take action serious; 25 September 2012 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/September_2012

“Fixed bugs with Flamestrike and Ice Shards so they can’t be fired behind the player”.

October 7th 2012 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Update-Notes-October-7th-2012/first#post370244

“Elementalist
Signets of Earth, Fire, and Water: These signets have been updated to not fire at targets behind the player”.

So that was 3 years ago of serious action against elementalist firing behind the player/enemy

So, Now, how is elementalist still firing behind the player/enemy? If it is bug, where is bug hiding? I research in bug forum and can not find complaint/problem? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs?page=5
Maybe bug is hiding in Air Attunement- http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Air_attunement and maybe in Fire Attunement-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Attunement ?
Is it new bug? If it is not bug; i can not find any arena net elementalist buff patch for bug? maybe arena net give elementalist in secret?

Thread like this for example; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-you-found-confusing-as-a-noob/page/2#post4797918 violate policy and rule.

This is 2-3 day thread; How serious is arena net for setting policy and rule for violation- insult and abuse if they can not discipline;punish player who post thread like that? Even player who post in that thread do same thing as writer of thread and are enjoying their insult and abuse against new player include me and other player who are still in training and learning.

Is this another mission and vision fo Guild Wars 2; abuse and insult new player and player who is still learning is ok?

This thread is not even in pvp or in wvw chat. this is in forum!! It is common sense why player get away with insult and abuse. It is common sense why many player leave for other mmo game company who set zero policy tolerant against abuse and insult.

The player do not even care if the game they leave for is not perfect, all they care is for a game company who is serious

Serious do not mean perfect, Serious mean make effort into action!!

Altair it is not bad idea; Square Enix and other mmo game have that feature. Difference with those other game gears with Guild Wars 2 gears is that, the other mmo game gear have effect on game play and effect on many situation… where Guild Wars 2 gear only have effect on 1 situation and on 1 game play— Zerk… including bunker class.

It is sad and true because Guild Wars 2 gear is all about zerk-fast kill, instant kill, instant burst, high dps, do everything fast. I do many research-there is really only 2 class in Guild Wars 2 that is fill in bunker/support role.

So if there were gear inspection in Guild Wars 2; would it really matter? No!
So if there were gear inspection in Guild Wars 2; would it really effect game and situation? No! except for 2 bunker/support class.
So if there were gear inspection in Guild Wars 2; would it make game challenge? No! and No!

Suggestion; only make gear inspection access to level 80 player

style.6173:

So before the last balance patch, most people complained about eles and engis and that they were too OP.

After the best ideas of the balance team were implemented, what do I still see dominating?

Eles, nade spamming engis, turret engis.

Bravo.

Word and Action is different; that is why.

Remember; Action is serious, Word is joke.

Suggestion; do not take word serious until Action.

I want add the rest not challenge class to thread- thief, ele, ranger; that’s all.

If arena net continued, copied Guild Wars, here would result be times X 2 for Guild Wars 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars

http://www.thetoptens.com/mmorpg-games/guild-wars-1622.asp

“Guild wars is a free mmorpg and it is fun, competitive and has brilliant graphics.
Buy this game!”

“Best game ever! Can’t belive how fun I practily died for real ha”

“Guildwars is the only MMO out there not trying to constanlty dip their fingers in to your walltet/bank account. They uphold the values of true gamers, you buy and you play, not you buy and you pay more and more to play”.

“Best pvp ever, Guild vs Guild and Hero Ascent was so awesome it kept people playing this game for years, even now GvG is still played.”

I research; Guild Wars was not perfect game but worked with player to make game challenge-fun and worked with player to make game better. Why not keep same principle?, why not keep same vision? why not keep same goal? why not keep same focus? why not keep same mission? why not improve all of it?

(Example; if a car company want to copy other car company car, would it make sense to improve the copy? so why chose the path of not copying the other company car and make itself worse than the copy?)

Guild Wars 2 did not copy other game; it is own creation. So why no other game even new game copy Guild Wars 2? There is reason why no other mmo game copying Guild Wars 2?

Wyrden.4713:

wich proffession r u playing

and there is a reason why thieves r one of best, if not best wvw roamers.

every proffession has strong and weak points.

How many weak point thief profession have vs other profession?
How many strong point thief profession have vs other profession?

Hint; Thief profession is not only best roamer vs other profession,,,,,,

That is not true; i play wow and rogue are viable and not at bottom. Do research before point finger at another mmo game company profession. Last, Blizzard made rogue a challenge class; not like this non challenge “rogue thief” here. Even Square Enix Ninja profession is viable and challenge=fun. If Blizzard and Square Enix was in charge of Guild Wars 2, thief would be challenge class- with no 1-2 skill only class and Stealth always class and instant kill always class. In return; more player would return to game and more player would use more time to play Guild Wars 2 more.

Thief will never be at bottom tier because arena net believe thief is viable and challenge class. By time arena net realize thief is not viable and challenge class, it will be to late; player will leave and spend more time with other mmo game that is challenge and fun.

Example; some people people still believe earth is flat. What can you do? 2 things-

1. Believe them and waste all your time and blame everybody for your mistake after you find truth.
2. Leave them or use more time to find truth and when find truth; use rest time to explore beauty of life and it challenge.

Kraljevo.2801:

The term isn’t offensive at all, no matter what context. It’s not 2005 anymore.

/shrug

It is not about being 2005 anymore; it is about how other treat us new player with that word. They blame us new player for mistake and treat us bad with that word. I am little new and i do not call new player that word because they are value and important like me.

That word is for player who are pride and arrogant. Humble player accept you and help you be strong; give suggestion, encourage you and help you be better. Humble player protect new player from other player who want put them down and make them feel shame for be new.

Last; Humbleness make you a better player; not arrogant and pride. Humbleness do not call name or treat new player different because of being new or not learn fast or not be best player but stand by you, give suggestion, train you and encourage you be better player.

That’s all

Cormac.3871:

DarkSyze.8627:

zombyturtle, you do not make yourself different by calling new player Noob. I am a little new but i will not answer your thread until you remove that word. Suggestion; no new player like to be call noob; think next before using that word.

Example; you do not ask people who do not have little question and for oppinion by calling them poor

The term isn’t offensive as in this context is implicit the understanding that we were all noobs once.

zombyturtle, you do not make yourself different by calling new player Noob. I am a little new but i will not answer your thread until you remove that word. Suggestion; no new player like to be call noob; think next before using that word. Noob is a bad word for us new player because it push us away and make us feel worthless and make us feel shame for being new.
You do not know how many time i log out when i first start because of some other player calling me noob. They call me less now but sometime i am scared to play because if i make mistake or learn slow; they are ready to call me that word. Again, be careful for using that word especially if you want out attention.
Example; you do not ask people who do have little sufficient or with no sufficient to live; question and opinion by calling them poor and worthless people.
In return; they will look at you like other who look at them down and treat them bad.