Guild Wars 2

Firelysm.4967:

DarkSyze.8627:

I never know how unchallenge range long range is with experience in wvw. I find 1500 too much no risk for ragner class range. Standard long range is 1200, what i do not understand is do ranger class need that +300 range to be effective as a long range class?

In wvw, all i was doing is spam longbow skill #1 and i feel this is too much not having risk for a range class. I am chock that i kill 8 player in 5 minute just for being in 1500 range: i find that problematic not accept for challenge play and require no risk play. No class should have easy advantage + with 0-little cooldown.

In Pve and Pvp: i see same effect and it should not be that way at all.

Last: there is no excuse, there is no reason for that class to have +300 advatage over standard 1200 range especially can spam with very low cool down.

Suggestion again: make ranger class range be 1300 range for challeng play and risk play.

Ranger class need have risk not have over advantage: i remember too, they have pet that can go long range: it make no sense giving ranger 2x long range- rangerpet+high mobility for ranger= too much no risk, too much no challenge

Conclude: Easy acess and easy advantage need to have risk and concequence.

Consider change to ranger range arena net

I don’t know if you are troll or sarcastic or just a guardian that rungs a zerg build and complains to be snipped. Range is all ranger has if you get close you destroy the power ranger, there is no reason to remove 300 range, and LONGBOW has a meaning with longest shot possible.

YOUR arguments have no value because they have no:
- constructed answer why this range is bad
- how to fix it to benefit other things if you nerf the range
- how will you fix close range
- how will you fix mobility
- utility?
- pet ai?

Renting is not solving anything, bring solution and suggest bonuses how to trade 300 range for something useful on utility or mobility.

Range GS is boring and only unskilled players run it with LB. Give me reasonable exchange for 300 range and i give you my range. But then needs warrior nerfs to mobility and thief nerf on shortbow.
Because getting close to ranger is not a problem.

I play other class but my main is Guardian because it is fun class and challenge class. I play ranger class when i am bored and want easy kill. I post about ranger range only! If you read my post, i describe why ranger range is bad. There should not be any trade off at all. You know that not everything you take need a trade off? Arena net adjusted Teleport in last patch, there was no trade-of. So not everything need trade off That is why i suggestion ranger range be 1300, so that mean no trade-off. 1500 range vs 1200 range is too much advantage for ranger, and also read this forum with link that give description of ranger spec. Ranger is not a weak class, they are very Powerful and should not be under-estimated. I see ranger player kill thief player all the time in wvw and pvp. I even have all ranger party in my server that find enemy thief player and kill them.

Here is thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Article-Discussing-Ranger-And-The-Meta/first#post4895936

So you see, 1300 range will not change anything in ranger but just range

(Again, the reason is to encourage ranger to be a challenge class. Not all class have gap closer like thief and warrior and elementalist, so that mean: they deserve to be treated the same challenge like them ).

Aomine.5012:

DarkSyze.8627:

I will begin: range. I spoke with many ranger in my server and they feel ranger range should be slightly decreased in between 1200-1400 range. I mention of 1300 range which i suggested; they say it is ok as long their damage and mobility are not tampered with. So it is 1300 range than which will help range class be a challenge class and fun class to other class.

This guy is lying. He posted this in ranger forum and got completely rebutted. He did not give any constructive counter argument and just ignore all posts that other rangers proposed why the nerf is not necessary

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-range-1500-need-risk-Sugg-1300-range/page/3#post4897492

I am lying, do you have Attention now? Do you feel better now. Since I am Lying, show evidence where i Lied? I am Serious! Do you know what Opinion is? So to you, give Opinion mean to agree with all counter argument and agree with all ranger propose?

I feel sorry for you if you define opinion like that. Here is definition of opinion and suggestion

Opinion- “a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty”.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/opinion

Suggestion- “the idea thus called up”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Opinion

So you see, there is no definition where Opinion and Suggestion mean I should to be Force to agree with argument or should be Force to agree to Proposition or even should Have to Agree with argument or should Have to agree to Proposition.

Last, here is definition of idea- “An Opinion, Conviction or Principle”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idea

I give a Idea, Opinion and Suggestion of ranger range to be 1300 range. I do not understand why you feel give Opinion, idea and Suggestion is a threat to you? Do you know, everyone have diferent mind? Do you know everyone mind is not same? Do you know some mind can agree with other mind? Do you know some mind can not agree with other mind?

I hope you learn from all this so next time if you encounter someone give idea, opinion and suggestion, that you think the person should agree with you or should be force to agree with you. Because it is very bad to believe in that, I am Serious! You can not Control someone mind because you do not like it! You can not Force someone mind to be like yours because you do not like it. Everyone mind is not like yours, you need to learn that.

“A man has to learn that he cannot command things, but that he can command himself; that he cannot coerce the wills of others, but that he can mold and master his own will: and things serve him who serves Truth; people seek guidance of him who is master of himself”

I will begin: range. I spoke with many ranger in my server and they feel ranger range should be slightly decreased in between 1200-1400 range. I mention of 1300 range which i suggested; they say it is ok as long their damage and mobility are not tampered with. So it is 1300 range than which will help range class be a challenge class and fun class to other class.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I promise you nobody likes power ranger. So no skill dude standing on a ledge spamming you down is completely ridiculous.

My idea is to nerf it in a way which allows for counter play. The damage of all longbow skills should be reduced by around 10% so there is counter play to getting to the ranger and maybe killing him if you play well enough.

Thoughts?

No counter=No challenge= No fun. I think damage adjustment is not good idea, that is why i suggest ranger range to be 1300.

So i am very excited after reading and watching video presentation of 3 of 5 new mmo expansion of other mmo i am playing. All i can say is: Fun, Fun, Fun. That is all player want and it sad Guild Wars 2 hate it. The excuse for player want fun and challenge is: "LPT and “Stop Complaining”. Oh well!, Guild Wars 2 is not the only mmo game in the market. Again, the only game mode in Guild Wars 2 i find fun and challenge is Pve: I credit Arena net for put a lot of effort to make that happen. If Guild Wars 2 was a Pve only game mode, it would be very good.

I am tired and frustrate when i hear player like me be told if want challenge and fun in pvp and wvw, that it is Lpt and to complaining. For past 3 years what did "it is not Lpt and Do not Complain do for Guild Wars 2? Cele engineer, Cele ele, thief, ranger, instant death, excessive mobility, excessive damage, excessive everything= Absolute Nothing.

I notice Arena net making small change=fun in last patch which is ok. What will make it Good-Great is for Arena net to fix big problems like Cele Engineer> and Cele Elementalist> is Not Guardian, Thief design need change, Ranger Range need adjustment, Warrior Mobility and defense need adjustment, Necromancer mobility need adjust, need access to all condition, Guradian damage need adjustment> Gurdian is Not Warrior!..

Guild Wars 2 all game mode should be fun; not only 1. I hope before Hotw release or in release: Arena net make it happen

Last Encouragement…

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”

“Making a big change is scary. But do you know what’s even scarier? Regret”

“All of us make mistakes. The key is to acknowledge them, learn, and move on. The real sin is ignoring mistakes, or worse, seeking to hide them.

“Remember these two things: play hard and have fun”

BlackTruth.6813:

Ranger is an L2P issue for sure but it does not change the fact that Ranger takes absolutely no skill. This has been the problem with that class since launch.

I did not know that: since launch? wow!

Supreme.3164:

In a game like GW2 aimed to casual players, to open this forum and find these kind of of thread…it’s demoralizing, insulting and rather frustrating.

The OP..he’s a thief, he only mentions fire/air sigil..but there is more :

-a profession that can maintain stealth for as long as wished in order to avoid any combat unless so desired : Broken

-a profession that can teleport without requiring any Line of sight : Broken

-a profession that use the dodge mechanic up to 13-14 times in a row: Broken

-a profession that can abuse a mechanic that lack visible and easy to access counterplay: Broken

-a profession not affected by the strongest control condition (CHILL): Broken

I can potentially list some other stuff…but yeah we all get the point, before talking about balance on other profession, you OP..must give suggestions on how to “fix” your own profession.

Don’t come here saying that only fire/air sigil combo is what broken on thief, don’t you dare! In the end of the days, Profession X will use its “OP” kitten nal to counter the “OP” kitten nal of the thief

Until Arena net make pvp and wvw challenge, fun and risk than reward, i will use 90% of my time for pve and 10% in pvp and wvw. Guild Wars 2 is not new game in market: it should Never be like this at all: only in beta this happen.

Auto-login fix now

It use to be Wvw but after i finally realize no risk, no challenge and no fun is ok, it is Pve now

Andred.1087:

I’m appalled at how insensitive you people are. OP said they had a minor panic attack over this, and you’re all brushing it off like it’s nothing. Shame on all of you! This is not how you talk to people with disabilities! I hope each and every one of you have to one day live while crippled by something outside of your control. Maybe then you’ll understand why this is unacceptable.

It is not right at all

Crapgame.6519:

Puck.9612:

DarkSyze.8627:

When trait: Rapid Fire is 8 second: huge difference of “Enormous Spike Damage” than 10 seconds. Example: if it take 10 seconds to kill a thief, ranger can easily kill thief under 8 seconds with trait adjustment.

I do not know why did not include that in his articlet: it make me feel he is not honest.

It is the same person who wrote this article:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Because he isn’t talking about the terrible players you find in hot join?

Good players know how to counter the rapid fire and close the gap on the ranger. If they are running a condi build they can wreck the ranger if he is running the 6,6,0,2 build. It’s better to run something like the SotF build that gives you the tools you need to fight back.

Maybe you should go tell that to DarkSyze.8627. If you haven’t go read:

Ranger range 1500 need risk, Sugg: 1300 range

;) He will disagree with you /boggle

:)

When trait: Rapid Fire is 8 second: huge difference of “Enormous Spike Damage” than 10 seconds. Example: if it take 10 seconds to kill a thief, ranger can easily kill thief under 8 seconds with trait adjustment.

I do not know why did not include that in his articlet: it make me feel he is not honest.

It is the same person who wrote this article:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

So each teleport they remove a new one appear. I watch the video with other player video of more new port location after today patch. There is couple video saying there is more than 12-17 new port location accessible…. Wouldn’t it be ideal for Arena net to just disable teleport in pvp?

Vavume.8065:

You yourself called them exploits and yet you complain that they were removed, ofc they remove exploits and so they should, I can think of plenty more that should be removed too but that’s another story.

Archaos.4192:

Lately afkers have been a real plague, especially in the silverwastes and the excuse they give is that afking in the silverwastes is rewarding.

Cant Anet do something about this?

That is what happen when you design a reward first than risk and effort after mechanic . I do not afk but the Afk’s are correct. I can list class 4 class who is design same way.

Example: it is like go to a job and see other get pay for no require effort. Why would you complain against them if the Manager see it not a problem to fix it?

Suggestion:

1. Do not show kick timer in chat and in window. Give only one 5 minute afk every hour: if afk after 5 minute….auto-log out and will have to wait for 1 hour to rejoin. Like the queue system.. wait for 55 minute until 1 hour is available. That mean, Arena net to create a separate queue system for afk

So here clearly- Every 1 hour= 5 minute afk
2 hour=5 minute afk
3 hour= same

5 minute will not stack for each hour.

I think that will help with afk a lot

Exciton.8942:

The map certainly looks fun.
But I am a little afraid that all those environmental factors may exaggerate the population imbalance problem.
Most of those powerful buffs will be claimed by the side with more people and make it even harder for the side with less number.

You are correct: i agree with you 100%.

Example: It is like create a big game park where everyone can pay to go but only give front row seat to the one with more money but still you show commercial of the game park available to everyone

Arena net still have not resolve problem with low tier server: this new map will only continue the same routine.

“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them”.

yLoon.5289:

I don’t get why this thread has gone so long. The OP doesnt even know how to differentiate between uplevel player and lvl 80 players in WvW.

The exaggeration posts are too “nmad” high here and need urgent clarify before it brainwash the new players.

a) There is NO 2000/1900/1700 range attack for any class.
b) 4.5k dmg on auto?? That only possible IF to pair up with Signet of Hunt+Wild + Opening Strike. + Invul

Are you even realized if you are hitting a level 1 uplevel player?
Are you mistaken your opening strike for auto attack, that it was refresh instantly when your zerg killed that person instantly?
This is just a too kitten exaggerated statement, meaning you only need 5 arrows to kill a player? Do you seriously think arena allowed that? Just because ranger is slightly good in zerging, you wanna suggest this, but do you know how ranger was treated in other game mode?

You want risk? Well, thats why ranger got “yttihs” melee weapon. Any experience thief see ranger as fresh meat.Just wait for you to be naked without stone signet, rampage, dodge, protect me, etc. There is so many ways to counter the range, go figure out yourself.

I dont think arena is willing to revert back the ninja nerf on arrow’s velocity. Everyone was all complaining when it was firstly introduced. Hence, atm, new range suggestion is a No from me.

“The OP doesnt even know how to differentiate between uplevel player and lvl 80 players in WvW”.

This is not about know how to differentiate between uplevel player and lvl 80 players in WvW, this is about ranger not have risk in long range and be reward for it. Also, do differentiate between uplevel player make a class? No! Do differentiate between uplevel player make you a better player? No! Do differentiate between uplevel player matter? No!

See evidence of low level player vs up level player in wvw: Year 2013

Here is a new evidence where a player play all 8 class with level 10-22 vs level 80 player in wvw: Year 2015

You see now? It really do not matter how to differentiate any level in wvw: it is how you play matter

I will take advice and learn.

Mogar.9216:

at 1200 range he can gs auto attack proc air and fire, mind stab , blink , mirror blade , dodge and shatter. If everything hits and crit yep you’d be dead however if you dodged, blocked ,moved, blinded, pop lich form . Pretty much any one of those would have saved you .

I believe that is what happened: when i saw the mesmer; i panic because i did not expect that to happen at all. Before when i encounter mesmer, they would run from me but this mesmer run straight for me very fast, that is how i panic.

Sumusikoo.1360:

I mean, I keep hearing people saying how ranger is trash for WvW but I find ranger quite good actually.

Sure we don’t have a kitten ton of buffs but why would we need when every single warrior, guardian, etc out there already follow the meta builds to spam buffs on the zerg.

If your zerg is a full buff zerg, if you don’t have the raw damage to follow it up you won’t get very far either.

I feel like the ranger is quite good in both, dueling and WvW, we hit harder than most classes at 1500 range while having 2 different aoe condition cleansing for the zerg and AoE damage, we don’t particularly excel at support nor at AoE but we do excel at damage and last time I checked, damage is never too much.

With this said, I find myself dropping a kitten ton of enemies in zergs just by rapid firing them without any chance of retaliation, the best thing is that it only has a few seconds cooldown, if downing enemies or taking 50%+ hp with a single skill thus making enemies retreat or make them useless for the rest of the zerg fight, while cleansing conditions from you and your allies and if needed rooting enemies, if it isn’t considered at the very least “decent” then sorry but I’m probably playing the wrong game.

you are correct. The thing i do not understand with this game is how high damage and access to powerful skill do not require hard effort and high cool down-high risk. I am just amaze how balance work for this game. I am amaze also by all of this being call a fun game.

That was one reason why i join Guild Wars 2 because of the word Fun!. The only Fun game mode is PVE: that’s all!, If Arena net get rid of WvW game mode, it would be good choice. So other player can go where Fun is instead of pretend and believe that wvw is Fun.

In Pve: Fun and challenge never end because there is Risk In WvW: Fun end in 1-3 second because Risk is not require, only reward, reward, reward with no effort> unless with zerg+party.

Fun and Challenge require Risk and Reward! so until Arena net make WvW with Risk and Reward, you will find me in Pve.

Until Arena net make the No Risk Requirement Class Fun, I will be having Fun in Pve

aspirine.6852:

DarkSyze.8627:

aspirine.6852:

I play ranger myself, but with this ridiculous range it’s just no fun. It is way too much imo.

Other player are report that ranger can exceed range even to 2000+ range with evidence, it make 1500 range a joke.

2k, man that cant be good for anyone. We dont want to get overnerfed like they did thieves.

Thieves overnerf, where is evidence of change? Instant kill, extreme mobility, stealth on wall+object, reset fight anytime, stealth anytime want….no risk but reward all the time? Ranger will not be “overnerf” like thieves but need their range be adjusted.

Demonstrate:

Update: 3 of my wvw server commander said i was fighting with a very high experience mesmer player who use Double Shatter build.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Seems unlikely to instant kill you with just mind wrack in that toughness, but he can seriously injure you if not careful. Look for a flying blade because that’s usually followed by shatter.

Thank You! i will next time

Dondagora.9645:

Yeah, but maybe if he stacked a few dazes on you, or perhaps interrupted your skills? That might’ve added damage to you, but it also definitely added vulnerability to you, setting up a Mesmer’s bigger bursts. Might be best to put your Death Shroud on the moment you notice the dazing, which will soften you up a lot, to take the brunt of the spike.

Others will likely have more in depth ideas on strategy, though.

Good advice, ty

StickerHappy.8052:

DarkSyze.8627:

StickerHappy.8052:

Which part of the shatter do you die most often?

• When In GS?
• Staff?
• Stealth?
• Sword?

Great Sword because the mesmer was about 1200 range, with no stealth

What class do you play?

I am sorry to not give more information: i was play necromancer with 1747 toughness, Armor 2, 667, Vitality-968, health 18. 892 health with condition necromancer build

That memser was equip with a ascended gs, maybe wearing ascended gear?

StickerHappy.8052:

Which part of the shatter do you die most often?

• When In GS?
• Staff?
• Stealth?
• Sword?

Great Sword because the mesmer was about 1200 range, with no stealth

I am only asking mesmer class player only: I find that shatter is instant kill me in wvw. I experience shatter mesmer worse instant kill than thief because i was kill in less than 1-2 second. I know shatter is your strongest build but i did not know how very fast Instant Kill it is until today. I thought it was a thief but it was 1 mesmer only. I need suggestion and tip how to play against shatter mesmer? Thank You!

aspirine.6852:

I play ranger myself, but with this ridiculous range it’s just no fun. It is way too much imo.

Other player are report that ranger can exceed range even to 2000+ range with evidence, it make 1500 range a joke.

Drennon.7190:

Why do people still think thief is OP? Have they not played one? Is there a misconception of our toolkit? I honestly don’t understand it. What’s more bizarre to me is when it is one of the cele meta classes complaining.

Because This Apply To Only Us Class, NotThief Class…That Is Why!!

I made a thread about this already. I was in wvw and chasing ele with party and there was a ele attack us with fire behind her and that is not right at all. It make no sense because there is No skill and No trait in ele that describe attacking attack behind enemy player. Can you Please hot fix it Arena net

Thread about Ele firing behind enemy target
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Ele-firing-behind-player-enemy-bug-continue/first#post4805115

Here is ele class link: there is no description for Ele attack behind enemy target
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Last: i research and investigate and find a Ele bug thread- The Ele Bug list last for 2 year, Arena net is it possible for you to make a Arena net Ele bug thread list and red post it with the other red thread, so ele player can see it and update it ? Thank You

Here is Ele bug list?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/NEW-Elementalist-bugs-and-glitches-thread/first

“When people spend time to game, they want to do something fun…..”, you are correct

Fenda.1398:

Those classes which have mobility have it for a reason. So you want to strip thieves and ele´s mobility but don´t compensate them? I can understand you´d want to cut some of the warrior’s mobility since it has too much for it’s tankiness, immunities and general damage output, but ele at least has to actively maintain their damage from stacking might while being tanky, and thieves are usually swuishy. They have to be mobile. Classes like Mesmer, Guardian and Necromancer are not as mobile outfight and to some extend infight because they´re designed to be strong where they are, not where they want to go. Imagine a fully shrouded necromancer moving around as fast as a thief – and on the opposite side, when a thief can´t get away from a necro, something clearly goes wrong mechanic-wise. These are just examples though and there are outliers for sure – Warrior and Engineer being too mobile while being too dangerous and tanky alltogether, counting in Eles here to some extend because they can achieve the same by active play, but generally the balancing regarding mobility is one of the most balanced aspects about the game in my opinion.

That said, we have to wait and see how that works out and how exactly the change will affect general teleportation (shadowstepping). Seeing as a single pebble on the road can ruin your shadowstep because the AI is too narrowly programmed to shadowstep around it (same goes for Guardians YouShallNotPass- line on staff and Necro’s fear wall – if you shadowstep to your foe when they are several units behind it, you´ll still get caught), i´m rather worried. I´m by no means a programmer, but they should have made all shadowstep abilities a real teleport and remap the pathing grid by defining from which place you are allowed to go to which place to prevent teleporting to inaccessible places. Sounds like a lot of work to do and might even be highly inefficient resource-wise, but for the player this would be the better way. Best example is this: Would be nice to have the Shadow Trap actually work like it should seeing that i already have to reach the location to place it – why that thing is not just a plain teleport exceeds my imagination.

I understand but the problem is, they have too much access to it without risk and consequence. Mobility is very strong so why make mobility easy to use over and over again? It do not make sense! Very Powerful and Extreme should carry high risk and be challenge, Not carry No risk and be Reward without no challenge?

That is why Arena is changing that to make reward be risk and be consequence. Reward= Risk and Consequence

N o Reward= No Risk, No Consequence

Example: Test

Student A study hard with great effort for test; very exhausted with no sleep, a lot practice.
Student B Not study hard without any great effort for test: stay up late drink heavy alcohol and party and play game with friends and strangers before take test,
Test begin—- Who is suppose to pass test? And why? Who deserve not to pass test? And why?

I hope you understand!

aspirine.6852:

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

The classes you mentioned are suppose to have that mobility. I always make fun of nike warriors in wvw but it would kinda suck is they didnt have that. I’m affraid that mesmer will get hurt more with these new changes.

I want evidence where these class are suppose to do that. Just because they use d/d build and wear light-medium armor do not make them suppose to have extreme mobility. What armor do necromancer wear? What armor do warrior wear? Necromancer wear light armor and Warrior wear heavy armor, so who suppose to have extreme mobility? I understand Arena net didn’t design this game to have trinity but still; a warrior will always be a warrior no matter what, so it mean, they will always be a slow-medium mobility class to make it balance and challenge. Arena net tamper it so that is why warrior class is in bad spot. There is reason why thing should be left alone.

cafard.8953:

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

On the ranger forum, you keep complaining that rangers and engies 1500 range is impossible to gap, and here you complain that it’s too easy to close gaps for three non-ranger non-engie professions?

please quote my exact word “that it’s too easy to close gaps for three non-ranger non-engie professions?” because i want to see evidence where i say that? I did not mention ranger mobility with the other class; you should be happy

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

T raw.4658:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. I stand corrected on health. You guys create a lot of vile in people for a reason. You guys make fun of it here but the mass complaints about thieves show a problem.

People arent in here complaining constantly because youre not constantly putting them in no win situations because you have a class mechanic of too much insta damage that is extremely hard to counter if not impossible in too many situations.

CnD off walls?

Bottom line in a game where visual understanding of your target, reacting to animations, reacting to environment and there is some class that negates every single bit of that leaving you with no way to react or counter it because you dont know its there well thats called entirely too unfair. And itsd class mechanic that is doing it. I really dont mind your damage, if I could react to it coming.

Im sure many have said the line “Well I was about to gg that guy except that thief showed up.”

Stealth is extremely powerful in a game that doesnt rely on radar for enemy detection.

I mean we even get a red circle on the ground to let us know where a cannon is about to hit and it generally does less damage than you can. The most damage in the game (Necro Wells) require some significant coordination with many people setting it up to get the full potential of it due to all the animation on the ground. In small groups a power necro is a setting duck.

Ohh and that Mighty blow is a 4 sec cd, but its animated, good players dodge more often than not unless I immob them and that has a looooong cd and is easily dodged by the right person.

If everyone had a thief detector, I dont think anyone would be complaining. We rely on visual understanding of the environment to play this game in every single aspect but when thieves come into play.,

A warrior adds, well Ive rotated that fight around enough to see them coming, I know its going to happen, I need to save a stun breaker. A ranger add from a distance, well he might get a couple of rapid fire shots off on me.

Thief, thsat fight needs to be a 1v1 fight and I have to be fully concentrated on you and not worried about anything else to beat you. I have to use aegis, the tell tale blind, my own one AOE blind, and every AOE I have.

People can learn to fight a mes, engi, and whatever else by fighting them more and more to understand their animations and their tell tale signs. Even a mes, mighty blow and ring of warding screws up a shatter in a heart beat. Killing clones with AOE seems to be the way to fight those guys. I dont know yet I havent gotten a chance. Regardless its animated. Even them as an Add, I can reset that fight sand get out before they add anything significant to it.

I dont mind getting gg’s by players that out played me. Thats just something to learn from, but when I get gg’d and there is no counter in the game to it. Thats a problem.

The reason I call for more squishy thieves is you need to pay a price. A thief revealed open field shouldnt be so quick and easy to jump back into stealth. In a game where we rely on sight stealth is a huge defense.

We need something, we hit you in stealth numbers pop and you are revealed. I hit you with a sword while in stealth I should feel that therefore I should have a way of knowing that happened.

Long Cooldown on stealth after BackStab so when you do this you risk the chance of exposure. Your risk is too low. It needs to be higher to make you think twice before just running up out of no where.

And 5k is a significant amount of damage, half of your insta damage and severely animated. So what does that tell you about 10K backstabs if 5k is significant? Ohh and you disappeared right after doing so.

Thieves should be having to find the perfect situation to jump in as their risk level should be extremely high. You add to a fight out of no where with that much damage, you need to be risking a 10k hit yourself.

Why shouldnt you risk an insta 10K hit? Everyone else does because of you.

Very inexperienced player complaining about thieves. Every build thief has has been nerfed significantly. Only PD condi remains OP.

It’s time for you to roll thief and post your daily logs of your endeavors….i want videos with commentary

humor I want to comment if ok? ok here is another way to look at it. Us other class know and experience what have high risk is, to thief players they think they have high risk also. So my question to thief player; what evidence do you have for high risk? i need more than just 1 evidence because us other player have many evidence of high risk for our class. You go first

Crapgame.6519:

I’m going to just go out on a limb and say you ignored everything everyone wrote or suggested or provided factual information on why our Range and Rapid Fire is not over powered. Furthermore, that the damage has not been increased with the change to Rapid Fire months back.

Seriously, what is the real beef with the Ranger and their range? i have no real beef with ranger class.

Is it that you personally feel over powered by using it? If so, then switch out Long to Short and the problem is solved. Not bad suggestion at all but wvw require long range most.

Is it that you personally feel it is easy to kill enemy players on your server? Transfer then. No No, i personally feel it is too easy for ranger to have +300 advantage point with only using 1 skill that is all.

Is it that you personally feel it is OP in large group fighting or on the Edge of the Mist maps? Don’t join the zergs or know Edge of Mist is nothing more than the farm and exp train. I feel it is OP when only ranger using long range.

Is it that you personally feel it is OP in sPvP? Then only join ranked games. Play, and come back next week and pass me your name and ranking. I’m pretty sure you will come back and say how wrong you are. I am still learning spvp: i am not expert experience but using only long range to kill enemy player, require no expert experience.

Shorter side of my answer. Ranger has to range. Target has to react. Arena net has provided everyone with skills to avoid getting insta-gibbed.

I agree with you, but remember: only if you are extreme mobility class- thief and war, there will not be enough time to react. I understand ranger is a range class but i think +300 range is just too much that is all.

Cynz.9437:

DarkSyze.8627:

After i read thread post; Example: it is like asking a zoo if they can let lions out of their cage?. There is good reason why the zoo keep lions lock inside cage. Same with Arena net; there is good reason why thief was nerf and a little limited because they can still instant kill. Nerf to thief is like tranquilizer to lions. Even though sometime it is not 100% but it keep them from getting worse. If the lions resist tranquilizer, the zoo increase it more, like same for thief by arena net. That is all

yeah meanwhile we have tanks on the streets murdering people aka celestial classes

i agree with you, so that is why i am pushing hard for arena net to take celestial class problem serious. I am not say thief is not threat but have more threat is not good. It do not make sense for arena net to increase problem instead of work with 1 problem: thief.

I do not understand why arena net think increasing problem is ok because it is not ok. Because it give more player more reason to leave: quit game and spend more time with other mmo game company who want less problem than add more problem.

Arena net need to be serious about problem in this game: for them to increase problem is bad idea: there is nothing fun about it and it will decrease their reputation more and decrease Guild Wars 2 reputation more.

Focus on 1 problem arena net – thief class instead add 2+ more problem-celestial engineer, elementalist,

“why add more problems when you can deal with just 1” ?, “Less problem, less headache”, “Fewer problems, Fewer Worries”, “Less you worry about your problems, the easier they will be to solve”.

After i read thread post; Example: it is like asking a zoo if they can let lions out of their cage?. There is good reason why the zoo keep lions lock inside cage. Same with Arena net; there is good reason why thief was nerf and a little limited because they can still instant kill. Nerf to thief is like tranquilizer to lions. Even though sometime it is not 100% but it keep them from getting worse. If the lions resist tranquilizer, the zoo increase it more, like same for thief by arena net. That is all

thefantasticg.3984:

DarkSyze.8627:

It is not i am having problem with them because i like challenge. What i find problem is how they have more advantage without any effort and consequence. It is common sense for any game designer to not design a profession by give high it high advantage without have penalty, concequence and risk. Like one of the designer say, “it is complete suicide without having any risk”

Hate to break it to you kiddo, but game balancing DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU.

The games designers have to take into account WAY MORE than what you think, in your extremely limited experience, is “challenging”. Like I said, stop posting, go play the more because with every silly post you illustrate more and more you that you lack sorely in knowledge of what challenge actually is in this game.

I do not know where you get idea “game balance revolve around me”? I am player like you: i am not special So it is us player to report what is not fun and not challenge in the game so Arena net fix it and improve.

If you want me to pretend there is fun and challenge in game balancing than it will not happen. As a player/consumer: I want Arena net to make game balancing fun and challenge with effort and risk, is it wrong for me to see this way?

Do you know fun and challenge prolong company life? Do you know fun and challenge expand company growth? So just because i want fun and challenge, that all of sudden, i am “make game balance revolve around me”

See this… this is all want: you see? this is not about my experience or about me, this is about us working with arena net: Team Work. I hope you understand. http://www.1000ventures.com/business_guide/im_fun_factor.html

“The Fun Factor”

“Leading a big company means never allowing a company to take itself too seriously.” – Jack Welch

“A Big Element of Your Business Strategy”

“What made you go into business and succeed in the first place? Was it fun and passion? Similarly, if you lose your passion or drive you’re going to lose business.
As business today is about passion and winning and creating new things, fun has become a big element in the business strategy of many highly successful businesses. People are unlikely to be creative if they don’t like their own company, and vice versa. “Nobody motivates today’s workers. If it doesn’t come from within, it doesn’t come. Fun helps remove the barriers that allow people to motivate themselves,” says Herman Cain.
No one should have a job they don’t enjoy. “If you don’t wake up energized and excited about tackling a new set of challenges, then you might be in the wrong job,” says Jack Welch.

“Innovation Must Be Fun”

“How important Is fun to innovation? Humor and fun at work are no longer optional, but critical to building an inspiring and engaging workplace which drives innovation and team performance. Many innovative companies adopted fun as one of their core values or guiding principles to lighten things up”.

“Hackathon” at JotSpot

“My sense is that innovation can, in reality, get quickly lost in a start up ? especially once that startup is launched,” says Joe Kraus, Founder of JotSport.7 This happens because the company is short staffed and the company is trying to get customers in as many ways as possible that it’s very easy to squeeze innovation out of the system and instead get focused exclusively on customer-driven development. You go from a company with a lot of great ideas and big visions, to a company with a year-long roadmap and no real sense of “I-came-up-with-this-great-idea-which-I-built-over-the-weekend-and-look-how-cool-it-is”.’

“Making Your Customers Laugh”
? Surprise To Win: 3 Strategies

“Why would people want buy from you if they don’t enjoy doing so? Making what you have to sell fun to buy is simply taking the whole process one step further. “If you can make your customers laugh, and excite them with your vision of what life can be, they are not going to walk into your outlets, but run into them. Running a successful business should be fun for you, and there’s every reason why you should be able to communicate that sense of fun to your customers. Certainly, if you aren’t having fun, you probably aren’t running a successful business.”1

Humor

Sir Arthur.8905:

Not upset it is getting delayed, but if they just said “next week” or even “in 2 weeks” people would calm down even though it would be further than they would hope. Like running a race without knowing how far you have to go, it drives you crazy. Nobody is mad if you tell them it will be a long time, and you finish it early. It is the not saying anything about it at all that brings the aggro. I’m not personally mad, but I definitely understand the frustration of some.

i agree with you 100%

Substance E.4852:

DarkSyze.8627:

I advocate and will always advocate for challenge: I will never advocate for no challenge. Having maximum advantage with no or almost no effort, no risk, no consequence and less penalty is instant fail to fun.

Lb requires full glass with little to no skills or traits devoted to survival. Even a glass melee ranger can wreck them against all but the best LB players.

Glass ranger is the one build that requires the absolute most skill to make work. Your understanding of risk vs reward and “effort” is so skewed I can’t really get a gauge of what you really think balance even is.

Here is better example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1see3Ih-fY

In my server, there is more thief class than other class. My server thieves party together:thief party and roam together. They also help clear way for commander by killing enemy OP class like thief, engineer, warrior and especially elementalist. It is nice to see dead OP enemy players when commander get to location with zerg. What is also nice is that, they try best to keep eye on not Op class and on not so experience player/ new player. Sometime they would invite me to roam with them which is nice experience

I guess every server is different but my server: we have many thief class player but not in zerg but in roam. So maybe if you can not find thief player in zerg or in large party, they might be in roam party?

i think it is a good topic

MarauderShields.6830:

glass cannon complains about being beaten by another glass cannon (arguably the worst, most easily shut down and most gimmicky).

rule 1 of the thieves guild: if you go burst, prepare to get bursted.

/thread

I agree thief class is burst class, the part i do not agree with make burst Instant Kill= Instant Guarantee Win!

Example; you play need for speed race game? Just because the car have boost do not guarantee instant win. If that was case, the game would fail for game company and its player.

Again, us player not saying thief can not burst but for Arena net design thief burst to guarantee instant win is fail design and fail balance for thief class.

Same for stealth example: us player do not care if thief stealth but for stealth to guarantee instant win is fail design and fail balance.

Last: for Arena net to Punish its player for chose glass build “just because thief is burst class” is also fail design and fail balance. Why punish other class for “just because”?

Example: so “just because” car have turbo engine, it is ok to guarantee instant win? very poor mentality.

Imagine if other company have same mentality, their company would instant fail.

That is call Monopoly! Monopoly: “1 Rule Them All” = No Challenge.

Monopoly: “exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices”. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monopoly

What do this mean? Thief is design to have exclusive control, exclusive advantage, exclusive possession and exclusive power over all class in the game: that is not right at all!! Discrimination is the after-effect to other class.

In result, us other class in the game feel discriminate because arena net design thief to be a monopoly class.

see here: it make all sense-

Discrimination— "

: the practice of unfairly treating a person or group of people differently from other people or groups of people

: the ability to recognize the difference between things that are of good quality and those that are not

: the ability to understand that one thing is different from another thing"

That is why us class feel treated unfair because of “for just because Thief” is that or do that, can do that!! and if us class complain, “it is our fault” or “we have to ltp”

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination

So what is solution?

First solution is for thief monopoly mentality need to end
Second solution is to redesign thief class without monopoly design

I hope you understand

thefantasticg.3984:

DarkSyze.8627:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

mtpelion.4562:

1500 range is offset by low DPS under 1200, plus the attacks are ridiculously easy to dodge (they are slow firing, slow traveling, and you have lots of time to see them coming from 1500 away).

That’s already been mentioned. So has dodging, reflection, blocking, and the fact that 1500 range can be covered in about 3 seconds by most professions. Also the fact that rangers have terrible defenses if specced for longbow. The problem here is that the OP doesn’t actually give the responses more than a cursory glance, and wonders why we get upset with him. It’s the online equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling “la la la I can’t hear you 1500 range OP!”

I am not doing that at all and i am listening. I will stop writing.

Good. You need to play more. Looking at your post history you’re currently advocating nerfs on Warriors, Engineers, Thieves, and Rangers. Please do us, and especially yourself, a favor and learn how to play the game instead of trying to get classes nerfed because you have problems fighting them.

It is not i am having problem with them because i like challenge. What i find problem is how they have more advantage without any effort and consequence. It is common sense for any game designer to not design a profession by give high it high advantage without have penalty, concequence and risk. Like one of the designer say, “it is complete suicide without having any risk”

I advocate and will always advocate for challenge: I will never advocate for no challenge. Having maximum advantage with no or almost no effort, no risk, no consequence and less penalty is instant fail to fun.

Last: How do these class; thief, engineer, ranger and elementalist is reward for doing almost nothing? While other class have to work 10x time harder for reward?

That is not Challenge!

Example: Marathon Race! – 8 runner— 4 runner using steroid, other 4 not using steroid, marathon end..

What 4 runner win?
What 4 runner lose?

(Remember: the marathon race require challenge and effort).

See this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFLgYy2VHV0

DevilishLyx.2340:

If anet knew what WvW was about they would have :

Limited server populations
Not separated NA and EU servers
Not ignored the players
Not infracted players for posting problems
Not banned players for posting problems
Not sneakily create a sticky thread telling people to stop necroing old posts
Actually done what they said they were going to do in said necro posts
Told us the truth
Not lied to us
Not continuously say they cannot talk about anything
Communicated with us in ways other than infractions
Listened to all WvW players not just the ones they like
Fixed bugs glitches and hacks
Not appointed someone with only 2 pages of posts, none of which were in the WvW forums, for forum specialist
Not allowed the free transfers to go on for so long
Made WvW achievements which made sense before release, 20 more years!
Have a TEAM of DEDICATED devs working on WvW, not one or two every now and again when they feel like throwing a carrot in front of us
and so on.

And there’ll be at least double that list somewhere I just cant remember everything.
Not forgetting we were also supposed to have a WvW CDI again, which was postponed and we’ve never heard about it since.

If you were not honest player, you would not make that long list. I believe you. I do not agree arena net ignore problem will make thing better, i do not agree arena net pretend there is no problem will make thing better. Again i believe you are tell truth and i hope arena net fix old problem before add new thing to the game.

I believe if a company refuse to to work with customer; nothing will change for better but for worse. That is 1 rule for company success: Work with customer. If a company Fail 1 rule: company will fail.

I can use many example for company who do that but i will not embarrass them.

I can use other example; like in relationship- if you are in relationship and you only see I, than relationship will fail. No matter if you buy other partner gift and present, relationship will fail. That is what company and customer is: a relationship. if company believe give new thing for customer will save company+customer relationship: it will not: very simple!!

I think that is what you are talk about and i understand.

Also company+customer relationship is important because of teamwork. No teamwork, Nothing will work: it will not last.

Here i want to share

http://www.indiemade.com/resource/making-customers-happy-how-give-great-customer-service

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/honesty-important-business-22624.html

http://www.the-happy-manager.com/articles/why-is-teamwork-important/