Guild Wars 2

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Don’t kill her, just retcon her out of the entire game.

would be awesome

Shiren.9532:

Thank god the Living Story has a female lead after so long. The women are just so unrepresented in the Living Story. We really needed a tough chick to show the men how it’s done.

this is a joke right?

Quarktastic.1027:

All of this can be considered grind. Worse yet, you just tacked this process on to stuff you already need to do to get a legendary, i.e. grind lots of T6 mats and skill points. It sounds like you want legendary weapons to be even more of a grind than they already are.

Your definition of grind is so subjective & inclusive it makes the word irrelevant. And while the word grind is subjective, the one thing common factor is repetition. Grind would be collecting 1,000,000 charged loadstones. Based on the current state of Guild Wars 2, there is no physical way to make the process the OP created LESS grindy because each activity is different. Yes, doing all the JP are essentially the same thing, but at least it’s in different locations with different solutions. You may think it’s to LONG, but grindy? You couldn’t make it less grindy unless you just want it to be easier. Also, I don’t know that the OP wanted the same # of mat collections as currently required.

As far as people saying exploration is grindy, again your definition of grind seems to be “I don’t like it”(which I guess makes sense since it’s the only part of the word grind left when each activity is varied in action & location from the previous one). Fortunately exploration is one of the most popular & amazing aspects of Guild Wars 2. It blows every other MMO away in that category. If you guys don’t like it, say “I don’t like it” but the word grind certainly doesn’t apply.

haviz.1340:

Calae.1738:

Would you consider killing NPC’s in one or two shots to be interesting gameplay? When would tactics and strategy come into play in this particular situation?

I would consider killing stronger NPCs.

So, you want things to stay the same? I’ve got good news for ya..

Calae.1738:

This game is one of the worst grinds I have ever experienced.

you DEFINITELY haven’t played any other MMOs.

Walhalla.5473:

Erukk.1408:

DarksunG.9537:

lol they are already retconning her because they realized what joke she is! that’s good. the less smart & less powerful & less influential they make her the better. they surely can’t line up that new data with what they’ve said & shown. retcon retcon lols.

It’s not really a retcon. If people read all the dialogue in the Closing Ceremony instance, they would have heard Vorpp say she got engineering degrees at each college. The player base then assumed she also did the entire course work for each college on top of that as well.

You know what happens when people “assume” something…

Sadly it’s too late. People will think of her as a villian sue and put all their hate in her, which is in my opinion unjustified.

But your are right, Anet didn’t retcon her, she wasn’t a sue in the beginning. What Vorrp said could make her this but the short story said that she didn’t graduate from the colleges. She finishes courseworks, it’s not the same as graduating the colleges.

And the eternal alchemy thing? Did someone really believe that she saw the eternal alchemy?

omg people splitting hairs to justify an awful character. the whole point: she’s a level of smart that is stupid. end of story. all this garbage about “she only took xyz course, didn’t finish this & that.” yeah, Einstein didn’t excel at his writing classes either. the point is they want her to be so smart that she’s just “awesome sauce”
It may actually be WORSE that she didn’t finish in all the colleges because the implication (& the test she took to prove it) is that she could have easily done it without even being taught. The fact that the Asura ADMITTED she was a prodigy & that Vorpp felt it an affront that a stupid Sylvari was smarter than him all scream Uber genius. It’s so obvious that her back story is built to show that she was ahead of everyone (to the point where she already gets everything & it 100 acclimated when she is BORN) that people trying to explain it away is more funny than anything.

I wish I could explain how wrong the OP is, but I don’t think it would matter.. It’s like having someone watch the Plinkett reviews of Episode 1,2&3, & they still like them.

frostyraziel.1854:

Scarlet is the worst thing that could have happened to the living story. I hope anet realizes that and get’s rid of her soon. There’s nothing intimidating about her. It’s just “lol i’m gonna do this evil thing for no reason lol so random, btw did i mention i’m perfect at everything but making a successful plan”.

agreed. on paper, she might sound good, but there is no accounting for being an annoying joker knock-off.

I don’t wanna be a living-in-the-past cliche` here, but let me do a little name droppin:

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Demonic_Fortune_Teller —> (Shiro)
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Razakel —> (Terick) --> Khilbron
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Palawa_Joko
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kanaxai
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Verata
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bahltek
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rend_Ragemauler
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rragar_Maneater

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blarp (not actually a villain, but still made Liadri look EASY by comparison)

Most of these were very unique characters doing interesting, or mysterious but SPECIFIC and very Nefarious things that justified the title villain…. And most of them had a very profound impact on what the world is 250 year later.

I love you.

Coldin.2840:

I still say that people are saying she’s a Villain Sue simply because they do not like the character. Her main super power here is that she’s smart. That’s hardly any different than many other villains.

As I said earlier. She did not master everything. She left before she mastered what she was learning. She learned just enough about the topic before deeming the rest unimportant. Generally, as being a villain sue is a form of wish fulfillment, they actually are intended to be victorious in everything. As it is, she simply has a backstory to flesh out her rather non-committal and non-conformist personality, and give some explanation for why she’s capable of turning the Clockwork Knights into the nightmares. Past that, she’s failed at kidnapping Queen Jenna. She was driven out of pavillion and her captives were rescued. She’s been “beaten” at countless invasions. Most characters discount her as being a crazy loon and while she may be a threat, I don’t see characters treating her unbeatable.

And let’s be fair to Arenanet here. They’re mostly clarifying things, not back-peddling. It was never specifically stated that she completed every college, just that she was able to enter each college. They never said she truly saw the eternal alchemy. They merely implied that she had some kind of other worldly experience, and saw things. It’s never really stated exactly what she saw, but it’s clear that it’s what tipped her over the edge to being completely insane. In fact, one of the asura states that seeing the eternal alchemy is impossible.

So I still think people are taking this Villain/Mary Sue thing a bit too far. Let’s give Arenanet a couple more story updates and see how it goes. I personally think it should be interesting to see how something like Caithe reacts to Scarlet.

Just because you like her doesn’t make her a good villain. I think there is more indicated in her story that she is a villain sue than not. I think most people see the truth that Anet intended her to be amazing at everything (& no, there is nothing saying that she didn’t master those things. The implications are extreme that she was so smart & amazing that she tried everything everywhere & just that she got bored with them & moved on because they were too easy) & to keep harping on “we beat her, we beat her” it so utterly pointless. Every villain is foiled by the players repeatedly in some way. It’s the nature of games. (especially when they set it up so that when you beat her she acts like it’s what she wanted to happen all along) Zaitan, in-game, is an exorcise in failure so many times it’s hilarious. It has little to do with villain sue. (some of the definitions even talk about how defeat is often used to enhance the villain sues)
I think her attitude is the best indication of Villain sue there is. The writer clearly things she’s cleaver, sassy, fun girl that we’re supposed to like. She’s actually annoying as frick. On top of that, her personality is so obviously not-conducive to being able to muster an army that massive from alternate dimensions & factions that it’s just a: “Scarlet could do this because she’s so cool & uber!” reasoning that points to the wish-fulfillment of a villain sue.
& no, being more intelligent than any mortal in the GW universe (Asura are the most intelligent & admit she accomplish more than was possible) is not villain 101.
Also, it makes no sense for the pale tree to try to stop her from seeing the eternal alchemy unless she’s seeing the eternal alchemy. It’s back pedaling, & it’s good they are doing it.

You might like her, but I think you’re using that as a reason to say she’s not a Villain Sue, more than people saying the opposite. but bth, it doesn’t matter, it’s more that she’s horrible than that she’s a Sue. it’s just Sues are generally awful.

If we can kill off all 3 of the Sylvari it would be a triple WIN!

I love the new back item.. I DO wish they’d branch into shoulder, helm & hand armor (if not full sets)

also, need wardrobe.

omg.. please don’t ruin TMK by tainting him with Scarlet…

Agreed, the faster she gets erased from existence the better. Annoying, stupid character.

Magic/tech… i’m fine with.. Scarlet..kitten.

Coldin.2840:

A villain sue would be showing us someone who’s a lot more infallible. Someone who always comes out on top of the heroes. So far, she’s mostly just caused a bit of chaos and manages to get away at the end. Still sounds like your basic villain to me. Now, you may not like her because she’s the generic intelligent and insane villain archtype, but that does not make her a Villain/Mary Sue.

um.. no. a villain is almost always going “fail” in some way. being a villian sue has nothing to do with being infallible. & just because someone is intelligent doesn’t make them able to do everything amazingly with no effort. she DID master everything. finish the courses? who cares. Einstein didn’t excel at everything in college either. (incidentally Anet tried to soften the blow recently by saying she didn’t finish from every college. just that she took a special exam that proved she could. umm.. difference?) being a super, multidimensional genius who has seen all of reality (which they are trying to backpedal on) tried every trade but gave up because they were too easy is not villain 101. It’s “I want this character to be everything & have a sassy pop-culture crazy-girl personality 101”

CHIPS.6018:

Forget elder dragons. I want to get inside Wizard’s Tower.

Such awesome things like the Wizard’s Tower (Verata?), the Mursaat.. & what do we get?

Scarlet..

Seriously? What are they holding stuff in reserve for? at the rate they are going through stories we won’t finish the Elder Dragon fights until 2023. Never mind the Wizards Tower, the Mursaat, the Gods, Menzies, Dhuum. it’s like they are trolling us.. all this cool stuff & they want to go with Scarlet.. They took a year to build up to an excruciating villain & say “We didn’t have enough time to properly do something like the Mursaat”
.. uh.. what? Then why start on something else? If you need to build up to the Mursaat, you need to start as soon as possible or you’re NEVER going to get there. Now Anet feels like they have pay back the investment fail that is Scarlet, meaning we have to endure more of her.

Nilkemia.8507:

Now they’re just playing vague to see what answer we’d prefer, wheter she saw the Eternal Alchemy, the Dream/Nightmare/Mists, or just went crazy in there.

I’d prefer that they take the hint that Scarlet should be phased out of the game as quickly as possible.

PopeUrban.2578:

They’ve already pretty much said that it’s scarlet until the end of the year, as the entire LS up to this point (except for the southsun bits, SAB, and possibly Teq’s evolution) has been Scarlet related.

I mean they only let US know it was scarlet related a couple patches ago, but yeah, expect scarlet to be escalating to a final battle to take place in november/december.

Next year dragons maybe.. or something else.

We can only hope they kill her off & retcon her out of existence as soon as possible. She’s single handedly killed what was left of the GW story for me.

Dungeon revamp: awesome.

Involving Scarlet: worst idea ever.

kristof.7182:

If Tequatl is stronger because of Scarlet, I’m quitting.

ugh.. agreed.

The 6 gods are dead because of Scarlet. She killed them all at the same time. She is that strong.

At this point, that is the level of story I’m expecting from Anet.

Short version for why I linked: She didn’t graduate the full college courses, but specialized coursework that only proved she had what it takes to do the full college coursework. She didn’t see Eternal Alchemy (most likely) as she was merely placed in a sensory deprivation device (basically, she hallucinated). Her superiority complex she always had expanded greatly because of said hallucinations.

lol they are already retconning her because they realized what joke she is! that’s good. the less smart & less powerful & less influential they make her the better. they surely can’t line up that new data with what they’ve said & shown. retcon retcon lols.

omg, can we STOP with the Sylvari? getting SO SICK of Anet’s Sylvari swooning.. on top of them getting all hot & bothered over all things Sylvari (the 2nd least popular race) We have to deal with Scarlet, the most annoying character ever, AGAIN?

I think it best if they make it so you have to protect some NPCs that are shooting the cannons to remove his buffs, then give additional cannons to players for support. (heal/poison removal) or maybe split is 50/50. 3 npc cannons & 3 player cannons.

I like that this requires team work, but there needs to be some way for a good, working-together guild to do it, even if there are morons playing there.

Mirta.5029:

MrPhazon.1370:

stop being lazy and learn the fight? first challenge in gw2. Stop whining and start learning the boss

I know the fight. I was there for the stream. Other people trying it also knew the fight. When even Beta people can’t take the boss down, there’s something wrong with the boss.

it might not matter if you have 50 ppl who know the fight are there, if 6 ppl on cannons don’t. I think that is probably the issue.

showtime.9175:

There was no guide when we did it. We triggered about every trap to find the right way, so the death count is probably in the thousands.

yeah, sounds too easy. /sarcasm

I’m excited about a hidden plot as long as it’s not )#*&^#% Scarlet. I have a feeling they are just gonna use this opportunity to take something cool like SAB & try to ram Scarlet down our throats again to get us to think she’s cool. She’s not. She’s stupid.

Do something cool like make one of the dragons seeping into the tech of the Asuras, or a new good enemy like the Mursaat, but for %$(&*^ sake, not Scarlet.

Josh Foreman.8250:

DarksunG.9537:

I think you have misinterpreted what made SAB fun. It’s not the hair ripping “OG hard-coreness” it was cute fun puzzles with occasional tough jumping at a pace you can enjoy.

Well I don’t expect anyone to read this whole thread at this point so I won’t fault you for not having read the 20 times I’ve said I didn’t intend Normal Mode to be as hard as it appears to be to average players.

As to the pacing issue. What made you feel rushed? Is it the length of the levels? Or do you just mean specific timed puzzles like the rolling gong?

It’s not so much feeling rushed in terms of time. But feeling like I have to do everything perfectly or I lose a life. That’s not fun. I loved getting all the achievements in W1, now it’s gonna be grueling. Yeah, I feel good having achieved victory because it’s hard, but I don’t actually have FUN while doing it because i’m just stressed that this one stupid jump is effing impossible (ninja trees hitting invisible ceilings & landing on invisible edges) or I didn’t time every last attack perfectly at weird angles to kill the mob that can chain-kd on a tiny ledge, or because the stupid rapids jumps that (as far as I can see) I did perfectly, knocks me down in mid air & juggles me for 20 seconds then kills me.

How fun is that going to be when I’m trying to find every last bauble for the achievement? when I have to go over the same infuriating twitch-jump 10 times because I have to roam around & look for hidden areas? Also, Owls that steel baubles? seriously?

And why is almost ALL of world 2 bottomless pits? really? I liked jumping around on the leaves , figuring out how one thing leads to another & having an interesting zone & puzzle to figure out & explore, not “every inch is an insta-death chance”.

And making the hidden baubles once a day. really? Isn’t the punishing difficulty enough of a gate?

Josh Foreman.8250:

Well I would challenge anyone who thinks SAB W2 is harder than Zelda 1 to beat the last couple of dungeons! Zelda is WAY harder. Even so, I certainly don’t want to punish anyone for playing anything I make. Quite the opposite. I really, truly, honestly only want to make people have fun when they play my content. Some people have fun with brutal instant kill stuff like Tribulation Mode. But Normal Mode should not feel like that.

I dunno.. going through the spike traps following the gong. Pretty much.. not fun. I mean, the idea is cool. but in stead of going: “oh cool, the gong block the darts!” we were like.. “OMG, ANOTHER level to this spike trap building? man.. this is tedious.. 2 is enough.”

I feel like trying to go through & get all the secrets will be extremely annoying. In SAB W1 you could take your time & try to figure things out with your friends.. It was so fun to find the secrets because you figured them out, not because you were under the gun from either sliding all over, watching corners, getting shot from the other side of the building or something else “hard core”.

Too much twitchy jumping, not enough fun/relaxing exploration & secrets. That’s what I loved about SAB. figuring out the puzzles with my friends & finding all the bubbles/getting achievements. Not the super-hard micro jumping pad on rushing water with ice on it.

I think you have misinterpreted what made SAB fun. It’s not the hair ripping “OG hard-coreness” it was cute fun puzzles with occasional tough jumping at a pace you can enjoy.

So far, My biggest complaint is the Water knocking me down when I’m actually in the air or landing on a rock.. it’s infuriating when you’re doing it right, but it’s not working because the collision is bad.

also,
W2 L1 music.. ughh..
W2 L2 music: cool

Josh Foreman.8250:

Fhaeris.9237:

@everyone: they made it this hard just to sell more infinite coins off the gem store. Don’t fall for this trap.

We made it so that it’s fun to play. It’s quite possible that we are just THAT much better at jumping than the average player, but I doubt it. I want it to be fun. If MOST people think it’s too hard to be fun then I’ll reduce the difficulty. But like I said above, we don’t have good numbers on that yet.

No offense, but pretty much everything you’ve posted here sounds like an excuse. You can’t have a missions with hard-to-see traps, super precise jumps, tons of enemies & tiny platforms & just say “working as intended”. Especially on a difficulty level “normal”.
The fact that the hidden treasure chests are once a day & you sell an infinite coin just make the whole thing look suspicious.

One of the things there is DEFINITELY no excuse for is the horrible hit-detection & range on the sword & especially the whip. most fights I have consist of misses at ranges I can easily hit with a regular sword.

Additionally I’ve been killed by a snake AFTER it exploded.

Iridiana.9078:

Totally agree.
SAB was fun because it was like an old school platform game, you could keep running it and digging/farming bauble as much as you like.
Now you have to run it ONCE per day and World 2 is so difficult and boring, with such a bad collision on rapids, you’ll get bored after 10 mins.

agreed. This change is SO stupid.. I had a ton of fun playing though it, then I played it to get the skins. so.. now it’s like.. if you wanna farm em, go screw yourself.

SAB is only out a few times a year, now they made getting skins frustrating. Farming, especially in a game mode that is essentially made to be single player doesn’t hurt anything here. So they take it out. fantastic..

Namica.2951:

The more I learn about Sylvari and the more I see Sylvari characters, the more I think that they pretty much just make the game’s story suffer.

They’re a young race of people who have a strong tendency to learn faster than anyone due to their giant shared, but not truly shared racial conscious.

Despite humans losing their god, they essentially have their own with the Pale Tree, who is pretty much a demi-god (if not a god outright, as seems implied by the Scarlet short story).

Immune to magics of the series main antagonist (dragons).

So far have one character who is the games main good guy, and another who is the games main villain (that isnt a dragon)

Well loved or at least tolerated by all the races with rather little explanation for it

The one member of destiny’s edge who can’t really be said to be at fault for their breaking up, and who the other 4 all still respect.

Makers and users of pretty much the series most powerful weapon (that we know of).

I mean. So much about them just screams “mary sue”. They’re just so perfect in just about everyway, with no real flaws to speak of. Its like they were just put in the setting for everyone else to love. To be more amazing than anyone else. I really expect for us to get a short story where they outfight a Norn, because they already have outsmarted the Asura, out-dietied the humans, and out-unified the Charr (heck, apparently Traeherne is the series best general too, so take that Smoldur the Unflinching).

I totally agree. The Sylvari feel out-of-place, over-powered, over-focused on, frankly, annoying. They make the other races obsolete in their “we’re good at everything” flavor. Scarlet was the final nail in the wow-sylvari-are-SO-annoying coffin. I’m done with them. They are not one of the more popular races. They are WAY too important to the story & Anet needs to stop getting all hot & bothered by their Sylvari & stop trying to convince us they are great. They aren’t as cool as they apparently think they are.

I agree with the person who says Mary Sue is being overly used. A Mary Sue was originally a character written in fanfic that was unbelievably perfect because it was the author’s fantasy

That fits fantastically. Any “flaws” they put into the Sylvari are conjured up for Sympathy or to make them “quirky” or “cool”. The Sylvari are so fan-fic they feel like they are from deviant art. Scarlet is just the coup de gras, the logical end of the fan-fic.
As far as Eir being a flatter character than Caithe, at least she’s not a sappy angsty DA character. The only thing that makes Eir flat is the fact that they seem to afraid to make Norn important at all in the story. Then they have the token Norn idiot, Brahm.

How my character looks is so much more rewarding than being able to kill a mob in 6 hits instead of 10. Talk about pointless.

Master of Timespace.2548:

DarksunG.9537:

Talverion.6074:

Your armor in no way affects your account bound magic find. All MF on armor will disappear. The way we will be able to increase our account bound MF is by salvaging blue and green items and using, what I assume to be, a “Magic Find Essence” or some such.

weird, i never heard anything about that. There is no attempt to try to equate player’s current max MF gear stats into their account? So, everyone will essentially lose a large chunk of MF & have to earn it again?

They want to nerf MF to prevent farming. How difficult can it be to understand something like this?

& at the same time add a huge influx of mats & items in the form of the Champ boxes? it’s not about wanting to nerf farming. The change has more to do with players not hurting teams by picking noncombat stats.

Talverion.6074:

Your armor in no way affects your account bound magic find. All MF on armor will disappear. The way we will be able to increase our account bound MF is by salvaging blue and green items and using, what I assume to be, a “Magic Find Essence” or some such.

weird, i never heard anything about that. There is no attempt to try to equate player’s current max MF gear stats into their account? So, everyone will essentially lose a large chunk of MF & have to earn it again?

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Non-MF runes/sigils/etc in your MF gear will stay the same, you are not losing them.

Hey Martin, I’m still confused as to how the MF from the gear gets to our account.

So like.. Say I have a set of armor that gives 100% MF & I have 0 achievement points. How much MF will I have in total after I update my gear?

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Hey all, no worries, we got you covered.

Weapons, armor and trinkets with magic find will become account bound, lose their current stats and will gain the ability to be double-clicked to select one of several stat options depending on the item.

For example, if you have an Explorer’s Pearl Staff, you can now double-click it to change it to any other crafting stat.

We will have a blog post about it with more extensive information as well, keep an eye on the website.

Hi Martin, are there solutions in place for Runes of the Traveler?
still confused about how the MR moves from our armor to our account. Right now it just looks like it’s going away, not transferring. that can’t be right.

Quarktastic.1027:

Nothing in GW1 or GW2 says the gods didn’t create magic. Perhaps they did.

The story of magic is the story of Tyria. When the Giganticus Lupicus walked the world, magic was said to be “wild”, and was practised by the elder races of the world with impunity. When the Elder Dragons awoke, they began to consume everything around them, feeding on the magic of the world. The Seers gathered up all the magic in the world that had yet to be corrupted and sealed it within the Bloodstone, and the surviving races were concealed by Glint, who had shaken off the yoke of Kralkatorrik – all except the mursaat, who, having discovered a way to slip beneath the skin of the world, betrayed the other races, keeping their magic. The Elder Dragons eventually ended their rampage for reasons unknown and returned to slumber, and the races of Tyria re-emerged……
Many years later, the Six Human Gods arrived at the Artesian Waters from across the Mists.

They weren’t even on the planet until after magic was being used willynilly. How many times do I have to point out the retcons? They do it a ton.

I’m gonna say, I totally hate Scarlet & what they did with the story, but…

Thanks Anet for making the best MMO that is live to date. The Gauntlet (which I thought I would hate) was cool, the Champ changes were cool. HoboTron was fun. looking forward to SAB (so awesome), Ascended Gear & new features!

Ykfox.3825:

Gotta be honest with you… I just want to see Scarlet dead. Very dead.

haha, /signed. I think i’d rather have freedom FROM Sylvari. Getting sick of Anet’s focus on them & how great & powerful they are.
Norn are the second most popular race choice & yet it’s like they want them to have as little impact on the story as possible. & Brahmn? lets make him wimpy, dumb & just follow Rox around.

Paul Belz.7351:

The original SAB achievement list will return, along with a new, separate achievement list for world 2.

There may even be a new special surprise for folks who finished the original list of achievements (which will also be available for folks who finish the original list while it is available)…

Ho SNAP!!! thank you for bringing SAB! Scarlet was the biggest disappointment in all GW2, SAB was the biggest surprise! The wounds may heal if Scarlet is retconned out forever!

YEAY! An cool updated to forget the awful stain that was Scarlet from our memories!!

SAB!!!!!

Unleashed.6195:

While the back and forth is enlightening, it has little to do with the thread. Not to mention, when contrasted against a setting that is fine dropping in characters like Scarlet, it looks a little bit like debating the true origin of Santa’s elves or the Hamburgler.

That’s cute, but it actually does. It’s possible they can retcon Scarlet to not be what she is. They’ve done it with much better characters, why not with a poor one?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And of course “they created the world” as according to some human myth. Only, I don’t remember it saying that in my copy of the Manuscripts.

In fact I just pulled it out . . . and there’s no mention of the world creation . . .

You didn’t read very far.. first page:
“Their task: shepard the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create the world around them.”

The whole idea that “the manuscripts are just some human myth!” is nothing more than an excuse for retcons. It assumes something that is completely unsubstantiated through the original release of GW1 (that because the history is written by a human, it must be questioned) and ignores something that we as players are told is true(that the manuscripts are a flavorful way to introduce players to the world of guild wars). Heck, the intro even says (out of character mind you):

Book I: The Lore of Guild Wars contains a brief summary of Tyrian history, along with an overview of the human kingdoms and a few of humanity’s known enemies. These
manuscripts tell the story of the origins of magic, of the Searing and the Cataclysm, and other key events that brought our world to the state in which you find it today.

It’s essentially saying (out of character) that THIS IS THE HISTORY of the game.
There is nothing in Prophecies, the game, the manual, that suggests that the manuscripts should be questioned. Especially for something that is printed outside of the game. The idea that this was meant to be a reveal, 5 years later, with zero impact on the humans (which, according to the retcon, makes no sense. it should shatter their world) transforming the function of the bloodstones, introduce a god-sized dragon threat that noone knew about (although we knew about some the races that survived & they only told us about the GD) requires more than “that was written by a human, therefore it must be wrong”.

It’s a retcon. Ready chapter 6 of the manuscripts, (written out of character) talks about the hall of heroes, The the fate of the dead. It doesn’t work that way anymore. retcon. Look at what it says again about Orr (written out of character):
Orrians looked after the buildings and structures left behind when the gods left Tyria,
caring for them in the hopes that one day, the divine beings who created magic and bestowed it upon the world would return.

the gods didn’t CREATE magic (now) .. retcon.

The entire game went one way, then all the sudden, when it was convenient to make room for something else, it went the other way.

MithranArkanere.8957:

I can’t say I like this Scarlet very much…
And I prefer not to get attached to any character in the game…

My favorite characters were Sieran, Tybalt, and Forgal…

oh man, Tybalt & Forgal.. so simple, so fun…

Characters become interesting because you understand their motivation.

Their motivations may be interesting, but it doesn’t make a poor character good. It can make a good character better, but often makes bad ones WORSE when the motivations: don’t fit the character, don’t make sense with the rest of the world, have unrealistic or contrived origins or achievements, overshadow other characters rather than working with them or simply come out of left field regardless of how ‘logically’ they fit. The problem is you can cram anything into a story & have an explanation for it. It doesn’t make it good.

Like I said, Darth Vader suffered a massive loss of people collective good will when people understand his “motivation”.

The truth is, motivation isn’t necessary for an enjoyable character, even though it can help.. Their personality is. That’s why so many good characters have shadowy backgrounds. As for transformers, the Autobots HAD motivations (wanted the cube to heal their planet, an extremely believable, honorable & sympathetic motivation.). it didn’t make them great characters. Motivation is a small piece to a big puzzle.

Gabby.3205:

Scarlet’s motivation is to break everybody free from destiny, to show that nothing is written in stone and that she can be more than a force against the dragons. She can be anything she wants to be. She can do anything and everything, not only be a dreamer or be lost in the nightmare. And why stop with herself, or the sylvari? Why not show all the world that we are not bound by destiny? Of course, that’s what her twisted mind thinks she is doing.
At least, that’s what I got from the short story.

& guess what? it doesn’t make her less annoying. or immature. or cartoon wacky.

All this “what’s her motivation” & “we need to know more” doesn’t make her character better. If someone is annoying, it doesn’t matter HOW they became annoying if they are still annoying. In fact, knowing that she actually DID see the Eternal Alchemy was the final nail on the “you must respect this awful character!” coffin. Watching it come out the cow doesn’t make it not a cow pie.

& about Darth Vader? umm.. after seeing 12&3, Vader dropped many pegs. You people put too much emphasis on plot & too little on character.

BobbyStein.2315:

I can’t comment on what Ree and Jeff are working on, but I can say that I’m ultimately responsible for the quality of the Living World story. I don’t imagine we’ll please everyone with our new direction, but that’s true of any story. That stated, I encourage people to leave their feedback. Just please be respectful.

It’s hard, man.. I don’t like a lot of the lore changes from GW1 to GW2. The main ones are the HUUUUGEEE retcon on the gods.. they went from the gods that created tyria & everything on it to semi-powerful beings that only the humans even talk about & they aren’t even in the game any more.

But after a while I slowly accepted it. The Dragons are boring enemies but at least they look cool & are “epic”. So I slowly warmed up to things.. & with the speculation of the recent events & how they may link to the Asura story line, I was getting jazzed again! it was the first time I was EXCITED by the story in GW2. the FIRST TIME.

Then Scarlet came..

I’m trying to be respectful here but also be true to how i feel about this character. I’m not trying to make a personal attack, I don’t think anyone should be fired, etc.. that’s just idiotic.
That’s being said.. Scarlet is the stupidest character in all of GW. She’s annoying, not menacing, not witty, looks stupid, she’s Sylvari (can we get off the Sylvari for once) her back story is not believable(tbh, the more I find out the more ridiculous she’s becoming) and her power-level makes great, mysterious enemies like the Mursaat look wimpy & ineffectual. Worst of all, is her actual personally. The sassy, “crazy”, rebellious teen is… its annoying.

Other things like the gods retcons can be begrudgingly accepted. They still feel wrong, but the story can move forward. For Scarlet i feel like the only way to fix it is to make her back story a dream, or a lie (like what was done with the gw1 gods lore) or an illusion that someone put on her. & the Alliance of the 3 armies? maybe someone else actually did it.. but leaving things as the are.. I’m gonna believe scarlet is non-canon, just ignore the actual story from now on, or just move on till scarlet blows over.. And know more about a character’s background doesn’t make them better. Sometimes the mystery makes them cool, so explaining more & more doesn’t make her not annoying.

As far as the Elder Dragons, I think if they went full Chthulu with them, like totally horror, they could be amazing. less “blow things up” & more mind-warping horror.

Is by far the GW character I hate the most & has almost irreparably ruined GW lore for me. It also made me understand that plot doesn’t make a character good. It’s their character/personality that makes a character good. Heck, we never even got Han Solo’s back ground & he still one of the greatest movie characters ever. He was great in the first 5 minutes on screen.

Scarlet is a supremely annoying childish craaaazy girl with the excruciatingly ridiculous OMG SO POWERFUL back story. Her personality isn’t fun, it’s annoying(the voice acting is great though). Tybalt was fun. Koss was fun. Scarlet is arrogant & “crazy” in a way that is an awful attempt to make her scary & commanding. But in reality it makes it impossible to swallow the idea that she could gather a force like that. This is what makes the “Oh but she saw the Eternal Alchemy” so frustrating. It’s an obviously jump-the-shark power boost to a character that only works on one level: being annoying. Good crazy/powerful character: River Tam. The craziness is real for her. it broke her. but you get little glimpses of her power & she can’t control it (cuz, acting like a sassy teenager isn’t crazy). she’s interesting, believable & you care about her character.

And even worse, it marginalizes much of past lore. They talked about how they wanted to introduce the Mursaat in an epic way. “do it right” well frick, Scarlet will just take em over or kill em. She knows everything. The Mursaat couldn’t hope to grasp all that, even Kormir may not know that much. But here comes the sassy, wacky, rebellious, crrrrraaaazy teenager; Scarlet! The Mursaat, master of magic could only amass a small army. but Scarlet, she’s really crazy, so she can get an infinite number of 3 armies! And she obviously knows how the dragons work! We can only hope for the LS update where Scarlet rides Kralkatoric into the zones! wooooo!!

Scarlet could work as a side kick. Someone that a real big bad “lets loose” on people to carve them up. But as a god-level intelligent master mind? Give me a break..

Narcemus.1348:

We’ve never seen villains pop up and take claim for all the past actions of GW stories… Cough Abaddon Cough I seriously think people need to get their panties unbunched and give them more than 1 single story to flesh out a character.

Wow.. you’re comparing Abbadon to Scarlet? Abbadon was awesome. The links made sense, they were convincing, they didn’t break previous rules & when you found out it was a great, satisfying twist. And most importantly, Addabon was a cool, calculating, menacing & understandable force that made him great.

Scarlet is an annoying teenager with the token “i can do whatever I want!” attitude with an deus-ex intelligence level (which when combined with such an annoying personality just makes her an immature power fantasy for teens) to try to compensate for a character that not one of her teachers would want anything to do with. then they hammered the final nail of the shark-jumping coffin when they made her comprehend all existence (though a simple machine of all things). I can’t stress how utterly stupid that story element is. It’s true, she should have been a burnt-out husk after that. her brains should have filled the inside of the pod. She didn’t appropriate the power of a god (which incidentally they’ve continued to ruin/play down/eradicate with every story element) & merge with it, she just used a machine. That’s ridiculous. All these stupid over-powered elements are slapped on top of a wacky edgy teenager to try to force us to believe she a threat. Varsh commanded power & authority. she was convincing & plausible. Scarlett is an attempt to try to force people (through unrealistically over-powering) to accept a character who’s personality is that of a the cheesy “sassy evil clown”.

One of the most egregious problems with Scarlet is that she belittles cooler characters like the Mursaat with her over-poweredness. As powerful as the Mursaat were (& they were) I would have never thought they could comprehend all existence. Now Slappy Mc Woo-Woo is smarter & can amass a greater army than them. really? Robert said

If I’m gonna do Mursaat and White Mantle, I (as a hardcore GW1 player) would want it to be epic and grand. We haven’t ..forgotten.. about them, I just have higher expectations for them than what I was capable of putting out in this release.

But it looks if he eventually does get to do the Mursaat it’ll all be under the shadow of Slappy McWoo-Woo. Her epic stain on GW has castrated a lot of previously cool elements with how much “cooler” we’re supposed to think she is.

My personal verdict on Scarlet:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/What-Scarlet-saw/first#post2695842 (It’s a two-part post)

You nailed it Thalador. Especially with how they’ve ruined the gods. The GW gods retcon goes like:
They are the gods & created the planet & all races
Not really, they didn’t make the planet.
They didn’t really make all the races
They didn’t make human even
They’re actually just HUMAN gods
they really BROUGHT humans
actually they’re really just really powerful guys
meh, actually most races aren’t even impressed by them
The dragons, they’re basically as powerful
You know what? just ignore them, they’re gone.

uhh.. what?

inazuma.7021:

Actually, there was some misogyny going on during Cutthroat Politics. Accusations of people only supporting Kiel because she has female assets. So it is not unheard of.

I love how misogyny now means “doesn’t prefer women over men”

Cyan.6904:

In your interpretation, yes.

To a point. I mean, if a mac truck is barreling down at you, it won’t matter what your perception is.. reality catches up.

ThiBash.5634:

Because she’s a Sylvari, and Sylvari in this game in general always outshine the other races. Asura are smart? Sylvari are smarter. Norn can drink? Sylvari can drink better. Charr can fight? Well, a Sylvari that doesn’t see himself lead an army does it better. Other racers become undead, but of course not Sylvari. Other races don’t want to work together, but Sylvari ‘will make them see reason’. And when it comes to brilliant blacksmiths, we get Norn (logical), Tengu (logical) and…well, a Sylvari because he apparently created an inpenetrable plant harness.

Sylvari seem to always outshine everything else, and quite frankly, I’m sick of it. The whole ’can’t grasp emotions very well’ bit was lost somewhere along the road, with only Seiran being a decent character. The rest are just one-dimensional Superman-clones.

Saw this late ThiBash, but I totally agree. I’m sick of the Sylvari being amazing at everything because they couldn’t find another way to be interesting. It’s like they got angry that Sylvari are the 2nd least favorite.. And are bashing us over the head with SYLVARI ARE AWESOME! YOU MUST ACCEPT! & having a Sylvari over achieve all the races totally taints the accomplishments of the other races. They will forever be pushed down to 2nd tier because “That Sylvari girl did it better”.
Can’t believe we lost out on Tengu for these guys… Man I hope this Scarlet story is a joke or a dream or an illusion or a manipulation by the Mursaat.

Lucky.9421:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz… to the plot.

Thumbs up to Scott on the writing. The writing is actually good.

There is a difference between good writing and good plot though. Hope Anet can do better in 2014.

I’m gonna agree. The character is the goddess of all annoying Sues, but the story was well written!

just have to say, just look up the definition to Villain Sue & holy cow.. a giant image of Scarlet should be on the wiki page.
She pretty much killed the LS for me. & if SHE is the “Nemisis” ohhhh fffffff..
Of ALL the content they are making permanent.. the garbage with Scarlet is staying.. WOW.

We saw there is in fact a personality in there other than “I’m going to mess up things and have fun”.

Umm.. not if you read it.. Her whole personality is “I do what I want. & what I want is to mess stuff up”
Sorry, the Vizier was FAR more compelling. Died after trying to stop the Charr army while worshiping Abbadon & then was directly manipulated to open Komalie to allow Abbadon to begin his invasion & revenge against the gods. he had reasonable limitations & reasonable goals based on his experience. Scarlett was just given everything in attempt to make a dumb character menacing.

Namica.2951:

So from this, we can add some things to Scarlet:

Master Smith
Master Sniper
Evil for the sake of being evil
Responsible for Asuran personal story

When will the sue-ing end? She was already a genius of stupidly large renown, and pretty much a female Traeherne. She is one of, if not thee biggest sue I’ve ever seen in an MMO.

Yeah.. I mean, this game has a serious girl-power slant to its writing, but this just pegged the meter.

shauncoates.6874:

She saw how the system existed before her and decided how she would become a new cog in the system in order to change the way it worked. She is changing the “grand design” (or at least is planning to).

Nettle.9025:

He warned her repeatedly about the danger to her life and her sanity

implies that maybe she isn’t all quite there anymore after this. Combination of genius and insanity maybe, so she believes she is an exception.

You guys are just regurgitating the plot at him. You’re not addressing what makes the character stupid. The fact that a single person can do any of this & that their personalty is about as awesome as an annoying teenager with token “i’m my own person you loser!” quips, make the character & the events wholly unbelievable & excruciating. On top of the fact that you give one character direct insight into the universe killing it’s allure & mystery.

I could have the exact same story with a squirrel that talks by farting. It doesn’t make the character better. If it were a Seer that were doing this, it might be slightly believable because they are more established as VERY powerful & also very mysterious. But Even Shiro whole traveled to different dimensions, destroyed a nation , escaped death & the shackles of his station as an Envoy (& all of it in a believable way) doesn’t have a glimpse of this.

This whole thing just screams “give Sylvari approval!”

Euin.3578:

I know that Guild wars has never been known for its grand writing, but… I guess they’re not paying their writers enough anymore. I haven’t seen a Sue this bad since 2007. I wonder if Arenanet even cares about the quality anymore.

Seriously.
Omg.. this is the dumbest, over-compensatey, girl-power we-need-to-make-Sylvari-important moment in Guild Wars yet.. kitten .. I thought it was stupid when they wanted the make the Dragons as powerful as the gods, now they have a stupid Sylvari with god-like knowledge & an idiotic ‘tee-hee, I’m such a great bad-a** & i’m fun too!’ character.

yeah, they said they were gonna do a dungeon revamp more than 6 months ago.

Oxstar.7643:

She was made to be a royal b*tch and fills the bill perfectly.

She ended up being an annoying, stupid looking, not believable, not menacing, woo-woo. She’s not a villain, she’s a fakey over-compensation.
Telling us she’s comprehended the Eternal Alchemy was a laughable attempt to make her have some kind of weight. it’s just so stupidly over-powered it comes off as a joke. I don’t care if the plot says she was an experiment from the Inquest “the final product of the CoE” or something like that, she’s a dumb character. If they wanted to do something like that the character should have ended up like Akira or Tetsuo. Not Jokey Mc Woo-Woo. so dumb.