Guild Wars 2

Super lame the female outfit doesn’t look like the male. Norns are modest now? uh huh..

Yeah, they need to be completely rethought. I’m at a loss for why it’s taking 3 years to come up with a useful, more interesting version of SW.

Another example of why PvP & PvE needs to be split.

Ugh.. another raid? ugh kitten .

Rococo.8347:

A few content release stats since Hot went Live:

Gemstore:
Back packs 7
Gliders 12
Outfits 6
Appearance sets 3
Mini 13
Utility 4

Black Lion weapon sets 8

There have been no new armor sets since Hot released with only 3 when it was, no in game Gliders, 1 soon to be released Legendary all others cancelled, 2 almost impossible to get shoulders, 5 Halloween skins, 3 back packs.

No NEW maps or LS or Festivals or events discounting the paid for Xpac since January 2015.

No new playable content until August/Sep 2016.

Staff supposedly working on current and backlog content paid for as part of HoT: 120
Staff working a new Xpac when the present paid for one has yet to be completed: 70
Staff taken off one agreed part of Hot to help complete another: 6
Staff working on gemstore and other money spinning areas out of the 120?

I have to agree on some level.

They have an AMA & talk about how it’s so hard & time consuming to make armor right after they went steam ahead on hyper expensive Gemstore skins pumping them out at a record pace right after the expac that has pathetically paltry rewards. Then they say it was a significantly sized expac. If they can’t admit that HoT was not worth the cost or that they are extremely stingy on rewards or that their Gem Store items (the only way to get most of the rewards added to the game) are extremely expensive, then I don’t know what to say. It’s way out of touch.

good video. I think his best criticism is of Mo’s comment on HoT. The idea that he or Anet consider HoT a decent expac size is just plain crazy.

tbh I don’t really care about Legendaries. I actually agree with most of what he said (although I’m at a loss as to how it took 6 people years to make 3 collections). But when Mike said that about HoT it just threw up a red flag. I feel like the only thing they create in the game at a significant rate is Geme Store Items. & that is infuriating.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Obviously I go into this knowing that some players will be very upset. That’s why it’s such a tough decision.

Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.” I take issue with that. We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more. Then we shipped precursor journeys for existing legendaries, and said, “We’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.” While I fully get that you’re disappointed today, this is not about us shipping half an expansion pack.

Mo

This is extremely disconcerting. If you & Anet as a whole consider HoT a full expansion I’m afraid you’re out of touch with your players. This a red flag for GW2 future development & explains a lot about what has been happening.

at least I’d have a definitive reason to stop playing

Can’t possibly disagree more with OP. the problem wasn’t that we had an expansion, it was that is was pathetically small. On top of that it was far more expensive than most expansions, & all of the rewards were turned into Gem Store items.

If they can’t create normal sized expansions for a reasonable price & have normal occasional updates they’ve created a product that, from the beginning, was unsustainable. Having 9/10 of the reward content in the gem store absolutely doesn’t make up for not having a sub fee. All it does is make the content in the game needlessly repetitive & grindy because they need to stretch out the meager rewards to make them seem substantial.

Jehuty.9608:

Nope….we all want Largos to be the next playable race, none of us want to play an ugly overgrown chicken.

Yes, because blue humans with cosplay wings are awesome?

There is nothing more boring than wasting an entire race on another human with a silly cosplay appendage & face paint. Races should take advantage of as much physical diversity as possible. MMOs have WAY too many human clones. we already have wing backpacks. Might was well just throw in some blue skin effects & we have the same thing.

Pandaman.4758:

And don’t be a hypocrite, you’re the one who started throwing around “Stockholm Syndrome” at anyone who doesn’t share your opinion.

I “throw around” Buyers Stockholm Syndrome when people rationalize purchases that are obviously overpriced. But that might be hard for you to grasp if you keep trying to rationalize everything. Most people know that this feature is super expensive.

Pandaman.4758:

Again, this is not a cash-only store. You can mitigate or completely eliminate the cost with the gold you get from playing, which means, to quote: “You can actually PLAY to get them!”

Since everything needs to be spelled out for you (even though I did explain this previously) The time spent getting it & the repetitive grind are even more time consuming than my work hours which already aren’t worth it. Yes, I can technically get anything in the gem store with gold, but pretending that there is no unreasonable rate or method at which to attain these things is just another rationalization.

Pandaman.4758:

You’re right, I consider trying to dismiss people’s opinions as a mental disorder worse than questioning the integrity of your character (not once did I say you weren’t entitled to your opinion, I’ll note, I just tried to get you to see how people do see value in it and aren’t “trolling”). I dunno, maybe you just don’t get that. Maybe you’re the kind of person who thoughtlessly throws out snide remarks and honestly gets hurt and surprised when the favor’s returned.

Post-purchase rationalization is not a mental disorder(at least not how you are implying) it’s a cognitive bias. Everyone does it at some point. You are simply rationalizing your purchase & telling other they can’t “see” the value to make yourself feel good about it. Calling people whiny, cheap, and impatient when they haven’t displayed anything of those traits is not only a falsehood, but a personal insult. You don’t like that people are pointing out the poor use of money so you’re attacking them.

Pandaman.4758:

Just because they like it doesn’t justify you accusing them of having a mental disorder, similarly just because you don’t like it doesn’t make you whiny, cheap, and impatient; demanding that ANet change its pricing, refusing to accept there’s an alternative to mitigate/elminate the cost, and insulting people who don’t share your opinion does make you that, however.

Criticizing “playing” the game repetitively for 4 months with many extra payed character slots for a minor convince is is neither whiny, cheap, nor impatient. As I first said, you can enjoy your Cognitive Bias (is that better?) but don’t tell other they should suffer from it.

Pandaman.4758:

It’s also perfectly valid that people see the slots as a way to multiply the value of other gemstore items across all their characters, which makes it an excellent value to them at the current price.

Is it? What makes it so valid? If people convinced Anet to give more value for their money, the only thing you’d suffer from is having more money or more value. People aren’t asking for it to necessarily to be free, but for it to not be a rip off. I think $10 – $20 for a shared bag slot is more than enough. especially after a small $50 expansion that obviously had rewards moved to the gemstore.

Baldrick.8967:

Pandaman.4758:

DarksunG.9537:

Hahah, so spending way more hours grinding gold than it takes to earn an equivalent amount at work is common sense?

It’s trivial to earn around 5g a day from casually playing (assuming you’re not slumming it in WvW, which has terrible rewards, or refusing to harvest anything you see). Two months of just having fun, just playing the game normally, and you’ll have 2000 gems (or at least close to it, depending on exchange rate). No grinding involved, no putting in more hours than you want into the game.

If you think that playing the game normally for two months is too much, or is less enjoyable than your work, then you’re either not enjoying the game anymore or your work is really awesome (I hope it’s the latter).

Waiting for the price to drop 20% for something that is 4 times it’s actual value is common sense?

If you don’t see the value of a 700 (or 560) gem item giving you the same benefits as buying an 800 gem item for every single character, then you’re free not to. You can see it as a 700 gem item that simply removes the minor inconvenience of swapping items through the bank. I said as much before.

Either way, it’s common sense to wait for a price drop on something you think is too expensive. It’s also common sense to simply not buy something if you don’t think the price will ever drop enough, particularly if it’s something that’s completely unnecessary.

No matter how you try to spin it, the value doesn’t equal the cost. Yes, you definitely have Buyers Stockholm Syndrome.

Tell you what, two months from now I’ll get my five account wide slots for free (mmm, all that gold from just 20 minutes of flax farming every day, love having 18 characters) and you can keep crying about how expensive it is. I will gladly accept having Stockholm Syndrome and you can accept being whiny, cheap, and impatient. Deal?

This made me laugh. You’re going to spend 30 minutes a day for two months (you’re not able to log in 18 toons and pick up flax and sell it in 20 minutes – the flax point does move a bit) just to earn $35. That’s around $1 an hour. What a waste of a life that sounds like- although I admire your dedication. And your flax price seems high- 3 per toon= 54 per day, you saying 5g a day, flax = 9.5 to 10 silver each?

Compared to the price of entire games, these slots are expensive- basically about the same price as the expansion should have been.

Yeah, Pandaman is really trying to rationalize that purchase. It seems he’s also using the false “it’s so easy to get gold from casual play” argument by overstating the value of flax, Underestimating the amount of time required & acting like having 18 character slots & is normal or free. & ultimately hides behind the “whiny & cheap” jabs … Lots of rationalizations & insults.

Luckily my job is awesome & I often spend nights working rather than playing games, but that’s besides the point because it’s still effort. In a world where games are about $60 (many are $30 nowadays), $10 for an inventory slot is laughable. It basically just makes the UI experience what it should have been. At that cost Pandaman must think every videogame that comes out is a mind-blowing deal. Heck, you can pay $10 -$15 a month in most MMOs & they don’t even lock the rewards behind gambling! You can actually PLAY to get them!
Pandaman, you do have buyers Stockholm Syndrome, it’s not an insult the way you insult people. It’s really plain that the price of 5 slots isn’t worth 2/3 of HoT. There is no way to twist the logic to fit that unless you illogically rationalize your purchase.

Pandaman.4758:

Sorry if common sense sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to you though, not everyone is completely free of the horrible constraints of logic.

Hahah, so spending way more hours grinding gold than it takes to earn an equivalent amount at work is common sense? Waiting for the price to drop 20% for something that is 4 times it’s actual value is common sense? No matter how you try to spin it, the value doesn’t equal the cost. Yes, you definitely have Buyers Stockholm Syndrome.

Pandaman.4758:

DarksunG.9537:

Bekkr.6192:

Occasionally I forget how complainey these forums are, but never for very long.

ikr.. All the people complaining about the communities legitimate price concerns are getting annoying. It’s like some people actually think this price is somehow reasonable. Maybe they’re just trolling..

Let’s see, if you buy a copper-fed salvage-o-matic for each of your characters, and you only have the default five character slots, that’s 8000 gems.

For 1500 gems (one salvage-o-matic and one account wide slot) you get the same benefit as above.

Or you can just get one salvage-o-matic and swap it around your characters through the bank and save even more if you’re a cheapskate like me.

Yeah, & nether of those things is worth either of those costs! The value of that level of convenience isn’t worth $20, much less $100. It’s a minor QoL tweak that should be like $1-5. Especially when you can buy a whole game for like $30. But whales make it economically viable. Rich people & people who are bad with money can sustain this ludicrous price rate while most people will just move on. You can enjoy your Stockholm syndrome, but don’t try to tell people they should have it too.

Werdx.2059:

WoW,i can not believe how many lazy people is out there.No wonder everyone complains how hard getting legendary is.

Before this sale,people willing to spend over 5 k gems to buy tons of Copper-Fed Salvage-o-Matic for multiple chars,just because they are lazy to use bank in pvp lobby,which teleports you back wherever you were.

Loging one char,and put 5 items in bank,and reloging on desired char,takes 20 sec.Ye,complain more,how these sales sux,and you are first to spend money on them…

Laziness is sickness.

The blatant purchase rationalization on this thread is even more sickening. 10 slots for more than the price of HoT & people who call that a ripoff are considered “sickening”? really?

hennrick.4623:

Dear diary, today i saw how much the nearsight of the players can get.

People asking for more slots so they can trade gear between characters. Too bad that not only the potential 6 professions of your account would not like to see the armored gear of the other 3 but also that the gear is soulbound on equip, making the operation impossible even with a bank.

People asking for more slots for stuff that is cheap, or that is useful only in situational cases, or both. Stuff like crowbars and alikes for HoT or for food, that might and might not be wanted for every character on the account.

People saying “Duh else you can get to the HoT”, avoiding the fact that this makes you go across 2 loading screens and that ejects you out of your current map, like just after defeating Tequatl. Not a big deal for those that stay always in HotM probably, but lucky them then.

And then, people completely disregarding the economics of the game, where a copper salvage fed worth 800 can be shared with every other character with a price of 700 for a potential value of 800 x character gems making it useful with only a second character, completely overriding the needs of a player to buy stuff more than once and reducing the potential income overall of the company.
Also people calling Anet greedy for something not forced and that makes a player spend less money for an higher value service is plain ridiculous to me. The only complain that i have is that you have to necessarily have bought something with an high gem price before making a good use of it, so i would have liked it to cost less or have the ability to “boundle” it with gem store items.
Maybe is not everyone’ s piece of cake, but still has its worth for those who like it.

Also, for those who are asking refunds for items already bought multiple times: you have my sympathy and i hope Anet will manage something for you, but i hardly doubt you will get one. Simply because you don’ t have the right to do so. If something is broken or is not deemed fitting then there can be refund rights, but if something becomes outdated ( which is not the exact case, but is similar enough ) you still have benefited of that thing for a long time, and you decided to invest your income into that. No one forced you to do so and no one admitted that there would not be a way to share items for your characters ( and actually that already existed for a long time ), that was your choice weighted by you.

That is some exquisitely worded buyer’s Stockholm syndrome. Sorry, but people saying that 5 shared slots has the same value to them as an entire game are likely rationalizing a purchase. I mean you’re saying it has as much value as most of HoT. To say that people criticizing the price are “nearsighted” is irrational at best. People have plenty of reason to be upset.

Silverwing.8750:

If you buy 5 they are 560 gems per slot.

Are you suggesting.. this is some kind of deal?

Sure 5 rolls of paper towels for $50 is cheaper than 1 roll for $15, but they are both insane in cost.

I see no difference, what happened?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

DarksunG.9537:

So, just to clarify…you’re saying it is 1 FREEKING SLOT for 1 ITEM? For $8+? I can’t even encapsulate in words how much of a rip off that is Anet. The armor is already expensive, the keys are literally legally-distinct gambling, & you’ve put most of the rewards that should be in the game for goals into the store & at the same time you’ve made posts asking us how to fix RNG. Really? Is the continuing issue of rewards not extremely obvious?

I couldn’t have been happier with the value & quality of GW1 when it came out. Anet was amazing, I literally bought items I didn’t want just to support the company. Now It’s the most expensive MMO I’ve ever played. easily. For me to get access to the same quantity & quality of content & rewards I got in other sub MMOs, I would have to spend thousands of dollars per year in GW2 or play for more hours there are in the day with the sole purpose of maximizing gold generation.

You’ve misunderstood what you’re paying for. As Cyninja.2954 said, it’s a convenience multiplier item: for 700 gems, it extends the value of any account bound item you already have. If that’s not convenient for you, don’t get the item.

For me, it’s a great deal — I was expecting to pay 1,000 gems for something like this.

That’s some hard-core rationalization. You act like labeling something a “convenience multiplier item” allows for infinite valuation. If you need to convince yourself that you spent your money well, that’s fine, but don’t treat other people like idiots because they ascribe a reasonable value to a service.

The fact that they even tried this is insulting. 700gems for ONE SLOT.

I can’t explain how ludicrous this is. Maybe, MAYBE, 100gems. but 700? What on earth are yall thinking? this is insane. 1 BAG slot I would totally be on board with.

If you guys at Anet wanted to broadcast to the players “We only care about whales! So long, suckers!” then you’d done it. loud & clear.

This last year has proven Anet is done with value & is entirely focused 110% on return. first they moved all the rewards in HoT to the gem store & bloated the expac with a paltry number of slow, grindy rewards & “progression” to give the illusion of value, now they are going strait for the whales, no subterfuge, just “kitten it, income over image.”. Which may work for their business, but they certainly don’t give two kittens about what people think of them.

Cyninja.2954:

Jia Shen.4217:

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but this is one skimpy slot that holds just one item? If so are people nuts, paying $9 to save yourself a few seconds each time you decide to play on a different character and want to transfer items to that character. I wouldn’t even spend $1 for just one of that. You do realize for 600 gems you can get a whole bank tab? And even at that price I feel it is overpaying for something that should be gained as a in game reward. I’m not normally one to cry price gouging but this item qualifies as a price gouge if I ever seen one.

It’s a pure conveniance item, you’re saying so yourself.

Is it expensive? Absolutely.

Is it mandatory? No.

Does it multiply the value of your other conveniance items? Yes, and that’s it’s main draw. People now can get 1 permanent tool, salvage-o-matic, royal pass, etc.

Pricing the item any lower than 700 gems would devalue multiple of those permanent items (most of them priced at 1,000 gems) even more.

You are forgetting the crowd of people who have:

- full bank tabs
- full material tab extenders
- salvage-o-matics
- royal access passes (any of them)
- more than 5 characters (most veterans are going on 10-20 at the moment)

To any one of these, the new shared slot is of quite high value. It even increases the usefulness of permanent access merchants. Permanent Bank access is now a god send and allows combined with 1 shared slot bank access on ALL your characters, everywhere.

EDIT: speaking of permanent bank access express, look which item just quadrupled in value https://www.gw2tp.com/item/35984-permanent-bank-access-contract

So, just to clarify…you’re saying it is 1 FREEKING SLOT for 1 ITEM? For $8+? I can’t even encapsulate in words how much of a rip off that is Anet. The armor is already expensive, the keys are literally legally-distinct gambling, & you’ve put most of the rewards that should be in the game for goals into the store & at the same time you’ve made posts asking us how to fix RNG. Really? Is the continuing issue of rewards not extremely obvious?

I couldn’t have been happier with the value & quality of GW1 when it came out. Anet was amazing, I literally bought items I didn’t want just to support the company. Now It’s the most expensive MMO I’ve ever played. easily. For me to get access to the same quantity & quality of content & rewards I got in other sub MMOs, I would have to spend thousands of dollars per year in GW2 or play for more hours there are in the day with the sole purpose of maximizing gold generation.

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

And you were wrong. But you still ignore the fact that “the most optimal return” is about focusing on profit. The only “return” is profit. Which is more in line with what the OP said than what you’ve been saying.
As far as what has been happening in the game itself, look at the rewards in HoT. 3 armor sets & 3.5 weapon sets for an entire expansion. That’s absolutely ludicrous. I’ve never seen an expansion so anemic. Now that I think about it, They already have moved features to be “cost efficient”. After the xpac they came out with a record number of Gem Store armor & weapons.

Nope. The OP is misusing the term “cost efficiency” as are you. Nowhere was I dismissing return as being profit. You’re just choosing to assume that I was since I didn’t specifically call it out. Cost efficiency isn’t about cutting features from products. It’s about reducing and minimizing wasted resources.

Based on what I’m seeing, you’d probably consider McDonalds taking fries out of their value meals as being cost efficient.

Then you can’t see very well. Taking fries out of value meals is cost efficient if it makes them more money (or the same amount) at less cost to them. Since most people wouldn’t buy the meals at that point, it would not be cost efficient. But what you are saying is that Anet will increase profits by rearranging a few logistics or increasing the workload or output of their workers. To most of us that’s hilariously unrealistic, especially with the game industry’s history of over-working their employees. It is far more likely that they’ll do what they have been doing: moving assets that could be fun rewards from the playable game to the Gem Store. (a feature of HoT you’ve conveniently ignored) There is no other explanation for having a record number of Gem Store items & a record low number of rewards in an expac. You can stay in your “Anet can do no wrong” world or you can be slightly logical & know that cost efficiency is for Anet’s benefit only unless they pass savings or additional features to us (additional features only being meaningful to Anet if it makes them more money).

It’s also possible that it’s just business talk who’s only purpose is to sate investors. Either way, your ignorance of the armor/weapon features of HoT tells most of us all we need to know about your preconceived notions of Anet. & they don’t match up with reality.

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me?

You specifically didn’t but the OP did so I was using that in the context of this thread and subsequently the post.

And you were wrong. But you still ignore the fact that “the most optimal return” is about focusing on profit. The only “return” is profit. Which is more in line with what the OP said than what you’ve been saying.
As far as what has been happening in the game itself, look at the rewards in HoT. 3 armor sets & 3.5 weapon sets for an entire expansion. That’s absolutely ludicrous. I’ve never seen an expansion so anemic. Now that I think about it, They already have moved features to be “cost efficient”. After the xpac they came out with a record number of Gem Store armor & weapons.

Ayrilana.1396:

DarksunG.9537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company. It only benefits the customer if they pass the savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t going to happen.

No. It’s using your existing resources the best so that you can to get the most optimal return. It’s not about cutting product features.

I can’t see where I wrote cutting product features, can you point that out for me? Also “most optimal return” is a manipulative way of saying “highest profit” which means resources will be focused on just that.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

No, it’s using as few resources as you can to get maximum return. Cost efficiency benefits the company, it would make zero sense for a company to focus on cost efficiency for any other reason. It only benefits the customer if they pass the cost savings to the customer by lowering costs. & that sure as heck isn’t happening.

Looks like they’ve kept to the tradition of only metrosexual/Pantene proV approved hair styles.. & I guess they’re just trolling the charr players. Pfretty funny troll though!

Wonder if this game that centers around medievalish style combat will ever have hair that looks like it’s been in medievalish style combat.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

DarksunG.9537:

Lanaeris.3845:

Same, I have 2001 gems because I was ready when That_Shaman leaked a few things plus the excitement for Black Friday. What a let down. I think if we hold gems, the price to gold goes down too, which just sucks because we get less gold for our gems because more people have gems.

They already have your money now, it’s irrelevant if you want to use your gems or not.

Not exactly.

Gems sitting unspent are gems that are not replaced by buying more gems. A one time purchase is nowhere as good as a steady flow of purchases.

No, I mean for that specific person. It also may not matter based on the player turn over. they may cycle through players fast enough & steadily enough to just sell gems.

Lanaeris.3845:

Same, I have 2001 gems because I was ready when That_Shaman leaked a few things plus the excitement for Black Friday. What a let down. I think if we hold gems, the price to gold goes down too, which just sucks because we get less gold for our gems because more people have gems.

They already have your money now, it’s irrelevant if you want to use your gems or not.

JaddynnStarr.5201:

I haven’t quite been able to put my finger on it yet, but something is certainly different about the game. I dunno if its the atmosphere or community feel, or just the game design in general. All I know is, it isn’t the same, and its not what I like. Things feel pressured, urgent but at the same time it feels like its going to take forever to accomplish things too. Maybe that’s it by design, just seems like everything is long term with nothing to sustain it in the meantime. I dunno, I been trying to work on things slowly, but feel I have no sense of accomplishment. It just feels like “long haul or bust” if you know what I mean.

Agreed. I like most of HoT, but I’m totally sick of Anet’s “Every last thing should be a long-term or very-long-term goal.” The only thing this has done is made Anet extremely lazy when creating rewards & assets(3 armor sets in an expansion? That’s so laughably ludicrous It sounds like a bad joke. I can’t stress enough how paltry that is.), put all the rewards into the gem store & gave the players large lengths of time between rewards. It’s nice to always have long term goals as long as there are multiple short-term goals to make the journey interesting.

Same here. The game is already stingy with non-gem rewards giving us NO reward on map completion is messed up.

Suggestion: stop putting all the skins & rewards in the Gem Store. putting in a small handful of super grindy skins in the expansion doesn’t fool us into thinking you put an expansions-worth of content in the expac.

Especially not when you release tons of Gem items right after the expac.

https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/c1fceLunatic-Guard-2.jpg

This pretty much says it all.. The only accurate excuse for the lack of armor is that they chose not to put skins in the game, because they could just sell them to us. Then wonder why people say the game lacks rewards.

cerberouse.7680:

The apologists are going to come at you in full force, but even they know it seriously doesn’t fly.

Yeah the excuse making for the pathetic # of skins it’s just plain weird. And the “we got TONS of new skins” line is a total fallacy. We got a tiny handful & they sold us a bunch of other one.

& Anet wonders why people don’t find the games rewards rewarding. well if you put all the skins IN THE GAME, it might be rewarding. Grinding 500 new mats is not fun or rewarding.

Brutal Augus.5917:

I’m sure you will get more armor. So long as you are willing to pay for it.

That’s the whole problem. We payed for an expansion. We got a small amount of content/map. an arguably average to slightly above average amount of features & almost no new skins. This doesn’t equal the price. & now you;re saying that we should be ok with paying even more.

Relshdan.6854:

i’m actually pleasantly surprised there’s that many….was honestly expecting less.

9 is a decent amount considering having to deal w/ racial body differences and clipping issues with other armor sets

how on earth is make 1/10th the number of sets in the launch game even slightly normal? I’m gobsmacked at how insultingly low that number is.

Test.8734:

We are very much aware that ArenaNet has added more to the Gem Store over a similar time frame than they have added to HoT, skin-wise. This clearly shows ArenaNet’s priorities.

Yeah. If they are only putting in 3 sets for each armor weight, then start the expac by selling an outfit, then it’s all about priorities. It’s pretty frustrating when they talk about paying for gem store items to fuel the gem store, then when a full priced expac comes out, they add almost nothing.

The one to Rule.2593:

Not sure where you are getting your definitions from but…

“Anemia is a condition in which you don’t have enough healthy red blood cells to carry adequate oxygen to your tissues. "

Which makes no sense with the context of armor skins.

dictonary.com, vocabulary.com, thefreedictionary.com, google definitions, yourdictionary.com, Merriam Webster? You’re in the medical profession & you’ve only ever heard of the pathological definition of Anemic? That’s highly unlikely.

Electro.4173:

I don’t really think the “well, armor sets take a really long time to make” excuse flies at this point.

Prior to the advent of outfits, they were putting out 3 new armor sets every couple of months for the Gem Store.

Going by that rate, we got roughly 6 months worth of armor skin development time for HoT at most (and that’s assuming they were putting the previous armor skins out as fast as they could make them), and considering how long HoT supposedly took to make and how pretty much the entire team was focused on it, that does indeed seem pretty bare bones.

Yeah, that pretty much says it all..

I mean, people keep complaining about rewards & Anet keeps trying to fill the void with new Mats to grind for that 1 back piece or something. meanwhile all the actual rewards are locked behind paywalls & gambling & they wonder why people aren’t happy with rewards…

The one to Rule.2593:

As a medical professional, your misuse of “Anemic” is painful to look at.

adjective
1.
Pathology. suffering from anemia.
2.
lacking power, vigor, vitality, or colorfulness; listless; weak:
an anemic effort; anemic tones.

So yes, the amount of armor sets is weak. the effort was anemic.

Sengel.7801:

Apparently you’ve never created a 3d model.

In the GW2 engine, armor must be hand rigged to each and every body type (so 5-6 per gender per race). an “automated” version would look terrible because of little differences between races (humans have longer legs than norn, sylvari dimensions don’t match up with humans…etc) so each of these needs to be done by hand in order to get the aesthetics right.

thirdly, they’re only required to make max level armor (not any starting armor) which has the assumption by the community to look “epic” so that’s even more modeling and rigging.

Yes the team size has doubled but the work has far more than doubled ( 1 body type per armor * 10 professions * 2 genders or 20 separate models to rig to 10 body types * 5 races * 3 armor classes * 2 genders or 150 separate models to rig , and the complexity of the armors have gone up so that rigging takes way more time)

lastly, true armor sets need to not clip with existing armor pieces, see light vigil pants with seer shoes for an example of this not working, so you have to go in and verify with every race (5) every body type(10) and every piece of armor (way too many to count) and every animation (too many to count) to make sure that it doesn’t clip that bad, and yes the current amount of clipping is “not that bad” compared to just slapping that stuff on.

This is the real reason that we’ve gotten so few new “armor sets” (not outfits as they don’t have to jive well with existing armors) and so many new weapons (since they’re fairly simple to avoid clipping). The inclusion of them in to the bltc as opposed to the open world reflects the sheer amount of man hours (I’d guess somewhere around 2 weeks for 2 artists PER armor set)

I’ve made many, & anyone who is going to make that many sets for diff bodies is going to set it up to have as little work to do as possible. they aren’t going to be pulling verts around 1 at a time. Similar to the FFXIV automated armor system that tapered & rolled armor(though the GW2 system isn’t as good). You can even see where the cage yanks out the skirts on Charr.
In GW1 each of the classes has diff proportions & shapes, they didn’t modify existing sets they had to make entirely new ones from the ground up. Everything else you said applies to GW1 as well. (also they contracted a bunch of models in GW1 & 2) This just sounds like excuses. The one thing I’d concede is that these models require Normals & Spec. But that doesn’t explain why they could launch with 100 & think 9 is normal for an entire expac. But the fact that they sold an outfit on day 1 is enough to explain things.

Iason Evan.3806:

From a post I made on June 25th: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-GW2-Becoming-F2P/first#post5210528

* “My concern now is instead of getting glider skins and weapons and armor sets to earn in the x-pac that we are paying money for, we are gonna be paying for the x-pac and they will release a bunch of stuff on the gem shop instead of it being earn-able in game. With how they have been handling stuff lately, that doesn’t seem altogether an unreasonable educated guess as to how things are going to go down and it’s disappointing.”*

There should be a lot of armor skins, weapon skins and glider skins in the x-pac to earn. Lots. Like as many as were in the base game at launch. That’s not an unreasonable expectation. I don’t pay money to play only then to pay more more to get items. There should be rewards and rewards that don’t incur a gem shop with conversion tax on top of it. Hopefully they will add in lots of armor, glider, and weapon skins that the players can unlock by just playing. The players already paid the money for the content. They shouldn’t be double-dipped. That’s just rude.

Yeah, the fact that they start off the expac selling us armor skins when there are is such a painfully anemic amount in game is pretty harsh.

Yeah, they’re already selling new outfits.. They definitely put a tiny in the expac on purpose.. Pretty brutal.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

But they do so saving Taimi from the evil and corrupted Phlunt allowing you to kill Phlunt in the process

Maybe if Taimi gets taken out too, yeah I could see that being satisfying.

Mo Mo.1947:

Factions is a completely different thing from HoT.

1. Factions was a campaign, meant to be completely standalone.

2. It was built on a simpler engine (read less advanced) and thus took less time and resources to develop new 3D content.

3. In Factions, they only had to develop new armor to fit one race, humans, and all armors only had to be optimized to fit the animations of a specific class that only had a certain set of class-specific animations.

Factions and HoT cannot be compared. The situations and structure of the two are completely different. You might as well be comparing Pac Man to Asteroids.

Anet had half the # of employees when they made Factions, they made it way less time & Factions had to make a new set for every class, not just 3 types modified for body types. (especially when the only real modifications are for Charr & asura & the system may even be automated by the look of the quality on the Charr) So yes, it can be compared. & no, it doesn’t always add up.

So I was looking through the Account Vault & I can only find 3 new sets of armor per weight. this can’t be right..

I know there are some back pieces & some scattered specialization parts, but there can’t really only be this paltry number..

I mean Factions more than doubled the number of armor sets. the game launched with about 100 sets of armor.. I figured they would at least try to raise the number by about %50 for a full expansion.. Factions raised it by more that %100. HoT is a about a %9 increase. that can’t be right?

jgcd.6041:

Narrrz.7532:

Cynova.7406:

emotional and satisfying.

WE GET TO KILL PHLUNT?!

EMPHATICALLY SECONDED

Even better, WE GET TO KILL DE 2.0!!!!

John Smith.4610:

I want to remind everyone that this isn’t a discussion about precursors or specific rewards, that’s a different conversation. This is a discussion of the pro/cons and philosophy behind different forms of RNG implementation.

Hi John,
As far as RNG, I think it’s very important to understand what Ensign.2189 said: “There is nothing in between. Exotics are cheap and easy; precursors are enormously rare. Everything that’s not a precursor is garbage to be recycled. "

This is extremely important. There are no mounts that drop, there are almost no new exciting skins added to the game regularly, there are no neat toys that drop, you almost never, ever get ascended items. This is one of the reasons people view drops in games like WoW ok. They are constantly making new interesting things that drop in the game. GW2 is very very very stingy on putting new drops like this in the game. Even now we’re hearing that HoT will have 2 new armor sets in the new maps. I’m not quite sure why rewards are something GW2 struggles with when things like this happen. That number is a tiny fraction of what would be normal. So we’re left with misdirection & trying to make mats seem interesting by making flashy boxes & ui changes. Grinding for 100s of hrs in Cursed shore to get an extremely rare Charged Lodestone isn’t fun because you need 250 & when you get one you can’t equip, activate, or even see it. It’s a mat. & Mats make horrible drops. There is no rewarding feeling getting 1 of 250 rare mats. You just put it in the back of your mind & slog forward. So regardless of how lucky the metrics show someone is, it doesn’t make it fun & GW2’s drop system needs to understand that.

The 2nd extremely important RNG note is that RNG needs to go away completely from purchased items. The BL Keys are gambling, there are no 2 ways about it. The only reason it’s legal in GW2 is because of a loophole created years ago to make gambling legal, pure & simple. Un-fun RNG is bad in-game but it’s insulting when it includes actual money. Especially, when the reason new skins that would make drops in-game much more fun & interesting are now exclusively hidden behind gambling. This issue is not divorce-able from the poor RNG experience in-game.

essentially: not adding new, fun drops to the game is what makes RNG un-fun. It won’t really matter how good your luck is if the “lucky drop” you got was just another mat you need to grind. The drops need to be fun, new & interesting. & as long as you shift all the fun, interesting drops to the store, the game will continue to feel unrewarding. I understand this will probably be waved off as “well, we can’t sacrifice income” but I honestly think it’s the only actual solution to the RNG experience. Otherwise it will be a vapid chase after ui methods to fool people into thinking mats are fun. If you make it so people get an exo every week to help break streaks, it’s still not going to be more fun because an exo is just more mats. the game needs new skins, toys & fun stuff on a regular basis.

It’s up to the person, the combat & control is way different. It is a bit clunky, but in terms of skills & builds it’s much deeper & varied. Control wise it’s not so great.

If you’re interested in story GW1 is 100000x better than GW2. GW2 has turned into a sjw fanfic with GW lore sprinkled around it. GW2 may present some parts of it’s “story” a little cleaner, but GW1 has far FAR better characters, plot points & the lore is more consistent. If there is anything that has turned my love/love relationship with the GW franchise into a love/hate it’s absolutely the story & characters.

I would be ok if the average cost per BL weapon was $6. like the single weapon skins.. that would still be expensive for a weapon skin that other games just add normally as content, but it would be kind of acceptable.

but $20+? I’d love to hear them try to explain that. Especially in a system that is based on gambling.

I wish they would explain to us why they are not re-doing shield.. the vast majority of players don’t seem to like it. They think that’s cool..really?

Have to admit, the Daedevil animations were pretty bad. Not martial art flavored at all, really bizarre “floating spinning staff” auto attacks that made zero sense..