Guild Wars 2

Norbe.7630:

Dawdler.8521:

Norbe.7630:

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

Say what? PPK is not KDR. Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous and have never done any good for any game whatsoever.

With normal PPK your 3 servers in that pic would rank exactly the same. In fact it would be even worse, since #3 would be even further behind.

That said, it would be hilarious to exploit a KDR system – just dont play the game and automaticly win every matchup. Nightcap everything during the night, then during the day dont engage anything your zerg cant kill for certain. Always run a 50 man monoblob and only targets groups of less than 5 people, run away from the rest. It doesnt matter if you only kill 1000 people during the day, as long as no one of yours die. Even if the nightcap wasnt effective and you currently only have 200,000 vs 300,000/350,000, dont fret – your 20:1 KDR ensure victory regardless of them having a million PPT points.

i guess you got confused on algebra…
and i didnt say PPK is KDR i said we can introduce the “redundant factor” in the game
i can interpret KDR for you which is coined by Herbert Spencer, Survival of the Fittest, only the strong survives
“Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

if that’s the strategy of your server then i have no right to question it, and again Survival of the fittest both physically and mentally to win a war

and the 20 kdr, is that from tier 8 server?
im sure you don’t want that 5 people killing your 50 man blob for a 10 kdr
Hint: (5 diamonds happily roaming/scouting for enemy zerg,while singing diamonds by rihanna on TS ,then luring them to their own zerg for an ambush)
cuz i dont want to show again some algebra if people doesn’t understand it at all

if you have anymore questions regarding the concept feel free to ask to make it better,

Oh I understand basic math alright, I just have no idea how you turn PPK into something you call the “redundant factor”, which you then show to be KDR multiplication.

If you want to get into the technical details on why any kind of multiplication with KDR sucks, then its the exact same reason runaway PPT scores for nightcapping sucks. What’s +1 for one server is -1 for another which exaggerate differences of points. So instead of servers going from 100,000/100,000 points to say 125,000/120,000 points (lets assume perfectly equal PPT and +1 points per kill) then your “redundant factor” score would be 156,250/80,000.

Now tell me how the hell 156K/80K is more fair than 125K/120K just because one side has 25% more deaths on a battlefield where asymmetric warfare and being outmanned is the norm rather than something strange?

zhonnika.1784:

Auto-upgrades are crap even up here in T1. Let’s see, we have massive no-lifer numbers + keeps being defensible to the point where you may as well not even try + silly, unneeded crap like shield generators (and I’m talking 3-4 at each gate, in every structure) and why even bother? It’s a one-sided experience, for the most part. I don’t even want to know what it’s like in the lower tiers, but it can’t be any better. Letting us delay them with yaks is a step in the right direction. I can kill yaks, because that blob can’t be everywhere all the time :>

True, but sometimes you really wonder how narrowminded a zerg can get when it comes to trying to cap a keep.

Yesterday we had a situation where around 30 people tried to get into hills. We where maybe 6-8 defending. Since they had a real zerg (ie frontline/backline) we couldnt even approach the walls, take one step and loose 80% of your HP in 1 second and trying to get their guardians and warriors off the rams was like trying to move a skyscraper with your hands. They took up spot on north inner and started bashing away… for like forever. We built a cata inside of course, delayed them alot. Not to mention repair the gate.

But guess what? The south inner gate was totally undefended and already half broken, lol.

They could have sent 10 peeps there with a single ram (we didnt even have a scout on south inner).

But nooooooo… Lets just monoblob and stare at this gate for 20 minutes instead of crushing the enemy between a small group and a slightly smaller monoblob.

Then of course they failed on Lords because well, ACing the spot they tried to portal bomb ftw, lol. Seriously, who try to portalbomb in the center of the lord room? They could have just come from the side and rolled us up!

In PvE, RS is totally superior in every single way. There’s not even any contest, its the epitome of P2W for the Necro. Buy HoT and own everything.

In WvW however, I find myself running ye olde regular Necro. In my experience the Reaper is inflexible when roaming and get owned hard when facing most ranged classes, especially when its a couple of them (although it is a T3 camp capping facetank machine). The regular DS AA can hurt people real bad at range, so it doesnt matter if you are CCed or they are trying to kite you. RS while zerg frontlining is a nice change of pace, but ultimately a normal ranged wellbomber beats it IMO (even a frontline wellbomber). You become incredibly reliant on the RS to manouver in the frontlines, which cripple your range. A zerg Necro is simply best when not relying on DS so much, its mostly the staff that put the hurt down.

Norbe.7630:

on the image below is an approx 20,000 kills and the so called ratio(killdeathratio)
the red team total score is 176,688 with a ratio of 1.01
blue team score is 148,125 with a ratio of 1.24
and green team is 129,715 with a ratio of 0.66
lets introduce the redundant factor in this game, the ratio
176,688*1.01=178,kitten new score for red
148,125*1.24=183,675 new score for blue
129,715*0.66=85,612 new score for green
so even the score on PPT of red is higher than blue the blue wins due to its higher multiplier caused by KDR, that means that even when a server has a wider coverage on the map in any given time, any server has a chance to beat them on points due to KDR

Say what? PPK is not KDR. Involving KDR in a war is ridiculous and have never done any good for any game whatsoever.

With normal PPK your 3 servers in that pic would rank exactly the same. In fact it would be even worse, since #3 would be even further behind.

That said, it would be hilarious to exploit a KDR system – just dont play the game and automaticly win every matchup. Nightcap everything during the night, then during the day dont engage anything your zerg cant kill for certain. Always run a 50 man monoblob and only targets groups of less than 5 people, run away from the rest. It doesnt matter if you only kill 1000 people during the day, as long as no one of yours die. Even if the nightcap wasnt effective and you currently only have 200,000 vs 300,000/350,000, dont fret – your 20:1 KDR ensure victory regardless of them having a million PPT points.

When you look at the skills, what they do and their cooldowns (not to mention the cost)… you realize its a joke. A complete and utter farce. Someone over at Anet is obviously having a laugh over this. Its as if they set out to not just kill WvW, but to humiliate and torture it first.

Norbe.7630:

Entenkommando.5208:

Norbe.7630:

sorry for the double post and this thread is tldr but anyway heres my suggestion
why not add the points per kill system like
a normal rank killed = 10point
bronze= 50 point
silver= 100 point
gold=300 point
platinum=500 point
mithril=1000 point
and last diamonds = 5000 points

Are these points for the killing players’ rank or for the killed players’ rank?

Anyways it simply won’t work with brainless eotm farmers thinking they are super diamond pros.

killed players rank
eg: badlands Silver general= 100 pts
og platinum assaulter= 500pts and so on
and might suggest this only applys on BL’s and EB since eotm is full of uplevels atm

No offense, but its a silly idea. The point of WvW is that everyone is a soldier in a big war. Targetting specific players for points is stupid beyond belief.

Besides, all you have to do is find a diamond on the other server, pay him some gold and then have him ganked all day. And thats not even counting griefers. Hell I would personally rush and die for hours just to make a point of how kittening bad that system would be.

apharma.3741:

The best part is spending half an hour using a cata on these walls in the hope they break and finding they won’t.

And then find out that there isnt really a wall there, you could have walked through half an hour ago?

They arent going to do anything and bumping is against forum rules I’m afraid.

The only thing they need to do is drop +5 from an extremely harsh level 37. It should be 15 for camps, around 25 for towers and finally 37 for keeps. kitten the schematics, the only thing worth it is passives.

sephiroth.4217:

They also said they would customize the old map before bringing it back…. Now look at the new map.

New Alpine:
- Central event where you kill Quaggans and collect their babies. When done, all walls on the border is destroyed. Happen once every 2h and event lasts 2h.
- Extended size by 6x, the citadel is now the SW spawn tower (3 layers of snow caverns out from spawn to citadel).
- To improve defense, all guards are now champions.
- All tower lords are raid bosses.
- Keeps are protected by 3 elder dragons each that require legendary armour and agony resistance to defeat.
- Dolyaks are now dragon champions.
- T3 objectives give double PPT
- Barricades have been strenghtened to T3 walls
- Sentries changed to Risen commanders that can summon up to 20 champion Risen Giants (note: to keep trading post balance, they do not drop giant eyes).

The worst problem with WvW today isnt even that the new border is kittenty design, its that it put players on two sides of the fence and make them annoy each other to no end.

People on EB think they are playing the “real” WvW with 100 man queues on reset, fights over PPT and they get all the gir… I mean commanders. To them, anyone on a border is an idiot that play for PPT or PvD, so they dont go there.

People on borders are trying to play WvW, but since there are few enemies and more often than not even fewer friendlies, they are forced to cap things to have somewhat fun. What fights that happen between 20 vs 20 is great, but loose or win, you lost anyway. If you loose, half your force go somewhere else to AFK queue EB making it impossible to have another fight. If you win, you wont see the enemy again. To border peeps, EB peeps are kittenes that dont help the server trying to play WvW across all maps.

Remember the good old days when borders could ask for help on EB and players actually played like a friendly community, a server?

No more.

Its not like I dont understand why this is happening (psychology 101), its just sad to see. Everyone get tired of playing like this.

The problem is what kind of points you get when objectives are not fought over.

The idea as is would completely steamroll points for night and morning cappers, because those often see the longest held objectives. It would work decently if we assumed that EB was the only map that existed, where the difference in score may be just holding 1 or 2 extra towers over what the enemy holds. If these was encouraged to be defended in order to gather more points from them, well that’s just swell. But in reality, we got 3 other maps with near zero population 90% of the time that would just sit there and tick your defense “encouraging” points while not having any defense whatsoever.

Brazzi.2045:

and if you’re at it fix them dessert dolly’s !

I would prefer them to fix the desert dollys. Dessert dollys is something completely different and somewhat yummier.

Zelanard.5806:

lol… As far as I know, Anet have done nothing but keeping their promises… o.O

Depends on how you mean keeping promises?

Pre-HoT:
“Guilds are the lifeblood of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, and it’s our desire that they become a greater part of World vs. World.”

Post-HoT:
“kitten all you small guilds, pay us 5000 gold and spend 3 months upgrading to have meaningfull WvW claiming.”

I wonder if this is a good time to start kitten yourself out for gold to higher ranked players?

I mean we all knew that was coming at some point.

I’d say go rampager if you want basic PvE stuff. Personally I use rabid+celestial for WvW and PvE, but I dont care for min-maxing raids anyway (I dont even do dungeons).

Not only does the world population only represent WvW activity, they changed the caps a while ago so that servers changed from full to high over night (and personally I suspect they removed low status and made medium lowest).

Since WvW has been bleeding players since HoT due to a kittenty border, unbalanced professions, a plethora of introduced bugs and Anet saying kitten you to WvW guilds by gating already unlocked content since years behind a 7000+ gold paywall, its really not all that surprising.

volpenvieh.3201:

I honestly don’t think that “night capping” needs to be fixed.

Fixing it doesnt mean stopping people playing or going after players, just balancing the score curves from PPT.

Or at least thats what I think, I know many people have more radical ideas.

Stomping points still happen I believe?

Dolyaks is a huuuuuuuuuuuuge hidden factor as well (the north camp on borders is a score factory).

Ben K.6238:

Once you’ve actually played it for a bit, you figure the routes out and it’s quicker to traverse.

As for trebbing one objective from another, stopping that was evidently one of the goals of the redesign. There were just too many places where you could break down a wall without even having to defend your siege.

Quicker than not knowing any path sure but its still freaking huge with objectives too far away from each other (and yes, I know every single path on desert).

Safe trebbing – which took a huge amount of time and resources compared to dumping 5 catas on a wall btw – was the only true siege warfare GW2 had. It allowed a very small party to put pressure on a keep over an extended period of time. It was far from effective for a quick cap, but that wasnt the point. It was like condi compared to power. You need both for a well rounded attack. If stopping it was one of the goals of the redesign… Then kitten if Anet ever plays WvW. But I suppose we already knew that.

Jaimai.5428:

Well i kind of agree with the things you are saying. That it´s bether to be good at your class then let the gear “do the job for you”. But if i get this right, the only thing you get for completing PvE content are cosmetic kind of stuff? Is that not kind of boring? :S

No, its not boring, because there is no such thing as “PvE endgame”. There is lots of content and stuff to do sure, special skins to acquire and achievements to unlock. But the game doesnt end with PvE. Its only the beginning. The real “endgame” in GW2 is years and years worth of WvW and sPvP. PvE is a distraction on the side.

Rudy.6184:

(rev can cast 5 sec reveal while using #3 of hammer it has 1200 range and engi has 900 radius on reveal).

Detection pulse is 600 radius btw.

Chamber of secrets is often the one missed. Its on its own map. Look it up on the wiki.

Ulion.5476:

Its about the same size as the other map

“about the same” would be ignoring the fact its quite a fair bit bigger.

In particular I find it hilarious that the distance from the SW tower on desert to the first sentry west of it is about the same as the distance from the SW tower on alpine to bay outer walls.

Sinbold.8723:

How about this: “Dear Anet: Please stop the Mordrem from taking the Pact camps in Auric Basin during non-prime time play. Its not fair that I put so much time into defending these camps only to lose them when I go to bed.”

And that’s exactly what Anet do. They shut down instances. If you want a perfect comparison, shutting down all borders during the low population times would be perfectly acceptable as well. Different way, same result.

Oh, and here’s one I dug up from 1942: “Dear Geneva Convention: Please stop the RAF from bombing us at night. We’re tired and trying to rest so we can fight during the day, and all this non-prime time bombing is demotivating, demoralising and downright broken. Sincerely, The Luftwaffe.”

What a silly comparison, because fortunetly for us WW2 wasnt based on PPT. If it was they would have won on holding France.

Yuffi.2430:

Just missed your last post. If you’ll stop talking about “night capping” which implies you are complaining about players taking stuff when you’re asleep then we can agree that the current scoring system is not ideal.

Hence why I have always referred to the solution as low population scaling, not nightcap scaling. Low population scaling can happen any time. At 8 in the morning, at 16 in afternoon, hell in the middle of prime time. Doesnt change the fact that nightcapping is a thing that’s at the very extreme of PPT scoring system issues (and yes, servers have dedicated nightcrews for the express purpose of exploiting this. They arent there to just “play”).

I very much doubt that PPK will cover this issue. In relation to the idea though, reverse PPK scaling would be pretty neat (ie when there is low population, PPK give more points as opposed to during high population).

Yuffi.2430:

So your real complaint is that no-one from your server is on to take it back.
The fact that people insist this must be a game wide problem and demand that it needs fixing is laughable.

Hahaha what? No. That’s not my complaint. You clearly dont understand me either.

The fact that noone can recap is not an issue. If no one is playing, then no one is playing. That’s neither the fault of Anet or the players, especially not in the EU where we have a common nighttime.

The complaint is that once a keep is taken and few if any is online, its ticking as high as if all maps are queued. I think that is a completely kitten backwards way of scoring. When the possibility of a keep being recapped is higher (ie during high population times), it should be worth more. When the possibility is next to zero (ie during low population times), the keeps should be worth less. Its a matter of threat. I want to flatten the wild point curves based on population, because the very reason they are wild is because score avalanche during low population times, when there is no activity.

Also please look at this graph and tell me with a straight face that there is no such thing as night capping. I’ll give you a hint – the first half of each day block is 00:00 to 12:00.

Yuffi.2430:

Scaling PPT to population is not a good idea. There are fewer players at non prime times so rather than encouraging more people into WvW let’s tell them they are less important and give them less reason to play….

Less important? Night cappers? LOL!!!

Low population capping is currently overvalued to the max – autoupgrades made it worse than ever. Nightcappers have gotten the better deal for 3 years in terms of how important they are to PPT and how easy they can cap things defended by no one. Its high poulation peeps that we are telling are less important every day.

Scaling PPT by population no matter the time of day would finally make it fair.

GG seeing ticks of 1400. There would literally be no way to play the game other than to nightcap. After 2 nights, servers with a nightcrew will have won the matchup because its utterly impossible to catch up.

Sorry but this idea is hilarious.

They are being built in the same location as where they are building their tanks and helicopters.

I cant remember anything in the lore stating it was the Vigil that started building them though? Just that the original ones where Charr built (which makes sense, seeing as the tanks and helicopters are clearly Charr as well). If the Vigil had these tools, they should have been seen in areas before Orr. But they arent, they are only seen when all three orders commit to the Pact and are backed up by the races… Which mean it must have been one of the races that gave the Pact access to their weaponry. Ie the Charr with the help of the Asura. Humans are way to dumb to build something like that and the Norn would just give you a pat on the back and say go kill that dragon, here, have a beer for the road. Talking cabbages dont count.

Onlinefreak.3421:

Tell me that you can’t run straight while kittening your head to one side and match your speed with your head facing forward. It makes no difference.

Oh you can match the speed just fine.

And then you’ll run straight into a kittening wall because you’re not looking where you are running.

GW2 combat movement is almost perfect in every aspect and by far the best in the MMO genre in my experience (much thanks to excellent animations that give it real weight and connection to the ground). I dont think I have ever seen anyone complain about the strafing speeds in all these years. Well except this thread obviously.

zhonnika.1784:

To keep this on topic, I say HELL NO to manual upgrades in any form. Too much abuse, too many people who don’t understand upgrade order, too many ways that it can and has gone wrong. Auto upgrades are fine with the change. I do not wish to go back to the days of someone starting fortify before anything else because they clicked wrong or just wanted to keep you from having anything else. Sorry, no.

Manual upgrades on the current system would obviously just be starting each tier by telling the lord to start upgrading it. I fail to see how that can be abused.

Best way to do it however would be a falling tree layout, with some choices in each tier of upgrade. Subtle enough not to be end of the world if the “wrong” one is chosen, but enough to make the keep feel a little designed by players.

God kitten that’s ugly.

ProtoGunner.4953:

You won’t usually look from this perspective when you play, so it shouldn’t matter.

Unless that’s how you always play your games.

Just saying.

MithranArkanere.8957:

A flat texture is a cheap way to save polygons. People usually don’t look under the skirt, so that doesn’t need to get rendered, and that allows you to add other details to the model, like earring and fluttering stripes.

It looks really ugly, though. So I don’t think it’s worth it. It’s better to save in other places.

GW2, save polygons on stuff that cant normally be seen with the current gear set?

My googly eyed Asura disagree.

X T D.6458:

I think the only way to deal with nightcapping is to change the scoring system completely.

No need at all.

Just scale all PPT based on total population on a 30m or 1h update basis. Its simple and fair. It doesnt take into account any timezones, if its in prime time or middle of the night, if its a T1 or T9 server or how the server balance is. Only the idea that population of WvW at this point in time is currently low so all PPT is worth 33% (or whatever value step you want to set compared to medium and high).

Since server PPT gains remain the same relative to each other, it doesnt diminish the efforts of someone during low poulation times compared to someone during high poulation times. In fact, its now equal and fair as opposed to the current score that value nightcapping and holding keeps against no one waaaaaaay to high compared to primetime clusterkittens.

Wolfeng.3784:

I don’t care about looking about panties, she could be wearing a shorts under, anything is better than the void.

Its GW2. Obviously she should be wearing another skirt under.

But yes, I agree its unfair censoring. GW2 already has armour that shows about 3cm of a buttcrack so its basicly an AO game right there.

misterdevious.6482:

There’s an awful lot that already needs to be done and not nearly enough people to do it… why does anyone still think we need to assign a “manual upgrade button pushing job” on top of all this?

Because people want options and they want control. Not everyone do, sure – many like being mindless zerglings. But this is the very definition of depth in a game. Why do you think Starcraft 2 didnt go the route of automatic building and unit generation? Surely people want to focus on fighting!

Dimes.6024:

Asura masterrace!

Me thinks the Asuran masterrace enjoy shooting things just a wee bit too much.

Zachary Stiers.1879:

• Rally order is closest-first. Combined with the rally limit of one this means that only the nearest downed player will rally off an enemy death.
• Resurrecting the dead cannot be started in combat, but entering combat while already resurrecting someone will not force you to stop.

So out of curiousity, are the these going to be global changes or WvW specific?

I mean come on. At least share the WvW love with PvE.

I’d be more concerned about the glowing green Bigfoot thats photobombing the UFO pics.

Quick, run and buy HoT so you can compete! And give extra copies to your friends and tell them to all run revenants!

The funny thing is that a long time ago, when a single skill made it possible to stack a ton of a single boon – just some lousy swiftness btw – Anet hit it so hard with the nerf hammer that curtain became useless to achieve even modest swiftness on the Mesmer himself and we still use Guardian symbols to stack speed instead (what a ridiculous concept!).

Oh how the standards Anet set down has changed.

Entenkommando.5208:

misterman.1530:

Lord Kuru.3685:

misterman.1530:

So…wait…cata cost was a main complaint on this forum? Really? I think if we rank the complaints, it wouldn’t even hit the top 20 let alone be one of the top 5 that are being addressed. Sigh.

Cat cost change indicates they’re sticking with the desert BL. Even at the cost of unbalancing EB gameplay. It’s a good sign they’re not listening at all.

My thoughts exactly. I can’t remember EVER seeing a post saying “Wow..cata costs are too high and we have to run back and forth a whole bunch of times to get supply.” I do, however, see a bunch of posts saying the new BLs are crap.

Many people raised concerns with the guild cata nerf so I do appreciate this change.

Not to mention it wasnt just the guild catas, with an extra tier of fortification and much more defensible doors on keeps, it means that there is a heavy shift toward ranged siege to take stuff. Ie catas. Them being expensive slows down the pace of gameplay across the board. And its already painfully slow when no one want to play on the borders.

Any kind of gathering event would favor the zerg and tbh, be just plain annoying.

Talking to an NPC would most definetly enough.

The group effort is after the ordering of the upgrade, getting the actual dollys safely into the keep. That’s your “event” and everyone can participate (and enemies can try to interrupt it, so literally everyone).

Gliders is out of the question as it would require redesigning the map.

Mushrooms on the other hand would be great to see IMO. But it need to be accessable by everyone, not just HoT peeps.

Daddar.5971:

For one, it would mean that there would be 24/7 coverage in all BL’s because Euro server players would be mixed in with NA. No more ‘nightcapping’ woes.

What? That’s even more ridiculous!

No more nightcapping woes… No more playability either because US players would lag like crazy (if the servers are in the EU) or EU players would lag like crazy (if the servers are in the US).

This is the very reason ESO completely bombed with its WvW, they forced EU players to play on US servers which meant network lag across the board.

PierPiero.9142:

In my opinion it is not a problem of the weapon per se …. hammer is really strong and usefull. I don’ play hammer not becouse it is not strong … it is the strongest weapon in my opinion … but becouse i miss pistol pistol gameplay or rifle gameplay even if i know hammer is superior in pvp .

Heh, I had the pleasure of dueling a really good hammer scrapper with my pistol/pistol scrapper a while ago (I may not be the best duelist, but I know a good player on any class when I see one). Man was that fight intense and it lasted for several minutes. Unfortunetly I have barely played with the hammer so my inability to predict cooldowns and weapon effects pretty much doomed me in the end lol. My choice is still pistol/pistol though. Love my revolvers.

Mitz.5741:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Objectives upgrades will no longer be automatic based on time. They will upgrade based on dolyaks that reach them. Smaller groups can now prevent an objective from upgrading by preventing dolyaks from reaching that objective.

Borders will still upgrade to T3 cuz of the enemy nightcappers

Progress per dolly (or PPD, heh) is not a cure for nightcappers. Its to make it so that you can properly siege an objective with a few people and either stop it from upgrading (precursor to an assault no doubt) or draw the enemy out.

Nightcapping is a whole other matter, that’s all about exponentially increasing PPT scores vs no one at all. The fact that a border is T3 in the morning is little concern, you can always recap it. Trying to make up points by ticking 650 to 0 or so is harder, if not impossible… unless your server nightcap them.

Unfortunetly, I dont think PPK will reduce the importance of nightcapping either. If anything, it will make the wild score curves even wilder. Without a reduction to max PPT during low population times its irrelevant.

Xyonon.3987:

@Dawdler
well necro is a completly different story, mine has 45k with DS and is still the “reaper zerker”. But celecstial is a huge waste once he gets decent equip. Why not start with the real deal right away? :S

“huge waste” is a relative term unless you are an min-maxer (and if he’s asking, he’s not and have plenty of time to get every single stat combo on his trinkets). Zerker+celestial compared to zerker+zerker loose about 7% crit chance, 10% critdmg and 400 power (some of it made up by added condi dmg, you get nearly double damage on bleeds for example).

Unless you have an absolutely urgent and critical need to get a mob down in 27 seconds instead of 30 seconds, it matter little. One single mistake in a very long and complicated max dps rotation trying to juggle 3 kits or whatever it is will probably make up that difference, lol.

Besides, the trinkets are always usable on other classes and a wide variety of builds. Zerkers are pretty much only for power builds, unless you change your armor/weapons around (personally I prefer swapping the trinkets and keeping various base gear layouts).

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

joneirikb.7506:

“We want to bring back the Alpine map later, perhaps for a tournament/season, or for a set rotation. We haven’t quite decided yet on how to solve it.”

The solution seems pretty easy to me. Currently we have 3 borderlands with identical maps. Why do the maps have to be identical ?

What’s wrong with giving red the desert map, blue the alpine map with the quaggan lake, green the other alpine map ?

At least until they produce a third borderlands map. Then they can ditch one of the alpine maps and have each borderland on a different map.

Same reason why most esports maps are complete mirrors – its supposed to be fair no matter which side you play.

That said, it would be perfectly fair to give alpine to the highest ranking server in a matchup IMO. If the other 2 servers prefer to be there as well, its bound to give lots of fights.