As an exotic armor crafter who made lots of gold, I really wish I could craft Ascended gear and sell it to those who don’t want to craft.
I kind of enjoy leveling two crafting professions with each character I develop, only the crazy high cost of materials now hinders that. I just which EACH level 450 character could do the daily time gated crafting so that I could get some payoff besides experience for doing this.
It may only kill the fun, if you define your WHOLE endgame experience by acquiring items that you dont really need to play the game. If you disregard ALL other content available at end game as not fun, maybe its time for you to play another game.
The end game content that anyone chooses to do has some level of fun for the individual, but after you do it 10, 100, 1000 times how fun can it be? Attaining a Legendary without playing Gold Wars in the TP sucks the fun out of the game and diminishing returns makes it even worse.
Thanks for proving my point. All the OP did was to complain about potential profits on the TP. If people want better reward structures, they should make suggestions towards it, not complain about something that cant be seen as a reward in the first place.
This thread is about the TP killing the fun of the game. Of course smart TP players are rewarded for their efforts, they get tons of gold and therefore any shiny they want because it’s almost all available in the TP. Only Vision Crystals force players to play the actual game to get their Ascended gear. The grind in this game is so excessive because of nerfing and RNG and THAT is what is spoiling the fun.
The lack of suggestions on how to fix this does not prove there is not a problem here. TP barons certainly don’t think there is a problem with all that gold in their pockets, and maybe that is how they have fun, but this is supposed to be Guild Wars, not Gold Wars. That is the point and clearly others agree.
The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary.
At no point the OP suggested anything towards a better rewards structure, just like many topics before, its just some people venting about potential profit margins on the TP, which arent rewards in itself because they arent given out by Anet.
If you would like to overhaul reward structures, fair enough, I am all for it. But it wont happen in a topic named “TP killing real mmo fun devs”.
Leave the Trading Post out of a discussion about rewards because there are none generated on the tp.
I’ve done almost everything that is doable from pve perspective and whats left is getting some few nice shinies that I want, normally I would just relive the old content play the game, play it with alts and what not to work towards those shinies but why would I if I can get much more progress by doing nothing so instead of playing the game like some other people do I just log in for 15-20 minutes a day to place orders go off and reap much better profits than normal players THAT ARE PLAYING THE ACTUAL GAME
The OP said directly he has little incentive to play the ‘adventure’ part of the game because he can get his shinies in much less time by playing the TP instead. In other words if actually playing the game rewarded him better he wouldn’t feel like he is wasting his time adventuring. So YES, this is about the reward system being pathetic and this game becoming Gold Wars. Gold is a reward and it’s what you get from TP flipping. It trumps every other reward in the game.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.
I play probably 20-30 hours a week which I would guess is more towards the high end of casual, but I don’t do a lot of hard code grinding. I am sure I accomplish a lot less in those hours because I can be entertained by things like playing with dyes and armors for long periods. I have spent at least my fair share on bank slots, character slots, kites and a few other things, but never have I bought gold because that just seems wrong to me as I am sure it does to most others.
I don’t think it’s fair to equate casual players to those who buy gold to get the high end gear. Just because we aren’t grinders doesn’t mean we want to take short cuts. I also bet a large portion of GW2 players are casual in that they have jobs and families and the fact that it’s free to play lets people relax on how much time they spend on the game. With a free to play model Anet needs to attract lots of people and be as appealing as possible to everyone, so forcing gem for gold or crazy grind to get the good stuff should not be in their plan.
I also see no evidence they are working on a paid expansion because they are probably making plenty of money off of casual players with the current model. The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary. The Gift of Mastery is a perfect example of this in that you MUST do some piece of everything to get it. I am really hoping they choose this type of approach for a precursor hunt of some kind, but they shouldn’t go to overboard with crazy hard content in your path either.
Grinding out 2K gold worth of materials over 1000+ hours of game play is just to much for one weapon. No one is saying the TP is a bad thing, it’s just all the loot nerfing and RNG that makes gold acquisition the undesirable direction this game has gone in. The reward tracks in PvP is a great step accept for the fact I have such a low tolerance of PvP.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
I don’t think that was their reason. Take bank slots and stack boosters. Who doesn’t want either of them? Any two people can then buy half of what they need and gift the rest to another therefore lowering the cost by 50%. No way they are turning down all that revenue.
Exotic gear is easy enough, it’s the Ascended gear and rare Exotic skins that cost so much. Casual gamers just cannot realistically get a Legendary unless they play the TP game which is the point of this thread.
Sorry, for me collecting bling is fun, not climbing the achievement ranks. I don’t consider getting to level 80 learning a class, more like becoming familiar with it to some extent. My pvp skills are pretty bad, and I am only playing now because of the new reward tracks. I can only stand pvp for a little while before I get disgusted with getting beat so bad. I got to level 29 in fractals, but all I got there was a pile of Ascended rings which you cannot sell or salvage. If they would give us some kind of trader to exchange gains from one area to another that could help with wealth attainment. My piles of WvW badges are for the most part useless for attaining shinies.
Crafting takes the time and effort to level crafting to be able to craft the materials you are selling to those who don’t like crafting or don’t want to take the time. I always felt like in some way I was providing a service and making decent gold for my time. Yes, however it is a form of making money off of the TP as there is no way I was going to grind out all that material farming.
Gambling on the TP by opening bags or tossing your purchases in the Mystic Toilet is another form of making money off of the TP. Speculation is a form of gambing I suppose, but it takes serious skill to make money at it.
The point the OP is trying to make, and I agree with, is that the TP is really at the center of the ‘end game’ for GW2. Once you have developed a character for each profession (leveled, geared, learned), what more is there to do but give them all nice shinies? This is just to much grind in GW2 to do so because of the RNG and the nerfing Anet has put in to stop the bots I guess.
I stat I would like to see is what percentage of people running around with a Legendary actually ‘earned’ it without flipping items in the TP. The two and a half I have where not from drops (the best drop I have gotten since beta was an ascended armor chest), but from crafting exotic armor for profit before ascended armor ruined that market.
I feel pretty safe stating that 0% of Legendary weapons were created using absolutely no interaction with the trading post.
That’s not what I am asking. Clearly you will buy some of your ingredients, and sell your unneeded drops, but I am talking about flipping for profit. Buying things you don’t need just for speculation. When I was crafting, I was making on average 50g a day. Now, I have less than 20g in my wallet. Ascended bankrupted me in many ways.
I stat I would like to see is what percentage of people running around with a Legendary actually ‘earned’ it without flipping items in the TP. The two and a half I have where not from drops (the best drop I have gotten since beta was an ascended armor chest), but from crafting exotic armor for profit before ascended armor ruined that market.
I think that RNG killed the real MMO fun here, and the TP lets a select few work around that. Everyone wants shinies, with Legendaries being the ultimate shinies. What ruins the ‘fun’ in getting one is the RIDICULOUS RNG that was put in our way.
ONLY skill in the TP lets you EARN a legendary, and that is probably what brings the ire of everyone against the TP barrons. Take Charged Lodestones for example to craft one piece of a Legendary. The only way to get them is to spend countless hours killing sparks. There is no skill or fun there, just mind numbing grind. This pretty much forces everyone to buy them from the lucky and to come up with the 300 gold you need, the ‘best’ way is playing the TP. (Same argument applies to precursors but I think everyone agrees they where a monumental failure.)
Gold IS the most important thing in this game BECAUSE of RNG. That makes the TP the most important SKILL in the game, hence all the threads against it.
It’s not like I am buying a legendary with gems, just some dye. If they sold really cool armor skins, does the fact that everyone has one make them less valuable?
TP flippers make tons of gold and can buy any dye they want, do they really deserve it?
If I am supporting the game by buying some dye shouldn’t I get something better than a lump of coal?
Why can’t they just sell us a dye flat out that is account bound? Why the RNG? Must they bait us into giving them money? It just turns most people off of the gem store I would think.
When they sold us kites you got to pick what color you wanted. Why not a chance for a kite, but you may get a kitten instead.
Why can’t they add a dye ‘browser’ in the wardrobe tab that let’s you see what every available dye looks like and then have a purchase option that lets you add that dye to your account without being able to sell it? Maybe it’s only exclusive new dyes, but they really need to get rid of this RNG crap when I am giving them money. The preview is really important to me because how an armor displays a dye is really very variable.
If your gathering all your materials, then your not really ‘profiting’ right? Your just converting self harvested raw materials into T7 dowels to get the max reward from all that farming right?
If you where to pay others to farm with buy orders on the raw materials, then spend your daily craft allotment on refining them into dowels, then you are making some profit as well as selling your daily craft time.
You can only do that once a day, and most people crafting ascended gear will craft everything themselves as obviously it’s much cheaper. You are only selling to rich players who don’t want to bother with all the time gated crafting so volume is really low. This lets you get undercut very easily and you need to be patient as well as potentially lose your listing fee if you need to undercut someone else.
I am pretty sure my monthly progress got messed up, but I know my dailies are bugged somehow. The second night after the feature pack, I started with 2 or 3 dailies already marked complete and I just did two or three more to get my daily.
Now, I didn’t play all day yesterday or last night, and when I log in today I see eight dailies already marked completed.
Anyone else seeing this? Do I need to submit a ticket?
They over-corrected with the silk adjustment they made so I think that it should go back to 50 for refining silk. They could gift all owners of ascended armor with extra silk if they really feared upsetting people, but I for one would be glad just to not have to come up with 300 silk EVERY day to do my daily crafting.
The ops point is that Dragonite is a ‘Teamwork’ reward and cannot be ‘farmed’ without the help of others. I am guessing this is on purpose to force group participation.
Rather than some system of minimum undercut wouldn’t a system that supports a bid/offer range solve the problem, and make trading a lot more interesting? If every market order came with a min and max price that adjusted to all future offers, then your 5% investment would be protected as a seller who got there first, and as a buyer you would be spared continuously re-posting your offers.
This way you could stake your claim on any range from 0%-n% and anyone who attempts to undercut you has the same choice and doesn’t get in front for ‘free’ with a 1c undercut.
Making it “more interesting” is not a solution. Nor is there any reason to “protect” someone’s listing just because they’re the current lowest listing. If you’re being undercut regularly, that’s the market’s way of saying “cough up a lower price if you want to sell, this price aint working for you or others.” Nor does it address the other factors of a market.
Making it more interesting was only a side benefit because there is a reason to protect your ‘claim’ as the first person to offer an item for sale at a certain price.
If someone is going to cut in front of me they need to ‘prove’ they are willing to make the sale at a value significantly less than my price, not just a minimal 1c non difference. The system should be FIFO within a given range, and my suggestion lets the seller set that range rather than the system having to enforce a range we cannot agree on.
There is not a major thread complaining about being outbid by 1c on buy orders because it is free to relist, it’s just a hassle. I think the only reason a sell order costs 5% is to prevent using the TP as storage, but if that where not there then it would only be a major hassle to have to keep re-listing items for sale every time the pseudo bot traders strike you with a 1c undercut. In lower volume markets, getting as many if not all sales is important so these sharks strike within minutes of any listing. They are not really offering buyers significantly lower prices, just trumping your offer with a meaningless undercut. If they now have to place a range lower than mine, that 5% fee will penalize them if they are not really willing to sell significantly lower.
(edited by Elric Of Melnibone.4781)
Rather than some system of minimum undercut wouldn’t a system that supports a bid/offer range solve the problem, and make trading a lot more interesting? If every market order came with a min and max price that adjusted to all future offers, then your 5% investment would be protected as a seller who got there first, and as a buyer you would be spared continuously re-posting your offers.
This way you could stake your claim on any range from 0%-n% and anyone who attempts to undercut you has the same choice and doesn’t get in front for ‘free’ with a 1c undercut.
And again in Stonemist during a mega battle.
I am crashing frequently in EB with a 64 bit system, no overlays. It did crash on reset night in FA BL, but most happen while in Stonemist when the FA horde is heading my way.
Usually an immediate crash, but one time I was locked in place unable to move, but skills still worked. I also experienced the locked in place earlier outside of WvW and had to jump to a portal to free myself.
Trying to get 5 Stonemist caps is quite frustrating between the crashes and the FA hordes.
PLEASE FIX THIS ALREADY!
In real life it doesn’t cost 5% to list an item. If I could re-list 1c lower for free every time I was undercut it would be more like real life. In real life I can have my bids automatically raised up to a preset limit each time I am outbid.
And crash AGAIN, right in Stonemist……
And back in the queue to crash again….
I am puzzled there is no thread here on this. It seems any time I am in a big battle in WvW, especially around Stonemist, there is a high chance of crashing.
Now that our server has queues pretty often this is especially frustrating. Twice now this week I have missed a Stonemist cap because of this issue and with the constant EBG queues I have only managed one of the five needed for the achievement.
I’ve watched ectoplasm shift below 36s on sell orders. With a 1% mandatory undercut, if I dont want to take the risk of ectos shifting below their current buy price and losing more money, I have no choice but to sell TO the buy orders. And you’re also disregarding the fact that as the price creeps down, it’s not ONE PERSON doing a listing here and there, it can be hundreds of players throwing their listings onto the market driving the price down 1c at a time.
In fact, the price of ectos, since the time of my last post, have dropped to just 1c over the buy order prices. Now it’s a matter of time to see if they shift even further down, or rise back up in price.
I guess I am missing something, if you want to be SURE to sell your ecto at the current buy order then just fill it. If your trying to make the max profit without your ecto getting potentially ‘locked up’ for some period of time you sell at 38.7s and are first in line. If someone wants to cut in front of you they now have to settle for 38.4s and risk being cut in front of as well, but not by a meager copper.
It seems to me the 1% would cause a lot more people to actually get in line and stabilize the prices rather than a constant stream of 1c undercutters. People need ecto, and many wont wait for a buy order to fill, so those long lines of sell orders will get filled if people stop undercutting them, and they will get better prices for waiting.
A good example of this are globs of ectoplasm, which at the time of writing this post, has buy orders at above 37s, and sell orders no lower than 39s, both of which vary by as little as 1c. With such a tight boundary between buys and sells, if people were forced into a 1% minimum undercut, they would be forced into selling to buy orders in a matter of seconds.
How would someone be forced into selling into buy orders? To me if they wanted ~39s for their sale they would be forced to GET IN LINE with a 1% minimum undercut rule, not forced to sell for 38.7s.
The primary reason for undercutting is to skip ahead of someone else in line to sell something. That skipping should come with a cost of some minimal difference in price.
Someone listing something for half the cost of an existing listing is really just trying to sell the item and not terribly concerned with profit. Someone listing 1 copper under the existing listing is really just skipping ahead for pretty much the same profit as the original listing.
Most items for sale have at most 20% profit so a 10% minimum undercut would be pretty harsh. I think a minimum of 1% is fine, but would be OK with as high as a 5% limit.
Just think how nice it would be to craft and list something for 10% or 15% profit and not have to worry about being continuously undercut and never selling your item.
Thanks!
………
http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/ only shows the current matchups, not the points earned so far. Why is Anet not showing them somewhere?
So is there a standings page or something? It’s still the first round, but after Friday there should be one somewhere I would think.
(edited by Elric Of Melnibone.4781)
So is Season 2 in the works right now? When I saw the achievements come up I thought it was on, but there are no Season 2 standings anywhere. If that is the case why are we working towards these achievements???
I am pretty sure I saw hints that some kind of exchange system was coming to get power cores. If that happens the price will plummet.
Never saw the notice, but I got some chests opened now and almost 50 dragonite, thanks!
Has anyone checked lately, did they put back Scarlet’s chests in her lair? If the whole thing ends tomorrow are we going to be left with all the chest keys in the bank?
Polite PSA to Anet RE: server population
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Elric Of Melnibone.4781
Why doesn’t this stupid epic finale scale down? I wasted so much of my time today getting 2.x Knights killed in the main instance, or getting kicked into an overflow where there is no chance. The one time I made it past the nights last week, I ended up in another overflow against the holograms. (Not even going to get started on that buff and dodge fest.)
When will they understand, fighting a boss with a gazillion HP and a screen overloaded with graphics and LAG IS NOT FUN! Wasting attempt after attempt and getting next to nothing for it doesn’t help matters. Same thing for the worms. It doesn’t matter how neat the individual boss mechanics are when they are so kitten overloaded. (Just because the game will ‘mostly’ handle 50-150 people in one battle doesn’t mean it’s desirable. Oh look, we almost got it…. CRASH!!!)
The Marionette was perfect. It took a lot of people, but each battle was reasonably sized, and success was still possible if a few players where not quite doing what they should have been. There was also levels of partial success, and a decent amount of loot to make it worth your while. (Where are those Scarlet chests BTW?)
Earning 10g now versus a year ago is very different. 10g used to take some kind of effort to obtain. Now you can make 10g in a matter of hours.
How is that? (Excluding any TP flipping, etc…)
I have been hemorrhaging gold since Ascended equipment came out. Before I had like 500g and made at least a hundred a week crafting/selling exotic armor. Now all my money and efforts go towards Ascended gear and I have under 50g.
Dramatically reduced frame rate when encountering large zergs certainly makes it much harder to survive, let alone skills that won’t fire, is there some way the game client can somehow sense these situations and automatically scale back the graphics in some way to help the situation out?
New "HUB"? What did I change server for? ~.~
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Elric Of Melnibone.4781
The grove is my second favorite after the old LA for crafting convenience. The TP is pretty close, just wish there was a forge there. Ebonhawk is more convenient, but not very scenic, and has annoying NPC’s begging for event help. Divinity is good for armorsmith and the station next to it (forget now), but is to long a run for the other stations, and I don’t really like having to WP even though it’s instant. LA also had the fractal WP so that made it the best, not counting community which is seriously broken now, but hopefully not permanently.
Managing buy and sell orders needs improvement as well. I shouldn’t have to write an app to see when I have been outbid or undercut, and I shouldn’t have to click so many times to modify an existing order.
Also, saved searches would be awesome, even if they limit us to only a handful.
Engineers have it rough with back packs. Any time you equip a pack your stuck with this big ugly thing hanging off you. Would be nice if you could disable that or they could downsize that somehow.
With all of these winged back packs, when will we get one that lets us fly or at least glide a little?
It’s not about where else crafting stations are available, it’s about destroying the central hub where EVERYTHING was available and most people hung out. Now you have to warp somewhere to craft which is a royal pain.
If that is fixed with the next release or maybe at the end of this story arc, it’s no big deal, but to put permanent airship passes on sale for only a week when we don’t know what’s coming seems a little under handed.
^ Preach it Draknar. +1
this was just pure chaos.
It’s an invasion. War. If it feels like chaos in LA than the devs did their jobs.
/Agree
War/Invasions are not organized sterile events. The planning of it might be, but the actual reality of it…nope. Loud, chaotic, sometimes terrifying….oh yeah.
The problem is most of the events end so quickly you can’t get there in time to help. All of the escort/rescue events need to ‘wait’ until someone shows up to escort them. Getting around the dark torn up LA takes to long when the events only seem to last a minute or two. I got tired of the ‘save the children’ events which are very long so I tried through one whole invasion to do rescues and spent the entire time running around getting nothing done.
Try coming in from a different door?
I can understand making some of the events a little longer; however, I don’t think they should ‘wait’ until someone is there. Fleeing npcs trying to make it out whether someone is there to help them or not adds to the immersion, at least to me. It makes sense that people are going to try to get the heck out of dodge before they end up killed.
Well if there was a chance the marines where going to show up and escort you would you wait a minute before running for it? Maybe the event could spawn a bit earlier so people have a chance to respond to it rather than waiting around for it, doing nothing?
Goodbye to helping each other out
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Elric Of Melnibone.4781
There’s dead and there’s downed, very different situations. If there is a heated battle going on, no matter where, WvW, Fractals, Dungeons, Events, you never stop to mess with the dead. The dead need to waypoint themselves if possible so they can get back and help. Sometimes it’s OK to wait for a rez, but it’s very situational.
Getting yourself downed to raise the dead is just stupid. As for the downed, it’s a judgment call. If your already low on health, downing yourself makes no sense. Staying alive and killing an enemy has got to be the smartest choice. If your healthy, then healing a downed person is best because they are an asset once they are back on their feet, unless they are a rally bot. If someone continuously goes down, they are just weighing the party down.
I have seen a problem since long before the latest patch where my inventory window gets shrunk to minimum and moved near the center. It seemed to happen at least once a week or more. This is just the opposite and much more often. Hopefully they can fix both at once.