Guild Wars 2

Ricky.4706:

ditto to say that the vets are whining. We’ve endured a lot and are not asking for much.

What have you endured? You’ve had 3 years of fun with this game. New players will never know what lions arch once looked like. They will never know the funny side talk about your face or salad jokes. They won’t know what it was like to have the first big world event with thousands of Karkas invading lions arch. They will never know how desperately we fought for our city to get it back from scarlet. They will never have the satisfaction of killing scarlet. They will never know the struggle to get that wvw orb. They will never know how we recruited rox and Braham.
But you do. And you will let the story go on.

How can you be so pathetic about 10$? If you are a true veteran then you love the game and you are happy about a bigger community instead of crying for gifts.
And you know that in the end-all we want is to play together and have fun. No crying, no flaming, just enjoying the game together.
That’s what the guild wars community stands for. And if you don’t share this attitude and prefer to keep crying for gifts, feel free to do it. But don’t say you are representing the opinion of this community.

Ricky.4706:

Not me, ain’t nobody got time for that …I’ve been there for lags, crashes, hackers, bugs… failed events,….and I endured and loved them all the same!

I guess we played a different game then.
I only experienced bugs in the very beginning of gw2 where they were totally understandable. I never had a major number of crashes and I never saw a hacker that took my fun.
And I played wvw for years. You have no idea about lags.

Eagle.7208:

Yeah, my favourite free part of this expansion is paying another 10 € for 800 gems to play the only thing that matters for me in this whole DLC, the revenant.

Or am I expected to delete 1 of my other 5 characters that cost me 20€ each in bagspace, a load of gold in armour and many good memorys, just to try out a class that I may or may not like.

Here I saw this video on a different thread. Watch it and tell me that we are greedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

You are greedy.
If you want to use the monkey analogy: it is like the left monkey got additional bananas the entire last month while the right didn’t get anything. And now he is mad about the few grapes.
But you can’t compare this since it’s too complex for them to understand.

There is only one justified reason to start a flamewar like this.
And that’s the FAQ change.
Everything else is pure greedy rage.

In one thread you read “It’s not about the 50$ it’s about is paying the same like a new guy” and in the next thread you read “I don’t care about the new guys I just want to pay less” and in the next thread you read “ANet hasn’t told us what’s going to come with the expansion but I say that it’s not worth the money because I’m a blind rager”
But in the end all they say is “Weeee I’m a crying veteran. It hasn’t been enaugh for me to enjoy this game for thousands of hours the last 3 years while only paying 50$ once. I want more more more.”
Just greedy rage.

And we can’t stop talking about it. If we don’t say anything outstanding people will think that the entire community is against it. Which it is obviously not.
People like to believe they are the majority with their complaints but fact is that most people enjoyed the game and will buy the expansion because they know that they will enjoy it again. And ANet knows it as well. In the end all the flamers will buy it as well because they see that their childish greedy crying is not as effective as they wished and instead they just go and enjoy the game like anyone else.

Also I just feel sad for the forum moderators who have to read all this bullkitten so I want to at least tell them that I believe in ANet and that I support them.
And if it’s only for the smile on their face.

They showed you the amount of content they bring in over time with the first game.

The concept of Guild Wars 2 is to simply split up the content so that you get to play over a long period of time and don’t finish the entire story within 2 days.

If you don’t like that concept, save your money.
If you did like the concept of Guild Wars 2 until now, what hinders you to support ANet to keep it like that?

You don’t even know more than 2 or 3 aspects of the expansion yet. So how can you evaluate it’s value?
They can come around the corner with 500 new things you haven’t even thought of until now. Yet you are judging the entire Addon by 1-2 mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. But how do you know what will be in the end? Do you have a time machine? No.

In these days I want to have a little counter under everyones forum name that shows the exact time you spent ingame.
And then you see at least 80% of the players with over 1000 hours of playtime complaining about a bad value for their money…

There hasn’t been anything revealed in this category so you can’t evaluate it yet.

That’s the reason why I find this part of the kitten storm totally stewpied.

Pre purchase is for people who trust the company and who like to support them in the early stage.
If you want to wait for more content to be revealed it’s fine as well. As we know, it’s usually the better option.

But don’t judge it before you even know what’s coming.

scerevisiae.1972:

No, once a contract is formed (through purchase) you can’t retrospectively change the terms of the contract unless the contract specifically & clearly states that it’s a contract term.

Even then, there are limits. If the value of the purchased goods/services is materially less than the original offer to the extent that the buyer would not have made the purchase otherwise, then you have solid grounds for a case under contract law, and/or existing “bait and switch” statutes/common law.

^ This

They can only do what you agreed to on purchase. Later changes have no valid point before law, because you didn’t know it when purchasing.
Otherwise they could just add things like “you have to give us your house” with the reason, that you knew they had the right to change the agreement.

10 dungeons
6 raids
(basically only grinding grinding grinding grinding. Don’t know anything about HoT group content yet.)

100 new armors
(Think about all the skins that came with the living story the last 3 years. There will come more over time)

150 quests
(How many of those wall of text quests are you actually doing besides your main story? Again: you don’t know anything about how much you can do on the new maps. They said that there is a huge density of content so it will easily compete with that)

20 mounts
(like he said above…nothing exciting)

1 continent
10 big maps
(It is only logical that you will get to explore the entire Maguuma Jungle over time with the living story which means more maps. Also again: you don’t know how many maps you will get with HoT or how big they will be)

1 class
new skills
(HoT: New class, elite specialisations for all other classes, normal specialisations)

new levels
(Who gives a kitten? Only justifies the enormous amount of grinding content in the game)

regular updates
new pvp maps
new arena
(Just like HoT)

new gear (pvp , pve)
(Yaaay keep up the item loop. We need to make better gear with a higher level for every expansion so people have an actual reason to do 500 raids with a 0.001% chance of those things dropping. It would be horrible if they actually did this because of pure joy)

Yep…WoW is truly awesome.

You are definitly going too far now…

Random.4691:

Just throwing this out there but wouldn’t a simple “FAQ’s are subject to change at the discretion of Anet” have taken care of everything ?

Again, I’m not a lawyer so I’m honestly asking this question because I really don’t know if there needs to be more to it ?

They have the right to do so. There is technically nothing wrong about it.
Yet they should do something for the players who bought it just because of that FAQ in order to restore their good reputation.

The case is pretty simple imo:
HoT only contains the content from HoT (only few new areas)
You are NOT able to play this without the core game. The fact that you do get the base game for free doesn’t change this.
They always stated that you do need the core game for HoT so they technically never lied at you.
They still have the option of selling the core game and the expansion seperatly. But the fact that they don’t do it doesn’t affect the other statements.

I’d imagine the earlies date to be in a month or so.
a) they first need some time to sell the preorders
b) they first need to balance the new trait system etc before caring about beta balance

When it’s done.

I think you should be able to get some of the statues that are ingame already.
I imagine a great warriors guild having statues of Brandor, Jora, Snaff etc.

That’s no offense imo.
That’s exactly what is going to happen.

You will get over it because you will enjoy the game.

csebal.5936:

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

I just wanted to take some time to thank you for kicking those who are down already and for posting an obvious flame bait thread in an explosive and gunpowder filled atmosphere. Your kind of fake honesty and barely masked insults is everything this community needs.

You Sir, are AWESOME.

Interesting how a simple try to show ArenaNet that not everyone in the forum is part of the blind rage-roflstomp-blob is taken as a provocation.
What is wrong about showing a good opinion as well?

You will keep your influence with the expansion. You just can’t get anymore.

“Once you have access to the Guild Initiative Headquarters and your guild hall, we’ll allow you to spend influence to accelerate your initial progress in building up your guild hall in the following ways:

Each day, you may trade a limited amount of influence for favor.
Once per day, you may use influence to purchase a small boost to your aetherium production.
Whenever it suits you, you may convert influence to resonance."

The first article is 100% perfect imo.

There are mistakes but it’s by far no reason to create a kittenstorm like they were adding monthly subscriptions.

TL:DR Version of the article:

The FAQ change was mean and everyone has a right to complain about this.
The pricing is in a fair margin, even though it can be considered a bit higher than it could be. Still no reason for such a kitten storm.
You had fun with the game until now and the price for the expansion was firm. No reason to complain there as a veteran. (People who bought because of the FAQ fall under category 1, right to complain) (read the Skyrim analogy in the article if you just can’t get it in your head)
If you know you will buy it anyway, buy it now. If not just wait for more details. No reason to discuss about content yet. (Usual preorder behaviour)

And my favourite quote:
“Am I going to get about 50 hours of fun out of it? If yes, then it’s worth the cost… if no, then I’ll not buy it: End of story,” he declared. “It being a Guild Wars 2 game, I’m pretty sure there is more than 50 hours of fun gameplay in it."

End of story.

Allow me to compare GW2 dungeons to GW1 hardmode dungeons.

Guild Wars 1:
You have to have 8 players all working together taking different roles (a decent tank, healers etc). You need to know your class (especially healers) and customize your build specifically to the enemies you are awaiting there. (Many meele? Many casters? a lot of aoe or a lot of cc? Many conditions, many hexes or much direct damage?) You need decent bufffood to make it even near possible to do the dungeon. Then you go in slowly, pulling every single group so you don’t take too much damage. And even then you can easily wipe because of that one random nps who suddenly interrupted your healer, the tank getting a random knockdown, your cc beeing interrupted, a hex beeing on your tank you can’t remove within 2 seconds and that prevent him from casting…I think you get the point.

Guild Wars 2
-Form your group.
-Cast timewarp.
-Yell “LEEEEEEROOOOOY”
-Gather loot

The stream isn’t live yet.

“Today’s Points of Interest livestream is about Guild Halls and we’ll only talk about that. If you have feedback about other topics, please go to the forums where we’re collecting feedback and passing it on to the teams ~Stéphane”

You just can’t do maths like this.
It’s all about how many people will buy it in the end.

And if A-Net doesn’t do any discounts they must be sure that this gives most revenue in the end = almost equal amount of people will buy it anyway.

Robotmoxie.4025:

[[I GOT REALLY CARRIED AWAY AND WROTE AN ESSAY, I’M SO SORRY]]

-snip-

Thank you very much.

Also I think that you shouldn’t hang up on that one-map-idea.
Look at Guild Wars 1. Maguuma Jungle is HUGE. Why do you think we should only get one map with this? We also know relativly sure that every expansion brings a new dragon. So there wouldn’t be a point to save the rest of Maguuma for a later expansion, which again means that at some point of the Living World you will get to explore everything in Maguuma.
And I say it again: It’s huge.

Instead of paying to get everything at once now, playing through it the next 3 weeks and beeing finished they keep up your motivation and your playtime for a long period of time. That’s very nice.
All you have to do is to trust them because you know that Guild Wars 2 is an awesome game and will stay an awesome game.

I’m definitly looking forward to it. And I’m sure you will like it as well once you understand this.

Goldberg.4831:

Its not about gear, its about fun and challenge. Which makes GW2 dungeons stand out, I dont have to run them 4327986 times. I chose too.

Maybe it’s just me then. But from the people I know it is fun to repeat them, yes. But not as much fun as for example the dungeons in Guild Wars 1 I did over and over again.
You maybe do them each day for your free gold, but after ~30-40 runs they just become too repetitive.
And people were always complaining that dungeons in GW2 don’t serve as endgame content. So i bet people would again be upset because they already know that the dungeon isn’t something you can do for the next 3 years again.
The amount of time it takes to design and programm an entire dungeon just doesn’t stack up against the time you actually spend in it.

SpeedFiend.4521:

The lack of dungeons (and ridiculous pricing) is exactly why I won’t be getting HoT, probably not even when it goes on sale for half price.

But what kind of content would you want?
Are you satisfied by just doing the same raid instance 4327986 times because the item you want has a drop chance of 0.0000001% ?
That’s not how it should be.
And I’m happy that it’s not how they do it.

The problem ist that people don’t want to do things without a reward. But the game wants to prevent grinding. But without grinding and a reward the content isn’t attractive for players and has no reason to be replayed.
You can take fractals for example. I’m pretty sure that they are played much more than usual dungeons. Why? Not because they are always different (which they aren’t after 100 runs) but because you have to work for your ascended gear which is again some sort of grinding.

There is no concept to compete with this yet.
That’s the challenge for A-Net. They obviously couldn’t find a proper solution yet, but I really hope they will.

I think these dungeons don’t fit the gameplay overall.
There is just no motivation to play them over and over again, like they wish their content to be. And there is also no real reward for playing them.

I think we might get to see something in the future. But then I suppose they overwork all the existing dungeons first, because they are just not as appealing as they thought.
But it will take a long time. The lead dungeon designer left because of that fiasco and it will take a while to form an entirely new team and create entirely new content.

And also you have to see what they need to focus on. And this is getting new players to buy the game. That’s where their money comes from. We’ve clearly seen that endgame content isn’t the highest priority in the game. So don’t expect a lot to come in the near future.

Peterpan.3824:

I was really looking forward to what HoT would bring to the game. The game would once again flourish with new and returning players, there would be new content to explore, new builds would develop and the community would feel really alive and active again.

People might be upset now. But I’m absolutly sure that 99% of them will still buy it once they see how awesome it is.

I’m pretty sure they did.

But now there is no chance for them to satisfy the masses.
So why bother trying?

stof.9341:

Upgrade your full account with HoT? You buy it then you must pay again to use it. This is somewhat despised by customers hence why as far as I remember, every payed (and some free too) expansions that added a new class came with one or more free char slots unless the slots were very generous to begin with.

In my eyes it’s more like this:
You have a garage at a car vendor (char slots). And you were collecting cars for years and years. Now your garage is full, so you either have to find another spot for your next car or throw out one of your older ones.
But someone buying a new garage will have all the space they need for their new car.

Yet you have the advantage of having some awesome old cars in your garage that you love and take care of.
But you won’t say “Hey I bought your cars over the years and stored them in my garage at your place. Can’t you just give me another one for free since I’m running out of space?”

So let’s assume that A-Net actually said anything about the current state.
What would you like to hear?

If they give you a free character slot people say “omg 50$ is still too much for such little content. You just want to give us some free gifts so we buy your kitten”

Or what if they removed the core game and made it 5-10$ cheaper? Do you really think that all the people who got this emotional will be impressed wether it’s 50$ or 40$. They won’t.

There is simply no possibility for A-Net to satisfy people now, unless they make like a 50% price off for the addon. Which we all know isn’t going to happen.

They will take their time, release their blog posts and legitimize the price tag with the features that are about to come.
That’s how it’s going to be. Everyone will buy the game, see that it’s awesome, stop crying and we will have a wonderful time playing together.
Or they will take any tiny littly bug they can find to “justify” their cries, because they can’t accept that the story will have a good ending for the game.

Menadena.7482:

Most of what was announced (traits and such) will be in the core game anyway

But it only comes because of HoT so you can easily count it as content you are paying for with HoT.

The thing about the character slot is this: I don’t like the decision either, but with the original game you had 5 (or 4?) character slots. So you would have to delete or buy new ones if you want to experience this content as well.
So why should it be a lot different with HoT?

Instead of getting 1 additional class that you’d like to get a character slot for you should rather see it like 9 classes for your existing 5 slots instead of 8 now.
There is no big difference. Delete a character or buy a slot. Simple as that.

Just to be sure I say it again: I don’t like it either, but in my eyes it’s a valid argumentation of WP.

Koviko.3248:

sharkswithlazers.7632:

Everyone is so mad about a 10$ difference that we have losers leaving the game altogether

It’s not just $10. It’s EVERYONE’S $10. It’s an extra 20% profit margin for what? Less content?

Even WoW increased the amount of character slots people got per server when they released expansions.

It is not everyone’s money. It would have been 50$ with and without the core game.
6 months ago you got gw2 for 10 bucks, so why is it that hard to believe that it’s for free now?
That’s like buying some beer with a free bottle opener as marketing and asking to get the beer on discount instead because you already have one. That makes no sense.

SleepingDragon.1596:

It’s not hatred. If I remember correctly, the best customers are ones that complains or one who tells the business what is wrong with their product. Customers that provide phony support even knowingly how bad it is, does not make the business do better. Longer term, that business goes out of business. So all those who’s making valid complaints are indeed NCSoft and ANet’s best customers!

But there are only like 1% valid complaints in this kitten storm. That’s the problem.

slobby.6975:

I started the game just over a month ago. I find the lack of response to veteran players’ anger to be very disappointing.. I also feel Anet will get away with it because the fanbase loves the game so much. Some are so grateful for new content they are defending Anet’s policy.

However, as a new player I have no deep connection with the game so I need to leave aa soon as possible before I get attached.

It’s not really about the money, it’s trivial compared to my mortgage and bills. It’s more about their disregard for existing customers.

My best wishes for everyone who’s staying.

Best wishes to everyone who’s leaving.

Goodbye

You will return.
They always return.

Leon Heart XIII.4609:

If you played GW 1 then you also should also think this is full of bull, Factions and Nightfall was $50 but contain alot more content as stand alone games, but then there’s Eyes of the North the actual expansion to guild wars 1 is $40 which contained the following-

41 new armor sets
100 new profession-specific skills
50 new PvE only skills including 3 elite skills
10 new heroes
18 Dungeons
124 new quests
4 New regions

Useless we get more info about the content that’s going to be in HoT, compared to EotN it’s definitelty not worth $50.

But you have to think about 2 things.
a)In Guildwars 2 Quality>Quantity
b)Guild Wars 1 expansions were made within 6 months. HoT took almost 3 years.

The communication was complete kitten there, that’s for sure.
But technically they didn’t lie to anyone.
The fact that you get the base game with the expansion still doesn’t negate the fact that you do need the base game for the expansion.

But I have to say that this is one of the few problems where I really understand people to be upset.

dank.3680:

Entenkommando.5208:

dank.3680:

This is NOT and NEVER was a sub game. There are other non-sub games out there, compare it to one of those.

It had an improved combat system.
It had an improved questing system.
It had an improved event system.
It had free content over 3 years.
It had 0 p2w.

Everything cost 50$ only.

I think they won the comparison.

Yeah GW2 is a great game, and gave all the promised value at its price when released (I pre-ordered the 60$ package).

This half kitten “expansion” is not worth the cost of the full game.. Now show me some kind of relevant comparisons that show why HOT is worth 50$?

Because the base game was worth way more than 60$, because you had free content for 3 years, because you will supposably get another few years of free content.

Let’s just assume that besides the Living story all big updates would have been saved for an expansion.
The new pvp browser, new pvp maps, the new WvW ranks, the WvW ruins, fractals, ascended gear, Guild missions, the improved world bosses, everything. All the things you did get for free.
Would this amount of content be enaugh for an expansion? 100% yes.
And you can assume this way of updating with HoT as well.

dank.3680:

This is NOT and NEVER was a sub game. There are other non-sub games out there, compare it to one of those.

It had an improved combat system.
It had an improved questing system.
It had an improved event system.
It had free content over 3 years.
It had 0 p2w.

Everything cost 50$ only.

I think they won the comparison.

Braxton.3926:

I’m thinking I’ll likely buy it… I haven’t really gotten far in GW2 yet and I know if I get it I’ll play it.

It’ll be fun.

If you haven’t done a lot and you are not sure yet if you will like it till the end you should wait.

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

+1

I have been playing Guild Wars for years, I enjoyed Guild Wars 2 and I know you will make HoT awesome.

Keep up the work.

Odyssey.2613:

You don’t see a reason not to trust a corporation?

How ‘bout the fact they’re a corporation?

Reason enough for me.

No problem if you think so.

But I play the Guild Wars franchise since 8 years so I know I can trust them.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Just think which of these choices is the most intelligent and educated choice:

1. Fork out the money now, based on very little information or
2. Wait until more information comes out giving you a better idea of the value.

You can mock me for choosing option 2, but let’s not forget – only fools rush in.

I also usually prefer option 2.
I’m just saying that if you know you like the game and you know that you personally trust the developer and will be playing the game 100% sure you can invest your money now and get the little bonus as well.

Odyssey.2613:

Are you friggin serious?

Can’t tell if you are serious or troll….

Want a short answer?

The Anet of 2015 is the polar opposite of the Anet of 2006.

I am dead serious.

8000h in Guild Wars 1, 5000h in Guild Wars 2.
I don’t see a reason not to trust them.

Arenanet also did pre purchase before. And they didn’t disappoint us.
So why do you believe they do it now?
You had an awesome first game. You had an awesome Guild Wars 2. Why is there any reason to believe that HoT won’t be awesome as well?

It is for free.

A few months ago it was in sale for only 10$ so where is your problem to believe that the price went from 10$ to 0$ now?

They also confirmed that the price of 50$ was firm, with or without the base game.

RabbitUp.8294:

Did you see this amount of complaints before the E3? Anet originally promised that all content will be free and they weren’t planning to make an expansion.

Yet, 3 year later, they do just that. And even though they broke their promise, nobody really complains and are hyped for the new expansion. There were some grey spots here and there, but generally, the playerbase was happy.

They never said that they will make everything for free.
They said that they will provide you with free evolving story content over time instead of having it smashed in your face all at once.
But they always said that there will be expansions once the game is ready for it. And there are features that have to come with expansions. They just wanted to focus on getting the actual game good before launching a new expansion.

sharkswithlazers.7632:

snip

Thank you very much.
People just can’t appreciate all the time they spent for such little money and all the fun they had.
Everybody wants everything for free.
Imagine you are paying 70 bucks for every new Call of Duty that is 95% copy/paste and nobody cares.

I understand the problem about the character slot..I also wish I’d get one for free. But your argument about needing it for the content is invalid.
You also had to buy them in the first game to enjoy all the content if you don’t want to delete your chars, and did you cry there? No? Because it’s 100% legit.

MashMash.1645:

Entenkommando.5208:

If you had fun with the game already and you are sure that 50$ will bring you hundreds of hours of fun, go ahead and preorder.

It’s not about what you get, it’s about what you will get in the future.

How can we be sure though? They have released so little info on what content we are getting, that you are gambling at this point in time.

Waiting till nearer release loses you nothing, other than guaranteed beta access. If they eventually reveal tons of content and zones, which I hope happens, grab it then and you can be satisfied you’ll get value for money.

Of course you don’t lose anything when waiting.
But you can also show A-Net that you trust them and that you had so much fun in the first game that you willingly pay the money because the time-price-ratio was more than superb.

The question shouldn’t be if there is a reason to trust them, but rather if there is a reason not to trust them if you look in the past.

If you had fun with the game already and you are sure that 50$ will bring you hundreds of hours of fun, go ahead and preorder.

It’s not about what you get, it’s about what you will get in the future.