Our goal was to ensure we didn’t really need to tweak any major game system again after this expansion and our focus could be entirely on adding new content, and building on top of – rather than expanding outward systemically. WvW is the one major feature I’d say we didn’t end up accomplishing this goal, the project is so large it didn’t end up fitting into the scope of the expansion and we still have work to do to address core fundamental issues like population balance, rewards, scoring, night capping, etc. As always we don’t discuss features in development until they are far enough along to share meaningful details, so for now we’ll just say WvW is the final big game system on our radar – and we’ve had a lot of great conversations with our players about what they’d love to see from epic large scale PvP combat.
At least a confession they couldn’t make it in time. That’s the answer many of you have asked for. We all know wvw is huge. And we know they definitely pushed out the expansion before it was 100% finished … Maybe at some point…. In 2 or 3 more years (or 1 year If you are an optimist =P) most things will be fine.
But at least this means that up to a certain point wvw isn’t finished and once things may be changed it will get better. If you can’t stand it now just leave until then. You are free to go. But I’m happy to not be confirmed that this is the wvw they want to have.
And I’m actually really surprised that he calls things like nightcap a serious problem.
I’m also playing wvw in the state it is right now, but I’m happily looking forward to better times.
This is of course nothing immediate and I definitely don’t think that this justifies the very very obvious mistakes that have been made on the new map, but hey, if wvw players have one ability it’s patience by far. And we will see how quick they work on the most important issues once all the QQ threads become abandoned.
The notion that this new map is designed to break up blobbing is absolutely laughable. You place incentive on defense and ppt over fights and made capturing stuff harder instead of working towards a balance, what on earth made you think this would make blobbing less of an obvious strategic choice, and since a server can have so much more on a map now, blobbing is even more effective, useful and lag inducing then ever. And of course autoupgrades, the negative effect of it is that it simply encourages more blobbing since stuff upgrades so much faster and easier and who would rather attack a fully upgraded objective when they can ktrain it and keep it paper?
Did you ask your crystal ball to know that? I thought maps are all empty. Suddenly everyone knows how big numbers play on this map.
Who goes to wvw for the pve, anybody? Are all the pve maps not enough you think people just have to go into wvw to kill dinosaurs and moas?
Please explain me how the heck some PvE mobs shall be able to change anything about how WvW is played. Have you ever noticed their impact on the old borders? They don’t even rally you anymore unless it’s a veteran.
Yes, nobody cares about the mobs but borders would look even more empty without and I’m sure there would again be enaugh people complaining about that.
So basically they don’t disturb anyone but give the map a more round touch.
Navigation and movement on the map is absolutely terrible, when your trying to rush somewhere to defend, catch up to your group, or run back after dying, and instead your standing there wasting time looking for a way down that wont kill you…oh hey maybe this fall wont kill me…Speed and response time is crucial in wvw, changing the map to what is essentially a giant jumping puzzle turns everything into a frustrating obstacle.
l2p
Enaugh people will tell you that you can move as quickly as on the old maps.
Gimmicks EVERYWHERE, why? Perma stealth in sand? Megalaser that can damage all gates controlled after doing a pve event, on and on. Whoever thought that keeping track of all this gimmicky garbage while trying to fight an even bigger blob was ever a good idea?
The only thing I agree with you. And the lag issue ofc.
TL;DR This just seems like you are searching for anything you don’t like to complain about and make it look bad. No matter how small or skill based it is.
The border maps are all designed to favor a single team which means they’d have to rework 2 entire maps to realize this.
And that’s definitely not happening within the next 3 years.
SfR will probably be an endless cycle of good guilds building up the server to have fun, bandwagoners joining the server keeping it up top, guilds leaving because of the endless blob fights, bandwagoners leaving because they don’t win anymore and guilds returning.
afaik this is the 3rd time sfr goes down now. We will see what future brings.
It’s amusing. The other month people were up in arms because Mike O’Brien insinuated that very few people played the WvW game mode exclusively. Now when you ask where all the WvW players are, you’ll be told “they’re in PvE.” Guess he was right afterall.
I still call myself wvw only player even if I do pve maybe 1-2 months within 3 years, because I love the lore of the universe.
Everything over 80-90% wvw playtime is “WvW only” for me but doesn’t exclude pve or pvp entirely.
Tbh I can’t remember any but maybe 1-2 threads asking for auto loot before it got announced, so no…not a troll comment. And you can definitely not speak about “everyone” or the entire 3 years.
We’ve got worse problems in WvW
It sounds nice at first but I think this would also heavily support the stronger server.
Say you are 40v70 defending your keep. They can’t get in because you have too many people using siege, but you also have no chance in an actual confrontation.
Now they only need to go to the Skyhammer, camp it with 70 guys, shoot down your gates and steamroll your group because you don’t have any chance to defend yourself.
So all we need now is shield generators to we win?
No but it’s about making a point. We must not allow them to even think about starting such things.
Everybody has to be equal in a pvp mode. They are already violating this rule with gear sets, but at least every player could obtain them equally. Not in this case.
So where is the p2w that you are talking about? People use that phrase too much now a days and have no clue what it even means.
Once again: the new siege weapon gives you access to mechanics nobody else can achieve…to negate ac damage for example. We all know how powerful arrowcarts are so this is a pretty heavy point if you don’t have HoT.
Elite specs aren’t that grave. They just rearrange damage/support/cc skills over the different classes. You can still choose any of the “old” classes to fullfil this role. Maybe not exactly the way the elite specs can do but the overall outcome is pretty equal.
But in this case you don’t have any possibility to get the mechanics HoT owners get. And this is p2w in my eyes.
Just as an example: if you support your group as an old staff elementalist, as a druid or as a revanant might be a different playstyle, but in the end you can support your group with any of those classes. HoT or not. And as long as you have an alternative it is not true p2w.
Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, necro are still relatively equal if you don’t have hot. Engi depends on the balance.
Mesmer is definitely better with, but I guess he will also get some more balancing.
And I doubt you play thief or Ranger.
Besides the new siege you can’t use there won’t be a huge difference in wvw.
And you can also still easily play the old things in pvp even though some elite specs might be quite hard to fight.
It should, like the borderlands, be a general addition to wvw and not hot only.
Do we know what comes next? Maybe a new Super golem with 5x omega damage? What are you saying then?
If we ignore them now we as a community give them permission to think about realising things like that. But this would destroy wvw. And we have to prevent something like that.
So all we need now is shield generators to we win?
No but it’s about making a point. We must not allow them to even think about starting such things.
Everybody has to be equal in a pvp mode. They are already violating this rule with gear sets, but at least every player could obtain them equally. Not in this case.
Please change it so that we can’t just click on the map and see the upgrade status of an enemy keep.
This makes any kind of scouting ahead useless and will enforce ktrain because you can just look on the map, see which keep is about to get upgraded and just go flip it again.
SFR hasn’t been full in months… most of us transferred elsewhere for one reason or another… but you still can’t transfer there because the only way that Anet could break their dominance was by stopping people replacing the people who leave.
Oh, lol, this was hilarious. Thank you
It’s ok if you don’t know anything about sfr since you are obviously not there.
sfr hadn’t had any ques 99% of the time since well over 4 weeks. 10man for ebg on reset if you were lucky.
It’s pretty obvious that their algorythm is broken.
PS: I just logged in and saw the new full EU servers. Whatever you say, your algorythm must be stoned.
I’m always a bit critical when people say that only numbers matter.
I play on sfr and I can tell you that skill is much more important than numbers (in a decent ratio ofc) and I’d always take 40 awesome guys over 60 random noobs.
I haven’t had any problems capping camps as a roaming group but solo capping became really hard.
The pop-ups are really annoying and I really don’t understand why we’d need it. It’s not that hard to look at the map for once.
I really don’t know how they could do this mistake 3(!) times now.
It is 100% obvious that as long as the event’s outcome is dependent on player numbers the bigger server will always win.
We told you 2 (3 if you count quaggan) times and you still do the same kitten over and over again. What is wrong with you?
Go to your test server, put 10 guys on one team, 30 on the other and tell me who wins the event. I’d love to bet on the outcome.
Close this thread and reopen it in 3-4 weeks. There are no real opinions yet.
Many people play hot so we have to wait to see if the size and everything is good once you actually have que on every border again.
Not to mention the time you need to simply get uses to thus map. It just needs some time.
That’s also the reason why I won’t tell yet if I like it or not. Because nobody can already know how it will be played.
cmon guys when u map out that just a visual effect that will fixed, also does not impacts the game.
for sure they have that in the to do list.
Actually I’d really expect something THAT simple to be done before release. It definitely seems like another 3-4 months would have been better for them to complete hot.
Getting inside of the keeps is really fun.
What I dislike the most is how incredibly easy it is to defend the circle, but I hope this gets a bit better with the bigger map so you can’t constantly run from spawn.
Fighting Vizunah in the past (the best eu server in terms of defense) I remember fighting 8-10 hours straight inside the garrison Lord room. But on the other hand this is where the real farm starts xD
I really like the idea of heavy defense. It should be like that. If you want to take the one any only big enemy keep you are supposed to take more than 2 minutes.
Attack with trebs from far enough – no mokittenamage. Take omegas if you wanna go full force – they can destroy canons and attack from range.
You will have to think differently than just rushing through gates without a defenders chance to even arrive at the keep. Take your time, drain their supplies until their keeps look like Swiss cheese and they are forced to fight until the last man to hold their keep. . That is what wvw should be like.
400 points is too much. If done fully with hot points it would equal 200 ranks. Anet have you even tried how long it takes to get 200 ranks?
The impression grows that your “WvW department” doesn’t even play wvw. Or maybe only with full 10,000 ranks cheated?
I don’t know how long it will take to gather the HP in PvE but I think ~50-80 WvW ranks is a good time scale if you are playing normal wvw and not farming eotm.
And it should be aimed at normal wvw because anyone who endures the pain of eotm will also be willing to farm the points in PvE.
OS was an awful place full of gankers and other pond life who got their jollies preventing others from finishing a JP.
I’m glad it got removed from the maps and also glad the rewards were nerfed hard.
They should remove it entirely and tack it on to one of the new maps as a pve area/JP.
It’s not the fault of the players who loved OS that you couldn’t perform at a level that allowed you to be successful there. If you don’t like it then stay out, but there was a huge amount of players that loved it.
Please tell me how to be successful at the JP if you have idiots camping on top of the arena making progression impossible.
The ganking was horrible and had nothing to do with skill level.
GvG will be done in guild halls from here on out, yet another reason to add OS to EotM.
Afaik, we still dont know if that function is fit for purpose? Personally I dont care – it was a long time since I lag did GvG – but I am not so sure we should toss it out just yet.
That’s what it’s there for. The guild halls have arenas that you can invite other guilds to in order to fight against one another.
They said that it’s probably too small for 20v20 or 25v25 so we don’t know yet if it fits.
This would only be possible with 2 currencies. 1 for old hero challenges and 1 for new.
They could then make a pool from your old proofs, put them into your wallet and let each character buy the non hot HP.
But I guess this is too complicated.
The biggest problem after all is that you can gain an undefined amount of HP for of wvw so you will have an advantage with the next elite specs if you wvw a lot.
Do you really want to tell me that the few WXP from the daylies ever mattered so much that we need to discuss that much about it?
If you are a wvw player the answer is no. Or have you been playing wvw because of the awesome ranks? I doubt it.
But how exactly do you think the retroactive would work?
Assuming you get account bound hero points would mean you can do a lvl1 char with all skills and traits unlocked. (which is clearly not what ANet wants)
I’d rather say they should reduce the price a bit more (maybe 2-3 proofs per rank, this should equal about 30-40 ranks for an elitespec which seems fair), but I’m pretty sure that it will not be account bound.
Since ANet doesn’t give free gear choice etc in WvW you also have the argument, that an elite specialisation is supposed to be the endgame content for your class and not be optained within a blink.
PS: The concept is very nice. Just needs some fine tuning to make time consumption reasonable (not equal to PvE but at least a bit realistic)
Well you could at least count siegerazer to the list. It would work without but is a very nice mechanic they’ve done. Yet it didn’t take much effort to implement one event.
WvW ranks would count, if they expanded it to a point where not 50% of the regular wvw players could buy them twice and if the rewards for the amount of playtime you need for the ranks were adjusted. Not to mention the eotm farm…
But any other addition was either fixing their game (OK grey names were nice, let’s count that as well) or stupid things like eotm and ruins.
Zerg meta won’t change. The amount of damage and cc simply requires you to have a pvt frontline which then has to be supported by a zerker backline to still deal some damage.
wolvz — I understand, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Jerry — could you please read John’s most recent post (or read it through again)? (It’s probably on this very page.) I think it might give you some valuable info.
I would like to say, Hi Gray, and first of all i wish there was more “OUT-OF-CLOSET” guys like Joel yesterday, he came from no where, and delivered SO MANY GOOD THINGS!
Now straight to the contructive arguments:
Because Reset day does not effect development team and service group that much I would suggest 3 next things, just 3, no more:
1) Take a look at this chart that was made on reddit and here, http://strawpoll.me/5736600/rIn future, things that don’t effect development, we would more then appreciate if some one from Devs would approach us with question form to fill inHi, guys, this and this changes, we need your opinion if it’s majority, we implement it your way, if it’s some what TIE, 50-50, 40-60 we make it as we feel like.
2) I would love to say with all respect to devs, that our tradition in WvW around reset is more then just a “WVW reset day”, and we both me and YOU Gray, know one thing, that nothing was fixed in one extra day when it came to major or minor problems. And lets be human here, I rather see Devs work fridays then, half fridays and coming on work in Saturdays, every Dev is human too, and weekends OFF is nothing better for them to have own life too. Again i have high respect to devs, but do you guys really think, that WvW game mode was the thing that kept us playing for 3 years?
With all the struggle of rubber bending and skill lags, yes we complained, every normal player do, and you guys should know, that as loyal community as we are in WvW is the best community that every developers should desire. Even if things were pain, buggy, unplayable, we stick with you, we believe in you and most importent, we did find over the years without seasons a way to make us buys. That’s why resets are so important to us, it’s not just a reset day, it’s not just beginning of the weekend. It was people, grouping on fridays and wednesdays, making GvGs, a specials runs, border management of guilds, spreading people around, private made lists of which guild goes where so we don’t interrupt GvGs, because OS is always not an option, organizing and creating own team speaks and webpages, forums, brackets and spreadsheets just to make reset days easier, more organized and as enjoyable as we made them.
3) *I honestly think that you guys know all of this, that you guys respect our choice, but what out-weights us, is that you want to bring more approaching way for new players to start with WvW, I get you, it’s all business you are just not aloud to speak about it just like that, we understand you guys.
But that’s where problems will always be, LvL60 people will come to WvW, and they will be having bad experience, because they will die, and die, and die again, and then people will tell them what they did wrong, and send them back to EOTM and get themselves a WvW gear. That’s where we have to stop for a moment, and think about it, no person will go straight to WvW, every body goes EOTM first, they want to learn pug life, why? Because sooner or later they see, that WvW is not the place for people under lvl 80 and none exotic geared people, WvW is something we take seriously, and people who are not lvl 80, won’t get revived, It’s simple statistics, that reviving an upscaled will cause 90% of another dead player that is lvl 80, just because picking up the upscaled takes same time then lvl 80 person, and the value of both is astronomical difference. And sooner or later people will see rage of us that die for them trying to revive a person that has no clue what they are doing, they will die 20 times and leave WvW.
WvW is hard place for pugs and it’s not that we don’t like new players, but there is this thing, we live for the server, we play for the server, and we want our servers to do well, 1 uplscaled person while we have queue, means 1% of lost power to the commander. People very quickly get adviced to go EOTM, and we also help them to level, just look EU SFR, they have EOTM guild that levels pugs in EOTM to make them ready for WvW, but what we don’t welcome are those that are not willing to join us and live for the server! We play this game mode with more then just pride, many of us, that main WvW, after 3 years are nothing near legendary, and we are fine with it, because WvW community that we made, is more important to us then a shiny skin. It’s OK if you want to bring new people to WvW, because that’s what we already DO, we search for people that are willing to join servers, and we always have queues. And NO ONE BUT US made this pugs a woman and man that play nights and days for the servers. Yes it sounds like we think that WvW is something superior, but it truly, once you are part of community, people know you, people value you, and you have a reason to join to fight another day!*
What i’m about to say, take it as serious as it sounds. Rather then facing the reset time, we would more then love to see changes to HOW QUEUE works. Just think about it, we already have HUGE queues, 40-120 EB queue, and 10-25 borders, and we are barely out of summer.
If we are stuck for at least 60-90 minutes in queue, how about considering something more desirable that would bring quality to the game? Like character swap while staying in queue? Commanders lose a lots of players by DC or they have to leave, and staying and being grounded on same character for 1 hour plus is absurd just because you want to play WvW.
Great text! WvW is not a gamemode – it’s a passion.
If you told us on the very first post that you will need more time to fix problems with the new map and that it will be temporary, 99% of this wouldn’t have happened.
It’s so kitten simple: BE HONEST!
And even though it seems you never cared about this I give you the advise once more: Don’t listen to your fancy data only. WvW is more than numbers. Your numbers represent all people that join wvw, including those who just join once a week. But your numbers don’t show the importance of the communities, the players who are playing this 7 days a week. The players that have built up communities, that organise 99% of the match up for their server. In short: the players that keep wvw alive.
And if you go too far with those people, I swear by God, your gamemode will be dead within a matter of months.
And therefore: listen to the people that are writing in this forum. Let’s say you work on wvw for 8 hours a day as a dev, so you know the code side of things. We play WvW for let’s say 6-8 hours a day so we know what reality behind your numbers looks like.
Together we could create the best game that ever existed. You always cared and worked with your community in gw1 which was part of the success. Don’t give that up please.
So often people complain and beg for change. But they do not truly want it.
People are asking for changes, that incentivise the competitive aspect of the gamemode (You know? PvP and stuff…competitive…not PvDoor night shifts) while ANet does everything to ruin a competitive play, so your comment doesn’t really make sense.
Of course we complain when they do stupid things. What else shall we do?
You don’t get it. What you want may not be what other people want. Moving the reset night to the most active night of the week as Mr. Corpening pointed out, is not a move to make WvW less competitive. Its a move to gain more activity in it.
I don’t know why people can’t see they are speaking for themselves not, the majority of players. The numbers speak for themselves, they have the data we don’t.
You get things very wrong there. While it is true that we are not talking for everyone the opinions of active community members, the only ones that stayed with this gamemode since 3 years, don’t show up in their fancy statistics so they are basically useless imo. Unless you want to tell me that WvW can exist after the active communities stopped playing because they only listen to their fancy data. If I’m in a ts channel together with 100 people and only 3-4 guys like the change I guess you can call that representative. Especially when there are 10 other people describing similar experiences on their server right here.
The removal of the competitive aspect was not specified to this example today, but to your opinion, that we always ask for changes but only complain about what we get. This was meant to adress almost all changes (changes, not fixes of a broken game!) that we’ve gotten in the past.
And it’s only 50% true that we are talking about things we want, because WvW as a matter of fact, is a competitive gamemode and therefore shouldn’t get patches that destroy the competitive aspect. I guess we can agree on that.
If they say “Hey we never wanted WvW to be competitive – we’ve got espoarts” they can PvE this gamemode to the ground. But not as long as they advertise it as “epic battlefield combat”
And anyways…how can this “gain more activity” when the borders are always full already?
