Guild Wars 2

msalakka.4653:

They move threads across subforums all the time.

Really? Never saw that happening personally.

Woop S.7851:

Google cached screenshot of a discussion thread the wvw forum thought police “deleted” (screenshot attached), google it and judge for yourself.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oPiiNLfrMjwJ:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Squads-are-Awesome+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

The post had was pure suggestions and feedback on squad UI after release, yet was deleted by the thought police, apologies to the programmer and hope he’s ok!

Not going to say anymore here as this thread may get deleted too, judge for yourselves. As a veteran player since gw1, all I can say is good luck all!

Having read this thread it’s definitely not the kind of “censorship” people are talking about. It’s quite a constructive thread and I doubt they delete a thread with 3 red posts and 2 from the WvW specialist just for fun.
My guess would be that it’s not very much WvW focused because the squad system is game-wide, so the mod simply deleted it. I think they don’t move threads between subforums.

Of course this doesn’t mean I’m not suspicious. This is just a very bad “proof”

Yes they censor reddit, they censor google, they get your IP from the NSA and delete your ingame account.

Free aluminium hats! Get them before the ANet coorperates with Aliens to control your brain!

Guys? You do realise that you are actually raging about a stupid icon?

Personally I don’t need it. And you have to admit that wvw ranks don’t say anything about your personal skill. PvP is a bit different because you need to work your way up to the top (whether it’s working or not…)
But I definitely don’t need more stupid colourful shiny all over my screen.

Jayne.9251:

I think the latest rumour of change that the majority vocally doesn’t want was the final straw sadly.

Speaking of the “majority’s” opinion about unconfirmed rumours… GG

I still play normal cele nec and med guard.

Harvey.7820:

Entenkommando.5208:

Instead of closing it because of the whiners they can also just work on fixes and let the people who still want to play it have their fun.

What if the whiners are whining precisely because they’re unwilling to “work on fixes”?

And what would change if they closed WvW?

Instead of closing it because of the whiners they can also just work on fixes and let the people who still want to play it have their fun.

Ground target trebs and catas were horrible.

So you want to tell me that in a game with 9 classes, each having 6 trait lines, many different skills and 7-8 different weapons I am forced to play one of 5 or 6 given builds to be able to enjoy the game…no thanks.

You are the one who lacks realism.

Only taking the fact that some classes are simply USELESS in one entire gamemode is completely unacceptable.

Kicker.8203:

A big balance patch every 3 months just doesn’t work changing too many things at once will result in a differently imbalanced meta. You should do many small balance patches.

That’s how they do it. They work several months (or years…ask WvW) on something only to realize that players completely disagree with it.

What I found most funny personally is that he actually said they thought an expansion release with an entirely new class and 9 elite specs comes with a “balance” patch, and that this was very clear in their eyes…

It’s not even close to be as much of a fail as ESO.

https://i.imgur.com/w7xGWx9.png

Just gonna leave that here. I guess it doesn’t need a comment…

We got some of those baggies during todays guild raid.
It’s only little data but I’d guess it’s about 1/10 to 1/20 of the normal bags’ droprate.

Chris.3290:

Yet another boon to blobs and k-trains.

It is actually the exact opposite. If you can’t simply ez pz TP into your contested keeps you actually need to care about scouting ahead and having active defense forces on the map for quick action, since you may need to run 2-3min to get there.

btw: This has been listed as a bug since 3 years so it has never been intended that way. They said multiple times that this seems to be very difficult to fix.

Dawdler.8521:

Well its quite clear now that how the waypoints worked for 3 years was ruining their gameplay mode, just like GvG did. And reset nights. And alpine.
.

Please explain how GvG “ruins” WvW.

I appreciate that they take their time for good balance. But they don’t need to enable leagues then since it’s just completely ridiculous right now.

I guess it’s part of the problem but not the biggest part by far. Basically you sacrifice 1 or 2 raid days for pve. It’s annoying but shouldn’t make a huge difference in the end.

PS: anet took 3 years to fix wvw achievements. Let’s make bets on Guild hall upgrades…

It’s a Guild upgrade afaik

Stilk.6312:

Now let me define my definition of a True WvW Player.

I mostly agree with OP. Basically if you play WvW the way it is intended you are looking for huge scale combat with creative back and forth keep fights that may last hours inluding supply drain, tactical distractions, brute force attacks and what so ever. This is what WvW is supposed to be in my eyes.

A True WvW Player will love fights.
Yes. If you don’t come here to fight you can turn right back on the doorstep.

A True WvW player thinks objectives of capturing and defending are cool because they give fights another environement, another scenery.
As said above, objecitves are the core goal of this gamemode. Fighting for objectives reveals the true complexity of the gamemode as well as the creativity of the servers. This point unfortunatly got very much neglected by the “ez loot karma train faction”

A True WvW Player hates things that give a ridiculous advantage to the ennemy, (like arrowcarts or cannons.-)
I totally agree on the basic idea. You wanna have a fair fight. The example just isn’t chosen very well. In my eyes a “ridiculous advantage” would just mean that the attacker (or mostly the defender) can use tactics and spots that simply can not be countered. I personally can’t imagine many of those spots and I think that having hard to counter tactics again enforces creativity.

A True WvW Player doesn’t care about winning a Matchup, he cares about winning his fights.
Again a bit badly expressed. I’m just going to assume OP means that winning shouldn’t stand above everything else. Of course it’s your overall goal to win the matchup. But for what price? Is it a deserved victory if you just nightcap everything, upgrade it to t3 and hide behind 30ac’s all day long? I doubt it.
In my eyes, if you are a true WvW player you do it with passion.
A little example: You see that beautiful enemy t3 keep waiting for an epic fight. Are you going for it, challenging all of yours and your enemy skills, fighting hours and hours for the final victory and just neglecting your ppt for a few hours to show who got the bigger balls or are you just k-training a few hours for easy loot and better ppt? That’s your choice. And we know how people decided in the past. It has been like that on the old maps and it will be like that on the new maps. You can’t blame ANet for a boring experience if you don’t make it a good one yourself. And please don’t come with the reward agrument…you don’t really wanna tell me that after 3 years anyone is still playing WvW for rewards.
I admit that I love sfr for beeing a server that at least sometimes chooses to take the hard way just for the sweet victory.
Enemy blobs running away from you while outnumbering you 2v1 is more of a victory than the first spot in some imaginaty ranking.

A True WvW Player wants to get rewards by beating big amounts of players, not keep lords.
Say no to PvD and yes to fun!

A True WvW Player wants to have fun.

!

The boost also counts to WXP.

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

^

Just wondering who has actually been working on it since over a year when the WvW lead designer hasn’t worked in WvW since 8 months.

Well that explains the silence in this forum…

And it makes me really angry. Not because we are switching WvW designers like underpants and not becauseof the silcence in the WvW forums.
What makes me angry is that this is the last final proof that ArenaNet has changed for bad in the past years. So many good people who left or have been forced to leave since release.
What happened to the good old “when it’s done” ? Why can’t you just release the expansion 4 months later but make everything good?
I don’t care how long it takes or how complicated it is to make some meaningful WvW changes. I was defending you, because up to this point I had the hope that you were simply busy discussing and testing things internally.
And now? It has been 8 months without a lead designer and dear Mr. Colin dares to speak about WvW beeing the #1 priority now?
You Sir, you sold the good soul of this game and threw it away like a used tissue.

Today my last bit of hope for WvW died. I never believed I’d say that.

Rename “The wise one” to something neutral and I agree with you.
None of those are 100% right or 100% wrong (except ragers)

Personally I’m a dreaming, some sort of WvW player scout (who shall bend).

You should probably change the description of “he who shall bend”. I agree with it for the most part. But it’s rather learning to live with what you don’t like instead of starting to enjoy it.

PS: ANet dev is a nice one

Xenesis.6389:

Entenkommando.5208:

Lenardius.1098:

It needs to focus on large scale fights.

Has WvW ever been anything else? Definitely not roaming focused. And it’s by far not ANets problem if players decide to k-train instead of searching for fights.

It’s not the players fault they came up with the easy and efficient way to use them all with zerging.

Wait what? It’s not the players fault that the players are playing it the way the players are playing it?
I guess you misunderstood something. I never said I wanted WvW to be roaming focused. You basically strengthened my point.

All I want to say is: No matter what map they design you will have the 3 upgrade tiers. And it will obviously always be easier to cap t1 rather than t3. Which means that ANet can not do anything if you decide to go for easy t1 keeps instead of fighting for t3 keeps. But this also means that you can’t blame ANet for not seeing an enemy if you don’t want to attack their defended structures but decide to go ktrain all day long. So it is the players fault as a matter of fact.

Lenardius.1098:

It needs to focus on large scale fights.

Has WvW ever been anything else? Definitely not roaming focused. And it’s by far not ANets problem if players decide to k-train instead of searching for fights.

Imo the barricades are not needed with the bigger map size. You have to walk longer so there is no need to stop you.
It may be nice as a Guild upgrade if done cheep.

Reset day really doesn’t matter if you ask me. Who is even playing for ppt? I rather got the feeling that the dessert borders just start to become more populated during Friday k-train. Which doesn’t mean I wanna keep it forever but it’s a nice way for people to get to know the map.

I agree on the map changes. The Oasis event should be removed until it’s fixed. But at least scaling seemed OK for smaller groups from what I’ve heard.
Auto upgrades need to be changed. Increasing the timers and making dollys much more important shouldn’t take that much effort instead if disabling it.

Good change. Omegas are nothing for a 3 man party in my opinion.

Had a fun evening on Baruch Bay border fighting Vizunah guilds.
Que on ebg and 2 borders for Seafarer’s Rest.

Good to see that people are having fun again.

Catalin.5341:

The lag is incredible if blobs are fighting anywhere on the map..

What are those “blobs” you are talking about? Is it a new PvE event on the border?

If you don’t want to always join the winning team I’d recommend seafarers rest.
There are not so many people because bandwagoners left but you still get good quality fights with what is left, which is what I love about this server. You don’t always run away. Maybe when you are outnumbered 2v1 but many coms will even engage this one. You got nothing to lose right? But you can get them sweet baggies. Ofc we are also blobbing like any other server, but you can mostly expect a good player quality especially since there are only the old and experienced players left now and they are what makes this community so great. This is the 3rd time sfr goes down but loyal people stay with it.
And you have many guilds to join and fight with. It’s not all about blobs.

Bandwagoners kept the server on top and enforced blobs. But the heart of sfr has always been around guilds and quality over quantity. And yes, we do think we are better than everyone else so don’t be surprised You can’t do your best if you don’t think you are the best.

Just my personal experience here.

Actually I think it is something like a new beginning. Because they finally start working on the important things

I’d say it looked mostly like this: the game released on the 28th August 2012. In the first half year they had to make sure all the existing mechanics are working, created WXP, and fixed culling releasing March 2013. After that they reworked the map with ruins, releasing September 2013. Crossing timescale a bit they created eotm which surely took an insane amout of time, releasing February 2014. And from there on 1 year for the development of the dessert border for the hot announcement early this year and continued beta testing sounds fair. (I’m sure there have been many many alpha versions for new maps)

The new borders is how WvW will be like. Nothing will change about it overall until the next expansion probably. They still need to work on some gimmicks like the PvE events and maybe tweak some things like auto upgrades, but the general WvW will be what we see now.
So after 3 years there isn’t really any more needs for more content (ruins and eotm didn’t work out the best but were a good idea at least), they aren’t beeing pushed by the next expansion and can finally focus on the most complex problems like population balance, nightcap etc.

So yeah, I’m more optimistic than I’ve ever been before in terms of WvW.

Catalin.5341:

The WvW situation right now is basically this: you have k-train supporters, those who want more fights and some roamers. You have those who care about ppt and those who don’t.

There are 3 types of players that engage in the wvw mode: blobers, roamers and ppt/scouts.

My fault. Let’s replace k-trains with blobbers. I’m on sfr myself, and I prefer to fight in small organized groups but I think any of those playstyles is 100% legit. Even though blobs don’t have the best reputation. I don’t care if I fight 5v5, 10v10, 30v30 or 80v80 as long as it’s a fair fight. The difference is k-train with 80 guys.
You have to respect the different preferences and give everyone a fair chance to win their way.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Paying customers have right to complain.

My own full time work gets evaluated, lots of anonymous feedback is gathered and some of it is also negative, maybe even down right harsh. Arenanet developers should be able to handle the same.

Yes and no.
You pay for the product you get, not for what you want it to be. If you don’t like it you don’t need to pay for it.
And complaining doesn’t involve personal insults, but constructive feedback.

Your personal story basically desribes the current situation. Do you feel any duty to have a dialogue about the negative feedback? No. You gather it and try to improve it the way your company thinks is the best. And I assume you also don’t share any progress until it’s finished or at least ready to be shown.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The big problem of WvWvW is that Arenanet developers simply don’t know the game mode well enough. They also went too far with the changes. A lot of players complained about EotM, Skyhammer etc. What did Arenanet give us, more of that!!!

Agreed. But it is relatively easily possible to change these small things if they want.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Let’s compare with Counter Strike, Many of it’s map have remained more or less the same already for over a decade and people still flock to CS! Now imagine if the favorite CS maps would be removed and replaced with something different. CS gamers would be rightfully aggravated and beg to reinstate their old favorite maps and have simpler game mechanisms which favor player-vs-player, not pve.

You mean like they destroyed the beautiful GW1 PvP (which existed almost 8 years) for this so called “espoarts” thing that will never happen? I am angry about it, and will always be. But I’m still playing PvP and try to make the best out of it. And I manage to have fun as well. I didn’t fully boycot PvP and made 400 QQ threads in the forums. I told them I don’t like it, how it can be improved in my eyes and at some point it may be heard. But if the majority of players don’t think like that there is hardly something I can do about it. I also liked Courtyard because it had none of those stupid circles.
But I simply don’t see a point in raging around like that. I can try to have fun, if I don’t I give the feedback and if it doesn’t work at all I go and have fun somewhere else. I don’t want to spend all my free time crying about changes instead of simply having fun. Even if it’s in another game.

msalakka.4653:

Maybe the OP gets free gems for each of these garbage posts. It’s the only explanation.

That would be great since I’m always low on money as a WvW player

GROMIT.7829:

Not gonna lie but WvW is not a complex gametype and most certainly isn’t hard to fix if you actually pay attention to your community and put the effort in, funny how most other games can achieve a considerably better balance than this company.

What games are you referring to if I might ask? The only actual game which could be comparable is ESO. And we all know the stories…

So please tell me who does better or where from you know how complex WvW is if there are no real examples out there. Guess why Camelot Unchained takes an eternity to be finished – because it’s an insane amout of time you need to create an almost perfect huge scale PvP mode. Time developers of a casual MMO that are beeing pushed to a release simply don’t have.

Once again: I’m not very happy with WvW overall either. But I give my constructive feedback (which you don’t see on this account) and try to have fun with what is left until something changes. I don’t spend 12hrs per day spamming the same QQ over and over again in this section and threaten to leave Guild Wars 2 for months while still talking here all the time.
And neither would I get even close to the idea of insulting the people who delivered me 3 years and thousands of hours of fun in WvW for far less money than I would have payed for 99.9% of the games out there.

The WvW situation right now is basically this: you have k-train supporters, those who want more fights and some roamers. You have those who care about ppt and those who don’t.

Satisfying everyone requires an insanely complex system which keeps a balance of all these different playstyles, gives them equal importance, fixes nightcap, doesn’t make k-train too attractive yet keeps the rewards high enaugh, has many different rewards so that every playstyle gets enaugh, makes things hard enaugh so that it’s a challenge for big groups yet easy enaugh that low pop servers can achieve something but not too easy for very small roaming parties, gives smaller servers a working comeback system and keeps a good balance between attackers and defenders.
Or to sum it up: everything people have been asking for in the past.

But many people in these forums don’t understand that only picking the things that will encourage their playstyle and asking for updates on this only won’t “fix WvW” as every second thread nowadays claims. Building a system like this is an enormous project and making all these ideas work together takes a hell lot of time. Yes one could say they had 3 years until now and I guess they should just admit that their previous ideas didn’t work out very well. But you can’t deny they worked on something. I don’t know how many devs they have for WvW, but they don’t get payed for laughing at the forums even if it’s hard to believe for some of you.

Right now I’d say that since it’s mostly impossible to satisfy everyone it would be pretty much pointless to talk to the players about many (maybe besides 2-3) mechanics because it will always be 50% yes and 50% no. And now it’s pretty much guaranteed that one side would start insulting the devs for not doing what they want.
So instead they do as they think and give us all at least something to work with in the first place. I don’t say the maps are perfect, and they most likely imagined it very differently but it’s something to begin with. If ANet wouldn’t give us the content we’d always be discussing ideas instead of having something to work with.
They did some questionable descisions with this map but many of you agree that it’s mostly the small things like some useless PvE mechanics that keep us from playing and that it could be very possible to play there with some tweaks.

We did tell them what we don’t like about the new map (more or less friendly and constructive…) and now it’s their turn. But opening 20 new QQ threads every day repeating the same kitten over and over again won’t make them work faster or more motivated. Just imagine what it feels like to work on something and no matter what you do thousands of people will insult you and call you incompetent. Would you like to work with that in mind? Those devs that actually read the forums and recieve the insults probably don’t have influence on the design choices/priorites anyways. So just say something nice to them here and there.

And in the meantime just go play the map look for the positive things and tell the devs what you like, not only what you dislike. Everyone complains that the maps are empty. But nobody knows how they’d be played when full. And if everyone keeps thinking it’s pointless to join because the borders are empty they aren’t going to fill up. Find some friends on your enemy server for example, get some fights with them and test the new mechanics with them.

My guild is having 2-3 raids a week with ~10-15 guys and guess what-we have fun. And I know many people who like the new map. Not everyone abandoned WvW and cursed ANet after the HoT release.

Go ahead. Call me a white knight. Tell me that I have no idea, because you know everything 10x better.
Give constructive feedback and try to live with what we have right now or write your QQ threads threatening to leave WvW for ever bla bla bla. If you are not able to work in a constructive environment – there’s the door. Goodbye, this game doesn’t need you. And neither does this community.

Actually the general idea is quite fair.
Eotm is a wvw overflow. No que – > no eotm. Simple as that.

Besides the quite negative attitude towards anet I think one of the biggest factors is time.
Many problems that are being named take a very long time to be fixed properly.. Like nightcap, population issues etc. WvW is so complex that the devs can never know if what they are working on will be fine with all the other things together. They could say “we are working on this” and just not find the right solution for 2 years. Then everyone would freak out because the devs “promised” it. For every topic we have at least 10 different ideas from players in these forums. If they look here they have to code and test all these different approaches, and then 3 or 4 solutions for a single problem have to work together as well.
Nobody can foresee how long this will take. Unfortunately.
And ofc we don’t know how much work they did in the past at all.

Marxx.5748:

If it were the 200g and done, id be fine. But seruously, 5-10g for an upgrade to a camp that will likely get flipped soon and the upgrade lost anyhow is silly.

I agree this is in deed crazy.

To be fair 200g doesn’t sound that much if you have more than 5 guys in your guild.
Don’t foget that the guildhall upgrades aren’t meant to be completely done within 2 days. They are endgame progession. So it’s understandable that you are supposed to farm a bit for them.
Guild Halls in GW1 also cost a huge ton of money to upgrade so you had to farm a lot of money.

I can already see the reactions if they implemented auto loot:

“what do we want with auto loot if wvw is dead and we have nothing to loot? You got time for something like that but not to fix actual problems of this game mode "
Pretty much like that.

Seriously? This is what you are complaining about?
Many many many people cried that these nodes would just encourage PvE gathering instead of fighting. Tweaking those numbers surely didn’t take more than 5 minutes.

It really doesn’t matter what anet does. You will always be crying in the forums. Jump off the hate train kitten .

I think the new maps could be compared to good old IOS vs Android.

It used to be very simple and user friendly but once you get used to the new system you have many more possibilities to experience it the way you want. But more freedom also often mean more flaws you have to look at.

And the fight of old vs new borderland is using pretty much the same arguments we all know in a different form. But in the end there is not one answer to the question which is better. Some people like it simple and some want to have all the different choices.

And now we basically have eotm if you want it easy and dessert border if you like it complex, but more varied.

PrinceKhaled.5104:

I don’t care about maps, I just want the fights back!!!!!!
Bring the WvW community back…. wth!

If you want fights. Go out and fight!

Just pm the enemy commander and ask for some nice fights. The new map won’t hinder you.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Imagine a scenario where ANet hires a team of posters to systematically attack anyone who has an idea or posts anything of substance on the forums. They respond abrasively, use that person’s post history against them, and otherwise shut them down. Then a year or two down the road, the developer starts to ask why they never get communication from a community who abandoned the forums, they demand better communication so they can deliver a better product, and when a post finally comes through with some feedback, then bombard it into the ground again. They claim the players know nothing, but that they have to share their vision. They argue that they are providing a service for the players, and so the players are responsible for taking part in a discourse, even though their idea of discourse is less than appealing.

Wouldn’t that be the stupidest set of abusive, tyrannical circumstances you can imagine? So why exactly can consumers get away with it?

My last answer in this thread.

The recent posts have been the same QQ again or some very offtopic discussion. This is not what the thread was intended for, so if a moderator reads this please close my thread right here. It’s going nowhere.

It’s OK. The algorithm is flawless.

/s

The reason they didn’t do that is so that you can’t always choose the strategically best lines you need right now when there is a siege battle going on.

@archonwing
I guess you misunderstood something. I didn’t say anything about nightcap posts. Only that I’m happy to see that they actually see it as a problem to adress and not to work as intended.

I mostly agree on the other things. Especially the feedback part is very tricky.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

2) If they havent had time during original devlopment; if they havent have time after launch, if they havent have time after china release, if they havent hate much time during the expansion development, if they havent had time in the last 3 years; when will they ever have time for WvW?!

You cant just come after 3 years and say you didnt have time!
“it didn’t end up fitting into the scope of the expansion” means you didnt have time!
This excuse is totally unacceptable especially after the criticisms with the HoT release not giving much to veteran players! And now complaints that the story is too short.
What makes you think people will ever buy gems let alone another expansion in the future?!

As always we don’t discuss features in development until they are far enough along to share meaningful details,

You been saying this since launch! You cannot use the same excuse for 3 whole years!
In 3 years the only major thing we’ve got is this new map which most people hate because you apparently listened to us and then did the complete opposite!

I don’t know their work,but I guess it went about like this:
-gw2 release
-many things have been changed as we know
-need to rework and test the map with ruins
-eotm development took an eternity.
-after that I’m sure they have been working on the dessert map for at least 1.5 years.
-and partially things like new siege weapons and event weeks (no matter how they turned out cough)

So basically they have been developing maps during the 3 years. And you should know that this is extremely time consuming and requires hundreds or even thousands of hours of testing.

As I said I’m also not very happy with wvw development BUT the most important thing from this post is the information that they are working on things players requested. This may sound like it’s normal but I guess after all this time of silence many people believed that things like nightcap work the way they are intended.
And the negation of this makes me happy, because I can at least believe again that they are working on these very important things.
And of course we have no idea if they actually had enough employees for the amount of work you have to put in this game mode.
I am definitely a fanboy and we don’t know yet how things may turn out but only the news is already something imo.

But actually I don’t see a reason why they would not talk to players about things like the nightcap issue. It’s a very difficult problem and there are hundreds of ideas in the forum. I’d like to see a statement maybe once a month which tactics they tried to adress this issue and why they may not have worked. Then they can get feedback and maybe some other ideas from the community and we also constantly know that they are working on something but just can’t find the right solution, which is absolutely legit.
I don’t say that they have to talk about all new content they are trying but this could be a topic where discussion is very possible and important.

I definitely don’t say that I’m happy with the work until now, but what is different in this (maybe it’s just me) is that he actually calls problems players have been asking for and not just a general “we are working on it”
So we at least know that they are working on topics that have been very important for the last 3 years (and yes, they could have done it 3 years ago already… Stop living in the past guys) instead of working on entirely new stuff nobody ever asked for.