Guild Wars 2

Viking Jorun.5413:

I love how every stealth thread turns into a thief QQ thread. They DO have stealth removal traps that are EASY to place in combat.

have to be place at your feet, only have access to one, cost 10 resources, has casting time in which you are sitting ducks, and the animation can be seen by the enemy thief a mile away, cots gold. Meanwhile the thief can simply laugh off and how you noware standing still in the middle of nowhere with fear of walking out of that small line of reveal. He will snipe you away or simply wait off until you move, either way you lose, that, if he didnt kill you while you were trying to set up the trap.

Why do I have to waste resources, gold and time because of fear of stealth? Why cant thieves stealth cost resources, gold and time too?! See the problem now? It is imbalanced (no, stealth should cost gold resources or time, in case you didnt realize it was a rhetoric question and wanted to use it “agaisnt” me)

SoLeciTO.3490:

1.- Dungeons
2.- Meta SPVP
3.- WvW zergs
4.- Fractas
5.- JP

.

Goes to show how uniformed you are

1. Lies, my guild (450 people) always asks for thieves for Arah, for TA F/U path, CoF p2 (the gate, their single DPS provides the necessary damage to kill those stealthed mobs)

2. WHAT?! seriously, thieves are now getting a LOT of attention in sPvP, watch the tournaments, see how many of them there are in high rankings too, once again, very uniformed, you msu probably really suck.

3. Say what?! Their work is incredibly appreciated, killing stranglers, roamers, they go to the backlines and finish the squishiest and nobody can do anything about it, they are one of the most seen roamers in WvW, once again,invalid point, yo must really suck if you cant do that either.

4. wil give you that much, but thats more because they dont bring much to the team when it comes to team utility, but I have made some threads about giving thieves some PvE utility already they do need it.

5. WHAT?!?!?!?! Have you even been to EB JP?! Besides who the heck goes to a cht and says “need x class for JP” ?! Only mesmer for the portals i guess, but if you are really going for it then all other 7 classes need buffs too.

Please l2p your professions, thieves are in a REALLY good spot now

ezd.6359:

Fortus.6175:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

Just because you say so… Yes, it is another “OMG THIEVES OP NERF NAO” thread.

BTW. My main is mesmer. Thieves are my favorite targets. Especially berserkers. They die faster than they can realize what happened.

then you realize that In this game mesmer and guardians are the only ones able to stand a chance. I play mesmer too and I create her specifically to deal with thieves, why? Because while I dont feel cheap using stealth I believe mesmer are a balanced duelist. If you know their mechanics you can deal with them, but thieves, you can know it all, play them inside out and still come out dead.

Thieves and mesmer are a display of skills; a good thief will not die to a mesmer and viceversa, try playing anything but mesmer or guardian vs an skilled thief and tell me how that goes.

Banono.4597:

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Exactly This^

@OP, how would you balance thieves if you gut their main mechanic?

All I hear from these threads is “Nerf stealth!” but what about people who play thieves? Should we just be the squishy red headed step children of the game?

easy, realize that you are not so special and you like every class in the game have balance issues, your been the most blatantly broken one.

Ahh, I still remember the days in which you thieves were complaining that the “revealed” would break the class, that know you cant use D/D #5 and then backstabd repeatedly and kill your target, many of you said “I QUIT WAAHHHH” “THIEF IS BEYOND BROKEN NOW” and here we are, still months since that and thieves are strong as always. If nerfs would come your way Im sure the same story would repeat, so I wouldnt be surprised.

You think you have it bad? Try playing staff ele, or try playing thousands of other innefective weapon/class combos in the game, then look at your thief and see how succeessful they are and how often you see them in high ranking sPvP, WvW, tPvP and even on the esport ANet is trying to put out in vane.

You think we should pitty you? Please, grow some and realize your class is strong, too strong. The only thing holding them back from being godlike is their lack of team utility in PvE and personally I love having thieves on Arah for skipping trash mobs. So no, your class is actually one of Anets favorite.

ezd.6359:

Another anti thief QQ thread? We have many threads about stealth already.

Fortus.6175:

This isnt about any specific class, just stealth in general and those few classes that have it.

there, answered your question.

Excalibur.9748:

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

no, 10.5k to 11k hp is full zerker, if you dont believe me then go ahead, be my guess and create a ele and put on Beserker, but dont do it on the one in PvP, there the zerker gem has vitality on it, in PvE is only power/pres/crit, the closer you can get to that is valkyrie on PvP, wil give you 10.5khp flat. Also, I remind you that only acces had PVT and only some of them, the rest had valkiry since PVT adds nothing to my damage output and I do need damage coming from somewhere.

Evans.6347:

Meh, My Norn doesn’t either.
Maybe it’s profession based? My Charr warrior does, my Norn ranger doesn’t. Nor does my Sylvari mesmer. My Human guardian does again.

Perhaps only heavies do. I really don’t know.

My female sylvari does it, my male doesnt. I have seen people do it on both, thats whats bothering me

Update:

After speaking with some guild mates, they have told me their norn and sylvaris do take the sword on their shoudelrs, It seems im bugged, how could I solve this?

I tried Norn, sylvari, human is the only one that works, but I really want it on sylvari. I have seen sylvaris doing it but I cant do it.

I have equip/unequip keybound, same for walking, yet all my character does is hold the sword like a stick and walk with his arms poiting down.

Help please?!

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

They can be bought. What is impressive when you know that?

A) buyer has a lot of money ($$) and doesnt mind spending it here, which means he is either
.. i) Rich
.. ii) Pathetic
.. ii) Pathetically rich

B) Buyer has a lot of time in his hands, enough to farm all that gold. If they had the time to put into making that much gold Im sure they could have made the legendary in half that time.

Either way impressive (for good or for bad)

Edit: You dont realize this, but eeryone is buying legendaries (those who are making one) , the only difference is that you are buying it by pieces instead of already done. Most people dont gather all t6 mats, all ectos, get the precursors. The difference is buying convinience. You either buy the flour, eggs, sugar or buy the whole cake.

I will start:

I used to get impressed by it, specially Sunrise and Twilight, 11 month into the game I still do, but I have seen so many lately that i guess that feeling wears off a bit.

I dont think there is much reputation to it other than giving you a tittle of; “RNG Blessed Child” since most mats come from extreme luck, same for precursors.

Im going for the looks really, I play staff ele but sadly I dont like the Bifrost rainbow feeling for the most part, at least not as much as compared to Kudzu or the GS series, which personally I feel like the creater gave their all on GS, made TWO of them , each amazing of its own, then gave up on every other skin (’cept Kudzu and Bifrost to an extent) Right Now Im rolling a guardian just to wear Sunrise.

Making it harder or easier wouldnt matter too much to me, been 11 months into making one and even if I were to be given a precursor for free today Im not even half way there to making one, so thats mylong term goal. After all, Im going for the looks really, since I think most people dont care about legendaries that much.

I do apreciate the effects for the GS, also I appreciate the effort of somepeople, someone in my guild has 2 legendary daggers and a sunrise, working on his bifrost as we speak.

EDIT: After some thought I think the general consensus is making the item account bound on creation, allowing it to be shared among several characters but not sellable in TP, or add it as a withdrawable skin (like the Zenith series)

Simple question really, do seeing a person with a legendary make you go like; “Ohhh!”, are you indifferent, or another reaction?

Is there any reputation on getting one?

Would you go for it for the reputation or for the looks?

If it became harder/easier would you appreciate it more/less?

If you do appreciate something from legendaries or its users, what is it?

Burnfall.9573:

Rushing to Conclusion make the result worthless; especially to those who blindly missed what the OP Main statements are.

Once More

And Again,

I’ll Mention 1 of them

“ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK”

How many Sincere Thieves Agree with that?

If to sum all the “QQ’rs”..

Designing a class/Prof. with no Risk Factors’ whatsoever is suicidal for class balance.

Let me put this in a Realistic example..

A. Thief with HeavyBody Armor/Perma-Stealth— equipped with Machine Gun
B. Any Class without any Body Armor— equipped with a Handgun

Dueling 1vs1

Who has a Risk Factor of dying quick?

Anyone?

So Please!

Don’t tell me that it’s the other classes fault for not winning the quick death draw dual match.

Than after what?

You Put Blame on the Other Classes for not ’Learning or Out-Smarting the theif"

How can you?

Where is the Possiblitlies?

Any Child can tell you who has the advantage and will always have the advantage (no-matter what) without using any of thier brains.

Than why many here can’t figure this out using their full brains?

(This is to me how i compare theives with other classes)..

So

‘I call out for full-Nerf in the Name Of Class Balance (Remove Perma-Stealth, Reduce all Stats including abilities, traits, skills and weapon skills’ all across board by 30%.. and make 5 second more,,, stealths, counterable to all attacks and Remove Exploits from Stealthing from objects.

THis is prety much the whole point of this thread. The risk factor for thieves is just not there. There is nothing to counter because you can see anything cant do anything about it. All other classes/skills take casting time, they are telegraphed, usually there is more than one way of countering it, but thieves, all you have is spray and pray it hits them or run away, or waste 3 90 secs CD to sruvive 5 seconds longer before they repeat the burst. That is not balance.

Esplen.3940:

Target Nearest Enemy, Targest Next Enemy. Target Previous Enemy are all bind-able.

Also, it’s best to avoid the Alt key in general, as preventing Alt+Tab involves using the Registry.

Yes but they all require different keys, and besides that doesnt solve the miniom cluster problem since most pets stand in front of the controller anyways.

As for the alt key I was wondering if there was some ad or macro or something I cold use to prevent that, I have configurated the entire left part of the keyboard in such a way that I need to use Alt key or I would be wasting its convinience.

I dont think it would be hard, just to add an option that I cant alt tab if there isnt a solution that lets me bypass this and does not involve ignoring the potential of alt

I have my dodge on alt, sometimes I dodge and try to tab my next target and BAM, im looking at my music media player while the enemy is pounding on a harmless plant golem. Is there a way to [checkbox] to turn that option off? I window my way out anyways always but everynow and thne I alt tab without wanting.

On a similar note, can we have a tab targerting option that allows me to target players only? Its really hard to find your enemy among 13 pets in PvP just to have a mini tiny asura (purposely made the smallest possible) standing among them, it makes the game mechanically bad.

Atherakhia.4086:

Arheundel.6451:

They stated already that not all weapon sets can be viable in PvP, ele staff is one of them, you should just give up on staff and move on

Staves for Elementalists.
Bows for Rangers.
Swords for Warriors.
Shields for Guardians.

You know the iconic weapons for these classes… don’t expect them to work and you should be happy about it!

Just like bows for rangers, staff just needs a little burst to help put pressure down. Doesn’t need to be the focus of the weapon, but some burst wouldn’t hurt.

+1

Pretty much, I keep repeating this, but iconic weapons draw newer players and keep old players who like them, if you deny them that then you will fail at PvP as an esport.

I want to play staff, I cant imagine Gandalf running at the orks with D/D. I want to play sword/shield guardian, but focus (a wood weapon) does better job at this..

Im giving suggestions on how to fix this, right now staff is REALLY underwhelming, I want it working. Even if people keep telling me to move on, Im going to keep making myself get heard until it gets fixed

This would NOT replace the current traits, only add another layer. Also Im all in for attunement switching, so I dont plant to have this to make only one element the “main”, just want to emphasize an element above the others. Just want to remind everyone that while if the ele were to have all this at the same time, I agree it would be op, but we DO have limited amount of skills points and can only get one OR the other. This would bring us more in par with guardians and mesmers who can completely change their playstyle based on traits and equipments, whereas eles dont change that much regardless of what you pick, really.

Before I begin, I want to comment that my knowledge is heavily based upon Staff, therefore the changes Im about to propose are 100% staff related, 0% everything else. Though Im sure someone can find a way to improve the other weapons (focus…sigh) I want to focus on the DPS and Support aspect of Staff.

Another comment, keep in mind that this is about the 5, 15 and 25 points on each tree and how we can make each elementalist feel “specialized” in the element(s) they so choose, the description for each would say something along the lines:

1#1 -Element- spells are improved, tier: I, II, III (for 5,15,25 respectively)

Why? Because right now I feel that staff needs something, and because I believe many traits cut too much into people builds, I want to build my elementalist and feel Im a “Fire” elementalist, or a “Water” elementalist, or a “Hybrid Arcane/Earth” elementalist.

Final warning, some of these changes might need adjustments, but overall I think they would bring what staff and traits for ele so desperately need. Btw, Arcane VIII Blasting staff IS deleted and included for staff as baseline radius.
.
.
.

FIRE

1. T1: Increase radius of AoE by 5%, damage by 5%
   fire #3 Damage coefficient on arcane spell level, always crit.

1. T2 Increase radius of AoE by 5%, damage by 5% (additive to previous)
   fire #2 first tick doubles in damage, 20% increase damage.
   fire #3 removes 3 boons on enemy cast and those affected in the radius (a must!)
   fire #4 Breaks roots and CD lowered by 20%
   fire #5 Increased damage 10%

1. T3 Increase radius of AoE by 10%, damage by 10%(additive to previous, everything below adds to T2)
   fire #2 Duration extended 1 second, first tick is instant (no casting time). 20% Increased damage
   fire #3 Knocks back intended target away from caster, nearby targets are blasted away from primary target
   fire #4 Breaks stuns, CD lowered 10% further
   fire #5 Meteors Knockdown(stun) targets for 1 sec, increased damage 10%

WATER

1. T1: Increase AoE radius by 5%, healing by 10%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius by 5%, healing by 10%
   water #1 chills for 1 sec on enemy cast.
   water #2 “detonation” time lowered in half
   water #5 increased healing

1. T3: Increase AoE radius by 10%, healing by 20%
   water #4 Instant cast, after 1 second, targets standing on it become encase in a block of ice for 3 seconds. Cant be broken with stunbreaker, if they take more than 1/3 their hp it breaks, enemy damage(cant crit) breaks the block too.
   water #5 Gains an active, strong healing, like water #3.

WIND

1. T1: Increase AoE radius 5%, critical damage 5%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius 5%, critical damage 5%
   Air #1 4 bounces, faster
   Air #2 25% increased damage
   Air #3 PBAoE 600 radius knockback, 3/4 casting time, CD 30 secs
   Air #4 Breaks stuns, 1 second invulnerability, CD 40 secs

1. T3, Increase AoE radius 10%, critical damage 10%
   Air #1 5 Bounces, faster
   Air #2 25% increase damage
   Air #3 PBAoE 900 radius knockback, 1/2 casting time, CD 20 secs
   Air #4 5 seconds stealth, 1 extra second invulnerability, CD 30 secs

EARTH

1. T1: Increase AoE radius 5%, condition damage(or duration) 5%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius 5%, condition damage (or duration) 5%
   Earth #1 Chance for bleed or torment
   Earth #2 Option to double tap skill to detonate earlier
   Earth #3 2 extra second deflect
   Earth #4 Applies torment (3 stacks)

1. T3: Increase AoE radius 10%, condition damage (or duration) 10%
   Earth #3 4 seconds of invulnerability (poor focus)
   Earth #4 Applies a 2 seconds root first time an enemy goes through.

ARCANE

Run out of ideas, maybe something along the lines of

t2 or maybe t3 provide a 3 second aura with NO CD everytime you attune in an element.

Though this might seem highly OP, I remind you we have limited amount of trait points and you would only have 2 maxed out of none, depending on your likings, so its impossible to have all this on all the elements. It will make support staff do wll, CC staff do well, and AoE or single target DPS staff do well, while not getting to enjoy the other things from the other elements.

Arcane projectile x2 fast, targets under 66% hp 25% increase damage, <33% 50% damage.
Thoughts, improvements?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Fortus.6175:

Viking Jorun.5413:

This is why thieves keep getting nerfed. I’m tired of it. You can all complain about how “OP” thieves are, but in reality you don’t understand them. When I tell you to learn to play one to learn to beat one, I mean it. We don’t need anymore of these “thief OP nerf plz omg” threads. Our name as thieves is already soiled by people who play the class solely for the stupid high burst damage, and every nerf to backstab thieves is a nerf to every other thief build. Please learn to play a thief before you make your next post about us in this forum.

Tired of it,
~Kid Legacy, Team Legacy [TL]

EDIT: Balance is an illusion. Zacchary.6183, a fellow thief made an excellent post not a few days ago describing the difference between true imbalance and cyclical imbalance. It really is a matter of L2P. Get over it.

ALSO: Your screenshot shows the result of combat over 1 minute, not 1 second.

" WAHHHHH I cant stand the thought of my class getting balanced!!" Face it, they do their job of kill too darn well, too well, uncouterably well. Its not fun to fight them, even if they were to be “balanced”, which they arent.

At the “ALSO”, were you droped as a…….ahh forget it. Look at the time, there is such as a thing called CLOCK KEEPS GOING, the gith happened at the end of 7:00, hence why it goes all the way to 7:01, if you look closer at the CD of the shield and look it up, loo at the current time on the mini you will see that it says 7:02, you make the math, 75 secs CD on the shield and used it right before the backstab wich is when he went into stealth for 1 sec

That doesn’t mean that the thief did it in less than 1 second. I highly doubt that he was at full health when he was attacked by the thief. A smart backstab thief never goes after an enemy with full health (unless they’re up leveled) just as a lion never goes after a fully-grown gazelle. It goes after the injured and the young. We only see a small portion of the combat log, and judging by his claim to be wearing PTV, I’d say that he had just stepped away from his zerg while a roaming thief was picking off stragglers and injured. Just because a thief can burst you down doesn’t mean they’re OP. A warrior can deal 33k damage with 100 Blades and combined with a stun lock there’s nothing you can do about it. Nobody ever says, “OMG WARRIORS OP.” There’s plenty you can do about a backstab thief. Learn it.

Wrong, was full health, off CD, we were doing a 7vs7 fight, fight had started at our doors, he came in, did cloack, stealth, backstab and HS, stealth stomp, moved away, as simple as that, no extra fights, no nothing, just that, there was an ele attacking me as well and which was my target, I had just moved into his range, as you can probably see from the stray 1k lightings. The major offendor was thief, plain and simple.

Wolfheart.1938:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Also I don’t s/t-pvp, but from what I’ve read they don’t exist in the higher tiers.

Nah they exist and are in a good spot I’d say. The recent EU qualifiers had plenty of them.

yeah, people will believe anything that is convinient to them. To all those who think there arent thieves in high tiers, bother to watch some of those games, play yourself sPvP and you will see how much they actually are in there. Stop tinking they suck, there is a reason they are so strong in PvP, an d thats because they are too effective at killing even in 2v2 and 3v3 scenarios.

Viking Jorun.5413:

This is why thieves keep getting nerfed. I’m tired of it. You can all complain about how “OP” thieves are, but in reality you don’t understand them. When I tell you to learn to play one to learn to beat one, I mean it. We don’t need anymore of these “thief OP nerf plz omg” threads. Our name as thieves is already soiled by people who play the class solely for the stupid high burst damage, and every nerf to backstab thieves is a nerf to every other thief build. Please learn to play a thief before you make your next post about us in this forum.

Tired of it,
~Kid Legacy, Team Legacy [TL]

EDIT: Balance is an illusion. Zacchary.6183, a fellow thief made an excellent post not a few days ago describing the difference between true imbalance and cyclical imbalance. It really is a matter of L2P. Get over it.

ALSO: Your screenshot shows the result of combat over 1 minute, not 1 second.

" WAHHHHH I cant stand the thought of my class getting balanced!!" Face it, they do their job of kill too darn well, too well, uncouterably well. Its not fun to fight them, even if they were to be “balanced”, which they arent.

At the “ALSO”, were you droped as a…….ahh forget it. Look at the time, there is such as a thing called CLOCK KEEPS GOING, the fight happened at the end of 7:00, hence why it goes all the way to 7:01, if you look closer at the CD of the shield and look it up, look at the current time on the mini you will see that it says 7:02, you make the math, 75 secs CD on the shield and used it right before the backstab wich is when he went into stealth for 1 sec

The game’s PvP is poorly balanced, period.

Thieves are the mayor offenders, most of the “counterplays” Im giving are general and rely on the thief making a mistake, implying that you would have to play perfectly and wait for an enemy mistake to have a fighting chance, that is a flawed logic right there. True balance is achieved when skills level are the same, regardless of whether high or low the out come of the battle is decided by good plays, forcing the enemy to make a “mistake”, having an equal chance of retaliation for both parties.

Right now I think most thieves have learned not to deviate too much from this near fool-proof strategy;

8 9 1 222 6, if; target not dead: 1 222, 8 if out of CD, 5 if enough initiative.

Im sorry, but thats dumb. Move the damage awa from backstab onto other skills, have HS have a internal CD of 1 sec, backstab have a internal CD of 15-20 secs

sirflamesword.3896:

If he does that when you are wearing a couple of pieces of PVT gear(or a few points into toughness traitline) then you can come on here and whine about it, till then no one should really care.

really, just really? Did you even bother to read the OP?

There should be an option to delete this stuff, why do people bother to post things without reading first?!

silvermember.8941:

The proper way to react is to use mist form not that shield or you will die.

Cant attack using the mist form, cant heal using mist form, cant use regular skills using it, it has been nerfed to the ground, right now in WvW you use it for gfetting into keeps, because while it gives you an effective 3 seconds of invul it also makes you completely worthless for 3 secs and only delay your imminent death since you did nothing to help yourself

silvermember.8941:

Next go to ele forum and ask for help about how to fight paper thieves aka berserker thieves. Finally, how can u only have 12k with ptv armor?

Please, I ask of you and everyone else who keeps posting without fully reading;
READ, kitten , PVT accs and weapon, rest in zerker because I need the DPS to come from somewhere.
And no thank on the ele forums we are also fed up with thieves, we know they are OP and we are trying to make that change, bother to check it every now and then and stop laying thieves and you will see why we complain.

silvermember.8941:

Also the fact that you let him attack you fast enough to burn through your shield says more about you than than the balance.

Yah, please tell me more about how Backstab and HS have internal cooldowns…..

sirflamesword.3896:

Then why are you even posting? A thief did the only thing he can do, he ganked you.

How about this? he can also cap points, follow in a zerg, secure objectives, scout, give mass stealth to an entire party, carry resources, carry resources without been seeing.

“all he can do is gank” Wrong, just wrong. He can do jsut about everything everyone else can, minus sieging walls in WvW, but then again, only a couple of classes can do it anyways, so this is not a big deal.

All I ask is a fair chance for fighting back, but right now you HAVE to go in zerg because fear of thieves (no, there arent a few of them, they are freaking everywhere, they have quite the amount in WvW, and all thanks to the uncounterable stealth which gives them perma safety) because seen one is sure-death if you arent a guardian or have stealth.

No, this is porly designed and I will keep complaining until it gets fixed, this is the mayor deterrent in WvW and sPvP for people, along with having to not only deal with death but the fee of having to repair your euipment

Dog.1472:

L2P,

Oh look, another “l2p” reply, because having a game where you have skills so telegraphed that even a cripple grandma can get out of it before it goes off is ok (ALL of staff skills, seriously, you can see them coming a mile away) but we have skill that are LITERALLY uncouterable such as backstabs that leave you near dead and that is if you are at full health, cuz it it hits you anywhere below 70-80% hp you are a as dead as a possum on a expressway, the other one being stealth, which I dont know if you have ever bothered to sue the"traps" in WvW but they take time setting down, resources and are aline at your feet, so no, this is NOT a coutnerplay.

In PvP in the same deal. Im sorry but I will judge that you are a thief player (and if you arent then you play them quite often). I hav played thief myself, I felt disgusted and deleted it as soon as I realized poorly balanced it is

sirflamesword.3896:

Sorry but it is completely impossible to be using PTVitality armor and only have 12.5k health…even for an ele.

read, only the acc and weapons, some of them valk though, nonetheless, 12.5k hp DOES have PVT on it, if you dont believe me make one yourself, they have 10.5k hp base.

Edit: Well, this got moved to the Thief forum, where only thieves who believe their class is Underpowered and totally fine will come and bash and give me “advise” on how I failed to swing my weapon to the air and spam all my AoE and put it in CD in the hope that one tick will tickle their hp similar to mine in which case I have no skill that could put out 8k of damage to counter his 8k backstabds and 6-7k HS, while resseting the fights at will.

How in the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k. EDIT: 10.5khp for berzerker, we have the lowest hp pool in the game, have I been full zerker I would have literally died in one hit, with zerker I get hit with 11k backtabs all the time.

Either you need to reworkout the whole hp from eles or move the damage from backstab to something that ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK, right now it is incredibly dumb how they can pop out of stealth, kill you in literally less than a sec with Backstab HS HS and there is no counter to this unless you have stealth of your own or have aegis to save your butt.

I used arcane shield, it blocked two attacks, none revealed the thief, he kjust backed away until it disappeared, so no, thats not the counter, a good counter would be IF IT REVEALED THEM , but NOOooooo, we cant have a thief having to do any thinking on enemies CD, he could’ve ignored the shield anyways, the damage isnt enough to kill him if it explodes anyways.

EDIT Wow people, do you mind if you read before you post? You guys just assumed all I said was “wahh wahh thief OP nerf damage”. All I said is they need some countering, some counterplay, its pretty stupid they are the only class with access to the most uncounterable mechanic, been able to spam it and get the hardest hitting spell in the game which not even aegis can save you from.
But its ok, i guess at the end of the day we all just gotta roll guardians and mesmers.

Picts related

covenn.7165:

No… just no. Too many reasons why for me to list them.

Well, thanks for such a detailed and thoughout reasoning, after such argument I have no choice but to submit to your view.

[/sarcasm]

Anyways, I want to also make sure to say this;

This would only apply to the weapon, every time you have equiped a different weapon, the bonuses would change, for example D/D would have different bonuses to scepter and so on. The changes wouldnt appear on the traits themselves but rather on the weapons, think of it as an….evolution.

Mesmers and guardians have sooooo different playstyles depending on their traits, they make or break a build. With eles, regardless of your traits, most of the gameplay remains the same, there is little to no customization, specially sinc e HAVE to go 20 arcane (at least) for blasting staff VIII, and most people have to get arcane regardless for unnecessarily long recharge rates.

Before I begin, I want to comment that my knowledge is heavily based upon Staff, therefore the changes Im about to propose are 100% staff related, 0% everything else. Though Im sure someone can find a way to improve the other weapons (focus…sigh) I want to focus on the DPS and Support aspect of Staff.

Another comment, keep in mind that this is about the 5, 15 and 25 points on each tree and how we can make each elementalist feel “specialized” in the element(s) they so choose, the description for each would say something along the lines:

1#1 -Element- spells are improved, tier: I, II, III (for 5,15,25 respectively)

Why? Because right now I feel that staff needs something, and because I believe many traits cut too much into people builds, I want to build my elementalist and feel Im a “Fire” elementalist, or a “Water” elementalist, or a “Hybrid Arcane/Earth” elementalist.

Final warning, some of these changes might need adjustments, but overall I think they would bring what staff and traits for ele so desperately need. Btw, Arcane VIII Blasting staff IS deleted and included for staff as baseline radius.
.
.
.

FIRE

1. T1: Increase radius of AoE by 5%, damage by 5%
   fire #3 Damage coefficient on arcane spell level, always crit.

1. T2 Increase radius of AoE by 5%, damage by 5% (additive to previous)
   fire #2 first tick doubles in damage, 20% increase damage.
   fire #3 removes 3 boons on enemy cast and those affected in the radius (a must!)
   fire #4 Breaks roots and CD lowered by 20%
   fire #5 Increased damage 10%

1. T3 Increase radius of AoE by 10%, damage by 10%(additive to previous, everything below adds to T2)
   fire #2 Duration extended 1 second, first tick is instant (no casting time). 20% Increased damage
   fire #3 Knocks back intended target away from caster, nearby targets are blasted away from primary target
   fire #4 Breaks stuns, CD lowered 10% further
   fire #5 Meteors Knockdown(stun) targets for 1 sec, increased damage 10%

WATER

1. T1: Increase AoE radius by 5%, healing by 10%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius by 5%, healing by 10%
   water #1 chills for 1 sec on enemy cast.
   water #2 “detonation” time lowered in half
   water #5 increased healing

1. T3: Increase AoE radius by 10%, healing by 20%
   water #4 Instant cast, after 1 second, targets standing on it become encase in a block of ice for 3 seconds. Cant be broken with stunbreaker, if they take more than 1/3 their hp it breaks, enemy damage(cant crit) breaks the block too.
   water #5 Gains an active, strong healing, like water #3.

WIND

1. T1: Increase AoE radius 5%, critical damage 5%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius 5%, critical damage 5%
   Air #1 4 bounces, faster
   Air #2 25% increased damage
   Air #3 PBAoE 600 radius knockback, 3/4 casting time, CD 30 secs
   Air #4 Breaks stuns, 1 second invulnerability, CD 40 secs

1. T3, Increase AoE radius 10%, critical damage 10%
   Air #1 5 Bounces, faster
   Air #2 25% increase damage
   Air #3 PBAoE 900 radius knockback, 1/2 casting time, CD 20 secs
   Air #4 5 seconds stealth, 1 extra second invulnerability, CD 30 secs

EARTH

1. T1: Increase AoE radius 5%, condition damage(or duration) 5%

1. T2: Increase AoE radius 5%, condition damage (or duration) 5%
   Earth #1 Chance for bleed or torment
   Earth #2 Option to double tap skill to detonate earlier
   Earth #3 2 extra second deflect
   Earth #4 Applies torment (3 stacks)

1. T3: Increase AoE radius 10%, condition damage (or duration) 10%
   Earth #3 4 seconds of invulnerability (poor focus)
   Earth #4 Applies a 2 seconds root first time an enemy goes through.

ARCANE

Run out of ideas, maybe something along the lines of

t2 or maybe t3 provide a 3 second aura with NO CD everytime you attune in an element.

Though this might seem highly OP, I remind you we have limited amount of trait points and you would only have 2 maxed out of none, depending on your likings, so its impossible to have all this on all the elements. It will make support staff do wll, CC staff do well, and AoE or single target DPS staff do well, while not getting to enjoy the other things from the other elements.

Arcane projectile x2 fast, targets under 66% hp 25% increase damage, <33% 50% damage.
Thoughts, improvements?

ilr.9675:

There’s already been a thread about this in Dungeon forums (where it belongs).

Or you could do what I did and never step foot in that ugly vegan hell again.
(COE is a lot more rewarding and Arah a lot more interesting)

believe me, i would, but Im trying to get my AP from the dungeons and I need all paths to get that hobby achievement, 200 AP is no joke, after that for all I care the can erase that crappy place

Im conviced this is bugged. The design is flawed. Either Anet didnt play test this or it is bugged, this is beyond impossible, neds fixing ASAP, I want to get my dungeon runner.

Ok, we brought plenty of guardians with wal of reflection, we standed on the back, we cleared as many spiders as well could with AoE staff ele and frozen bow, but the darn thing is near impossible.

Please Anet, could you do some tweaking so that it is doable? Or can I get some advices on how to from those who have done it with the recent changes?!

EDIT: Ok, after countless tries with different groups Im CONVICED this is bugged. the amount of spiders that spawn is beyond unimaginable, they have high Hp, by the time youkill the first 2 bunchs the others already spawned, and im not talking aout 1 min, im talking about less than 15 seconds FULLY spawning, you DPS them down, byt he time you are done with them the tree healed over and the other bunch spawned again. Anet please playtest your stuff, this is IMPOSSIBLE

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Since I carry an invis bag anyway, (and really, why wouldn’t you?)

are you aware of how much it costs a 20 slot invi bag? No, 8 does not cut it, I have way too many things and I need plenty of space. And no, I dont have only one toon, I have plenty. And no, I wont craft one because I donthav the crafting for that one, and if I were to level it up in the end it would be cheaper to just buy it than to start leveling the crafting from scratch AND then buy all the necessary mats.

If you dont want to find banking then fine, thats your own laziness, but dont push that laziness onto others. Most people dont carry more than 3-4 minis anyways. They have to be like instruments and that sort of things, only that you can deposite them ONLY when you drag them to the deposit bank

CobaltSixty.1542:

This is just another thinly veiled complain thread about Guardian shield and focus skills from Fortus because the last thread was moved out of the general discussion forum.

oh hey look! thanks for the bump! Yeah, this is a thread to get some things improved, in this case shield, staff and anything else that players feel underwhelming.

Last one did get moved but Im glad it got moved, I got some nice feedback on the guardian forum. Im now trying to see if we can get a recollection of underwhelming things in game. In my case shield fits here, same for staff, but not, this is not about that solely, nor a complain. But like I said, bumps are always welcomed!

Erasculio.2914:

Fortus.6175:

For example, you wouldnt expect a thief to not have stealth, and to come out of the ground with a bucket full of worms and flowers. It doesnt fit them, right? Exactly, iconic thing for thieves is; stealth, mobility, daggers, hit and run, high damage.

In other words, the rogue stereotype is of a class using stealth, and so people assume all variations of them need to use it. Meanwhile, the rogue profession of the original Guild Wars, assassins, did not have stealth.

Do you know what’s the stereotype (or, I guess, the “iconic thing”) for MMORPGs? “Kill ten rats” quests while using the Holy Trinity. I guess we should complain about how ArenaNet is doing something different over there too, now?

Fortus.6175:

-sigh- again someone had to bring Wow, because apparently THEY were the ones to set the standard for modern fantasy, right?

It appears to be so. After all, we have people saying…

Fortus.6175:

Another one would be DPS staff for eles, you would think a “mage” archetype would be dangerous with its iconic weapon(…) I have yet to imagine Gandalf running at the orks with two daggers….

…Obviously without actually reading “The Lord of the Rings”. If they had read it, they would have noticed how Gandalf used a sword for combat considerably more often than a staff, and how said staff wasn’t used for throwing fireballs or any of the other concepts commonly linked to the “mage” archetype. In fact, the battle in the book between two mages used words as weapons, not any of the stereotypical “fantasy mage” effect.

I read it, yes, he used a sword, yes, yet most of the “magical” things happened with the staff, hence the “mage” thing.

I didnt play Gw1, so I cant judge the classes there, but it seems they learned from their “mistake” with their rogue archetype and added stealth on this game (think about that)

There is no denying, if they want to “click” with old gamers and new ones they will need to fill in some of those things that many of us are looking, there is no point trying to change me now, if I like sword/shield as a defender thing, if I dont get my fill, eventually, when a game comes with the same quality as GW2 but that fill that niche feeling then people will start migrating, has happened, thats how many MMos die.

Im not saying Anet have to catter to EVERY NEED out there but I think the “defender” archetype is iconic enough to make it a very desirable thing, if you dont believe me, check the amount guardians you already have ingame, playing with shield , attempting, trying with their hardest to make it work, only to give it up.

Conncept.7638:

The faults of the ele staff has nothing to do with ‘iconism’, in my opinion, using it looks and feels like a traditional mage. But the idea behind that is blowing opponents apart enemies from a distance with really powerful spells, ‘powerful’ being the operative word, which the staff really is not. It’s spells are more easily avoided than any other set of weapon skills in the game, have longer cooldowns, and receive no bonus in power to balance out those disadvantages.

yeah, I guess you were able to say it better than I did anyways. Pretty much this, staff ele being my main and pretty much the only thing I play, I have realized, after giving other DPS classes, how much they are lacking on “power” even if they do land most things, let alone when the enemies get out walking (yes, literally walking away from it, no need to dodge, thats just sad) out of it with no more than a tickle on their bellies.

Erasculio.2914:

Fortus.6175:

What are those things you think could get some tweakings?

The main tweak necessary is in the players’ head. “Iconic weapon” in this context actually means “I want ArenaNet to follow all fantasy stereotypes and so I’m going to complain until the weapons do exactly what I think they should do”.

Guardian’s shield is a group support tool, focus works for self defense. I couldn’t care less if someone thinks Guardians are “paladins” (WoW is over there ->) who should use shield for self defense. Same with Elementalists and staves – daggers are more damage focused, staves are more suited for utility, and that’s working rather nicely as it is. No need to change how those weapons work due to a player’s narrow point of view.

-sigh- again someone had to bring Wow, because apparently THEY were the ones to set the standard for modern fantasy, right? Look, I understand many of you young gamers have only experienced WoW as your first MMO and have set your standards, but for us old gamers some archetypes have existed as long as roleplaying has existed. Some of those archetypes are; stealthy assassins, mages, healers, warriors, armored knight, archer. etc..

Look, I guess it is up to player’s liking, but personally (and a lot of peers have agreed with me on this one) there are certain “iconic things” that should not be disturbed too much.

For example, you wouldnt expect a thief to not have stealth, and to come out of the ground with a bucket full of worms and flowers. It doesnt fit them, right? Exactly, iconic thing for thieves is; stealth, mobility, daggers, hit and run, high damage. Was this achieved? Yes.

Ranger with a long bow able to do nasty damage, having a pet to aid you. Was this achieved? Yes (arguably, they could use some tweakings to pets Ai in PVE but other than that they do just fine)

Well, for guardian you would expect a guy with a shield to run in front of you, protecting you from whatever mayhem coming your way. Yet, shield #5 does achieve this, to certain extend, but shield #4?! You have to be facing your allies to get the best of it, yet if you are standing in from of the team you would have to turn away from the action, cast and sacrifice the damage. That, there, is counterproducive and something you would NOT expect of a shield in a protector archetype.

As for mage, it goes back to the youngest of all roleplaying and such, if you see a staff mage of any sort, you RUN, or you kill him before they can kill you. Go build damage sPvP staff and tell me how its goes.

Basically that, what are the weapons or skills which you would consider “iconic” of a profession and how could you improve it?

For me it is the shield for Guardians, i find it that sword/shield has always been the iconic weapon for knight n shiny armor, yet shield #4 feels sooooooo underwhelming, makes me wonder why focus #5 (a wood weapon….lol) does a better job at defending than a “shield”.

Another one would be DPS staff for eles, you would think a “mage” archetype would be dangerous with its iconic weapon, yet it is probably the most iinefective ranged weapon in the game outside wall sieging in WvW, in sPvP is a free kill or a bunker, at which point they contribute almost nothing, even a D/D out do them in support and damage. I have yet to imagine Gandalf running at the orks with two daggers….

What are those things you think could get some tweakings?

dovrak.4376:

Fortus.6175:

Zenith.7301:

Jesiah.2457:

If thieves had the benefits upon stealthing that mesmers do, then I’d be open to discuss how overpowered stealth is for thieves.

I find it amusing that Mesmers were mentioned as being done right, when they have extreme burst damage that AOE’s, plenty of stealths / target drop / where the hell is the mesmer now, mechanics, and huge uptime on regeneration, protection, and plenty of reapplications to the above including aegis, specced right. And this hardly gimps their damage.

If thieves had something similar … then I’d think stealth was actually somewhat problematic, but they don’t.

Yeah, because stealth every 32 seconds and every 90 seconds is soooooooo OP!

^ exactly this. Mesmer have access to it but very limited access.

This is not true at all.. decoy, torch offhand, mass invi, veil.. plus prismatic understanding, they have lot of stealth uptime if they want.

They can have “a lot” of stealth, so what? It isnt as much as thieves, but who cares about that, the bigget problem is; you suddenly get stealth, and what can yu do with it?! Nothing. Thats right, you just wasted utilities and used near borderline useless weapons for extra stealth but cant do anything with it because you lack the thing that make stealth on thieves possible; the 6-8k backstab in sPvP or 8-10k backstab on WvW everytime you get out of stealth.

The fact that not even blocking nor evading the attack reveal them it ensures that it is a guaranteed backstab everytime.

Please, this isnt too muh about stealth, for all I care you can give stealth to everyone, but make it have a backdraw, specially make it punish missing a backstab, backstab is literally uncounterable and has absolutely no counterplay whatsoever!, there is no risk for a thief who is only going for the spikes, no “risks” he have to calculate, it is just mindless back stab after backstab and HS HS HS

Morrigan.2809:

I can’t do it either but that is because I seem completely unable to find the entrance 0_0.

I did look on you tube and I have found only one video that starts from the shore but the guy in the video has his graphics so low that it looks completely different in my game
After swimming around for over an hour the other night fighting off krait every step I gave up- it’s the closest I’ve been to rage quitting yet

The lower your settings to match his and voila!

at OP; check your PMs

Playing since release, have down most JP, map completition, most of the Living story, and still wondering how in the world can there be so many people with 9k AP…

im never going to get those shoulder pads T_T

Played a LOT of Korean style MMOs, mostly liked hybrid classes and shiny equipments, so I ended up playing dr*id in W*w.

At some point I started watching videos about best MMOs, and one of them was GW vs W*w, so I watched it and learned about GW, but also heard in the video about GW2 coming soon, so decided not to play GW until GW2 came out.

That was a year or more before the actual release, after watrching countless videos of GW2 and folowing every. single. step. of. the. way. I started playing since release, open Beta.

thanks, i guess i will have to make an event in the guild for that achievement.

That achievement is at 0, I thought the ones in Orr counted (from the old karma train back when it existed). Anyone knows?

How do I attain it?! I know the shoulder could* be the AP rewards, but the rest, how?! Please!!

Zenith.7301:

Jesiah.2457:

If thieves had the benefits upon stealthing that mesmers do, then I’d be open to discuss how overpowered stealth is for thieves.

I find it amusing that Mesmers were mentioned as being done right, when they have extreme burst damage that AOE’s, plenty of stealths / target drop / where the hell is the mesmer now, mechanics, and huge uptime on regeneration, protection, and plenty of reapplications to the above including aegis, specced right. And this hardly gimps their damage.

If thieves had something similar … then I’d think stealth was actually somewhat problematic, but they don’t.

Yeah, because stealth every 32 seconds and every 90 seconds is soooooooo OP!

^ exactly this. Mesmer have access to it but very limited access. They cant come out with 8k backstabs either every 2 seconds. Sure mesmers are strong, but their strenght is on confusing foes, but more often than not I can tell which one is the real; the one casting skills, moving, dodging, changing weapons, the one low in hp. besides, AoE actually counters them, because you can see by just one tick which one is real and which one isnt by how much health you take away, not to say most clones die with 2-3 ticks, and retaliation makes this so much better.

In teamfights mesmers can get punished, whereas thieves have the liberty to completely pick their fights, get in and out on command, while still spiking their intended target.

Too many benefices unless you have a fully coordinated 5 man team with plenty of practice to be able to deal with this. Vast majority of the plaers dont do this, let alone solo queue and chat-based 5 man teams

Chase.8415:

I play Elementalist, Guardian, Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer.

And who are these people stating that thieves are overpowered? Because I know a LOT of people in the top 1000 and I have never heard of such thing.

It is not fair to us top players to have a class nerfed simply because people are just bad at playing.

Ok, i didnt want to bring this, but since you self-called yourself a “top player” I had to do this to bring you down from your biased cloud;

you are not in the top 100, not top 150, nor top 200, nor top 250, not even top 350. Yes I took the time and effort to look you up, sorry you are not there, therefore you are not a

Chase.8415:

It is not fair to us top players

With that out of the table, I will bring the next point, you, like most of the people in the game play multiple classes, congratulations. I myself have played thieves plenty of time and I wholeheartly agree with what everyone who is agaisnt stealth is this thread is saying.

Dont bother to look me up, if anything look from the bottom up, I have never stated Im a pro, if anythign Im a semi hardcore casual who plays mostly 5v5 solo queue hotjoins and tournaments, like the vast majority of the people in the game.

Its ok to have bias, you are only human, but dont try to back yourself up with thinking you are the “best out there, everyone else sucks” mentality.

Truth of the matter is; stealth is one of the main reason people avoid PvP, and while the top1% of the game doesnt consider it a problem, everyone below that ladder that doesnt play thief does consider it a problem , whether it is real or conceived. Even if it wasnt a “problem” and it were to be perfectly balanced now, nobody likes it, nobody finds it fun but the thief. A game is to have fun, if the vast majority does not have fun, they wont play.

Marketing 101; create stuff people want, not “force” them to see it is the right thing

Shalentei.8061:

sorry for hte dumb question but a thief would be conssidered fotm? (new player game patching as i type)

easy to learn, hard to master, worth it for sure. Right now they offer little counterplay so they are quite safe to play. Of course, like any class, you will require some knowledge of other classes, but if you want to play without dying much and while killing almost everyone, then thief is your class.

The other one that is relatively easy to pick up is mesmer

But as far as FoTM is concerned, necro is t now, conditions are out of control and necros are the biggest issue on it