Guild Wars 2

Yah they are totally underwhelming and not popular in PvP.

IMO thats a bug that has gone under the radar for too long and/or they don’t know how to fix it properly, thats why they stay quiet about it, if anything it only says about the quality of balance in this game lol.

Imagine if weapon swap was affected by chill? Not fun right, it would break a lot of classes…..yet it is allowed on eles.

Silverthorn.8576:

Reapers are hard counter by ele since start but there still are players crying about it /facepalm

Actually it is the way around lol…..ever since DS butcher nerf necromancers pray on eles the hardest, since most ele boons are passively given to him and his allies, and chill is the ultimate counter to eles, from element swapping (hopefully a bug, that somehow has bypassed Anet’s attention for 3 years and a half) to outright destroying their rotations, damage, low hp pools and limited mobility, which happen to be the only defense they have.

Now it is only worse. Also, necros are not as defenseless as some people make them out to be. It is pretty hard to kill me as a necro when I have got 2 health bars, except when I get 2+….which lets be honest, except for scrapper/druid, most classes would be destroyed too.

I noticed that taking a small break and letting everyone play and climb before you usually means you will catch up right away in a winstreak. Last season I went fromDdiamond tier 2 to Legendary in a day, like 19 wins only 3 loses or so after taking a week long break.

This season I went from amber to emerald in 1 day with only 1 loss, didnt play until this Sunday, meaning the bottom of the barrel is left. Just take breaks, if you have any skills you will able to climb no problem.

They are certainly cancer but I have seen so few of them lately that my enjoyment of the PvP game has only gone up, same with scrappers and druids. But then again I only restarted playing ranked this weekend, like 8 games or so which only took me to emerald, I suppose as I keep going up I will see more and more of them.

I’m just glad to see so few tanky/condi overloading speccs, seems like fights are snappier and faster…. I’m kinda scared to catch up to the higher divisions again…..

I was wondering, wouldn’t it be great if we got a /say command but for teammates only, since nobody really sees /team in the heat of moment, and sometimes you need a speech bubble to appear on top of you, like when your team mates wont leave the base thinking they can cap bases faster with 2+ people (yup, those exist lol).

That or make /team appear as bubbles on top of character in ranked.

Thanks

Some people cant get over themselves and realize the irony of their statements, such as “eles were viable/ok/OP last meta so they deserve their non-viability now”…. you dont want balance, you want revenge. The only thing that does is drive people away, one class at a time. I know my 2 friends who mained warriors since release stopped playing Pvp after HoT altogether.

@OP:

I have over 4k PvP games, have recruited 5 irl friends as well as 2 family members, help managed a 100+ active members guild before, have 52% of my PvP games with ele, been playing since release almost non-stop and have nearly 5k hours sunk into this game, 2 legendaries (as well as a hefty amount $$ too….. dont even wanna count..). I was one of the first people to come to the forums to ask for DS nerf when the league started, because as a critical person I recognized it wasn’t healthy for the game.

I feel your pain, I have been very committed to the game too. I have, however, taken breaks before, usually 2-3 months long, longest was 6 months. Right now I too am very disappointed at Anet, and specially the community who doesnt see that they are shooting themselves in the foot if all they seek is revenge rather than a state resembling balance. I too I’m taking a break, playing Blade and Soul which happen to have quite the amazing combat and so far doesn’t seem [as] unbalanced. I logged in just to reply to you. Lets hope Anet learns at some point, so far it only took them 3 years and a half to buff shatterstone on scepter, Im sure that by 2021 we might have a working shatterstone weapon outside staff or daggers.

kuritsutian.2987:

I really don’t see the importance of “Being in the Meta” thing … as long as you can play propperly your class and do what you intent to do, who cares what the rest of people do with your class.

Well lets see, imagine you work 40 hours a week, in an office, and every 2 weeks you get paid lets say $100 for argument’s sake. You are pretty happy with it, you can pay all bills with it and what not.

Now, the rent went up and the food bill went up and the gas also went up (powercreep).

Your salary is reduced to $80 instead of $100.

You find out that your coworkers who were also making $100, now make $120.

You confront your boss about it, but he tells you:

CLUELESSGUY.2987:

I really don’t see the importance of “Being paid the same” thing … as long as you can propperly work and do what you intent to do, who cares what the rest of people make as their salary?

Would you really be ok with it?

sephiroth.4217:

XxsdgxX.8109:

1000% what SchmendrickTheMagician said:

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Was that a “The Last Unicorn” reference?

If so, my mind has been blown that someone else has even heard of this film.

Thats a quote of George Santayana, 1863-1952

And not to mention how they deleted eles too lol

Alekt.5803:

Earth 4 needs to keep it skillful component, so I do not agree with that change.

I do not agree with the gust change either. A line of air seemed reasonable.

Earth 3 should send condition away instead of granting resistance.

Air 5. The static charges could be an extra tick of damage upon being struck while inside the field, though, I would be careful when adding too much stuff.

Pick one : Either improve usability of the Ice Spike and Eruption, or improve usability of auto-attacks.

Agree with the air 5 too, will update it. As far as auto attacks, I think it should be baseline for all clases to have a decent AA, look at revs and now thieves, or scepter necro. As far as water 2 and earth 2 they need some polishing and the proposed changes would be good, at the aftercast part.

Yah I stole a couple of your ideas and decided to post them on the ele forum.

Now, where a dev will even look at that forum thats a different story, but a man can hope.

I think most of us can agree that after the patch, our [known] dependance of celestial shows ours inherent weaknesses. I dont want to dwell too much on the specific but the damage/defense ratio isnt there, so instead I would like to propose some changes that could help the class be brought up in line with other professions;

I think it is no secret that there was a power creep with the expansion, so these changes would fit in line with the changes to other classes.

These are suggestions on how to improve the staff skills, not all of them should be included, please discuss how to improve said suggestions and why. I know this doesnt solve the defense issues with the class, but at least it could help polish one of the best designed and fun to play with weapon in the game!

> Fire 1: Casting speed and projectile needs to be increased, reduce aftercast. (restore visuals, please). Reduce damage to compensate but make it have same DPS as before, just more attacks and the ability to actually land them on someone.

> Fire 2: Damage needs to be instant, reduce after cast, feels clunky and only catches AFK people.

>Fire 3: Make it cast a “bomb” that would explode after 2 seconds (like rev’s sword 1 third aa from chain), damage scales at 50% hp, 25%, a “finisher”.

>Fire 4: Skill is mostly ok, but perhaps it should have a functionality similar to shiro’s retreat, or at least make it be a stunbreaker or remove all movement impairements on self.

>Fire 5: Mostly ok, could use larger meteorite AoE radius, but this one is perhaps the best one out of all.

Water 1: Higher projectile speed. Base healing less, much higher scaling.

Water 2: After cast needs to be reduced, by a lot. Needs to drop faster, blast finisher, same damage but increase CD.

Water 3: Higher healing scaling, same base heal.

Water 4: Needs to last 2 seconds longer for combos.

Water 5: Condi cleanse every 1 second. (as with guardian’s smite changes, condi cleanse needs to keep up with condi reapplication)

Air 1: increase projectile speed. Less after cast. If it hits a single target, higher damage (like rev sword 2).

Air 2: Finisher effect to it, 50% hp, 25% hp. Reduce CD by 2 seconds.

Air 3: Revamp functionality; make it so that everyone in a large cone (90-120 degree) is blown out. Reduce distance to 900 units.

Air 4: Remove slow

Air 5: People inside cage receives a “static charge” damage per second inside, nothing crazy, something like fire 2 damage would be ok. UPDATE: damage inside would only tick once per second per attacker, with a medium amount of damage (350 base, .7 scaling?)

Earth 1: Increase projectile speed and aftercast.

Earth 2: Decrease after cast. new functionality like mesmer’s curtain. After 1 second, you can detonate for less damage.

Earth 3: Copies 3 conditions on you to nearby enemies or grants 2 seconds of resistance.

Earth 4: Enemies blown into it are immediately knocked down.

Earth 5: Reduce bleed duration to 6 seconds from 20, make it be 4 stacks. Increase projectile speed and decrease after cast.

Staff should be more about chaining skills, and less about waiting for clunky aftercasts to end so that you can cast the next skill that will be strafed.

Traits suggestions:

Fire: Blinding Ashes need ICD back to 5, and it needs to be a per-target

As far as other trait changes, I will be talking with people and see what other suggestions we can come up with.

Alekt.5803:

I observe that Elementalists are dependant on their offensive trait lines to commit into a damaging role. This works for Staff and Scepter I believe. For staff, which I know perfectly well, the damage option available is Lightning Rod. Don’t expect to deal damage with Lava Font, Eruption or Ice Spike and auto-attacks since players move out of these.

The difficulty to deal upfront damage, at least with staff, always forced elementalist into a supportive role. Supportive roles on staff did not have this issue because the kit is good at that: water fields, AoE crowd-control abilities. The supportive abilities always concealed the major flaws in that weapon set.

There are a few quality of life and improvements to do for staff. Some cooldowns are too long for the power of the abilities. Some skills feel empty and have high cooldowns (Frozen Ground, Windborne Speed, Gust, Magnetic Aura).

Here is a few solutions that may be implimented.

1. Lava Font: Immediate first tick of damage instead of a 1 second delay.
2. Windborne Speed: Make it cleanse Slow; remove the cast time; reduce the cooldown by 5 seconds.
3. Gust: Reduce the cooldown; Improve velocity and width of the skill; increase the duration of the crowd control. Allow targets pushed toward Unsteady Ground to be knocked down upon contact of the line as it does for Static Field.
4. Lightning Surge: Reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds from 10 seconds to better match the cooldown with Fresh Air. Cast time feels rewarding as it is.
5. Ice Spike: Is it too much to ask for a Blast Finisher?
6. Frozen Ground: Increase duration to 6 seconds, up from 5 seconds to allow more time for Eruption to blast on the field.
7. Healing Rain: Reduce cast time to 3/4 seconds down from 1.5 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 40 seconds from 45 seconds.
8. Magnetic Aura: Reduce cooldown to 25 seconds from 30. Send one condition back to foes in a 300 radius upon casting.
9. Shockwave: Reduction cooldown to 20 seconds, down from 30 seconds. Greatly reduce the aftercast to allow continuous casting after casting Shockwave. Improve the power ratio of the ability. Change the bleeding stacks to 3 from 1 while reducing the duration to 8 seconds, down from 20.
10. Unsteady Ground: Allow targets pushed toward Unsteady Ground to be knocked down upon contact of the line.

Another big issue with the Elementalist is that the old premise of “having many weapons skill that are doing less than other classes weapon skill” is not unique anymore. Just look at Revenants who never runs out of cooldowns when it cycles through abilities. This could be adjusted by giving a few more utilities to spells.

These are actually great suggestions.

I would add though:

> Water 2 , lower casting time or have it drop down faster
>Air 2, casting time is fine, just need to have a “finisher” feel to it, like reaper form 5, and reduce CD to 8 instead of 5 as suggested by you.
> Fire 2 needs a bigger radius or to have less after cast.
> Earth 2 should have an option to be “detonated” after 1 second (like mesmer curtain), and if not detonated, it will detonate as per usual.

reikken.4961:

It wasn’t ok before. It isn’t ok now.

Honestly, this, people!

There were plenty of us ele mains saying that DS was broken, we were asking for ways to make the trait not be totally binary, we existed. I can even dig up the threads about it I made.

Nobody here is asking for X class to be OP and Y class to be UP, revert it next patch adn repeat the cycle.

I think we all can agree that there should be a middle ground, where all classes should be, even if not completely in equal standing (which will never happen) to at least be not day and night states of balance.

How is this so hard to understand?

MyPuppy.8970:

I dont agree. We can adapt. Sure we can’t bunker anymore, but we can still support & kill. Our best defense is now offense. We still have some good survivability traits. Don’t give up.

Let hope, man. I have been trying back with damage staff build. Luckily my skills and knowledge in the class helps me a lot, but I can tell that baseline, Im inherently weaker than them, and if I were to face someone with my skill level on the same classes Im facing, then elementalist would simply lose that one, straight up.

I foresee a very grim future for eles, and I hope Im proven wrong tbh, because we already went through this for almost half of the time the game has been out and I would hate to go through it again.

I wish Anet realized that when people are happy with the balance, they care more about the mode. LoL didnt reach success by being left alone for months without constant patches every 2 weeks. They did what any respectable esport would’ve done; balance their skritt out! I still believe in the potential of the game, hopefully it will be better to watch now, but for us player who wont switch classes like underwear, it is a sad state to be in.

There is a lot of money in succeeding in esport, LoL made 1.6 billions dollars of revenue only in microtranscation last year, not counting sponsorship, tickets to games, etc etc. If Anet decided to invest in a proper balance team, i dont see why they wouldnt make a break through and be the first MMO with a loyal esport base.

Right now? very far from it.

Agemnon.4608:

Didn’t they stack four elementalists a couple of seasons ago? And people say that ele is a dead class lol!

Strawman argument right there, people! So basically let me get this right, you are saying that in a time before HoT hit, eles were [rightly] OP, but somehow, after HoT hitting, and literally removing the only thing that made eles viable, while buffing everyone else, that the class is not dead?

Do you not see the poor logic in your argument?! A LOT has changed since the 4 eles meta…. how is that an argument to how poor the state of eles are?!

So just because we had a bunker mesmer meta a while ago that means in this patch they are not dead?!

honestly…..

Keadron.9570:

Anet has a thread for people to post about the patch
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/January-26th-Update-Your-feedback

Lets be honest, thats just a placebo, so that all ours “complaints” can go in one place they can ignore while making us feel like we had a chance at voicing our opinions, it is basic standard procedure. We do it at the place we work too all the time. Unless you have money (and thus actual influence) and are a direct client who has some personal connection of any sort to any one in administration, we simply are encouraged to throw any of the “suggestions” and “feedback” down the drain, heck, our little “forum” website which is fairly active is commonly know in the office as the “black pits of hell” and even management tells us not to visit it unless we are into getting headaches. So yeah….

@topic: while I do agree DS was broken (made a couple of threads about it and was hoping we would find a better middle ground), and that celestial needed to be deleted, I think Anet did not follow up with the class and do some proper rebalancing. The class has very few defensive skills (that arent on a 60+ CD, and even then they all have huge trade off for them)and rely on boons for survival. Now we are facing constant boon convertion on top of little to no defensive and offensive capabilities. The scepter “buff” felt like an insult, really. At this point one starts to wonder if this is being done on purpose, as if some sort of vendetta towards us. I would like to believe not, and rather that the balance team is unexperience (after 3 years and a half to get it right…)and simply dont know how to determine what really is the core issues of the class.
Anyways, I just disappointed, I expected more from them, but given their history of expectation vs reality, I should’ve known better than assuming the changes in the preview werent pretty much all the intended ones. Simply disappointing.

Foggy.9213:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Necro’s

well lmao!! I’m laughing but deep down Im crying.

Silverkey.2078:

The most typical difference between EU and NA in a “balanced” meta is that EU has mesmers and NA has necros. All other classes are rather even between both regions.

So this finale will be obviously NA >> EU

Sad but this is true.

So far class > skill, as proven by the skilless mesmer/rev meta we just had, and the emerging reaper/thief/scrapper meta.

This is pointless, really. I tend to play staff ele, even if Im hitting little, if the enemy has a minion necro or they group up, I will be doing more damage than say a power revenant, yet, in terms of effective damage, the rev will be doing more towards killing people than I would (as demonstrated by the fact that power revs are demolishing soloQ and meanwhile eles are bottom tier)

With that being said, Im pretty sure i’ve been averaging 600k damage as staff tempest and 450k with condi reaper in most games.

Keadron.9570:

It could also be the ele is just fun to play. That’s why I use it On the other hand ele spent a year being completely useless everywhere
PS the classes who are just out for revenge will be the ones to gloat and say thing like ele crying

Spiteful people. Nobody likes to be objective it would seem. " Eles have been out of the meta the least" BS, just pure BS, thieves are the ones. Nobody seems to remember the time were Eles were out of the meta completely for over a year and a half, back when the ICD on cleansing waters, or when they were out for ~4 months when they buffed thieves/mesmers to OP levels…. the game have been out for 3 years and a half…that means we have been out of the meta almost have half of the time has existed…. and now we might be for a while, yet again.

Im a multiclasser, with focus on ele/guardian, but it saddens me that people refuse to get on other people’s shoes to see how it is like for them.

Good for thieves, they got some buffs, spoiled little brats… they are out of the meta for a few months and all their combined whining and pouting gets them a place back because I guess they were very vocal about it (and personally, I person who likes to steal, back stab, deceive, enrage other people tells me a lot of their personality and how rotten they might be deep down if they enjoy that so…).

Oh well, we will see, only time will tell. For the time being, I too will be vocal and obnoxious until the devs give in too us too.

Browrain.7346:

I don’t feel bad for eles after that longggg d/d cele meta and how strong tempest was for a whole season.

This is what’s wrong with people, exactly this!

Basically they just want revenge, as simple as that.

Thieves were in the meta from release until HoT, that is THREE YEARS, they are not in meta for three months and they whine and pout like crybabys, Anet gives in.

Eles were useless for a YEAR AND A HALF , with absolutely 0 representation in any ESL team for an entire season, yet we get the shaft once again, by Anet, and the community that only wants revenge.

Timston.1976:

Did you already post this. I just saw this yesterday. Please no duplicate posts.

Maybe someone else posted it? Im pretty sure all ele players are remembering this again since it is relevant once again, after all, we were useless for over a year (a LOT less than thieves, however, I guess we didnt whine and pout as much as they did hence why we werent heard)

LastHope.8127:

Fortus.6175:

Sunshine.5014:

Thank you! Please keep monitoring.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people don’t play seriously anymore. They also run a lot of weird builds. That may or may not effect your match making.

This.

I have yet to run any build that isn’t too far off the meta, but I know plenty of people who are running them, specially in groups. In fact, I came across 2 full premades of 5 that were mostly trying out new builds, including, for both of them, 2 fresh air eles (which were, as expected, totally UP and blew in 2 seconds without accomplishing much).

Im sure this will skew the data, perhaps we should give it more time for the meta to settle a bit?

Auramancer ele is a far far far way from meta builds since patch mate. (I know the meta hasn’t settled yet)

That wasnt an auramancer, that was actually a mercenary build I was trying out, Water/Air/Tempest with soldier runes for some condi cleansing. Like I said, Im not deviating too much from meta, I just dropped earth for air (in the metabuild website that was actually a suggestion lol) and tried to adapt with a different amulet for damage. So far it isnt that bad, but it is a sad state indeed.

Warning, this might get you ‘banned’, watch at your own risk.

disclaimer: I didnt do this, also ,this video is from 2012, yet, still relevant.

Sunshine.5014:

Thank you! Please keep monitoring.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people don’t play seriously anymore. They also run a lot of weird builds. That may or may not effect your match making.

This.

I have yet to run any build that isn’t too far off the meta, but I know plenty of people who are running them, specially in groups. In fact, I came across 2 full premades of 5 that were mostly trying out new builds, including, for both of them, 2 fresh air eles (which were, as expected, totally UP and blew in 2 seconds without accomplishing much).

Im sure this will skew the data, perhaps we should give it more time for the meta to settle a bit?

Kirk.3086:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Kirk.3086:

Melt for 5 seconds. Reaper/thief/enj can survive much longer. Rev just die from 10 stacks of bleeding/poison.
How rev make dmg, if he dead all time against any clever foe?
Or gold rule “dead can’t dmging” there doesn’t work?

Bahahaha thieves last more than 5 Seconds? With those conditions thieves melt, thy have no sustain. So I have no idea what your talking about yes thieves can disengage but they rely on bursting classes down not sitting and fighting. Engines and reapers have sustain and can fight, Reapers also virtually hard counter Revenant so there’s that.

2 against 1. Enj can clean condy, reaper too fat. How far you can away from thief under chilling and crippled? Not so much away.
I will write 3 times for you – i don;t to;d about 1 by 1? cos there no at pvp. 3 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 – easy, but not 1 by 1, only at low tiers…
Rev can be easy focused and die first at any fight, cos he has lower survivability. Only herald save sutiation with 3 unvinerabilities, but he is still to weak to condy or to dmg (power/consy rev)

kirk, man, dont take this wrong, Im sure English isn’t your native language (it is mine either) but could you rewrite that? I’m having a hard time following your point . ~

I have been experiencing the opposite of this.

Most premades I have come across have been blow outs in both ways, in their favor or agaisnt. The queue times were 5 mins average, and I was consistently paired with premades as a soloQ.

Perhaps I had a small sample size, but I felt I was fighting a lot less soloQers now than before.

Rolisteel.1375:

Fortus.6175:

So far, based on testing and asking PvP guildies it seems we mostly agree on the following;

S tier – Condi Reaper, Daredevil, Power Scrapper, Power Rev

A Tier – Power Druid, DH, Condi Rev

B Tier (this one is more variable) – Berserker (some of them say they are crap), Power Reaper, Shout Druid.

Z Tier – Tempest, Chrono.

So you played some hot join testing and think this list is accurate? What it’s accurate for? non competitive zergfest where people just spamm buttons and don’t think. 1v1 or competitive teamplay?

I dont play hot join lol. It is accurate for conquest and only for the ranked maps, not for running orb or hammer map. I can see these builds taking over soon, or maybe not, maybe someone will find something more broken and we will have the next stagnant meta for the following 3 months.

I currently play PvP with other experienced people who have 1k+ PvP games (I have 4k+, near 5k), most of them diamond/legendary. We aren’t just your PvE lords or WvW warriors; we actually take PvP seriously, for some of us we are PvP mains.

So far, based on testing and asking PvP guildies it seems we mostly agree on the following;

S tier – Condi Reaper, Daredevil, Power Scrapper, Power Rev

A Tier – Power Druid, DH, Condi Rev

B Tier (this one is more variable) – Berserker (some of them say they are crap), Power Reaper, Shout Druid.

Z Tier – Tempest, Chrono.

I have to agree, even when bunkers were rampant, power scrapper was still on is prime, only being held back by bunkers, but now that they are gone …oh boy!

In my opinion what needs to be hit is not the defense part, what bothers me is that all the traits I have to go for are defensive and yet I deal a crap load of damage, that is whats is wrong. If I specc defense, I shouldn’t be hitting that much, otherwise we have the old D/D cele. Lower base damage, keep scaling (or lower it a little bit more if needed).

I find it sad that people here are defending the poor state of eles.

In the MMR Im playing Im constantly facing ESL team players such as Adjured and Apex, I’ve got over 4k PvP games, which 52% of them are only elementalist in my belt since release, which means I have both experience and the MMR to back some of my statements when I say: elementalist are in a very poor state right now. Their entire play is arounds boons and active defenses, and right now a fear or two followed by the condi loading and boon convertions is enough to A) get you off the fight for a few seconds until you can heal back up (and hope they dont come after you) , or b) simply die. Well played thieves just demolish us (nothing new) as well in a few seconds.

I highly advice you to talk with some skilled players to get a better perspective on the class, because if thats the build you are playing, which has little synergy and a lot of glaring weaknesses (boon spam is a weakness now), then I can guarantee you that you are in a very low MMR bracket.

Personally I found cele druid to be the most obnoxious, so i decided to play it…. boy…was it strong?! Went from tier 3 Diamond to Legend in literally 1 day; easy, OP and effective.

I like that people die quickly, but I dont like that fights usually last 4-5 seconds.

I would prefer some middle ground where you could see more than 1 rotation of 3-4 skills, right now the game is too volatile, and CC and condis spam are rampant. We will see once the meta settle.

Minus mobility and sustain yes. I have been having some fun with the old carrion frostfire necro now with mercenary, seems a little bit overtuned indeed in terms of damage, specially since ele DS is gone and now everyone is a little bit more squishy.

We would have to see, but right now off the top of my head these speccs might need some looking into in respect to damage/survavility ratio:

-Power rev (shiro/herald)
-Power scrapper
-Mercenary signet necro

Under-tuned I would say:

-Eles in general, they seem to blow in 3 seconds flat, even with the tankier options, all that while doing less than decent damage
- Shatter mesmers seem to blow to condis quickly, while not doing a whole lot of damage.

I havent seen many good thieves but so far they seem to be on a whole lot better spot now that things can actually die and they can perma reset fights at will. I have seen them harass eles and necros alike like no tomorrow, so maybe that will keep necros at bay(?). All I know is that eles might need some help if things continue this way.

Everyone is experimenting new builds, some work, most dont. There is total chaos, soon enough people will discover the best combinations, and things will settle in, stagnate if you must…. for the next 3 months or so. So for the time being, this chaos “feels good” in a sense.

Problem with MMR is that, the game is not balanced at all around you, but rather 5 people in a team, and certain meta/broken can inflate your MMR until they are nerfed and thus creating a very volatile MMR that is no measure of your skills.

Soon enough you will have people checking someone’s MMR and posting it on the forums to use it in their arguments even if it is completely unrelated. Like LoL where they can look up your rank and thus dismiss anything that person can say.

First I would rather have the classes being balanced, that way your MMR is more reflective of your actual skills.

(Why? Simple, druid carried me through all of diamond directly to legendary in a day from tier 2, a class I barely played, by doing basically button smashing. I would not see many rangers outside daily in diamond/ruby, however, when I got to legendary, there were 3+ druids per match….meaning that other people also knew it was a broken and easy build)

Silverkey.2078:

Or at least do not commit to 1 patch every 4 month and instead implement small scale changes regularly.

Quite honestly, I expected a patch this size to be something done on a 2-3 week schedule, not 3 months……

Literally, the changes are so trivial in most cases, that I cant see why it would take THREE WHOLE MONTHS to come up with them……

Do they not have enough metrics? Is it is so hard to implement? Are they simply being lazy? Are they so out of touch with their own game? Do they have any experience in balancing, or are they just programmers who were shunned into this?

What is going on?!

Is it even slightly sad that I expected more from the Devs? Eles got butchered in this patch, the only amulet that allowed them to have a place after 1 year of total uselessness got removed, exposing their glaring weaknesses even more, and now their apex predator, thief, has been buffed beyond recognition….yet again.

I foresee another year of non-existent eles, and i expect very little pity from anyone who got affected by D/D cele and cele tempest (which, as an Ele main I agree were broken) since they probably just want revenge.

I think it takes a lot of courage to admit your favorite class was broken, and while i see plenty of eles admitting it, I think I have never seen a thief admit it, no matter how obvious it is.

Oh well, lets give it time and see how everything plays out, Im still at work and cant test out many of the changes, but the way it is, I think mesmers/ele might as well not exist and this will become thieves/necros-land

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

BlackBeard.2873:

I’m all for nerfing the crap out of terribly-designed passives. I want to see more passives nerfed too (all those offensive passive procs like panic strike and incendiary powder especially). I would love to see traits modify active skills in interesting ways to promote different skill usages, as opposed to making hard-counters.

My previous suggestion:
You become immune to the following conditions depending on your current attunement:
Fire: Chill, burning
Air: Weakness, torment
Earth: Cripple, bleed
Water: poison, confusion

It creates interesting play for both the ele and the enemy. No matter what your strategy, even something like a burn guardian, you have significant windows to do your thing (save all your burn burst for after they leave fire, profit), while as an ele you have new defensive options if you intelligently use your attunements. Both sides can know what is going on and adjust their play actively to respond to one another – this is good design.

You are forgetting to look at the other side of the coin.

How bout condi spammers?

Yeah….@BlackBeard “tends” to forget always about the other side of the coin :* ridiculous burst ( like 12k dmg with 1-2 skills on 8-10s CD); braindead condi spamm( chill/chill/chill/torment/torment/torment/confusion looolololo); CC/daze spamm etc etc*

Uh, that isn’t neglecting the other side of the coin.
Some condi builds being a little too strong doesn’t change the fact that Diamond Skin is poorly designed and could be HEAVILY improved.
He never said braindead condis are fine.

Pretty much this! I have been campaigning for EVERYTHING to be nerfed, and poorly designed traits/skills to be reworked. Diamond skin falls into that second category, but it doesn’t mean the first category should be ignored. This thread just isn’t about the first category.

Nerfing diamond skin won’t do anything except delete the auramancer build

So, change Diamond Skin and change Auramancer accordingly so it doesn’t need to rely on cancerous passive traits?

Was referring to meta auramancer, the concept itself won’t disappear, it will change to something less team support and more self-sustain…either way a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam, meanwhile the true intent of these threads remains hidden to the masses these thread are not merely focused on diamond skin, the real aim is to destroy the last bastion of hope against condi spam.

The diamond skin nerf crusade is just a facade, I guarantee you that with the trait gone…the same necros(+ lone burn guard) will jump on the next nerf crusade which is ele sustain in general with more emphases on the ele ability to recover from mindless condi spam

100% wrong. If you read many of the posts, they’re not even talking about nerfing the trait, but changing it so it allows more counterplay. Right now the trait shuts down some builds completely, while is useless against other builds. Reworking it would also didn’t change the amount of support auramancer has, since the trait is 100% selfish. You really need to stop defending badly designed traits if you actually want the game to be balanced.

Supreme.3164:

a skilled ele would still triumph over cancerous and effortless condi spam,

oh wait, I know how to do these too!! :

A skilled ele will not easily die to 2 people while perfectly maintaining their diamond skin in a 1v1 scenario, specially versus condi spammers. You must be playing above your MMR if people can easily kill you when you are using the meta auramancer

There, I too can fall into fallacies, and as you can probably see, it will take us nowhere.

Conditions are OP on the stronger side, nobody denies that, specially reapers. That is just another issue that has to be tackled as well, because we don’t play the game in a vacuum. Diamond skin is also in a poor state, you also can’t deny that if you do care aout game balance’s health.

Dont believe me? Look at the current state of PvP:

http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/

Right now we are pretty much a joke of PvP because nobody wants to admit whats broken and what isn’t. Your attitude is not helping the game’s PvP, it is only making it be more of a joke, as if we already weren’t!

I already gave my constructive criticism, I want the game to succeed, thats why, as an Ele main I want to point out whats holding us back, so that we might reach a better state of the game.

hurrado.2346:

Except it’s not even close to being overpowered. It serves 0 purpose against power based players, and only slightly counters condi based players. If you can’t do 1800 direct damage or can’t get help from a teammate to break through it because your too bad to do it yourself you don’t deserve to beat the ele.

Again, why do people assume Im fighting the ele? i AM the ele.

40% damage reduction, 3 auras, a healing skill, 10% damage reduction from frost aura, elite to give me another aura.

Effective health is a lot more than 1.8k, on top of that I have over 9k of healing in a matter of seconds. You cant see things in a vacuum, truth is; even with 2 people, it can be tough to break through my health.

Like I said, I’m an ele main…im usually the one on the ele side, not 1v1’ing him. The problem comes to how they synergize with another bunker/healer, druid/mesmer/ele. Basiclly it becomes impossible to kill me, or even do anything for that matter. Very little involvement of my part other than “spam all heals off CD”.

It doesnt promote healthy gameplay.

Certainly you can do 1800 damage to us, but lets be honest, with auras healing 1k each, getting back those 1800 isnt too hard.

Binary skills shouldnt be here.

Suggestions could be; apply resistance for 2 seconds (5 secs ICD) when 3 condis are applied.

My schedule is so crazy though :/

I’m down to premade anytime you know, but when you aren’t on then what?

My suggestions is more for all the other people, people that like/have no choice but to soloQ. I think it would improve the long term health of PvP.

Pretty simple. Ranked would become soloQ only. Hotjoin/unranked would allow the current dynamic queue. People in soloQ would eventually rise up to their real MMR, get recruited by a group and then practice on unranked.

Then, create a 3-4 weeks long league ONLY for 5 man premades. (like WvW season)

Optional: During the same time SoloQ would get their own league for lesser rewards. Move most of the rewards to reward tracks and achievements. Rewards a small bonus for being on the top of soloQ, (idk, 10%?)

Would remove the frustration of being put against premades. Short lived season ensure that, like WvW season, it doesn’t feel it is a chore.

Crinn.7864:

Fortus.6175:

I think rank should be no weight in determining MM. Right now it account for 50% of MMR. I also think they shouldn’t show it at the end of the match.

If you are good, and your premade is good, then average the MMR for that and bump it up by more than 2% per teammate in the same party. Then match agaisnt someone with the same or around MMR without taking into account divisions either.

I dont mind fighting diamonds, I do mind being given team mates that just farmed to sapphire and the MM thinking they are good just because they got there. I know plenty of good emeralds, i know plenty of decent ambers. Give me those players if their MMR is good enough to give me a “fairer” match.

I vaguely remember reading that the matchmaker already inflates your MMR if you’re in a team.

Yah, it does. How much seems unknown, but according to their data it works.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vdaxe/slug/cxn6o9k?context=3

Imho? it doesnt for the most part. I think the fact that pros are using fresh F2P accounts mess up the rating, and MMR is not volatile enough to rank them in time. The outliers seem to mess up their system quite hard.

I think rank should be no weight in determining MM. Right now it account for 50% of MMR. I also think they shouldn’t show it at the end of the match.

If you are good, and your premade is good, then average the MMR for that and bump it up by more than 2% per teammate in the same party. Then match agaisnt someone with the same or around MMR without taking into account divisions either.

I dont mind fighting diamonds, I do mind being given team mates that just farmed to sapphire and the MM thinking they are good just because they got there. I know plenty of good emeralds, i know plenty of decent ambers. Give me those players if their MMR is good enough to give me a “fairer” match.

After a lot of salt and anger, I can say I honestly don’t blame the pros for “abusing” matchmaking.

The system is the one that is broken. Yes, sure they are taking advantage of that, yes, Im sure they are aware it is hurting their name and the respect they get from the community… but try to put yourself in their situation;

You want to PvP, you made PvP friends who are actually good. You climb the ladder (you need to have certain degree of skills and team communication to do so, admit it). Then you reach the cap and now what? 1 hour queues. No one to fight.

I believe the system we have is at fault, there aren’t enough players for the implemented way that matchmaking works. Anet expect massive hordes of players rushing PvP, which did happen, but they didn’t account for methods that would keep people from frustrating themselves with the system.

Pips and MMR contradict each other. SoloQ is non-existent.

Lets look at how League of Legends started. They appealed to the masses, made it so that you felt you had a chance playing alone. Most people play alone, so it was convenient. I got recruited by a friend who told me my skills would carry me where I belonged. I sucked(and still do) but I always felt the system was fair. Now that their playerbase is large enough, they are doing dynamic queue, which they can support thanks to the large population they built.

Anet can’t do that now, they removed soloQ too early, and they dont have a large enough population to do what they are doing now.

I honestly believe the system wouldn’t be as bad if more people play and there was a larger degree of skills, but there simply arent enough people with the necessary skills to distribute them across different levels of play.

I think Anet was shooting too big, and didnt realize you need to craft a system to fit your population’s skills/perception/quantity. Most games change to different systems once the population starts growing/decreasing.

Here is to hope that Anet learns and we get a better second season. Anet takes a while but they always seem to deliver.

/cheers

/StillSaltyAboutBalanceAndSoloQ

Ashron Valhalla.8369:

You can’t say, having its head in the fire and feet in ice, that the temperature is pleasant.

Unfortunately matchmaking is like this.

LMAO, this couldnt have been more on point on whats going on!