Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

ElvisMcRanft.8569:

So, basically – best DPS for that spec would be using Dagger + Warhorn and switch to a Greatsword at 50% and spam gravedigger?
Thanks for your research btw!

And Yannir: is it the Black Ice Band / Earring or Bloodruby Band / Pendant I want to go for?
Yeah, Pendant & 2 Earrings, but do those 2 bands differ in any way?
Does it take long, to get those?

And still, the question still has time tho, Valkyrie’s or Berserker’s?

Thanks everyone, that’s so much good input here, highly appreciate it all!

Think I will stick to my PS Warrior for Raids and use my Reaper then for everything else

Greatsword is superior even above 50%, because you can use gravedigger every 8 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE5dbF3J90o

Dagger doesn’t break 23k DPS. Axe sits somewhere around 20-21k. Greatsword does around 24-25k and can be pushed to 28k optimized.

Pretty much this. Grave digger and nightfall pull ahead of dagger by a heavy margin, and should be used when not on CD, especially to break the 3rd GS auto.

Dagger is easily 23k

But GS is 22k with a very bad rotation, but can be pushed to 24-25 with a better one. 28k is min maxed, like hardcore.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Vinceman.4572:

BeLZedaR.4790:

T4s in current iteration are too easy for me personally

Stop running in a static group and pug them. The challenge is much bigger than to rush through it with friends. In some of these runs you have to carry others very hard.
Second option is to play raids. Fractals are in the right spot now and the real challenge are raids with challenge mode.
I don’t think we need more harder stuff in fractals besides 3-4- challenge modes like in level 100.

But then the isue is still there of fractals themselves not offering any real difficulty. Sure in a pug you have difficulty but that’s because you’re running with a full Carrion ele not because the content itself is difficult.

I don’t see how the carrion ele would be the source of the problem. Difficulty in pugs is due to not properly performing mechanics. Not stat choice of one party member.

If that was the case Magi druids would have been the first to go.

Muchacho.2390:

FrostDraco.8306:

Shaogin.2679:

I use power reaper in every game mode and do just fine. In Fractals, should have no issue with going greatsword/axe-warhorn. From what I’ve seen recently, camping greatsword is more dps than swapping between greatsword and dagger. May be wrong on that but I’m pretty sure that is what the consensus has been lately. With that said, you can then easily swap out dagger for Axe and use it when, for whatever reason, you can’t fight in melee.

It has been proven that without quickness, dagger pulls ahead (barely), and with quickness GS is leagues more dps. Which is why all power reaper benchmarks use GS now.

I thought that even without quickness GS has better dps then dagger. The CoS (Coefficent per Second) of GS auto is a bit higher then the dagger auto one. So not counting any offhand but GS should always have higher dps then dagger ( so i suppose the higher dps comes from the offhand).

Kinda sad since Anet said in the past that the dagger auto should have higher dps then the gs auto. Though that was true when they said it.

It’s from the swarm of locust from what i see.

Shaogin.2679:

I use power reaper in every game mode and do just fine. In Fractals, should have no issue with going greatsword/axe-warhorn. From what I’ve seen recently, camping greatsword is more dps than swapping between greatsword and dagger. May be wrong on that but I’m pretty sure that is what the consensus has been lately. With that said, you can then easily swap out dagger for Axe and use it when, for whatever reason, you can’t fight in melee.

It has been proven that without quickness, dagger pulls ahead (barely), and with quickness GS is leagues more dps. Which is why all power reaper benchmarks use GS now.

Had a squad today in which the underground facility boss on scale 81 fixated everyone in our party and refused to move. On top of that we also go our rewards long after we left the instance.

We killed it, but i digress.

Djinn.9245:

Just to offset the kneejerk GW2 defenders, I want to support the OP (if he’s still reading) with the information that I have been playing this game since Beta and I also had a lot of difficulty with the HoT storyline. At the point that I started HoT I had leveled 7 different characters to 80.

OP, keep in mind that those who think there is no problem either think that because they are naturally good at playing / making their characters “meta”, or they have played the game so much that they became good. Not all GW2 players are in that same situation even if the “defenders” would have you believe it.

I cleared everything in HoT on a Valkyrie GS/staff necro, marauder PP/SB theif, and zerk Flamethrower(not even juggernaut traited) engi. Solo. I died thousands of times. And never once did i think it was because the game was ‘too hard’. I always knew where i could have done something better.

The problem isn’t being ‘meta’. The problem is people choosing things they like, with no idea how they operate or synergize with the class. Then run in expecting to excel because they have a few exotics. I’m sorry but this is not that game.

There is no reason why I should be able to fight a bloodstone ele, without getting hit by a single exploding mini elemental, while a Daredevil is lying on the floor beside me, and I’m RESSING him, and still not getting hit by the explosions.

How many players pay enough attention to dodge two attacks at once with one dodge in pve? Not many. But those are the kinds of tricks that let you live longer.

Most of this game is ‘game knowledge’. It has nothing to do with being meta. Not a single stat type I listed is or ever has been meta for the corresponding classes. Not a single one of those has ever seen ESl or Raid play even. Some players are just naturally good at learning. You have effectively stated that the problem is people not learning. Which is the problem of those players.

How on earth can you blame Anet for their short comings?

Vinceman.4572:

Is anybody in the mood to send me a PM with the link/name of the actual dps-meter ppl are using in GW2?
Now that it is allowed to use I would like to see the comparison myself in my groups!

Here’s a hint. It’s the same name as the NPC that helps you in the new nightmare fractal.

I do not know if i can name it directly. So thats all i can do for you.

Zenith.7301:

ElvisMcRanft.8569:

So, if I got this right..
Basically, Necro trades in “some” (it’s like 10-12k roundabout?) for higher survivability in the form of tons of shtload of HP?

And I got it that far, he’s not preferred in Raids, as my buffs are quite selfish and my damage isn’t on par with other classes.
I’m cool with that, as I will craft myself a set of Vipers, Dagger Focus + Dagger (Scepter?) Warhorn for a Condi build – or doesn’t Condi have a raidspot aswell due to low damage?

Tl;dr: it’s still viable to go Power / Condi Reaper for Fractals, whereas I can run the power thingy for Level 50 Fractals? And the Axe is an okay-ish option, if there’s only/mostly single target?
Sorry, if I act a bit dense, I was gone for 3 years now and it seems, that I found a class, to effectively make use of that howler…

Edit: I found no enemy so far, but they have that blue breakbar by now – what would be the most effective option to break that?

http://qtfy.enjin.com/dps

lol it’s not some 10-12k.

Best necro dps build is condi, it does 22.5k realistic DPS. Power build realistic DPS is around 20-22k.

Ele realistic DPS is 36-39k DPS. Thief is around 36k.

So you do 14-17k DPS less than they do, just for having more HP which you don’t use anyways because necromancers do not tank (chronomancers are the ones tanking), and any damage you might want to absorb is easily avoided via dodging.

P.S. Go condi reaper for fractal, power reaper is garbage anywhere that’s not open world PvE.

In fractals enemies have heightened armor (that caps at 50 but is still higher than raid boss armor) that devalues power damage, and condi necro does not do badly because condi necro also has great aoe via epidemic and a bunch of debuffs that hinder enemy damage on top of corrupting boons off enemies.

Power necro is useless in PvE, don’t bother.

Chronomancers only tank in raid. Fractal bosses don’t have the toughness aggro mechanic.

I’ll keep runing my power reaper in fractals ty very much. You are welcome to leave my party if you don’t like it. But i’ll be kitten ed if someone else is telling me what to run over a less than 10% dps difference.

And power/condi necro both have the same debuffs, and same boon stripping ability. The boon corrupting is a +, but half the time it barely matter because you can just strip the boons anyway.

Eneldiar.9670:

Glad to see so many responses.

After more testing, I find it beneficial to actually use BOTH builds simultaneously. They can both be successful with similar stats (trailblazers) and with the right foods/sigils, my armor can provide 100% duration for poison, bleed AND burn.

It would be more beneficial and do more DPS if I had an armor set for each – but that’s not a major on my priority list – maybe once its easier to swap gear sets quickly.

In general, I always have Reaper traited, but will switch between Death Magic, Curses and Soul Reaping depending upon the situation:

Curse/DM – most Dungeon boss fights where it’s a single target burn and curse does more DPS

SR/DM – Anytime there’s a large group of smaller mobs, Dhuumfire can do some substantial damage. Usually use this when I’m not fighting a dungeon/fractal boss or when I need more survivability than Curse/DM provides.

Curse/SR – Usually use this on world bosses. lets me switch between damage types and works if I’m not going to benefit from pets, like some of the world bosses.

What no spite or blood magic? And Death magic is terrible nowadays since the minion nerf.

“Ele’s in the worst spot for any class ever for the damage department,”

This gave me a chuckle.

Warhorn 4 at the end of the vault animation. Problem solved.

Methuselah.4376:

Actually Necromancer is hardly trash at anything. We’re in a comfortably average place for most parts of the game. Necros are actually great in high end fractals and WvW. What miffs people is the fact that we bring average dps with little to no party support.

By Average, you mean lower than every class in the game with the same stats.

Every class is trash when your only frame of mind is dps, except thief and ele.

Ignore those people and play w/e the hell you want.

Buran.3796:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rev is badly designed. It shouldnt be any surprise that hacking its damage away has taken it out of play. Essentialy all the buttons people were using are still there, and they can still mash them away with little effort for maximum “reward”, but since they’re no longer getting an in excess of reasonable amount of damage, they’ve moved on. Nothing’s really changed with rev except for the free DPS carry, so reverting said damage isnt going to change the reason why Rev needed that nerf to begin with.

Man, is not only damage what Rev lost. In the October patch the Retribution traitline (which was a sustain line) was butchered: goodbye stability, goodbye Versed in Stone. In the December patch Warding Rift cd (which is a defensive tool in a defensive weapon which damage was also nerfed) was rised from 12 to 15 seconds.

So you’re playing Mesmer and still have problems to beat a class without stability, almost no condition cleansing who can’t tank and which has Mesmers as one of the worst hard counter. And still struggling and wanting more nerfs? I will tell you one thing: Revs are currently so inelastic in terms of room for error that if one is beating you the chances are that He’s a better player and probably still will able to win even if ANet nerfs all his damage to a wet towell level. And every Rev at Plat+ you find out there will be in similar terms because the class is no longer mainstream so the players remaining are either very good or masochist.

Because getting stab on dodge and a dps rotation consisting of auto attack and precision strike whenever its up is hard to master how? How is that balanced in any since of the word? How is that fair to other classes?

Rev nerfs were well over due, but the problem is they nerfed the class without anything to compensate. They removed too much damage imo. And they still never fixed the ratio’s on precision strike.

Also when you say rev does ‘wet towel damage’. Just no. Hell no. Every single necro build does 30% less than rev does. THAT is wet towel damage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

In case you have any doubts. Revs issue isn’t dps, rev’s issue is that assassins presence isnt enough to make it a meta class as far as party buffs. Ventari is way too complicated to play to make it even somewhat viable, and condi rev, well yea, nothing to say there.

As for struggling. I think you and i have 2 very definitions of struggling. Rev has a lot of core class issues, which prevent it from being top teir at anything. But struggling? I guess engi’s and necro’s must be dying then.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Probably around the time that other class mains stopped getting carried and now can’t accept the fact that they can’t read the most telegraphed animations in the game? :y

If anything warrior has steadily been getting weaker as a core class, people just don’t dodge.

Since when have necros ever gotten carried o.0.

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

As scarce as T6 mats are I usually find myself needing many, many times more T5 mats than T6 mats. I wouldn’t be opposed to increasing dungeon rewards, but first I really just want to see dungeons changed. Remove 33-66% of the trash mobs in each patch and make the rest of them unskippable. This makes dungeons shorter for PUGs, makes them longer for organized groups that skip content, but mostly it goes a long way towards normalizing the time needed to complete a dungeon, which means ANet can adjust the rewards more fairly. Because right now they aren’t balanced that great, a speedrunning group is getting those tokens and gold in ~2-3 minutes on most paths, whereas an unorganized group can take up to 20 minutes or longer if they are really bad. Its hard to find a reward level that is appropriate for both extremes imo

It’s not 2-3 minutes on most paths. The ones that can clear the very few that can be completed that quickly are highly skilled and coordinated groups which are beyond what you’d encounter in most pugs and non-pug groups. Dungeons shouldn’t be balanced around groups that play terrible otherwise you just remove whatever challenge is left and we’re stuck with even more boring dungeons.

If you are taking 20 mins for anything but arah, you have no idea what you are doing. Even arah only takes 15-25 mins when people know how to do the path.

I run every dungeon path, and on average 8-10 paths a day. The only reason a run would ever go over 20 mins is people not having a clue what they are doing. And I haven’t had a pug that was that clueless in weeks. The average run time is about 8-10mins, and 5-6 on ones like SE P1.

But of course if you are constantly running with sub 80’s, it would slow you down.

Anchoku.8142:

This is just my opinion but power is the highest priority, then precision to the cap, then ferocity.

The reason is this: Power provides the basis for crit modifiers. A critical hit automatically adds 50% more damage to the base damage even with zero ferocity. This is why players love Death Perception. Ferocity adds to that 50% but only when the player crit’s.

This is all discounting minimizing the time between completion of internal cool downs for critical hit-based effects and the next crit.

I generally use the same priority for consumables, too.

Although you may not cap crit rate without Death Perception, FitG will help you stay in play while Dhuumfire will add dps to all builds; especially hybrid builds like Viper’s and Sinister

I’d like to add a caviat to this.

This would be the case for every class….BUT necro. The problem with necro traits is that even without any precision, you can get 70% at the drop of a hat with decimating strikes and fury. Then you need 29 or 30 percent to cap.

If you are solo, you could make this up with berserkers gear, assuming you aren’t going to use shroud, because if you are using shroud, why NOT take soul reaping? FitG is awesome, when you arent running shouts. In pvp, its the better option, but in pve, it’s not really needed assuming you know how to use RS3, or run shouts. Dhuumfire, the DPS is ok ish. I wouldnt prefer it over death perception because I dont only use RS1. here is a DPS benchmark showing they are just about even. The problem with dhuumfire is once you go the full valk/ferocity build, it goes waaaaaay behind.

So i feel a lot of necro players are forced to either, A) build for 100% crit chance without shroud and take blood magic. This build is better in a group, as you dont need the added survivability at all. Or, go for the gusto and drop your crit chance to nothing, and go for 100% in shroud and use soul reaping. Much tankier, decent dps, decent sustain. Much more suited to solo -play and dealing with large amounts of trash.

I did the latter. I would say to the OP, if you are a player that plays alone, and needs to carry when in groups, the valkyrie build definitely holds its own. But if you are not abusing the death perception and shroud uptime, then it’s DPS is terrible.

So you really need to do an assessment of what your needs are. Berserker gear and some valk peices works as well if you want to min max in groups. But yea. Berserker for a non-shroud/group playstyle. Or Valkyrie for a specifically solo/carry playstyle.

GWMO.4785:

Edit: I just renembered that i (and many others) used to make 35/50g a day, from doing multiple dungeons back in the days. Before it got nerfed. So.. yeah.. let that sink in for a moment.

You can still make about 30g an hr farming scale 40 with a group. gg

Aeniklast.9283:

What is a good ideal base crit chance for a Power Reaper?

I’ve been running full Ascended Berserker’s gear on my Reaper and I’m about to convert it all to Valkyrie gear in the Mystic Forge. As suggested my many players in game and on several YouTube tutorials (Brazil for one example)

I’m using this Reaper build (build input also welcome) I was advised to drop blood magic for soul reaping for higher uptime on shroud for better survival without sacrificing on damage.

I know I’ll defiantly have 100% chance in shroud, but I’m worried about non shrouded crit chance with Gravedigger skill.

Is an ideal level of precision I should be aiming for? I don’t want to convert all my gear to Valkyries only to find out I’m not able to get those wonderful 30k+ crits anymore.

Running general PvE to farm mastery experience. Mostly solo play, some META events, Teq & a few low level fractals. Not interested in swapping Staff out for Axe. That’s pretty much the only thing I’m not open to change.

Appreciate any advice!

The pure valkyrie gear with soul reaping is more for solo than anything because you keep high dps while being more tanky.

Also for the people saying that zerker is more dps? Yea, when you are not in shroud solo. When you are in a group however, you really don’t need the precision at all. And its been proven that vampiric+wells+valk gear is 13% more dps than zerker when you have good rotations and the 10% vit to power food.

It just all depends on what you want. I’d argue full valk carries hard in t4 fractals however. The sustain is kittened.

When you are fighting more than 2 enemies, staff will generate more LF than axe, which allows you to run the soul reaping build more effectively.

At this point for me personally. For raids however, I wouldn’t run power necro personally. Someone will normally just try to single you out at the first wipe. Speaking from exp.

nagr.1593:

prob those same ppl that buy lvl 100 cm run for literally yes – 100g

always makes me cry when i see these posts in-game. If u ever wonder how low a skill lvl u can expect of average casual player.. unfortunately this is it

it’s funny but arah path took roughly same time as 100 cm does, once upon a time. only arah paths went for like ~4g a pop, which was hella lot cheaper lol

I dunno what’s wrong with majority of this playerbase tbh. nothing I ever learn anymore abt them shocks me, bc i have such low low expectations and bad opinions of every pug I come across to even begin with.. well now ya know doncha

PS how do u think I felt when i 1st learned raid wing prices – esp for xera and stuff? rhetorical ye but shocked senseless would be close to it. if I spend months to scrape by enough gold to craft a legend then I could prob buy one whole wing for a single week for that sum, for grand total of like 3 li. makes me laugh and cry when I think of it xD

And i guess thats why you go around every forums posting about how you have so many issues with loot and other things? Or how about (as mentioned above), you advise people to fake LI’s?

Maybe the reason the pugs you get are so bad is because they have to carry you? Food for thought.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Opopanax.1803:

Thanks for all the input! Lots of things about some classes that I didnt know before.

One additional question… how useful do you think stealth is for bypassing mobs in certain areas? I havent played stealth classes before past about level 20 so I dont really know how useful it can be as a tool for getting around mobs.

Stealth is situational since it’s generally a short duration effect. I don’t think it’s possible to permastealth anymore. Or else I’m doing it wrong.

I have a daredevil with stealth and I found it very useful while harvesting winter berries to just stealth before harvesting and ignore everyone.

In general you don’t need to worry about avoiding mobs, though. You might occasionally get slowed down for a bit, but mobs give up pretty quick if you just run past them. There are only a handful of mobs that when concentrated enough can trash you if you don’t try to deal with them.

You can still perma stealth, but it requires a certain set up. Mainly pistol offhand, shortbow, smoke screen, and shadow refuge.

tonny.7580:

Vinceman.4572:

tonny.7580:

agre with the first boss becous i get the one us to to daily reco but people who dont have time the dont to them + the reword is pack of level of start of hot =realy realy bad havend seen rings for 2 weeks now only salvaga tool and thad it

No offense, but please, can you do me a favour and edit your post because it is impossible to read and to understand.
Thank you in advance!

well sorry but i cant to better gramer natze i am dylexic soo deal with it

That doesnt make them a grammar kitten moron. You are the one with the issue here, not them.

Vinceman.4572:

cranos.5913:

DPS meter would help loads in identifying the problems you can’t see.

Which unseen problems? If people are taught to make 0 mistakes they’ll have no problems in succeeding.
Every week many pugs are showing it and I doubt that most of these people are running good dps rotations. I myself have never trained at the golem, neither with my main nor with my tempest that is played in raids only and usually the time or dps isn’t a problem, at the most on the first pull.

Expecting anyone, even the top raiders, to make no mistakes is beyond unrealistic. I can think of several speed runs, and raiding tourney 1v1s where mistakes were made for every group involved. There is no such thing as perfection when we are talking about human error.

The real question is whether the mistakes you make will wipe your team. Half the time THOSE are the important mistakes, even if it drops dps. If you are running into an enrage timer then dps is definately the issue, because based on average dps, most pugs should be killing them with minutes to spare even without the ‘meta’ comps.

Just because DPS wasn’t an issue does not mean your DPS was perfect. There is a stark difference between those two things.

Also you not using a training golem, means the LAST thing you should be talking about is your personal dps, because you have no idea what it is if you have never used a training golem.

I used to be in the camp that thought the possibility of raids getting an easier mode was good. But after actually raiding, and getting kills (with less than a few hrs of work for a first time training session).

I don’t think raids need a story mode or easier difficulty. They are in the sweet spot atm, and lowering the difficulty would neuter the encounters given how easy they are with just a little practice.

Half of the T4 bosses are more dangerous (in pug group) than VG, Gorseval, and Escort/Trio. And that’s saying something.

Especially one you consider thai t4 NM fractal is longer than most single boss raids. If you can’t focus for 7 mins to get your first kill, then the issue, is not with the encounter.

Considering you can take sword or shield on condi warrior for an extra block, you shouldn’t have too much of an issue not dying. It took me a while to get used to warrior (coming from power necro), but now I can finish most of my raids, and dungeons, on her without ever going down. Just takes practice and knowing when you should drop an offensive utility for a defensive one.

Side note, you can run the new winterberry food that gives might on crit and lifesteal. Honestly I think lifesteal food is highly underrated, but thats just me.

bLind.6278:

The only thing about fractal loot that I find to be lacking is how you purchase ascended gear. I think the costs are pretty ludicrous for anyone that hasn’t been doing fractals for eons already, or is willing to put some serious farming time in.

Thats the point. Max crafting skills and make cheap gear, or a pay a premium for being lazy.

bLind.6278:

From the sound of it, the pecking order seems to be condi warrior > condi necro > power necro in regards to organized groups. However, I pretty much only put fractals, so I don’t typically have a support that can babysit my warrior (even now in t3 fractals I’ll occasionally struggle to survive as a power warrior, though I’m sure part of that is just due to how much melee hate exists in fractals now). Obviously power necro would suffer similarly since it is also melee oriented, although it has marginally better survivability thanks to reaper.

Condi is understandably far easier to survive with as it’s easy to avoid boss melee cleave and the more predictable ranged attacks.

I figured I’d end up going condi one way or another, I just know how much easier it is to gear for berserker since I don’t have to raid or grind bloodstone fen for days and days.

Does anyone have any input on condi warrior versus condi necro? Nike suggested warrior as every group needs a warrior, but not necessarily a necro, so purely from team benefit, warrior is better. Beyond that, does anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to get full viper trinkets or a suitable alternative while I slowly farm them from Bloodstone Fen?

I should note that I don’t have access to most of LS2 and have already gotten the sinister pieces (neck and one accessory) from the episodes I do have, and I know I can get a viper amulet from the HoT story but it requires a 5man group and I don’t have friends. Is rabid, carrion or rampagers okay to sub in while I farm?

You can get easy trinkets from ranked pvp, and for vipers, the difference between exotic and asc is smaller than 3 stat sets. I’d just get the exotic recipes and craft those if you have jewel crafting.

As for warrior vs necro. Both are common in fractals and raids. However warrior requires a certain amount of finesse to play, compared to necro. Especially when you run banners over defensive utilities. It’s all about whats gonna be comfortable for you to run. Purely for team benefit, warrior is miles ahead, so if OP is concerned with that, then that would be the best choice.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

FrostDraco.8306:

My pure valk necro brings equally as much to the table that a condi necro if you swap utilities as needed. Condi necro literally only brings damage.

Transfusion is better on a power necro because of shroud based builds, and anything else you just mentioned can be done on power necro as well without hurting the build at all.

I suggest you actually play a necro before talking about the class, because you clearly dont understand WHY people even play condi necro. It’s not the utility, its the damage. The utility for necro can be used on condi OR power. And arguably power has more utility due to GS nightfall and pull. They play it because its brain dead, while power necro requires a little more activity, because the build certainly will not carry you.

Transfusion is in blood magic, both power and condi can run blood magic, not the other way around.

As for epi, power necro generally has more AOE, which is even on terms with epi unless it’s being bounced. Power necro DPS pulls ahead once the mobs are below 50%, and even more so if again, epi is not being bounced. But for a single necro? No, it’s not more utility, it’s actually about even.

Hurts to see how wrong you are with basically everything.

. How about you formulate an argument rather than piggy backing off the points of others? Are you just here to throw salt?

>Transfusion is in blood magic, fact
>Power necro can take blood magic, just like condi can, fact

The only thing you can argue i was “Basically wrong on everything” about was transfusion not hurting the build.

So again, your point? Oh wait you don’t have one.

@Rising dusk: Power necro can take most of those utilities given the situation, they would hurt the dps of course, but they can still be taken. However what can’t be taken on most condi necro builds is a greatsword for the pull, since you will be locked into the weapon during combat. To clarify, when i said utility i didnt purely mean 7-8, i meant crowd control in general.

Taa taa

thrag.9740:

FrostDraco.8306:

Only 1 problem with the QT benchmarks. If you play power necro, they didnt even bother. So you will have to look elsewhere for rotations on that.

A thread asking about how to start raiding probably shouldn’t venture into off meta builds. Not saying they can’t be very helpful. I myself have a minstrel chrono tank, my guild often has ran with an auramancer healer ele, and we had condi mesmer being used before the recent reddit threads about it. But when your first beginning raiding, it is better to stick with something guaranteed to work that will be easily accepted in lfgs.

I’d argue that minstrelchrono is way better for safer clears, even the elite guilds use it in tournaments now (see mighty tepots elitist raiding tourney interview). DPS is rarely the issue with chrono, and mistrel chrono makes you kitten there unkillable. But as for necro, yes, its safer to stick with condi because people will accept it more often. However I have done plenty pug runs with power necro’s. It’s all up to the OP what they want to run, but they need to accept the consequences of running it.

I’m just throwing it out there because power necro is just so easy for people to dismiss, so easy that the guild a lot of people rely on for DPS denchmarks didnt even bother to do them for the build.

thrag.9740:

Of the two builds you listed, I would say condi warrior would be more helpful. I don’t like melee builds in fractals, in particular for pugs. In my opinion there is just too much emphasis on position, and as a result I think an average player will do better with ranged builds.

Examples of this problem:
-poison trails, sky hammer cannon, mai trin cannons – all singularities
-reactor boss (no floor/more time just trying to get into position)
-aetherblade boss (laser walls between you and golems)
-chaos boss

Also regarding the nerf to minions, this barely affects condi necro at all in fractals. Rarely (in my experience) did you build up an army of minions anywhere except the longest bosses. However, it certainly hurt necro in raids.

I agree with this. When you play melee in fractals now, you really have to be more attentive and know how to survive, especially due to poison trails, flux bomb, and social awkwardness. All of which can wreck you if you slip up.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

FrostDraco.8306:

My pure valk necro brings equally as much to the table that a condi necro if you swap utilities as needed. Condi necro literally only brings damage.

Transfusion is better on a power necro because of shroud based builds, and anything else you just mentioned can be done on power necro as well without hurting the build at all.

I suggest you actually play a necro before talking about the class, because you clearly dont understand WHY people even play condi necro. It’s not the utility, its the damage. The utility for necro can be used on condi OR power. And arguably power has more utility due to GS nightfall and pull. They play it because its brain dead, while power necro requires a little more activity, because the build certainly will not carry you.

Transfusion is in blood magic, both power and condi can run blood magic, not the other way around.

As for epi, power necro generally has more AOE, which is even on terms with epi unless it’s being bounced. Power necro DPS pulls ahead once the mobs are below 50%, and even more so if again, epi is not being bounced. But for a single necro? No, it’s not more utility, it’s actually about even.

Please post some dps numbers to back up your claim that valk necro can match viper necro dps, thx!

All you had to do was google, literally the first one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sXFsow6rM

And this is running blood magic, which would come with the transfusion.

Zaxares.5419:

You will get on average about 10g a day if you do T4 Fractals daily. This is taking into account the junk items from the Encryptions, selling any spare Encryptions, and selling the Stabilizing Matrices if you don’t use them yourself. You also get a fair amount of T5 mats, which you can promote to T6 and sell for more loot.

There’s also the odd chances for Ascended drops as well. Not often, but it does happen. In fact, my main beef with Fractals at the moment is that Ascended amulets don’t drop from Fractals. You can get just about every single piece of Ascended equipment simply by doing Fractals, EXCEPT amulets.

However with how easy they are the farm now (HoT stats included), this isnt too much of an issue. It would water down drop rates tbh. We already have too many asc amulets tied to collections that are not salvagable.

You can literally buy a ring everyday if you do T4’s, which are worth only as much as the 1g junk item you get if you dont get another item. I honestly dont see a point in this, when it has been proven the rewards are in fact better, ESPECIALLY in regards to the encryptions.

My pure valk necro brings equally as much to the table that a condi necro if you swap utilities as needed. Condi necro literally only brings damage.

Transfusion is better on a power necro because of shroud based builds, and anything else you just mentioned can be done on power necro as well without hurting the build at all.

I suggest you actually play a necro before talking about the class, because you clearly dont understand WHY people even play condi necro. It’s not the utility, its the damage. The utility for necro can be used on condi OR power. And arguably power has more utility due to GS nightfall and pull. They play it because its brain dead, while power necro requires a little more activity, because the build certainly will not carry you.

Transfusion is in blood magic, both power and condi can run blood magic, not the other way around.

As for epi, power necro generally has more AOE, which is even on terms with epi unless it’s being bounced. Power necro DPS pulls ahead once the mobs are below 50%, and even more so if again, epi is not being bounced. But for a single necro? No, it’s not more utility, it’s actually about even.

Only 1 problem with the QT benchmarks. If you play power necro, they didnt even bother. So you will have to look elsewhere for rotations on that.

My first gorseval kill ever was this week, and it was a no updraft kill, mainly filled with new raiders (only the tank/com was exp). It’s all about being at the right place, at the right time, and making sure you keep an eye on raid LFG. Also joining a guild that does raids, or has people who do, is very important.

miguelsil.6324:

Zero Solstice.9754:

We have quite possibly the largest selection of playable utilities and traits of any class in the game. No other class has our level of ambiguity in terms of their specific selections. Out of 33 total utility slot skills, 24 of them are actively used in different builds. That’s just about 75% of our utilities.

Some of our abilities are slow and questionable, others are slow and strong, and even others are fast and weak or fast and strong. Over time, however, ANet has been trying to give the class some tuning to give these slower abilities so fresh air, such as Life Siphon, Ghastly Claws, Focus cast times, etc.

We don’t have a lot of selection in terms of straight-up burst combos, but we have plenty of individual abilities that hit quite hard and some that synergize well for a large amount of consequent damage.

Still a CC sponge, but we have some great stunbreaks on low cooldowns and access to Stability now; any class that gets focused hard will get CC trained into the floor if they don’t have blocks or invulnerabilities.

Necro is in a dependent state because of how ANet is choosing to balance it, and a lot of the other changes don’t fully address the true problem, however a lot of the things you are complaining about have been updated, at least marginally, in the last year alone, let alone over the 4 year life span of the game. It isn’t really fair to say that the class is bad, but it is definitely reliant to achieve top potential.

Fast stun breaks? usefull ones with fast casting? I dont see them

Almost half the shouts break stuns, and so does flesh wurm. They all have no cast time, and are aoe(shouts). Then there is foot in the grave, which is instant seeing as shroud is instant.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

FrostDraco.8306:

Neycan.9237:

Thanks for your feedback guys.

I didn`t really expect the damage loss to be that big and did not factor in cripple as an additional soft cc. In this light I understand why scepter/horn as a second set is more desirable than staff. Although I still like the utility staff has with poison field, chill and condi transfer. But granted, this does not make up for the severe damage loss.

In raids you dont really need the utility as wh 4,reaper shroud, and golem will provide more than your fair share of cc. Also people might have assumed you are a power necro, because lets face it, staff sucks for condi dmg.

Staff just sucks for damage in general PvE-wise

Scepter has enough poison application, you already have a poison field with CPC and you want to whirl in your ice field anyway, you got condi transfer and you got tons of chill sources. Staff adds absolutely nothing to your build you don’t already have in a way or two, except 300 more range, which is just… nah.

I argue otherwise for power builds. But yes, for a condi scepter build, staff isnt useful.

Neycan.9237:

Thanks for your feedback guys.

I didn`t really expect the damage loss to be that big and did not factor in cripple as an additional soft cc. In this light I understand why scepter/horn as a second set is more desirable than staff. Although I still like the utility staff has with poison field, chill and condi transfer. But granted, this does not make up for the severe damage loss.

In raids you dont really need the utility as wh 4,reaper shroud, and golem will provide more than your fair share of cc. Also people might have assumed you are a power necro, because lets face it, staff sucks for condi dmg.

I find its easy to deal with guards if you pressure them from ranged and avoid being pulled into a trap fest. They normally cant respond very well with the pressure staff or axe can deal if they arent in melee range.

Kiting them is huge, even if you have to run circles around them.

Rise! and minions work well against them as well as they trigger traps. Also a well pre-placed flesh wurm is an extremely easy out if you screw up and get yanked into a burst combo.

I’ve been pvping a lot of guards lately with GS and staff. Rarely lose a 1v1 to them now that i know how to deal with spammy spammy trappy pull.

Sarrs.4831:

FrostDraco.8306:

I have no issues dueling with GS and staff on my power necro.

Axe is not our ‘best weapon’. Not by a long shot.

Maybe you could talk about general PvP instead of dueling, or try addressing the points directly, instead of barely-relevant anecdotes.

Anchoku.8142:

It was a shock to me just how much of a difference the cool down reduction made in replacing staff with axe. Of course, there is the 10% damage increase from Unholy Fervor but 20% icd reduction seemed like it made axe worth trading with staff.

It makes sense. All the power of the weapon is loaded into 2 and 3.

Last I checked, OP didnt restrict this conversation to pvp. Making this another useless response.

And wasnt what i responding to an anecdote in the first place? Hypocritical much?

I guess anecdotes are fine so long as they agree with you, right?

I duel all the time on axe. If you are the kind of person that stays at ranged anytime you pvp, then of course it ‘seems’ like a good weapon. But anyone with a brain will just walk away from you even with the cripple, literally. Axe has no stuns, immobs, or pulls, or fears, also its blockable.

Staff has the benefit of marks being unblockable, its projectiles pierce, its has poison which is HUGE in pvp for the healing reduction, and on top of that it generates quick burst of LF if you chain cast the marks so you dont have to camp it. Which is amazing for power builds. And its even more amazing for aoe situations as you get 3% per target hit for each mark, in addition to the few auto’s in between. which is 50%+LF over the course of 3-4 seconds with 5 targets, minimum. Even in pvp its not that hard to hit 3-4 targets with marks in team fights, and they are not blockable when traited which means you almost always land them.

And staff has a larger range. Good for poking, applying pressure, and getting out of dodge. Also you can leave marks on the ground while kiting, which people either have to walk through, or go around, which increases the chances of getting away.

Sigmoid.7082:

FrostDraco.8306:

Sarrs.4831:

Axe is actually Power Necro’s best weapon; the AoE boonclear and high burst/LF generation on 2 is extremely useful, and the fast attack speed is great for proc effects, especially Strength Runes. It’s just that Power Necro doesn’t really have any place doing much of anything in PvP because it doesn’t have the tools to last in a brawl and it rarely matches up in duels.

I have no issues dueling with GS and staff on my power necro.

Axe is not our ‘best weapon’. Not by a long shot.

Neither are those two. Everything has its place. Depends on your build and playstyle.

Here’s the difference. No one is going around claiming they are. Your response is pointless.

Sarrs.4831:

Axe is actually Power Necro’s best weapon; the AoE boonclear and high burst/LF generation on 2 is extremely useful, and the fast attack speed is great for proc effects, especially Strength Runes. It’s just that Power Necro doesn’t really have any place doing much of anything in PvP because it doesn’t have the tools to last in a brawl and it rarely matches up in duels.

I have no issues dueling with GS and staff on my power necro.

Axe is not our ‘best weapon’. Not by a long shot.

KrHome.1920:

SeranusGaming.7362:

This is a pretty impressive WvW video on how to run a power reaper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XvaUasILUY

Not viable! And the video shows just cherrypicked scenes against bad players.

I ran this build with D/Wh + Staff and YAAW! instead of Flesh Worm before Rise! nerf and it was pretty good with the 50% damage reduction – even though totally relied on that skill. Players that did know how to negate Rise! could wreck you easily.

Meanwhile it is super squishy and super slow – a bad combination. Faceroll matchup for every Teef, Warrior, Power Druid with Immobs, Dragonhunter, Revenant and so on…

Btw:
I played some ranked matches yesterday and I switched back to Dagger/Warhorn+Axe/Focus and Curses/Soul Reaping/Reaper on Demolisher Amulet. Your massive and unblockable CC and corrupt capabilities are a lot more helpful to your team than the Spite build I posted here 6 days ago. GS is just lackluster and gimmicky in sPvP (It’s still okay in WvW in a bruiser build due to higher damage potencial).

Unblockable cc….you mean like soul marks? And curses, ew.

Coming from a person that just started raiding this week (consistently). My practice group killed VG after maybe 1-2hrs. Greens circles should always take priority over dps.

We assigned 5 ranged people (necro, engi, druid, ele, ele) to circles, so that way we always had 4. By the time the fight was over we had never missed one, because people called them out as soon as they spawned. And our comm made sure we were there, even if it meant lowering dps. The last 3-5% we said screw it and skipped the last green for the kill.

Sarahfull.4930:

I don’t see how they are not needed. With the slaying pot and the defensive fractal pot together you’ll have huge damage reduction while still learning your way around or when you make a mistake. With the slaying pot plus the precsion pot together your dps will be high.

I wasn’t trying to be smug btw, I just don’t see why you wouldn’t want both if your not condi or playing a fractal with no slaying types. Each slaying potion is in the copper so I badly worded 1g to mean you could get a huge supply for value.

I have a stack of each. My point was that you can comfortably run fractals without them. Hence not being needed.

No, the HoT points give 10 HP’s per challenge, so unless your rev has map completion, its just better to go get HoT points and finish the spec in a few hours.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Gonna post an older video that is still very much relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPXCdOB8wi4

I don’t have the guts to pug dungeons anymore, but I can easily imagine how they look. People have become complete trash. First sign that gives away how bad the group is, is the composition. You often see people playing necros or double/triple warrior and they don’t even care enough to relog to a different class that would be a milion times more useful. They don’t swap weapons outside of combat for mobility and blasts, don’t swap utility skills or traits, don’t even play proper rotations.

Basically it’s impossible to have a decent dungeon run at this point, because everyone capable of pulling that off is not interested in dungeons anymore.

Really? Because my average pug run on my PS is extremely smooth, and only lagging slightly behind speed runs when people actually listen.

And are we seriously going to start with the anti-necro bullkitten?

On a side note, most players are bad at this game. That goes for all games. Why is this still a surprise to anyone?

Sarahfull.4930:

You can also spend 1 gold coin on getting yourself slaying potions. They provide +10% damage reduction AND they stack with the fractal pots aswell. They also give +10% dmg vs that type aswell. These potions are like a lost art the last generation of fractal runnets used while being told they only press 111111..

Lmao are you serious? They aren’t a lost art, they just aren’t needed.

Next time you wanna take pop shots at fractal goers make sure you aren’t making yourself look like you can’t handle the pressure first. Make sure you rename that guide from friendly, to smug kitten.