Guild Wars 2

Thats why I put the build information in the first part once I watched the recording.

It’s not up to my standards, even for my toaster.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

If you’re group is not aiming for min/max everything, tank (especially in LFG) typically have >1400 toughness in case warrior revive trait mess up aggro. So just commander armors will give you around 1200 toughness and should still be sufficient. You also gain around 13% boon duration which is more than enough for covering expensive utility price. Ofc you can always reduce number of commander armors to suit your need.

Its about 1200 toughness for the armor yes. My full commander chrono has 1654 with full commanders and leadership runes.

You can chrono tank without ever touching a sigil of concentration. There are plenty of 100% boon duration builds that never touch it. Don’t just blindly follow the meta build. Especially when you are complaining about something that doesn’t even need to be done in the first place.

How about we just give it 5-10 secs of resistance. then it would be worth using.

Sykper.6583:

FrostDraco.8306:

Astralporing.1957:

Najten.2418:

I know there is specific information regarding what a 3rd party program is allowed to do and not do; but since I’m not entirely sure of how these different programs operate I don’t know if they break these rules or not.
Is there an official list of for instance DPS Meters that are allowed to use or will I just have to install one and “hope for the best”? :|

More specifically, would BGDM be allowed?

It’s… tricky. By Anet statement dps check is allowed if it’s for your group or squad. BGDM has a slightly different selection method. On one hand that method seems generally okay (as it is an opt-in method, and so cannot be done if the player in question is unwilling), on the other it doesn’t really comply with the letter of the rule (as it can pull info from players that aren’t in squad/group).

They stated they would allow the parsing of all combat data. That would include people not in your group. What it does is estimate group DPS, which if you follow what the devs stated to a tee, is allowed.

I would be very wary of running meters that measure ‘out of group’ DPS. The reason being is a quote from Chris C. stating that joining a party or squad is a means of accepting DPS meter use on your performance…

We can then imply that not joining groups or squads is not giving your consent, aka you are within you right as a player to report others for measuring your DPS (aka calling you out in map chat) since you did not consent.

The recommendation for DPS meters in particular then would be:

- Do not abuse them on players not in your group, they should only be used when they join your group. Nothing in the open world even remotely needs a DPS meter.
- Do not use Gear Checking at all. This is specifically mentioned as a no-no, which I think is fair.
- Might be a fair practice to suggest to new raid members that you are running them, but anyone who joins a group is giving consent to them implicitly, that’s kind of what everyone agrees to when they form up. Giving their all to killing raid bosses.

Very good guidelines. I agree with this.

Astralporing.1957:

Najten.2418:

I know there is specific information regarding what a 3rd party program is allowed to do and not do; but since I’m not entirely sure of how these different programs operate I don’t know if they break these rules or not.
Is there an official list of for instance DPS Meters that are allowed to use or will I just have to install one and “hope for the best”? :|

More specifically, would BGDM be allowed?

It’s… tricky. By Anet statement dps check is allowed if it’s for your group or squad. BGDM has a slightly different selection method. On one hand that method seems generally okay (as it is an opt-in method, and so cannot be done if the player in question is unwilling), on the other it doesn’t really comply with the letter of the rule (as it can pull info from players that aren’t in squad/group).

They stated they would allow the parsing of all combat data. That would include people not in your group. What it does is estimate group DPS, which if you follow what the devs stated to a tee, is allowed.

Sublimatio.6981:

no, dagger deals more dmg than axe. of course on power necro you should never leave GS but if you have to, dagger has immobilize (more breakbar dmg), corrupts 2 boons and not 1, has a 600 range heal if you need it. and the autoattack is almost on par with gs auto, while axe falls behind a lot and doesn’t cleave.

Why use dagger when you can just use GS??…..Why would you need the immob when breakbars basically don’t exist for necro??? I mean seriously, reapers hroud has more cc than dagger, why not use that instead of gimping yourself with a lower dps weapon you honestly can play a power necro without ever using? Use flesh golem instead of dagger?

Axe strips 2 boons mind you, and dagger is not on par with GS. Idk where you heard that but GS has better damage than dagger. Maybe you should actually look up the benchmarks? Oh wait, you used an immob? Theres your dps on dagger gone. GS has more cleave, blinds, chills, vuln, and more dps. The only thing dagger has over GS is lifeforce regen, which you barely even need, even on a soul reaping build, GS is better to use than dagger.

Why do you need immob, when you can just switch to axe, have similar dps, and range!? It’s almost like you have zero clue.

Axe is also ranged, which is better than staff, and slightly worse than dagger (axe is about 21-22k dps, while dagger is 23k).

Edit: I put 3 as a typo, which was incorrect its 2 boons.

nintama.9436:

Power doesn’t go well with minions as far as I know. Minions condi scale with condi so condi is better with minions.
Staff is good in theory but since minion don’t die easily in PvE so you don’t really need staff. Staff is not good in pve
In addition, running minions in open world may get you in unnecessary combat (they are undead minions, they have no brain)
I would suggest to run less toughness. Viper (for condi) or zerker (power) then switch dead magic in if ypu still want minions
For weapons, if no gs then just axe/wh and dagger… It should be fine

It can, its just half the people in this thread honestly have zero clue about how.

You run blood magic on a Minionbuild for life leach with spite or soul reaping and reaper.

You have the option of replacing blood magic with death magic, but spite and reaper i consider mandatory for damage, and overall quality of life reasons.

Imo anyone that says core necro shroud is just as good as reaper shroud, honestly can’t be trusted to make any statements about necromancer. There is a reason you don’t see necromancers not running reaper, and there is a reason almost every build that is even slightly popular uses it.

There are plenty of ways to make it work, as i used to run it myself for the lols, and soloed fractals regularly with it. But when i play minion-mancer, i go full minion build.

As for the people constantly recommending dagger ….I have no words. I am disappoint.

Honestly, I personally have more issues now than i ever did, and this was after the balance patch. People would rather you play anything BUT necro.

BGDM has already been made to comply with Anets statements. No question on that.

As for add ons, pretty much anything outside of showing combat data, this means dps, buff times, uptime, etc, while anything else like showing someones traits (that includes checking armor), is against their policy and subject to a ban.

GW2 Helper
BGDM
Arcdps

Those are the only 3 i know of that comply with their standards. There are other used ones that show gear and guide movement(with icons), but they are a grey area, so i’d avoid the risk.

Decided to improve the build that Wooden Potatoes posted recently (or gimmick, whichever you prefer).

Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNzVQ_BCNs0

Build link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhj6kjGoxGsdTwcTg9GsgLYRbgOw9K+K+FHjQXtAQLA-TxRAQBRU9HM8AFCoeHbqEkQ7PAgTWQIV+1NIAYCpKrqkCAm5WA-e

Note: I know my framerate is crap, and the build editor says 60% condi duration, but its actually 100% in game, i guess some bonuses are not applying properly.

Now go forth my reaper brethren, and bleed the world dry.
Victory or death.

Sublimatio.6981:

why axe though, its extremely weak compared to dagger

Actually axe does about the same dps as dagger, is ranged, and has extra boon stip. Dagger is worse than GS for dps. There is zero reason to ever run dagger now outside of preference.

If you arent using elite spec on necro, play another class.

Im sorry but i think this build is absolutely terrible. You should be helping new players learn mechanics of the class. Not lean on minions and staff autos, both of which are terrible. Its a fast way to get kicked once you get into content that requires more than pressing 1. On top of that the trait selection is meme worthy.

>Firstly, condi builds suck without vipers. Especially if you arent stacking duration, which this build has none of. Secondly you dont need the tankiness from rabid with Parasitic contagion, might as well go sinister (which is actually competitive with vipers). Which is EASIER to get than these rabid pieces with time gated jewels.

>Staff is a terrible weapon for anything. Never, ever recommend it for anything other than the utility and tagging. If you are running a condi build, having a dagger offhand or swap is way better.

>Rune of undead? Just no. Go krait, trapper, nightmare, thorns, aristocracy, even lich(for double shroud dip), but never Rune of Undead.

>Spear>trident, especially before you can acquire a lot of condi damage. It allows you to refill shroud super easy underwater, which is better for dps until you get a complete condi build.

>Sigil of accuracy and Sigil of bursting are trash on necro. Just as a general rule. Never recommend it.

>Using unholy martyr…..ever

>Why do you need signet of locust if you have warhorn? The movement speed and swiftness DON’T stack!

>Using Shadow fiend instead of Jagged horrors when they count 2x for Flesh of master, Life syphon, and condi transfer.

>Using Death magic at all.

>Using Foot in the grave in pve, instead of Dhuumfire on a condi build.

>Using unholy sanctuary in pve

This build honestly looks like it was made by someone that barely plays necro, and when they do, do so poorly.

Chris Mavriplis.6517:

Sublimatio.6981:

yes it is bad. comparing to other classes it has terrible dps

so DPS limit means a class is “bad” in fractals?

I dunno if you’ve ever done fractals before, but losing the equivalent of maybe 3 seconds on a boss fight doesn’t make a class bad… FYI, fractals aren’t timed by the way! You can fairly easily be high 20’s-low 30k dps if you learn the class.

learn to have a preference rather than pretend to be factual.

Or you can actually run fractals before you open your trap?

Do you know what the word ‘bad’ means? It depends on the context. In this case we are talking about utility AND damage. Power necro lacks in both.

Also 3 seconds on off a hallucination in 100 CM can wipe your squad. And yes, it IS timed. It’s the only fight where you are required as a power necro to run soul reaping in order to pull your weight.

Just because fractals generally isn’t timed doesn’t make something ‘not bad’. Or are you going to start arguing for celestial builds as well?

Bohantopa.5729:

short answer:
if you want to allways get a group and you are ok with learning a not so simple class and are also ok with having lots of extra responsibilities -> mesmer (as chronomancer of course)

if you wish a simpler (in relation to chrono) class, only want some extra responsibilities and are ok with waiting a bit to find a group -> ele (as tempest)

longer answer:
almost every raid group wants 2 chronomancers, 1 for tanking 1 for buffing the non tank group. chronomancers also have a lot of utility with distortion, reflect, portals, pulls … . A good chronomancer can make the raid go so much smoother, a mediocre one will still be accepted only really bad ones get kicked. On the other hand, learning how to keep quickness+alacrity up, learning when and where to use which utility and learning how to combine both is somewhat difficult. A lot of people give up before they reach the mediocre level.
Basically the same goes for fractals (especially in t4), if you are running a chrono people expect certain thing from you. It’s the same with other classes, but a chrono can bring so much …

Tempest used to be the goto DPS class and is still accepted in most/all fights (but It’s good to have a condi ranger/engi as 2nd class). There is a big difference between a mediocre tempest and a good one. Depending on the group only good ones will be taken, bad ones will often be kicked quite fast. A tempest has some useful mechanics which should be brought for certain fights, most of these are easy to learn (or even passive like “gale song”). A tempest will also often have some extra responsibilities (cannons at sab, orbs at gorse, shards at xera to name a few) but not as many as a chronomancer. Being good at tempests needs some time to get the different rotations right but it’s easier to become a good tempest player than a good chrono player.
In fractals a tempest is accepted in every non pure condi group.

I would like to add a caveat to this. With the nerfs to staff ele, people have become accepting of viper tempest in those condi fractal groups. Dagger/wh, sc/wh, and d/d to be specific.

Khisanth.2948:

mtpelion.4562:

Farming, in general, is discouraged by the game’s design in order to build a game that rewards “play how you want”.

Essentially, the theory is that doing anything should give you lots of random stuff. You can sell the stuff you don’t want on the TP and use the money to buy the stuff you do want (also on the TP).

In this way, all content is rewarding, all players can “play how they want”, and the TP continuously sinks excess currency to fight inflation.

That is true until “how you want” is “getting stuff on your own”.

It’s a great system, as long as you understand how it works. The problem most people have with it is that they have come here from other games that promote farming (in order to trick you into paying a monthly subscription) and expect the system they are used to using to work here. When it doesn’t, it presents as a pretty nasty case of cognitive dissonance which often results in anger being directed at the system.

In this case you have to farm/buy gold or farm other items to sell and use the gold to buy the item you want while incurring the TP fees and taxes which means additional farming to cover that extra cost.

The primary problem with your argument is the assumption that the system is always performing flawlessly.

This is a strawman and you know it.

Feanor.2358:

FrostDraco.8306:

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

That’s two separate things. Any experienced FotM player knows the mechanics by now. Sometimes some noob(s) show up, but that’s just the pug life.

Now, considering players know the mechanics, meta comp is vastly preferable. 25 might, fury, quickness and alacrity are just that good. Sure, you can clear the content without these. But why?

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal. The optimal way to clear any 5-man content in this game is to take a standard raid subsquad. Period.

I know what Meta means kappa. You aren’t talking to a noob.

Feanor.2358:

That’s not “fractals vs raids” comparison, that’s “pug vs organized group”. And actually in higher-tier fractals – and especially groups who’re aiming for 100 CM – usually groups are “organized”, meaning they LFG for the specific professions to provide the combat buffs and healing.

The difference in fractals is they are easier, so you can get away with suboptimal groups and builds. So if you’re not looking for doing tier 4 on a daily basis, you don’t really care what your group would look like in the end. If you do it daily, however, there’s s a reason to go for the raid meta. Because you minimize the chances to end up in a group wiping several times in a row on the arm seals in Cliffside. It’s not a big deal once. But over the span of months it translates to a lot less frustration and a lot more fun from playing the game.

I run 5 necros on cliffside and clearing that just fine. Face it, whatever group that happened to, was just bad.

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

Necro is viable in raids. Necro just isn’t good in raids. There is a difference.

Anchoku.8142:

HoT did sap staff of some of its utility.
1. Restore original bleed count to MoB.
2. Restore transfer of allies condition on Putrid Mark.
3. Increase fear duration on Reaper’s Mark

I think the fear duration is perfect balanced when it hits, but i like the first two. Give necro back its condi transfer centered support if anything.

>not using vital persistance
>using terrormancer

You aren’t an aoe threat. You’re a gimmick. You build is still crippled by resistance, especially because you don’t get the damage portion on fear when resistance is up.

Hesacon.8735:

narcx.3570:

Hesacon.8735:

I run marauder’s and have no issues in T4. Wells and epidemic go a long way.

What’s the point of running epidemic with zero condition damage?

25 stack of bleeding is still 550 damage per second and there are conditions like vulnerability that the typical condi necro won’t generate. With might it can go as high as 1675 damage. In a 5 necro party it still adds a lot of damage without needing condi damage.

Or you can run more wells and do more damage because of 20% recharge on bloodmagic? Epidemic is only worth taking on power necro when you have someone who is applying a lot of burning, or you have another necro to bounce it back so you dont kitten the condi dmg and duration, outside of that it is literally useless on power necro when you can just drop a well, do the same damage and cleave.

Also marauders in pve is trash on a necro. You give up power for crit. The one stat a necro undoubtedly, does not need. You kitten your own damage for minimal health increase and the one stat necro’s not need…

Professor Sprout.1560:

Celestial is in general also viable for fractals: it will take longer to clear fractals when you have a skilled group with good build synergy, but you will be able to prevent more wipes when with less experienced or coordinated players.

When choosing stats remember also that in tier 4 it is common to use the fractal potions https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Potion. So build on the basis that you’re going to have those extra bonuses.

Celestial is bad, and you should feel bad for recommending it. It’s not ‘viable’, its absolutely terrible. Might as well just run death magic, and we all know how useless that is these days in pve.

Also the only build that should factor fractal potions is literally, boon duration on chronotank.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Feanor.2358:

How is that relevant to the lack of reward for playing a harder class? DPS meters are now widely used, the community would shift from eles anyway, because the majority of the players can’t play an ele effectively. The nerf only made the minority who can that much smaller and removed the incentive to become part of it.

For ele to play good healing they need to be very tankly and (i guess) that bad for pve due to how aggro works. Where these other classes have build in tanking skill that lets them pull off the glass support with out going high risk.
Now support ele in wvw is fun (missing some QoL for support in gw2) but ele dmg is non existences in wvw. I am not sure why they have not made overload air dmg pve only and different from wvw like they did with epi.

WvW is a different matter. I’m talking about PvE, where the one and only role an ele has is damage. Technically you can get healing gear and kite at Deimos, but that’s quite the exception, you basically get a solo role in group content.

There cannot be such thing as a support ele in PvE, because every support we can give others give with additional benefits. Aura healing? Yeah, but there are druids. Our heals are better sustain but then druids give GotL and Spotter. Protection from auras is possible, but isn’t very important and a guardian can supply it without losing as much dps. Stacking might and fury? Nah, there are PS warriors who also bring Empower Allies and banners and druid’s Tiger which keeps perma fury on the whole subgroup by itself.

So, in short, we’re damage dealers. We used to be a high-risk – high-reward damage dealers. Difficult to play, but being able to produce the best damage output in the game if player properly. Thanks to the “balance” changes, we’re now competing (and most often losing) in the dps race with classes which are a lot simpler to play.

A half decent ele still does the same if not MORE dps than those classes. You want your cake and eating it too.

Feanor.2358:

Right, because it’s so much fun to spend in LFG five times more time than you spend in the actual raid. No, thanks.

Because every other class that wasn’t ele, druid, mesmer, and warrior wasn’t already going through this?

Rednik.3809:

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

Yea, you. There were no nerfs to fractal ascended drops. In fact the changes have made them more common than ever, because you get more chest than before with the same loot table. And raids has an update maybe every 2-5 months outside of bug fixes.

steelheart.7386:

Altie.4571:

DH is not really meta. Easily countered gameplay is easily countered. This is why it falls off in usage the higher you go.

Traps are triggered by pets/clones. Dodge through them.
Not sure why you’re mad, but just calm down and try different things. Unless you’re a necro, at which point get your minions to eat the traps and line of sight cheese.

What minions? You sound like a bronze level know it all. What Necro build that is close to meta has minions outside of maybe having a couple pets from rise rolling around. DH is pretty strong all the way though in solo queue ranked although I agree far from unbeatable. Traps become a major problem when there are multiple DH however because they become harder and hard to dodge.

Just use Rise kappa. The minions from it still trigger the traps.

Cynz.9437:

thrag.9740:

tldr: sometimes kicks are necessary. More dps slots should be power thief, power engi, and condi mesmer.

I think it is more nuanced than, ‘be a jerk’ or ’don’t be a jerk’. Wiping for 30 minutes then disbanding does no one any good. Sometimes there really is a single player who can hold a group back, such as not throwing bombs at Sabetha (ironically Sabetha seems to hit enrage frequently in my pug experience).

However as far as under performing dps goes, I think a good practice for this community to address this issue is to push people towards the higher dps yet easy rotation classes. In particular power thief, power engi, and condi mesmer. Too often we try to just stack 4 eles at encounters where ele isn’t that much better (note: for gorseval no updraft and kc I recommend you stack 4 eles lol). Both power engi and power thief clear 22k dps just auto attacking. And condi mesmer will often be top dps on a single target boss like cairn and matthias.

Yesterday i got kicked on my ele from group on Gorse because we did no updraft and instead of afking during cc phase i dropped some damage in, but our druid refused to heal me so i got kicked for going down and was told to not dps Gorse + all other “nice” things in direction verbal harassment.
I join another group (accidentally ended up with couple ppl i killed deimos with on first week) and we cleared all 4 wings without much a problem in one evening (ca. 3 hours?)…. This is gw2 raiding community for you. And this happens all the time, one group just flames and blames 24/7, i join other and we clear wings quickly and without any issues~

3hrs isnt quickly at all. I cleared w4 with a pug in 2 hours the first few days. If it took you guys 3 hours something is really off, especially now that the mechanics are known.

NumenorLord.6539:

Warcry.1596:

NumenorLord.6539:

Coffietire.2783:

I find condi necro pretty boring

This is because you might have been playing it wrong. Once you team up with only condi damage dealers and at least 2 more necros you’ll see that Epi bounce (well executed) is one of the coolest mechanics that makes you just wipe through FotM. Viper Necros might not be the highest damage output but they’re extremely functional in the right parties and rarely go get downed, even at higher level fractals.

Coffietire.2783:

I was just wondering how well a power necro is in higher tier fractals all the way to CM 100.

Power necros are underlooked. We all want them to be a thing but that’s the reality even with the GS buff. If you show up to a 100 CM pug there’s a 90% chance people will ask you to swap or vote kick you (can happen different if you’re running with guildies and/or friends).

I have never been kicked for it. I have the title and potions so beyond that people don’t care what you bring in my experiences.

Guess you’re part of that 10%

Seriously. In power compositions asking pot and title it won’t be an issue. I normally run with condi only teams (with viper necro or condi ps) and power necros are not welcome there. Seen this also happen in PUG raids where people are asking for condi necros (VG and Gorse) and a power necro joins. Guess it has to do people not reading descriptions in LFG.

I run 100 CM every single day, and never have an issue with pugs that didnt specify condi before hand.

Your made up stats are exactly that, made up.

Okami.7049:

“I’d use your youtube as an example of blatant hypocrisy and me being correct, but I’m a nice person.”

You just hypocritically DID use his YouTube simply by referencing it. A nice person wouldn’t have to point it out, they’d just turn the other cheek and walk away (just saying).

That was called sarcasm. And that was the point. It’s not hypocrisy.

He did the same thing to me. I only think its fair.

Sandrox.9524:

Okami.7049:

Sandrox.9524:

FrostDraco.8306:

Sandrox.9524:

@Okami,
If you talking about wvw/pvp you are clearly over your head.

Dagger>>>>>>>GS
Simply because dagger dish out dmg quickly and can easly dis out more dmg auto attacking while GS auto attack finish. GD and Nightfall are not in the equation since they are so easy to dodge and avoid. Plain and simple. GS is about the burst not about the DPS it is not DPS weapon in pvp.

If someone is dying to dagger in pvp, they are trash. Also GD and nightfall cant be avoided at the end of a dodge.

Just because YOU might suck, doesn’t mean every necro does. I kill plenty of people just fine with GS. Only a blind immobile monkey will die to daggers pitiful dps.

It is almost like you talking about GS but instead of saying GS you saying daggers..

But kudos being the 10% of the Necro pvp community who think GS is effective.

Also kudos of being the 1% of the entire guildwars2 playerbase who think all ppl are stupid enough to dodge the moment you using GD.

Would use your comment as signature but nah I am really nice person.

I’m confused and am going to assume you were talking to Draco on that one (confused because I was quoted as well yet your comment sounded like it was directed at him, especially since you mentioned PvP).

ye it was for him

Kudos to you for thinking of the 0% of players who are killing by pitiful melee cleave, and a very long cd, and low duration immob. I’ve probably killed more people in pvp with gravedigger, than you have with a dagger necro, ever. Can’t dodge when you are out of endurance kappa. Maybe you are like the rest of the trash necro’s who grave digger to open with, the reason you actually think this?

Everything you said applies to dagger as well mind you. The irony is cute.

I’d use your youtube as an example of blatant hypocrisy and me being correct, but i’m a nice person.

Sandrox.9524:

@Okami,
If you talking about wvw/pvp you are clearly over your head.

Dagger>>>>>>>GS
Simply because dagger dish out dmg quickly and can easly dis out more dmg auto attacking while GS auto attack finish. GD and Nightfall are not in the equation since they are so easy to dodge and avoid. Plain and simple. GS is about the burst not about the DPS it is not DPS weapon in pvp.

If someone is dying to dagger in pvp, they are trash. Also GD and nightfall cant be avoided at the end of a dodge.

Just because YOU might suck, doesn’t mean every necro does. I kill plenty of people just fine with GS. Only a blind immobile monkey will die to daggers pitiful dps.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

I think GS still suffers because it just doesn’t have much utility. It’s not like scepter and sword symbol that offers decent boons. Condi reaper got buffed and the GS buffs actually benefit condi reaper a lot. Condi reaper is still very good and situational depending on boss. In terms of DH, current DPS symbol and hammer still reign supreme.

>condi reaper
>GS

What? What condi reaper is using GS?

Must be a gaurdian main

Cynz.9437:

OP, there is thread about it in general discussion. I am certainly not seeing myself buying any ascended gear with pvp/fractals tokens any time soon. It is simply not worth it if you calculate costs of mats + time spent to get those tokens, especially when ascended boxes drop from raids/fractals and you can buy gear for magnetite shards which are not time gated to a season and don’t require crafting stuff.

Saying that as pvp’er you don’t need gear is stupid, a lot of players don’t just sit in pvp 24/7 but also participate in other aspects of the game. At least in fractals ascended gear is a must, simply due to infusions. You are not going to get into many raiding groups as well nowadays unless you have proper ascended gear.

I personally have been participating in every game mode (although i quit wvw ages ago, too boring): i raid every week, i do fractals every day and pvp obviously. From my experience gold and mats gains from pvp are absolute joke outside of recent ranked rewards during the season, but it is time gated and not always available unlike fractals or raids. The chances to get ascended from pvp are also absolute joke. I have had more drops from killing 9 bosses in 1 week and some fractal runs than in months of pvp.

You just invalidated your own point. If you are playing other game modes, then you are earning gold from said game modes, which means you can pay for it like everyone else.

Also the statement about raids is an outright lie. At most groups require asc trinkets and weapons, not ascended armor. And even then most groups only require exotic. And with the new patch giving you easy access to an ascended weapon, and berry farming literally giving you trinkets up the kitten , no one should be complaining about this AT ALL.

Ikr. There are thousands of solo videos for almost all of the dungeon paths out there. OP is just lazy and wants to be rewarded for kittening around.

Most dungeon paths are only 10-15 mins long with a pug. That’s not much of a time investment.

You can already maintain 25 might in fights without gimping yourself with a worthless hybrid build that has no boon strip, in a boon meta.

I’m sorry but imo this build is bad, and anyone ive seen running anything like it in ranked pvp has met a gravedigger good time.

Your build revolves around might and lifeforce, but you didn’t take soul reaping, so you lose out on the huge amounts of might shroud will give, for mediocre condi pressure, and a loss of ranged pressure. Might as well just take Axe, which fairs way better than dagger in duels.

ElvisMcRanft.8569:

Reporting in after a few days, I’m sorry for the late response.

My Necro is Level 70 by now, only did Map Comp and the Personal Story – I think, I will take it slowly and not level with professions, so I can explore through Orr naturally.

I’ve prepared some gear for my Character, as it’s light Zerkers, I want to be able to trade it to a – soon to come – Mesmer or Elementalist.

Would Rune of the Scholar or Strength be better?

For a necro? Strength is hands down better on the consistency scale, and scholar is usable, but necro’s self might generation is beyond our ability to maintain hp. Its personal choice really.

Power mesmer gets self might from GS, and ele generates might in fire. I’d never use scholar on mesmer tho.

Seera.5916:

FrostDraco.8306:

I don’t think you understand the GW2 meta very well. While i agree with your sentiment, the GW2 meta has objectively been a dps race. If it was truly based on success rate, mistrel chrono would be meta, as it can literallly carry teams in raid. But it’s not. It’s relegated to a ‘viable’ build because it has low dps.

The only class i feel actively needs defensive gear is necro, and thats only because we lack active damage mitigation other than protection and dodging.

Necro traits allow you to take gear with no precision or very little, and still cap in parties. For instance right now, valkyrie necro is the highest dps necro build when min maxed, because of this. But it isn’t a ‘meta’ build? It has the highest damage and survivability, but it’s still not meta.

But I think that is a specific case.

Revenants, also have a trait that allows them to drop some precision due to double fury bonus.

META in GW2, is an issue when you truly want to min max. Most content can be cleared with viable or near meta builds. Yet people will cry about something as simple as not having the right food, because ‘meta’. And yes, I have actually had a condi necro rage at someone in our t4 fractals because they didnt have the right utility pot up when we started.

Meta in GW2 isn’t always the most effective. Sometimes its simply the highest dps. Which is sad for a classes like necro, rev, and engi.

I’m referring to the PUG meta where players who aren’t looking for steady groups come in.

If the highest DPS combination of classes and builds and rotations isn’t easy for PUG’s to get, it’s not going to be the PUG meta.

The PUG meta for a class is the magical combination of easy to pull off and highest DPS. It gives the highest success rate between groups of strangers. Where success is completing the content within a reasonably quick time.

And I’m fully aware that the meta is all about maxing DPS. But if the average skill level of the average PUG group would end up wiping 75% of the time or taking 3x longer than the static groups (due to not being able to pull off the rotation flawlessly) with the highest DPS set up, then it’s not going to be the PUG meta likely. Because they’ll be too likely to wipe too often or easier for them pull off in a shorter time frame. They’ll back down a step or two (which likely won’t hurt their DPS too terribly, it just won’t be max DPS) and find something that’s got a lower chance of them wiping and easier rotations to pull off so they don’t take forever.

I fully understand what meta is with regards to GW2. And I’m fully aware that the meta may not necessarily be the most effective, highest possible DPS on paper, because people make mistakes and can’t always do the theoretical DPS.

I don’t know how you thought I didn’t get what the meta is from my post, I really don’t. I said nothing that you didn’t say in different words.

I wasn’t talking about just PUGs, thats why. PUG meta comes from coordinated meta.

What a lot of PUGs forget is that coordinated meta comes in a variety of flavors, and doesn’t need to be followed to a tee, to be achieved.

Both require each other to exist. Without casuals, hardcore people wouldn’t exist, and without hardcore, casual wouldn’t be a thing.

This thread is redundant.

Seera.5916:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You should absolutely use zerk (unless you’re going with a condi build, then you should go Vipers).

The problem with using other gear, especially gear that focuses more on durability, is that it can teach you bad habits, or fail to teach you good habits. When you use Berserker gear, you learn thing like damage mitigation through things like blind, distort, aegis, etc. You learn how to position better and you learn to dodge crucial attacks and just work better in a group. Using tank stats causes you to miss out on those lessons.

Yeah because you can dodge everything and avoid everything with those, right?

At no point in an open world event will you ever dodge an AoE just to find yourself in yet another AoE attack?

Or find that your defensive skills are on cooldown, while being in the middle of a red circle?

Or find that the boss you’re fighting has gone invincible and all you can do for 60 seconds is avoid its damage or tank it head on?

And even if none of the above ever, ever happen to you because of how much a pro you are (which, again, I highly doubt, regardless of your level of skill; some deaths are just unavoidable while in zerk gear) it’s not the case of 90% of the community.

This zerk meta crap just has to die one day or the other. Bringing in Vipers was not enough to bury it.

Most people don’t find themselves in those situations often enough to center armor stat choices around it.

Trust me, I should know. I’m a low/mid-skill level casual player who plays characters in Berserker gear and I don’t have many, if any, defensive skills. I don’t find myself in the situations you described often enough that have led to my character being downed.

Name me one open world boss that goes invincible for 60 seconds without a secondary objective to make it uninvincible?

Meta is only an issue when players enter content that requires cooperation between players. The meta is the meta because it’s the easiest build that gives the highest chances of success in what players wish to do. If you find the meta bad, then don’t join groups asking for it. Make a group and advertise what stats you want players to use, if any.

I also don’t understand why you think the meta should die. It’s not going to change anyone’s behavior as it pertains to the meta. Groups that currently require the meta will still require whatever becomes the new meta and will still exclude anyone who doesn’t. It’s not going to suddenly make players with lower skill levels any better at the game and it isn’t going to change their survivability in any huge way – the game runs on active defense, armor is passive so 99% of time deaths are due to not being aware of the situation and not the player’s gear.

I don’t think you understand the GW2 meta very well. While i agree with your sentiment, the GW2 meta has objectively been a dps race. If it was truly based on success rate, mistrel chrono would be meta, as it can literallly carry teams in raid. But it’s not. It’s relegated to a ‘viable’ build because it has low dps.

The only class i feel actively needs defensive gear is necro, and thats only because we lack active damage mitigation other than protection and dodging.

Necro traits allow you to take gear with no precision or very little, and still cap in parties. For instance right now, valkyrie necro is the highest dps necro build when min maxed, because of this. But it isn’t a ‘meta’ build? It has the highest damage and survivability, but it’s still not meta.

But I think that is a specific case.

Revenants, also have a trait that allows them to drop some precision due to double fury bonus.

META in GW2, is an issue when you truly want to min max. Most content can be cleared with viable or near meta builds. Yet people will cry about something as simple as not having the right food, because ‘meta’. And yes, I have actually had a condi necro rage at someone in our t4 fractals because they didnt have the right utility pot up when we started.

Meta in GW2 isn’t always the most effective. Sometimes its simply the highest dps. Which is sad for a classes like necro, rev, and engi.

Sublimatio.6981:

FrostDraco.8306:

Just something for the Op to use as kill proof and discriminate in LFG.

That’s literally the only reason why I can think this would ever be a valid problem.

think harder

Think more*. Fixed that for ya.

And my point still stands. When you argue that something should be exclusive, and you can’t give a good reason why, other than “because x people should be the only ones with it”, then that is the only logical conclusion.

Especially if you are omitting your purpose for wanting it to be an exclusive mini.

It wasn’t exclusive. Oh well. Get over it. There are others that are.

Lahmia.2193:

FrostDraco.8306:

Lahmia.2193:

Eneldiar.9670:

narcx.3570:

Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.

Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.

Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).

I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.

Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.

Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.

That’s bull. Considering most of the meta builds for every class but thief are heavily based on party support.

What I mean is, even for t4s, people are pretty lax in what you can bring. Having banners/ea/spotter/frost spirit etc etc is a very very rare sight in a pug group. And my personal experience is that ps warriors are extremely rare.

They are rare because of how unforgiving fractals is to melee, and classes with low sustain. Going PS party support basically gives all that up, so you have a point.

However frost spirit isn’t rare in my experience. If anything there are too many druids and not enough of other kinds of buffs.

Fractals has indeed become more lax lately tho, and I for one am happy with that. Maybe its because know people know what they are doing? Who knows. I know i don’t find my self having to hold my party’s hand as often, so thats a plus.

Crinn.7864:

FrostDraco.8306:

That won’t change ANYTHING because mesmer sword STRIPS BOONS on auto attack. That would just cement mesmers further and do NOTHING for necro.

Boss pulses 3 boons.

What now mesmers

This would just hurt necro even more as boon corrupt only affects one boon every 3 auto’s for scepter, while mesmer strips a boon every auto.

The only thing this would benefit is power necro’s taking wells, but wells have a short duration and a long cd, which defeats the point.

KrHome.1920:

Dear ANet: I know you like doing it the easy way. ;-)

So please add some endgame mechanics requiring massive boon corruptions. Group support added. Problem solved. No further balancing needed. Thanks!

That won’t change ANYTHING because mesmer sword STRIPS BOONS on auto attack. That would just cement mesmers further and do NOTHING for necro.

Lahmia.2193:

Eneldiar.9670:

narcx.3570:

Spite goes hand in hand with a dhuumfire build since so much of spite revolves around making yourself stronger by spamming Shroud 1, which I mean, if you’re set on using dhuumfire for PvE, you’re going to be doing a lot of.

Did some testing on this, and think I found a happy medium.

Spite definitely makes a difference on more solo-oriented PvE content. Between the might-stacking and Blighter’s Boon, it seems to be quite good (at least from what I’ve noticed).

I think in fractal/raid groups – especially if there’s a PS Warrior or another heavy might-stacker – BM tends to work better. The might-stacking doesn’t seem to help as much if you’re already capped on might.

Could still be missing something, but your advice was helpful.

Maybe its just my own experience but I never see ps warriors or any idea of might gives in fractals anymore. Elitism went out the window with HoT release and it seems most people bringing party support went with it.
I just prepare to be self-sufficient, like bringing Bitter chill instead of Spiteful Talisman, so less than 25 vuln isn’t a problem.

That’s bull. Considering most of the meta builds for every class but thief are heavily based on party support.

Just something for the Op to use as kill proof and discriminate in LFG.

That’s literally the only reason why I can think this would ever be a valid problem.

Amineo.8951:

FrostDraco.8306:

My pug group cleared this on like our 3rd try within an hr. Positioning is so easy on this due to the dash.

I don’t know why I have so much trouble finding groups like that, I killed the Mursaat Overseer and Samarog last week with pugs in a training group, could have done the same with Deimos, but Cairn? Nope, people still don’t dodge the swipes after a billion of tries and don’t res anyone…

TBH i barely dodged swipes, and sometimes even i was on the hitbox when it started so i didn’t have a chance to dodge.

I got downed several times. And I can honestly say I was probably the worst person in my group, playing on a build i have barely used, on a class I barely play. But even when i kittened up, i knew I did. I apologized to the group, and tried harder not to make the same mistake.

Hell one time i dodged towards the outside of the arena on Samarog and got hit with the knockback, and then got speared. Comm called me on it, and i had nothing to say. Because it was my mistake, especially when he warned us ahead of time. So I shut my mouth, and waited until they finished or wiped. Best believe it never happened again.

Our comp:

Sub 1: chrono tank, 1 condi necro, 1 FA staff ele, 1 healer druid, 1 power PS
Sub 2: 2 condi PS, herald, 1 chrono, 1 healer druid

Not even full meta comp. Most of us were just average.

My pug group cleared this on like our 3rd try within an hr. Positioning is so easy on this due to the dash.

Muchacho.2390:

Lahmia.2193:

Muchacho.2390:

FrostDraco.8306:

Shaogin.2679:

I use power reaper in every game mode and do just fine. In Fractals, should have no issue with going greatsword/axe-warhorn. From what I’ve seen recently, camping greatsword is more dps than swapping between greatsword and dagger. May be wrong on that but I’m pretty sure that is what the consensus has been lately. With that said, you can then easily swap out dagger for Axe and use it when, for whatever reason, you can’t fight in melee.

It has been proven that without quickness, dagger pulls ahead (barely), and with quickness GS is leagues more dps. Which is why all power reaper benchmarks use GS now.

I thought that even without quickness GS has better dps then dagger. The CoS (Coefficent per Second) of GS auto is a bit higher then the dagger auto one. So not counting any offhand but GS should always have higher dps then dagger ( so i suppose the higher dps comes from the offhand).

Kinda sad since Anet said in the past that the dagger auto should have higher dps then the gs auto. Though that was true when they said it.

After a few tests on the dps golem I found that Dagger auto was slightly higher dps than Greatsword auto (about 1 second ahead on the 1mil hp golem). However, Greatsword dominates dagger when you add Gravedigger and Nightfall into the mix.

Well if thats really the case the numbers on the wiki are not correct. Because going with those numbers and taking the 10% damage difference of GS and dagger into account (note here bcause of the damage formula you can simply mulipliy the GS CoS with 1,1 to get compareable values), the CoS of GS auto is a bit higher. The difference is maginal however (GS is 1.375 and dagger is 1.3725). In fact is is so maginal that you probably wont notice any difference.

And my tests are more inline with the wiki numbers (mainly the sequence time because the coefficent itself can be calaculated form the skill tooltip and the damage formula).

Also i dont know your setting for golem tests. I suppose with a CoS difference that small and since there are things like crits, procs etc and imprecise time meassurement and not a sufficent number of tests, a result like yours is possible.

Did you factor in dagger auto speed?