I’m running with this : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0At0gN2AebCs3glpBTaAUACATtsLwHI+DWCfhA-TxRBABA8AAwTXwCHBAKV/xMlgXt/o8jiLBAA-e
going balls deep everytime without dying ^^
Kill that build with fire and bury it. It’s terrible.
whats wrong with necros lazy and easy mode for open pve farming . o0
I don’t think it’s that the build is lazy and easy. It’s just not that good. A few things I can see not well done:
1. You’re killing OW trash with a GS and none of the few damage multipliers necros have.
2. You’re traited in minions deep … but only using one permanent minion?
3. You’re slow because you didn’t trait RS signet or use daggers with RS trait
4. You have a trait that needs 4 stacks of bleed to work .. but you only make 2 with Staff
5. Back to #4 .. you’re missing lots of trait synergies … how come you didn’t trait Deathly chill to work with Blood Bond?
6. You have Sigil of Strength, not the best Sigil you could have.If you wanted lazy and easy, You would just go full minion with Axe/Dagger … Death, Spite, Blood. Game AI is not good so minions will always tank and you can hang back and AA all you like with the runspeed to get you around fast. Make no mistake though … boring. It’s also not really what the OP asked for; it’s certainly not the best for soloing or being fast.
Why minion deep? Got two tho. In build I did a mistake while making it. I am using blood fiend insted of CC. My bad. They are perfect agro. Backing up perma minions with rise. So kittens = 5 minions = more toughnes, more cleanse/transfer and reduced dmg. And thtat is why Augury of Death is used. To reduce recharg.
mark of blood + SoS = activating BB if needed (mainly for champs). So no need for DC so i went for more ferocity and attack speed while in shroud. And extra power from SoS comes in handy out of the shroud . Ofc for faster travel I switch to locust.
Since i’m doing clasical AOE farm, I need a weapon which hits more targets. Dagger have only 2 targets on hit while GS have 3 on auto attack and DS, rest have 5. And dmg with Gravedigger is usefull when u do +- 10k dmg on 5 mobs. And more targets = more heals + gravediggers health steal.Staff is good for kiting when minions are on cooldown.
If you are doing AOE farm you shouldnt be using minions at all. The build is bad, and your play is too from what you just said.
Everything you just describe is the exact opposite of going balls deep. It’s running around because you have no sustain, or damage, or tankyness, preventing your inevitable death.
I’m doing AOE easy without a swet, dying or runing around…
There is a reason we have shouts and wells, both which are aoe. Shouts having a much lower CD than every skill on staff when traited and hitting 5 targets, reducing the damage you take, have a fairly large aoe range, and do more damage than minions.
Staff is only really good at utility and LF regen, something which isnt really needed in trash situations because you gain stupid LF when things die. And on single target situations (like champions and legendaries) axe generates slightly less LF but has 2x more single target dmg. There is a reason all of the good staff builds are pvp and wvw, and PVE builds completely ignore it.
The build you posted does a bit of everything but it good at absolutely nothing. And that is what makes it a bad build. Good builds tend to have a purpose and intented use/situation.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I’m running with this : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0At0gN2AebCs3glpBTaAUACATtsLwHI+DWCfhA-TxRBABA8AAwTXwCHBAKV/xMlgXt/o8jiLBAA-e
going balls deep everytime without dying ^^
Kill that build with fire and bury it. It’s terrible.
whats wrong with necros lazy and easy mode for open pve farming . o0
I don’t think it’s that the build is lazy and easy. It’s just not that good. A few things I can see not well done:
1. You’re killing OW trash with a GS and none of the few damage multipliers necros have.
2. You’re traited in minions deep … but only using one permanent minion?
3. You’re slow because you didn’t trait RS signet or use daggers with RS trait
4. You have a trait that needs 4 stacks of bleed to work .. but you only make 2 with Staff
5. Back to #4 .. you’re missing lots of trait synergies … how come you didn’t trait Deathly chill to work with Blood Bond?
6. You have Sigil of Strength, not the best Sigil you could have.If you wanted lazy and easy, You would just go full minion with Axe/Dagger … Death, Spite, Blood. Game AI is not good so minions will always tank and you can hang back and AA all you like with the runspeed to get you around fast. Make no mistake though … boring. It’s also not really what the OP asked for; it’s certainly not the best for soloing or being fast.
Why minion deep? Got two tho. In build I did a mistake while making it. I am using blood fiend insted of CC. My bad. They are perfect agro. Backing up perma minions with rise. So kittens = 5 minions = more toughnes, more cleanse/transfer and reduced dmg. And thtat is why Augury of Death is used. To reduce recharg.
mark of blood + SoS = activating BB if needed (mainly for champs). So no need for DC so i went for more ferocity and attack speed while in shroud. And extra power from SoS comes in handy out of the shroud . Ofc for faster travel I switch to locust.
Since i’m doing clasical AOE farm, I need a weapon which hits more targets. Dagger have only 2 targets on hit while GS have 3 on auto attack and DS, rest have 5. And dmg with Gravedigger is usefull when u do +- 10k dmg on 5 mobs. And more targets = more heals + gravediggers health steal.Staff is good for kiting when minions are on cooldown.
If you are doing AOE farm you shouldnt be using minions at all. The build is bad, and your play is too from what you just said.
Everything you just describe is the exact opposite of going balls deep. It’s running around because you have no sustain, or damage, or tankyness, preventing your inevitable death.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
Necros are actually great at dungeons now since they do have great burst with power setups.
You’re kidding right? Power necro DPS isn’t bursty at all. Not in the sense of actual burst. If you bothered to play a power necro you would realize its dps is very consistent until 50% hp. And then spike, and remain consistent at that point. Grave digger is pretty much the only hard hitting thing, and even then its not ‘great’ burst. Its actually underwhelming if you keep track of its actual dps.
Hell a power warrior is way more bursty than a power necro is.
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Don’t even bother playing necro in dungeons. Problem solved. Just don’t.
O_o so, uh, counterbalancing, I’ve had no problem at all with condition necromancer in dungeons. It’s not notably slow, not holding folks back, and I usually contribute well enough to the damage meters — especially bosses — that I’m close to the top damage.
(Often, in fact, top, if there is a period where you have to range out to avoid mechanics or something, since scepter + dots means I lose less damage to it than melee…)
Or you can burst the boss and avoid the mechanics? The whole reason you need to range and avoid them is because you lacked damage, which you then try to quantify by saying its not notably slow. In fact, it is.
Scepter+dots mean you are doing less dmg btw. By the time your damage ramps up to acceptable levels, the boss would already be dead if you were any good.
Most dungeon bosses dont even last a full rotation with a good party.
There is no ‘counterbalance’ to this. Necro isn’t that good in dungeons, period. It only seems good when you have a bad party, and/or are a bad player. At that point everything ‘seems’ good. Play what you feel like playing, but don’t come up with half baked justifications for why it ‘not holding people back’ or ‘not slow’, when it IS notably slow.
And this is coming from a person with multiple necros. I love the class, but im not going to delude myself into thinking its good doing something its not.
Slightly off topic, but as someone with multiple necros, where would you say they excel if they suck so much at dungeons/fractals? (I’m a new player but thinking of making a necro right now)
Necro’s excel at attrition and basic trivial survival. They basically make hard content easy, but are not optimal in the slightest. Think of the class like a good starting point, but once you become a better player, running other things will net better results. You can survive better on a necro than an ele for instance, but you will reach a certain point where necros slightly higher base hp, and sustain, means nothing to you. Because you won’t need it. Especially in raids and dungeons. Why do you need to range to avoid dungeon mechanics when most bosses die in 10-15 secs flat with proper play? Every class gets 2 dodges. You normally don’t even need those in that time.
I love necro’s but they lack potential, not just damage, but defense as well, because of how binary they are designed.
Viod vector worded his comment much better than mine, so i will have to agree with him on that.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I have found that the DR kicks in way to fast in Lake Doric for this type of farm to be of any real use, I personally find my drop rates in LD going down to near nothing after about 20-30 mins, I don’t know how some people are saying they farmed it for hours?
I find it strange that some people seem to get loot from 1 map even after farming it for hours, and others get nothing after 20 mins, seems DR doesn’t affect everyone the same.
Thats simple. Because everyone knows diminishing returns only effect events, not mobs.
Don’t talk about the concept when you don’t appear to understand it fully.
Diminishing returns only applies to events. Not individual mob kills.
Maybe you should do research yourself.
’’Affected activities
Dungeons, in which the completion rewards for an account are cut severely after the first run for each path.
Open world:
Dynamic events, in which the completion rewards are reduced for a given character after clearing or failing a total of 10 events.
Loot from enemies, in which foes tend to drop less loot of progressively lower quality, for a character remaining in the same area for long periods of time.’’After a while you get little to no loot from mobs.
After doing this for about 6 hrs the other day while working on a painting. I will have to say this is categorically false. I’m one of those people that measure how much loot i get over time because i always have my bag clean once its full, its extremely constant, and while the wiki may say that. Results are proving otherwise. The wiki says a lot of things that are incorrect. It’s not really a source. Nor is it exactly what i mean. It seems we are on two different pages.
It depends on how you define diminishing returns as well. I’m not using the wiki’s statement, but the actual concept. The rewards for events get worse and worse the more you continue to do events. While dungeons its a once a day chest, and then a static reward for further runs. I wouldn’t call the diminishing, but thats just me.
I’m running with this : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0At0gN2AebCs3glpBTaAUACATtsLwHI+DWCfhA-TxRBABA8AAwTXwCHBAKV/xMlgXt/o8jiLBAA-e
going balls deep everytime without dying ^^
Kill that build with fire and bury it. It’s terrible.
Don’t even bother playing necro in dungeons. Problem solved. Just don’t.
O_o so, uh, counterbalancing, I’ve had no problem at all with condition necromancer in dungeons. It’s not notably slow, not holding folks back, and I usually contribute well enough to the damage meters — especially bosses — that I’m close to the top damage.
(Often, in fact, top, if there is a period where you have to range out to avoid mechanics or something, since scepter + dots means I lose less damage to it than melee…)
Or you can burst the boss and avoid the mechanics? The whole reason you need to range and avoid them is because you lacked damage, which you then try to quantify by saying its not notably slow. In fact, it is.
Scepter+dots mean you are doing less dmg btw. By the time your damage ramps up to acceptable levels, the boss would already be dead if you were any good.
Most dungeon bosses dont even last a full rotation with a good party.
There is no ‘counterbalance’ to this. Necro isn’t that good in dungeons, period. It only seems good when you have a bad party, and/or are a bad player. At that point everything ‘seems’ good. Play what you feel like playing, but don’t come up with half baked justifications for why it ‘not holding people back’ or ‘not slow’, when it IS notably slow.
And this is coming from a person with multiple necros. I love the class, but im not going to delude myself into thinking its good doing something its not.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I have found that the DR kicks in way to fast in Lake Doric for this type of farm to be of any real use, I personally find my drop rates in LD going down to near nothing after about 20-30 mins, I don’t know how some people are saying they farmed it for hours?
I find it strange that some people seem to get loot from 1 map even after farming it for hours, and others get nothing after 20 mins, seems DR doesn’t affect everyone the same.
Thats simple. Because everyone knows diminishing returns only effect events, not mobs.
Don’t talk about the concept when you don’t appear to understand it fully.
Diminishing returns only applies to events. Not individual mob kills.
I saw this for the first time today. I have to wonder, is this more profitable than running up and down the loop?
No. You earn about half what you would.
That’s what I figured. I guess people got tired of it and created an easy way. I can’t really blame them really.
Actually id argue is just as profitable. I made 31 g just from the t6 leather mi got doing this for about 6hrs this morning. This isnt even including the 4 stacks of heavy supply bags i opened which gave me over 1 stack of t5 leather. its definately arguable once you compare prices of all the leather, as the t1-4 leather is more common from slavging warped hides. Hell i got 989 silk scraps as well.
Don’t even bother playing necro in dungeons. Problem solved. Just don’t.
If your dps is low as a condi PS, you need to work on your rotations. I can pull 15 minimum on my condi PS in most raids.
If you are bad at dpsing on condi PS, ele is the last class you should be looking at, as its rotation is way more complex. Ele is still the top, because the people who do it well are also at the top. A bad ele does less dps than any other dps build.
Condi ranger, DH, power engi, easiest dps rotation. You shouldn’t be concerned about ‘bringing something to the table’, as thats what raid roles are for. Fullfill your role, and you would have done your job.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
Nice of you to make these assertions. I was using this strat before Brazil even made the video. Before HoT even.
Despite the strat requiring a semi organised team to pull off? Aka, spotter, disc banner and fury (for the less than 30% precision build). And the actual Reaper spec since Death Perception only works in shroud and Death Shroud is utter kitten on its own.
You pretty much just described every raid and meta build in existence.
So much for using this strat pre HoT and whilst solo running.
Still used it then. Spotter, fury, and banners aren’t exactly rare you know. Tbh its no different than running full berserker on any other class than can’t force its crit rate up.
As for you people saying death shroud isn’t optimal damage. I think they really don’t understand how little damage a necro does without party buffs outside of DS.
It’s the easiest AFK farm build in the game. If they’re actually running around, I can’t say for sure why MM in particular, though.
its because with blood and dead magic specced the minions dont die.
Nice of you to make these assertions. I was using this strat before Brazil even made the video. Before HoT even.
Despite the strat requiring a semi organised team to pull off? Aka, spotter, disc banner and fury (for the less than 30% precision build). And the actual Reaper spec since Death Perception only works in shroud and Death Shroud is utter kitten on its own.
You pretty much just described every raid and meta build in existence.
TLDR:
Percent Traits don’t do anything outlandish.
Maybe Percent Proc Rates need to be added to Death Blossom and Impaling Lotus to counter Condi Thief’s benefit from groups.
Thief is pure melee, brings no group buffs, and Venomshare can only work in a group setting with 1 per group. Shouldn’t it be warranted to have somewhat higher DPS?
Power necro would like to have a word with you.
I find the orbs on the altars that you capture after MAMA to be a lot more frustrating, no matter how we position ourselves it’s almost impossible to not get hit by agony and keep getting agony applied to you the whole time. No we aren’t getting hit by the orbs either, it seems just being near them causes agony which makes me wonder if this is an intended mechanic. Doesn’t happen in Ensolyss either and we all have stable ping in the 30-60 range.
Anyone else run into this problem with orbs?
No, the mechanics is that the circle causes agony, and the orbs deal flat damage. As long as you remain in the circle you will experience agony.
Power Ranger buff, HELL YES. That short buff in Feb 22 wasn’t enough.
Same exact story as Power Necro.
Condi ranger already suffered a minor DPS loss, leave it be.
It’s also nice seeing vanilla rangers being used. Esp since pre-hot they were DETESTED. It was truly, TRULY irritating getting kicked for simply being a ranger. They’re not that big a problem to consider nerfing. Don’t want to go back to those times I was forced to play anything but Ranger for DPS.
Let’s not forget they are pretty kitten squishy along with condi Warr (yes, really).Condi thief would be nice in PvE also, there’s something needing slight tweaks.
Only thing annoying me is bad rangers that play condi ranger when the group needs healing, then switch to druid and never heal. Its becoming extremely common these days.
I’ve been playing a hybrid shout reaper. It’s pretty good in teamfights without a lot of power burst on the enemy team.
I’ve seen this video before. Chances are the theif was wearing zerker gear. And you also forgot you have quickness, which is a night and day difference. It’s not instakill anyone. It’s instakill a squishy. Which a dragon hunter can do in the same amount of time, while blocking damage.
You ALSO forgot to mention that you are running almost full glass. Especially since the base HP of a reaper is about 20.3k, and yours is slightly above that. Meaning that the gear is probably marauder.
If your enemies were running proper gear in wvw you would do way less damage. Using selected clicks to prove a point about a particular scenario does nothing to make a case about the overall health of power reaper.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
" As the tankiest guy in the group"
I’m pretty sure my minstrel chrono is tankier. Celestial stats aren’t good for a variety of reasons. It’s not simply because they provide defensive stats, its because they serve no purity of purpose. It’s meh at everything.
Also powerful potion don’t work in all content. in fact there is a lot of content where they don’t (like all of the HoT maps).
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I miss the old defiance system, used to try to time magnet and pull megadestroyer onto brain afk people pressing 1 and wipe half the map. You just can’t do fun stuff like that anymore to world bosses…
Oh wow. Well i suppose its a matter of most ppl having fun rather than 1 guy having a blast i suppose xD
No, people need to learn to respect world bosses again >:(
Ehh idk introducing arena wipe attacks in worldbosses for when ppl dont bother to pay attention to mechanics?
Nah just give them defiance again, me and my spear of justice will do the rest…
I approve of this.
“Power doesn’t need more buffs; "
I can’t take anyone who says that seriously.
Then don’t; I don’t need to explain my case to people with no comprehension of the bigger picture.
>Doesn’t say what the bigger picture is.
Oh do explain how power necro is ‘just fine’ oh enlightened one. Apparently you have some secret information us mere mortals are not privy to.
Especially when you contradict yourself a few lines below.
“The problem with Power Reaper is that it’s tied to Reaper: a melee heavy spec with poor access to active mitigation. It gets kited and trained easily enough, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t do stuff like this: "
snip.
Again you’re talking about testing dps on a non offensive static golem. That kind of makes any attempt at solo dps pointless for open world.
And I guess you’re talking about Brazil’s 30% precision necro build? So your previous statement about precision being always useless is wrong. Trying to deflect isn’t going to work when you make silly absolute claims.
Deflect? Brazil?
Nice of you to make these assertions. I was using this strat before Brazil even made the video. Before HoT even.
Precision is always useless on a necro mancer because it can be supplemented easily with the meta traits for necromancer. However , its up to the player to decide if they want to do that.
Useless=not needed in a general sense. Just like when people say defensive stats in pve are useless. They aren’t actually useless, but not needed in a general sense. Nice attempt to twist the meaning of what I said, but you are gonna have to try harder. Instead of seeming awfully pedantic.
As for the comment about a static dps golem, you have described pretty much most of the open world. Are you trying to say there is much of a difference? I don’t work under the assumption i have a zerg of other players with me. The fact i need to even explain why solo dps is important is beyond me.
As for Obtena’s comment about gaurdian needing traveler runes? Why use those when you can have perma swiftness?
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
“Power doesn’t need more buffs; "
I can’t take anyone who says that seriously.
True, however. Groups will still accept you in the dps role on a condi PS, if you just swap your traits to dps traits, even without changing sigils. I’ve done it several times and groups tend to have no issue.
If your going to do this, please be upfront and tell the group your not actually running dps warrior. My group has had 2 (and only 2) supposedly dps warriors join us, only for their dps to be below our condi ps’s dps. As a result, my group developed a bad perception of dps warriors as being bad builds. Fortunately we had a good warrior join recently, but still community perceptions are quick to develop and slow to change.
No, this is assuming you spoke to the group about it. The only time i do that is when we get like 4 warriors or something like that(which is very common these days). Which i just say ill swap to dps triats, and people have no issue with it.
There is a difference between that, trying to fill in as a dps warrior, and just saying that you will change your traits for more dps because you have too many warriors. I hope that cleared things up.
Borderline useless, vs precision, which is always useless.
As someone that has just called into question another person’s ability to play necro, I have to do the same with you. The idea that precision is wasted because necro can have 100% crit chance without any investment is just kitten. You won’t be doing optimal damage if you sit in shroud the whole fight.
Actually that is kind of incorrect. I’ve done several dps test to show a necro does more damage with a shroud soulreaping build than using any other spec for power when doing solo dps.
The only time the damage is suboptimal is when other people are providing buffs which certain isnt the case in open world pve.
If you don’t believe me go test for yourself. Maybe people should stop relying on raid benchmarks for optimal dps numbers when raid benchmarks are done with full party buffs.
And also the idea that precision is waste because necro can get 100% crit, is the whole reason raid builds didn’t use soul reaping.
If you don’t understand why that statement was made (especially when you consider just a few peices of berzerker/valk trinkets with stray fury can cap precision on a necro). But you wouldn’t know that unless you have done it. Which i have. Several times over.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I don’t have access to 2h sword yet and I only have “of the Necromancer” gear and only 90 gold on my account. Should I just stick with the gear or buy something with power and vitality?
90 gold should get you a full zerk set in exotic, including all weapons and runes.
As for power/vitality: unless you are doing WvW, vitality on a necro is borderline useless. You already have a high hit point pool. Plus you have a second health bar with shroud. In Open world Pve and fractals/dungeons, go zerk. You shouldn’t really die in full zerk in open world pve.
Borderline useless, vs precision, which is always useless.
Do you even play necro man? Why should anyone buy a full zerk exotic set when you can basically get one for free?
Also shroud isn’t a ‘second health bar’. Anyone that truly plays necro knows that this is a misunderstanding of how shroud works, which is why the vitality, on a class with no blocks, isn’t useless.
Especially when you say things like “Too slow and outperformed by dagger.” In regards to GS, which is patently false.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
I ran a raid with the individual earlier. Would not do that again.
Lets just say competency isnt their strong suit (not the OP but the person who asked for a kick).
I’ll be talking about power necro mostly.
Valkyrie and carrion are good subs. You can get exotic gear for free though from Verdant brink, and dragons stand.
I don’t suggest temple gear, as karma is worth a lot of gold now, but that option is there as well. You can buy berserker gear at the Grenth temple in cursed Shore. You will need about 250-300k karma for a set.
There is also the option of using WvW badges, which will give you cheap exotic armor from wvw armor outfitter. I suggest carrion or zerker stats.
When you unlock Reaper you get a free GS right away. That will cover your weapon. You can get a free ascended GS from the trahearne current event which unlocks the reset after you finish the HoT story. You also have the choice of doing the Dark Harvest asc GS which requires more masteries, but no story.
For runes, exotic runes here are a few good extremely cheap options that i use on pretty much every toon that isnt raid ready til i put in something better..
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Hoelbrak
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Ogre
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Vampirism
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Wurm
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Rage
I personally use rune of the wurm on my power necro, as necromancers dont need precision, it double dips for shroud. And i always crit, which means i always get the ferocity on my hits.
Most of these runes are quite cheap as well, some only a few silver. Its all about picking your poison.
That would easily be the Berserker, since it can fill both the roles of the Burnzerker, or the condi-PS. every raid party will want 2 berserkers so you basically join 20% of the raiding facility. After that, they can do fairly decent DPS as a burnzerker, so you’re flexible too. Engineer’s aren’t unwanted in raids, but I think it will be easier to pug and get into groups/raids with a berserker
I agree that the condi ps is better to gear up, as it has a more assured role in raids, OP should be aware that condi ps and burnzerker run different runes and sigils. So its not like you can have a single set of armor and weapons and fill both roles (well, unless legendary armor comes with a revamp to how legendary equipment handles upgrades).
True, however. Groups will still accept you in the dps role on a condi PS, if you just swap your traits to dps traits, even without changing sigils. I’ve done it several times and groups tend to have no issue.
Geomancy applies longer bleeding compared to hydromancy with deathly chill. Usually reapers are taken in pairs to bounce epidemics, so chill uptime should be around 100% even without additional help from the sigil.
BUT, for open world/fractals if you dont want to use toxic focusing crystals you can use setup with 4runes of nightmare + 2runes of the trapper. Then you dont need sigil that gives 10% condi duration so you can either take sigil with 10% condi damage OR hydromancy for better chill uptime (helpfull when you have to solo something, when you are the only reaper in the group or when the boss can heal condis).
Sigil of bursting is garbage. Don’t use it in condi builds. The 6% only works off base condition damage, making it worthless, and the main reason it is never ever used in builds.
Chill on crit would net overall higher dps than sigil of bursting.
I do believe this should not have been labelled as an “exploit” since literally every factor involved was behaving exactly as designed and intended. What wasn’t intended was the result from the synergy.
Yes, it absolutely needed to get nerfed. I certainly won’t argue against that. Calling it an exploit, though, is uncalled for.
I mean, that’s kind of the definition of an exploit though. No single build was meant to be able to stack so many bleeds so quickly, and since it wasn’t intended behavior then something that would allow you to do that would be an exploit.
No no no. An exploit would have been if there was something wrong that allowed you to stack that many bleeds that wasn’t intended.
What was unintended was the synergy between these two things, but they were both behaving as intended. It would be different if anet didnt intend for bleeds to apply on chill, or chill to apply on crits with frost gun. The result is synergy…not an exploit.
It’s not inaccurate that Anet didn’t make a post about ghost thief … inconsistent, yup, but not inaccurate. You don’t know if Anet considers ghost thief an exploit or not. kittenumptions don’t make good points.
Do you even read? Are you daft?
Or just dense as ascalonian bricks?
The point was if they consider one an exploit then to be consistent they would have to consider the other the same.
The fact you missed that after he rephrased it like 10 times is astounding. Or are you just feinting ignorance?
How am I daft? I’m simply saying they don’t need to announce other exploits like they did for Frost Gun. It’s a case by case consideration. Maybe it’s YOU that need to read.
So basically you would treat your MMO players like abused children and personal moderators for your short comings. Nice to know.
No, actually, I would hope to treat them like mature, responsible adults that have a clue about how MMOs work, avoid putting their game access at risk for using obviously exploitable situations and how to behave when playing them.
Being mature doesn’t mean handling a situation in the way in which you think it should be handled.
I wish people would stop using ‘mature’ as a buzzword cause it doesn’t actually mean squat. Unless you define it, it means nothing, and even then, EVEN THEN, people might, or will, and can disagree.
The scenario you just described is a dictators wet dream. You can’t even dare to call yourself a responsible adult if you can’t even admit a forgotten items is ANETs burden, not the players.
Finding synergies is the core of MMO builds. The fact you would call that ‘obviously not intended’ shows how out of touch with reality you are as a human being. I’m done with this topic.
Obviously exploit has a certain connotation in MMOs and I think with the use of that language, they want to send a message.
Or instead of sending a message they should have just disabled the gun without trying to paint those that used it as filthy exploiters ruining the integrity of the game. Because that’s the ‘message’ they are sending.
It doesn’t look good on them, and for you to sit here and say that an unintended interaction (non-bug related) is enough of a reason to ban a player, then i hope you never ever manage an MMO. Because your players would be leaving left and right.
That’s like accusing someone of kitten after you slept with them of your own will because you found out something about them you didnt like, or you felt bad afterwards. It’s bull kitten.
It’s the lesser of two evils, and it’s an easy way to deliver the message they want to send. Is there a better way? Maybe but I think this way is effective.
I would like to hope that if I did manage an MMO, the players wouldn’t be so clueless about the game mechanics that if they did encounter a frost gun situation, they would know enough to question it, report it and stay as far away from using it as possible. But lets be fair … has anyone been banned by Anet for using this? Let’s not pretend anything I think or might do reflects on the actual situation here.
So basically you would treat your MMO players like abused children and personal moderators for your short comings. Nice to know.
It’s not inaccurate that Anet didn’t make a post about ghost thief … inconsistent, yup, but not inaccurate. You don’t know if Anet considers ghost thief an exploit or not. kittenumptions don’t make good points.
Do you even read? Are you daft?
Or just dense as ascalonian bricks?
The point was if they consider one an exploit then to be consistent they would have to consider the other the same.
The fact you missed that after he rephrased it like 10 times is astounding. Or are you just feinting ignorance?
Obviously exploit has a certain connotation in MMOs and I think with the use of that language, they want to send a message.
Or instead of sending a message they should have just disabled the gun without trying to paint those that used it as filthy exploiters ruining the integrity of the game. Because that’s the ‘message’ they are sending.
It doesn’t look good on them, and for you to sit here and say that an unintended interaction (non-bug related) is enough of a reason to ban a player, then i hope you never ever manage an MMO. Because your players would be leaving left and right.
(edited by FrostDraco.8306)
The point is, Anet can define it as an exploit. We think Anet is wrong in doing so, simply based on the usage of the word exploit, and what its definition is, and its connotation.
I don’t see how that is so hard for you to understand.
Anet can only determine what they ‘consider’ an exploit. Calling it such doesn’t make it so.
Anet is wrong. It’s that simple.
Yea, my build is pretty close tothe one slippy posted. Tho I figured it out on my own. With the right trait selections even greatsword is effective condition wise against multiple enemies.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYRnc0AV3gtbCe3A0biFjBjKIEFqVx5wf4RM6nFAOAA-Tpw+AAQZAc/BA
You do realize that not taking blinding darkness defeats the reason of taking a GS on a condi build right?
Anyone that thinks they can just rush out, apologize for all the ‘mistakes’ and fix every exploit in the game has a very unrealistic view of how MMO’s are developed.
I think you mean every over sight issue. Because that is how bugs and exploits happen. Unlike you possibly, I actually have experience developing games.
And I would never call accidental synergy between two things that both worked as intended, an exploit. Abusive? Maybe. But an exploit? I think you need to look up the meaning of that word, because you clearly have no idea.
And that’s not a semantic argument, as you attempted to call it earlier. You are just plain incorrect.
Anet fixing this situation is an admission of the mistake that was made here; like I already pointed out to you, these situations are typically the result of the developer creating the situation so there is no way for Anet to avoid that admission.
You simply don’t like the fact that they correctly identify players for abusing it and sending a warning. It’s the player’s risk to ignore this warning. Presenting irrelevant, alternative exploitable situations would be considered rather weak evidence to justify exploiting, but that’s just me I guess.
That really is just you, because every other person identifies that as the proper way to present an argument. The fact that you label relevant evidence as irrelevant, then finish off with ‘Arenanet can do whatever they like’ is deflection.
No. They could’ve admitted they made a mistake by saying ‘we neglected to update this skill after changes to deathly chill was made, .’. this item is locked for the time being’. That’s how you admit a mistake.
Ghost thief changes and frostgun changes are the ideal comparison scenarios, both scenarios involve players using skills that have not mechanically faulted, but the synergy in the context they reside in produced an unintended effect. Yet one is labelled as an exploit and one is not, and you have failed to answer that.
Exactly. It’s a double standard. Rather than admit this item was overlooked the users are made out to be exploiters. Where is the exploit?
Is it in the frost gun itself? Well it was used as it was designed, and did as it was designed to do.
Was it using the frost gun in combination with deathly chill? So now using anything in combination with deathly chill is an exploit? Cause that is the precedent you are setting.
Was it the abuse of deathly chill itself? The only thing that even allows condi necros (the only truely viable dps spec) to have competative dps?
Either kittening fix the issue with deathly chill not being properly designed, or kitten about people using it as a means of damage. This is the corner Anet has paited necromancer into. Either the class is hell trash, or it literally breaks fight mechanics because of bad/broken design.
See Mursaat over seem, and deimos for more.
See WvW for more.
See lifesteal for more.
It would be different if Anet made a statement on this particular case unlike with the auto skill cast botting scenario, but they have not.
Wrong. My necro can survive both of these attacks without death magic or shroud.
Like I said, if you are dying to either of these its because you failed the mechanic. As for the 15% phase, you will still die anyway because of the feild outside of the bubble, which does % hp dmg.
Elitist much? “I can survive it, so that must be the universal truth”
If you want others to learn and become experienced with the mechanics, you must provide them the road to get there. Telling new players to ALWAYS run min-max “flavor of the month” build is not the answer.
How is proper information Elitism?
You aren’t helping any new players by promoting bad habits. The faster a players gets used to the idea of dodging mechanics rather than taking them to the face, the better off that player will be.
I would agree if it were a more forgiving fight where rez’ing other players is easy, but that’s not the case in 100cm.
How you suppose they learn when if they were to die, they either:
- they miss out on most of fight, thus not able to experience/practice other mechanics?
- they snowball the whole team to a wipe?
ADDED: Also playing with the build variants, you would also learn about other trait lines, thus insight into “build crafting”, something blindly following meta wouldn’t get you.
Actually the easiest way to res in 100 Cm Ensolyss on necro is by using your poison feild or the spectral agony on the boss, which will hit the hallucinations and res you when they die through cleave or despawn.
What ever happened to the idea of progression? there is no rule that says you must experience 100% of a fight if you can’t properly do the mechanics that allow you to experience it. I’d much rather a player run without death magic and take sustain from blood magic, as it allows them to live easier, but still actually get a good idea of how much damage things actually do, which is more useful in learning than just being a meatsheild.
Especially once you factor in that your whole group benefits from it, and protection is more common than innate toughness, if you are running wells.
There is nothing wrong with using Necro as a learning tool. Necro allow you to learn many more fights without dying and dragging down the group. However, you should still learn the mechanics and learn to avoid it. Don’t become complacent.
The one-shot is consistent; it’ll one shot everyone regardless of how tanky you are.
There are at least two mechanics you can survive with Death Magic, while with other variants you would likely be downed.
- “Downward stab, shockwave, hallucination” attack
- “charging across the platform” attack during <15% phase
Though in both cases you can only survive 1 extra hit even with Death Magic, so if you mess up twice in the same attack chain, you would still go down.
Wrong. My necro can survive both of these attacks without death magic or shroud.
Like I said, if you are dying to either of these its because you failed the mechanic. As for the 15% phase, you will still die anyway because of the feild outside of the bubble, which does % hp dmg.
Thank you all for the replies, very helpful.
Necro isn’t my main and I’m back recently after a very long break so I don’t have access to a ton of ascended gear in boxes and the crafting cost is high for me to make a set. I’m interested in a necro to be able to easily pug my T4s daily and be as effective as possible. I do it on other classes at the moment but there are a lot of necro only groups and they do appear very sturdy/effective when they are in my group compared to everything else.
I’m mainly trying to nail down a armor/rune weapon/sigil ascended set with confidence that I won’t have regrets on the choices for gold spending reasons. Trait swapping I’m not worried but the advice was helpful none the less to help me get an understanding. Thanks!
I’m gonna be honest with you, most of the people who rely on those groups are bad players to begin with. While necro is good at trivializing hard content, overall if the players are bad, even a necro party wont make the difference.
There are 3 variants of that build. The rotation is pretty much the same.
Curse and Reaper specializations are set in stone, but the 3rd line can be Soul Reaping, Blood or Death Magic.
Soul Reaping – more DPS
Blood Magic – more support (Vampiric aura, Last Rites, tele-rez)
Death Magic – more tanky, usually beneficial against one-shot kill situations (e.g. last boss in 100cm)You can find the other variants here: http://qtfy.eu/build/necromancer
“Death Magic – more tanky,”*
Fixed that for you. If you get once shot by the final boss in 100 CM its because you failed to do the mechanic.
Going back to the op’s original, I can understand the frustration of t4 fractals being difficult on various classes. I’ve done t4 fractals as a berserker, scrapper, herald, daredevil, and tempest, and found that reaper is the easiest. I’ve done it with berzerker stats: works just fine. Made the switch to carrion just to try it out: works just fine with a lot more survivability. Either way, you can pretty much just facetank bosses and go get a cookie.
I’ve never consulted metabattle for fractals because there are many viable builds.
Might as well just go viper. I think you and meta battle, and most good players, have different views on what viable means.
Just because you can get away with using something bad, doesn’t make that thing good or viable. It just means you got carried. There are plenty of viable builds that aren’t on meta battle, like commander chrono, but carrion necro, certainly isnt one of them.
I’m fairly certain it’d be epidemic. My first thought when I saw the title, though, is the rifle gun thing that’s going around.
That’s PvE only. Can’t even be used in dungeons or fractals, or raids.
That’s what you get/inflict when you’re a necromancer.
— I majored in pain, with a minor in suffering
Lmao i concur.
Of course you’d kick them, its not a good dungeon build at all. Its designed to eat damage from mobs, allowing you to not have to dodge to survive.
Its a decent build for people who are struggling to stay alive, but ultimately I feel that stuff like this may hurt people in the long run, because it teaches them to eat damage.
Not only does this teach people to eat damage rather than block or evade. Also the set up is terrible even at what its trying to do. Like for instance hamfisting a scepter into a build that supposed to eat damage when sword does a better job. Or using sword offhand, when sword offhand is used for damage, while sheild is the tanking offhand.
Im of the opinion that a build should supplement good play, not the other way around.
If you are struggling to stay alive, a build wont help that, because it too will be used improperly.
After playing all sorts of variations. I feel this is a terrible build. Especially once you used scepter and sword over Sword and sheild.
Sword offhand phantasm is used for damage, and while sword has a block, there is zero sustained blocking. Because unlike Sheild, you dont get a double block.
Scepter is awful unless you are going full condi, why even bother? It has one block? Just use sword, it has distortion, boon strip, and immob.
If this build is meant to be without chronomancer, there are way better options, like a mesmer version of the distortion chrono tank. Which has ridiculous evade time.
Not only is this terrible in pve, for damage, even for the tanking aspect, the only saving grace is keeping yourself alive. Mesmers are a utility class. This provides almost no party utility.
To be quite frank. If someone came into my dungeon run using this, I’d kick them without a second thought.