Guild Wars 2

NinjaEd.3946:

OP.

I am going to ask a series of difficult questions that may harm your lifestyle or render your gaming days as no longer possible.

1. Have you built this sort of invulnerable thief?

2. If so, how did it work?

3. If not, please stop.

If you knew anything about thief dps/utility you would know what goes into it and the sacrafises that are made. L2p sir or ma’am.

Agreed.

OP: show us how easy it is to just make a thief and just own everything. Then we can talk.

Some here actually think thief is immortal and does insanely much damage. Well, our damage come in bursts, not sustained. And that’s just how it’s supposed to be. We have to stay awake and be quick on our feet, or we die.

I agree that most of the world bosses are too easy, especially the dragons that you are told to fear – until you actually face one and just laugh… Remove those safe spots and have it so you have to dodge and use all your skills to have any chance, and even then it should require some sick team work to actually kill the dragon. They’re after all world bosses, not spam 1 and get the event bosses…

Fighting a dragon should be just as difficult as fighting a player.

As other have said, he was probably just chain stealthing and killing the Dolyak with CnD only. But here’s an idea for how to counter: count how many seconds the thief are in stealth and learn his rhythm (probably 3 seconds if he was a glass). Then use knockback just before you anticipate his CnD. This would have him waste initiative and leave him vulnerable. Then burst him down (which mesmers are masters at doing).

But my idea has always been to add 3 seconds of revealed even if the thief doesn’t attack from stealth.

Manuhell.2759:

Guess it may be the only way to try balancing that class. The problem with the lack of cooldown/initiative costs is that, as now, there is basically no incentive to use something other than the “best” skill, simply cause you can do that, aside from few strategical choices.

Thief was designed to be a quick in and out of combat class. We move in for the kill and disappear again. Any good thief will never really spam an ability, because there is really no “best” skill. I use all skills on my weapon set for different reasons, and I rarely do any spamming. We can’t spam any ability and actually kill someone, except for those bad players just standing there…

Try a thief and you’ll understand.

DrixTrix.7168:

I disagree, D/P played well is a pain and very hard to beat but for the most part D/P thieves are just spamming like the others.

the only thing that gives you guys n gals (thief’s) a bad name are the people spamming heart-seeker, you instantly know if a thief’s worth anything its either ‘’spam spam spam’’ and still net a good amount of damage or its a ‘’hit, hide, hit, hide, hide, hide, smash and grab, hide’’ etc no matter the spec thief’s i meet tend to go into stealth, except the artful dodgers bunker trait lines.

i personally think thief s are easy to pick up and win(newer players) / damage people to there hearts content but difficult to truly play to there full potential, especially with S/D and to be honest D/P is not that easy either, its the stealth people moan about and that’s it, so i’m afraid thief’s will always be called what your being called unless stealth is tuned down which i really do NOT think should ever happen, its a core class mechanic.

on the other hand, while being difficult to catch that’s what there all about, once caught they dip in HP like a asteroid plummeting from space.

I completely agree with you. Easy for new players to kill equals, but really tough to master.

To the OP:
They could fix much of the stealth qqing by making it impossible to stack stealth and give 3 seconds of revealed each time you leave stealth, for any reason. One more thing could be to have any physical attack reveal the thief and have channels broken if the thief stealths while being channeled. That would fix a lot, and force us thieves to be more selective of when to stealth – in other words: more skilled play.

Real men use S/P.

D/P with health regen, initiative regen and condition removal on stealth is powerful if played right. You’re regenerating so much hp and blinding your enemy that you really doesn’t need soldier gear. It works nice with pure berserker gear actually, but you can use Valkyrie for more health if you feel you need it.

If you want to go tanky as in no stealth I would recommend S/P with 10/0/0/30/30 as one type. Lots of health and initiative regen while you still keep good pressure. You can dodge all the time and the time you’re not evading you’re either blinding or interrupting your enemy ;p

I remember someone writing a detailed mathematical post on how much damage it’s possible to get out of backstab as a solo thief. And those numbers were much higher than what you’re doing here, but they required a setup no one is going to bother doing, so they won’t happen too often.

As people have stated, it’s rare to see anyone get off a BS that high. And the reason might be damaged gear, blue gear, frenzy (warrior) or any other debuff / buff that helped. WvW is a bad example unless you’re meeting someone, let them show their stats and then do a backstab to show us how deadly it can be….

I have never been hit by a backstab over 9k on any class – any build. So I’m still wondering where these mystical backstabbing thieves are…

In hot joins I see a lot of rangers and mesmers. Those thieves that show up are usually useless and dead 90% of the match..

If I ever find myself in the middle of a Zerg fight I’ll move behind enemy lines and killing the casters / rangers in the back. Or eliminating other thieves using SB. That’s at least what I find most useful and fun to do.

swinsk.6410:

Get rid of D/D and use D/P. You can literally just sit there and hit 5, spam 1.

Don’t even need to move.

I farm supply camps solo with full zerkers/scholars.

You need black powder.

If you’re just going to do 5+1 I’d go with sword instead. AoE damage, interrupt, cripple, weakness and blind. That would be a much stronger option. Doing the Dagger Storm combo followed by some pistol whips with quickness kills the camp in no time.

If you’re having a pistol off-hand it doesn’t really matter what you kill after you’ve killed the scouts, because they will all cluster up in your blind field and do no damage what so ever.

As others have said, if there’s additional guards (quaggans, dredge) or it’s fully upgraded, then it will be tough, but not impossible…

First you need to switch some utilities. Signet of Malice, smoke screen and dagger storm is preferred here.

Gain stealth and run right into the middle of the camp. Drop smoke screen and the do a dagger storm while in the smoke screen. This will damage all the mobs a lot, and you’ll block all projectiles and blind all the mobs while you’re healing a LOT because of Signet of Malice.

After this you just kill the mobs as usual in the following order:

• Scout (they blind and deal a lot of damage)
• Ranged mobs
• Guards (lots of damage and crowd control)
• Melee mobs
• Quartermaster

I sometimes engage and kill a scout before dropping smoke screen and using dagger storm, this because dagger storm will heal you to 100% with Signet of Malice, then I proceed in the usual kill order.

Be ware of enemy players arriving, if so, you might wanna drop shadow refugee and run since it will make it way harder.

If I were you I would also have a pistol off-hand because of the blind field. Melee mobs won’t be able to damage you if they stand inside it. This will also remove the need of smoke screen. Just remember to use dagger storm inside the combo field for blinding bolts!

Vanthian.9267:

The fact remains, there is no profession that has a skill that directly counters to stealth.

There’s no profession that has any direct counter to ranger pets, shouts, clones, invulnerability and so on. We are incredibly vulnerable while in stealth – we can take damage but doesn’t deal any.. Many other players have given plenty of counters to stealth that should be more than sufficient to kill a thief. I can’t count how many times good players have killed me while I was stealthed. As far as I see it, stealth is something that scare new players (humans fear what they can’t see) but amuse good players. I find it fun and challenging to fight a good thief, trying to predict his moves and position is heightening my skill level too.

I see a discussion regarding I initiative and skill spamming, so I’ll respond to that one too. Any good thief will never spam heart seeker – they use it once, to finish off their target ( nothing makes me more afraid seeing a thief with dagger main hand while I have 10% hp). As for initiative, it’s not never ending. For us to get more initiative we have to sacrifice damage – so that’s fair. While other professions have blown their cool downs they can just swap weapon sets and have new fresh cool downs, if a thief blow all his initiative (enemy evade, block and stuff while thief use his skills) he’s out of skills to use. It’s a pro in some points, but initiative also has its downsides.

Jumper.9482:

By all means, go ahead and rant. I find it amusing.
No one (other than Cruuk) uses Shadow Arts. It’s a pretty sub-par traitline lol.

That’s really wrong. In sPvP the SA trait line is pretty useless if you intend to cap anything. But in the current meta of WvW it’s the strongest trait line for the thief.

I not agree and disagree with you, so here’s my two cents.

• Do not increase the revealed debuff, but make it so it appears every time I’m leaving stealth – even if the thief isn’t attacking.
• Make any physical attack remove stealth. (Not AoE) if this is going to happen, then they must let stealth break channeled skills.
• Make it so stealth doesn’t stack. This will fix the D/P bandwagon and make it much more challenging to play.
• Set a cool down on Shadows Embrace (10 seconds). I agree that being able to remove two conditions (if 15 deep in Shadow Arts) every 3 seconds is too strong. But any more than 10 seconds to cleanse one condition upon entering stealth is better. We are, after all, suppose to be weak against conditions, but as it is now we are not…

One more thing: We are the weakest class if jumped, therefore we have the ability to take out our enemy fast with a high burst. We’re suppose to be the sneakiest, most slippery and deceptive class. We got blinds, evades, shadow step and stealth to survive. We are suppose to chose when to enter combat. Any good thief will analyze the enemy before attacking, finding the weakest link and eliminate it

Any thief using dagger storm in a 1v1 scenario for any other reason than getting stability is doing something wrong. I use dagger storm to get stability or to heal with Signet of Malice in an AoE situation.

HS spammers, well – good luck. They’ll learn some day that it doesn’t pay off to use it for any other reason than gaining stealth or finishing off an enemy.

D/D condition builds are awesome, but not that powerful against engineers. Telling people to stop using it because it doesn’t work on condition removal classes is just stupid. That’s the case for any condition build. If I’m running condition build and facing something that eats my conditions I just run away ^^

I used to run the same as you with 10 in acrobatics for more HP and swiftness on dodge. The major trait I would switch out for whatever I need most at the moment. More speed in stealth, stealth when taking falling damage, might on dodge or vigor when I use withdraw – all of them are great!

I was thinking about making either a video guide or write one here on how to counter most of the annoying moves of the thief. Maybe I should – it would force the bad thieves to learn their class more because they won’t be able to do that much any longer :p

I completely agree with you. Last refugee is junk, and it’s responsible for countless deaths on my toon :/

Hi! I’ve been experimenting with creating a bunker thief to use in sPvP in the last weeks, and so far it have been really fun and challenging to play. I have died countless times trying to find the sweet spot and experimenting with a huge number of traits and skills to figure out what would work best in an sPvP environment. My goal is to use this build in a full thief team in tournaments.

This is what I’ve come up with so far.

The build is focused on weakening and blinding my enemy, regenerating HP and initiative and evading as much as possible while still keeping good pressure on my foe. I chose S/P since a thief in stealth won’t contest the node, therefore I need to stay out of stealth as much as possible – I only use blinding powder as an oh kitten to use my heal and reposition card, or to revive an ally.

I open every fight with my shortbow, damaging and crippling incoming enemies as much as possible before they reach the node, I then drop a Choking Gas on the node to gain weakness stacks. Then I quickly switch to S/P and drop black powder and start auto attacking to cripple and weaken my enemy. If I see a big burst incoming I use pistol whip to interrupt, damage and evade. Headshot is also great for interrupting.

If there’s some ranged enemies I’ll drop smoke screen and keep attacking with my short bow until it disappears, I then use scorpion wire to get my enemy where I want him – right in my face and then proceed to the usual melee rotation.

The biggest weakness of this build us the lack of condition removal and stun breakers. I did play around with shadow step, but figured it was nearly useless as a bunker. I can use infiltrator strike and shadow return, but I’ll have to watch my initiative carefully. Infiltrator strike is also redicolously fun to use if I’m seeing multiple enemies approach close to each other. Chain stunning them to keep them away is just awesome!

Remember that this build isn’t designed to kill anything. A bunkers main role is to keep the enemy busy trying to kill you until your roamers arrive to take them out. Working together is a crucial point here, because you won’t be able to hold it for too long against glass cannons due to the thief having a low health pool.

I experimented with traps and poisons a lot, but figured that blinding and blocking projectiles was a lot more powerful. Scorpion wire is something I rarely see, and it will surprise the enemy to suddenly be thrown around the map – so this can be really powerful! If you want to feel safer, you can go with thieves guild, but I use dagger storm as both a heal and for stability.

I posted this because I worked this out my self and I haven’t seen anything like it in the forums before. I would like to get feedback from other thieves and ideas that might improve my build. That’s what we got these forums for anyways, right?

I remember downloading the OS X client and then deleting it as soon as I realized it wasn’t a native client. The fact that they’re ignoring us is just stupid, we are customers too, you know.

I think ANet and NC Soft should take a good look at how Blizzard have done it. They’ve made all their games for both Windows and OS X, with native clients on both. Not a kittening virtual machine kitten.

Either treat us like the PAYING CUSTOMERS we are, or just delete the entire thing. This is just lazy and unprofessional from a company this big.

S/P is really strong in PvE. The constant blinds and the slow attack speed of mobs is just too easy. You can simply perma blind an enemy group while damaging them with auto attack or pistol whip..

I approve Caed for being a highly skilled thief. People saying thief require no skill to play should really make a thief and try him in some tourneys. Tell me again how easy it was.

When I bunker with my thief I design him to not rely on stealth, and it works. Sword / Pistol is the king here. Focusing on blocking projectiles with smoke screen, evading, blinding and interrupting to stay alive. I also go 10 points in SA to get that sweet condition removal if needed.

Works like a charm for me Only drawback is low health pool and toughness..

I’ve been experimenting with Sword / Pistol lately, and I love it! I would really like to see the 15% increase in damage to PW, but until then I use it as a small burst and interrupt – it’s great for stopping an enemy burst! Other than that it’s a bunker build for tPvP, and because of the many evades and blinds I can go full berserker.

To OP: sword lack combo finishers, but the control and AoE damage this set is giving is just amazing. Ripping boons from guardians, interrupting big burst chains with PW and AoE blinding with Black Powder + Dagger storm (and healing with SoM). I just can’t see why I shouldn’t use sword in my main hand

The thing with stealth builds is that they’re not good as bunkers, in stealth = losing point. That’s pretty much why thieves end up being the roamer in PvP matches. I’ve tested out a S/P 0/0/10/30/30 build lately, focusing on heavy initiative and health regeneration combined with dodges and blinds to infinity. Works great so far at holding points! The key to win is to hold a point, right? So it would be stupid for a bunker to rely on stealth to survive.

I will probably finish the build in a few days and post it in the forums when it’s ready ^^

Nerfed? They fixed a bug – finally. As a S/x thief I love it now as always

I’ve played Asura thief since launch and I love it! The animations are awesome, and I really don’t care about big weapons and stuff, so it’s perfect for me!

The armor I found most appealing are the named sets with the thief hood – mini Altair if colored right ;p

Weapons from CoE looks amazing with that armor too

Me and some friends / guildies did get a five man trolling team for WvW. We had so much fun to say the least! Running all rampager geared and specced on conditions and high damage and signet of Malice, we out damaged and out healed most. Key words are venom sharing, boons, dagger storm, short bow and thieves guild.

A group of five jumping a Zerg: sharing venoms, popping dagger storm and adding more thieves to the game while stacking bleeds, poison and weakness as they’re also healing themself. So fun and probably a reason for many players to rage quit :p the only thing that really could kill us was confusion mesmers ^^

But if you’re thinking more on a sPvP level it will be tougher, but definitely doable. I would love to do something like that

Asura. I just liked the way they looked, and now I can never see my self going for anything other than Asura. Their animations and emotes are just so funny / cute / silly and whatnot. Actually I ended up having Asura Thief, Mesmer, Guardian and Engineer…

I did consider the female human for the T3 cultural armor, but I’m glad I didn’t.

Burnfall.9573:

As the OP had already stated “thief, the class takes little to no skill to play well and brings nothing but trolls to the game”

In other word, there are no such thing as “The Best Skilled” thief player; they instantainly have all the tools and traits available to them with 0-3 seconds cool-down, why overshadow yourself?

Once again, as I already stated; I had a wvw first timer level 37 thief in my guild who laughed about ‘how too easy it was’ while taking out multiple enemies players within 3-10 seconds. The thief continues, “I pretty much didn’t have to do anything, just spamming 2 skills over, over” Than concluded how boring it was, and laughed.

If it take a level 35 thief to see how “cheap skill” this class is, what more evidence/proof is needed that this class is in desperate need of a major “makeover”?

But if this class isn’t in need of any “makeover” by the designers and devs, than it clearly proves that thief class was intended to be a “cheap skill” ‘overkill’ class.

Haven’t anyone noticed the vast increase of thief players in wvw?

Each parties I join, 3 out 5 players are thief.

Even in the guilds, many players are ‘jumping ship’ to this class.

That says a lot.

It’s like, why would you want to pay for an expensive sport car, if there’s a cheaper sport car that is 3Xtimes better in all specs?

The thief is a profession that is made for roaming, killing weak (up leveled) and bad players. Simple as that. Saying that your friend leveled to 37 and killed tons of people doesn’t prove anything. If he had met a decent lvl 80 in full Ascended/exotic gear he would have been killed with ease. This is just yet another statement with absolutely no proof. I’ve several hundred hours of gameplay in WvW and I’ve never heard or seen anything like that.

If he really won by using two skills he must have played against completely new players with absolutely no skill at all. Thief is easy to pull off as a noob and it’s easy to kill noobs with it, but meet one decent player and you’re dead unless you really know your thief.

I challenge your friend to duel me in WvW against any of my classes, then he can say how easy it was for him to kill me. If he even down me once I will be suprised since I kill 99% of thieves I meet in WvW with any profession.

The fact that most of you are actually taking WvW as a balance point is redicolous. You have no idea if you out gear your opponent or not. Try sPvP and you’ll get it fair and square.

The fix we need is to get 3 seconds of stealth wether we attack from stealth or not and make it impossible for us to chain stealth.

Thief is a very strong profession in the right hands, but weak as hell in most hands – easy to play, hard to master.

Agreed. Created a post about this a few hours ago actually. People tend to fear what they can’t see, so this would have been much better

And there’s a really easy fix for this, and the devs intended to implement it in the big WvW patch, but instead they did something wrong, and went back to the way it was again… Give us 3 seconds of revealed wether we attack from stealth or not and make it impossible to chain stealth.

This would really fix most issues people say thieves have. It will make impossible for us to stealth and stay in stealth forever to run away or reset a fight. It would make it impossible to spam stacks of might. It would make it impossible for us to surf Zergs and to most of the stuff people hate that we do.

And it would force us thieves to think twice before vanishing since we now will have to decide – attack or run away? It will add much more depth to the class and it will take away most of the stuff that’s the reason why thieves are called easy mode in WvW.

If you can kill anything as a thief you will be called OP and noob because – you’re a thief. It doesn’t matter to people what weapon set you use, only that you’re a thief, so yeah :p

But D/P is one of our stronger sets, so I don’t see any reason to not use it. Any class will use either what they find most enjoying to play or simply the strongest set and build. As long as it is strong, people will use it, and your opponent will hate you for it.

I see that some of you did get me wrong; I love stealth and the way it works. But for some reason other players doesn’t think so. Newbies and baddies will keep complaining until we’re nerfed near useless – and Anet will keep nerfing because they want this game to be noob friendly (funny since they also want it to be an esport). I would much rather have an Assassin style profession than a useless profession.

I see a lot of you took up the never ending discussion of the new trap, and honestly, I hate it. They’ve actually implemented a utility that directly affects one class more than others. It actually make an entire trait line useless, and it effects a core mechanic of a profession. To make it fair they could add a trap that would make the ranger pet do nothing or the guardian unable to apply boons for 30 seconds? Then we are starting to talk about fair. But it’s just stupid and I really think they should remove this.

I know that they will probably never remove stealth, but I was sort of just giving my two cents and see what the community think about it. The devs aren’t exactly known to show them self in the thief forums anyway..

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Burnfall.9573:

Actually Geiir,

“Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent” that statement is ‘Dead Wrong’

Ninjas BUILD FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent, Arenenet mixed Ninja mechanism and elements to thief.

Once again,

NINJA STEALTH
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

THIEF Designed for Steal
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1088048-Thief-Multiple-Designs-for-Steal

Last Note; Thiefs’ you call youself Assasins? Take this> Assassins GW1
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Interesting thing is that Guild Wars 1 Assasin weren’t “stealth dependent” and till this day, thiefs are no match to them, even with “stealth”; they can put thiefs stealth ‘to the dust’ with their Evasive Evasions skills.
Nor they weren’t “useless” without Evasions, yet they still managed to be a Deadly ‘class to reckon with’
;see thier other skills and mechanisms.

In conclusion, all indicates that Stealth doen’t belong to this class; it is a mixture of other classes designs and mechanism.

Therefore, I Encourage Arenenet to follow Asssasin gw1 model and ’Once And For All, Stripp Stealth Entirely From Thief class"

It is Time to adapt.

Or Follow the True Model of Thief class with Steal

I have never said anything about thieves being assassins or ninjas -_- How can you even try to compare assassins from gw1 with thief?! They have two completely different designs. Anet DEISGNED THE THIEF TO RELY ON STEALTH! It’s not about wether we will lose or not, it’s about Anet releasing a trap that renders an entire trait line useless and affects a main mechanic of a professions. They should never do that.

On the other hand would I much rather have assassins as we had in GW1. Anet made a huge mistake putting stealth into this game, but they did and they have to stand for it or remove it completely. What they’re doing now is just intentionally kittening with us.

Do you think a ranger should need to adapt himself to survive without his pet if he’s specced into beast mastery? No. A guardian dependent on virtues should not get his entire trait line destroyed by a trap. That’s just stupid.

What bug are you talking about? I’m catching up to all professions in stealth, even a player with speed buff isn’t going to run away from me with that trait.

DrixTrix.7168:

a class’s core mechanic should not ever be penalised, for any reason, end of that’s really all there is too it, hell i’m no thief but anyone can see this.

Thank you

@ Griswold

So what you say is that the profession that was designed be unparalleled in roaming, escaping and burst – is in fact exactly what it was designed for? Holy kitten that’s OP….

We can reset fights, run away, slip away from most situations and so on, but that’s pretty much all we can do. We’re useless in all other parts of the game (unless you actually take some time to learn the class in more depth), so it’s completely unfair that we can do that, right… What thieves usually do in WvW is trolling unorganized and bad Zergs, killing the weak link, baddies and up leveled characters. We may also scout and run supplies, but that is about as deep as it gets. Yay.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Ruggan.4102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Umm no, taking away clones would be like taking away a trait line… just like the thief revealed for 30 seconds… weapon skills are entirely different… but well…

That is completely false. Mesmers are clone dependent, Thieves do not depend on their Stealth. It’s more or less taking away Distortion/Blurred Frenzy for 30 seconds, which still doesn’t bother me. Maybe you should l2p rather than live and breath Backstab Stealth monkery.

You are wrong. Have you even read the entire thread?!

Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent. Taking it away is like giving that thief to the enemy. This trap renders an entire trait line completely useless, tell me that’s fair again and that thieves should l2p. Anet designed the thief to be dependent on stealth, so we should not need to switch build because a new patch are released…. I’ve played a stealth free thief and I hated it. I had much more survivability, but I just didn’t like it.

To make it fair we could just make a trap called class nerfer: taking away stealth from thieves, boons from guardians, death shroud or conditions from necromacers, clones and phantasms from mesmers, ranger pets, engineer tool belts, not able to change attunements for elementalists, and warrior flags and shouts. Fair right?

Arheundel.6451:

Geiir.7603:

People seem to fail to understand that a thief built for stealth, that then can’t stealth, is a dead thief. No survivability, no defense, no burst, no damage – that’s a thief without stealth as they have designed it.

Lets just remove stealth already, since that’s the feeling they’re giving me doing this. It looks like they want us to be warriors with 11k health, 1k toughness and only damage. No boons or other useful utilities..

Thief players have rightly complained about bunker with too much bunkering…but now we’ve got stealth thieves with too much stealth, the d/p build is completely broken and need to be changed asap

I agree. And the change needed to accomplish less stealth from that weapon set have already been mentioned by the devs, but they scrapped the idea. Make it impossible to stack stealth and give you 3 seconds of revealed wether you attack from stealth or not.

That would pretty much solve it.

To OP: One thing is to adapt, but it’s something completely different buying a new set of gear, retrait and learn a completely new way to play your class. A stealth specced thief is dead without it. I have played bunker thieves without stealth – and I hated it. Boring and just not what I like. I love stealth and how it works, therefore I don’t want to play without it. It’s like saying: yeah, you Mesmers shouldn’t be able to create any clones and phantasms… How would that look like? People would hate it.

A thief without stealth, that is built for stealth, is a warrior with less damage, burst, armor and health. Really fair.

A good thief is a great addition to any team. We have roaming abilities that make other professions cry, and we have that nice burst needed as a solo roamer.

But it’s common to blame the thief. If the thief kill anyone it’s OP, if the team loses – well…

I can tell you it’s not broken. It’s doing exactly what Anet intended it to do.

If your group were a little bit organized that thief wouldn’t be able to survive ten seconds. First man downed? Just have three persons spam abilities on the downed player and you’ll see the thief pop out of stealth – downed or dead. When I play with my guild with 3-4 players roaming, we laugh a thieves and slay them. They are able to down one person, then they’ve given away their position and the thief is dead meat.

One more thing: thief has no access to Aegis – except from the steal skill from a Mesmer

People seem to fail to understand that a thief built for stealth, that then can’t stealth, is a dead thief. No survivability, no defense, no burst, no damage – that’s a thief without stealth as they have designed it.

Lets just remove stealth already, since that’s the feeling they’re giving me doing this. It looks like they want us to be warriors with 11k health, 1k toughness and only damage. No boons or other useful utilities..

Funny thing that people say thieves are OP. I tend to eat thieves alive with every single profession in the game. I’ve leveled all professions to 80 and most of them is still in rare or masterwork gear, but somehow I rarely die to a thief. Wonder why…

L2P is the main issue people are having. Stealth is not invincible or immortal, it’s invisible and redicolously predictable. People having an issue with thieves being able to run away should understand the fact that we are suppose to deal damage and ten bounce if things go wrong. This is the class design. Warriors have raw damage and the ability to stay in the front lines swinging his sword, while thieves need to pick the weakest target and eliminate it or run away.

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

I guess the purpose of this trap is to stop Zergs using veil to stealth around, but this will by far hit thieves hardest. No defense, burst or escapability if we’re lucky enough to trigger one (or if one of our friends trigger one and I’m within range).

ANet doing stuff without ever thinking about all the side effects, why am I not surprised….

I run sword main hand and therefore I always have infiltrator strike and shadow return ready. As soon as they drop I start the stomp, then I hit 2 (shadow return) and then steal or use shadowstep right before the stomp ends. Works on all classes

DanH.5879:

Iove.3902:

I’m playing Neverwinter till we see Wildstar, PSO2, and ArcheAge. Come join!

i have made an account last night, seems nice

i also i am done trying to play a crippled class…

Think I’m going to do the same. Created an account last night and downloaded the game. Gonna try it out today.

This game was fun until they made it Zerg vs Zerg, no competitive PvP and PvE is crap…