Guild Wars 2

^lol

Well I’m going to keep bringing my rabid necro through dungeons and doing well while everyone else wonders why I’m not a warrior, and then maybe one day when conditions are viable I’ll be that much better.

Broadicea.8294:

No one is telling you you can’t come to fractals, some of us are just telling you you can’t come in our groups. But you want to force me to play with you. Because players who refuse to accept the DPS meta won’t allow people to play with or not play with whoever they want, they want to force us to play with them. Like a crybaby little brother who won’t let big brother/sister hang out with their friends alone.

Are you actually serious?

“But you want to force me to play with you”

This is the most elitest comment I’ve heard in these forums, and that’s saying a lot. No one is whining about not getting invited to elitest groups, because it’s not the player base that has created the problem, so get over yourself.

The problem is that ANet lets this deeply flawed content go completely unchecked. They design a game in which the combat system eliminates the need for the traditional Heal/Tank/Damage trinity, which works in theory, and then completely ignores the result of its unprecedented failure in practice.

All classes weren’t designed to run DPS, and all classes certainly weren’t expected to sit on the sidelines while the only effective classes blasted through every instance.

No argument is even needed, just loot at the red posts on the sPvP forum compared to the entire professions forums. It’s absurd. Players need feedback about the direction of flawed content, not how we will be rewarded for playing flawed content.

All the might stacking suggestion does is further push the fact that all you need is DPS. I don’t want to have to bribe my group with might stacks into letting me in runs, I want to be needed because I provide support.

Also, that only addresses class and skill changes and does not improve the overall diversity of the content.

I refuse to not play my condition Necro everywhere. Call me what you will, I’ve heard it all. Can I stack bleeds like a champ? Yes. Can I melt any number of adds you throw at us? Of course. Can I perma blind when possible? Most certainly. Do I use staff? For LoS pulls mostly.

This profession has recieved a lot of crap from EVERYWHERE, and I will still play it pretty exclusively. I do great in fractals, granted the highest level I completed with him is 36 with no problems.

I’m tired of the content dragging non heavy, not burst builds through the mud as much as the next Necro/Ranger but the fact is the game has created a PvE community that simply does not allow diverse play. When the time comes that conditions are made more viable (not holding my breath) I’ll be even happier with my class, but for now, I won’t be told that I can’t come to fractals because I’m a Necro.

I think a system allowing exchange within a given timeframe would be most beneficial. Maybe up to four hours after purchase.

Maybe they plan to do something about it when they redesign dungeon rewards. I’d imagine something along the lines of X0 prestine relics

Well at most we can hope this thread eventually generates a comment as to whether or not they eventually plan on turning any attention to the dungeons.

I think it will over a very long time. Dungeon by dungeon boss by bos

I main necro, sorry.

Yes. Robbing…

Broadicea.8294:

If a boss does 5000 damage per second to your party, every second you add to the fight by doing less damage is you adding another 5000 damage that your party has to avoid or heal through. Every second you shave off by doing more damage is 5000 HP you’ve provided to your party.

Kill speed is the best damage mitigation in the game, no team healing comes close.

This obviously isn’t by design though. If something isn’t working as intended since launch it deserves a little bit of attention. Efficiency and game design are often conflicting concepts but this is getting ridiculous. The builds are there, the gear is there, the classes are there – fix the content.

I think it’s just that they don’t have any answers and would rather not begin a subject which they know they can either not finish or in which they would have to divulge more info that they don’t want to tell us

As long as they don’t call it jak the yak

Good stuff, thanks guys. Defiant is definitely a problem and something that’s been brought up here and in other class forums. Hopefully this post can get some attention, as it is highlighting areas of general PvE that could use improvement.

I want this thread to be about what the players think they need to be useful in PvE (without having to berserker).

My suggestion is better access to Torment and less access to bleed

“THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.”

usually

Unless being in China with a bad connection on the forums at 1:30am is the usual circumstance in which they check balances I don’t think this is any different behavior than the usual method, as stated in the post.

Damage done by Necromancer now spills into the Necromancer’s own health pool. Necromancer damage is now working as intended.

ChaosCrazed.6415:

Gnat.9405:

I would argue that having the WvW maps as a requirement increases the competition. I am almost exclusively a PvE player, but I think it’s healthy to have completion spread to WvW.

It adds another reason to go there and play. If you don’t want to get those particular points, then don’t bother with completion.

How exactly does it increase the competition from a quality standpoint? PvE players are looked down upon by many WvW players – I don’t think PvE players are wanted there (unless it’s a server known to hardly have anyone on, then they take what they get).

Also, is that reason a sensible one? Why would it make sense to make a PvE achievement require going into a PvP-centric mode?

You have a point but I still think it’s a way to get players to at least acknowledge other areas of the game. Whether or not it’s a good way is a different question. Players that Are 100% exclusive to PvE are forced into an area that otherwise they would probably never bother to invest.

The fact that these players are not wanted there by the community is something that can’t really be helped – it’s in the game and most likely not going to change. All I’m saying is that the current method is at best a way to rouse interest for players that are unfamiliar with the content. At worst it created longer queue times for players dedicated to the format. The trade off was worth it to ANet, obviously.

I’m sure adding primarily PvP content to this achievement was something that wasn’t implemented without discussion.

I think voting Kiel will lead us down a very predictable path of “pursuit of evil in the name of justice” flavored story.

Evon is a volatile character that seems to be for the most part unpredictable. Who knows what shady and mysterious situations he can get us into that will be breath of air from the dragon hunting that we know is going to happen anyway?

Also, who is to say that Evon doesn’t have some mischieveious plan to set in motion if Kiel does win? I can’t imagine Evon sitting back and taking a loss like a champ.

It will be interesting to see the road paved from this entire event, not just the outcome.

I would argue that having the WvW maps as a requirement increases the competition. I am almost exclusively a PvE player, but I think it’s healthy to have completion spread to WvW.

It adds another reason to go their and play. If you don’t want to get those particular points, then don’t bother with completion.

word

JonathanSharp.7094:

1:30 am…long day at the show.

THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.

It’s honestly just easier for me to look at that 1 forum, and then the WvW base forum, and get a sense for those 2 game types. For PvE, there are many layers of balance, from story steps, to dungeons, to fractals, to events, to new content for the living world, etc.

For the class forums, it’s just looking at 8 individual forums, which, when you’re on trips like this with a slow wi-fi connect, is just much harder and slower.

It’s not that we don’t love PvE, or balance for PvE, it’s literally just easier for me (personally) to check 1 sub forum, rather than 8, when I have limited time and a “meh” wi-fi.

Don’t read too much into that.

Also, if I post in 1 class sub forum, then I feel like I need to be fair and post in the other 7…which adds up fast at 1:30 am. Heh.

Just being honest! Thanks for all the constructive posts and honest questions guys!!!

-Chap from China

From reading PvE forums I noticed that there are some players who are concerened about what this means for PvE content. I understand that it is not wise to take this comment too dramatically, but I think some clarification is in order.

The problem: PvE content is trivial.

I’m curious as to the current design of skills and how they relate to the content in both PvE and PvP. I know the developers can’t be ignorant to the system that is in place now, where a group of damage builds can blast through what was advertised as your most difficult content in 5-20 minutes.

The balance issue for PvE is a different one than PvP because in PvE, it is not necessarily the skills that are posing the problems for the players, but it is the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of said skills and inherently the builds that use them. The traditional trinity of tank/healer/damage was thrown out in favor of a supposedly more efficient and social design, but it is clear that the design is failing due to how trivial the PvE content becomes when 5 damage roles are thrown at it.

I am curious as to how the balances being checked on the PvP side of things are being translated to improve how playable other roles are on the PvE side

JonathanSharp.7094:

1:30 am…long day at the show.

THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.

It’s honestly just easier for me to look at that 1 forum, and then the WvW base forum, and get a sense for those 2 game types. For PvE, there are many layers of balance, from story steps, to dungeons, to fractals, to events, to new content for the living world, etc.

For the class forums, it’s just looking at 8 individual forums, which, when you’re on trips like this with a slow wi-fi connect, is just much harder and slower.

It’s not that we don’t love PvE, or balance for PvE, it’s literally just easier for me (personally) to check 1 sub forum, rather than 8, when I have limited time and a “meh” wi-fi.

Don’t read too much into that.

Also, if I post in 1 class sub forum, then I feel like I need to be fair and post in the other 7…which adds up fast at 1:30 am. Heh.

Just being honest! Thanks for all the constructive posts and honest questions guys!!!

-Chap from China

Conceptually, whether or not intended, the game ends at 80, not begins. All the content (maps/stories/events/etc) are done while leveling up. At 80 you spend a lot of time doing the same things with shinier armor or setting up camp in WvW. And I’m not mentioning the dungeons, they are a complete joke right now.

I was talking about this ingame to some friends. If this was a standalone game I’d buy it without hesitation

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

This “meta” is most useful on a few paths of a few dungeons. Some paths are difficult to make work that way. There is plenty of room for all of what you mention elsewhere. Also, what Nike said.

Now, what people mean by “efficiency” is the key question. I can say that 3 guardians and a wells + condition damage necromancer stacking up running support and drawing enemies to corners are nigh invincible in most situations. Invincibility is pretty efficient in that your encounters have 100% success. It is not as FAST as all-out DPS. However, if you want speed, then you must either skip content and/or go all out DPS because DPS causes enemies to drop faster.

DPS run perfectly will always result in faster runs in any game because high rate of damage = enemies drop faster = shorter battles. That does not make other strategies inviable or useless. If something goes really wrong on an encounter for an all-out DPS party, it is unlikely to survive like a heavy support and condition damage party will survive things going wrong.

It’s a problem when those few paths of those few dungeons are the only content being played because of the design. This isn’t as simple as saying “oh, it’s only the meta”

It’s not the meta. The design of the game, where every encounter mechanic is “move out of the way” is not healthy for a game this ambitious. Even with the new reards system for playing diverse dungeons will still most likely not be as efficient as running the current speed clears 20-30 times before a single path of these other dungeons would be completed.

Allie I’m curious as to the current design of skills and how they relate to the content in both PvE and PvP. I know the developers can’t be ignorant to the system that is in place now, where a group of damage builds can blast through what was advertised as your most difficult content in 5-20 minutes.

The balance issue for PvE is a different one than PvP because in PvE, it is not necessarily the skills that are posing the problems for the players, but it is the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of said skills and inherently the builds that use them. The traditional trinity of tank/healer/damage was thrown out in favor of a supposedly more efficient and social design, but it is clear that the design is failing due to how trivial the PvE content becomes when 5 damage roles are thrown at it.

I am curious as to how the balances being checked on the PvP side of things are being translated to improve how playable other roles are on the PvE side.

Amazing.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all,

Just wanted to repeat what we have said so many times in the past. We do balance for PvE as well as PvP. Please don’t misinterpret what Jonathan was saying in that post.

You will find that we will be having a hotfix coming soon, where we do actually split the skill for PvE/PvP. While this is not something we can likely do for every skill in the game, we do recognize that certain skills are more viable in PvP/PvE and vice versa. We do what we can to make sure that everyone is happy.

Thanks for understanding.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Cashing-Out/2495256/quote

I agree with you shimmerless but the fact is that the devs are not treating PvE as such. They are coming to PvP to balance classes and push even more prematurely obsolete garbage into dungeons. The tank and spank aspect of PvE is being completely ignored

You honestly believe that this method isn’t used more often than when a dev has bad connection? With all the changes and more notably all the neglect to PvE content (not balancing, but CONTENT that matters to end gamers like dungeons and fotm) I refuse to believe that this is a temporary behavior.

What he means is that he goes to PvP forums to see the current state of the classes rather than going to the forums dedicated to the classes because it’s less work.

Why don’t they just remove the class forum then, and the suggestion forum because we all know that that is a joke.

I just commented on this in my post

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Cashing-Out/first#post2494451

It’s ridiculous and makes me want to qui

I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about current content that is deeply flawed and makes the entire mechanic of support/control obsolete before it ever stood a chance.

Honestly most of the PvE players aren’t even asking for changes to professions, but changes to the content that will make these professions useful. And it’s not an issue of flavor of the month, it’s the flavor of the game because that’s how the game was allowed to be designed.

If the devs would step out of the PvP forums to actually see what the problem is, there wouldn’t be such an issue of what to do about the classes. But as Jonathan said, it’s easier to just pop in the PvP forum to see what changes need to be made to the entire game. Seems legit.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Players are funny….they don’t want us listening to the forums….but then they can be mad when we don’t listen to their feedback.

WE CAN’T WIN!

This is because you’re getting feedback about two game types and only applying half of what you hear to the whole. As a PvE player I feel cheated and if you stepped out of the PVP forum to hear about what MOST OF THE PLAYERS OF YOUR GAME have to say you might have a better idea of what needs to be done.

But there’s a big tournament coming up and I don’t PvP so I have to take the fact that I’m blatantly undervalued as a player and customer and head to the back of the line again. I plan on shelfing this game and the ~$30-40 dollars a month I put into it because I believed in your philosophy until you decide to do what was effective in your first game and split the balancing for PvP and PvE.

I’ll see if I can McGuyver my way around my job’s content block. Check back in a little bit.

The personal story really isn’t even that much of an issue. just require the player to have either 0% or 100% of their story complete, and upon race change have them choose new story details at that point (like in character creation).

As for losing personal story progress, people who want to change race probably aren’t too invested in their personal story to begin with. I’ve seen and started many threads about race change but I don’t think we can look forward to it.

It’s coming, read Colin’s blog post from a few weeks ago.

Try Sand, that’s the best gold I’ve found so far.

Zhed’s mask
Arah Mantle
TA chest
Hellfire Vambraces
TA Leggings
Some boots too

People constantly make the incorrect accusation that the professions are the problem in PvE. It is not. The problem is PvE design, which trivializes anything but power housing through content.

Leave the professions alone. Build content around the professions, not vice-versa. I’m sure they have enough data to know exactly how to revamp each dungeon to make each role that they created, and that they banked their entire PvE system on, viable.

The forums is definitely not the place for this. If you don’t want to go ingame at least report through support.

I appreciate the feedback but I wish this wouldn’t continue as a thread that completely bashes peoples’ builds. The line that has been drawn is this: those players that are unfamiliar with dungeon mechanics, who can benefit from a defensive role in the party, and those players who do not need such support.

The conclusion I drew is clear, and thank you for the feedback, but this thread is going downhill fast.

Any ETA on the new condition video?

True enough. See in PvE my biggest problem with DS is the fact that they want it to be the class’s go-to mechanic but they don’t balance it with the Necro’s builds, rather they tack on sub-par condition/power damage (Torment and LB) and next to useless fillers (PvE still – obviously Fear is useful against palyers but much less so elsewhere).

I think they should allow us to adapt Death Shroud depending on our build, but I also know that’s asking too much.

What about changing Signet of Undeath to operate similar to Grenth’s Balance in GW1 but with HP and Life Force? Sacrificing HP to fill LF until they are 50/50.

70% HP, 0% LF would turn to 50% HP and 20% LF. Just something simple to give us more access to LF.

Also if my ideas are bad it may be because I’m am strictly a PvE/lite WvW player so don’t flame too hard.

Why not while in DS, dodge rolls are deducted from Life Force rather than endurance. It would have to be a high percentage (60-65%) but would solve the problem of vigor and add a bit more mobility and defense to the Necro and DS, which seems to be the long-term intent anyway.

I think they are slowly removing the necro from the game.