Guild Wars 2

K pop here

So now I think would be a good time to discuss the common burst rotations and how they compare to each other. I want to focus on shatter, backstab, 100 grenades, 100 blades. Even though there may be more. There has been a lot of discussion of these builds throughout the last few months and I want to truly compare them.

I welcome input from the respective players who have played the bursts (Caed, Chaith) (my apologies for not having a mesmer name here) and written guides on them, as my perspective may be skewed to warrior and I want this to be objective.
There are a few categories I will list below and I think filling those in will give a full perspective. I will edit update the thread as I have time to update the information.

I will post the builds later once I compile all the templates.

Let’s start by writing the basic skill rotations-
war- frenzy, bulls, 100 blades, whirlwind
thief- steal, CnD, backstab, heartseaker
mesmer- illusionary leap, blurred frenzy, mind wrack
engineer- magnet, kit swap, grenade barrage

Each of these classes is very squishy obviously running full glass equipment.
Typical defensive skills-
war-shield block, balance stance
thief- stealth and shortbow evasion
mesmer- distortion, blurred frenzy, mirror images
engi- perma vigor, elixir S

Aoe potential-
war-gs cleaving 3 target standard

Burst recharge time-
war- frenzy cd (60) for frenzied burst, bulls (40) 100blades(6.5) whirlwind(8)

Time to kill from burst-
war- ~2-4 seconds hits land in small additive fashion largest solo strike (3k). This does not include eviscerate

Ability of dodge burst-
war- bulls charge dodge mitigates majority of damage in this rotation

Team utility outside of burst rotation-

All of these bursts are melee ranged.
Players please answer these questions and we can get a nice comparison here.
Feel free to suggest categories as well to help create the full picture.
This thread is not intended to bash a class or say one burst is better than another, but to compare them. For new and experienced players.

If when we got this game in bwe and the skills hit for less, you would be used to doing less damage. How does across the board less damage make the game easier? it just makes the game last longer. Almost every class cannot out heal damage anyway. less damage=/= less skill. The contrary would be if skill==damage then lets make everything one shot people and it is the first to land a hit wins.

Nerf=/=destroying a value. nerf==adjustment or reduction. If every skill in this game hit for 10% less damage, does that mean the game takes less skill all of a sudden?

Prezzy.2783:

Sand Beagle.9867:

Prezzy.2783:

For a Condition removal build i think you have missed the point.

Surely running 3 shouts with shouts remove conditions (soldier runes) would be better?
4 conditions gone in 20 seconds, no other cond removal is better for warrior.

Edit : Can you actually explain where your condition removal comes from? I hope to god you don’t think blowing on your war horn removes them lol

Ah, but these are 100b builds, and 3 shouts on a 100b build and soldier runes would be extremely unviable to the point of uselessness.

You can choose shake it off if you want more condition removal, but blowing your horn converts 1 condition to a boon, giving you 2 potential condition removals + 4% potential damage increase when your horn is off cooldown. Also, horn 4 removes conditions that impede your movement which are extremely detrimental to a 100b build. Your mending also removes 2 conditions. You can take a hit in damage and replace strength V with strength II, and have a bit more condition removal, but survival is still secondary for a 100b warrior, and the way i have it setup you have almost no loss in damage.

Yeah i see what you are saying – however i run a Healing shouts build with zerker armour and ‘Might on crit with GS’.

Still manage to hit for 15-18k with 100b, 4 conditions removed every 21 seconds along with a 1.3k heal from each shout – 3.9k heal every 21 seconds also.

Understandably i could run 30/30/ blah/ blah / blah but instead i found that conditions were the warriors achillies heel so chose to run with :

10 / 25 / 5 / 30 / 0

Meaning i still get the best trait for a GS warrior ( forceful greatsword ) but i also have a health pool nearing 30k, 4 cond removal and extra healing. The drop in DMG is really quite insignificant providing you can keep might and fury stacked – i ran full zerker inc trinkets before this build and found that 100B was only hitting for 1-2k more.

Prezzzy

I do not believe your drop in dps was only 2k. You lose 20% crit damage by not investing into discipline and you loss 10% gs damage by not going into strength 20. Plus the 100 power loss as well for not going strength 20. That certainly amounts to at least 3k damage with sig of rage up.

Snook. try me
kpop

Nerfing everything would actually just make everything equally as weak. In this case, then there would not be anything “OP” and possibly fights would take longer overall. Maybe a across the board damage and heals nerf will make this game not seem like every fight is 30 seconds.

I can’t really make my mind up. Limiting to one class would deal with some of the issues, but the I think some classes are better in pairs. Maybe a limit of 2… But then we still have the PZ 2 ele 2 ranger, so would defeat the purpose. idk I guess 1 would be interesting though.

I think my stance has flopped and I support Sataar here
Yes.

Congratz. 15 chars

You mean its possible lolz

Hey how about the next one… deflect is key huh

Glass cannon is not meant to node defend. If you want to node defend you need to play the spec. I have to find it in my spread sheet, but it can survive the bunker minimums for help to arrive. not meant to do damage. sword warhorn mace shield. I actually used to use oppa’s build as a node defender with a different amulet and utils on Khylo.

But I am not here to steal Sataar’s thread. Point is that some classes are more forgiving and require less skill to be comparable to other classes being played better.

Sand Beagle.9867:

Nier.2478:

These set-ups are the SOLE REASON on why Warriors are bad. Because players recommend bad utility sets such as FGJ, Frenzy, Bulls Charge and people follow them anyways. Not to mention the fact that you think the 25 minor trait on discipline is actually worth taking.

Yes these bad “set-ups” that include such horrible bad traits and utility like frenzy and bull charge are absolutely terrible for 100b builds, and are definitely the reason why warriors suck. And not to mention i think the 25 minor in discipline is worth taking, yes holy kitten i am dumb, see my stupid brain figured that it would be better to have +5% crit damage over +50 precision and a random arms trait that i dont particularly need.

No stability = you get interrupted even at point blank.

Thanks for the awesome insight on what stability is though, holy kitten i had no idea without stability you get interrupted, even at point blank. See i always thought no stability meant you are susceptible to CC in general, but kitten i just never really realized it also included point blank. Mind = blown. I guess it depends on your playstyle, see i have no problem running no stability, but sometimes i do anyways, though not for the reason you state. I guess without stability you need to utilize some basic timing, but that might be too difficult for some.

And by point blank I mean specially when you’ve baited out stun breaks and they can surely die with Frenzy + HB.

Oh so by point blank you mean something that isnt the definition of point blank, and you use stability because you are 100% sure that you’ve baited out all of their stun breaks, and now want to make sure you dont get disrupted in case they what, spastically CC you the second you hit your bulls charge, or go to initiate your 100b combo that doesnt involve bad utilities like frenzy and bulls charge?

Learn to use Balanced Stance for Christ sake if you want to “make PvP guides.”

In case you cant read, these are just 100b builds i made a while back, and felt like sharing. Note how i said 100b, and note the 1, 0, 0, b in that specific permutation means 100b, so yes this will all be with respect to and relative to 100b. Also, this is not a pvp guide, this is a post about 100b builds, as previously mentioned, so it talks about 100b builds, which is the point of this post, because its about 100b builds.

Anything works in PvE, but if this is a guide for PvP then sorry. I recommend that you actually make a guide that HELPS NEW WARRIORS. NOT a guide that posts bad traits and utilities.

Again this is not a guide, and how do i help new warriors by offering them builds that, according to you, must have balanced stance, cant have bulls charge or frenzy – which are basically the prerequisites for a 100b build – when realistically the 100b build is the only proven viable build for spvp and tpvp?

Please offer a well tested and well documented counter build then and enlighten me.

Oh Gawd, here comes the Svarheight pain…

I try try try to defend warrior viability. Post builds and equipment. Stream from war pov, run in a dual war comp, etc etc.

But the community has its mind made up, warrior is unviable.

Mist is bland agreed, but its not really an explorable area so I guess they did not spice it up much.

I want to try. I will be around later this week, est evenings. My original post was from map chat on anvil rock, its ok, was irrelevant. I am k pop

Vanthian.9267:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Miko.5726:

Vanthian.9267:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Soon warrior will be OP. My day will come… mwuah hah haa

Here is to hoping we become viable!

Warrior and viable? How ? In which role? Sorry, but i havn´t got a clue. Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger have a better mechanic, there´s nothing to be done about that.

One can allways dream!

This warrior has beaten the likes of the OP running a dual war comp. Sorry you are just doing it wrong then because we are very much viable, just slightly at condi disadvantage.

A slight disadvantage? We have a non existent sustain mechanic compared to Mesmers/Thiefs/Rangers/Guardians. We have one burst heal and 2 very bad regen heals. We have limited access to vigor on a offhand weapon that is… subpar to say the least for a PvP set up. You will either give up your defensive side or offensive side to be able to have vigor up 50% of the time. The base line defense and health of the Warrior do not make up for the minimal boons we have as the developers thought it would.

Also, while you claim it is a skill issues for me I could claim the same and say it was obviously a horrible team you were playing against if you won with a duel Warrior set up.

This is why I should screen shot… last time I checked, Caed, Sataar, hman, davinci were not bad players. But continue to think wars are weak that is fine. For the glass build only weakness is condi specifically slows. Give us anything else for the amount of burst we can do in 20/30/0/0/20 and it will be to stronk

20/30/0/0/20 axe(mace) shield gs 5 scholar 1 divinity
damage boast, gs 10%,
vigor on 10%(50% crit stuns), gs 20% trait, 4 sec quickness
%crit chance, mobile strikes
enrgy axe stun shield
energy gs
frenzy, bulls, balance, sig
12-15k 100blades under sigil on heavy golem

20/20/0/10/20 axe shield gs 5 scholar(balthazar) 1 divinity
damage boast, gs 10%,
vigor on 10%, gs 20% trait,
immobilize trait
%crit chance (sig recharge), mobile strikes
enrgy axe stun shield
energy gs
frenzy, bulls, balance, sig
10-12k 100blades under sig on heavy

phased out? is that what your asking?
not so much phased out as much as the skill floor is rising for you to be effective.

All builds are built around one trick ponies.
Mesmers – mind wrack
Rangers – trap
wars- 100blades
thieves- backstab
engi -100 nades
guards- spin to win

Except for condi and sustained builds, all bursts are built around some 1 high damage combo.

Time spent staring at the map is time not spent winning the match

Ah yes, the class carry. Delicate topic indeed.

^ Explains so much lol

OMG I must tryout. I hear you guys beef is OP.

Miko.5726:

Vanthian.9267:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Soon warrior will be OP. My day will come… mwuah hah haa

Here is to hoping we become viable!

Warrior and viable? How ? In which role? Sorry, but i havn´t got a clue. Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger have a better mechanic, there´s nothing to be done about that.

One can allways dream!

This warrior has beaten the likes of the OP running a dual war comp. Sorry you are just doing it wrong then because we are very much viable, just slightly at condi disadvantage.

Soon warrior will be OP. My day will come… mwuah hah haa

Please stop saying warriors are not viable. For the main gc spec, we just need a tweat to mobile strikes clearing slows and we will be fine.
Yes some other weapons could stand for some changes to diversify builds, but the main spec is almost there. My credentials, well I am not one to screen shot all of my famous plays but I have played against top named teams using my warrior and have won matches.
K pop

Aragiel.6132:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

Im still a bit pesimistic about how it will work. This is a team game after all. I have a team of 5 players and .. where is OUR TEAM rank?
Im simply asking because lets say i have more teams i want to play in. Sometimes with my guildmates and we try to be e-sport material so probably i would go to high rank. But then im going to play with my PVE friends.. and possibly lose a lot of games. Which will in fact decrease my invisible rating and therefore move my rank down.
An obvious question is there.. why would i play with my PVE friends then? if that would mean loosing ratings and rank?

And how it affect my real team ? If im loosing with other teams then my main team, then my rating is going down.. meaning also team rating is going down because our summary or average or doesnt matter how is calculated is going to drop. At the end.. MM system will recognize it and it will matchup us with sligtly underpowered teams..

so.. The rating / rank im not really sure a personal rank is the right way.. instead i would like to see guild rank or team rank with some kind of “team registration” so you can have more “ranks and rating positions” similar to SC2 system.
Im pretty sure you know SC2 system – i think thats a good way how to do it..

This is a very valid point, and it will simply stratify the community more.
You would not want to play with your lower ranked friends because if you lose, then you lose your own ranking. Or, the matches would be too hard for them.

Smurfing is useless when rewards are account bound and cannot be traded

I think they are making a WvW type gvg which is meh

Why did this get changed back. I thought it was a good feature to see the entire team and your life bar and conditions all organized in one place like gw1.

Was this a ninja fix, and how come?

We should just put out a psa. as long as you have a gs, the rest doesn’t matter lol

It is just the ability of the mesmer to constantly move around and teleport. Avoiding the damage is not so much the issue from a war PoV as it is dealing the damage.
You simply can’t trade hits as well.

Its stronger than boss buffs. 1 minute of double points means you don’t even have to try for 2 cap for whole minute.

Old concept of QP was an entry fee. You needed x amount to play in the tourney for the month.

Interesting concept, but since rewards are tied to players I do not know if it is possible for leader to get all tickets back.

food for thought.

yawn.7819:

Updated! K Pop can you let me know if you are NA or UE? Thanks!

Na est timezone

Its all about dunking him bro.
Dunk that guy

bulls is not a hit detection issue its a pathing issue.
on the issue, front loading your burst is bad too in most situations.
You should never initiate a fight with a war. that is just asking to die. When is last time in a team fight, the thief was the first to show up.
5v5 you cannot stay in the middle of the fight and expect to live. this is the difference between sustain and burst. you must roll in and out of the fight.
run dodge sigils. dodge=much less damage to you
My PoV, when our team comes into a team fight, I am always the first target. Taking pressure off your team allows your team to do their job better. So your getting focused, kite your attackers through your teammates attacks. Deals pressure while you are trying to relieve your own pressure. Whirlwind attacks is one of the best skills in the game, and probably the most important reason to carry the gs outside of raw cleave ability.

War mobility is like 4th. Ele thief engi mes(if you count portals)

Comparable damage, well that is how you define it. Because you can say other classes have comparable damage, but they are all glass specs. Outside of condi, war glass spec should survive the longest.

They have stated before that load screen issues do not show up in their testing. One cannot catch what one cannot see

I have since moved to the stream department. Kpop warrior for tourneys
:http://www.twitch.tv/interpretinterrupt

I love warrior. it is very team viable. axe + gs is not the only build usable and most people do not know how to play against something other than axe gs.
axegs=dps dps dps nothing more
longbow + gs= dps aoe
mace + gs= control cc dps
bunker build= cleanses control

the 4 builds I play and each one has a niche. Svarheight is very brash in his comments but his messages are correct. Playing high level war is a L2p issue 60% snares 30% 10% build selection. Just play what works, who cares about variety. Bunkers play like 3 builds, same general idea. Thieves play like 3 builds same general idea. etc etc.

This is a team game use your team to your advantage and it will be easier. I think individual skill can be hidden in strong team play. Who cares if you can 1v1 if your team rotations always save you. Doesn’t matter if your squishy if your team will rez you every time. Can’t clear condi? thats why I only fight condi with support clears.

My point is just figure out how the class works with others, not just yourself. Much easier to land 100lbs in a team fight than in 1v1. But same goes for backstab as well.

why not. you want to hide your rank? Your level is always displayed its the same idea

No one recruits warriors, but then no one posts when they lose to them either its expected.

Just like when your in pve and you can see a players level, why not have ability to see ranking next to a players name.

Doesn’t have to be Lakers specific. You could say we bring class x because its like have a big man in the lane. Or class y is our 3 point shooter. z is good at defense, etc.

Sprawl.3891:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Is there anything in the history of anything that encourages even play? Sports basketball exploit uneven matchups
Shooters video games- attack as a group
etc etc.
Who would ever pass up the opportunity to have an advantage

basketball is still 5v5 with the exception of fast breaks. Hockey has uneven match-ups but only as a penalty for bad play.

Comparing to sports is more about personnel match-ups like in basketball do you run a big/defensive 5? a small quick shooting 5? balanced 1/2/2? Regardless of how you build your team it’s still always 5v5 with set half court offenses. in GW2 almost every fight eventually ends unbalanced.

~Sprawl, #1 Athlete in GW2, EU/NA/CH

Clearly pick and roll, switching man vs zone, or double teaming have nothing to do with advantage. Ill just _/ and wait

PvP evisc and PvE/WvW evisc are two different beasts.
PvP 20/30/0/0/20 full berzerkers with 50%crit damage still maxes at about 10k damage.

The mentioned nerf was due to the combination of 30% more damage from burst with the 30% more damage sigil that use to exist “sigil of doom” effectively making you already 200% damage evisc hit for over 300% damage. Now a 8k crit becomes 12k which was effectively one shotting people back in beta. therefore it was adjusted and the sigil was removed from the game.

Schwahrheit.4203:

@OP

I get your frustration, however I simply don’t buy the statement saying “there is no hope for Warriors” at its current state.

1.) Punishing dodge isn’t exactly impossible with Bulls Charge + Frenzy + HB. There are openings when the dodge or a dodge skill is near its end. Let alone many other ways to land HB (I.E Skull Crack, Flurry).
2.) Look at number 1, learn how to do this and it is a sure kill with HB if you know how to bait out stun breaks. You have yourself, and your team mates to do this. If you can’t capitalize on this as a Warrior then sorry, play an easier class.
3.) Great AoE DPS. With Hundred Blades and Combustive Shot as team damage into consideration, the moment you get downed by good Warrior comps, you will stay down. Unless you’re an Ele in which case is just a broken down state that needs to be fixed. Also the main reason why protecting a Warrior is worth is because any Warrior who knows how to make plays around AoE damage puts A LOT to the table whether be it down state or combat state.
4.) That being said, good Warriors only needs someone to cleanse SLOWS for him simply because most of Warrior survivability comes from mobility such as Whirlwind Attack and Rush, but that isn’t enough due to how the application of slows is ridiculously broken.

I know you’re going to say where are my credentials on my statements?

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg556/andymcdonald/gw159_zps1c9804d2.jpg
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg556/andymcdonald/gw133_zpsd696597e.jpg
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg556/andymcdonald/gw167_zpsb1173b53.jpg
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg556/andymcdonald/gw140_zps771280a5.jpg

Try to reach those team scores as a Warrior against competent teams with your team not having any resurrection signet, portal, time warp, an ele, and someone who cleanses slows. I guarantee most of you who try to attempt this won’t even reach half of what me and my team has accomplished through a massive handicap. So if you honestly think I’m spouting BS, think again. I’m not a bad Warrior and I’m pretty confident that I definitely know what needs to be done fix my class without making it broken. More than anyone if I should say.

Warrior needs fixes, I agree. But it doesn’t have to be over-buffed to Ele’s and Mesmer’s level of sleeper where people deny that its broken. Warriors should be balanced to Rangers efficiency, that’s about it.

If I was in coach we would have won

It is possible that each tourney will simply pick out of the 4 maps so it is not set in stone each time. Wait and see. take this .-. _/ A seat and a foot rest

Even the cooldown increase is brutal. If you have your cds memorized and then all of a sudden you factor in chill ruins some rotations.

Teleport would be counter to slows. We really just need a counter to slows. Other than that I like where the class is as a whole. Just would like to see the necessity of the GS removed. I don’t think any war would disagree that gs is mandatory atm.