Guild Wars 2

SkyShroud.2865:

By now, people should realise that PvX players account for at least half the overall WvW populations.

No, at least the people I knew of my servers were all wvw players – so I don’t think anyone will return.

Melanion.4892:

How can you know? Have you played the new map when there are more than 10 people on it? Everyone’s hiding in EBG because they don’t want to try an empty map. I’m not saying take EBG away forever. Just try a week without it. People will go to the other maps and play around a little. Maybe they’ll have fun. Maybe they won’t. The point is that we’d actually know rather than have people saying “I hate the new map. It’s no fun. I don’t know what’s happening and there’s nobody to fight.”

I agree with what Bubi said.
I’ve also been on the BL with “enough” people some times as a zerg, or a full grown blob. As a zerg it was kind of nice to fight, as a blob we chased the enemies (blob as well) around a pillar for 30 mins.
As a zerg you have no real advantage/disadvantage with a pillar/chokes, as a blob you do.
After anet had the adopt a dev programm it semed as if they wanted to split up blobs which they’re “doing” on the BLs as half the blob is killed by the map alone – problem is, at least on EU (I have now been bronze,silver and gold) there’s solo roamers, havoc groups, zergs and blobs on each and every server – and they all want to play. You can’t really force them to adopt a different size/playstyle “You’re a solo roamer? Too bad! – Oh, you’re a blob, well you can’t play.” The new BL is perfect for roaming groups and small zergs, other than that you shouldn’t really play on it.
That’s my impression for now – I’m kind of put off of wvw in general for now; too many annoying things, so maybe I’m wrong.

I still haven’t really tried the new BL- I’m sure that anet would listen to us and probably tweak some stuff if we made some constructive suggestions – but with all the bugs, UI annoyances, balance issues I have no fun in wvw in general right now. So I don’t play it. The new BL isn’t that bad but I can’t really judge it as the longest I can stay in wvw nowadays is ~ half an hour – due to all the stuff that’s wrong.

Morwath.9817:

Don’t get me wrong Cynz, but you’re complaining about Thieves all day (and night) long everyday and I haven’t seen a single suggestion in your posts what should be in your opinion changed to make Thieves viable again. Just random rants all around.

We’ve been through this since June – all of those you see frequently on this forum (thief forum – I mixed up the tabs, sorry) (except those who hijack every thread and tell us to shut up) have made a lot of constructive suggestions. It was the following “balance patch” in september when most of us gave up, I think. still some constructive threads here and there but we know it doesn’t really matter anyway.

AegisRunestone.8672:

????

How do you get one from a login reward?

When you get the BL chest you might have a chance to get one.

DoctorDing.5890:

Do folk really craft “mid-range” weapons?

I do – weapons but usually not gear.
Lvl 20, 35, 55 and sometimes in between, depending on how bad my gear is.

darkaheart.4265:

are you serious? no thieves or warriors lol

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta

Haven’t had a look at the NA thread yet.

Edit: NA thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-Pro-League-Meta

0 warriors still, 3 thieves.

Haralin.1473:

2 Servers still full in EU

No, only Deso

TPMN.1483:

In other words:
Kick start funds for new players
Drain gold for existing players (who want to rush things )
Create market uncertainty – spikes/dips and clear backlog of items from tp.

A warning to new players who read this though: Don’t sell your T2-T4 (and maybe T5) cloth and leather as you will have to buy it later on.

Shadow.1345:

Bad players that would rather whine to mommy and daddy Anet to make things better rather than learning how to play a class that is still currently in the meta.

EU matchups yesterday:

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

“Still in the meta”…

Aggrostemma.1703:

In the EU matches:

No Thieves or Warriors were represented…
Every team who had a Guardian lost.
Every team who had two Revenants won.

Nerf Thieves, Warriors and Guardians please…

I’m pretty sure that will happen, although a bit differently (and depending on the future matchups) – no warriors or thieves around = no changes. Probably an overall change to initative though, since most teams with a rev won. Every team with a guard lost = guard buff.

logan.5846:

Boy, look at all those god mode Dragon Hunters making a mockery of the game..

Color me totally shocked to find out that traps which only work against bad players.. only work against bad players.

Granted, I never died to a DH trap although they’re bugged – and you can say that these traps are “okay” in a 1 vs 1 scenario, or even 5 vs 5 in pvp as long as the opponents have enough counter probably – but they are really bad and unjustified in zergs.
I know “anet doesn’t balance wvw” doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.

Don’t think they need to do the effort to create yet another new map.
Those who are serious about wvw quit and those who were not so serious wander off to EotM.
Problem solved.

(You have a lot of truth in your OP though).

darkaheart.4265:

nerf Rapid Fire and then True Shot! sorry guys rapid fire gets me work up lol i just hate that skill with passion.

anyways i can agree on some of this stuff but not all, i reroll from warrior for the same reason and now i have this class nerfed too

Me too. I took my ranger for a spin today, my genius combo was: LB 2, 4, 111, 2 > GS 2 – 23 stacks of vulnerability through rapidfire GG and there goes my brain. Took down a mob I’m killing on my thief every day in half the time – and my ranger is soldier’s.

My buddy and I are yelling at each other right now – stress relief, I guess.

Nonetheless- thank you for looking up all the links for me =)

Ario.8964:

Honestly though “Spamming BS” isn’t really that big a thing now. Most spammers will die within a few seconds unless the person they are fighting is just awful. The base initiative increase wouldn’t really give them any buff as they would still die in 2 seconds and wouldn’t have time to use that extra initiative. But you do have a point in the whole shut down idea that has been put forward. Though at this point the class is shut down by a piece of grass if it has an elite specialization so even if they add more initiative there doesn’t really need to be an increase in our glass factor because well… we are already full glass.

If they buff backstab then a thief would one shot another thief but no other class – so it would be kind of canibalism – that is my point of view. I want the overall damage to be toned down and BS to be the highest single damage in game again – and with ~9k against a zerker/valk thief that’s already really high.
I explained how all of the problems thief has added to the state the class is in right now. Initative is a problem. You can currently buff thief all you want doesn’t change that 5 of the other classes are invulnerable 90% of the fight (exaggerated).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Jana.6831:

And when was the balance patch before the league started?

shrug

Maybe they are considering the tweaks in the 2 patches post-HoT as enough ‘balancing.’ Dunno. Was just answering the original question posed: “are we going to see a balance patch soon” to which the answer is a definitive “nope.”

shrugs again

You’re right, I was just asking because maybe I missed something (I knew I haven’t) – I’m not amused right now. But alas, it’s their game.

So finals 3 months from now. And when was the balance patch before the league started?

ETA: This is where I read the “3 months”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-road-ahead-for-2015/

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Considering pro league starts today. (First matches might be going as we speak) No, we won’t be seeing a ‘balance patch’ (as it relates to skill power anyway) until season 1 is over.

I tried to figure out which when and where what cup is starting as there always seems to be one randomly – can you explain to a noob when it starts (really today? couldn’t find anything about it) and when it’s going to end?

Oh and:

Gnat.9405:

After the league begins, we will be seeing balance patches in six month cycles.

3 months cycles was what they said in some HoT announcement – but alas..

Edit: I found this:
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

7 weeks of tournament, so it’s another 2-3 months until the next patch – that’ll make it 9-10 months from when they merged the traitlines until the first balancing patch might come out.

No offense, anet, but in case you wonder why less and less people play this game – that is a reason why.

Daltemir.1072:

.. run around in Orr with a pick axe like during release of the kitten game?…

That’s what I’m doing: mindless node farming tetris as my class can’t be used for anything else anymore. I do run through buggy wvw though sometimes – but I’m only “good” in a zerg.

ETA: Dungeons were nerfed, Teq is nerfed – so yes, basically the old content is nerfed (No idea about the Silver Wastes) – but what has been “buffed” is most mats – so anet wants you to get your gold from players. I’ll think about this some more.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, I think of that ever time I’m PKed by some ganker in Queensdale. . . oh, wait. . .

This is a game that takes a very hard line against open world PvP, but is very embracing of economic PvP. Personally I’m not a fan of either.

Doubloons, lodestones and quartz are also available to everyone in the same amount. There’s no difference there. The only difference is that the quantity of those items that trickle into the world are relatively low, and the need for them, while not insubstantial, is relatively low to core materials, since only fringe items need any of them.

There is a difference between node farming and mob farming. It’s called RNG. In most cases you can’t do something and expect the Item you want to drop – when node farming you know exactly what you get for your time. In case of Quarz node farming: You can only mine the nodes once a day with your account.
I do wonder why you contradict yourself here.

Ohoni.6057:

But many activities do not provide nearly enough gold for that either. That’s the problem, not that it’s impossible to acquire these items through various means, but that these means are not nearly balanced enough against one another.

That’s your self made problem.

Ohoni.6057:

The direct worth of precursors would remain high no matter how common they are,

Not really as the “direct worth” is now entirely in the hands of the players.

Ohoni.6057:

but the current 500-1000g price range is more reflective of the difficulty and cost in acquiring them, not in what anyone actually wants to spend on one.

No, only in your head.

Ohoni.6057:

The price really should come down, especially given that the Precursor alone is worthless to you, you have to then invest another huge chunk of resources in order to convert it into the actual prize.

No and no – I’m actually using spark as a skin.

TL; DR:
All those complaining about the prices of Deldrimoor Steeland Spiritwood Planks made their own problems – the prices for those and the precursers are made by the players. If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

Everytime there’s an RNG factor in requiring mats though it’s debateable whether or not the drop rate should be increased.

And that is my answer to those complaining that “the precurser is cheaper than all Deldrimoor add together on the TP” – with that I’ve said everything I had to say (multiple times actually) – have fun whatever you do.

Oh and Ohoni, please learn how to quote properly.

It’s actually pretty simple to quote someone
[qu ote = the number of the post; name ]

Ohoni.6057:

John Smith said himself that he’s fine with objects of a supposedly equivalent tier having wildly different prices, Charged Lodestones being a specific example. If they decided otherwise, they could fix it. If they wanted the underwater precursors to cost as much as, say, Dusk, all they would need to do is dramatically lower their drop rate via the usual channels.

Yes they could – welcome to a completely rigged game in which everybody is pampered and put into cotton wool as everything that remotely resembles reality is a no go.

Ohoni.6057:

Some markets they have very direct levers to play with and are very easy for them to manipulate, other markets either have such low supply or low demand that they are more difficult to tweak, but any situation can be nudged in the direction they want it to be if they so choose.

You’re right and they should tweak materials required here and there or increase their output. Speaking of silver dubloons, charged lodestones, quartz – but that has got nothing to do with precurser crafting as the mats for the precursers are availlable to everybody in the same amount and in fact they’re that plenty that increasing the nodes would miss us the forest for the trees.

Ohoni.6057:

Sure, but it requires time on your part, time that could be spent doing other things, and that time has non-zero value.

Time you spend otherwise in game still awards you with gold, so you can still buy what you need if you decide to not put the effort in.

Ohoni.6057:

And again, you can do that, or you can spend your time elsewhere.

That’s your choice actually and I heard that nothing pays as well as the Silver Wastes, so even if the price of the items farmed there is lower you probably get that many that it “evens out”

Ohoni.6057:

That’s not the only tool they have. Everything is a case-by-case situation, but big picture I think the better levers would be in increasing supply of certain materials or reducing the amount needed by core recipes, in most cases.

Since precurser prices dropped already since HoT I think the prices for everything (but cloth and leather) are fine right now.

Ohoni.6057:

..and if ANet decided to change any of those factors, then the amount of effort required would also change.

Yes and that would make precursers worth less – something anet tried/tries to avoid.

Ohoni.6057:

People asking for lower prices aren’t asking ANet to “declare” a new price for them by which the market must abide, they are asking ANet to change the conditions responsible for the current prices, so that players who sell them will feel that a lower price is fair relative to their new, lower efforts.

I think you people should be glad with what you’ve got when it comes to precursers. The only real point I see is with cloth and leather and some recipe requirements which could be lowered.

Edit: Something with the editing was wrong

Ohoni.6057:

No, the price of the precursors is made by Anet. Players participate in their process, but only as a farce, not as an actual force. There is no such thing as true “market forces” in the game, because ANet controls all the faucets, all the sinks.

It isn’t made by anet, otherwise underwater precursers wouldn’t be dirt cheap and I’m pretty sure that the chances that any precurser will drop are equal. I don’t think anet ever changed that rate.

Ohoni.6057:

In the real world, there is only so much iron to be found, and in various ways that are either efficient or inefficient to acquire it.

Yeah, but we’re in a game and even with one character you’re able to gather a multiple of what you need for one Deldrimoor and Spiritwood a day.

Ohoni.6057:

None of this is true in Tyria. The amount of iron that enters the economy is determined by Anet. They set how many iron nodes spawn, how much ore you can extract from each, and what alternate methods, such as salvaging weapons and “lumps” exist, and how much each of those provide.

Yes, but like I said above, You can farm quite a lot of it still, you aren’t restricted to only x per day. Your restriction is 30-45 min for usual nodes to respawn, no respawn time if you’re using several characters to farm. That’s pretty generous actually.

Ohoni.6057:

If ANet determines that the price of Iron is higher than they would like, then they can cause new nodes to be available, or new items drop that can be salvaged for it, or they can reduce the amount of iron needed in certain key recipes that current require it.

Yes, they can and in case of softwood, cloth and leather they should. But they are a bit slow when it comes to that.

Ohoni.6057:

All of these methods have been employed at one point or another in the game’s lifespan, so don’t pretend for a second that this is mere speculation.

They did with Mithril a year ago but that only had a marginal effect, then they somehow increased the droprate of silk which had a momentarily huge effect and decreased the droprate of leather, increased the amount needed for leather crafting and added a new “recipe” which would use a lot of leather – that’s a typical example where they went wayyy over board again. Some day they might fix it. But nonetheless the effects most of these changes have are not as worse as you think.

Ohoni.6057:

The players set the price they believe is fair given supply and demand, but ultimately ANet sets those supply and demand conditions. If they make something difficult to get, then supply will drop. If they make it easy to get, supply will rise. If they make something very useful then demand will rise, if they make it useless junk then demand will fall, all of these factors are in their control at any time.

So you want everything to be useless junk so the mats required are cheap? And to who is it useless to anet or the players? If it’s the latter then who sets the price?

Ohoni.6057:

So NO, they very absolutely cannot pass the buck for the price of an item on to the players, and nor can anyone else do it in their stead. The price is exactly what ANet chooses for it to be, and if it ever is not for any length of time, then they have the tools to fix that and choosing not to use them IS a decision on their part.

I disagree. You want a precurser, so you either have to work or to pay for it. Those who sell it put the same effort into gathering it as the buyers would who decide to pass that effort. This is true for at least metal and wood.

Elodium.7263:

Person with lowest ping/best reaction wins with his 1-2 button win!

Isn’t that already the case for most classes?

Not saying I agree with the OP, I don’t.

Ohoni.6057:

Even if you already own every material needed in your bank, if it’s more cost-effective to sell those materials and use that gold to buy the Precursor outright, and have money left over, than to craft it, then something has broken down in the process.

Quoting without quoting.. tisk.
Of course it is, guess why my nose is golden.
Let’s see if you guys will finally get it:
The price of the precurser is made by players – it isn’t set, never was although one could call it stable.
Most mats (except cloth and leather) are availlble to everyone in the same quantity. So what the players have created is an imaginary worth of precursers and T7 mats (wood and metal).
Anet nerfed leather I think. And that was a mistake – other than that it’s the players who are to blame for the current stuation.
There was no other way to make a legendary journey for the old precursers free. It would’ve made them worthless and there’s also the mat sink factor which might also be the reason why the new legendaries require T7 mats as well.

Edit: You can argue that the game forces you to play in a way you don’t like – I understand that actually. It took me half a year to finish my incinerator although I had everything except the dungeon tokens. So there’s always something one is “forced to do” in order to achieve something. And I wish I had been able to just buy that kitten tokens.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

In this case however we know how to craft and are doing the crafting, but it cost the same as one at the store(tp). That doesn’t make sense, given all the extra work we have to do, given that we are doing it ourselves rather than purchasing it outright, it should by all means cost less than it does in a store. But it doesnt.

I don’t get why you guys don’t get it – the price of wood and metal is “imaginary”. It purely depends on supply and demand – everybody in this game has the same chance of getting them. It’s like everybody having an apple tree in their garden but most are too lazy to pick them, so the others profit of their laziness. In some cases people don’t have the time to get into their garden but those usually realize that they’ll need a bit more time for their apply pie.
When it comes to cloth and leather though it’s a different story as there’s RNG involved but node farming is steady.

Edit: Realized that I got you slightly wrong.
But the point still stands: Anet analyzed the average price of a precurser and set the material needed for the craftable version after that.
People who only need a few T7 mats don’t mind that their finished product costs 10 gold more than the TP price – thus the price for T7 mats will stay high. And I guess most people already/still have some T7 mats, so I don’t think that anyone really buys everything needed off the TP. I hope you get my point.

Feline Grace is not in this game anymore.

Anyway, some of your ideas are debateable – in fact all of them are, I’m not sure you want a thief with 22 might stacks and +200 more power.

But they are a base to discuss – all you ever do though is telling us to shut up and L2P whenever you visit the thief forums. And that is what I think is shabby – you have always been invited and probably still are to discuss the class with us. Problem is that most thieves already gave up, so we don’t really discuss things anymore.

apharma.3741:

Ever thought to stop grinding that axe of yours? Read the second part where I also said I’d be apprehensive of mesmers, eles, guards (if only one), engineers and rangers too in PvE.

Here’s a list of common stupid things I see from those classes in PvE which is the part we were talking about.

Thieves: Don’t know what a smoke field is nor how to blast it and keep us waiting on SR for stealth. Generally don’t strafe and go down all the time. Sometimes running PP and ranging missing out on might.

Mesmers: GS number 1 spamming at point blank range where it does the lowest damage. Using shatter burst combos which are terrible DPS. Not bringing reflects or stab or portal when needed or wanted.

Engineers: majority think they’re kitt hot by stacking 10 might and auto attacking in flamethrower kit. I’d go into more detail but I’ve very rarely seen others do anything else.

Rangers: Majority are bearbowing, missing out on might and other buffs while not contributing to the team in buffs either, usually not running frost/spotter. Big DPS loss even bothering with these people.

Elementalists: DD celestial nonsense, sure good in PvP but utter rubbish PvE. Sometimes running other weird condition builds or just plain weird builds that camp water because “I’m a healer”.

Guards (if only guard): Guards can alter the group comp dramatically with all their projectile mitigation, stability, aegis, heals and group blocks. Needless to say most aren’t terrible but I don’t like running 100% glass ele with a guard who might be running some mediPvP nonsense who won’t be giving out aegis for that time I don’t have a dodge.

As for your “play a thief” I do, I frequently am the thief and was the thief for the dungeons and other content we needed stealth in. Full zerk with DD and not once had a problem surviving and I didn’t use anything other than good positioning. I provided smoke fields for both defence and to stealth off, endurance regen, projectile destruction and reflection as well as healing and rezzing when needed. All redundant now because of engineer.

I have played with good thieves, engineers, eles, guards and mesmers on the occasion when someone else recommended them or offered to get someone they knew but the majority of pugs suck.

You seem like the prototype of an elitist.
I rarely use smoke screen let alone smoke fields as in most cases it’s useless – most pugs I run with don’t wait for the group = when should I pop my SR? It’s always too late for some. And I don’t think you know anything of thief at all and in most cases things don’t go as planned so one has to improvise which elitists like you see as a mistake.

I really should’ve tracked you down and watched you play while I was on GH

ETA: And again if you say that “most guards aren’t bad” but “most thieves are bad” then I do wonder why you don’t realize that our efforts to have thief buffed might be justified as PvE usually is that easy that all classes should have an roughly equal amount of good and bad players.

Aomine.5012:

1. Rich ores can be farmed by different characters. 9 alts with full wp unlocked is not a rare thing consider this game has been out for 3 years.

So can a group of wood nodes – you really didn’t get my point, did you?
I have 12 80s – takes me a bit over one hour to get them from Rayhan Bayt to Upsilon Test Facility – so from the “rich elder farming node” to the rich mithril node. At the end I have about 30 each on each character as I gather everything along the way. Mostly I also get 3 ori and 3 elder wood.
But If I’m in real real need of
Elder Wood: I let them stay there and log in once in a while.
Mithril: I farm the whole map with some characters.

Aomine.5012:

2. Each rich ores usually contain 16~18 ores, and they’re in fixed location.

No and No – all but rich iron veins contain 12-14 ores, 14 if your MF is really high. For Iron it would be around 20-25. Edit : A rich mithril node gives 10 – I’ll probably test this further.
Most of them aren’t in fixed locations – I only know of three: the Mithril north of the Upsilon Test Facility and the Iron in the overlook caverns and the Gallowfields, with the rest you may or may not be lucky to find them.

Aomine.5012:

3. Rich ores cycle takes only 15~20 minutes, netting around 180 ores per character.

Don’t know what you mean with that – you still can farm them only once per day with each character.

Aomine.5012:

4. Frankly, woods take MORE materials per component despite being harder to get.

There is some truth behind it but the “harder to get” isn’t quite true.
I did this test for you and stopped the time how much time I needed for the mats for 1 Spiritwood and 1 Deldrimoor.

The time for Deldimoor was shorter because it was a short time span – if I had farmed for longer – I would’ve gotten the same amount of wood and metal.
The other thing is the 4 soft wood logs needed for one plank and also the 3 elder wood needed for one plank.

Aomine.5012:

Anyway, I already answered the OP’s question while you guys are being off-topic and arguing for the sake of arguing while not helping OP at all.

Read my first post on this thread.

ETA: I did some rich vein research:
Iron: 15 and 18 ores
Platinum: 10,10 and 10 ores
Mithril: 10 and 10 ores.

And there are in fact more fix rich nodes then I initially remembered:
One iron in Gendarren Fields, one in Brisbane Wildlands, 3 Platinum in Sparkfly Fen, 1 Mithril in Malchors Leap, one in Southsun Cove – maybe I’ll remember more. But anyway; you can sumble across some more on these maps and those aren’t fix.

Aomine.5012:

The most efficient way of gathering woods is ignoring every possible mobs and events, running in a circle looking for woods. You call that not mindless? Plus lv1~60 maps are a joke that pose no threat at all while running around, so they can easily be ignored.

There’s not even rich woods like rich ores to begin with. Taking 200~300% longer to get woods than getting ores.

Ok then, be it your way. Hope you enjoy that logging.

I kill everything on the way- there was a time where I also did map completion by farming. And I loathe champ trains. But as I said in other posts directed to you – if you chose to not do node farming but other stuff in game you roughly get the same amount of gold the wood/metal is worth. Depends on what you’re doing – I guess those who currently try raids have it worse.

And your “no rich wood nodes” has got a flaw: wood usually is packed at several spots – so they “are basically rich nodes” and they respawn every 30-45 (not sure) minutes – rich nodes don’t, they take 24 hours.

Mouse.7382:

So my question is….to log all the wood myself (saw some maps online of routes to use)—roughly how long would something like this take in hours/day and to full completion?

After a while you’ll know all the spots to gather best – there’s also a website dedicated to farming which might help at the start.

I usually go for metal and wood, and for platinum, hard wood, mithril and elder wood I get roughly the same result after farming Sparkfly Fen and Malchor’s Leap: ~120 each in about 45 mins. (=1,5 hours for both maps)
Softwood is a lot harder to get- after farming one map it’s about 80 soft wood and 80 iron. Same might be true for seasoned, haven’t really stopped the time for that.
You get some/a lot elder wood by salvaging if you do other content though and the mining nodes in wvw objectives are really nice – so farm them if you’re there. If you have multiple ~80 characters, park them in Malchor’s Leap at the statue and use them to farm Elder wood.
In the end it’s hard to tell how long everybody individually needs to gather all the needed mats – and I actually don’t know what the requirements are so I can’t tell how long I would need.

Alright 90 Spiritwood planks would take me ~90 hours and some silver for all the waypoint costs – but I’m a pro node farmer, I guess

ETA: And honestly; I wouldn’t do it to that extend as even I get bored after a while.

apharma.3741:

I would be very apprehensive about running with a thief player I didn’t know or have seen play. It’s not because I think they bring nothing to the table or can’t pull their weight, it’s because most thief players I’ve seen in PvE suck. I mean they suck so much they can be used to clean the home with and potentially put Dyson out of business.

Whenever there’s a thread on the thief forum asking for buffs you come and complain about thieves wanting buffs. Now you say every single thief is bad – ok – did you ever stop to think about your behaviour? Cause you really should.
Or just roll a thief so you can finally judge what is and what isn’t a “good thief”.

Xillllix.3485:

PvP was almost an eSport about 16 months ago, it felt that every class was almost perfectly balanced, with only a few builds that were kinda questionable (like turret engi). It all went downhill since then and there is no indication that it will ever get back to be as great as it once was, specially considering how they’ve made some of the same mistakes again with the elite professions like tempest.

People used to complain about 10k backstabs from a medium class. Now you get heavy classes doing 14k 1200 range hits on a ridiculously low cooldown. How did that get by testing?

+1
The ferocity patch probably was the best that could happen to this game.
Although thief was kind of forced to go zerker as the damage otherwise wouldn’t be enough to survive – maybe that was true for all classes – I just know thief best.
And I do wonder if that really was intended and if so what went wrong this June.

Kolly.9872:

1) give thief the same base health of mesmers and engis
2) 15 or even 20 ini baseline and weapon swap gives back half of the missing initiative
3) Ways to remove revealed or remove all skills that applies it or since always more classes but thieves can apply it, just remove the self applied reveal.

You didn’t get what I meant – with more initative = more BS and stealth spam = thieves have to be glassier so that others can shut them down = thieves are forced to use stealth = revealed skills – that is the problem.
So in the end what people wished thieves would do was 12 initiative; 6 for stealth, 6 for BS.

With a cooldown system though thief wouldn’t be thief.

Sell all mats you have (cloth, leather, wood, cooking ingredients..) – if you know you don’t need them in foreseeable future. If you’ve got enough Karma turn it into T4 leather and sell. Mats go really well right now.

Cynz.9437:

after doing some raids and pvp with rev, ini is NOT issue and this change won’t do anything for thieves

what thieves need is dmg boost and way to get through defensives (prot/invuls etc.)

also they REAAALLLLYYY need massive buff to team support capability (be it boon share, heal etc.) otherwise there is no point to bring them anywhere

i am running atm on rev doing 12k AAs alone while sharing might with everyone, blasting fields is history~

Initative is a problem – I said it in another thread (in case someone wonders he’s heard that before) :

I watched an old video of a D/D thief recently, he was running 26600 = 12 initative.
And after a while I wondered why he really only used CnD and BS (and rarely Dancing Dagger) – because he couldn’t affort anything else.
But the initative is what brought us the problems we have: We can “spam BS”, so we were made glassier and glassier and were more and more forced to be “endless stealthed”. And then they brought revealed traits/skills as a counter and gave other classes better stealth- that is the part I don’t get.
If they now gave us a longer reveal so we couldn’t spam stealth + BS we would basically have a cooldown system – which we kind of already have when forcefully revealed.

TEEF FOR LYFE!

I agree with what you said.
I only mentioned me being a D/D thief because it’s the purest form of combat this game has – no invulnerability, no utility and I need to hit my target to stealth – so all the extras of other classes hurt me a lot – and that’s probably why I notice them more than others do.

How about weaponswap regenerates 6 initative? So you could at least use one skill of your choice.
In the end there’s so much wrong with thief/the game that initiative regain wouldn’t change that much – but I’m in – at least 6 would be nice.

I just thought about balance and had a discussion with a friend earlier about that anet has to change the powercreep and what would happen with raids if they do – he said “just separate wvw, pve and pvp” I don’t think this is the best idea actually as OP classes are bad in either game mode – but maybe that would be a good start. Well, then I thought about how this would work the fastest – by recruiting top pve player (speedrunner), pvp player and wvw player. Problem with that is that my thief feels so broken that everything is OP to me – I can’t tell what’s lag, bug or really an OP class mechanic. So I feel as if I can’t really say anything about what thief needs right now.

incisorr.9502:

snip

The problems you listed were already there from June on.
I can tell you this as a D/D thief who has got no utility but raw fight.
Rangers, Guards, Warrior, Mesmer, Eles had multiple, sometimes passive invulnerabilities, they could go tanky and still dish out an insane amount of damage, or they could go full zerker and be protected by their invulnerabilities.

My take – Sorry eles :P

Serious Thought.5394:

I’d be so much better and more efficient if…

Don’t get me started

Kolly.9872:

He is just playing the game how it is supposed to be played. The few of us that still play thief are doing it wrong.

And even worse – I’m the only thief in wvw-the rest is daredevil.

Yes, I have been and am burned out.
The reasons: Bugs, imbalance, too many new players (which isn’t bad per se but can be exhausting).
Maybe I felt as if I had too much responsibility.

Phoenix the One.4071:

Nope, I say most of the complains is a L2P issue, but that I feel that most thieves complains got some truth in them, rather than just crying.. Was I not clear enough? I might not have been clear enough cause I got lost in my long text.
Or maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.

Not clear enough for me – maybe you were but I got you wrong

archmagus.7249:

You guys really don’t read the description for the tomes, do you? If used by a level 80, they give spirit shards. With masteries, you no longer get them by leveling up, making them the only reliable way to get spirit shards. You also get tomes from the login rewards.

Jana.6831:

I agree with the Op actually, although I wouldn’t miss the writs weren’t they around anymore. I’m doing less than one PvE daylie a day, so it takes me ~ a month to get 20 to turn them into a tome of knowledge – which are useful for me as I can always use spirit shards. But even if the droprate was increased, they constantly clogg up one of my bank spaces which is annoying.

You don’t get them for leveling up since June.

Linken.6345:

1 space on 1 character or in bank is all your complaining about?

Since you have atleast 5 character slots then put it on a mule.

Yeah sure – I don’t have other stuff anet hasn’t decided yet whether it will return or not.

Phoenix the One.4071:

snip

Tl:dr
Complains are L2P-issues, most professions are not that OP. But thieves lacks something that makes the, worth playing, other than great mobility.

Sorry for the spam

So you say thief was never high risk high reward because they were dead instantly and then call the thief complaints on this forum (with the very same topic since June/HoT (depending on the build)) a “L2P issue” – well ok then.

Draknar.5748:

Jana.6831:

Draknar.5748:

Jana.6831:

I’m doing less than one PvE daylie a day, so it takes me ~ a month to get 20 to turn them into a tome of knowledge -

So….zero PvE dailies?

If you want writs, do the PvE dailies. If you don’t care about writs, don’t do them. But don’t sit here saying it’s hard to get writs while purposely not doing the content that gives the writs.

I play the game like I used to – and that is wvw and some node gathering = one wrist “a day” – I hope you get my point now.

Well, then you won’t get as many writs. I don’t know what else to say. You have the information and the ability to get more writs, but if you simply don’t want to play outside of your preferred game type, then you need to be OK with not getting a lot of writs.

I don’t get many badges of honor, because I don’t do much WvW. But I don’t feel it’s a problem that I can’t get badges of honor outside of WvW. If I want badges I need to do WvW. I need badges if I want to make a legendary. I have the option of complaining on the forums that badges need to be available in fractals (my preferred game type), or I can go into WvW and get the badges. I do the latter. But that’s not for everyone I suppose.

You didn’t get my point – could you at least try, be silent or be nice?

ETA: To help you:
I’m playing the game as I used to for now 2 years. Half a year ago anet introduced the extras for doing daylies, like drops of wxp which have since been scratched. Those could be used with a double click, but you have to gather 20 writs to make a use of them – in the meantime they clogg up a bankslot of mine. Can’t even use them with a level 80 – so all I can do is destroy them or hoard them. So yes, it would be better if they were replaced by something which is instantly useable.

I’m still useful!
As a +1 and such nods