Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

No no I mean benefits for being revealed, like RT

Now, THAT’S what I’m wanting! I like the idea of Revealed giving a thief benefits… especially if Revealed Training is traited. The +200 power is nice and all, but it’s not that special. Why not give us some utility on top of that? Like the new Haste or Swiftness… or even Stability.

Or, if we want to get crazy, some damage reduction while Revealed… or decreasing Revealed duration by a third.

It would at least give some counterplay to revealing abilities that other professions have come Tuesday. And we would have to give up Panic Strike to gain it.

Of course, I still want the ability to Backstab while unstealthed if I’m behind the target. Just make Backstab possible only when not Revealed, and have Backstab apply Revealed, but perhaps with a shorter duration than usual. I don’t like having to enter stealth just to get access to the most powerful attacks.

Ah, my bad. Edited topic line. I meant for the non-stealth events for the TEEF guild.

But yes, I’m excited to see the details of the new Flanking Strike in the Trickery line. But also, I’m curious about the cooldown for Hard to Catch in Acrobatics. If it’s low, I really don’t want to give it up.

I see so much damage potential from both the DA and CS lines, I don’t know which to give up if I’m using a sword. And Acrobatics looks like a life-saver.

Urgh, Anet… can’t you let us choose 4 traitlines unless we choose Shadow Arts? Please?

babazhook.6805:

Well if you want a defintion of no skill combat it saturating areas with AOE

Hahaha, I just want a trap on heal is all. Sadly, I don’t really have much AoE to skillessly saturate an area with. But I do have to deal with it… in all of my squishy glory! :-P

AoE may not be skillful, but it is quite effective against me :-P

Yeah, I guess that’s another issue. Shadow Refuge is pretty quick. But if I forget to lay my Shadow Trap (being on cooldown usually), then my only option is to lay it in the middle of the fight. That takes long enough when I’m getting blasted. Even if the enemy triggers it immediately, I’m teleporting right on top of him… who is already on top of me, spamming the area with attacks/AoE.

Yeah, I do love it WvW. But I’ve been playing a lot of PvP recently in order to get better at combat.

I’ll just have to get used to avoiding putting my Shadow Refuge anywhere near an engi. That’s actually why I was trying to replace it with Shadow Trap. Oh well, that’s why I run Sword/Dagger as my other set instead of Shortbow. If I can’t stealth attack to kill a target, I’ll teleport and evade him to death :-P

I read it was Sword/Dagger and Shortbow. Is Sword/Pistol also allowed?
And what are the builds that you guys are looking at?

I want to try this…
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBrALkBLw~

If that didn’t work well, and I were to switch to Trickery, which of the above lines should I give up?

babazhook.6805:

The proposed needle trap on heal was removed. Instead trappers respite gives 5 stacks might and 5 stacks vulnerability on the enemy. It lowers the recharge on traps 20 percent. Added to that traps set off will no longer reveal the thief.

This means of course with shadow trap you get.

Yes, it’s sad, though, because I won’t be getting Shadow Trap. Needle Trap on heal was the defining feature for me. A trap without taking a spot on my utility bar.

I was trying to replace Shadow Refuge with Shadow Trap recently. It just can’t compete in its current state. It never seems to fail… I place the trap away from a combat zone, then I get into a fight. I either get immobilized or I get low on health, so I have to find cover while I’m casting Destroy Shadow Trap. I end up shadowstepping approximately 3 feet away into a wall instead of half the map away where i was expecting.

My sword’s Infiltrator’s Strike/Return are SO much more reliable avoiding LoS obstacles. I wish Shadow Trap would behave more like it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a BIG fan of Shadow Trap… when it works. Sadly, it’s about as reliable as the current Hard to Catch when kiting a zerg on cliffs.

So, basically, the only way to counter this combo is by avoiding the Steal, correct? Unless someone manages to interrupt the BP pre-cast before Steal? Especially if Sleight of Hand is traited.

Pre-Cast BP+Steal+HS
https://youtu.be/EBoDa3m0uws?t=284

If the Steal does connect, is there anyway to avoid the initial blinding?

By the way, when does the interrupt from Headshot take place? Is it instant, or does the projectile have to connect first?

Jesiah.2457:

I keep seeing people crying for counter play to stealth on threads, but this isn’t counter play. There is no counter play to something you cannot counter which =/= counter play. If you get hit by the massive amount of endless spam engineers have, it doesn’t matter how much you dodge / avoid damage, one little mistake in that huge aoe spam fest and lolrevealed.

Hmm, for some reason, that made me think of an idea. Thieves will already take damage from AoE spam. Why not just flip this thing backwards? Instead of revealing AND damaging the thief, why not just reveal the thief and make the thief do 0 damage for the next 6 seconds… as well as giving the thief 6 seconds of invulnerability?

Basically, just neutralize the thief for 6 seconds.

Oops… I think I may have just given Anet their next idea for an engi trait! :-(

Warkind.6745:

And in return us thieves get a trait that breaks blocks and stacks vulnerability on hitting a blocking enemy, right?

I actually like that idea! Why can’t thieves trait for unblockable attacks?

So are we talking very high-level interrupt skills required?

What professions have insta-cast interrupts?

King.1985:

tldr; no, just dodge the black powder shot from the pistol 5 and proceed to interrupt

Does that work if I teleport the Black Powder with me on steal? That is to Black Powder right on top of the target. Or, as the attacking thief, is it best for me to auto-attack until the 2nd pulse before I Heartseeker for stealth and Backstab?

Elementalist: “Nerf stealth”
Engineer: “Nerf stealth”
Guardian: “Nerf stealth”
Necromancer: “Nerf stealth”
Ranger: “Nerf stealth”
Warrior: “Nerf stealth”

Mesmer: “Nerf Thief”

Thief: “Roll a thief and see how difficult it is… oh, and nerf Shoutbow/Medi-guard” ;-P

But you didn’t mention anything about adding health, armor, evasions, or invulnerabilities. Thieves are too squishy already. Stealth is a defensive tool.

When you start talking about giving the thief some COVER, only then should you start talking about removing CONCEALMENT.

babazhook.6805:

It should be obvious that if one is not going to use traps and leverage them to the max or do the same with dagger training while using daggers and leveraging to the max , Mug wins out but it an ILLOGICAL argument to make for mug.

Mug would probably win out anyway, it’s just that good universally. But a needle trap on heal gives a lot of utility by itself. Might, vulnerability, and recharge are just icing on the cake… even without using any other traps.

I’d love to use it in PvP when fighting on point… even if I can’t use Trapper runes there. My utility bar is already full. Being able to add that extra element to a fight could be quite beneficial. Just think of the mindset of the opposing players…

“He just used Withdraw. If I chase him, I may get immobilized/bleeds/poison. He’s not worth it.”

Even if most thieves still chose Mug, it may still cause opponents to second guess. And that’s not even mentioning how well it would synergize with the changes made to traps, so they won’t reveal a thief… especially for Hide in Shadows.

Yeah, it seems there may be some tough choices to be made when the patch hits.

I was just testing to see what is currently possible. They were just tests in non-combat conditions, so actual use may vary.

I had 6 in Shadow Arts with Master of Deception, and 3 in Trickery with Merciful Ambush. D/P and Shortbow, Hide in Shadows, Shadow Refuge, and Smoke Screen.

If I timed things correctly, I could maintain permanent stealth. I had about 15 seconds to run around after Shadow Refuge. After leaping through Smoke Screen seven times (I believe), I had about 10 seconds of stealth. Hide in Shadows usually bought me enough time for a cooldown to reset. And if I got into a pinch, Black Powder allowed me to leap through it.
With the new changes, it looks like the choices will be between…

Remove conditions in stealth… or… 20% cooldown reduction (needed for perma-stealth)

Stealth on fall… or… regain health and initiative while in stealth

2 of 3: Blinding Powder (instant group stealth)… or… Smoke Screen (needed for perma-stealth)… or… Shadowstep (mobility, stun-break, and remove conditions)

2 of 3: Dagger/Pistol (leaping and smoke field)… or… Shortbow (mobility and blast finisher)… or Sword/Pistol (remove conditions and smoke field)

I guess it depends on how much condi-removal and stealth up-time you need. And also how difficult it would be to maintain stealth in a combat environment. Again, I haven’t played as a ninja nurse. I did play around with a perma-stealth Caltrops build in PvP a few times. While I couldn’t deal much damage at all, it wasn’t too difficult to remain invisible if I focused on it… but I definitely had to be careful where I put my Smoke Screen so I wouldn’t Heartseeker into an enemy.

Ps. I do with I could display a timer on boons/conditions/stealth. It would make it so much easier than having to use a tooltip.

babazhook.6805:

dagger got a 5 percent baseline boost

I’m not sure of that. I know they said that on the older preview video, but I didn’t see it in the newest notes.

Hmm, if Stealth we a boon, and Reveal were a condition, that would mean that thieves could have stacks of Stealth, but remain visible because of Reveal. That means that an invisible thief could steal a visible thief’s Stealth, remaining invisible indefinitely! :-D

Of course, with the new Flanking Strike trait, a simple attack from behind may be able to remove Revealed, giving a thief an instant Backstab opportunity! :-D

As for the 10% bonus damage on Cluster Bomb, we would have to give up the ferocity in the new Practiced Tolerance trait, and it would only affect crippled enemies. The main addition would be the actual chance to cripple. I suppose it would help to counter the loss of Ricochet, even though it’s on a different weapon. Besides, I already feel like I’m shooting spitwads instead of arrows.

Oh, and the Harpoon Gun got rolled into Ankle Shots from Power Shots. It seems the Shortbow has been left out. Why not just roll it in also?

T raw.4658:

Even in just those terms you can mix/match your gear to make up for the loss in Vit.

I know that isn’t the most ideal solution, but fortunately for ascended gear, a dev just posted this regarding stat changes…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/first#post5173842

yolo swaggins.2570:

Updated top post.

Sorry, just for clarity, was the update to add the event on the 23rd? Thanks! :-)

Ps. Do you know what time the event will begin?

Terra Dactyl.2047:

So wait, thieves get fury for 4s on a 10s cd for hitting people below 90% hp? (basically everyone), does it shut back off at some point or do they just spam fury on themselves?

It appears that it’s good as long as the target is under 90%. And that makes me very happy… I won’t be forced into Trickery to get fury for No Quarter. YAY! :-D

Ps. Thank you, Karl!!!

Just curious to know what people think about adding shortbows to the new Ankle Shots trait. Would it be too much? Does the shortbow need it? Or would it just make Achilles cry? :-P

Haha, you’ve got my mind working now :-P

I have some more questions to ask so I can see if I can come up with some solutions to the new system.

Shortbow: Do you use it mainly for mobility, blasting to stealth allies, or blasting to remove conditions?

Shadowstep: Do you use it mainly for stun break or to remove conditions?

Decent Into Shadows: Do you use it mainly to enter stealth? Or to blind foes?

By the way, have you thought of replacing Blinding Powder with Smoke Screen? It’s another smoke field to blast Area Stealth… and you can get more leaps through it than with Black Powder… and it has a shorter cooldown.

Against a Dagger/Pistol thief, I know you can interrupt the normal combo of Black Powder/Heartseeker by interrupting the Heartseeker.

But is there a way to interrupt this combo?
Pre-cast Black Power/Steal/Heartseeker

Will the target be blinded immediately, negating any interrupt attempt? Just curious. I find myself using it as much as I can.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mug is for those who have an aggressive playstyle while Trapper is for those who are more defensive.

Knowing your playstyle makes this choice a lot easier.

I’m pretty sure I could make good offensive use with a free immobilize every 18 seconds plus bleed and poison. Not to mention if I use Trapper’s runes.

I’m looking for more choice than anything. Without the trap, I don’t see any reason to choose Trapper’s Respite over Mug. Even if I use a condi build, I don’t see how Dagger Training can compete much with Mug. That’s a lot of damage and healing to make up for. 2 second poison on a 2 second cooldown… and 33% chance of actually applying… with only dagger attacks.

Just wanting a viable alternative is all :-)

On Ready Up, Karl mentioned Hide in Shadows leaving behind a trap. Is this still true?

Please give me a reason to not choose Mug for my thief. Please make Trapper’s Respite leave behind a needle trap on heal as it was mentioned before. Thank you! :-D

Heller Highwater.4967:

Also, if I want Shadow’s Rejuvenation, I can’t take Cloaked in Shadows. While this seems pretty silly on its face, in practice intentionally taking fall damage to gain stealth is a pretty important part of how I play if I’m in the middle of a hostile zerg.

Just wondering… with Shadow Protector supposedly stacking with no cooldown, will that make Shadow’s Rejuvenation less of a necessity?

And also, do you happen to have a link to the Ninja Nurse build? I’m curious to see. Thanks! :-D

Jana.6831:

There can’t be – either the thief is disabeled (revealed) or he isn’t (he can stealth) – there is nothing in between.

I think that’s what he is suggesting… for Anet to create something in between.

Coronit.9432:

Elite-specialisation Pirate? Or dear, gonna have to take some name like Teef Sparrow or Edward Teef. I´m praying everyday that it wont something like pirate or burglar. That horror O.O

Personally, I’m hoping for something like Hacker or Spy…

Hacker:
So I can transfer my 1,000+ ping to the enemy team.

Spy:
So I can use a variety of new deceptions to throw the opposition into chaos. Examples would be like…

1. Disguise as another profession… so I don’t look like a squishy thief.
2. Steal a disguise from an opponent to give me all of their abilities.
3. Disguise myself as an opponent. This makes my nametag look friendly to them.
4. Disorient an enemy (or group of enemies), so they all appear hostile to each other… and can damage each other.
5. Put a commander tag on myself (or convert a friendly commander’s tag) that will show up on the opponent’s map, leading them into an ambush.

Hey, I can dream, can’t I? :-D

StickerHappy.8052:

If I was welcome I would, A lot of the thieves hate me for sure haha!

Hey, everybody hates us thieves, so come join the hate-fest! :-D

TEEF is an equal-opportunity guild. Learn how to kill and be killed. The more, the merrier… I think! :-P

But remember, we are thieves, after all. We’re likely to stab you in the back when we feel like it. And with the new changes coming up, it looks like that will remove a condition every time we do! :-D

By the way, if you want to know what to expect from the guild, just watch this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1l7N-WLa3Q

Interesting, thank you. It seems swords may be the way to go. I’m getting ready! :-D

Heller Highwater.4967:

Still, I’m sure there’ll be ways to adapt. We’ll still all be out there, healing from the shadows one way or another. :-D

I’ve never run a ninja nurse build, but from what I see, you’ve got…

MINOR
Merciful Ambush:
Stealth yourself and your target for 3 seconds when reviving an ally. You revive allies 10% faster.

Resilience of Shadows:
Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage by 25%.

ADEPT
Shadow’s Embrace:
Remove 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth.

MASTER
Shadow Protector:
When you grant stealth to an ally, they gain 3 seconds of regeneration. This effect no longer has an internal cooldown. (This supposedly stacks now, so blasting and Shadow Refuge can increase duration)

GRANDMASTER
Shadow’s Rejuvenation:
Regenerate health and initiative while in stealth.

That’s quite a lot of healing and damage resistance in Shadow Arts. Take 25% less damage, heal (from two traits), remove conditions, AND regenerate initiative in stealth.

Indeed, but I’m still excited more than annoyed.

I know it may be odd, but I really, really, REALLY want heal skills to leave needle traps, especially with them no longer revealing a thief. Withdraw could truly be able to create distance then.

If striking an enemy under 90% health gives fury, then I can take No Quarter without taking Trickery and still have fury for the majority of the fight.

And if Flanking Strike does grant fury as well, then I can choose it over Thrill of the Crime. Not to mention that if it removes a condition, backstabbing will become a wonderful way to cleanse conditions! :-D

Hmm, would this begin to change the meta?

Video here…
https://youtu.be/Pbdl5WoAI90?t=14153

1. Karl mentioned something about heals like Hide in Shadows leaving a trap, but it was not listed anywhere in the changes. Can heal skills still be traited to leave traps?

2. Karl said there may be a typo about Unrelenting Strikes. It may be that the health threshold is when the target is under 90% instead of 50%. Is that the case? I hope so!

3. They said Practiced Tolerance wasn’t changed. But it is listed to affect ferocity instead of vitality. Which is true?

4. Does Shadow Protector truly grant regeneration for every application of stealth? Or only when entering stealth? I guess we won’t know until we actually get to test it.

5. Does the Flanking Strike trait grant the “trick” haste? If so, does that mean it grants fury and removes a condition? I got confused in how they worded it… talking about it being affected by the “trick cooldown reduction” trait.

I’m starting to see a LOT of potential if some of these swing the right way! :-D

FirebrandFrog.7603:

But just a bit of advice, sir: don’t ever be too attached to a company brand. Capcom and Konami fans learned that the hard way, and I don’t want to see your heart break, either.

And never, ever, EVER allow Ubisoft or Electronic Arts to get anywhere NEAR your beloved games or developers!!! :’-(

Kury.8210:

That’s pretty awesome! Maybe enough to encourage ninja revives… Is it replacing Last Refuge? Also, where’s the new info coming from?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/first

And it’s switching places with Last Refuge. Last Refuge is now a choice… IF you want it :-P

Merciful Ambush is becoming a minor trait in the Shadow Arts line. You get it for free now :-)

WhiteCrow.5310:

You should watch this before making a decision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

Ok, haven’t even thought about getting a sig until this. Thank you! :-D

Fay.2357:

That…wasn’t an opinion up for debate. That was a fact. If all classes are down to 50% on vigor, and thieves trait for 100%, then they’re 2x ahead of all the other classes. Math doesn’t lie.

Unless I’m mistaken, thieves will only be able to increase vigor effectiveness by 50% of the nerfed vigor. So, it will be 75% of the current vigor compared to 50% of an untraited (non)thief.

Cynz.9437:

yo yolo… i have suggestion: how about to gather all thieves on 23rd, spec into sd and go troll matches with evades and refuse to rez teammates (besides fellow thieves ofc)?

Zero Day.2594:

Then we can switch to P/D and just make the cry even more…

It sounds perfect for me. I almost always run d/x and s/d together. Alas, I really do have to learn how to use a shortbow well.

I want to find out how many people will complain about stealth after they get barraged with swords! :-D

Sweetbread.4701:

Also when it clears all impaired movement conditions (this is NOT a small thing) on the class that already has the highest movement and disengage potential in the game it can lead to a lot of uncounterable fight resets in a very short time frame. Head scratching balance decisions as usual.

That’s because a thief that can’t move is a dead thief… period. We can’t take hits like other professions. We can’t clear conditions like other professions. We can’t go invulnerable like other professions.

We have to keep moving or we are dead. That’s why the new Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop traits are exciting to me. Will they go meta? Time will tell. But I plan on making good use of them.

Then again, I’m not a stealth-reliant thief. I like to put as much pressure on a target as I can. I really do have to learn to disengage more.

What exactly is the goal of nerfing vigor? Do reduce the amount of dodges? Or to reduce skilless dodge spamming? For a thief, dodging is one of the main methods to survive. Why not change Endless Stamina to something like this…

Endless Stamina
Restores 25% (or even 50%) of endurance on a successful evade.

Even restoring 10-15% per evade with no cooldown seems feasible. At least it would only benefit skilled evasion, not spam. It would also give some counterplay to a ranger’s Rapid Shot.

quagganzilla.6450:

now they’re making it so towers can have a stealth revealing buff around them

I’ve missed this. Do you have a link to this info?

My main issue with anything that removes the ability for a thief to stealth is that it takes our backstab away. Without anything able to match the damage potential of backstab when unstealthed, what are we supposed to do?

Traenn.3471:

a) Range indicator ( small red bar below skill icon) on both Destroy Shadow Trap and Shadow Pursuit is always red when you dont have a target and no idicator ( saying you’re in range ) when you do. It’s simply misleading.

My suggestion : make all teleport skills track the “no valid path to target” . If there is no red bar then after using a skill you’ll teleport to the target location and if there is a red bad and you use it anyway you’ll get “no valid path to target” and for now skill goes on cooldown ( until you figure out better solution to this problem )

I definitely want an indicator if the “return” portions will not return me to the original location. It gets me killed way too often when I use Shadow Trap.

And as unbalanced as it may seem, I would prefer the option to “destroy” the Shadow Trap if my current position will not return me to the original position, but without ANY cooldown. So I could place another Shadow Trap down immediately. It’s not my fault that the mechanics are bugged. Perhaps have it tied to being out of combat also… like weapon swap is. If I’m not in combat, I can destroy/set a Shadow Trap at will. It wouldn’t be nearly as powerful as a mesmer’s portal.

Traenn.3471:

b) Shadow Pursuit activation window is currently 10s which is easy to miss when you’re in combat and there is no telling how much time you have left to use it once you spot it.

My suggestion : Increase activation window to 20s, put it on a tooltip and add some sort of indicator that starts blinking when you’re running out of time ( like Stealth or Larcenous Strike )

Agreed. It is much too subtle of a change as it is now. I honestly don’t know if Shadow Trap is broken half the time, or if an enemy has set it off, and I just didn’t notice. I tend to believe the former, though.

Strategist.6132:

I really really hope SA will go as the meta.

Personally, I don’t really care what is "meta’ and what isn’t. I just want builds to be effective. If the meta gets buffed along with everything else, great. If the meta gets nerfed, but everything else gets buffed, also fine with me. But if the meta remains the meta because it and everything else gets nerfed, that’s a terrible thing :-(

Ah, understood. I saw you had swiftness on dodge, but I guess it lacks in uptime :-P

Ps. Would Sigil of Water be a decent alternative to Sigil of Frailty?

Just for my own curiosity, what is the advantage Thrill of the Crime over Bountiful Theft?

I wish they would just increase the base health for the Thief, and be done with it. They already seem to be herding us into a kamikaze-type role. Do as much damage as you can before you die.

Nerfing endurance regeneration, Shadow Protector, forcing a choice between Cloaked in Shadow and Shadow’s Rejuvenation… I don’t know what else they want, really. Especially with all of the nasty damage that every profession can do now. And I don’t even need to mention the engi.

Thinking about different ways to buff a thief, this idea came to mind. I’m curious to know what fellow thieves think. And just to clarify, Healing Seed is the item we steal from rangers. Options are as follows…

1a. Create a dome around the tree that reflects projectiles.

1b. Make the tree itself absorb projectiles.

2a. The tree draws nearby pets to to it.

2b. The tree puts nearby pets to sleep.

I just find the Healing Seed to be less than useful in actually countering a ranger. I’m curious if I’m in the minority.

You do see that by nerfing this, it would make mesmers very sad, don’t you? They already dislike that thieves are considered their hardcounter. By nerfing the ectoplasm, you are removing the incentive for a thief to keep a mesmer alive during a teamfight.

Just think of them as the ugly girl/guy in the group of their very attractive friends. The only reason people have them around is because they have lots of money. Focus on everyone else until you need them. Hit them up occasionally, then ignore them for another while ;-P