They conclude that thief is weak because it is weak at the things they want to do (1v1, teamfight?).
I would define it as “weak” because it is very fragile and doesn’t have the damage output as other professions do. So it is weak both defensively and offensively.
Yes, it is very mobile, but it can be mobile and weak simultaneously.
And while speed is a “stregnth,” being fast does not make the Thief “strong.” It simply makes it fast.
Behold, I give you the salvation of the Thief profession! A new traitline! First, just completely roll Acrobatics in with Daredevil to make room for this one. It is called…
I’m Too Sexy For My Stealth
It is the opposite of Shadow Arts. It benefits the Thief whenever it is not in Stealth, and has special benefits when Revealed.
Adept Minor
Oh No, You Didn’t!:
When Revealed, gain Retaliation and Fury for the duration of Revealed.
Note: This is accompanied by the Thief saying the name of the trait and doing a “finger shake” animation.
Adept Majors
Ghostbuster:
While not in Stealth, Reveal any nearby stealthed opponents.
Let My Light Shine:
When Revealed, create a Light Field that Blinds all nearby opponents. This pulses one time per second for the duration of Revealed.
Now You See Me, Now You Don’t:
When Revealed, remove Revealed and enter Stealth. This can happen only one time every 30 seconds.
Master Minor
I Can Run, But I Can’t Hide:
While not in Stealth, movement speed is increased by 25% and Stealth Attacks will replace auto-attacks. When Revealed, gain Superspeed and Quickness for the duration of Revealed.
Master Majors
Overwhelming Presence:
While not in Stealth, gain Vigor and Cripple nearby foes for 1 second. Pulses every second.
The Three Amigos! (AKA: Amigos! Amigos! Amigos!):
When Revealed, create two illusions of yourself. They can do minimal damage. If destroyed, another illusion(s) will be created. They will move, perform, and look exactly as you do. They will last for the duration of Revealed.
Note: Their positions will be random. This also works best when wearing a Mexican-style outfit.
Black, Not Dark Knighted:
When Revealed, gain Resistance and any strike that hits you is a Glancing blow for the duration of Revealed. They are but flesh wounds!
Grandmaster Minor
Peek-a-boo!:
When Revealed, all nearby opponents receive a jump scare image of your Thief’s face on their screen.
Note: Scream included.
Grandmaster Majors
I Sparkle In The Sun:
While not in Stealth, Blind an opponent when they strike you. Also drink their blood… oops, I mean steal health.
Look Me In The Eyes (AKA: Medusa’s Gaze):
When Revealed, any opponent who is facing you and you are also facing is stunned for 3 seconds. Only happens once per target per application of Revealed.
Note: Must have Line of Sight.
Too Pretty To Hide:
When Revealed, “taunts” all nearby opponents for 3 seconds, drawing them to you, though they cannot attack with anything other than kisses.
Note: This causes the targets to use the “drool” animation.
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Like I’ve said before, people won’t agree that the Thief is weak even when it has been nerfed to have only ONE hitpoint and ONE “weapon” (Shortbow) with ONE skill (Infiltrator’s Arrow).
They will still complain about how overpowered and essential it is because the top teams still play with one.
And again, the Ranger would most likely push Thieves out of the meta if they could only send their pet across the map to (de)cap a point.
if we are allied with pirates and bandits we can’t get kill achivements, finish events etc :<
Well, we are supposed to be bad guys, after all. We can always stab them in the back ;-)
And don’t forget about ignoring passive defenses also. Stunning myself makes no sense!
This is clearly the way things need to go. First of all, everyone hates Thieves. Well, let’s give them a reason to. How? We create a Thieves only server. Only Thieves are allowed on this server, of course.
What’s the difference between it and normal servers? Because our one server interacts with all other servers.
World vs. World
We are given secret underground lairs. Only Thieves can enter them. And our role is to annoy and harass everyone else. So you can enter into the lair, choose a portal to whatever tier match-up you desire (like Blackgate/Jade Quarry/Yak’s Bend), then enter the map of your desire (Eternal Battlegrounds for instance).
We aren’t there for conquest (to take keeps and such), we are there for one specific reason… to STEAL. Steal what? FUN!!!
So we will pop out of our underground tunnels and roam the land just waiting for helpless passers-by. We will kill them, laugh at them, then disappear into the shadows.
PvE
What a coincidence! We do the same thing in PvE that we do in WvW. We roam the different maps, killing everyone we come across. What makes this mode so much fun? We can steal kills! We are also allied with all of the AI bandits and pirates.
Dungeons/Fractals
We steal the treasures, of course!
PvP
What? Thieves in PvP? Are you joking????
Wow, I think I saw a flying whale!?!?!? :-P
Be that as it may, forcing builds out of the game through sheer hard counter is hardly healthy. Remember, we want to promote build diversity. I think having one class, even if it’s my class, be the gatekeeper for PvP is just not good for the game mode as a whole.
Oh, I’m not saying that Thieves force builds out of the game. I’m just saying that Thieves are simply the first to get their shot at the fragile builds. If there were no Thieves, those builds would simply die as soon as they made contact with other professions.
Yes, a Thief can hound a player all game, but all that changes is the nonviable build is slaughtered off-point instead of on-point.
And really, in most likelihood, any build that can be taken out so simply by a Thief probably has a good chance at taking the Thief out by swinging wildly and randomly in the air. It doesn’t take much at all, just some luck.
Hello, boys and girls! It’s time to gather around the campfire again! What do I have in store for you this time? S’mores? Oh no, something much sweeter, and guaranteed to bring many salty tears. It’s called: F5!
Yes, you’ve heard of F3 and F4 , but this one may be even more useful!
What is this Evasion Mode? It’s simple! Because the Thief is so fragile in its current state, it can’t really take many hits before it ends up laying in a gutter somewhere. How does F5 solve this? I’m glad you asked!!!
When in Evasion Mode, a Thief becomes very agile. Not only can the Thief dodge by rolling as normal, but now, every time a Thief jumps, he flips and evades attacks at the cost of initiative. How much initiative does a dodging jump cost? Well, only the most masterful of Thieves currently know, and they aren’t willing to share their secrets just yet.
But just imagine it! Being able to bound around an opponent, making him dizzy and annoyed. When he swings high, you roll under his strike! When he swings low, you jump over his attack!
I’ve also heard some rumors that every jump refills a little bit of endurance as well, but you should take that with one of the many grains of salt that will be flowing soon. In fact, a friend of a friend of an acquaintance of mine who claims to have seen one of the masters in action said that he even saw a Thief combo his dodge roll and dodge jump resulting in a second or two of Resistance and Stability so he could actually engage an opponent that placed an AoE on itself! Hard to believe, I know, but just imagine that!
Well, that’s all for now, folks! Happy Hunting! And make sure to get a super-sized keyboard. I’m sure I’ll have many more goodies for you later! :-D
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
I was refraining from being too negative on the decisions made be the development team. But I just had an epiphany, and it hit me. The decisions based around the Thief design are absolutely, mind-blowingly Stupid (with a capitol “S”) and beyond any sense of comprehension if balance or viability was the intention.
Why? Here’s a list of things that make the design a mess (no continuity)…
1. From the official description of the Thief on the Guild Wars 2 site…
“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”
2. Thieves are primarily a MELEE profession. The available ranged weapons are weak and have limited range.
3. Thieves have the LEAST amount of health available with little effect from armor.
4. Feline Grace was gutted with the June 23rd, 2015 patch, removing a significant capacity to dodge.
5. AoE’s are large with no way to counter other than dodging/evading or avoiding altogether.
6. Passive traits from other professions not only negate a Thief’s damage, but can also do damage and/or control the Thief from its own successful attacks.
7. The only way to guarantee avoiding damage without a dodge/evasion is to not get hit (running or hiding).
8. In order to do melee damage, the Thief must be in melee range, forcing the Thief to choose whether to do damage and receive damage or to take no damage by running away.
9. The Thief has no inherent speed advantage over any other professions, making the Thief reliant on certain weapons or utilities in order to run away successfully.
10. The Thief can attempt to hide in Stealth to avoid damage.
11. The Thief can trait to heal, remove damaging conditions, and mitigate damage while in Stealth.
12. The Thief can use more powerful or useful attacks only while in Stealth.
13. Other professions can completely remove and/or prevent the Thief from being in Stealth, completely negating any and all benefits from Stealth with absolutely no way to remove that effect.
14. The Thief cannot build to be powerful enough to eliminate a competent enemy quickly or build defensively enough in order to sustain a prolonged engagement against a competent opponent.
What does that mean? It means that the original concept of the Thief got lost somewhere, or it never had a great basis to begin with.
It also means that it has been handled with incompetence. Not that it is the work of any specific individual(s), but because it has not been handled as an “exceptional” entity. It is being handled just as though it were like every other profession, though the very concept is completely unique.
What is the summary of the above list? Thieves die too easily when they actually engage with full potential. And if they do not build for full damage, they are not effective. It is not a skill issue, it is a design issue.
Here are some basic things to consider…
1. Melee fighters WILL take damage. It doesn’t take skill to hit something close to you.
2. The only way to survive damage is to absorb it or evade it. The Thief does not have enough capability to do either to survive a prolonged battle.
3. Placing an AoE on yourself guarantees a big advantage over a Thief. It will either avoid you to stay alive or it WILL take damage that it cannot afford to take.
4. Revealing a Thief removes and and all sustainability from it. If the Thief had any previous conditions or just swapped to a melee set, it is in lots of trouble.
Now, in my personal opinion, as much as the Thief is reliant on Stealth (forced to do so by the development team), the core concept seems to have been based on acrobatics and agility. What does agility mean in this game? Dodges and evades. And not simply dodges and evades, but the ability to perform them fluidly and on demand. Does the Thief (or even the Daredevil) have this? No.
Check out this video from Ninja Gaiden. That is what truly opened my eyes to the flaws of the Thief design. Notice what is happening in that game. Anyone who has played it knows how fragile your character is. It only takes one slip to ruin your day. It is a VERY difficult game. And at first, you think the developers were absolute sadists. But after you play for a while, and after many, MANY failures, you learn something important…
Yes, your character is extremely fragile, but you have been given the tools and abilities to succeed!!!
The developers did not want you to die over and over and over. They wanted you to improve and get better. Because when you win, you have truly accomplished something. It was not a matter of luck or chance, it was pure skill. Just as in that video, the player became so skilled, he did not take any damage whatsoever.
Now, I understand that Guild Wars 2 is a multiplayer game. But the concepts remain. Victory or failure should be based on skill, not on lack of capability.
Imagine Ninja Gaiden if you only had 2/3 dodges and no blocking/countering ability. Imagine that game if you took damage every time you successfully struck the enemy. Would anyone be able to survive even the first level?
What am I saying? Simply that the Thief profession needs to be handled differently than any other profession. First of all, we need to get a clear understanding of what the Thief is. Is is an acrobatic fighter? If so, give it some special acrobatic capabilities (baseline). Is it really supposed to be hard to hit? Then give it lots of (fluid) dodges/evades (baseline). And for goodness sake, make it immune to passive defenses like Mirror of Anguish, Reaper’s Protection, or Retaliation.
Having a fragile profession is fine. Just as long as you give it (baseline) the tools and abilities to actually succeed. And I do mean in actual combat, not simply running away and capping points. Stop making it so difficult or even impossible to avoid damage. How can a Thief who relies on active defense defend against passive damage? It’s absolutely stupid!
If you want to treat other professions as special and balance them uniquely also, that’s great. I’m not against that. But the essence of the Thief is lost. And personally, I think it can be found somewhere in a game like Ninja Gaiden.
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
I’m sorry, but the F3 key and F4 key are already reserved for further additions. I would suggest starting with F5, but it may be used as permanent Shortbow mode in order to free up an extra weapon slot :-P
Ps. Just joking…. maybe ;-P
PPs. I like insta-kills! Maybe we can add a decapitation effect for the Sword? ?
Yes, Anet, pay close attention. THIS is how the Thief (and Daredevil) should truly be played…
You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.
There’s no arguing that needs to be done. Thieves are like the veterinarians of Guild Wars 2. They are there to put those fragile builds “to sleep” as painlessly as possible. Because if a build cannot survive a Thief in the current game, it is going to get brutally slaughtered when it goes against the other professions.
Thieves are like the first boss in Ninja Gaiden.
If you can’t survive against him, you’ve got no business playing the game any further. It only gets worse from there. And he’s your friend, he’s only trying to help.
I can manually turn, but as a Thief, I am running away a LOT. If I don’t, I’m dead :-P
So that makes it more difficult to keep the camera on the target for me.
And because of that, I have to zoom out to the max so I can keep track of the enemy, which means it’s difficult to see details that I need to see.
Not saying that it can’t be done. It’s just a skill that takes a lot of dedication to learn.
I guess I miss the target-lock-on/virtual cocpit cameras in flight-sims.
(Yes, I know “cocpit” is spelled incorrectly. But it’s better than “kittenpit” :-P )
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Just a QoL improvement. Have an option to lock the camera onto the target so we don’t have to manually turn the camera. And yes, if the target disappears, the camera loses lock.
Thank you! :-)
+1 for you, sir.
If nothing else, it’s motivating me to try and keep a more positive attitude going forward.
Hmm, this is starting to make the Thief look like the inspiration behind the movie Sucker Punch
Get all hyped up about how incredibly awesome and overpowered it is…
…then end up wanting a lobotomy just to be able to forget about the past so you can be happy.
But look at the bright side, the devs are just trying to set us free! :-D
No, the Thief does not need clones. We need more Thieves! In fact, we need an army of Thieves! And you, my friend, get to become the Prince of Thieves!
So, what is this great buff? How do you achieve dominance? It’s simple! Just one slight change to two of our skills.
Ambush:
Call in a fellow Thief
Thieves Guild:
Calls in two fellow Thieves
Sounds familiar, correct? Well, it is. They’re the same exact skills that we have now. What’s the difference? These are not simple cookie-cutter Thieves. These Thieves have watched your fighting skills. They are not merely pets, they are your direct apprentices. In fact, they admire you so much, they have made sure to follow in your footsteps in every way. Yes, these Thieves…
Dress and look exactly like you.
Use the same weapons that you use.
Use the same traits that you use.
Use the same utilities that you use.
So… where is this leading? Well, if you slot for Ambush and Thieves Guild, that will make 4 of you. Yes, Ninja Turtle style!
But wait, there’s more! You see, your apprentices also have apprentices of their own. If you slot for Ambush and Thieves Guild, they will also slot for Ambush and Thieves Guild. What does that mean? That means ANOTHER 9 Thieves to fight at your side!
Do I need to go on? Yes! Those 9 will bring another 27 of their apprentices with them!!! That’s a total of 40 Thieves… so far!!!
Umm, yes, I believe I should end this post here… or the math is going to make my head hurt!
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Thief Short Bow now casts Ice Storm
Hey, I’d be happy with Chill on Shortbow’s auto-attack… TIE: Shortbow
The Walking Teefs?
At least give us some undead biting power! We keep coming unless you cut off our heads! :-D
Maybe that’s what they wanted our elite to be: “that poor disabled guy”.
Apologies to the person who already posted this here, but it’s worth posting again!
Well, they could at least replace the Revealed icon with a Skull and Crossbones icon when it lasts for 30 seconds (-cough- Stealth Disruptor Trap -cough-)
rectification : Thief – dodge ….
Sounds more like a “rectumification” to me :-(
I’m a Thief. It’s my job to be delusional and impossibly optimistic! :-P
Hmm, you gave me a brilliant idea! Behold, I bring you the new Thief Elite!
I have finally discovered why the devs gave us the Staff. So we can hold ourselves up after being battered and bruised!
When HoT finally releases, our elite specialization is going to be renamed to “Knight Errant” and given a new appearance. We will be given some old, rusty armor and a mask that makes us look like we’re completely exhausted from years of “fighting the good fight.”
What will be our special mechanic? We break out into song, of course! And we will sing the anthem of being a Thief…
To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star
This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far
To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause
And I know if I’ll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I’m laid to my rest
And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star
Yes, it seems quite fitting. Especially the part about being covered with scars. Que sera, sera. Onward, my knightly brethren!!!
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Going back to my former F3 post, what about making a new a GM trait for Acrobatics as follows…
Be Like Water:
All incoming hits are glancing blows
According to the wiki, glancing blows deal only 50% of regular damage and lose any critical damage. That seems like something a very acrobatic Thief could cause.
All attacks from thief no longer trigger passive defenses like end pain, stun reverb, fear, etc…
THIS is the most important thing that can happen to the Thief, I believe. Of course, I’d also like the ability to punch through blocks and other invulnerabilities as well even if they are “active” defenses… at least in some manner (maybe inflict Weakness).
I’ve always heard that Sword/Pistol is great for random PvE content (not necessarily dungeons/fractals). The Sword has better cleave (more opponents hit) than the Dagger as well as disengage ability with Infiltrator’s Strike/Return. Pistol Whip is very lethal when you learn to land it.
One of the main advantages of using a Pistol offhand (with Dagger or Sword) is Headshot to Daze and Black Powder to Blind. When you engage a mob, drop a Black Powder or two on top of him, and just beat it down. It won’t be able to hit you until the Black Powder dissipates or you allow it to leave the AoE. Note that some mobs are immune or resistant to Blind, though.
The main way to survive as a Thief, though, is to not get hit. That means Blinding, Evading, Dodging, Interrupting, and ranged attacks. Learn how to not get hit. Then learn how to attack without getting hit.
Not quite, but I’m sure they could use the boost :-P
Just looking for more ways avoid damage :-)
Would it be too much to ask for an extra dodge or two if we play without armor? Pretty please?
Oh, and I’ll take an increased movement speed also. Thank you! :-D
Elite: “no quarter” – that trait in CS? Yeah. Same thing. Just gives it to your opponents.
Oh, I understand it now! There’s a reason it’s a Thief trait!
Thieves are supposed to give their enemies no quarter! Instead, Thieves were given no quarter by the devs! Well played, sirs, well played! :’-(
I confess I don’t know how the engine works. I do know that allies can see a “cloak/phantom” of a teammate. I guess it would just be one-step further than that.
I do find it interesting that boons/conditions/effects know who applied them to others, and use the giver’s stats for damage/buffs/etc. So I don’t think it would be too difficult for the system to keep track of who applied Reveal.
Maybe there could be two effects: Revealed and Revealing.
Revealed applies to the one being Revealed. (Receiver)
Revealing applies to the one who Revealed the other. (Giver)
That way, you could know you did Reveal someone. And for the game to make the stealthed player visible to you, the effects would have to match up.
Hmm, now, I’m getting complicated :-P
I don’t really think I would want to throw more fuel onto the flame.
It’s a pirate’s life, matey!
That’s our true role as Thieves.
Just don’t use the rum to fuel the fire! :-P
Ps. There won’t really ever be a true perma-stealth thief except for condition builds. And even those are limited in stealth-stacking unless they build specifically for stealth-stacking, and those are easy to force a self-Reveal.
As for any non-condi Thief, even if they stack an hour of Stealth on themselves, the moment the throw a Backstab, it’s all gone :-P
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Full Banker
Heehee…
Oops! :-P
Well, I wish I could cash in like they do! :-D
Ah, I didn’t even see this thread when I made my own.
I like this much better than what is currently implemented.
I feel too exposed when I fight an engi that I know is trying to Reveal me.
Though I would like to be able to have more than 5 stacks of Stealth in this case. The longest I’ve ever managed to stack is 19-20 seconds. If I could go higher, I may be able to beat Stealth Traps! :-D
I think this is one of the most vital questions that needs to be answered…
What is the purpose of a Glass Cannon?
Honestly, I don’t understand. The Thief seems to be designed for it, but for what reason?
We can agree on this, correct? That a Glass Cannon is meant to be a very fragile build, but with very powerful attacks. If that’s true, then what should a Glass Cannon be useful for?
If a Glass Cannon cannot be hit hard enough to be a threat to anything other than another Glass Cannon, then what’s the point?
I hear all the time that it is the Thief’s own fault that it cannot go head-to-head with current meta builds. Because no one would be foolish enough to run a build that the Thief can easily kill. So the Thief shaped the meta into Thief-proof builds. But that logic doesn’t make sense to me. If a Thief in its current state could kill such builds, then EVERY other profession would make absolute toast of them as well. Yeah, I get it, the Thief is mobile… so what? Are these fragile builds trying to avoid fights so only a Thief could catch them? No, they are heading straight into the fray where everyone can kill them!
So again, what purpose does a Glass Cannon serve? Shouldn’t they have a pretty decent shot breaking through even the toughest of defenses because they have such powerful attacks? Shouldn’t they be able to survive at least a few more shots from full Bunker builds than they do from more offensive builds?
Think of it in terms of Zelda/Minecraft’s hearts.
Health = Hearts
Power = Loss of Hearts per hit
Build / Health /Power
Glass Cannon : 1 / 1.75
Balanced : 2 / 1.25
Full Bunker : 3 / .75
Don’t get too caught up in the specific numbers, but that is just a general concept. Right now, it feel like a Glass Cannon Thief doesn’t have enough power for the lack of survivability. And trying to go to the other extreme, trying to Bunker without stealthing (in Conquest) is making an even worse tradeoff.
I understand it’s not all about direct damage output or healthpool, but even still, there doesn’t seem to be a good balance.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideal ratios?
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Right now, when a Thief is Revealed, it is visible to EVERYONE.
However, I would suggest this change…
Stealth and Revealed can coexist.
A Thief may apply Stealth to itself.
When another player uses a skill to Reveal a Thief, the Thief becomes visible ONLY to that player.
The Thief, even though Revealed to that player, still remains invisible to everyone until the Stealth duration ends. If the Stealth duration lasts longer than the Revealed duration, the Thief will then become invisible again to the player who Revealed it.
Whether or not you want to apply this to self-Revealing from Thief attacks (only becoming visible to the struck target) is another discussion to be had.
Thoughts?
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Hmm, maybe that’s why I feel like I’m stealthed for so little time? Stupid bug! :-(
We need two buffs.
I would put this as minor baseline in cs..
Thiefs Insight: All attacks no longer trigger passive defensive abilities.
And the other as minor baseline in SA.
Sneaky thief: Stealth abilities remove reveal from all non self inflicted reveal debuffs.
These two buffs would fix thief imo. You could also add more reveal debuffs to other classes for more counter play…
Umm, excuse me please, but I believe you are lost.
This is the “OP Buff” thread, not the “Realistic, this should actually happen” thread! ;-P
Just a thought. What if the Thief healed when successfully breaking a stun?
Again, not just using a stunbreaker, but actually breaking out of a stun.
Too overpowered? Or a good step toward sustain?
:|
Trait: Thief’s Rage
Function: Every attack applies 2-3 stacks of 15 seconds burning. Every targetable skill also causes 2-3 stacks of 15 seconds burning. (No ICDs)(Stick this into w/e trait line and however many times across different trait lines as you wish.)
That would be my suggestion for an OP buff/gift.
I like it, but it clearly does not resonate with the Thief profession. I think this would be more appropriate….
Thief’s Retribution
Every attack opens a wound causing Bleeding for 3 seconds.
Whenever the target is Bleeding, with the next attack, the Thief applies a generous dose of salt (made from its own tears) to the wound.
The Bleeding stops, but Burning from the salt is applied for 60 seconds.
Also, a non-stacking Packet of Salt is added to the target’s inventory. If there is no available space in the target’s inventory, then an item in its inventory will be stolen to make room for the Packet of Salt.
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Exactly the reason for the new trait! ;-D
Might as well call the profession the “MineField”.
Haha, I dueled another trapper Thief the other day in WvW for over an hour (multiple duels, that is). But we easily went 5-10 minutes every duel laying Needle Traps and Caltrops everywhere. It started to seem useless after he traited Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop, though! :-P
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Thief is a class where the skilled player can choose to only engage in favorable conditions, and disengage from all unfavorable ones. Is that balanced? Maybe that is what the thief flavor is supposed to be but in terms of game balance that is NOT fun to play against. If we are to become reasonable fighters, we’re going to have to give up something, and that something will probably have to be our ridiculous mobility.
As it stand, any good thief can basically escape any situation he finds himself in, provided he does not commit anything to that fight. The ability to decide any terms of engagement, whether on an enemy or by an enemy on the thief, is an incredibly powerful ability. Yes thief cannot fight worth kitten right now, but they can indeed run like hell.
I believe each of those quotes holds two very important points, but I feel the first ends with something not completely accurate.
First, I would say that the ability to choose the terms of engagement and disengagement (and even avoidance) is the heart and soul of what it means to be a Thief. To lose that is to lose the very essence of the profession. The capability is sometimes due to stealth, other times mobility. It really depends on the weapon set/build. But it is most important to not lose that.
Secondly, it’s true the Thief can’t hold its own in a fight right now. It’s glass, but it’s not a cannon. And I believe that’s where the inaccuracy comes. I think the Thief has already given up too much fighting capability for the mobility it has. Even if it was overpowered at one time, the pendulum has shifted to the other extreme. So I don’t believe that is a need to give anything up for at least a decent upgrade to sustainability.
I understand it’s no fun when you feel helpless because you cannot see your opponent, or even if you can see him, but you just cannot get close enough to hit him. But it’s also no fun at all to know that even if you build to full damage potential and get the drop on your foe, scoring hit after hit, you’re most likely not going to break though his defenses enough before he recovers or gets one solid blow in that will leave you on the ground. And if you don’t build for full damage, your defenses still won’t be strong enough to survive a battle of attrition.
By no means am I a great Thief. But I’ve attempted to run without stealth. I’ve tried full power builds, I’ve tried full crit builds, I’ve tried more balanced builds. I’ve run with a utility bar with 4 stunbreaks and 4 condi-removals. On glass builds, I don’t need that many stunbreaks because I’ll already be dead after one stun or maybe two. On more sustainable builds, I don’t have enough condi-removal to be able to maintain pressure, especially against certain builds.
When my own stuns affect me, when I catch on fire because I’m being blocked, when I take damage because my attack actually hit like it was supposed to, when I catch someone off guard and nearly down them, then they pop an invulnerability and barrage me with no fear for what seems like an eternity… well, that’s no fun either. As a Thief, I am not rewarded enough when I do attack successfully, I am not rewarded enough when I am successful at evading, and I am even punished when I do apply pressure like I’m supposed to! Who thought of that?
Honestly, the trait that best describes the style a Thief should live by is “No Quarter.” Yet when we attack aggressively, we are punished for it, and we don’t have the means to survive. A melee class with little health and toughness, but not enough punch. We are like a glass pitcher fighting a stone. It doesn’t matter if the stone hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it’s going to be bad for the pitcher.
What can fix the Thief? I don’t really know. But I do know that it needs buffs, not nerfs. Even if its the ability to take a few more hits without a decrease in our damage output. Playing a game like Ninja Gaiden can teach you that just one or two hits can mean the difference between success and game over. But I think one issue is that people try to balance the Thief like they would every other profession. But it is unique, so it doesn’t work well. It needs to have its own rules. Some things may seem crazy in theory (both good and bad), but they may work out perfectly.
(edited by Kageseigi.2150)
Yes, it’s time to buff the Thief into the demi-god mode!
Today’s buff is suited for those who call themselves trappers.
Lay a Tripwire trap on dodge that knocks enemies down for 1 second. No cooldown.
The solution to this is simple. Allow the Thief to steal the Engineer’s gyro! :-D
No more gunk, YAY!!!
Now that is quite convenient! Thank you! :-)
Oh, I meant for the game to actually create a log file to view offline. Unless you mean it already does, haha!
I created a new chat tab and tried to customize it, but I didn’t see anything about saving logs.
Hopefully, I did just miss it :-P
Thank you!
This is just a request. I’d love for the game to have the option to create logs of chats (conversation, combat damages, etc.). Also, the ability to review all of the information of your last PvP match (even after you’re back in the lobby) would be great… including all of your death reports (the ones that list what skills killed you).
There may be something like this already, but I’m just missing it.
Anyway, thanks! :-D
Hahaha, duly noted, thank you! :-D
Ah, thanks a lot! :-D