Guild Wars 2

I’ve heard tails of players whispering to enemies in WvW. Is that possible? If so, how do you do it?

I’ve met a few foes where we’ve ended up dueling and having a dance party afterwards. I’d kind of like to be able to send them a few friendly greetings. And yes, I may be a Thief, but I’m not a villain or trash-talker :-P

Thanks! :-D

Sure, stealth can be fun to troll with. The ninja-esque stature is also enjoyable.

But for me, what really does it is the initiative system. Though it’s not perfect, I love to be able to use the skills that I want to when I wish to. Why should I only be able to do a Headshot one time every 5 seconds? Or a Heartseeker every 10 seconds?

What about you?

Cygnus.6903:

No and no. Stealth detection just means he ports away and resets. Stun is even worse, one stunbreak and he’s gone. And good luck stunning something you can’t see, ever.

Completely toxic and, if played well (which is ridiculously easy), there is no counterplay.

How many stun breaks does a trapper build carry? If he’s running Acro, then he’s given up damage or sustainability. When your trap reveals him, stun him. If he is able to port out, then he has prepared beforehand as a smart Thief should.

Killing a player then watching him revive and come back to fight is just another version of “resetting.” The same result is achieved.

Taking away his stealth is the counterplay. Without it, his wisest move is to disengage. If he stays, kill him. If he runs away, either maintain pressure or go in the opposite direction and find a more favorable situation (allies, friendly AI, inside a gate, etc.). Or go bring your Elementalist with Diamond Skin so you can just laugh at the Thief all day long.

Because I’m in a rush for now, I’ll give you two things that can kill a trapper Thief.

1. Stealth Trap
2. Stun

commandersheepard.6490:

My story:
Long story short, PVPing against a guardian. Steal -> C&D, 1, 2, 4, 1, 1, 1 = Blocked! Blocked! Blocked! Blocked! Blocked! Get hit once and take 1/3 of my HP. Well this is useless. Why play a class that is suppose to do a ton of damage when I can’t even do get a hit in?

This is why I’m of the strong belief that, in its current state, a Thief should be able to punch through any defense save for dodging and evasions. We should be the masters of finding and exploiting weaknesses. After all, a helmet won’t help you if I stab you in the eye.

Zaerah.1630:

Also why even buff shortbow so much, it already does what it’s supposed to do and is probably one of the last things on thief that needs to be changed.

It’s perfectly fine…..if you’re looking to run away.

I could literally say the same thing about the Thief as a whole. Why buff it? It already does what it’s supposed to do. After all, it was a Thief who won MVP!

Besides, that’s why I am putting options in the listings. Don’t want three Blast Finishers? That’s why it was not the only thing mentioned. That’s also why I did not leave Cluster Bomb as a self-comboing skill.

One of the last things I want is to get stuck in a fight with my Shortbow out for 10 seconds. Little damage, no access to stealth, and nothing really to strike fear into my opponent. It gets used to run away, poison downed foes, and to blast. There is definitely room for improvement to make it a “combat” weapon, even if only as a control/support weapon.

For some builds you can look at (especially meta builds), you can go to this site…
http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

As for a trapper build, you’re going to use Runes of the Trapper which only exist in PvE and WvW. They stealth you when you lay a trap. I use Needle Trap, Ambush, and Shadow Refuge in my utility bar. I have the traits Trapper’s Respite and Deadly Trapper in the Deadly Arts traitline. The Shadow Arts traitline is also recommended.

Dagger/Pistol allows you to stealth on demand by using Black Powder, then Heartseeker through the Smoke Field it leaves. You can actually Heartseeker up to 4 times through the Smoke Field if you practice. You’ll have to have no selected target and also point the camera straight down to shorten the leaps.

Shortbow #5 is what gives you the most mobility. It’s a utility weapon, so don’t rely on it to do enough damage.

Also, if you wish to stay permanently stealthed as well as do damage, you’re going to have to rely on traps, Caltrops, and other “attacks” that don’t do direct damage. For instance, Deadly Arts causes your Steal to poison the enemy. Just don’t use the trait Mug or stealing will Reveal you. The Trickery traitline has Bewildering Ambush which causes Steal to give the enemy Confusion. Also in Trickery, the Uncatchable trait lays a smaller version of Caltrops when the Thief dodge rolls. They cause Bleeding, but no direct damage, so it will not Reveal you.

Just know that doing damage while perma-stealthed is not easy, nor is it very effective. It really does rely on Condition Damage. But you’ll probably have better success with direct Power/Critical damage, though you won’t be able to maintain Stealth indefinitely.

The key to thieving is to really understand when to do what. Also when to press on with the attack and when to run away. It just takes practice. Good luck! :-D

I’ve been running a Dire condi-trapper build, and have had mixed success.

I’m running DA/SA/T with Hide in Shadows (Trapper’s Respite), Needle Trap, Ambush, and Shadow Refuge. D/P with SB.

Are those utilities the best for stealth uptime along with damage? If so, what’s the best skill rotation to keep myself stealthed?

Should I give up stealth in order to use weapon skills and interrupts (Pressure Striking)?

Or is a power build the way to go with Trapper runes? Thanks! :-D

100% crit chance plus 10% damage from stealth is even better ;-)

Especially if you don’t trait into Critical Strikes… or choose to take No Quarter instead.

EDIT: Yeah, not looking to bring more power creep. Just trying to add more benefit to attacks other than specific Stealth Attacks.

PopeUrban.2578:

I think your suggestions overtune it, as it’s supposed to be a largely utility weapon so upping the utility rather than damage seems the better way to go.

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, that’s why I tried to stay away from adding damage to the skills. I believe I only extended the Poison duration for Choking Gas and replaced instant Bleeding with Burning from a Fire Field on Cluster Bomb. Everything else is utility, I believe.

Yes, decrease the damage of Backstab by 10%.
In return, increase the damage of ALL attacks from stealth by 10%… including Backstab.

I feel like there’s not much benefit to using anything other than the specific Stealth Attacks of the weapon sets when in stealth. Why not make them all more useful?

Ok, if not increase the damage, then why not make them unblockable when in stealth? Evasions and dodges are fine, but why should anyone be able to block something they can’t see?

Introducing a new series, similar to TEEF’s State of the Thief, on how we can improve the Thief one weapon (set) at a time. Please give thoughts, suggestions, and your own ideas. I give you the…

Thief Improvement Experiment

Shortbow #1 – Trick Shot:

I was thinking of adding Bleeding similar to the Pistol’s auto-attack, but we already have that on Detonate/Cluster Bomb. Likewise, because of the nerf to Choking Gas, I had also thought of adding Poison to keep healing reduced. We have Cripple and Blind on other skills. What’s left? Fire and Ice. While I love the idea of a flaming arrow (especially with Burning being so powerful right now), I think I like the thought of having a sustained method of hindering the enemy even more.

1 second per hit: Chill

There would be no cooldown. If the arrow bounces, then that gives the Thief more bang for its buck. Remember, this is not adding damage to the attack, it is only giving more utility.

Shortbow #2 – Cluster Bomb/Detonate Cluster:

For goodness sake, speed up the projectile! The lack of speed makes it difficult to get a combo off unless you aim at your feet. When the projectile does hit the ground and explode, it should leave a Fire Field that burns anyone who enters it.

2 seconds: Fire Field
2 seconds: Burning
2 pulses

A Combo Field and a Blast Finish in one? Well, there are three different ways to go about that…

A. Allow the skill to combo with itself.
B. Force the Blast Finisher to take effect before the Combo Field.
C. Move the Blast Finisher from Cluster Bomb to Detonate Cluster.

If option C is taken, you could create the Blast Finisher where the detonation takes place, or you could have three separate Blast Finishers depending where the projectiles fall.

Shortbow #3 – Disabling Shot:

There are a few things with this skill. It is a defensive skill to evade and create distance. I would suggest to make it an instant cast. Add a 1/4 seconds daze to it just as Pistol’s Headshot has. Also make sure the evasion frame cover the entire animation.

2 seconds: Cripple
1/4 second: Daze

Shortbow #4 – Choking Gas:

Extend the duration of applied Poison to 4 seconds. If someone continues to stand in it, they deserve it. The only ones who will are those who are downed, and that’s really the purpose of this skill. Also remove the direct damage so it will no longer Reveal a Thief.

4 seconds: Poison Field
4 seconds: Poison
4 pulses

Shortbow #5 – Infiltrator’s Arrow:

Well, this is the big one, eh? It already excels at what it does, but there’s always room for improvement. First of all, why not drop the Initiative cost down to 5? Secondly, add a small arc to the flight of the projectile (without increasing the travel time) so it won’t collide with small hills or obstructions. Also, FIX THE PATHFINDING ERRORS!!!

On top of that, let’s see if we can increase the utility a bit. What about these options?

A: Increase the radius to blind foes where the projectile lands.
B: Add a 1 second Blind to enemies close to the Thief where the projectile originates.
C: Create a 1 second Smoke Screen in the middle of the projectile’s path that blocks other projectiles.
D: Blind all enemies that are within the projectile’s path for 1 second.

Shortbow Stealth Attack – Surprise Shot:

Really? An Immobilize is all it has? You’re going to reveal me for 3-4 seconds for a 2 second Immobilize? That’s not even long enough to get a Cluster Bomb there at range. No, we need something more powerful. Yes, something like what happens when a ragdoll takes an arrow to the knee. Oh yeah, let’s steal their lunch money also!

Launch distance: 350
5 seconds: Cripple
5 seconds: Weakness
5 seconds: 5 stacks of Vulnerability
Steal one boon

Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms?

According to the official Thief description:

“Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.”

Umm, what exactly is so agile and acrobatic about Thieves compared to any other profession?

The default Thief has the exact same speed as any other profession.
The default Thief has the exact same rate of dodging as any other profession.
The default Thief takes the exact same damage from getting struck as any other profession (based on armor).
The default Thief is exactly as visible and hittable as any other profession.

The only thing I’m aware of that the default Thief has compared to others that even comes close to meeting that definition is Steal’s shadowstep. Everything else must be traited for or relies on specific weapons or utilities…. that includes the ability to stealth.

Even our Acrobatics traitline doesn’t really help avoid getting hit directly, especially compared to pre-patch Acrobatics. Now, in order to gain more dodges, we are required to evade or heal. Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are great, but that’s simply canceling out effects, not avoiding damage directly.

Why not give the default Thief some advantages over others? Between a 10-25% movement increase. 50-100% base Endurance regeneration.

In other words, GIVE THE THIEF SURVIVABILITY WITHOUT STEALTH. You know… since they are going to be visible 90% of the time, especially with all of the revealing skills coming.

Ps. This has nothing to do with Daredevil. This is all about the (baseline) Thief as a profession.

Babylon.8972:

Reveal dont lock your utilities and weapon skills, it just stop your camping in stealth for 6 seconds. While you are revealed, spam blind, shadowstep away etc.

No, it just makes many Thief utilities worthless, and they go on long cooldowns if used. It also locks the meta Thief out of its most powerful attack. It also removes any sustain that the arguably squishiest profession in the game has.

You are also implying that Thieves camp around in stealth for long periods of time for fun. They don’t. If they sit around in stealth, it’s to avoid taking damage or to recover from grave conditions.

You are also assuming that the would-be-stealthing Thief has other means of delaying death at that moment. Blinding requires initiative or a one-use utility, and only lasts one hit, not 6 seconds. Did you stop to think that that may be why the Thief was trying to stealth in the first place? Because they are out of initiative? It’s not like they can just switch weapons and refill their initiative pool.

If you want to be able to knock a Thief out of stealth, that’s one thing. But to remove its ability to stealth for several seconds at a time, that’s completely overboard. It’s the devs that caused the Thief to be so reliant on stealth, not the players. And it’s the devs that are making it worse.

It’s as though they got the Thief gravely addicted to a drug. Then, not only are they taking away the drug, causing a painful withdrawal, but they decided to take away the Thief’s food also.

Zero Day.2594:

Also, the Gu*a*di*a*n has two *a*’s – So it should be feared twice more.

Ah, you mean the GODian??? :-(

I suppose I can take a stab at it…

“Experts at stealthing and being surprised revealed, thieves can live in the shadows of other professions, vanish into thin air when rage quitting after being downed in one hit, or steal random junk from their opponents and use them as distractions. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic pacifist style known as “running away,” which can make them very hard to hit."

Honestly, I’m reminded of the movie “The Jerk” in which Steve Martin describes what prizes a customer can win from a carnival game. Just replace the question with, “What can I win against?” And yes, the Chiclets = Thieves…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6DtzRUF5U

From the official site…
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

“Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit. "

In order to achieve a more accurate accounting of the Thief profession (and to avoid any false advertising lawsuits), what would your new description be?

Hey, what’s stopping this new defensive mode from halving (or even negating) condition damage at the cost of Endurance?

1 tick of each condition for 10 Endurance

After all, Thieves have been building an immunity to such conditions over years of training. Most specifically, the deadly Iocane Powder!

Here we are, Ladies and Gentlemen! It is that time in the game’s life cycle where it has become necessary! If the F3 button wasn’t enough for you, I’m throwing in the kitchen sink with this one! Yes! The ultimate new toy… F4!!!

F4? What does it do?
I’m glad you asked!

You see, with all of the new skills and features that other professions have been getting recently having to do with Stealth and Reveal, it seems like the time of the Thief is drawing to a close. But don’t worry, folks, it’s just part of the show!

What is actually happening is the creation of a new aspect within the game. It’s called the Shadow Realm. What is that? It’s the place where players enter when they gain Stealth. What’s the difference between the new Shadow Realm and being stealthed today? For one, when you are in the Shadow Realm, you can see everyone else who is also in the Shadow Realm. And just as with normal Stealth, you can also see those who are not in the Shadow Realm, though they cannot see you.

Why is this a wonderful thing? Because the Thief is the only profession that is receiving the F4 mode. It actually toggles Stealth on and off. No more initiative or utilities required!

Yes, Revealed works the same as before, but because the Thief can literally stay stealthed indefinitely, it will not be as much of an issue. That is also why other professions are receiving methods to enter Stealth and to Reveal those who are within it, because the Thief would be completely overpowered if that were not the case.

But do not worry! The Thief will not be completely at risk against these new devices, for the Thief will also be able to detect which players possess the ability to Reveal others.

Be of good cheer, my friends! This will completely shift the balance of power in the Thief’s favor! :-D

Daniel Handler.4816:

The counter play is destroy the drone.

So, the counter to the opponent’s Queen is to take their King? ;-P

LunarNacht.8913:

How about you request more options for none stealth builds instead?

You are talking about prayer requests to God, right? I think He’s the only one around this place that is actually taking requests.

The main problem with being locked out of stealth is that it is the main method to remove conditions, and even it is slow. The issue isn’t necessarily the inability to hide, but it’s that an entire traitline is completely nullified. Dagger/Pistol is based on the ability to stealth in order to gain those benefits. Not to mention that Backstab requires stealth.

If Thieves were still able to gain benefits of Shadow Arts even without stealthing, there probably wouldn’t be too much of an issue. But as it stands, a bad design choice makes Thieves too dependent on at least entering stealth just to stay alive.

Or at least add a distinctive sound effect and Exclamation Mark icon over characters’ heads when we get revealed. Something like this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNJ1B_2b17s

Hey, it could happen! ;-D

Yes, that’s right! Another fancy “F” button to play with! Only this time, it can actually save your life!

Imagine yourself about to engage a very strong opponent. In the past, you know you’re just too fragile to go against him. But not anymore! Your Thief has been upgraded with the state-of-the art feature known as the F3 button!

What does it do? I’m glad you asked!

When F3 is set to active, the following occurs:
Every attack that hits you will be a “glancing” strike at the cost of 10 Endurance to yourself.

Why is the Thief able to take twice as much damage as usual? Well, it’s not. But using the Thief’s natural dexterity and agility, it can move and position itself in order to cause the foe’s strikes to “glance” off its armor, so it will take twice as many hits to do as much damage as it normally would.

Why would you want this to be a toggle? For several reasons. First of all, you may not want to lose endurance when hit, especially if it’s a weak attack. Secondly, there may be balancing issues to consider. Since it is a defensive mode, there are those (AKA: other professions) who may wish to reduce the defensive Thief’s outgoing damage (between 10-25%) or perhaps add 1 extra initiative to the cost of skills. Or, you could even make it a toggle between Offense and Defense in which the offensive mode would grant bonuses to attack. Either way, it’s just another imagining to add depth and viability to the Thief.

Thoughts?

This isn’t about Anet’s vision (or lack thereof) for the Thief profession? What do you as a player want?

I can see the Thief going in several directions. But I can also see it not straying too far from what it is now…

I don’t mind being glass. I don’t mind it at all. The issue I have is even when I’m full glass, I still don’t seem to have enough damage output do the job. At least from a sPvP perspective.

What is the purpose of a Glass Cannon if the cannon cannot penetrate defenses effectively?

Personally, I would love to have a deadly assassin type of role. If I see you and you don’t see me, and I attack quickly and efficiently, then you are dead. But if you see me, I make a mistake, or you just get lucky, I’m in a world of trouble. Again, I don’t mind getting killed in one shot… as long as I can kill in one shot also.

Honestly, a melee profession with 11k health, little damage mitigation, no inherent speed or evasive advantages, and not enough power to engage anything 1 on 1 other than fellow Thieves? Who even thought of that???

Auldon.1972:

Thief has always been in the meta and even when nerfed they still see the most love.

Wow, if this is love, I think I want a divorce! :-P

Well, at least we’re the best at running away… even if we can’t do anything else without help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTJ8iZr7ro

Well, ok, maybe not remove it. But give it some competition. Perhaps a trait that causes every shadowstep (mechanic, not utility) to remove a condition (or an extra condition).

Dagger/Pistol: Shadow Shot
Pistol/Dagger: Shadow Strike
Sword/X: Infiltrator’s Strike and Infiltrator’s Return
Shortbow: Infiltrator’s Arrow
Harpoon Gun: Ink Shot/Smoke Trail

Steal
Shadowstep and Shadow Return
Infiltrator’s Signet
(Shadow Trap’s) Destroy Trap/Shadow Pursuit

Yes, Shadow’s Embrace would still be needed for a set like Dagger/Dagger or Pistol/Pistol. Though I’d be all for replacing Death Blossom with a shadowstepping skill.

The reasoning is that as a master of shadows, when you move through the shadow realm, the shadow’s nature cleanses you.

I’m assuming such a trait would be placed in the Shadow Art’s line, though it wouldn’t be required.

After all, as a profession with only 11k health pool, there needs to be very easy access to condition removal in order to survive more than a few seconds. Stealth isn’t always accessible when you need it the most. Being able to cleanse immediately with initiative(and combat)-based skills would be very beneficial. Especially if things turn bad, Shortbow #5 will get you out of the battle and also cleanse you.

Karl McLain.5604:

When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.

This is my personal opinion, and it is not directed at any person in general. Also, I was never really a user of Ricochet.

That seems like a pretty poor standard. Yes, I understand the need for a standard in order to begin establishing any system or change, but that is only for a beginning. In order to achieve balance, everything must be evaluated for its own merit. Things should not be added/cut/buffed/nerfed because of a standard, it should only happen because it achieves balance.

Right now, balance does not exist. The chosen standard did not accomplish its objective. It was a bad decision to go that route, but that’s not the main problem. The true problem is Anet seems to be making a whole lot of bad decisions.

Ships can be righted, but it takes a different way of thinking. It also takes courage to acknowledge previous mistakes and accept responsibility. Honestly, I’m tired of politics and refusal to accept responsibility in every part of the world today. I just want somebody to stand up and HONESTLY say, “Hey, we made a mistake. We apologize. While the decisions we made were done so with the best of intentions, they were clearly wrong. We will now work to fix the problems the correct way. Thank you for your patience.”

There’s a big community here willing to help and make the game better. Please use it liberally… for every game mode, every profession, and every playstyle.

Thank you both! I guess I’m mainly thinking of being able to stealth from S/P to gain the benefits of Shadow Arts without having to sacrifice utilities or another traitline. To give it something to compete with D/P. The Pistol Whip is the icing on the cake… the poor/sword man’s Backstab.

If Infiltrator’s Strike were to be made into a Leap Finisher, would Sword/Pistol become worth choosing for sPvP?

Pistol Whip may be a lot easier to pull off from stealth.

Oops, I suppose I didn’t quite make my reasoning clear enough. This thought assumes that a Thief is going to perform ONLY the “role” of decap and +1. Meaning he will never engage in a fair fight. He will ONLY move to empty nodes or fight when outnumbering the enemy.

The current meta build isn’t full damage or sustain. It is listed as using Shadowstep, Shadow Refuge, and Blinding Powder. All of those are either for utility or sustain. It also uses Shadow Arts instead of Critical Strikes which is also for sustain. But the supposed “role” of decap/+1 requires no sustain. It is all about avoiding damage.

To improve the +1 ability, it seems that Critical Strikes with the Signets of Power trait along with at least three signets should be taken. Or to be able to “ambush-defend” a node, a signet/trapper build with at least Shadow Trap and the Deadly Trapper trait could be used to gain the most damage.

As for a sustain build, your +1 abilities would be mainly to control the enemy and draw focus away from your teammate instead of downing them. For nodes, you could actually attempt to hold them temporarily. If using a Sword build, you’ll have some teleports to help evade inside a node without having to go into stealth.

And yes, this is mainly for Conquest, seeing that it is where the decap/+1 “role” comes into play. WvW is a completely different animal, thank goodness! :-D

Again, it’s to PURELY (de)cap and +1. There should be no combat or activity outside of those. It’s not about killing anyone or everyone, it’s about scoring points on the scoreboard.

Ps. This is looking at it through a pure decap/+1 perspective and philosophy. I don’t like it at all, but I’m trying to figure out the reasoning of not building for an extreme. This “role” is all about mobility and assistance. Mobility is not hindered in the least by a Sustain build. And a full Glass build will not die if combat is chosen/avoided successfully.

Just curious, if there are those who are truly dedicated to “+1 and decap” duties, why not just go all out? Why not choose either full Glass Canon or full Sustain builds?

If you are only decapping (running away if an enemy is even sighted) and entering into a +1 fray using hit-and-run tactics, why do you even need Shadow Arts? Why not run DA/CS/Trickery to get the most dps possible? Why not use a signet/trapper build to have enough damage potential to instantly down a capper if you choose to do so?

Or, if you are only running around (de)capping points and +1ing, why not go for full sustainability instead of damage? Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power, etc. At least you can stay on point a bit longer and contest it in a 1v1. If you are going to +1, then you can still use your control abilities (stun, daze, immobilize, cripple). Plus, you may be able to last long enough in a battle to resurrect an ally without melting.

The current meta Thief seems like it’s building to sustain situations it shouldn’t be in, but also building for damage that it doesn’t have many opportunities to apply (or, at least, not efficiently).

Thoughts?

Ah, I’ve only seen the previews! I’ll have to check it out! Thanks!

Haha, but I always enjoyed watching Kelly’s Heroes! :-D

Thinking about the current state of the Thief, I cannot help but remember the classic match-up between the good guys of the Allies (Thieves) and the evil Axis (other professions). Yes, I give you the Sherman vs. the Tiger.

Sure, we as Thieves can run circles around the others, but it takes three of us to take one of them out.

And talk about a bad case of Cannon Envy!!!

I simply find it odd that a full Glass Cannon build cannot reliably engage anyone other than another full Glass Cannon even with advantages such as invisibility and mobility. It seems to defeat the entire purpose of building as a Glass Cannon in the first place.

The main issue is that the Thief’s choices are limited to Glass, Full Glass, or Thicker Glass. It wouldn’t be so bad if the Cannon could actually pack a relevant punch in proportion with the glassiness… without having to rely on trapper/signet builds.

Krysard.1364:

Also, you dont fight in order to win a node, but in order to survive, so kite and detrtition gameplay are more used than in a normal fight

This. The current Thief in Conquest is like an early Arya Stark. Sure, you have a pointy sword with which to poke the random fat kid who isn’t paying attention, but you’d be a lot better off hiding or running away while screaming like a little girl.

Tuomir.1830:

Hmmh, I’ve done backstabs up to 17k, but that’s with a full trap setup, zerker stats and scholar runes. In other words, if you don’t kill your enemy within the next few seconds of the traps going off, you’re dead.

I’ve been running a signet/trapper build in PvP. Glassy as can be, but can be intense. I landed a 17.8k backstab on another Thief.

I usually run a more sustainable build, but I though I’d give this overblown “decap and +1 role” thing a try. So I make it a point to stay away from EVERYONE on my way between points… yippie, such fun! /sarcasm

So I (de)cap a point, set Shadow Trap, then go to the next point. If I see my trap triggered, I activate Assassin’s Signet and Shadow Pursuit, then lay my Tripwire on top of them. (Thank you fellow trapper thieves for the concept!)

I did run Needle Trap instead of Assassin’s Signet, but it takes extra time, and also gives the enemy more time to react. I was using Scholar Runes, but changed to Vamp Runes so I could actually have a chance at surviving if things went South.

Wasn’t too useful in Stronghold, though, haha! :-P

I’m curious to know if Sigil of Impact’s 10% damage bonus applies to a strike that causes Stun.

For example, if I apply Basilisk Venom with a Backstab, will the sigil’s bonus apply to that Backstab? Or will it only apply to attacks after that?

I’m running Tripwire to get the Knockdown, but I didn’t know if it was necessary if I run Basilisk Venom also.

By the way, to get the Backstab’s (attack from behind) bonus on a Knockdowned target, do I have to position myself behind the feet of the target (the location behind it if it were still standing)? Or does it matter?

Thanks! :-)

Fenda.1398:

You guys found a possible loading screen more annoying than the fact that the trap often if not most of the time ens up porting you into the next pebble on the road or not at all because of serious pathing issues? Thats disheartening because now i feel like i´m the only one having problems with this. In addition to your suggestions this skill should work like a teleport. Make it a personal, one-way one-time portal. At least it would work consistently this way. I lost count of how many times i endured the lengthy cast of the return only to find myself not moving a single inch or moving only a fracture of the distance.

Regarding Withdraw, RfI, FS, Disabling Shot: You didnt address the problem that skills like these need to take priority over any other currently ongoing skill or animation. When i am immobilized i need to break it asap ond shouldnt have to wait for a non existing animation to finish since immobilize stops them. When i see a heavy blow coming i want to use FS or Disabling Shot, but those simply won’t activate in time due to animation restrictions. RfI shares the same problems like Withdraw.

Agreed with both points.

Shadow Trap:
Make it the Thief’s version of a private portal. Wherever you laid it, that’s where you will return to unless triggered. If triggered, you will always teleport to the target. If it was triggered, I wouldn’t even mind adding another return option so you could teleport to the target’s location, kitten the situation, then optionally return to the location you just teleported from if things were too much for you to handle (like in the middle of an enemy zerg).

Signet of Shadows:
When activated, instantly remove the Revealed debuff. If you wanted to add stealth also, then you could do so.

Infiltrator’s Strike:
I like the idea of a leap finisher, but why not have it on the Strike instead of the return? Just treat it like Black Powder + Heartseeker + Steal. Apply Stealth after the strike so you don’t get auto-Revealed just as it does with Heartseeker. That places you in perfect position for a Tactical Strike. It also allows you to get in, get your hits, and get back out without delay. Or you could just immobilize the target and run away/return while stealthed.

Trick Shot:
I’d be fine with a default 1-second poison per hit. Even if you replaced the trait Dagger Training with something that applies poison on every auto-attack, not just dagger strikes. It may not be much, but at least it gives a Shortbow a little more punch. If nothing else, it can reduce healing without using initiative.

Infiltrator’s Arrow:
Add a slight arc to the path of the arrow, though not making its flight-time any slower. The arc can help getting over slight obstructions so the shadowstep won’t be cut short.

Shadowstepping:
Lose the LoS requirement. Also, never have the targeting indicator be green when a shadowstep cannot or will not execute completely. Don’t tell me why it didn’t work, just show me a red indicator please.

Steal QoL:
If I have no target and click the Steal key, I just Steal in place. If I have a target that’s out of range and click the Steal key, my Steal goes on a short cooldown, and I get no benefit (Hidden Thief, etc). Can we get a slight helping hand? Perhaps grey the Steal button out if a target is selected, but is out of range?

Tala.7638:

if you are going to spend time coding a map/mode like stronnkhole then just make a CtF

I could see that. Just replace the lords with flags. You could either remove the gates or make them player-destructable. Maybe even add a gate to the other lane to give an alternative route. AI guards can be kept or removed. No need for attacking AI.

2-Flag:
Each team has a flag in their base (lord room). Infiltrate enemy base, grab their flag, return it to your base. When both flags are present in your base, you score/win.

1-Flag:
One flag is in the center of the map (supply area). Grab the flag, push into enemy territory. Score/win when you place flag inside the enemy base.

Should it be insta-win when scoring, or should there be a set number of points for victory?

witcher.3197:

Casual PvE players love stronghold. PvP players hate it.

As a Thief who prefers PvP, I like Stronghold. But again, I’m a Thief. I don’t feel limited like I do in Conquest.

Archaon.9524:

But there’s only one spec that rules them all (Even forcing people to build ENTIRE COMPS in order to try to counter it)…and you know what i’m talkin about

D/P Thief???

Well, that’s what I keep hearing people say…. some kind of excuse why Thieves can’t even 1v1 anymore.

[Shakes head in disgust]

Two can be as bad as one. It’s the loneliest number since the number one :-(

No is the saddest experience you’ll ever know. Yes, it’s the saddest experience you’ll ever know :’-(

Coinhead.7591:

Why do you use Hide in Shadows with Trapper’s respite? Their stealth effect doesn’t stack does it? You do get 4s stealth from heal and 4 from trap, but they don’t stack and you just have “double stealth”, right?

Unless I’m mistaken, you can have a max of 5 stacks of Stealth. So I don’t see why it wouldn’t stack. But a single Revealed breaks them both.

I like to do things like in the OP. As a heathen Thief that rarely uses a Shortbow, I really like the idea of capping a point, then intercepting opponents before they can get close. I have a much better shot at “holding” the point if I can keep the fight away from it :-P

But I do love to tie up as many opponents as I can. Infiltrator’s Strike can make the situation so silly at times. You could almost put the Benny Hill theme song behind some of my “fights” with the way opponents are chasing me around.

Before the patch, I could run a “bunker” build that would usually take three opponents focusing on me before they could kill me. I couldn’t quite hold a point, but I could keep it contested.

But like in the OP, I also like to go bang on the gate. I’ll usually take it down, then go hit the Lord once or twice, then get back to capping points. If one or two of the opponents do get drawn to defend their lord, that’s really where the Sword shines. I just run around in their base until they get tired of me or we win.

Hehe, and don’t get me started on Khylo and trolling the clock tower with the Sword :-P

Ps. I would love for the Thief to be able to kill or at least control opponents enough so a Thief can literally keep opponents between points. That would be a true role for a roamer.

choovanski.5462:

secondly theif pushes builds that are weak vs theif out of the meta. zerker warrior, zerker ele, zerker engi etc these are all weak vs a good theif, so people don’t run them much if at all. meta builds are all meta in part because they can deal with theif. because since every team runs a DP theif if your build is counterd by him he can just farm you all game. so people don’t run builds that are weak to theif.

In the current game…..

1. What builds are pushed out of meta specifically by the Thief? Again, builds that are not weak against other professions?

2. What builds are the Thief NOT weak against?

3. Why is the Thief actually taken on teams?

4. Why should a true “glass cannon” not be able to pose a true threat to ANY build 1v1?

5. Why should ONE weapon skill define an entire profession, making others QQ if you ask for choices for viable builds which would give the Thief the ability to have an actual, true role in a combat game?

In other words, the current Thief is hardly a magician or all-powerful diety in determining what is meta. If a build is too glassy to survive an encounter with a Thief, then it’s way too glassy to be fighting anything else. Thieves themselves are too glassy to be fighting anything else. That should be the only indicator needed to know that something’s wrong.

Why does the Thief go for burst damage instead of defense? Because there’s no point. Everyone deals too much damage for it to matter, especially with the loss of offensive power.

We have two choices….
1. To die quickly and deal decent damage.
2. To die quickly and deal insignificant damage.

Who else has to make that choice?

DarkSyze.8627:

Thieves playing victim role?

Yes! Finally! An actual, real for true life role for a Thief to play! Unlike the fake “+1” role Thieves get labeled with.

Anyway, for me personally, I don’t want sympathy… unless that sympathy turns into improvements for the Thief profession. Without improvements, sympathy is meaningless. I’d prefer to skip it altogether and just get the improvements.

I second this idea!

It should only take a check added to on-swap sigils and traits to be workable. Been wanting this since I started.

And people already think the Thief is overpowered. In fact, there are some that think the Thief is overpowered because two of them working together can burst you down in a few seconds. So I have learned to ignore them. All I know is that I’d rather be overpowered than underpowered, and when one profession can’t go 1v1 against any profession other than itself, it is underpowered.

DarkSyze.8627:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MmbMCps00Q

For 2 years: thief always viable: if not, show me their balance sheet and Arena net actions? I can show you more of “thief worse than” evidences if you want? Yes! evidence with actions not with words.

Wow, I see a whole lot of downed/dead thieves in that video. It feels a little like genocide. So sad to watch :-(

This just makes me want the Thief to truly become the “assassin” class. Being able to punch straight through passive defenses. Aegis, Stability, Protection, mirrors, endures, etc.

Yeah, it may need to be rebalanced. But it needs to be rebalanced now anyway.

bliss.4305:

I can sympathize with the shame of not being able to “viably 1v1” other classes at the game’s current state.

HOWEVER, our impact to the outcome of matches is VERY high and your ego of wanting to “be the knight and not the squire” is thoroughly irrelevant. If you don’t like what we do best, you’re looking at a blissful reroll.

I personally enjoy having that much “invisible” impact on my shoulders.

I’m glad you have the team-first attitude and the patience of Job, but it’s not only my ego that’s becoming irrelevant. The Thief as a whole is losing ground against everyone else.

Just look at the Thief’s history of regression. And look at the buffs that every other profession got from the big patch. I bet it would be enlightening for people to try the “Thief’s role” with other professions and see how it works out.

The main problem I have with the Thief is that it is becoming a hasbeen. It’s like Indiana Jones in his 4th movie. Compare it to the original trilogy. He is taking a backseat, and letting Shia Labeouf take center stage, swinging with the monkeys and all that.

Yes, he’s Indiana Jones. No one can take that away from him. But that doesn’t mean he’s relevant anymore.

The Thief can do his invisible job even if unarmed….save for Infiltrator’s Arrow. The +1 situation is just laughable. What kind of situation is that for a combat game? If that is how the Thief is supposed to be, then why not just go all out and make him a ghost or something?

Ego or not, this is a combat game. The design of Guild Wars 2 was to get away from typecast roles. Let me be able to fight with the profession of my choosing. And I don’t mean simply adding DPS to a fight. Let me have some way to be lethal against anyone. If I can’t kill them, why should they be able to kill me?

Again, this is the bottom line… if you’re going to make a “glass cannon” type of profession, then make sure his cannon is a feared and effective one. The problem now is that everyone else got upgrades to defenses AND offenses. Our cannon isn’t so scary now. And our glass didn’t improve while it’s almost like other professions’ armor can break us.