Guild Wars 2

Baronessvonbaugh.2165:

Thieves are given more invisibility time than in the regular play areas. This needs to be the same as for the regular GW2 areas. Also, rangers need to allow number 2 to lock on to them and be able to kill them. Right now it doesn’t. (3 thieves taunt then come up from behind and kill us but we can’t do it to them. What gives?) Make it more balanced which it is not now.

So how do you feel after making a topic and proven that every statement of yours is false?

Ghostwolf.9863:

How do my enemies counter this OP demedge?

Edit: Nurf pliz

Photoshop!

Kincaidia.3192:

I too tried it – and it felt so wrong. No one has enough condition removal to keep up with what that build dishes out.

And on principle, I won’t play it. Hell, D/D glassy gives people more of a chance.

Stop blaming build and start blaming perplexity runes and dire gear. Ever wondered why it wasn’t added in sPvP? because its incredibly OP. And I have no clue why it was added to PvE (adding it to wvw same time since it uses same gear) since conditions has no place there either. So only use for Dire and perplexity became wvw and its very broken there.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Assassins became Thief because they lost all honor in fighting! Now you’re the kind of dirty rats 2hit killing people out from nowhere and gone to nowhere!
End of Story

I feel someone got hid kitten handed to him today

Dire and perplexity.

azerte.4365:

RoyalPredator.9163:

I would like to see this dirty class nerfed heavy in the future.
Not in PvE. In WvW! The overal design is just as terribly OP as Warrior and Ele.

Ele OP!? 0.o

Well he cant kill it so it must be OP.

Silhouette.5631:

Karolis.4261:

Silhouette.5631:

The fact that stealth has a debuff after it gets used is proof enough that it needs to get reworked

How come ? Stealth has no debuff after stealth has been used.

Yes it does, if you attack that is, it causes you to be -revealed- for a few seconds. It has a debuff built into it, forcing the thief into open combat no matter how heavily specced they are into the stealthy arts. This is bad mkay

As I said. There is no debuff after stealth was used.

Silhouette.5631:

The fact that stealth has a debuff after it gets used is proof enough that it needs to get reworked

How come ? Stealth has no debuff after stealth has been used.

BlackDevil.9268:

Can we remove stealth spamming specs once and for all? Not to call it OP, but it pretty much ruins the gameplay of the player facing it. It’s not fun to fight and there are too less counters. The specs are too easy to master and sometimes are really strong.

Of course I mean D/P Thieves and PU mesmers with this. These 2 specs heavily rely on stealth. In my opinion stealth should be a luxionary, not something you can spam. If you can’t handle the enemy’s damage and get outplayed, you shouldn’t be able to cast 2/3 skills and have a free escape ticket. With both specs you have kittenness outplaying you so you can’t interrupt it. With D/P thieves you have blind spam just before stealthing. This makes it almost impossible to stun or interrupt them from stealthing and with PU mesmers there’s a fair chance to get aegis so they can’t get stunned either. Not only that but mesmer’s gameplay is really dodgy, making it pretty useless to try to lock them down on 1 point cause they can easily blink away.

I would come up with a suggestion that demotes spamming stealth, but doesn’t affect those who use stealth as a luxionary:
When using a stealth within 10 seconds from the previous stealth, your stealth will last 1 second shorter. This effect will stack the more times you use stealth within 10 seconds of your previous stealth, meaning if you use a ’’3rd’’ stealth within 10 seconds of the 2nd stealth while already having the debuff your stealth will last 2 seconds shorter.

Making revealed last longer would ofc also just be just as good to nerf it as mentioned above. 3 seconds is just a joke. It should be at least 4, maybe 5 seconds.

On some way I still think stacking stealth should be possible since that can offer teams still some combo’s and surprise attacks, however spamming stealth should be punished.

We need less passive play, more active play!

Thief is probably most active played class in this game and yet you speak about passive play.

Its not 13k. Its 10805 same as thief has. Get your facts right. If you want to rely on thiefs blind spam, I suggest you taking one to your group. Blinds wont save you from boss hits, what anet has to change so everyone and their grandma would want to have thief in group for every pve encounter.

Marethyu.1358:

anet does love their boobs

And we love them too.

McFribble.2349:

Tao.5096:

Jelzouki.4128:

If these people who claim thief to be OP ever played a thief, they would realize that trying to enter the fight in sPvP while capping a point that has a 2v2 or 3v3 going on can be deadly. We have stealth and evades so we can get away from dying so easily!!! If we did not have these skills we would surely be KO’d in seconds from any class that has some sort of zerker cc or conditions even! Most of our condition removal is in stealth!

I have a tendency to tell each Warrior which says that Thief is OP to reroll something else, because he’s beyond saving.

I have an 80 Thief, an 80 Warrior, and close to getting my Elementalist to 80.

Thief is BY FAR the easiest class of these three to play in PvP. The QQ is sound. I suggest YOU try playing a class that doesn’t have two reliable escapes on hand at nearly all times, and then tell me thieves aren’t an uphill fight from the get go.

The biggest culprit is the asinine amount of healing Thieves get while in stealth. This wouldn’t be too much a problem if they didn’t also have an abundant access to blinds as well. There have been many times I dropped a thief (and have been dropped) to 10% health just to regen most of it back in little time, and continue fighting while his opponent is still heavily hurt.

You know that warriors heal much more while out of stealth with 0 healing power, right?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Karolis.4261:

Doggie.3184:

I want this for my 1200 range weapon.

A cannon! And lets rename thief to a gunner, where p/p is a factor.

P/P isn’t bad. Check out Taquito’s videos for some very good, stealthless gunslinger gameplay.

I’m lately comparing everything from pve perspective, cause thats what I do the most nowdays. And there p/p is getting crushed by other ranged options, mainly because of crap auto attack. I would say that shortbow possibly has better dps because of much better auto attack and cluster bombs which does 2x less damage then unload but eats 2 less initiative so is more spammable, not to mention possibility of evades, poison fields and inf arrow on shortbow.

Einlanzer.1627:

Karolis.4261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arikyali.5804:

Most thieves can agree that Death Blossom is one of the weakest skills for a thief. The damage output isn’t worth the initiative.

I strongly disagree!

The damage output against a single target is indeed weak, however this skill has the ability to deal AoE damage and should be used as such.

There is no situation where you cant just bring S/P and Showrtbow for aoe purposes and do much more damage then death blossom.

I’m not so sure it’s true that there’s no situation, but even if there is, it’s beside the point. AoE is needed often – who wants to be forced to use S/P and/or SB just so they can deal with an add or two?

Every set needs some AoE capability even if it isn’t the primary purpose of the set. Death Blossom is actually perfect from that perspective. The evade just needs to be a little more reliable.

It is wise to bring every weapon set as a thief to deal with different encounters (speaking pve). If I will need single target dps I will pull out d/d. If i want Melee aoe dps i will pull out S/P, If i have to range something i will pull out shortbow or p/p etc etc.
Its same as a ranger that brings bows to dungeon, while other 4 members stack mobs in corners and melee it, and says “I like my longbow (and it has aoe skill in it), why should I be forced to use sword or greatsword”. Well because thats the best choice.
Thats why thiefs and rangers have a bad rep in dungeons. Many of players are simply ignorant and keep using their flashy weapon sets/wrong gear which they find pleasing and scream “play your way” bullkitten. I honestly have seen D/P thief in dungeon once.

Doggie.3184:

I want this for my 1200 range weapon.

A cannon! And lets rename thief to a gunner, where p/p is a factor.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Weird because I’m so sick of warrior chain ccs, soaking up damage and regenerating, of guardian blocking all day long, making my damage look insignificant with protection and still hitting me for 3k on autos, of engineer running spamming conditions blowing up half the world meanwhile, mesmer phantasms beating me up and clones stacking bleeding while the owner sits in stealth laughing, necros sitting behind a second health bar while I burn and bleed to death and their little zerg of freaks is biting off my heel…

Hush you permastealthingpermaevadingtankyashell20kbackstabbingsworddagger cheesecake.

Carpboy.7145:

Karolis.4261:

Carpboy.7145:

Sunt.6835:

NinjaEd.3946:

1 second makes little to no difference in wvw. Pvp maybe, things tend to be close quarters and often quick but wvw is open and unpredictable.

Thief isn’t op, OP. It’s a learning curve that people are either lazy or selfish to learn. When playing against other players there are multiple things to learn.

Too many conditions? Bring condi clear/negation.
Too many stuns? Bring a stun breaker.
Too many evasions? Bring lock-down abilities like immobilize, and cc.
Too much damage? They prolly die in seconds, out smart them.
Too much stealth? WELL, you could, _______ (multiple suggestions, varies by profession and build).

Problem is stealth counters aren’t obvious, they are learned by playing the game. Most people rather just get a 1200 aoe reveal for 20 seconds and call that a fair buff to their class to deal with thieves, because they don’t care to L2P. It’s a sad truth, most people aren’t interested in working on kills. I can bet that atleast 80% or more of main-thieves rarely run into troubles when playing against other thieves. Why? Because they know what to expect and how their things work.

Thief isn’t broken, and stealth isn’t broken (which btw Mesmer has). It’s the ability to ask questions and learn that is absent.

Stealth is not broken. 30 shadow arts is broken
They ban SA and PU in touney for a reason

Yes in tpvp SA is extremely broken. i forgot about that gm SA trait that allows you to decap points while stealthed. Good thing its banned in tournaments or this’d be OP.

And what trait might that be, doc?

I think its called sarcasm or something :/

I apologize then. In these forums its hard to differ sarcasm from “serious” statements and suggestions, specially when it comes to thief.

Carpboy.7145:

Sunt.6835:

NinjaEd.3946:

1 second makes little to no difference in wvw. Pvp maybe, things tend to be close quarters and often quick but wvw is open and unpredictable.

Thief isn’t op, OP. It’s a learning curve that people are either lazy or selfish to learn. When playing against other players there are multiple things to learn.

Too many conditions? Bring condi clear/negation.
Too many stuns? Bring a stun breaker.
Too many evasions? Bring lock-down abilities like immobilize, and cc.
Too much damage? They prolly die in seconds, out smart them.
Too much stealth? WELL, you could, _______ (multiple suggestions, varies by profession and build).

Problem is stealth counters aren’t obvious, they are learned by playing the game. Most people rather just get a 1200 aoe reveal for 20 seconds and call that a fair buff to their class to deal with thieves, because they don’t care to L2P. It’s a sad truth, most people aren’t interested in working on kills. I can bet that atleast 80% or more of main-thieves rarely run into troubles when playing against other thieves. Why? Because they know what to expect and how their things work.

Thief isn’t broken, and stealth isn’t broken (which btw Mesmer has). It’s the ability to ask questions and learn that is absent.

Stealth is not broken. 30 shadow arts is broken
They ban SA and PU in touney for a reason

Yes in tpvp SA is extremely broken. i forgot about that gm SA trait that allows you to decap points while stealthed. Good thing its banned in tournaments or this’d be OP.

And what trait might that be, doc?
And SA is “banned” in player organised tournaments because that can prolong fights indefinately without someone dieing, specially when 2x D/P thieves meet, not because of some trait, which dont exist, that lets u cap points while stealthed. Since i mentioned it – stealth preventing capping is simply stupid thing that cry babies brought to this game. You cant chase off stealthed thief from spvp sized cap point ? I mean… seriously ?

scabrous.7835:

We meet with skill floor problem again, imo. PW is too strong when played by nabs vs nabs since spamming 3 is really rewarding in these scenarios (and I mean it, I’ve tested 25/30/0/0/15 ogre runes in hotjoin and melting 3 people at once using PW+Haste wasn’t rare). However, at higher levels it feels balanced as people know how to counter it and S/P in general puts less pressure on the target than D/P, imo. Also, the aftercast of flurry-part is still deadly.

EDIT: Stun-flurry split into 2 skills and I might swap my SD/DD for SP/DD in WvW.

Man… Your sig is awesome.

Duke Nukem.6783:

so sick of “go stealth then use finish move”

so sick of “stealth then run and nobody can catch me”

so sick of “evade evade EVADE”

just nerf it anet. and hurry up the theif has been around long enough….

Hello

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Arikyali.5804:

Most thieves can agree that Death Blossom is one of the weakest skills for a thief. The damage output isn’t worth the initiative.

I strongly disagree!

The damage output against a single target is indeed weak, however this skill has the ability to deal AoE damage and should be used as such.

There is no situation where you cant just bring S/P and Showrtbow for aoe purposes and do much more damage then death blossom.

NinjaEd.3946:

1. Black powder bomb, 40 second cooldown
2. Black powder shot + HS (the infamous d/p)
3. CnD on contact
4. on steal if traited
5. on rez if traited (poor decision if traited)
6. Shadow refuge if they remain in the aoe for the duration, otherwise they are revealed
7. SB #2 on a smoke field from either smoke screen or bps (assuming no targets are hit)
8. When they hit 25% health, 90 second cooldown (aweful trait though)
9. Hide in shadows healing skill, 30 second cooldown
10. Miscelanous traits such as instinctual response, decent of shadows.
11. Various stolen skills, such as throw tuft/feathers, etc.

Oh and btw stealth =/= invincible. The number of stealth skills we have has 0 relation to our ability to out class others, thief is dangerously overrated it’s just new players and players who are just starting wvw/pvp don’t quite grasp it yet.

OMG thats 11 ways to stealth, thats kitten OP!

Thief OP nurf thief.

Did IS ever had speed boost passive? Not on my watch.

Rafahil.2857:

I was under the impression that the auto attack chain was better. You also gotta think about the trickery 25 point minor trait that gives 15% extra damage with the auto attack chain and critical strikes 25 point minor trait for another 10%.

And both of them apply for any kind of physical damage, not only skill Nr.1 (auto attack chain)

Yeah but no worries. Soon they will nerf it so finally it will do less damage then auto attack:D

Nick.6972:

I don’t like running Zerker gear, but I want to finish the tediously long boss fights as fast as it’s possible.

Those Boses probably have tens of millions HP. It’s ridiculous.
Not to mention bosses are static, doesn’t move, just soak up the damage and use badly telegraphed one shot mechanics. (Can you actually see the incoming one shots through the skill effect cluster*?"

No I don’t

Shockwave.1230:

I did the numbers on this and the conclusion is that Pistol Whip’s DPS is about 28% more than the Sword Autoattack chain for thief.

I spammed the sword auto attack chain 20 times non-stop and found that I was able to land those in almost exactly 49 seconds.

I spammed Pistol Whip 7 times in a row (because that was the most I could build for) and found I could do this in about 15.8 seconds.

Cast Time of an entire cycle
Time to complete an entire sword auto attack chain is about 2.45 seconds.
The time to complete a pistol whip is about 2.25 seconds.

Damage Coefficients
The total damage coefficient of the auto attack chain is 2.9
Pistol Whip’s damage coefficient = 3.14

Coefficient Per Cycle
Definition: The average damage coefficient throughout an entire skill cycle
Auto attack chain = 1.183673469
Pistol whip = 1.395555556

Coefficient Per Cycle Per Second
Definition: The average damage coefficient inflicted from a skill cycle in 1 second
Auto attack chain = 0.483132028
Pistol whip = .620246914

Coefficient Per Cycle Per Second Percentage
Auto attack chain = 100%
Pistol whip = 128%

I have some margin for error given how I had to collect the data for the Cycle cast times, but it’s unlikely I was off so much that pistol whip would be calculated to be less than 20% more dps than the sword auto attack chain. I hope people find this information helpful.

It don’t rly need any calculations to see that just by looking to skill bar and/or damage done on target. It takes about same time to complete pistol whip and auto attack chain (guessing that pistol whip is little faster) but pistol whip damage is higher then all 3 hits of auto attack combined.

Well it depends a lot on your group. If your group sucks and/or lacks dps you will probably be the first to go down. On spider queen everything should be alright if no one breaks the stack and moves the boss, but that applies to most of encounters. Always carrying signet of agility on your bar helps a lot for those bleeds. On kholer in most cases dodging as soon as he starts spinning should keep you alive and any damage taken should be healed up pretty fast with signet of malice+ pistol whip on kholer and his spawned trash. CoE has by far he easiest boss encounters imo, its very easy to evade alphas aoe (p2 and3 ) with pistol whip without actual dodges. Using signet of shadows blind to avoid initial trash wolfs oneshot jumps also helps.
The worst part running dungeons with thief is current “Only warrior” meta. After filtering out all “only warrior” lfg posts and ending up kicked on daily basis from freaking CoF pug central before even entering just because of being thief can get inside your head pretty fast (at least it does for me).

Burnfall.9573:

Karolis.4261:

Masterjalf.4928:

Thieves are OP and they need to be deleted from the game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

no other class can do that

By the way i unistalled GW2

See you never Noobs

If you play like most of those ppl that die in outnumbered videos…Good riddance.

Karolis.you are a thief..

In other word,

it’s always, and will always be the non-thieves classes for dying to thieves.

Share with us, gives us all of your Op stats, than maybe, perhaps, our deaths by you, would be, can be justified.

Ex; If you have, if you hold, all the Keys, to provide, help, support and aide the helpless, why blame and accuse them for being helpless… when you denied, restrict them aide… in the first place?

As the saying goes, " As long you have, you hold, all the controls and have, and hold, all the powers, you have no reason, no justification, for blaming and accusing others for being weak and being vulnerable "

Burnfall, you’re a troll. Nevertheless I will reply.
This is discussion about heartseeker and its supposedly too high damage, not about a thief class. Fact that i play a thief doesn’t mean that I’m biased in this. I have never used heartseeker as a damage source and never will, nor do I believe that its viable at all to do it, unless on squishy target with <25% HP if he is not in range for backstab.

Cheese is a product of cry babies constantly dieing to certain class/build and refusing to learn of how it works and how to counter it and/or refusing to change their builds/playstyle to reach that goal. Cheese is a product of people who refuse to accept that every game, up to a point, has rock/paper/scissors system.

Reikou.7068:

People like to pretend they can play thief. The truth is that most of these players cannot.

Glass thief is a build with one of the highest skill floors in the game.

This is also why you simply see permastealth crap in WvW. Because these players cannot play thief if it wasn’t for SA and Shadow’s Rejuvenation carrying them.

Its also why I’m a huge proponent of nerfing/removing Shadow Arts/Shadow’s Rejuvenation, just like how good mesmers are in favor of nerfing/removing Prismatic Understanding, and good Engineers are in favor of nerfing/removing Automated Response. They’re all broken and cheesy traits that carry far too many bad players.

kitten , so many self proclaimed “good players” throwing mocarellas left and right.

Seriously? What thief mechanics has to do with it ? You smash the gate/guards then it either gets contested or not. How can you possibly think that it would have something to do with “thief mechanics”?

Masterjalf.4928:

Thieves are OP and they need to be deleted from the game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

no other class can do that

By the way i unistalled GW2

See you never Noobs

If you play like most of those ppl that die in outnumbered videos…Good riddance.

Is this another qq topic of 2500 armor guy getting hit by hs for 6k ? Well let me clarify things for you, that damage comes only when you are bellow 25% hp. Requires no setup to perform it? Well how about dropping your HP to 25 % in first place and not getting blown by you in the process.

Swimfan.8014:

Karolis.4261:

Using Pistol whip +signet of malice will deal with all the random conditions you get, no need for shadows embrace. 30 in shadow arts for pve is simply your own damage nerf for no reason. IF in any case you get too much damage from conditions, lots of bleed stacks for example you can pop signet of agility which should always be on your skilbar. Shadow rejuvenation is worth only if you are actually spending time in stealth, which means you don’t do damage then. Shadow protector provided regen wont save you from those one shots anyway and honestly with 10850 or 12.3 k hp (with practiced tolerance) pistol whip with signet of malice and mug will give you nice burst heals to top off your hp in most situations, specially when you have more then 1 target.
Oh and about Jormag P2 fight shortbow 1 can reach it (by manually spaming 1, it actually reaches more then 900 then. Closer to 1200) without getting those damaging stacks when you step on the ice.

Really good reply but I found out that this doesn’t work for me. My main problem with PVE dungeon ist that I can’t stay alive long enough if I have no retreat-possibilities. On the other handside those 30 points in Shadow Art transferred to the first line gave me no joy whatsoever ( I tried) since I almost like none of the traits and I’m a great defender of condi removal through stealth since it saved my kitten countless times. I know that there are some awesome thiefs out there (maybe you are one of them) who can do some incredible stuff but I’m a more casual player and the extra dmg I can deal on a dungeon boss doesn’t overweight the time my party members would need to revive me off the floor again and again.
Maybe if I played the thief more than a year and feel more secure about my gaming-skills I switch to 30/30/0/0/10 but atm. my half aggressive and half defensive build works fine for me and that’s more than I had hoped for playing a thief in dungeons :-)

Depends on dungeon/boss/group setup. If group is made from PVT riffle warriors, staff camping guardians and bearbow rangers that run around all over the place like wild gooses ranging melee friendly bosses and refusing to stack trash in corners, going full glass in gear and build+going melee is a suicide. Imho full dps thief works best only in full dps party where stuff dies before it has a chance to kill you. If you cant stay alive long enough w/o getting one shoted by special attacks in full dps build, means fight is taking too long because other party members dont use dps builds. Sadly many ppl refuse to go full dps for dungeons defending their “play your way” bullkitten idea.

Swimfan.8014:

Yes we are. As a thief who is mainly PVE I can tell you that doing dungeons is entirely possible (not world bosses tho, most of the dots you get kill you regardless of what you do … Jormags 2. phase for example)

So here are some basic tips:
-> Dodge a lot! You can dodge almost 4 times in a row thanks to our “Signet of Agility” which gives you a full stamina set every 30 seconds and if not some nice extra precison boost
-> You can go d/d and s/p but I came to the personal conclusion that while d/d is fun there are some more effective sets for dungeons. Try and use p/p once. With (2) you can stack Vuln. for your group and Unload (3) is my personal favorite if you got some power stacking ele or Guardian nearby plus it looks extremly cool.
SB should never be misses since you can control groups and (5) lets you evade if the situation gets risky. D/D works as well but is more suggested if gained more experience since most bosses later on can one-hit you making this set-up strong but dangerous … for you.

Oh and I would recommend you my (a little more) defensive 0/30/30/0/10 Build. 30 in shadow arts is a must in dungeons (imo) since it not only heals conditions while in stealth, you also heal urself duo the grandmaster trait. Combine this with “Shadow Refuge” which is expected of you as a thief and you got some nice back-up strategy if things get risky.

Of course that’s just my opinion but I did really well so far :-)

Regardless, hope you have fun ;-)

Using Pistol whip +signet of malice will deal with all the random conditions you get, no need for shadows embrace. 30 in shadow arts for pve is simply your own damage nerf for no reason. IF in any case you get too much damage from conditions, lots of bleed stacks for example you can pop signet of agility which should always be on your skilbar. Shadow rejuvenation is worth only if you are actually spending time in stealth, which means you don’t do damage then. Shadow protector provided regen wont save you from those one shots anyway and honestly with 10850 or 12.3 k hp (with practiced tolerance) pistol whip with signet of malice and mug will give you nice burst heals to top off your hp in most situations, specially when you have more then 1 target.
Oh and about Jormag P2 fight shortbow 1 can reach it (by manually spaming 1, it actually reaches more then 900 then. Closer to 1200) without getting those damaging stacks when you step on the ice.

Hyde.6248:

So i’ve started doing dungeons as a d/d s/p standard 25/30/0/0/15. And i’ve been getting downed a lot or getting to a really low health. Any tips for me? I heard that d/p is a better set for beginners in dungeons, is that correct?

D/P has no place in PvE. Specially in dungeons. Its single target only and has costly and slow access to stealth compared to d/d (arguably best dps set for bosses where you have access to its back). S/P is simply best for stacked trash clearing because of cleave, smoke field and pistol whip which combined with signet of malice in aoe situation can provide some sick healing. Shortbow best for CoF pug central style trash clearing, because CoF pugs just refuse to stack mobs. I have S/P and shortbow on most of the time, even on mobs bosses because of pistol whip evade frame which provides possibility to continue doing damage while evading big telegraphed hits and no need for accessing targets back, which is the case on most bosses because they are killed in corners or just get spined around a lot due to people circling around.

Reikou.7068:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Karolis.4261:

Even thieves hate on D/P. That says something.

It’s mostly because it’s EZ mode thief. EZ mode anything is usually frowned upon by the gaming community.

More like Shadow Arts is EZ mode for WvW. Pretty much like PU on mesmers.

Any weaponset with Shadow Arts is EZ mode, D/P, D/D, S/D.

Its not stealth that makes D/P hard to fight against (speaking from d/d thief pov) its 3 sources of blinds on single weaponset. So I dont rly care SA or no SA.

Pureguardian.4562:

Dakota.4591:

25/30/0/0/15 for traits. DA 3+6, CS 1+3+11, Trickery 5.
Sword/Pistol and Shortbow. Play around with the heals to find one you like. Signet of Shadows, Shadow Refuge, and a stun breaker. Thief’s Guild elite. Zerker gear with ruby orbs.
Steal to open, Pistol 5 for the blind field, spam autoattack or pistol whip.

Can play around with other builds if you want, but that right there will faceroll pretty much anything that’s not a champion.

okay so S/P and SB. Is D/P a viable option instead of S/P or is S/P a better option?

D/P does not cleave nor evade. S/P does cleave and pistol whip has built in evade frame. If you thinking of single target weapon that d/d.

Warkupo.1025:

Sword has poor spike damage options. Dagger doesn’t.

Pistol Whip roots you and is pretty obvious.

Death Blossom is crap is a pretty lazy argument.

You just proved my point. Dagger is a spike damage weapon and death blossom has no place there because … well… it does low damage in comparison what can pistol whip or sword auto attack cleave. Everyone who uses death blossom for exploration is either new or very ignorant and does it because its looks cool and he read somewhere that unicorns are good for pve. nothing matches S/P and shortbow with power build for that. Anyone who brings death blossom build to serious dungeon grp is a walking talking kick me button. And when it comes to pvp death blossom is as obvious as pistol whip can be, just you can do shadowstep pistol whips with steal and infiltrator signet what makes it not so obvious at all.

Another "thief op he has no cooldowns plz nurf " thread.

Warkupo.1025:

It is an AOE ability on a set that lacks cleave. While the individual damage is less than some of your harder hitting single attacks, the amount of damage it does when against a group of enemies should be significantly higher even without equipping yourself full of condition damage.

The dodge is a bit tricky, and it’s probably easier to just take advantage of some kind of stealth+backstab build for dagger.

I think the power is probably fine. You already have harder hitting single target attacks; turning death blossom into another one won’t make its’ need any greater. Right now it has a niche, and I think it fulfills that niche fairly well.

Well … Sword auto attack hits harder and has cleave. Pistol whip hits harder and has a much stronger built in evade. Death blossom is crap.

I’m still waiting for that promised “Commando” class.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Oh, guess what? We get twelve of these threads every week, buddy. L2P, because people like you are ruining this class. We’re already at the bottom of the balance rungs with eles (who are getting buffed majorly on March 18, while we get nerfed more due to QQ like this), and this doesn’t help the case of balance. I bet you play a warrior, or even worse, a ranger. See signature for details. Come back when you reroll and start beating thieves.

Lol @ even worse a Ranger. Thieves are able to stealth/blindspam all day long. As a Ranger in full zerk, with 0 defense and 2k more health, I still win in fights without spamming either of those things. If I can win in fights without being invisible for 80% of it, so can you ( ; Maybe thieves are the ones that need to L2P.

Your argument is irrelevant. I run a stealthless build and own rangers like you all day. You’re probably one of many with a bear for a pet too.

Bearbow Rangers are idiots, sorry… The only benefit to a bear is their condition removal and that’s only a Brown Bear, besides that they’re garbage. Then again, most pets are…

Oh and good for you, you run stealthless. I bet that means either you Dagger Storm everyone to death or you’re a tanky thief, which doesn’t make “owning a Ranger like me” that hard because I would have less defense than you. Hence why I said “as a Ranger in full zerk.”

SO he kills you because he runs tankier build then your while you run full berserker with all your damage and he invests heavy in toughness and vitality losing tons of damage. That makes all the sense in the world…oh w8 it doesn’t. And dagger storm someone to death? Well stop shooting while someone is reflecting all your projectiles maybe ? Dagger storm on it self does pitiful damage. Do you also consider the fact that rangers compared to thieves has 40 % more base HP? Nothing what you said till now sticks, sry.

Brizna.5612:

I love it in PvE. I click 3, evade attacks, deal some moderate damage and bleed and then bam! I’m perfectly positioned for a backstab.

Though you can manualy position yourself for backstab much faster.

Zach.3264:

Karolis.4261:

Zach.3264:

people keep telling me to play Valk/Cav gear. I don’t get why..

I’ve been running full zerk for a while now and it works great. Sure I’m low hp, but still.. the only time I die is from another Thief getting the drop on me with big hits, a zerg catching me offguard, or someone being able to stunlock me through lag. I’m by no means an elitist, but Thieves are really easy to play .. constant stealth and plenty of evades, I see no need for toughness/vitality.

Keep on rocking that D/P, kitten.

I’ve still not used D/P for WvW. In fact, I don’t think I’ve even learned the weapon skills for it yet. I’ve been using D/D or S/D and Bow since I started.

Then don’t even try. Stay strong!

Galsia.4102:

aLovedhater.4096:

I don’t really want to read the whole thing, but it wasnt a lucky hs ^^ i know how to fight a mesmer, don’t worry bud. it was an easy fight and i didnt take it seriously

Well, I tried offering constructive criticism.

I guess I’ll just go with my initial un-filtered impression: Please don’t shame D/P any more than you already have with that awful gameplay.

We all know what happens when you say someone that they are doing it wrong, specially in peaceful ( lecturing? omg no!) fashion – they get all defensive.

Even thieves hate on D/P. That says something.

aLovedhater.4096:

i didn’t just ‘troll people and kill a ranger’. i fought a ranger, engi, necro, mesmer, ect. and i stealth’d for regen, i’m not stupid enough to fight without survivability. Also i keep them targeted becasue i can hit them with a HS to do dmg and still go into stealth at the end of the leap. but thanks for hating, the first song was 4 corners – michael urgacz vs. sean tyas

No actually you have target on even when you are way too far for HS to reach target or even when trying to stack stealth. So your " I keep them targeted because i can hit them with HS to do dmg and still go into stealth at the end of the leap" doesn’t justify that clumsiness.