Guild Wars 2

Fun tion Gyro is bad. For an elite spec mechanic it’s uninspired, dull, annoying to use, rarely used outside pvp, clunky, dies easily, ai problems, too long stomp.

Why do we get the most BORING mechanic? Game is supposed to be first and foremost FUN TO PLAY. How the hell is this fun ?

Whole spec seems like an alpha version of something else. It’s like they made hammer and totally didn’t think other skills through.

Why the hell do we have so many AI skills already?

WHOSE idea it was to give us Gyros when we already had turrets and these turrets are BAD. It’s like “guys I got an idea! Turrets are bad so lets make more AI skills so engies can have even more BAD things and problematic AI because they clearly don;t have enough of it.”

Everything about scrapper disappointed me except hammer. The worst designed elite spec out of all

It doesn’t need a buff.

It’s already good as it is. It’s perfect.

Also 3/10 trolling

Seems a lot of stuff was cut at the last minute. Check Rocket Charge from trailer and now.

ATM scrapper feels like ti was done at the last minute.

Nope. Not by a long shot. (answer to thread).

Would say upper mid tier.

MY thoughts

Hammer:
- #1 feels slow because aftercast is just terribly terribly LONG. Fix after cast.
- #2 is awesome, really it is BUT make it activate a bit quicker
- #3 is a bit buggy but cool. Make it leap/leap/blast maybe? Daze not always going on the target
- #4 change animation. PLEASE! Make it similar to #2. Anim sucks. Skills is pretty good BUT make it wider cone effect
- #5 is amazing, no change needed at all

Gyros
- TERRIBLE! Idea is bad but execution is even worse
- AI pathing problems! I had my Medic Gyro go places! Why the hell did it feel it was OK to charge at wall and stay there? They can’t keep up with player. MEdic gyro flying around does wasted heals due to moving from target to target and AOE heal procing on the way to target when there’s no one around.
- Radius on most of them is small, they are buggy, easily destructible.
- Their toolbelt skills are 10x better than gyros themselves. Honest.
- Stealth gyro, PLEASE GET RID OF THIS CRAP. Not only it does NOT keep up with the player it’s kitten pretty much everywhere. PvP, WvW, PvE. Waste of a slot. Mortar is better due to hammer #3 and evasive blasting powder keg blast finisher going with scrapper
- Function Gyro, 99,9% useless in pve

So we got stupid ai uninspired gyros that are just terrible. I wonder where did our original scrapper idea go? If you check Rocket Charge (trailer) it’s all fire. Entire Elite Spec seems like it was done a week before reveal.

Gyros are terrible all around. Their toolbelt skills are better.

Hammer is ok but #1 is too weak. Even full zerk it’s weak but that’s my only complaint about it.

Oh and leap is very buggy

He never said root will be removed. It stays. 3s block with heal on 20s cd. Rooting is the price to pay for it.

Starting with Jalis and… a mace?

Erm… what? Why not make it just hammer then ?

It was already +100% in the last bwe. Meaning fury went from 20% to 40%

BlackDevil.9268:

Killyox.3950:

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Vent has really good upkeep healing. Also his Regeneration due to outgoing healing % is crazy.

Druid can spam more healing skills but lacks otgoing healing% of Ventari and regeneration.

I think both are crazy good tbh. Druid has more going for it though due to astral form. Rev is still top notch.

Regeneration is based on your own healing power, not that of the caster. So basically that leaves just to the point which I pointed out which is not really that good sustain healing, but rather a spike for a few seconds and then being stuck to no or little healing for a quite significant time.

No.

If I put Reg on player X player X will get healed based on my own healing power & outgoing healing.

I would know since my Reg healed 800 per second last BWE due to me having ~100-130% outgoing healing.

Also 6k healings

So… did they even show/talk about balance changes? Seems I missed it. They did random order of it or at least not the one they typed on their page.

@SpellofIniquity

Difference is Scrapper was promoted as a lockdown spec. Druid as a top-tier healer support. Druid is top tier healer support AND a lockdown char while scrapper isn’t.

That’s the prob.

Class mechanic wise thiefs are second last:P only engineers are behind.

we are THE ONLY profession with so many ai skills.

Turrets x6 (because supply crate too)
Gyros x6

Bit too much huh ?

You still got THE quickness buff. Which will work great with +100% boon duration (with herald’s help)

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Vent has really good upkeep healing. Also his Regeneration due to outgoing healing % is crazy.

Druid can spam more healing skills but lacks otgoing healing% of Ventari and regeneration.

I think both are crazy good tbh. Druid has more going for it though due to astral form. Rev is still top notch.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

But he has healing on almost everything. Astral Form or not.

Also how is it that Scrapper who was said to be Lockdown character has less lockdown than Druid?

How come Astral Form removes 13 conditions and legend just 1:P Maybe up to 2 ?XD

Anyways I am sure Druid will be nerfed because 3s aoe daze on 5s CD is… nuts on a class not based on energy. That’s pretty much Jade Winds right there without dmg and cost ;p Jade Winds got 5s CD too now.

Anyways not too bothered about Druid vs Ventari because Vent healing is super strong as well and with herald he has a lot of boon ukeep – something Druid does not have. I am however bothered a lot due to Scrapper vs Druid being worlds apart. engie suffers due to toolbelt now or so it feels.

now we REALLY are downtroden scrappers

Wrecked by Druid

Basaltface.2786:

Killyox.3950:

I want more selfish Gyros.

Scrappers are supposed to be downtroden and would first care about themselves then about others since society rejected them.

I dislike our gyros how weak they are and uninspired/boring. Most disappointed with elite gyro.

And Purge Gyro simply sucks compared to all druid stuff and all.
Purge Gyro interval 3s so during 15s he can remove max 10 conditions. Ventari’s cleanse can remove 5×2 condis on skill use. Druid even more.

Wth is with out cooldowns?

druid can remove ALL his darn conditions just by going into his celestial form…

and revenant only 1 condition by switching legend and only with a trait xDDD
Engie isn’t heavy on it either.

Not sure what is more crazy… that removal or -33% dmg for 5 ppl while in astral form…

I want more selfish Gyros.

Scrappers are supposed to be downtroden and would first care about themselves then about others since society rejected them.

I dislike our gyros how weak they are and uninspired/boring. Most disappointed with elite gyro.

And Purge Gyro simply sucks compared to all druid stuff and all.
Purge Gyro interval 3s so during 15s he can remove max 10 conditions. Ventari’s cleanse can remove 5×2 condis on skill use. Druid even more.

Wth is with out cooldowns?

Hammer is awesome, it trully trully is. Function gyro could pass by even though it’s boring (but strong).

Gyros however are complete BS.

Healin gyro vs druid Glyph of renewal or rest of his skill. Gyros are heavilly outclassed and look uninspired.

So so disappointed. Mostly by the fact that we were supposed to be THE Lockdown Elit e Spec. We don;t have half the stuff Druid has tbh.

And here I thought Engie was supposed to be about lockdown? Why does druid has so much daze, aoe daze and so on?

Besides that it seems OP as hell and surely get nerfed but I am kinda disappointed druid what what scrapper was supposed to be about.

Disappointed. same dev on druid and engie and such a big difference.

Funtion gyro vs astral form :P

Tarkan.5609:

Killyox.3950:

And damage. Skill 5 does hit really kitten sword.
language filter is so annoying grrrrrrrrrr.

Sword #2 deals more dmg, scales better with power, chills, has a higher range, costs less and it’s CD is a third of Sw#5. The only thing you lose is a pull + self-pull

Axe #4 allows for better dmg, another gap closer and whatnot.
I will probably never use Sw OH because Axe or Shield just fit better… Axe for mobility+dmg, Shield for defense

And Axe has no block and immobilize as well as no pull/interrupt with huge dmg. We could on like this forever you know. Sword is nice mix between shield (having block) and axe (having dmg and retreat).

When playing Shiro gap closing is not especially hard so I will live without an axe.

BlackDevil.9268:

I think you might wanna re-read the thing I said about ‘’Bolster Fortifications’‘. The protection nerfs 33% of your incomming healing and also has such short duration that it’s not useful after the healing. Conclusion: it doesn’t fit with the herald healing and therefor it shouldn’t be in this trait line. I never stated it was a bad trait.

How does it nerf healing by 33% ? It doesn’t nerf anything. It gives 33% damage reduction to allies and it still heals the same amount as without the trait.

Not sure what are you getting at and where do you get -33% healing from. I think you misunderstand how the trait works or protection boon. It’s a straight up buff.

Haralin.1473:

This is to overpowered remember Speedy kits will give you perma Swiftness this would be a perma heal for allies, i think this would be to strong.

swiftness part ain’t bad but superspeed will do 5x as much healing as swiftness.

BlackDevil.9268:

Killyox.3950:

I wouldn’t want it as a leap/rush. We already have access to these and it’s not like we want to leap all over the place constantly or even move at all sometimes.

Hm well, the only real rush forward is #5 staff. Except for that you would have mallyx, but I don’t see why you would combo Mallyx with Jalis since Glint is much better for that. So unless you would go with shiro, you don’t really have any decent mobility skill to leap/rush forward.

Anyway, something totally different I still want to point out is the fact that many traits are quite useless still:
Herald:

• Bolster Fortifications doesn’t fit with the herald healing at all so I don’t see why this is in the herald line. It pretty much reduces the healing gain by 33%. It’s a nice trait with ventari, so this could need a change.

Salvation:

• Disarming Riposte seems pretty useless and needs some serious icd-reduction (10sec or so) to be noticeable.
• Nourishing Roots needs it’s regen duration be increased to 3 seconds base or just changed to a -10% damage reduction when being near the tablet to up to 5 allies.
• Tranquil Benediction is not worth picking and would need might of 3 seconds added to it or a 1second duration protection or fury added to be worth.
• Eluding Nullification’s ICD is way too long and should be around 2 seconds to prevent people from double dodging, but still having that nice condition removal on dodge with certainty. Currently 10 sec is just way too random.

Retribution:

• Improved Aggression: Pve Trait, might be useful with HoT content? Currently isn’t useful as far as I’m concerned anywhere.
• Steadfast Rejuvenation is a pretty boring grandmaster trait and totally not impressive. Should get a buff in my opinion. Maybe +5 energy added to it or the healing increased/ AoE.

Invocation:

• Charged Mist is too hard to use imo. Rather have it that it gives might when you use a skill above 50 energy and not just when it drops below 50.
• Cruel Repercussion is a bit of a wierd trait for the revenant as you dont really have a hard single hitting skill besides maybe something on hammer or staff 2. Though even if you notice a skill has been negated, you already used the buff due the fast attacking of the revenant. I would rather have the buff apply 3 times 25% and maybe even have a lower ICD.

Devastation:

• Malicious Reprisal is just horrible since the icd is way too long and (havent tested this but thought by logic) if it procs with aegis its useless.
• Nefarious Momentum is kinda unnoticeable since you dont and cant really use many shiro stance skills. the might stacks per skill could be increased but I highly doubt if that will increase the quality of the trait.
• Dismantle Fortifications is not worth it compared to the other grandmasters in devastation. The only skill that reslly benifits from this trait is Surge of the Mist which is fairly easy to dodge and hard to hit all 9 times. My addition to this trait would be to gain 1-2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds when succesfully removing a stack of stability (5 sec icd). The current effect would still be without icd.

Herald
Bolster Fortifications – it is actually very useful with Ventari’s Will. IT’s still OK in general to get protection when using heal since chances are that’s when you need it the most. It’s not that bad

Salvation
Eluding Nullification imo is fine.

Retribution
Steadfast Rejuvenation – no to every +energy suggestion as that would pigeonhole us. Besides that agreed that this is meg.

Invocation
Charged Mist – this would be decent if it were “when you use skill below threshold. Threshold 50”. As it is it’s laughable.

Cruel Repercussions – only somewhat useful for hammer I guess. Besides that it’s bad.

Agreed on the rest (being bit too weak)

The V.8759:

My personal proposed changes:

• healing turret: decrease initial healing, increase overcharge healing (promoting turret upkeep). Increase cooldown to 24s while picking up makes it 18s (still 25% decrease).
• elixir H: thrown elixir H, add 1s of resistance (100%).
• AED: increase healing power scaling alot (1.5, for real tanking purposes). Static shock stun increased to 2s, its really hard to land anyway.
• Med Kit: healing skill on toolbelt seems fair as long med kit gets a rework, giving it AoE abilities for example.
• Medic gyro: dont know yet, but seems like it at least needs better options to keep it up.

As you can see these propesed changes are to make every heal skill fit a different kind of build (bunkering, dps etc).

Edit: almost forgot but gadgeteer needs rework too to make AED effective

This is very bad. :P This is just straight out huge nerf to HT for no reason. HT is like it is for a long time and you don;t see engies dominating anything at all.

You don’t take good skill to garbage levels just to have more garbage to choose from.

You take garbage up to good level to create a choice.

because its heal amount is balanced around 1 target. With more it would get a nerf and be crap for us alone.

Because the shield requires glint and which you might not always want to take.

Why won’t you just go s/s + s/sh :P

nr 5 lets you get out of aoes and hits like a truck. It’s also good to single out enemies, interrupt them, move them out of aoes.

OH Sword also has higher uptime on block and mobility.

You can choose – lower CD, duration and mobility or longer CD, duration, heal and no mobility.

Grasp will be pretty kitten decent after they fix it’s connection and pathing issues. Decaps, grabbing bunkers/rezzers out of position for burst, separating. And then there’s second part of Sword #4 which is frontal Immobilize.

And damage. Skill 5 does hit really kitten sword.

language filter is so annoying grrrrrrrrrr.

Druid taming Mordrem :P

Maybe the big guys in the first BWE map ? The charging ones XD

cafard.8953:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

The real question is what would a rifle bring to the class.

Roleplay.

We’re hunters.
We have dogs.
We have outrageous mustaches.
We have a… bow?!?

I should be able to have my dog track a boar before we gank it 10 vs 1 with my hunter buddies, and expose the trophy above the fireplace while drinking spirits, not summoning them.

that’s a hunter, not a ranger

Asmodal.6489:

its not really rng. last in first out. I do get what you are saying though. there is so much condi flying around and I get the feeling that each class has so much personal condi clear that they do not need us as much as before.

yet pure of voice can be very strong. vurn turns into protection, chill into resistence, burn into aegis. I would love to have means to target those directly.

Isn’t it how it used to be? Last in first out? I believe they changed to random already quite some time ago.

I wouldn’t want it as a leap/rush. We already have access to these and it’s not like we want to leap all over the place constantly or even move at all sometimes.

When mesmer was pretty much the only class without reliable swiftness XD

Xyonon.3987:

As a person who loves and enjoys both, engi and mesmer, equally, I also agree that solo skills should be better than allrounders. Or that is to say:

• The Defender should ALWAYS outshine the Bulwark.
• The Feedback should also ALWAYS outshine the Defense Field (toolbelt).
• The Bulwark AND it’s toolbelt should be equal to the Defender OR Feedback.

TL:DR version, no it should not. Classes need to be balanced as a whole, not a skill per skill basis that means nothing.

Longer version

Different classes work differently. Engineer is pigeonholed into kits with which his power grows. Elite specs and the entire class should not be based around the idea of always having kits because that is not our class mechanic. So if we don;t take kits, we are left with a single weapon with no weapon swap. That’s where the problem is. With kits some skills may be too strong, without kits they are too weak.

Such it is with gyros. Scrapper with gyros is bad. Simple. Scrapper with 1-2 gyros tops and some kits will probably be good.

Bulwark is better maybe in its simple form but iDefender has 25s CD vs bulwarks 30-kitten CD since it starts after it is destroyed/runs out of time. It will also die instantly in bigger fights when absorbing dmg from more targets.

3s of block on 20s CD from toolkit > bulwark gyro :P

I actually like Bulwark Gyro’s Toolbelt skill 10x more than bulwark gyro itself.\\

You are also convieniently setting this up in mesmer’s favour. Why? Because why should Bulwark + toolbelt be equal to Defender? WHY? Aren’t you forgetting something ? TOOLBELT is our class mechanics, same kittenter are for you. Why do you think it’s fair for bulwark + our class mechanic to be equal to just your skill without taking into account your class mechanic? If anything it should be skill + class mechanic vs skill + class mechanic so bulwark + toolbelt vs defender + shatters. You also have weapon swap which we don’t have unless we sacrifice u-slot for kit and then we can;t have all the gyros too. So yeah, I disagree 100% with you on how it should be balanced.

Like I’ve said, professions are balanced as a whole and not as small pieces.

It’s kinda funny how mesmers are complaining about engineer gyros given how engineer forums are ablaze over how bad gyros are.

Like how CDs start after it is destroyed/time runs out. Making our heal 31-44s CD bulwark 31-45 or so and so on.

I will happily trade gyros for some of your skills xD

@Thread name – it’s not supposed to.

Core problems are to be resolved on their own. Elite Specs are meant to offer a new playstyle.

That’s about it and that’s exactly what they are doing.

Question is what gear will scrapper go for if he;s more of a bruiser than assassin;p
Soldier + zerk 50/50 ?

He is supposed to be a bruiser so he needs sustain. That’s also if you combo with waterfield and nothing else. 1 good daze from leap can save you 4k+ dmg as well

With Toolkit it will be cool to double block.
Some Gyros have potential to be cool (if Anet buffs them :P)

Nice numbers. Almost as good as my Ventari Rev with almost 130% outgoing healing :> Just different sources.

Definitely Ele healing support looks strong.

And I think raids might have spot for 2 strong supporters. 2 people pumping a lot of aoe heals for 10 players is a lot when fights are not a simple stack and burst.

They will have them.

No elite spec took away class mechanic. Scrapper still has toolbelt, Chrono hkittenters, Reaper has shroud although changed, guardian still has virtues, zerk still has burst skills, daredevil still has stealth skills.

Not having them would invalidate a ton of traits, weapon skills, utility skills, elite skill, heal skill.

Maybe you will get a thingy to empower your pet magically or perhaps call one more version of it to assist in a fight for some time :P

Lemondish.3268:

Morfedel.4165:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am seeing post upon post in the other subforums about how they are taking the feedback from a BWE and using it to significantly change aspects of the ES’s. To call it a waste strikes me as disconnected bias.

The only thing confirmed about BWE was 3 invite only betas. As we had at release. Which then included some additional open betas. So trying to imply we will only have one test for feedback strikes me as crying wolf in that reguard. Sure, I would have preferred they announced them all at once, in the first week, but that doesn’t justify irrationally declaring the testing we will have as “a waste”.

Agreed.

Moreover, as stated, just because BWE3 is the last beta weekend doesn’t mean beta testing is over. It COULD mean that. It could also be that they will have some open beta time where the entire world can play. After all, they had BWEs for the core game AND open betas at the end before the game went live.

Granted, they haven’t told us either way, but the point is we don’t really know yet, do we?

Even more important is that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that balance and changes will not end when HoT launches.

I don’t think this is the issue people are getting at.

Imo it has more to do with the fear of being left after the release and ANet not doing big enough changes at that point and focusing more on fixing maps/raids/other stuff.

I can understand that fear that there won’t be enough attention to Scrapper/Druid.

As an Engineer-main player… I agree. I want something else instead of this :P

Also I rather keep toolbelt skill but shadow refuge > sneak gyro due to gyro being aggro magnet.

Craft exotics and have a go at it with diff builds.

I am doing pure Zerk, pure Cleric, Dire + Rabid combo

Guard is still amazing.

I think it had an effect on daze since there was 1 1/4 daze effect with diff coloring.
So impact savant + sigil of paralyzation + runes of the mesmer ?:P

lorddarkflare.9186:

I suppose I should have been more specific.

The Scrapper skills and traits only provide a single stun whilst at the same time providing a crapload of dazes.

To me, this suggests a mistake may have been made with impact savant.

Vajra.3914:

I belive when it come to stun duration, it also implied daze, since if I’m not mistaking the sigil of paralyzation actualy gives 30% to daze as well, while stating only stun duration.

This is what I thought at first, but in the stream, Thunderclap received the +20% gain but all the Gyro Dazes stayed baseline.

Gyros have their own stats like ranger’s pets i think.

Dojo.1867:

Xyonon.3987:

So is this thread about nerfing HT to make the healing gyro less awful in comparison?

If you read my posts you would see that it is about nerfing HT and buffing the other heals/underperforming engi skills in general.

People here stating HT is balanced are kittening hypocrits. Yes, engi is balanced with HT because most of his other stuff is bad. HT does way too much though.

We are not in good enough spot to warrant nerfs to the only good thing lest it breaks us.
First let them buff other options. Then if these options are good they can tune HT more in line.

Healing skill is very important and if it’s bad it can drastically weaken a class. Besides HT has been like this since pretty much forever and you don’t see engies dominating.

Ezrael.6859:

As Ring of Warding is a ward it could be thematically possible to make this a Lightning Field.

It would be nice to have some variety and Blast / Leap options beyond endless Light Fields and Retaliation.

Plus some different Swiftness access options.

Ring of Warding – Lightning Field.
Mighty Blow – 450 range.
Symbol of Protection – 3/4s cast time, remove one pulse of the symbol.

Would make the Hammer lovely.

More like Light field.

Seems like something messed up from BWE1 then. Haven’t used it much in BWE2. Mostly Ventari/Herald and Shiro/Herald Mallyx/Ventari.

If so then it needs to be fixed.