Guild Wars 2

There’s nothing to really support there being asura gates in Cantha or Elona. The quests that took Factions and Nightfall characters to Eye of the North being canon would require Vekk, Ogden, and those other dwarves being underneath Kamadan, Lion’s Arch, and Kaineng City all at the same time. It is more likely that they are treated like the quests that take Nightfall characters to Factions and Prophecies (or Factions characters to Prophecies) – a simple mechanical devise that isn’t actual canon, more or less, since the events being talked about happened 3 years (and a few weeks/months) earlier (respectively).

The asura gates under Kamadan and Kaineng might actually have existed, but there’s no hard evidence for such. Just the gate beneath Lion’s Arch (as its mentioned in War in Kryta).

-continued from previous post-

ThatOddOne.4387:

From the GW2 wiki.

It’s best to find the sources, rather than quoting a fan-written article.

The fight between the Dwarves and the Destroyers consumed the Dwarven race. Few lived to return to the surface and tell the tale of their victory—and those who did had been irrevocably altered. No longer made of flesh and bone, no blood pumped through their veins. Instead, they found their bodies composed entirely of stone surrounding nothing but cold, hard earth.

No longer interested in maintaining their solidarity as a race, these last Dwarves scattered across Tyria, finding battles to fight in the deep caverns or making new homes in far-flung hills, ever-watching the borders where caverns emerge into the surface world. Those few individuals who can rightfully claim to have met a Dwarf in their lifetime are rare, and all speak of the strange, driven passion that consumes these few survivors.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World#Dwarves

And the source for your own argument rather shows that they’re not playable race material. Unlike the other playable races, they don’t show solidarity, no unity despite the collective consciousness. They’re hermits now, and limited in numbers – ever decreasing numbers as they battle the destroyers. And now that the destroyers are appearing on the surface more frequently, which is further commented on in Edge of Destiny iirc, their numbers seem to be dwindling.

ThatOddOne.4387:

The dialogue is just that, dialogue, it is speculation from a single character and situational.

And why couldn’t Ogden be the sole reasonable dwarf? After all, he is “situational.”

ThatOddOne.4387:

200 years have passed since then, 200 years of -defending- the surface. Not forging into the Depths. Attitudes might well have changed. Hell, they probably would have been different from the start.

My entire point being there is very much room for ArenaNet to make stone dwarves into a unique playable race with a lot of depth, and it would most importantly make sense.

While the Movement of the World – a source from 2009 that got retconned in multiple ways via the argument of it having been put through multiple revisions by scholars of the Durmand Priory – does say that they stand at the surface, everything since has said that they’re in the Depths themselves, fighting destroyers. An active battle of offense and defense.

200 years of defending? Yes. 200 years of defending in the Depths against a constant attack from Primordus without any means of reproduction.

Is there room for their return? Sure. Room for becoming playable? Possible, but unlikely. I think there’s a lot less room than you’re believing. But to each his own opinion. Besides, you’re making a huge assumption by simply disregarding our sources on their personality as “situational.”

ThatOddOne.4387:

They may decide they want the GW franchise to start mirroring other fantasy universes but we do know that their last known goal was to move away from that by writing dwarves out and redesigning the sylvari to make sure that they weren’t elves.

Again, for the last time, ArenaNet have -already- made the dwarves different to other fantasy universes. Your logic. It is not working.

It seems you didn’t understand Dustfinger’s point in what he said. He was meaning that “it is possible ArenaNet would want to go against everything they’ve already set up, but so far they don’t want this.” In other words, he was giving a hypothetical logic-twister to go with his opposition’s arguments of bringing dwarves back – by saying that ArenaNet could want to mirror other fantasy stories in the future, but currently and all their actions for GW2 up to now, has been for the opposite.

In other words, he was arguing on your side – that GW2 hasn’t gone in standard fantasy direction, and that they aren’t likely to go in such direction.

ThatOddOne.4387:

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

facedesk

This isn’t getting into your head, is it?

People don’t want them back like they were in Prophecies.

Really? Re-read the post I was responding to, and you’ll see that that person wanted:

yes maybe we dont play as dwarves just bring theme out let theme go back to enslaving dredge and have theme have a great war once we defeat primordus they will have no reason to stay hidden and they can come back out

That sounds like wanting them to be as they were in Prophecies. Did I say “people”? No, I was responding to the one individual.

ThatOddOne.4387:

People want them how they are now, which is different to the norm.

Actually, you’re the only person who’ve I’ve seen wanting to play a stone dwarf.

ThatOddOne.4387:

What they are now does not preclude them from being a major or even playable race.

It kind of does. If only in the numbers they have remaining.

ThatOddOne.4387:

But it HASN’T written them off, has it?

That’s my entire point. Stop ignoring it.

Actually, it kind of has. The purpose of it was to give ArenaNet a reason not to include them in the story.

They still exist in lore, but they’re a dying species, unknown to most of those still alive, with little to no indivuduality and an ever decreasing chance of survival.

You use Ogden’s comment as proof that they’re still around… but how accurate is Ogden, exactly? And even if they’re still around now, how long until they’re wiped out?

Also keep in mind that their numbers are limited – this outright prevents them from being playable, imo, as there’d be millions of players that could be dwarfs. That’s hardly limited numbers.

Even if they’re not impossible to return now, ArenaNet has stated that they were writing them out. We’re not ignoring you or your arguments, but it does feel like you’re ignoring ours.

ThatOddOne.4387:

ArenaNet have backtracked significantly since that “quote” (still using the term lightly because I still haven’t seen it linked). This is undeniable fact as it is right there in the game.

It was outright stated with this that there’d be one dwarf seen in the game. And Ogden’s statement isn’t exactly proof against writing them out of the story.

You don’t need to kill something off to write them out. TVTropes calls what ArenaNet did to dwarves being put on a bus

ThatOddOne.4387:

You mean… The entire point of GW2?

No, actually it’s not.

There’s dozens of other threats and plots besides the dragons – the living story is the proof of this. And even if you disregard those, what about after the Elder Dragons are done as a plot (they don’t all need to be killed off, ya know)? The Elder Dragons, now down by one, was just the point of the main plot. And now that the original main plot is done, it can go a different direction and leave the other five dragons – if all are even focused on – for side plots.

-rest in next post-

The Black Curtain was the area containing Godslost Swamp (renamed due to the flooding of the Temple of the Ages as well as the silencing of the gods), and bordering areas to the east, west, and south.

Talmark Wilderness is (mostly) off of the map, though part of it is seen – I believe – in Claypool, Fort Salma, and the areas between there and around. But it’d be only the easternmost part of Talmark Wilderness. Why it was renamed? Well, it doesn’t seem to be wilderness anymore.

Bergen Hot Springs is a good question. I suspect that it was where Melandru’s Cantoh is now (they share the same shape, and match roughly the same location, though the latter leads into a cave now). Alternatively, it could be where The Lawen Ponds are, which if so means the place was flooded into a swamp.

Cursed Lands were likely called such because they were littered with undead. In GW2’s time, this would likely be where Salma’s Hearth, Orlaf Encampment, and/or Taminn Foothills are. Hard to tell due to the change in topography.

Watchtower Coast would be where Eastern Divinity’s Dam and the northern Queen’s Forest is – likely renamed because it’s no longer a coast, though the Queen’s Forest may have always had that separate name.

Tears of the Fallen would be Viath Shore primarily. The name is likely only a change for us players, imo, as Viath Shore makes more sense.

Stingray Strand would be the coast of Caledon Forest – primarily Quetzal Bay. Given the name, it was likely renamed after the Quetzal tengu when the Dominion of Winds was made. It’d also include other areas, likely named by sylvari given what we see.

Fisherman’s Haven likely became Kraitbane Haven. The renaming should be obvious when you look at the surroundings – it’s no longer a haven for fishermen, thanks to all the krait that migrated into the waters.

D’Alessio Seaboard is off the map, that nice little foggy area west of Lion’s Arch. Whether it retained its name or not is unknown but unlikely given the hate on White Mantle, and the misconception of Saul being evil seen during the War in Kryta.

There’s quite a lot of places that made comparison maps, though I don’t remember where beyond “on reddit.” (Edit: Ninja’d by Hjorje)

Pavees.7281:

Regarding menzies and the item called fate of menzies, it’s an obvious tell to what happened to menzies given it’s a skull on a stick similar to balthazar carrying the skull mentioned in other parts of the game(i know it isn’t the same skull). I believe menzies is dead to be honest since why put an item called that and it’s just a dead head tied to a stick on fire.

Presuming he wasn’t even dead in the first place. His entire force of the Shadow Army are “Nightmares” which are, by my observation at least, evil spirits. Nothing really said Menzies was alive in the first place.

And even if Menzies was alive and now no longer, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a threat, given the nature of souls in Guild Wars. Though honestly, I’d still say claiming a weapon’s name indicates Menzies was killed is a rather big stretch until we get other implications.

draxynnic.3719:

Narcemus.1348:

I just refused to admit it because of konig’s tone (arrogance on my part).

Which is essentially what set me off – that sort of thing is something I find quite frustrating, and while I try not to be inflammatory or demeaning in my language, when I’m frustrated with someone it can make me more careless with the way I present my points.

Last thing I’ll say on this subject here, but I suffer from this dilemma too on top of previous statements. Though I suspect everyone’s the same here.

Pavees.7281:

If you don’t care how you talk to people then why even bother talking to people. You can’t just talk to people without any concern for how you phrase it and then expect them to be rational in turn.

[…]

Also maybe just maybe if you know how you type or talk bugs more people then it should and you don’t care enough to fix it…ya that is a tad ego stroking because you feel you don’t have to do anything because you feel how you talk is perfect enough even if people say or feel otherwise.

You misunderstood, what I don’t care about is the fact that people would, irregardless of how carefully I word things, think I’m an egotistical kitten. Perhaps I’m just too blunt of a person. I don’t candycoat things for others.

And it’s not that I don’t feel how I talk is perfect enough, it’s that – as I have said in both my previous post and this one, no matter how much I focused on trying to keep people from thinking such of me, they still do (different people and different scenarios, included).

As I said in my previous post, if you actually read it all which I am honestly doubting, I outright stated that I’m far from knowing a lot and this extends to how well I write, word things, and so forth. The reason why I don’t care anymore is not out of arrogance. It’s out of surrender. I’ve given up the attempt to improve my wording so that people don’t misunderstand me, because people always have and, given the state of nature of communication on a whole, always will.

It is not ego or arrogance. It is giving up akittens finest. I threw my hands in the air and said “whatever, I give.” No different than what Narcemus did when he did what I said was over reaction – the “you’re right, I’m wrong” bit. Ironic, isn’t it.

Nor do I expect others to accept how I talk to them, never did – in my own mind at least, regardless of how it came out. And when did I ever say it’s not me? Hell, the entire point of my post is that it is my fault, just not in the way that people are blaming of me. My err is not in thinking I’m better than others, it’s in that I cannot communicate in such a way that I’m not considered full of myself. If I think I’m better than others in anything, it’s that I think I’m better at others in being bad at things. So if that makes me egotistical, fine, I’m egotistical in that I have few to no talents.

Hell, this entire conversation is full out proof for what I’m talking about, if you can’t even understand what I meant by me stopped trying to fix my wording because it just doesn’t change anything.

And yes, I was wrong on the Menzies thing, though that’s not really much of a reference in the game’s lore and is as much mention as Usoku gets in lore, and the point with the others remain.

Narcemus.1348:

And I have to say, whether or not you meant to demean, Konig, every word to me spoke as such, thus leading to further inflammation on the subject. Just saying.

Well, I apologize. Like I said, I say things rather bluntly. Sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s bad.

Thing is, there were common NPCs that had secondaries, such as Warmaster Tydus. who was a warrior/elementalist (well, lorewise or until Eye of the North where he was a ranger mechanically).

Furthermore, being Chosen wasn’t related to the gods, but the Flameseeker Prophecies – and the only explanation given is either being the ones who fulfill the prophecies and/or simply having a lot of magical talent.

Ascension, though dealing with the gods in Tyria, did not deal with the gods in Cantha where it was called Weh no Su (it’s actually the same thing, just different names and different means of achieving the status – the Canthan emperors had to become Weh no Su and were thus referred to as “Ascendant Emperor” from the previous “Lord Emperor”) and dealt with the Celestials. Ascension, in the end, is just unlocking the gift of True Sight – which is merely the ability to see things that are not fully part of the world of Tyria (be it the dimensional shifting of mursaat, or the hiding-from-mortal-eyes of spirits; I suspect both are actually the same and that the aspect is revisited in the norn storyline of Defend the Mists where you enter the Mists, but it’s just an alternatively colored Wayfarer/Hoelbrak that has a change of NPCs – perhaps also in A Light in the Darkness where there are some risen, the animals and the Spectral Weapons, which are capable of attacking you when not part of the vision’s purpose).

jheryn.8390:

You are not wrong Narcemus. And you are not overreacting. There is no real explanation for why rezzing is gone and it is completely understandable for you to want to know why. Some people can tell you this is why it is or this is what happened, but ultimately it is just their guess or interpretation of why it is no longer around.

I understand how you feel there are many bits of GW1 lore and mechanics that have been conveniently ignored. I have issues with some of them too. Until Anet addresses them, you have a right to your questions and opinions. Don’t let anyone tell you why you are right or wrong about things they have no explanation for other than their own guesses or speculations.

Just remember, they have a right to their opinions too. Even if they are sometimes tactless in pointing them out.

Narcemus.1348:

Thank you, at least someone cares. I’ll agree that the way I went about choosing to percieve lore may not have been correct, but kitten, the way that Konig and Drax demean me with every post. I can’t help but lashing back out at them and refuse my wrong in it. That post was more sarcasm at the way in which they seemed to perceive my opinion on the matter.

I just want to say this:

1. I never said Narcemus was wrong, except for the resurrection at the Concovation bit.
2. The over-reacting bit was in regards to Narcemus going “fine, I’m wrong” – Narcemus was over reacting in response to us disagreeing about how he was stating that just because it’s not mentioned, means that no one whatsoever gives any amount of care for it in-universe or even knows of its existence, which is a massive speculation.

I never EVER said why it is – only stated guesses as jheryn said – nor did I say that it shouldn’t be called into question. Just that he shouldn’t, to once more use his own wording, “choose not to believe it” (“it” being that resurrection happened in lore).

That has been my entire point from the beginning. That Narcemus, you shouldn’t be saying “I choose not to believe it happened” or believe that no one in lore gives a kitten just because we, the players, don’t see it.

There are, as jheryn and drax both said, many things not mentioned in the game. This doesn’t mean diddly squat for all the other topics as it stands, so why should it for resurrection? Naga, secondary professions, the Fissure of Woe, and Menzies are never once mentioned in GW2, so should that naturally mean that, like resurrection, I should choose that they all just got retconed out of the lore? That they “never really existed” like you (Narcemus) said for resurrection?

I’m not demeaning you – or at least not intending to – but by gods man, a lack of mention doesn’t mean that ArenaNet just kitten all over their lore nor does my disagreement with you mean “I’m right, you’re wrong, and you better kittening agree with me kitten it!”

Pavees.7281:

I personally think just because you are angry regarding the plot holes regarding resurrection between gw1 and gw2 didn’t give konig the right to be as disrespectful as he was. Yes you were wrong to go bout certain things(no disrespect sorry if it seems like it) but he shouldn’t even say he’s gonna call you “version 2” as a way to dismiss and disrespect you.

Seriously it’s game lore kon learn some restraint and also step away from the forums if you’re gonna get personal bout it. Don’t tell people to calm down, don’t tell them you’re gonna mock them with a name and don’t be so arrogant that you feel you can do this and be right bout it. it’s a game no reason for you to disrespect people over it.

Sorry if I seem disrespectful, but I meant no such thing.

It was an example to show how ridiculous that line of Narcemus’ post was. There was no disrespect – or respect, obviously – intended. I never even intended for the ridiculous nickname that was used for a ridiculous notion to stick; I wasn’t being arrogant either, unless trying to point out how someone claiming that a piece of lore “didn’t happen” is wrong would be arrogant.

But whatever, I’ve always had a problem of people thinking I’m a stuck up egotistical asswad, why should it ever stop? Wanna know what problem I have? It’s that I stopped giving a kitten about how people take what I write, because whether I give a kitten or not they take it to be the same way. Fun fact: I’m NOT egotistical. I’m NOT arrogant. I never am. People say I know a lot of lore? Bull kittening kitten. I know little of lore or other things in the long run, or at least that’s what I believe, but I know how to wiki things. I got nothing to be egotistical or arrogant about, so I’m sorry if I come off that way, it’s just how I word what I write and it’s not my own personality.

While it was something in lore to a degree, it hasn’t really been touched upon in GW2. The whole lore behind secondary professions has been people going to study a different school of magic than they typically use, allowing the use of two schools rather than one.

Why the practice stopped is anyone’s guess.

I think you’re way over reacting. Keep in mind one very very important thing:

You – nor we – don’t see everything that’s happening. So no one we see mentions it, doesn’t mean no one mentions it.

Golems have existed long before. The G.O.L.E.M. project seen in Eye of the North is just a boosting project to Oola’s pre-existing designs (which were likely based off of older golem designs) in order to better combat the destroyers.

Val’s just joking, I think…

In these cases, it’s actually that the singular and plural form are the same, sans humans. Charr, asura, norn, and sylvari can all be used in singular and plural forms.

If you’re unsure what the plural version is of a race, go to the official wiki’s category for NPCs of the race (seen at the bottom of each race entry or here for GWW and here for GW2W ).

That’s just how ArenaNet set it up – sylvari we were told specifically, but the rest were figured out via in-game dialogue and how developers say the names in interviews and other press releases. Krait, kodan, largos, grawl and skritt – and most other original named races – are all both plural and singular versions too.

I do hope you’re being sarcastic on your opinion of the original drafts for GW2’s plot.

And I think the Living Story is proving that, while we’re remaining in continental Tyria, we’re not solely focusing on Elder Dragons.

And you presume that you’ve been in situations where such discussions are relevant? Just because you don’t see it happen doesn’t mean it doesn’t – especially with how ArenaNet handles their lore inside the game, where 90% of it is buried, and half the lore isn’t even in the game itself.

As for your charr mention: they dislike magic, so it makes sense that they’d not consider it openly.

And you’re not simply pointing “out the need for some explanation on a subject that has just literally been left dangling” – I agree with that much. But instead what you’re doing, to use your own wording, is “choose not to believe it” – so with how you yourself said your view on the matter is, you are in fact not giving enough crap about both games’ lore, since you’re just avoiding an aspect of said lore.

That’s no different than Obsidian’s stance on GW1 lore being a separate canon than GW2 lore.

And it wasn’t terribly explained, it was just not a topic of explanation.

I really think you’re over exaggerating about GW2’s stance of resurrection. And of how “common” it was in GW1. I mean, in almost every case of GW1 where resurrection was mentioned, it required lot of energy (for example, the energy which Zhu Hanuku gives off upon defeat).

Just because it’s not mentioned doesn’t mean “no one gives a hoot” or that “no one has even TRIED to improve resurrection magic” – kitten, I mean, we can’t even say anyone but the best of the best even had the ability of using resurrection magic. The Convocation required using energies from defeating a powerful sea spirit turned flesh; the kurzick duels were overseered by the Redemptors who are top of the cultural food chain; resurrection shrines required constant maintainence (lore-wise, seems to have been dropped for/added on after post-Prophecies (iirc, development wise, pre-Searing was made after post-Searing); etc. etc.

Your commoners don’t ever mention resurrection, and in GW1 they died and stayed dead.

Maybe no one mentions it in GW2 because in GW1 it was such a rare thing that most people thought it unlikely to exist? Maybe no one mentions it in GW2 because it’s just not bloody relevant to them. GW2 is in an age where almost everyone has their backs against the proverbial wall – charr are sieged on all sides, norn were forced from their homes, humans are being pushed back, and syvlari wouldn’t know such existed through personal experience. Maybe no one mentions it because they’re more concerned about other things than trying to figure out why a field of magic had went out of practice or stopped working.

People fear death? Yeah, humans do. But charr and norn sure don’t (or at least not nearly as much), and the other races have better things to do than wonder about lost arts. Only the Durmand Proiry and asura would really care much, and the asura less so given their burial rituals of cremation and the belief that the soul joins the Eternal Alchemy (would be more of a punishment to bring an asura back to life if that’s truly so).

TL;DR You’re over reacting. Keep it up and I’m gonna call you Obsidian 2.0

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Define what wouldn’t count as “main races” – because I’d say the races like kodan, krait, largos, and tengu all surpass the outright called “minor races” (skritt, ogre, hylek, grawl, quaggan), and except for the jotun’s fall are still beneath the “elder races” (jotun, mursaat, seer, forgotten, dwarf).

I don’t understand how the krait are one of the “main races” – is this something from GW1? My impression as of right now is that the Hylek have more culture going on by far.

That was actually my point. The krait, tengu, etc. aren’t often considered a “main race” but they hold the culture, intelligence, tradition, numbers, and magic to put them on par with the five playable races – just as the kodan, tengu, and centaur do as well, with a possible largos should we ever see more of their population.

The krait aren’t a “main race” by most players’ standards, but at the same time they’re equivalent to them.

Or that console was stolen, skritt do like their shinies.

The Inquest were said to be a “recent group” by ArenaNet, so I doubt that they predate the asura’s surfacing, especially considering that the Inquest was formed partially because of the knowledge lost from said surfacing. They certainly are not over 250 years old.

“Inquest founders looked upon the amount of knowledge lost when Quora Sum was wiped out by the destroyers, and judged such a signal drop to be complete anathema to their purposes.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/That_Old_College_Try

So its either “The Inquest were hear” or “the skritt stole from Inquest.”

This is probably a better question to ask on http://guildwars2roleplayers.com/ than here in the lore forums.

I’m not a big rp’er, but I’d say “enough to make your character work without breaking canon” – everything else could simply be a case of your character not knowing about it.

A word of the wise: WoodenPotatoes videos (especially the discussion videos rather than the ones animated with unique art) are not the best source. In fact, I’d hardly call them a source at all. They’re a decent introduction and people (not me) seem to like his voice, but he mixes and melds theories and speculations with fact quite often (especially in his old videos at least), without any real differentiating of them in any way or form. And on top of that, I’ve seen something said completely wrong in almost every video of his I’ve watched – minor or major. They’re good, but not something to rely on solely.

As for a good place to learn lore? GWW has articles that are full and up-to-date as of GW1’s perspective of lore (some articles also including GW2’s perspective, but those are rare and few). Keep in mind that some things from GW1 has been proven “false legends” by GW2. Sadly, GW2W is severly lacking in lore articles, and some are also incorrect, but the blog posts that were put up and the language articles are worth reading.

Some links:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:History_of_Tyria
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Tales
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/New_Krytan

There are other articles, but they’re probably best read at a personal interest search or the like. If there’s a topic you want to know for help developing your character, feel free to ask.

@Rednik: The Mist (not Myst, that’s a game, a grand one though) War has been on my mind in being of two possibilities:

First, and sadly most likely, three alternative realities fighting each other in a war that they’re just presuming the other sides are pure evil. We know via the Infinity Ball storyline and A Light in the Darkness story step that the Mist connects/contains the various “possible futures,” so it wouldn’t be so hard to believe that said futures – or even pasts and presents – can access each other via the Mists.

Secondly, and more entertaining imo, is that they’re a war between Tyria, Dhuum/Menzies’ forces, and another force. To think they’re the remnants of the threat which pushed the gods off of the original human homeworld is an interesting notion, though, and somewhat possible – though, imo, unlikely given the whole charr/human/asura/sylvari/norn fighters.

@mercury: The Infinity Ball storyline is solely about alternate possible futures. It’s not alternate presents, which the term “alternate reality” is talking about.

Keep in mind that we don’t know the rules of the Mists fully, and by extension, the rules of possible futures. Though the Pale Tree tells us that the future is ever-changing, this doesn’t mean that the “old” possible futures simply cease to exist. For example, the Grand High Sovereign could have – either simultaneously or upon the result of his death – have had those steam creatures invade Lornar’s Pass. Just because the would-be Grand High Sovereign decides not to go that route, doesn’t mean that the route ceases to exist.

In the same manner, it could be possible for multiple possible futures to exist simultaneously – so while one future “stops to be,” that doesn’t mean that the other futures do, and those steam creatures could simply be coming from another possible future than the one we encountered – one where the Grand High Sovereign does exist, but doesn’t go through the portal himself.

It should be noted regarding these steam creatures that the portals they use are the same as the kind the Infinity Ball creates, and not like any other portal like the blue portals that lead into the Mists, or the green portals that lead into the Underworld. These portals are grayish and more electrical in looks, as can be seen here.

mercury ranique.2170:

So it looks like that there where humans in Cantha before there where humans in Tyria (continent), but where the humans in Tyria believe they where brought there by the 6 Gods through the mists, the Canthans don’t believe that (or so it seems).

Unless the Six Gods then took them from Orr to another place, south of Cantha like Jeff Grubb once said the human homeland may be at, and their time in Orr was so short that it was left undocumented in the timeline.

After all, the arrival of humans on continental Tyria and Elona in 205 BE has always been said to have been via ships and boats, not portals. There isn’t a single source that says “humans came to Orr and Elona via portals in 205 BE.” The closest we get is simply “humans were brought to the world at Orr” which gives no context, no timeframe, and many possibilities.

mercury ranique.2170:

The 6 Gods are powerfull entity’s wich have a more physical presence then real life gods. But they also seem weaker. These Gods are not all mighty.

Compared to other polytheistic faiths, they’re actually rather spot on. Capable of (presumably) creating life from basic elements (the gods are still atrributed for being the makers of humanity), coming from another realm of existence that governs the afterlife, unaging, extremely powerful but not unkillable, and able to reform the world as they see fit.

@Narcemus: By all indications, the world was either A) a twisted, nightmarish place with little to no seen inhabitants at first – so it’d really be little different than the Realm of Torment (hmmm, the Mists creates places that copy other pre-existing places… any bets on what the Realm of Torment was a copy of?), or alternatively (depending on the truth behind tale of the Forgotten being brought by the gods), in their starvation throws and the gods provided the means to help counter the corruption (via the Forgotten’s magic).

In either case, one being a desolate planet that could be remade and the other being a planet with a strong, albeit easily (for Forgotten) counterable, threat, it isn’t all that bad in the long run.

(Back to general topic)

There’s really no means of telling what this possible “catastrophe” was, just that it made Dwayna looking elsewhere for a home of humanity. Given its Dwayna, it could be a number of things…

It could have been a simple constant state of unrest and war, as Dwayna’s said to have been searching for a paradise – meaning that the beginning of the search was simply looking for a refuge from conflict, or a desire to go back to the beginning (pressing the restart button without wiping the slate clean, so to speak). If this is the case, then Balthazar (and perhaps Dhuum) following through was probably not according to plan. After all, it seems only Dwayna and Melandru (though I suspect that Lyssa did too, but wasn’t part of the original six gods that came from the other world given her origins are never said in human legends) were striving for peace.

It could have been that there was a conflict in which regardless of who won it, the world became uninhabitable for humanity, even with the terraforming efforts of the gods (or alternatively, that the efforts would take too long for humanity to withstand). Personally, this is my theory – an ended (or mostly ended) conflict that left the Six having to flee anyways, perhaps even a civil war or an unheaval of an older generation of gods (the former concept given Menzies and Balthazar carrying his father’s head; the latter concept given Arachnia and the multiple, unnamed, ancient insectoid gods, all dead).

It could also be that the world ran out of resources or simply ran through its natural lifespan – the sun of the world exploding (or imploding), or the world entering an equivalent of an ice age, world flooding, something akin to After Earth, etc. (just, ya know, a world wide unstoppable natural/magical disaster).

Or lastly, my second preferred theory: invasion. There’s a lot of hostile forces out there in the Mists, the most common of which being demons – and they come in large varieties (from torment demons that thrive on chaos, to trickster demons who hate the living, or even imps that feed on magic much like Elder Dragons). It’s not unfathomable that the old world got invaded by an unknown and unexpected force. There was a lot of concept art for Utopia for a demonic army that seemed to hold ties to Menzies, but Menzies himself and his forces never dealt with demons except via the alliance with Abaddon and Dhuum (and even then, Dhuum’s the only one whose army was actual demons; Abaddon simply allied with the torment demons, it seems to me, no different than he did with Dhuum and Menzies). It wouldn’t surprise me that, given the little known of Utopia, finding this history of humanity out was the original plot of the second three chapters (ArenaNet’s original plan was to have the story of Guild Wars shown in sets of 3, each chapter being independent but linked in these trilogies; Utopia would have started the second set, but they went for Elder Dragons instead (though originally, and thank god they went against it, the Elder Dragons were to be angels and demons passing judgment on the world ._.).

You don’t “remember”? You should probably refresh your memory before making such claims then, Narcemus. Looking up wiki articles isn’t so hard, especially when you’re given a specific situation.

Alright, here, I’ll show you all off-my-head resurrection mentions in lore in the game, excluding the debatable PvP related ones or the Tutorial related ones (which were only in Factions and Nightfall).

“Zhu Hanuku’s death will release a large burst of energy, which we will harness and use to raise our fallen Champions. The sea that was, lends us its power to help facilitate this rebirth.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elder_Cleo

“Three of us will die today. I do not fear it. The spirit of the crab is strong in me, and besides, I have died and been reborn many times in this life.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Daeman

“[…] In ancient times, these duels resulted in the final death of the loser. Of course, the Redemptors long ago determined that this uncivilized behavior was more fitting of those heathen Luxons, and the Council of Nobles agreed. Thus, it is now law to resurrect those who fall in duels.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Duel_Master_Vaughn

“Many people believe that maintaining a resurrection shrine and seeing to it that people get a second chance at life is supposed to be an inspirational and ennobling experience. I’m not one of those people.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lina_the_Healer

Their souls will be reaped upon one of the five Bloodstones, just as the Chosen you witnessed being slaughtered in the Maguuma Jungle. If this happens, no magic on this world or any other will bring them back."
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Dragon%27s_Lair_%28cinematics%29

“Should he seize control of the Underworld, Dhuum’s reign will be brutal and uncompromising, for he is the Final Death, and he does not tolerate resurrections or the undead.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Nightman_Cometh

_ “Remember all those times we were dying and I was the only one left standing but I used my signet on Alesia instead of you only to have her die while attempting to restore Lina’s life? Yeah, good times. Good times.” _
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reyna – a lampshade on the henchmen AI, but the signet refers to Resurrection Signet.

“Unless we all die trying… But that’s never stopped us before.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Epilogue – another lampshade on henchmen AI and gameplay, but still lore

There’s about a dozen more on top of the amount of the above related solely to PvP, explained in open dialogue which would at least imply being of lore, but as said is debatable due to the lack-of-lore in PvP.

Define what wouldn’t count as “main races” – because I’d say the races like kodan, krait, largos, and tengu all surpass the outright called “minor races” (skritt, ogre, hylek, grawl, quaggan), and except for the jotun’s fall are still beneath the “elder races” (jotun, mursaat, seer, forgotten, dwarf).

Even Kilroy had multiple goals. So he just became more singleminded, but kept his battletactics.

More or less, however given the fact that Kilroy seem to have a tomb, it seems that he died before becoming stone.

Keep in mind that the ruins’ origins are unknown to the general asuran population. Given all the previously said and this fact, my theory is that it was part of an asuran team – or group of teams – that surfaced in their own “working independently” kind of concept, and were soon enough either wiped out or forced to retreat and never mentioned a “surface” world – or did and were thought insane by a race that didn’t know a thing like a “sky” could possibly exist.

Ascalonians are not viewed as the bad guys, imo. The charr hate them, but that’s not making them bad guys – just a hatred among two “not bad guys” (I wouldn’t call either side “good” mind you).

Ascalonian ghosts however, are more of victims that are forced against their will to be evil. Adelbern’s curse on them makes them view every race as a charr, and they are all forced to share Adelbern’s immense insane hatred for charr – effectively making every single ghost out there (except Necromancer Bria who broke free of the curse somehow) an insane extremist racist who’ll fight to the death to reclaim “their” land.

lordkrall.7241:

Actually no, you can see the BLOOD LEGION homeland on the map.
We also know that the Flame Legion homelands seems to be Fireheart Rise.
We don’t however have any information about where the rest of the legion have their homelands. (Although Iron Legion seems to have claimed Ascalon as their base of operations at the moment).

We also have no information about which (if any) race inhabited Ascalon before the Charr came there. All we know is that the Charr took the lands sometime before year 100 BE. And the fact that they took the land does not have to mean they actually invaded and occupied it from another race. It could have been a no mans land before the Charr came.

Flame Legion don’t have homelands. They were exiled into the Blazeridge Steppes and lost their lands to the other three legions, and they just made an entrenchment in Fireheart Rise upon their return (though the Citadel of Flame may be Hrangmer – hard to tell, and somewhat unlikely).

As for who inhabited Ascalon – we know that grawl did. And it seems based on Kathanrax and Edge of Destiny, that the dwarves were in Ascalon and the now-called Blood Legion Homelands (that’s just charr territory, not where they are from – as Erukk said they came from east of the Blazeridge, per that line, and effectively made an n shape conquest around the Blazeridge Mountains – likely due to the Forgotten’s presence there). The novel mentions an underground dwarven village that would be placed around underneath Fields of Ruin (roughly), and with a dwarven hero who held back charr in the Blood Legion/Charr Homelands, it seems that the dwarves lived there before the Shiverpeaks – which would, in turn, explain how the jotun ruled all of the Shiverpeaks in the past, yet not hold conflict with the dwarves. The jotun’s ruling were likely before the dwarves lived in the Shiverpeaks – before they were displaced there like the grawl were.

mercury ranique.2170:

I think you asume an connection to Asura or Inquest due to the name being simular to Rata Sum?? That might be a wild assumption.

Except for the fact that it is explicitly stated in game to be Asuran.

mercury ranique.2170:

I don’t have time to go there to look for evidence myself at the moment but I will do to to see if there is any hard evidence that it is asuran. The wiki isn’t always right so just cause it is there doesn’t make it so.

I looked into it deeply, it is asuran.

Explorer Cryptcutter offers and “Early Asuran Relief Rubbing” (no wiki page, sadly) which has an inscription saying that it dates back to when Orr was still thriving – e.g., before the asura surfaced in Eye of the North. And for the heart activity itself, you can dig up “Asuran Relics” (again, no wiki page sadly). There is, as LotKrotan mentioned, a Priory scholar suggesting an old Dwarven dialect, but it may turn out to be old Asuran – that whole “half mathematical, half structured” language.

But these ruins interestingly match the ruins of GW1, and there’s also another set of ruins within Lightfoot Passage of the same design, near the vista.

Truth be told, Rata Pten is practically full out proof that the asura were on the surface before Eye of the North – when and why they left is unknown, but this is heavy evidence to support Rata Sum and the other Tarnished Coast ruins being asuran structures that were abandoned. This in turn explains why the ruins in the Tarnished Coast used the same design as the structures in the Central Transfer Chamber, structures outright confirmed to be asuran, and fits in with Linsey Murdock’s sharing of Jeff Grubb’s statement that the ruins once belonged to a magical race.

chris the concerer.2974:

this is different because the strongest elder dragon is meant to be he dragon alone this is there whole army with all minions like i said not just the dragon alone on the other thread they are talking about how they corrupt not the actual fighting force with all elements and the dragon combined like i said earlier

The Elder Dragon’s minions are part of the Elder Dragon. The strongest ED thread did not exclude minions.

If two ED were to war it out, they’d be trying to corrupt the other dragon’s minions (as said by Erukk, dragon minions are susceptible to other dragons’ corruption). So the only way that this wouldn’t occur is when you have a dragon who’s minions are not the kind that the other would want to corrupt (the Elder Dragons seem to hold a preference for how to corrupt – e.g., Primordus likes to meld lava and stone together in pools or “eggs”; Jormag likes to use living beings and tempt them into serving him of their own free will, or uses corpses like Zhaitan does; Kralkatorrik corrupts anything that has a phsyical presence) – under which, Primordus and Jormag fighting each other wouldn’t (probably?) go after the others’ minions to corrupt them.

But in the end, as Erukk said, it is impossible to know. If one’s not going about corrupting the other’s minions, it all depends on how many minions they have, how fast they can replenish, and how much magic they’ve consumed, as well as how strong the individual dragons and minions are – and they all hold variables in these cases, with no point of comparison.

dunnberry.2964:

That depends on if the dragon/champions are there or not…because it has been said minions have clashed with each other I think specifically branded and risen?

We’re told that they would, but we’ve never actually seen such happen.

The closest ED minion activity there’s been has been Destroyer and Risen. Excluding the Crucible of Eternity and Vexa’s lab (in the latter, they don’t clakitten all, in the former mechanics – or perhaps Alpha’s control? – prevents them from doing so).

Kenage Achalarus.4276:

It wouldent suprise me if Dhumm is awakend and breaking free into the living world. look at the portals of what usto be Temple of Ages now its the Godlost Swamp. we are seeing Axes and shades and of coarse Shadow Behmoth. i have a feeling we will be seeing dhumm

Godslost Swamp has shown to hold little to nothing in relation to Dhuum. Those portals are there because of the GW1 players constantly going into the Underworld and Fissure of Woe from the Temple of the Ages.

Aatxes were never related to Dhuum, either. They’re natural inhabitants of the Underworld. And based on what I could find, it seems that Nightmares (Aatxes, Coldfire Nights, Fog Nightmares, Shadow Army, etc. from GW1 and Aatxes, Shades, and Shadow Behemoth from GW2) are simply very hostile/evil spirits.

Though the large amount of Nightmares coming from the Underworld – not just in Godslost Swamp but also Blackroot Cut and Reaper’s Gate – does give an indication that Grenth’s forces may not have adequate control over the Underworld.

The High Priestess in Arah also mentions that Lyssa was killed by Zhaitan, but the Risen are very well known (or should be) for their psychological warfare, consisting of lies, trickery, and empty promises.

We do know that the Elder Dragons can reach into the Mists, btw. Jormag does with his minions, and it’s possible that Kralkatorrik is as well what with two portals to the Mists in the Dragonbrand (Tomb of Drascir and Tomb of the Primeval Kings). Zhaitan may too, given the Door of Komalie’s unknown state.

As for the gods’ location – what is known is that they are not on the world Tyria, nor in the Mists directly. This indicates that – if they even still exist – that they are on another world.

In the end, though possible, it is unlikely that the Lyssa priestesses (High and temple) are telling the truth. It would be a neat twist to see that the priestesses are telling the truth, imo, however on the flip side this means that Zhaitan was killed after absorbing a god’s power which is pretty much impossible because 1) too weak for being an Elder Dragon backed by a god’s power and 2) a god’s power cannot be destroyed and thus, when Zhaitan was killed, if he had a god’s power consumed then that power would have manifested and threaten to destroy everything like what happened when Abaddon was killed at the end of Nightfall – without a container, a god’s power goes rampant and effectively becomes a very powerful nuke.

So you want everything from Prophecies to be undone?

The Stone Summit, those who had enslaved the dredge, had lost the war they caused. They were nearly annihilated and the remnants exiled to the Far Shiverpeaks where then their last religious leader, Duncan the Black, was killed off (along with even more of their forces). After which, what remained made peace with Deldrimor – a full out surrender.

Even if they make another appearance, you can bet your granny’s kitten that they won’t be going back to how they were in Prophecies. If you want to see that, it’s best to just buy GW1.

And of course, you’re presuming that they’ll even survive in large enough numbers. The civil war did a huge toll on the race, and then there’s the fact that they’ve been fighting Primordus and his minions for 200-250 years (all dwarves underwent the rite to turn to stone within 50 years, starting from 1078 AE) and they had a hard time against the Great Destroyer. Not only that, but their mentality as of turning to stone is pretty much just going leeroy jenkins on the forces – charging head first and fighting til the end.

Obsidian.1328:

Well yeah, there’s a mountain of material never mentioned in Guild Wars. Irregardless, a source no longer linkable doesn’t mean that it is so either. Perhaps we should all imagine that the giant hole at Divinity’s Reach is still the Canthan Quarter?

It was the Canthan (and arts) District, even in lore.

And saying what you did is basically the same as saying “well, it was said on a post by a dev in Guru2, but when the site changed a while back, the posts got removed so it’s no longer applicable” – because that also happened, and the only way we got to preserve it was via screenshots – or like saying “it was in an interview, but the interview was taken down by the interviewer so it’s no longer applicable.”

Lore doesn’t change just because a website goes down or not.

Obsidian.1328:

Well…if currently the humans are said to not be responsible for the death of the Khan-Ur…and at one point in the past it said they were…that’s pretty much “current lore trumping old lore.”

You don’t seem to comprehend. The Ecology of the Charr is older than the site’s statement. The “new lore” would be that humans did it, the “old lore” being that it was unknown. It isn’t “currently the humans are said not to responsible” (unless you can provide a source for something I’ve yet to see), so unless you have such a source the current lore that trumps the old lore is that the humans were revealed to be the culprits.

In short: The new lore is that humans assassinated the Khan-Ur.

Obsidian.1328:

“…lore that is no longer source-able but is still the case…” -that would have carried some weight had it existed as part of the original story, but it was something they added briefly then took away. The Ranger “Pet Attribute Bonus” used to be called “Empathy” during the beta’s, should I /rage whenever someone doesn’t call it that?

No one said anything about raging, lose the attitude buddy.

The original story is always added upon, and by the end of the day what you’re saying is “if I cannot see it, it didn’t happen!” That’s a huge load of self-denial there.

Obsidian.1328:

And the misleading/general thing…you’re reaching there. But if it makes you feel better then yeah, you have a pretty solid case on this one…I should have specified east of the Blazeridge. My apologies all around. /rollseyes

You don’t have to get snarky with me. I’ve seen FAR too many people take things for granted from forum posters or WP potatoes that was said in a specific “this is correct” manner – like how you worded your original post – and end up being wrong about it.

It’s an old habit to make sure people don’t misunderstand.

ArenaNet explicitly stated themselves that they wrote out the dwarves in the way they did so as to diverge away from standard fantasy tropes, and in turn give an explanation for why dwarves are not – and will not – be a playable race. I’m not “jumping on dwarf threads so viciously” so much as saying what ArenaNet has.

If they return – and I hold no doubt that they will if we go into the Depths of Tyria – they will only do so as NPCs, and not as a playable race. ArenaNet has said they hold no interest in doing so, for the same reasons why they wanted sylvari to be as plant-like as they could be, rather than just another “elf” race.

And I kind of doubt that you’d consider Jeff Grubb, one of the two continuity writers at ArenaNet, responding to a question specifically about the dwarves being playable as a “offhanded quote, from a lone dev.”

They’re not named “tentacled” – the DSD’s only known minions would be water that was twisted into tentacle creatures.

Also, be careful with wooden potatoes’ videos. He has a tendency to mix theory with fact.

All you need to know of Dhuum – and then here’s some more.

Dhuum was more than just “unjust” – he literally hunted down those who “cheated death,” which, by the sounds of things, included not just the undead and those resurrected, but those who escaped near fatal situations. And based on the Reaper of the Chaos Plain’s description of him during the quest Don’t Fear the Reapers, it sounds like Dhuum even made souls themselves cease to be – though this is just speculation and theorycrafting.

It should be noted on top of what Neilos said that the Seven Reapers were once mortals and were rewarded into immortality as thanks for aiding Grenth, thus becoming his avatars. Furthermore, after Dhuum freeing himself from his imprisonment and being re-imprisoned, he repeatedly broke free and was subsequently put back in place. As such, whether or not he is still imprisoned is a state of unknown, but personally? I suspect he’s free.

The large ships were featured in Edge of Destiny and, iirc, described to have oars. So we just don’t see them (either an oversight by ArenaNet, or it’d be #1 of what JohnLShannonhouse said).

If you want to get technical, the term “Khan-Ur” was never mentioned in Guild Wars lore, but was in GW2 lore. Irregardless, even if the source is no longer linkable (except via some internet history database), doesn’t mean that it isn’t so.

And I’m sorry, but by my own convictions, it is true – the GW2 website comes post-The Ecology of the Charr, so how does my “self-confessed proponent” of current lore trumping old lore (this is not explicitly true, by the way) counter any of that?

Furthermore, I didn’t say diddly squat about charr elementalists. The mention of Elementalists using the Destruction school of magic was an example – irrelevant to charr elementalists specifically – of lore that is no longer source-able but still the case thanks to the same situation of ArenaNet reworking their main site between the time of revealing Guild Wars 2 information and the game’s actual release.

Saying the Blazeridge Mountains isn’t really being “general” – it’s being misleading, since they never controlled the mountains. You could have said “east of Ascalon” if you wanted to be “general.”

Actually, it was said on the main site back when it actually gave lore that humans did assassinate the Khan-Ur. The Ecology of the Charr didn’t mention the Khan-Ur’s killer, but it was eventually said to be humans.

Sadly, that is one of the things lost as a source when ArenaNet decided to dumb-down the main site’s race and profession pages. Another thing to note being that Elementalists utilize the Destruction school of magic.

Also, it’s not the Blazeridge Mountains that were charr homelands, but east of the mountains.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Keep in mind that that group of grawl has been present since launch. While their story may have been expanded slightly due to the proximity of the Lion’s Arch refugee camp, at the end of the day they are just another group among the many, many NPCs whose sole purpose is to fill the city and give it some flavor. I don’t think there will be any more changes to them.

No they weren’t. They were refugees displaced by the Molten Alliance.

If they’ve been around since launch, they weren’t in Lion’s Arch until February.

Firstly, there are not six Elder Dragons on continental Tyria.

There were three, before awakening. Possibly 4.

We don’t know where Mordremoth is, though it’s implied that he’s from the Maguuma Jungle.

The Deep Sea Dragon is somewhere in the Unending Ocean – the furthest from Tyria of the six.

Jormag is to the far north, having woken up near/in the arctic seas, which is north of continental Tyria.

Now, to answer the question " why would they only be there not all over" – the answer is simple: The Bloodstones. Basically, the history of the bloodstones is that when the Elder Dragons were last awake, the seers took all uncorrupted magic in the world and placed it within a big gigantic rock. The Elder Dragons seek and consume magic, it’s what keeps them active, so they would naturally begin scouring the world for the last bit of magic in the world – this giant stone. This would, in turn, lead them towards Tyria.

Then we have Glint whom, thanks to the Forgotten, was freed from Kralkatorrik’s control and hid the races that remained. The Elder Dragon’s secondary source of food other than pure raw magic is living beings, supposedly at least – and I would presume such upon the statement that Oola makes: “We are all a part of the Eternal Alchemy, and as such, our very beings embody magic.”

Obviously, they never found the Bloodstone, they likely went into hibernation from starvation while looking for it. This would naturally place them near Tyria if not within. And upon awakening, where is most of the magic on the world going to be? That’s right – Tyria. So while three/four started out there, one (Jormag) is heading there. However, we have 0 indication of where the DSD, Primordus, Kralkatorrik, and Mordremoth are at the moment.

Now, as to the postulation of other Elder Dragons – there’s only ever been an indication or implication of one other. An Elder Dragon in Cantha. This is only really given through Kuunavang, whom is only indicated upon one interview to possibly be the same as Glint – that is, an Elder Dragon’s champion. The exact wording:

@Narcemus: Actually, the DSD can be further than just between continental Tyria/Elona and Cantha. The Unending Ocean is – for all we know – far larger than just the Clashing Seas (the body of water between Tyria/Elona and Cantha, if not just simply another name for the Unending Ocean).

Kralkatorrik seems to be less of “brute strength,” but rather in physical. But that’s just looking at how they corrupt – because it’s never really shown Jormag’s more physical prowess himself (if he can take out thousands of norn in one sweep – should those skaalds be truthful which I doubt given the norn’s individualness – I doubt he’s all that weak physically).

If any dragon were to be “brute strength” – I’d say Primordus and his destroyers are. They go about with pure force and little more. Kralkatorrik in combat seemed to me to be more… hard to say, but not brute force by any means.

But if one’s looking at the minions – well, ice is clearly weaker than crystal, so it seems obvious that icebrood would be easily beaten down by branded in a contest of strength – though branded (and Kralkatorrik) seem to have a wider variety of elemental magic than the others.

Kind of makes me wonder if Kralkatorrik could be considered the elementalist of the Elder Dragons (with Zhaitan the Necromancer and Jormag the Mesmer). He uses rock, crystal, lightning, plasma (fire-like), and wind in different means.

I never meant that non-charr engineers exclude the steam and clockwork technology of the charr, but rather that they have their own variations of it. Whether it’s in looks, or in what’s made of it, each race’s engineer’s turrets and the like would look different, despite the game utilizing the same models for all.

Same way that each nameless mook isn’t really a clone of all the other nameless mooks of the group.

Stalkers aren’t lions. They’re lynxes.

And yes, there’s lions in Elona. Kourna, specifically.

ArenaNet turned them to stone as a means of writing them out of the lore. They might come back as NPCs, but they won’t be returning to flesh if that’s what you mean by a ritual. Now they’re just living stone eternally battling Primordus.

That’s the million dollar question, Narcemus. Other than the developer’s standpoint of wanting to remove death and resurrection since that reduced the quality of story-forced deaths (which itself lost its quality by the sheer amount Anet made), there’s no explanation for this.

But that doesn’t make it a retcon. It’s just one of the unexplained mysteries of what happened between GW1 and GW2. The thing is, we have a viable possible explanation to it. Two in fact. (Elaboration: Possibility 1, Dhuum returned and prevents resurrection; possibility 2, Grenth distancing himself with the other gods has caused resurrection to be unavailable – both assume that the gods’ active interaction for resurrection is required)

And though my memory may be off, I’m pretty sure there’s a historian which mentions resurrection in the open world as a lost art.

Technically, they are homeless.

I suspect that they’ll be settling that little corner of Lion’s Arch, and being the first grawl to live in that multi-racial city. Just like there’s a small quaggan village and some skritt living in LA, now there are grawl.

And the Consortium didn’t abandon the grawl – the grawl refused the Consortium’s help… well, would have. It was a mutual lack of help.

If there were enough monks who were capable of resurrections, sure, perhaps.

But ask yourself this: were there?

And keep in mind that the biggest death numbers, caused by the Affliction in Cantha, had the killed bodies’ mutated into Afflicted. So there was no body to use for resurrecting.

It seems to me that resurrection is a rather rare and very difficult magic that just simply wasn’t available everywhere. Let alone for everyone. You say it was “so easy” – but what if it wasn’t? I mean, sure, every player can use Resurrection Signet, but in lore Signets are symbols/rings imbued with magic – so such things aren’t available for everyone.Then aside form that, you have one Ritualist skill, one Paragon skill, and a handful of Monk skills. And don’t expect for every Ritualist to know Flesh of my Flesh (which sounds self-sacrificing overall) and for every Paragon to have a Signet of Return.

“I mean, if I lived in a world where people were resurrected all the time,”

Another fallicious assumption on your part – you say it was “so easy” and that folks were resurrected “all the time” but… we never actually see such implied in lore itself. You’re taking mechanics – the fact that players can resurrect at any time from the usage of about 10 skills, and that any player can get at least one of said skills – as lore. And this is skewing your view on said lore of resurrection.

Neither interview you linked was what I was referring to. It was an interview with Ree, iirc, and there was specific mention of sylvari using biodegradable materials rather than liquid fuel like the charr would for, as an example, flamethrowers. It may not have been “biodegradable” but it did mention that the sylvari use an alternative fuel source for flamethrowers (at least?) than the charr or asura do.

Sadly, it’s been so long I’m unsure where this interview was at.

Steam and clockwork tech is indeed new to Tyria, but the concept of engineers themselves are not. What engineers are today were certainly made mainstream by charr, but engineers – including combat ones – existed beforehand. They just weren’t really capable of defending themselves. Their focus, and probably sole job, was to man the siege weaponry.

The karka you’re expecting is likely the Karka Queen, which iirc, doesn’t show until June 5th?

Anyways, sclerite is more or less a kind of shell for aquatic invertebrate.

@OP: Why does Flame Legion=Elementalist to you? They may use fire magic mostly, but even the Flame Legion hold tech users (even before the Molten Alliance, even if it was only in the form of Igniters). And why would Elementalists, who could use water air and earth magic, be excluded from charr society and not necromancy, mesmerism, thieves, rangers, and guardians? By your question, that’s what you’re presuming, at least.

As others have said, they look down on magic, but they’re practical. They realize its worth and while they don’t like magic users and are stereotypically untrustworthy of them, they don’t exclude them.

Gandarel.5091:

Amongst the charr, the weaks shall die. Guardians serve the purpose of defending allies, but by charr standards, if you can’t take care for yourself, you will be outcasted or left to die.

There might be some, because guardians can fight well, but charr guardians aren’t the regular guardians.

Wrong. It’s not “the weak shall die” – it’s “the ineffective in teamwork are most susceptible to dying on the field” – there’s still a place, many of them, in charr society for the physically weak (such as desk work).

The charr do NOT outcast the weak. They may leer them for being so, but they won’t be simply “left out to die.” And guardians are not a “protect the weak” profession, they’re a “protect others with magic empowered by one’s faith” – to charr, they’re a “protect your warband” profession and their faith comes from trust in their warband. Warbands are immensely important to the charr – both on the battlefield and not. If you lose your warband, then you’re considered an outcast of sorts by many – but still not left to die, just not trusted outright (especially when you’re the sole survivor of a battle – you’ll be questioned whether you ran away to survive or not).

While its true that Guardians are the least common – lorewise at least – of charr professions, it is not for the reasons you mentioned. It’s because it’s 1) a magic profession and 2) based on faith (something that’s an iffy topic for charr, due to its religious connotations).

The only Am Fah assassin that comes to mind that left Cantha would be Zenmai. But storywise, she’s never mentioned as having gone to Tyria and in the end she seems to have possibly remained in Cantha with Winds of Change. A quick wiki search yielded no mention, but if it was mentioned with GW2, it won’t necessarily be on the wikis yet (GW2W is still missing a lot of information, especially in the realm of unique NPCs, dialogues, and lore). The closest you really get is the Plague Idol item.