Guild Wars 2

Short answer: Para/Sin – no; Derv – unlikely; Rit – possible

The Paragon and Assassin have effectively become the Guardian and Thief, they’re in the game already in both lore and game but with a name change.

Dervish, as has been said, is solely focused on god-worship. Seeing a charr dervish? That just sounds silly and blasphemous. And if you spent enough time in the Black Citadel, you’d know what the charr did to any god-revering charr.

They want to kill him, proclaiming him as Flame Legion. Basic witch hunt nonsense.

And the other races? Less lethal but equally silly. Only humans should have dervishes, and if you think about it, what made a dervish such in mechanics is either a PBAoE buff-focused guardian (since enchantments became buffs) and human racial skills. Just give the other four gods an avatar skill that’s more avatar like than Grenth’s and Melandru and give some professions a scythe and that’s probably the closest you’ll get to dervish in mechanics. The niche of the profession is just too narrow, imo, to work out as a 9th profession.

Though dervish NPCs? That’s a possibility.

Come to Ritualist – an issue it has is that, mechanically, it has been usurped by the engineer with its aesthetic elements merging into guardian and necromancer (the former more of a player opinion while the later is more apparent even from a lore standpoint – see other thread on the Ritualists and the mention of Priestess Rhie). If it returns – and IMO, it very much can – it would need a full out mechanical overhaul.

However, there’s still the snag it runs into as being a Cantha-centric profession. As pointed out in said other thread, the teachings of Ritualism never left Cantha, even though Ritualist adventurers did. There was next to no adaptation – except possibly into the Guardian and/or Necromancer – into other lands. And Cantha is a human-only (so we’re informed) land. There’d be no reason why there’d be a charr, asura, or sylvari ritualist (one can get by with norn as being a shaman profession to them, since a lot of the shaman NPCs summon spiritual allies).

In the end, I don’t see a new profession coming about from the old two left, and at best I only see a new soldier profession coming about in order to make it even at 3-3-3 for armor rating.

jheryn.8390:

I see necros as manipulating the undead corpses and corrupted spirits for their ends and the ritualists (as in GW1) could be manipulating the more benign spirits and magics stemming from the mists. Yes necros have minions, but I am sure it would not be that complicated to differentiate spirits from undead. As someone mentioned above. Turrets certainly do nothing to body block as spirits did.

What constitutes a “corrupted spirit”? Why such a term? Why would heroes deal with something that, by term usage, implies evil? Necromancers are “dark” but not “evil” in the least – not by default, at least.

Similarly, why would ritualists solely deal with benign? And even if you think that – you’re wrong. There are multiple quests in GW1 (Shackled Spirits, Power Surge, and Haunted for three) where ritualists deal with hostile spirits, be it trapping, soothing, or using them. Even some of the skill names – Pain, Anguish, and Destruction(to name a few) – show hostility from the spirits. The quest Haunted actually shows, albeit indirectly, that the spirits summoned by ritualists have names which reflect their own emotions and, in turn, their state of being benign – or in most cases, lack of.

Spirits called “Sorrow” are full of such and spread such; Spirits called “Pain” are full of such and spread such; etc.

And don’t forget the Envoys – they’re bound by the Oracle of the Mists (in GW1, this is Suun) and are the souls of criminals who’ve done great terrible deeds. I highly doubt you’d call Shiro Tagachi a “benign spirit,” yet he was one such spirit summoned by a ritualist.

As for body-blocking spirits/turrets… keep in mind that Guild Wars 2 has no body blocking unless you enable it so you don’t go running out of melee range. Even if spirits were brought into the game somehow for a ritualist’s minions, it would not be body blocking. And regarding differentiating spirits from undead – it’s more of differentiating function of the minions. Illusions are very weak, numerous yet limited at a single time, and can all be manually destroyed; turrets are stationary but indefinite in time and special skill usage; spirit weapons are on a timer; necro minions are weak but not as so as illusions, indefinite, with mixed amount of special skill usage, and pets are stronger but limited to only one.

What would spirits have to make them unique from those?

Without things related to it to figure out from, it’s near impossible to tell. One could go how Mordremoth is akin to Mordred and sylvari hold Arthurian references, and Jormag could come from norse mythology (Jormungandr) and norn hold norse references too, and use such to argue looking at krait or largos for a possible rl reference point to seek out possible names – doing such would point us to Arabic more or less.

However asura lack latin/roman references (they went to charr), and charr lack anything indonesian-like to fit Kralkatorrik, so that fails.

And without any in-game references or possibilities, you’re basically left with endless possibilities.

The name can end up being “Ph’nglui” for all we can care to guess.

I’ve always suspected that it was a “state of the body” thing – so when a body had to be temporarily abandoned, such as with Rurik and Saidra, the body would pass its “expatriation date” so to speak, and thus be unable to be resurrected.

Then when you slap on the need of magic to resurrect, you’re reduced further as magic wasn’t something to be used triffly outside of Orr – it required years of practice to master except for the talented ones like Cynn, the PCs, and (supposedly) Gwen.

(P.S., there’s another mention of resurrection outside of the lore-questionable PvP and dealings with Dhuumy-boy)

By the end of Winds of Change, the two factions were taken over (partially, at least) by individuals who were willing to look past their old hatred of each other and see the government for their good and dark sides. I think that the two groups – both Am Fah (who were the more slum hoodlum kind of gang) and the Jade Brotherhood (who were, by definition, nobles-gone-rogue – it was the Jade Brotherhood, not the Am Fah, who had briberies in the Ministry btw, Neilos) – could possibly have joined together in some anti-hero resistance group come Emperor Usoku.

If that’s the case, I doubt that they would have fled with refugees. They likely would have helped the refugees fled, but they would have likely remained except for anyone who were sailing ships or going with family.

Alternatively, if those two remained as separate criminal organizations and not becoming rebellious, then we have to keep in mind the mentality even they had which was shared with the Ministry of Purity and later Usoku. To quote one Am Fah member who insulted even Canthan PCs with this (most likely due to spending, storywise, a seeming 7 years abroad):

“You’ve made a mistake by coming here. These are not your lands, and these are not your affairs.”

Like the MoP and Usoku, the Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood showed signs – while still criminals, mind you – of being very xenophobic as well. Add this to their tendency to fight to the death, as shown by the second-to-last known leaders Reisen and Jeijou among others, it seems unlikely that they would flee Cantha unless absolutely necessary or forced upon them.

Add all this to the overall lack of mention about them in GW2, I would say: no, they’re not likely to be in Kryta in some form.

@Lokhiet: I always knew the Dwayna, Lyssa, Balthazar, and Logan statues, but I never realized the largos or norn ones. Nice find there.

@Gandarel: Compare the images Lokhiet linked to the loading screen, he’s got them correct. The Dwayna one is definitely a modified version and could possibly be an unknown Dwayna/Melandru statue concept art (there were at least two versions of the Balthazar one, so there may have been more of the others too), but the left one is definitely Lyssa as well.

@Narcemus: Technically, they can’t be found in the game – they’re just re-used concept art designs. But even those versions of the god statues are unique unto the loading screen. Though I suppose the Dwayna and Lyssa statues could have just been put into some cliff, enlarged like the Orr temple ones.

Lore-wise, each engineer has different looking tools. It was said in an interview a long while back (when engineers were revealed) that each race would have their own unique “flair” to it that’s not shown in game – for example, asura would hold a bit more magitech to their engineer stuff (like we see via the Inquest engineers), while sylvari would have more biodegradable things like plant-based fuel for their flamethrowers.

So really, the playable class of combat engineer in GW2 wasn’t solely developed by the Iron Legion. They are made popular and shown to be effective on the front lines by them. They set the trend, so to speak, but it had both existed beforehand and existed independently from the charr – even the modern ones. It’s just that, visually, all player character engineers use charr tech-looking gear.

Actually, Korsbaek, context is everything.

You cannot take out that one word to mean its typical meaning. Depending on its usage, the word “may” means something other than “could” or “might.” The full sentence is this:

“It may pose its own dangers, but it does counter the undead dragon’s influence.”

In this usage, it’s not “it might pose it’s own dangers, but what is known is that it counters the undead dragon’s influence.” Rather, it’s no different than wording it as: “It counters the undead dragon’s influence, but it poses its own dangers too.” Or alternatively wording it as “Although it has its dangers, it does counter the undead dragon’s influence.”

It’s not just your word choice that matters, but how you use it. Every word holds multiple meanings, even the word “may” (even excluding the month, May).

The more traditional professions were likely developed by multiple races independently. Thieves, for example, were likely a staple profession in charr society long before the Assassins from Cantha spread their teachings into Tyria.

Jormag plays to the desires to gain strength, and continuously whisper promises of power to them. This is psychological in the sense that he’s playing to their personalities and their thoughts – he brings them to his side then he corrupts them with his magic. And it doesn’t really come off as a boss/employee relationship either – he gives those who wish power such to corrupt them. The Sons of Svanir hold an incorrect notion of Jormag (so the devs tell us).

Only superficially. It gave Snaff control of the branded they were imbedded within, but it didn’t do anything to keep them from being corrupted. There’s no speculation to really be had, since we had the situation explained to us.

The corruption from Kralkatorrik’s breath was a direct touch kind of thing, and Snaff wasn’t touching the corruptive breath – nor were the others.

Touch the breath, you’re corrupted. Don’t touch it, you’re fine. Ever been to the Branded mines in Fields of Ruin? Inside isn’t (as, depending which of the two you talk about, and the more corrupted one is a mostly open mine) corrupted, and there’s comment about how some of the underground iron avoided corruption.

Engineers did not originate with the charr. Combat engineers – that is, engineers that use portable weapons to fight personally – did.

Humans have had engineers for centuries, though they primarily focused on siege weaponry in regards to military. So human engineers just adopted portable “siege” weaponries (turrets, etc.), likely from the charr (either those in Lion’s Arch or those they killed).

But there were human engineers – militant ones, unlike Lutinz’s apparent claims – long before there were charr engineers. Unless charr had steampunk technology in GW1 that we never saw for unknown reasons (doubtful, since their industrial revolution began with the Flame Legion’s fall).

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ascalon_Engineer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kournan_Siege_Engineer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Master_Engineer_Jakumba
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Engineer

Technically, Jormag uses psychology – he leads individuals into joining him of their own free will based on their desires of strength and power. Mostly, at least.

Zhaitan’s risen is just psychological warfare, a bunch of taunts, lies, and whatever in order to reduce your morality – this isn’t for corrupting, however, but just to make you lose your will to fight so you’re easier to kill.

Both use psychology in two different ways.

WatchTheShow.7203:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That crystal was something used to prevent mental connection, iirc. In other words, it would only be effective against Jormag and his champions.

I suppose, but isn’t that how Kralk’s power works too? He forces his way into your mind and takes control over you? I could have sworn the crystal protected again Kralk as well, otherwise that’s a somewhat large hole one could poke into the story.

No and no. Kralkatorrik’s (primary) corruptive power is physical manipulation via his breath – he only held a chance of corrupting three individuals mentally because they (Snaff, Jennah, and Anise) dove into his mind, rather than the other way around. This is also likely why Kralkatorrik’s corruption didn’t affect the Foefire ghosts – they’re not physical, so they wouldn’t have been affected by the corrupting breath.

The gray powerstone isn’t an “anti-Elder Dragon” device otherwise they’d be spreading them about the world as best they could. It’s an anti-mental powers crystal, and seems to be used against mesmerism forthright.

spoj.9672:

They had power crystals on the golems to protect snaff from kralks breath. I believe they also wore some power crystals to help. The trenches they dived into were filled with power crystals. So they were pretty safe in there.

The powerstones on the golem to protect Snaff wasn’t to protect him from Kralk’s breath – it was to help Snaff get into Kralkatorrik’s mind – the exact opposite of the gray powerstone.

The powerstones in the trenches, which they did not dive into, were used as spikes to kill branded that fell in them which, again, would allow Snaff to mind-control them.

In both cases, the “powerstones” were actually Kralkatorrik’s crystallized blood. They were also put on the laurel that Glint placed on Kralkatorrik’s head. And Glint warned Destiny’s Edge that the powerstones could prove to be too strong for Snaff and cause a backlash.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the probability, to avoid the same bloody argument that ends with you unable to prove me unlikely, and using the jotun and dwarves as an excuse for how such can come to be despite norn being far more human than either – and me unable to convince you that the norn look more human than dwarves do.

True, but I’d have to call you delusional if you think the norn and humans don’t have similar physiology. ^^

And I merely said that it’s more likely that the norn hold a common ancestor with Luxons, rather than with kodan. More likely != likely

The Forgotten and naga are outright stated to not be related. The Forgotten are, as far as we’ve been told (which like a lot of things from the History of Tyria, may not be entirely true), from the Mists.

The krait and naga may be related, but the Forgotten are not related to the naga and are highly unlikely to be related to the krait.

The only similarity beyond being serpentine there are between the krait and the Forgotten are the elongated mussel.

It is in fact my opinion that the krait were once mistaken by the naga by Canthans in the past, as the supposed oddly aggressive naga mentioned in Empress Tahmu’s history.

Ludovicus.7980:

I mean, there’s a chance that humans an dwarves are related someway.
I believe that norn are just shapeshifting kodan that embraced the human spirit at some point and didn’t remember how to turn back permanently into bear.

1. Nope; humans come from the Mists. They’re not of Tyrian origin. Dwarves however existed on the world long before humanity were brought by the Six Gods. There is no possible way for humans and dwarves to be related unless one was a Mists’ attempted and failed copying the other race from a different world.
2. The norn are not likely to be related to the kodan, to be honest. They hold next to no cultural similarities and the only shared concept is that the norn sometimes take on a grizzly bear form because of their Bear Spirit – and that the kodan believe in many spirits in the world (which could, possibly, include the Spirits of the Wild). I, personally, find it more likely that the norn hold a common ancestor with the Luxons which have a lot more cultural similarities. Honestly saying the norn are related to the kodan because of Bear Form is like saying they’re related to tengu because of Raven Form, or to charr because of Snow Leopard Form.

That crystal was something used to prevent mental connection, iirc. In other words, it would only be effective against Jormag and his champions.

@Drax:
1) Yes, I meant that step; yes, what you say is technically correct but it just leads into the realm of arguing against unknowns – as I can irrefutably rebuttal that we don’t know how long it would require to be submerged nor how long it has been submerged so it could not need long/have been a while.

2) Not just “could be in those locations regardless” but are, given how they’re much further out. Moreso with the latter situation. It doesn’t seem to draw the risen – when they were taking the blue orb, they were intent on removing a defense from the Pact, by all intents, rather than after that blue orb for what it is (just after it because the Pact had it).

3) What you said doesn’t nullify or even damage the opinion that Sayeh’s description and wording seems to be that the orb itself holds dangers, rather than the krait’s ties to the orb makes going after/having the orb dangerous.

4) I doubt the krait would pass for the Forgotten since – to all our knowledge – the Forgotten are not of Tyrian origin, and thus wouldn’t be related to the krait and that, despite the common placement of both being serpentine, the races are rather different in physical (let alone cultural) appearances. On other races having “approval” or what-have-you… only the humans would likely pass as such, which would mean the orb would have had its defenses placed after the humans arrived, which I find unlikely unless the Forgotten were certain the ED would rise again and made the orb as a weapon for humanity to use… but if that were the case, why not just spread knowledge of the ED? So that seems highly unlikely too.

@Pavees: I meant no offense, nor do I mean none now,but your post – to me at least – when removing the fluff and explanation of what the bloodstones are (something I too know very well, but did not know if you knew what they looked like, so apologies if I seemed rude – I hold no means of knowing how long individuals have played or how much attention they’ve paid), all I could see was basically “the blue orb seems similar to the bloodstone” – so I had no clue what it is you were meaning.

Knowing what you were meaning now, however, I would say that it’s possible and an interesting connotation, but I don’t really think it goes about absorbing magic – even just Zhaitan’s magic. As I said, it merely makes existing risen docile (mostly), rather than removing any magic… as far as we can observe and see, at least.

So it’s possible – and if so, then it’s probably of Seer origins – but I doubt it personally.

@Drax and Pavees’s latest posts: I’d say the bloodstone’s soul sucking attributes are tied to the inscriptions on them – which are seen on doors in Bloodstone Caves, which require “inscriptions” taken from the corpses of ettins nearby to open – as the inscriptions glow upon someone dying on the bloodstone.

I would disagree with the mursaat as the originator of the blue orb, as the mursaat’s magic seems to focus in two realms: souls and dimensional phasing (the former being things like the soul batteries and spectral agony, the latter, which seems soul-related too, being tied to their whole invisibility and invulnerability bit). That dimensional phasing seems to be what made the mursaat so effective, as we can use it ourselves to a limited degree during Arah explorable and it prevents risen from being able to harm us.

I doubt that the mursaat held a means to counter Elder Dragon minion-making, or to push them away, personally.

Of course, we must keep in mind that the jotun don’t know of all races that were around and survived the last ED rise. There were no mention of the karka or djinn, who were both that old and are still around. So there could easily be others that survived thanks to their premature starvation.

@Ludovicus: The Forgotten – or so we were originally told – come from the Mists. They, like humans, are not of Tyrian origins. And there’s really not that much similarity between krait and Forgotten – though there’s an increased similarity between krait and naga since GW2.

I wouldn’t say youngest – his influence seems to stretch the furthest in terms of making undead. Each dragon holds a different ability/preference for how to corrupt, and Zhaitan’s may be the most limiting, but is the fastest-conversion and furthest reaching of them.

As for him being out of the running, it seems highly likely, but not 100% certain.

Well that’s more or less correct about the Bloodstones, but that’s not really what the blue orb does or even looks like (the Blodstones are a dark red/purplish color, not blue).

Given the context, I think it’s more that it holds its own dangers even to the krait.

Sayeh al’ Rajihd: Impressive. I will present this trophy to the great Houses in your names. You have earned the right of introduction: I am Sayeh alRajihd.
Sayeh al’ Rajihd: Now, as we agreed: the orb you seek is a thing of legend, known only to deep dwellers. Its origins are lost, but it is extremely powerful.
Sayeh al’ Rajihd: It may pose its own dangers, but it does counter the undead dragon’s influence. Wherever the orb is, those who die near it do not rise again.
Sayeh al’ Rajihd: The krait are keeping it in constant transit between their largest strongholds to maximize its effect.
Sayeh al’ Rajihd: I suggest a plan: I was brought close to the slavemaster when I allowed myself to be captured. If you do the same, you may reach the orb.
Crusader Apatia: I’d rather snatch it in transit, while it’s vulnerable. The Pact desperately needs to rein in Zhaitan’s power.
<Character Name>: We have a difficult decision here, but at least now it can be an informed decision. Thank you for your help, Sayeh al’ Rajihd.
Sayeh al’ Rajihd: May your steps be relentless.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wet_Work

Narcemus.1348:

Also, perhaps it was a Forgotten creation, but it did not work out entirely as expected and it had a “danger” of some sort which would be why they threw it into the depths of the ocean to be rid of it (being as there were no known underwater races in the previous rise). Entirely speculation, but they are just as likely as anything else.

Karka were around in the previous rise, you know.

@Drax: My guess is that it lies to being dangerous when underwater rather than when above water. And you’re right, there’s a lot of possibilities for why it “has its own dangers” to it, but the fact that we never see or hear of these dangers is quite questioning, and you have to wonder why. We can pretty much cross off all of your postulations, however, as each scenario is entered and non-existent in-game. It’s both seen above and below water yet holds no obvious effect, it doesn’t attract minions and the context shows against “the krait will be after it” (though I’m sure that’s a pretty obvious thing! But it’s not a danger the orb itself holds), and there’s no trap to it affecting non-krait so unless the krait removed the dangers, it still exists… but is not seen.

Lions live (in GW1 modern times) in Elona. They may have lived elsewhere, like BuddhaKeks mentioned, same with horses in fact.

Regarding the whole colonization by Elona – irrelevant. Yes, the Kryta we know today was founded as an Elonian colony, however, Lion’s Arch did house King Doric’s palace – which would be during its first establishment by Orr.

The seat of power in Kryta, Lion’s Arch housed the royal palace okitteng Doric and his line until after the last Guild War. Now, the White Mantle run the city. The old buildings have all been razed, making space for barracks and more practical structures.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lion%27s_Arch

And I think it was called Doric’s summer estate once, too, though I may be misremembering something else as this.

Orr and Elona are fairly close geographically and there was more than likely likely some form of communication between Elona, then led by the now-called Primeval Kings, and King Doric and King Mazdak.

Both posts above is pretty much what I’ve been saying.

The Forgotten came to mind, but I don’t see a Forgotten artifact made to prevent dragon corruption having “its own dangers.”

And unless I’ve been missing something for the whole time, all we know the Priory and Order knows is that there are six dragons (Priory’s knowledge) and five dragon targets (Whispers’ “knowledge”). We don’t know, as I said, whether that fifth target is Mordremoth or the DSD. Though there’s a lot more information about the DSD available in the open world (quaggans’ reports of why they fled their home) than the Jungle Dragon.

Ah yeah, that Vigil fella. I got that vibe from him too, with him going on about how he couldn’t let harm come to her and how conflicted he was between duty to the outpost and “duty” to her.

I don’t see why not (though that use of the pronoun was heavily misleading). I mean, if you found a device of unknown origins that kept you safe from your biggest threat, wouldn’t you want to use it? Chances are, even if you say no, most people would. And there’s little reason why not to use it.

Side note first: @FlamingFoxx: if they don’t know what it is, then they cannot “not put something belonging to the DSD in the middle of a Pact fort” – because as far as they know or suspect, it’s not. Hell, we can’t even be sure they know of the DSD (they know of five Elder Dragons, not six; but we don’t know if the fifth they know of is the DSD or the Jungle Dragon).

It’s my theory that it is indeed tied to the DSD. You have to pay a lot of attention to the storyline involved with it, because there’s quite a bit in minor side-lines or even the dialogue boxes (not voice acted) with Sayeh, but Sayeh gives a lot of information about it. From what she tells us:

• It’s a thing of legend from the depths, something that wouldn’t be known to surface dwellers.
• Its origins have been forgotten, even to the “deep dwellers” (as Sayeh calls the underwater races), but it is known to be extremely powerful
• It holds its own dangers (what said dangers are, are unknown).

From what we know of the orb otherwise:

• It holds residual effect.
• It counters Zhaitan’s corruption.
• It is revered close to the krait’s Prophets (which themselves hold a lot of possible ties to the DSD/the DSD’s champions).

The biggest counter point is that Elder Dragons influence can corrupt the same being, but we don’t know if Elder Dragons’ can prevent other dragons from corrupting so it’s not a solid counterpoint. Then there is the fact that this orb has “dangers” which doesn’t seem to be in the realm of corrupting living beings (we don’t have much on DSD corruption, but what we do have is that it twists only water into minions); and it is both ancient, highly powerful magic, and of forgotten origins.

To me, it screams “Deep Sea Dragon ties.”

Regarding the Elder Dragons – like I’ve said multiple times, you do get to delve into the Elder Dragons’ mind… through their minions. Keep in mind that all minions are no longer their self. They’ve been altered into the belief that their dragon is their reason for living (or unliving), and they work to their dragon’s goals, act to their dragon’s beliefs, and say what their dragon thinks (paraphrasing the dragon’s opinion, that is, not being a speaker for the dragon’s mental process).

In the case of the Flame Legion and dredge – actually, yes, you were capable of this, but only through the Order of Whispers’ side-quest with the dead drops, where you got reports of the Molten Alliance’s dealings from a infiltrating spy. Then there were the two prisoners at the end.

Lokheit.7943:

He might be targeting the Consortium and Noll, but I don’t think helping the refugees is a priority in his agenda. I don’t think he cares at all for them, they’re just collateral damage in the Consortium thing so they could become an asset in his favor if he can get support from some of them, but his acts are clearly endangering everyone in the area.

Not according to Scott:

Scott McGough.6897:

As for the flaming gauntlets, remember that Canach is a seasoned combat veteran and an experienced guerilla fighter with a fairly twisted sense of what’s right. When he heard about the Molten Alliance refugees resettling on Southsun Cove, he saw a chance to help other Consortium victims and get even with Noll. But like a good soldier, he wanted to understand the situation in which he was about to involve himself, so he made a point of seeking out one of the Molten Alliance weapons facilities and clearing it. He obtained the gauntlets from that escapade and wears them now as a symbol of his newly adopted (and so far poorly executed) role as a champion of the weak…right before he set out for Southsun Cove to settle things with Noll.

He is out to help the settlers, but he’s more interested in sticking it to the Consortium, and helping out the settlers is just a means to do that. And he seems to want to justify his actions by claiming “I’m helping them.”

I’m pretty sure it’s two human women, actually, not a human and sylvari. Or it was the human interested, because I know for certain that the interested one was human.

Most of the loading screens didn’t make it as is into the game.

@FlamingFoxx: They could have been built over 250 years, though they’d be making more sense in the Crystal Desert. TBH, I suspect that concept art was for the now-verdant areas of the Crystal Desert, rather than Kryta.

Essarious Quw.8946:

I absolutely agree with this. Even if its just one or two NPCs in the grove talking about why the Nightmare Court look different to the residents of the Grove it would be most entirely welcome.

That’s unrelated to what I was talking about because quite frankly the Nightmare Court don’t look all that different to the residents of the Grove. But Canach had a full out makeover between two separate appearances, and it doesn’t seem like it’d be touched upon in-game given the need by the devs to make note of it here rather than pulling them “wait and see” option.

Niyo.5920:

A book about Canachs Story would be really cool! Seems he has a lot of story and if it’s written as good as the last text about him that would be a great book.

Canach or not, I think Scott should write the fourth Guild Wars novel.

And yes, I do think there should be a fourth Guild Wars novel.

Canach is riling up the animals is his attempt to getting them to attack the Consortium – it’s not a bright idea, but his target is Noll and the Consortium there, not the refugees.

It’s one of the bits of lore never mentioned or hinted at (yet) in-game.

I’d think something more tied to Istan or Utopia.

Scott McGough.6897:

Canach’s look has indeed undergone a major change since The Lost Shores, and I regret that there isn’t more background available regarding how it happened, but let me address the question here: his change in appearance is almost entirely due to the hardships he’s endured since he escaped Lionguard custody. He’s a fugitive from justice, he’s had Noll’s freelance decommission teams trying to kill him, and he’s utterly alone, so it’s been a tough couple of months for the sylvari fugitive.

Being on the run, fighting for his life, and killing the killers sent after him have weathered Canach; plus, he made a concerted effort to change his look (hairstyle, etc.) so as not to be recognized and arrested by the Lionguard. It’s quite a come down from the high position and status he enjoyed as a secondborn (even if that status was never as high as he thought it should be), and his new, grimmer look is meant to reflect the psychological toll he’s had to pay as well as the physical one.

As for the flaming gauntlets, remember that Canach is a seasoned combat veteran and an experienced guerilla fighter with a fairly twisted sense of what’s right. When he heard about the Molten Alliance refugees resettling on Southsun Cove, he saw a chance to help other Consortium victims and get even with Noll. But like a good soldier, he wanted to understand the situation in which he was about to involve himself, so he made a point of seeking out one of the Molten Alliance weapons facilities and clearing it. He obtained the gauntlets from that escapade and wears them now as a symbol of his newly adopted (and so far poorly executed) role as a champion of the weak…right before he set out for Southsun Cove to settle things with Noll.

Hope this helps,

Scott, I do hope you intend to add this information into the game somehow. There’s so much lore that’s not presented in-game itself, so many behind-the-scenes explanations that would solve unanswered questions for players that bring confusion.

Please, can you find a means to put at least much more of these background aspects into the game? Not stuff that’s in your face, but still somehow determinable so that you wouldn’t have to come to the forums to explain these confusions and oddities that, with the explanation, makes a lot more (if not perfect) sense? And even just more filler background lore.

Slim to none. Best chance would be to ask them in interviews.

At this point, the Aquatic (krait) one is the most intriguing to me, because it seems so unlike anything we know – particularly those statues.

As to designed with future plans in mind – maybe, maybe not. There’s two things of interest to me about the Fractals as a whole: Firstly, Anet said that The Lost Shores content which the Fractals were introduced in would hold hints of future content (whether Fractals were those hints or not is debatable). Secondly, you have a fractal that matches or could match four of the five living Elder Dragons – Volcanic holds destroyer elements, Snowblind holds icebrood elements, Swamp could be tied to Mordremoth in some unknown manner, Aquatic hold krait who seems to (unknowingly?) hold a faith in the DSD (those prophets of theirs are very Elder Dragon sounding to me). Though these ties are likely just superficial at best, it’s interesting to consider – shame they don’t have a Crystal Desert themed fractal or an Orr-themed fractal to go with it (imagine a Fractal showing the Charr Invasion within Orr).

We were told that the Fractals were designed with the notion that they could do anything about the game’s lore, and even go away from the “canon timeline” since the Mists also makes up incomplete things. I doubt that it was randomly done though.

The DSD and Mordremoth’s power are uncomparable due to lack of information. Knowing how the Elder Dragons feed and that they gain power by corrupting more things, I’d say the order of strength is this:

Primordus (has all those asuran relics to consume and has been active the longest)
Jormag (he seems ready to cause havoc)
DSD (been around third longest now)
Kralkatorrik (seems to be inactive but has the Crystal Desert to consume magical artifacts of)
Mordremoth (seems to still be slumbering)

Mists, not Myst – Myst was a game series. An awesome game series. Though I love the typo because of nostalgia.

The Mists are more than just where past, present, and future gets mixed up. Rather, it’s protomatter – the building blocks of all existence – and the afterlife. You can think of it as the Guild Wars’ equivalent of both the Big Bang and entropy – the beginning and end of all things. Along with this, it is connected to all things and all times, connecting what has happened (past), what is happening (present), what could happen (all possible futures), and what’s currently going to happen (the current, changable, future). Along with those four, the Mists also seem to contain alternate universes – though this is just theorycrafting at this point, as an explanation for World versus World.

Beyond what we see in the fractals themselves, we have nothing on Snowblind (Sons of Svanir), Underground (Dredge), Volcanic (Grawl), Aquatic (Krait), and Swamp fractals. But an interesting note about Volcanic is that it may be tied to destroyers. All the bats are oddly fiery and the Imbued Shaman’s fight is not only structured similarly to the Great Destroyer’s fight in GW1, but also he wields a Destroyer Bow.

The Urban Battleground Fractal is an alternate “reality,” as Minos said, of the events formed around The Searing. Uncategorized Fractal appears to be a “possible future.” Unlike what Minos said, these two do not outright indicate alternate realities (hence why I used quotation marks when I said reality before) – the Mists copies, but does not copy perfectly. The things that it mimics in creating things often come out flawed, and when that happens to living beings you get demons – but in the Fractal’s case, you have historical events being replayed in a manner that didn’t happen the way the fractal shows. This is why we cannot be certain that Uncategorized Fractal is of a possible future, since it may simply just be a mis-copy of something happening at Rata Sum, causing it to explode/crash/whathaveyou.

As Minos said, the Cliffside Fractal occurred at the “beginning of known history on Tyria” – that is, when humanity had recently been brought to the lands. There is no date given to when humanity arrived on the world, though it was previously thought to be sometime between 1,769 BE and 786 BE – the former marking the timeline’s claim of when the Forgotten were brought to the world by the Six Gods, the latter being the earliest human mention in Cantha (we know humans have been around much longer before then, but not how much longer, and now the former date is called into question due to new lore on the Forgotten – previously it was that the Six Gods brought forgotten then humanity to the world, but the forgotten may not hold original ties to the Six now).

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

You can thank Faolain for Cadyrn’s fall to evil.

If Zhaitan’s turns out to be the only Elder Dragon Sylvari are immune to(the only quest I read says they are immune to Undeath it does not mention Icebrood creation or Branded corruption) then Mordremoth most likely corrupted Faolain just so that she could take over the Nightmare Court from Cadyrn.

It’s told to us that Faolain fell because of Cadyrn, rather than the other way around, though at the same time we’re told that Faolain embraced the nightmare before Cadyrn’s birth. So it’s never really clear what’s what there, though Faolain certainly seemed to have done something to Cadyrn between the end of the story events in the sylvari blog post and Twilight Arbor’s story mode.

Regarding sylvari immunity to Elder Dragons – this is another thing not (fully) mentioned in game that was mentioned out-of-game. We were told during sylvari week (the week said linked blog post was released) that they (paraphrased) “do not become corrupted by the Elder Dragons. Instead of becoming corrupted, they simply die.” – this wording would actually possibly exempt Zhaitan’s corruption, since he only (directly) corrupts corpses, and would only mean Jormag and Kralkatorrik’s corruption is ineffective on sylvari. The interview made it sound like it was all Elder Dragons.

I don’t think the nightmare is Mordremoth’s outright corruption – there’s no physical change to Nightmare Courtiers – but rather that he’s influencing them. Kind of like how Drakkar pulled Svanir’s attention by whispering in his mind. There was no corruption, but still some influence.

CHIPS.6018:

It isn’t about personality. It is about the nemesis’s philosophies. In most NA games the foe lacks any sort of philosophy. They are evil for the sake of being evil.

That’s not what the OP said. Your argument is different than the OP, though the Elder Dragons do seem to hold a philosophy/motivation – it’s just presented via their minions. One – just one – example from the Risen is this:

“Defilers! Poisoners! We see you. We know your foul intent. These waters must remain as they are – and you must die!”

This gives, although only an implication, a glimpse into Zhaitan’s view on the world. That he is the one purifying, not corrupting, it.

Not all those who join the nightmare seem to be Nightmare Court – Noxia in Snowden Drift, for one. Similarly, as said, not all those who abandon the Ventari teachings embrace the nightmare (though some, like the pirates, likely teeter on the edge).

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

You can find out an astounding amount of lore in game if you want to by talking to NPC’s, listening to conversations and reading the yellow book icons. There is no shortage of lore in game for lore hounds.

Trust me, you don’t have to tell me there’s a lot of lore in the game. I’m one of those who talk to every NPC at every possible moment between various stages of events, story steps, or dungeons.

What I was saying is that there’s so much more lore never even hinted at out of the game. For example, for as much as you can learn of Rox in-game, you would never know about her old warband’s name. For as much as you can learn of Canach in-game, you would not know that he got those Molten Gauntlets from raiding a Molten Facility (so far you wouldn’t, at least). In GW1, there was never a mention of the Canthan emperors other than Kisu and Angsiyan – however, from An Empire Divided we learn of so many more. In Factions, you wouldn’t know the month the campaign began in, but in the update notes Anet provided a letter from Togo to Mhenlo (which is talked about in-game) with a date while talking about early Factions events.

This is just the very tip of the iceberg. I could go on for HOURS about what’s never mentioned in-game.

These facts presented to the playerbase – or not – do not need to be be presented in a single wall-o-text. They just need to be presented. And there are players who would enjoy walls of text, and they could be added via books or something unnecessary to interact with.

jheryn.8390:

I agree with you. It’s pretty obvious they went for descriptions. I know that made sense to do, but do you think it would kill them to throw GW1 players a bone once in a while? We all know it’s a version of the Jade Sea in there. Jade Sea is just as descriptive as Solid Ocean. Anyone that steps on the thing knows it’s solid. I get a little annoyed that Anet seems to constantly want to avoid some GW1 references especially Canthan ones. Most of us loved that game. Come on Anet!

Anyone can know its solid, true, but not that it’s solid water.

I don’t see it as an avoidance of reference to GW1 at all. Hell, the fact they added it in of itself is one hell of a huge reference to GW1. ArenaNet loves to let players figure things out themselves, not avoiding references.

Wukunlin.8461:

One thing I like to say about giants and GL. IIRC some gw1 players pointed out GL’s are meant to be larger than the one in arah according to some info they got from gw1. So maybe the one in arah exp is either a baby GL (poor thing ), or it is simply shrunk down so players fighting it can actually fit it on our screens.

Also between the colossus in fotm, GL, and the “giants” (risen ones and those couple in other areas in GW2) seems to be different from one another and just (somewhat) similar in size.

Not correct at all. In GW1, we never had outright confirmation of what the Giganticus Lupicus looked like or their size. We SUSPECTED that the huge bones across Tyria and Elona were G-Lupe bones. Those bones were, after all, the most likely remains we had. But they’re more of dragon champion size, not G-Lupe.

The thing in Arah is definitely not a baby. Its physical appearance parallels a grown dog, rather than a puppy.

The cyclopian giants in GW2 are no where near the size of the colossus – neither is the Giganticus Lupicus. Maybe Abaddon was, or Zhaitan, or the other Elder Dragons would be, but the G-Lupe probably barely reaches the colossus’ knees. Certainly not the waist. And the giants would reach only roughly the G-Lupe’s shoulders at best (and the G-Lupe crouches).

The Nightmare Court actually aren’t evil for the sake of being evil. It’s poorly represented in-game though, like an increasingly large amount of Anet’s background lore. The Nightmare Court were formed by Cadyrn who, besides being spoiled and an attention-kitten, he believed that sylvari should work to form their own rules and destinies, not blindly follow the teachings of a pacifist centaur who never knew sylvari could exist.

This concept got perverted somewhere along the road (in the lore, not in the writing of the game) and Cadyrn went from spoiled “I’ll do what I want!” Secondborn to “we will engulf the world in darkness!”

And why the Nightmare Court went from an actual noble cause to being pure evil is up to question, though I suspect that the Nightmare itself has to deal with it, and that it is tied to Mordremoth.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Centaur_War pretty much tells us as much of the history of the war as we know. To summarize/elaborate on what’s not there:

The earliest mention we have of the war is 300 AE, when Kryta was being resettled (by Elonians instead of Orrians as it was the first time) and the Krytans pushed further north than before. The centaurs were pushed out of their home (northern Kryta) into the northern Maguuma (now Maguuma Wastes) and the Northern Shiverpeaks (now no longer distinguished from the rest of the Shiverpeaks as the Southern Shiverpeaks as become the Steamspur Mountains).

King Oswald Thorn brought up “negotiations” but knowing him the terms were probably as the centaurs claimed: unfavorable. The war seemed to have slowed down in 1072 AE, as we don’t see much of it in Guild Wars 1, except for the Shvierpeak tribes trying to form an alliance with the Maguuma tribes which – at least at first – failed. Though we do know that the war was ongoing as Ventari fought in it during his youth. In 1078 AE, during Eye of the North, the Modniir centaurs were mostly wiped out by the humans and norn which further broke the war down a bit until about 50 years prior to Guild Wars 2, where Ulgoth – the leader of the Modniir – reunited the Modniir and subjugated the Tamini and Harathi into working under the Modniir.

jheryn.8390:

Last night while fractal running, one of the people in my group said that these slices of the mist could be from any time; past, present or future. Is there anything out there that suggests that we could be seeing possible future situations? From what Leah said above it seems that these are only situations from the past. If there were any truth to the future scenario, that would skew some theories.

Uncategorized Fractal seems to be of a possible future, as it is based in a shattered Rata Sum. But the Mists can reproduce places, things, and events from any time – including future. This knowledge comes from the Prophecies manual on The Rift:

“In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things. "

jheryn.8390:

Also, has anyone ever said why they called it the Solid Ocean Fractal? Why didn’t they just call it the Jade Sea Fractal. Most people I know call it the Jade Maw. It is obviously the Jade Sea. So what if the actual characters in the game don’t know it is the Jade Sea? The the title is for the players benefit, not the characters.

Jade Maw is the name of the kraken in the fractal. It’s probably called Solid Ocean because it’s solidified water – which is explained by Dessa. I mean, they don’t go calling Urban Battlegrounds “Alternate Searing Fractal” (which is what it is – an alternate version of The Searing, the Searing itself being the disturbance that’s coming). It’s just how Anet named things – descriptive rather than definitive.

Magic naturally returning to the world and the Elder Dragons being a natural means of using it up has been my theory on them for a while. And an extension of my theory is that the Elder Dragons are made from magic too – mainly from Glint’s description of Kralkatorrik which is “more magical than physical” as well as Kralkatorrik turning into a living sandstorm at will as if his physical body is merely a representation… and Jormag may be the same, as he’s described as a living blizzard though this may be more metaphorical given Zhaitan’s lack of turning into something (kind of disappointing he didn’t turn into an altered version of the Plague skill, but with thousands of tiny dragons instead of insects). Under such theorycrafting, I believe that the Elder Dragons are specifically formed from large amounts of condensed magic that gains sentience through infecting living beings and they eventually make these draconic-looking bodies (if you really look at Zhaitan and the champions on a whole, it really seems to me that them being dragons is a coincidental (in lore) thing).

So, in full, my theory is this:

Given other various facts, I suspect that the previous Elder Dragon rises were in approx. 10,000 BE, 6,000 BE, and 2,000 BE (this is mostly based off of a line from Seiran saying the oldest dwarven ruins are "over 2,000 years old – an odd number if the last rise was 10,000 BE as otherwise told – as well as the timeline date for Forgotten to have arrived on Tyria being 1,768 BE – there’s more, such as jotun seemingly survived multiple rises which seems unlikely if its every 11,000 years). Because of the Bloodstones, the Elder Dragons, who always previously devoured all/almost all magic in the world, starved without consuming all magic and went into hibernation. Thanks to the Six Gods unleashing magic, the Elder Dragons woke up early (having an approx. 2,000 year sleep rather than 4,000 year sleep) because there’s more magic in the world sooner. Now, if the Elder Dragons are killed off, there will be no reduction means of magic. And I suspect that high magical concentration is a bad thing – even if just natural magic, as such things tend to be at places like Ring of Fire and the like. So as magic increases, so will natural phenomena that causes problems… until new Elder Dragons are born. And the cycle repeats itself once more.

But there’s absolutely no reason why one would have to add in theories when talking about facts.

Zaxares.5419

Hmm, but there’s nothing saying that a tribe couldn’t swear allegiance to a different House, right? It may be possible for tribes to move from one House to another through marriage, political alliances and the like. It could explain why tribes of different racial descent could belong to different Houses.

It probably would depend on what exactly the Houses do in Tengu society. If each of the Houses is dedicated to a different aspect of Tengu society (similar to the Ministries back in Cantha), why wouldn’t a Quetzal tribe that was renowed for producing fierce warriors join the House of the East Wind (just as an example), even though traditionally the Quetzals are seen more as singers and tricksters (favouring the Rogue and Mesmer professions). If the Houses were split more along philosophical lines like the Sylvari cycles, I would think racial ancestry would be even less of an issue.

Yes and no. The Houses are made up of different tribes in an attempt to retain said tribes’ own culture and to prevent conflict among the tribes. And given their honor-bound notions, it seems unlikely that full tribes, or even clans, would join different houses. It’s not really detailed, but I don’t think it’s possible except for individuals to change Houses – much like individuals would change clans upon marriage (or so I would presume – it may not be the case).

In short: the Houses were formed out of the heritages of the tengu, in order to preserve different cultures of the same species. The houses function, it seems to me, akin to the different districts of Divinity’s Reach.

The thing is that WP presents theories as if they were fact.

Though there’s still more facts in lore than there is speculation – which only stem from people trying to make connections (often when there isn’t such) or trying to fill in gaps of unknown.

Laryakan.1684:

As you know, there were giants in Tyria, Gigantus Lupicus, they disapears somewhere around 10000 before Exode. Elder Dragons appears probably at the same time.
But Gigantus Lupicus were not big as the COLLOSSUS (look at the boss in Arah, an undead Gigantus Lupicus rised big Zaithan).
Humans don’t come from Tyria (they are extra-Tyrian, they came from the mist), and we dont have any informations about the incoming of other races except from dwarves.
The Lonely Vigil is an Elonian craft.
The collosus is a real mistery here. The Six Gods were here at the same time as Humans, and AFTER Elder Dragons (an then after Gigantus Lupicus). It can’t be a GODS creation…

A few things:

1. Elder Dragons likely predate the Giganticus Lupicus, as the ED caused the G-Lupe’s extinction.
2. The creation of the dwarves is a legend, not entirely truthful, just like the notion of human gods creating the worlds. It’s a creation myth.
3. The Lonely Vigil’s origins is never explained; in fact, it is most likely Ascalonian based on observations.
4. When the gods came onto Tyria is irrelevant, given the Colossus is in the Mists. However, we know one thing about the Colossus fractal from an interview (there was a thread made on this): the fractal is a representation of the beginnings of Tyrian history. What this means in regards to the colossus is unknown, however, this means thakitten ’s likely representing when humanity was new on the world – i.e., depending on which sources are more credible, either in the 2,000-1,000 BE area, or the 10,000-2,000 BE area in the timeline.