Guild Wars 2

Not only does the map show centaur locations, it also show bandit locations.

TBH, I think it’s just a model re-use and don’t put much stock into it, thinking that it’s something meant for a Seraph office, but you never know.

She’s not part of the path that cuts off the supply to the Mouth of Zhaitan, but she doesn’t appear at any point later either.

Her disappearance is one among many things that shows to me that all story options “take place” to some degree irregardless of your own actions. It’s just that you – and sometimes other NPCs – are not around for the actions (but enemies and other NPCs are – in this case, Hekja would be there, perhaps).

@Toumir: Thing is, that’s working under the impression that it was an immediate drying out. Thing is, all we really know is that the blow that struck Abaddon down caused some elevation shift to make the desert. We don’t know how immediately the sea became a desert – given that all the ships of the Margonites somehow managed to locate themselves in one – possibly two (depending on the origins of the spot north of Amnoon/SW of Seeker’s Path which looks built from shipwrecks too) location, I somehow doubt it was an immediate thing.

Though I’ll concede that specific point since it slipped my mind. But that’s still a 10,000+ timeframe you have… you only eliminated 1,000 years, really.

@Narcemus: Well, keep in mind that the ossuary of the temple of Lyssa more than likely wasn’t covered in massive amounts of bone before Zhaitan took over. And for all we know, it was only recently realized that was “Dhuum’s Last Stand” – honestly speaking, other than the PoI’s name and the skill challenge speaking of some unknown residual transference of energies, there’s nothing to say “Dhuum was here.” And the names are more mechanical than lorical. Only mention of Dhuum in Tyria ever is solely “Dhuum was replaced by Grenth and the would-be Seven Reapers,” which is less than what we get from the Realm of Torment/Underworld events.

darkace.8925:

I didn’t realize that. But either way, he’s said to be the size of a mountain. Even allotting for hyperbole, he’s going to be massive. And I’ve fought Glilnt; she was large, but she was far from being the size of the Shatterer. She was also far from powerful. A party of eight could take her down. A party of eight might be able to take down the Shatterer, but it would take forever. It is stands to reason The Shatterer is nothing compared to its creator.

Everything’s “upped” for GW2 in terms of size. Glint’s described as having a single claw the size of an asura – which makes her claws far bigger in GW2 – and that her wingspan covered the whole of her sanctuary. Again, that’s far bigger than she was in GW1. And Kralkatorrik was said to be 20 times her size – and 1,000 feet tall. I don’t think Kralkatorrik’s as big as you’re thinking he is (remember we also saw it in GW1).

darkace.8925:

Looking at the scale of the Brand, I don’t know how anyone could plausibly dodge his corruption. You can’t just climb into a refrigerator to shield yourself from a nuclear blast.

In the book, it explains that they ducked into crevices and the like. They basically put stuff in-between them and the corruption to save them.

And nice joke on Indiana Jones there.

darkace.8925:

I just can’t see DE (with Glint’s help or without) realistically surviving an fight with any Elder Dragon if it actually wants them dead.

And there’s the crux of the situation.

Kralkatorrik wanted Glint dead. He didn’t give a kitten about Destiny’s Edge until Snaff started digging in his mind, at which point he at first thought them to be a minor issue his minions could take care of – so didn’t bother doing something himself – and when he realized they were an actual issue, it was too late.

VitalSuit.1980:

You forget that Almorra Soulkeeper, the creator of the Vigil, was the sole survivor of her entire warband that stood directly under Kralkatorrik’s corrupting breath. She survived in tact while being completely in the open and later founded the Vigil. Who’s to say that DE couldn’t do the same?

Technically, Almorra was standing just outside of the corruptive breath’s reach.

Which is, technically, exactly what Destiny’s Edge did too. Albeit differently.

darkace.8925:

In the Blazeridge Steppes loading screen, Kralk is large enough to crush The Shatterer in the palm of his hand, and The Shatter in turn is large enough to crush a human/norn/charr/etc with the tip of his finger.

That’s not Kralkatorrik. The Blazeridge Steppes loading screen shows The Shatterer surrounded by, I presume, Branded Lieutenants (the veterans that show up during The Shatterer’s event).

darkace.8925:

How is it Kralk didn’t simply squish the DE members and get on with his day?

It was a multi-step thing:

1. He tried corrupting them first.
2. When corrupting didn’t work (because they dodged, ducked, dived, dipped, and dodged), Glint kept him occupied.
3. When Glint was dead, Snaff was able to mind-dive to keep Kralkatorrik busy, trying to kill the small threat from a distance. When Kralkatorrik decided to go after the group himself because his minions couldn’t kill them, Snaff had taken over Kralkatorrik’s body via mindscrewing the Elder Dragon.
4. Destiny’s Edge had a weapon that could kill Kralkatorrik (a spear made from his spine).

darkace.8925:

Even if we’re to believe Kralk couldn’t just physically smash Destiny’s Edge, we’re also supposed to believe he couldn’t or wouldn’t use his immense power…power enough to rival a god…to wipe them from the face of Tyria?

He did use his power, but they were able to avoid his corruptive breath, and thanks to his dragon champion turning rogue, he had his hands full since he’s not a mental fighter.

Also, keep in mind that gods aren’t some invincible being of ultimate undenyable power. A group of 9 mortals can kill a (albeit chained) god.

sigh Another one of WP’s videos? Well, at least you didn’t make a new thread for an ancient and proven wrong hypothesis…

The Pale Tree is not a dragon champion. The sylvari are not minions – though the Nightmare Court may have been influenced by Mordremoth, not even dragon minions hold immunity to other dragons (the sylvari are known to be immune to all Elder Dragon corruption – or at least, Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik). A mere tablet cannot remove an Elder Dragon’s mental hold on others – or rather, give a dragon minion free will. A powerful ritual is the only known means.

Malyck is pure out proof that the theory is wrong. He’s not influenced by the Ventari Tablet, but is far from how the Nightmare Court are.

Tuomir.1830:

King Adelbern was a benevolent ruler who would do anything to protect his kingdom.

No, he wasn’t. He was a racist, stubborn, prideful, a war hero, and a good leader. But not benevolent. His immense hatred of Krytans speaks for itself in his “benevolency.”

Tuomir.1830:

Individually, they are long stretches, but looking that from a perspective where a former connection is assumed true, they make sense.

Bolded is precisely why they’re overly long stretches that reduce plausibility. You’re basing things not only on facts, but presumed connections.

Tuomir.1830:

As said before, it’s not based on just unknowns. We know where the staves were found, we know the point after which they couldn’t have been created, we know of Doric’s position as a king, we know that the events related to the staves were major enough to warrant for the intervention by the gods and more. The idea of “if such would have happened, we would know of it” is, while not solid evidence, far from basing solely on unknowns.

We know where one staff was found, actually. Where the White Mantle found the Scepter of Orr holds no baring to the original burial place – something you presume is not so. This is one such “assumed correct connection” mentioned above.

We do not know the point in which the staves couldn’t have been created. This is another presumption you’re making – that they couldn’t have been made pre-0 AE. But where’s this ever really shown?

“If such would have happened, we would know of it” – Abaddon. Dhuum. Both caused major problems in Tyria, but all knowledge of them was (more or less) removed from the world by the Six Gods. Though knowledge of Dhuum isn’t outright known to have been removed, we only hear of him from The Underworld and the Realm of Torment in GW1, and in GW2 only in secret-keeping of Grenth’s priesthood, or from the Priory (perhaps known only thanks to the GW1 events, like Abaddon).

We cannot say one way or another how much influence the PCs hold on lore. Not until it’s stated. And all we got that attests to that is how GW1 PCs screwed over Temple of the Ages thanks to the adventurers (mostly assassins) “raiding” the Underworld’s treasures.

“All traces” are far from gone. The Necromancer seems to have taken in a bit of ritualist aspects, the whole Spectral skill chain for example along with Shades give a bit of Ritualist flavoring.

Racial-focus among expansions. Just to avoid confusion.

Also, ArenaNet already said they’re doing expansions, not campaigns. The stand-alone campaign concept used in Guild Wars 1 won’t be kept in GW2.

I’d say that the profession just never spread out of Cantha. Keep note that the ritualists in EotN and WiK were either norn – who were just communicating with the Spirits of the Wild, aka were Shamans – and the White Mantle were more or less wiped out (and never really explained how they became ritualist).

Also keep in mind something far more important: skills in GW1 were not always used to show the enemies’ profession in lore. That is to say – charr monks didn’t pray to the Five Gods, despite the lore behind monks being that they got their powers from the gods. Same with dervishes and the like. As such, the assassins, dervishes, ritualists, and paragons seen in Tyria during WiK/EotN were not actually those professions, but they were, visually, akin to those professions to the point where they could be mistaken for the two.

Tuomir.1830:

Benevolent and defensive to his own people – that’s not mutually exclusive to being corrupted by power.

No, but unleashing horrors on their own lands is – which the dialogue says. “Terrible horrors were unleashed upon the lands once guarded by their benevolent power.”

Whomever these rulers were, the “terrible horrors” they “unleashed” were upon their own territories.

Tuomir.1830:

Meaning, while the connection might be stretched out, it doesn’t affect the facts behind the theory. And isn’t that what a theory is, plausible connections between what is known? My theory isn’t completely unfounded, it’s based on logical deduction. Comparing it to suggesting that humans came to Tyria from Earth without any kind of reasoning is out of line. I welcome you to pick apart my logic, but don’t spit on it.

The connection loses its plausibility the more stretching the connections hold. Yes, it doesn’t change the facts, but the connection doesn’t remain firm.

And I’m neither spitting on it nor was the suggested comparison I made “without any kind of reasoning” (I just didn’t give the reasoning since its so off-topic).

Tuomir.1830:

That is just uncalled for. If you want to prove my theory wrong so bad, you can search for a critical flaw in my logic. I did quite a bit of research making that theory, calling it based solely on unknowns is plain rude.

My point is that the “critical flaw” in your logic is that it’s based on unknowns.

When you have things based on unknowns, you can neither prove it wrong nor prove it right, and arguing for or against it becomes pointless before the end. Yes, you did research, but in the end you theory boils down to “we don’t know about this, this, and this, so that could mean <insert theory here> about that, that, and that” – We don’t know who’s buried in the crypt in Majesty’s Rest, so it could be Doric’s tomb. We don’t know when the staves were made or given, by whom, or to whom, so it could be that the wars ad the horrors are the same. Etc., etc.

I could use the same lines of arguments with only very minor twists and be just as convincing for why your theory is not the case. But it neither disproves nor proves either side.

Embolism.8106:

If a group of thugs came to your house, beat you up and dragged you away to ask a few questions, would you consider that just “rude”, or do you think it’s somewhat more serious than that…?

Consider how you would feel about that, especially if you don’t know what your captor’s intentions are and they’re wielding swords and guns (which they use to “rough you up”).

I’m a “the means justifies the end” kind of guy. So it’d depend on why they’re doing that for me to determine them as rude or what. And how rough they were with beating me up. I’d probably be scared during such and consider them kitten at the least, and the skritt certainly felt the same for the asura considering that they went about breaking out and trying to kill all the asura…

You have to keep in mind mechanics, regarding the “swords and guns” part. You can’t really go fighting with your fists in-game, sadly.

And also keep in mind that the heart-related ones there (not the event itself) weren’t necessarily beaten into submission. And also keep in mind that the beating is until they surrender – not until they’re unconscious.

Tuomir.1830:

Regardless of Mazdak’s lineage, you, too, agree that Doric was considered the king of Tyrian humans at the time, is what I’m reading.

Not so much agreeing as saying “it’s possible, but equally not so” – if Doric was a “high king” figure, I suspect he’d have been king over the Margonites too – or at least certainly above the Margonite king. And I’d suspect there was a king of Orr (as Doric seemed to have kept himself in Ascalon, given that Orr had to claim independence, Doric was crowned in Ascalon, and Doric made a trek to Arah from somewhere, yet anywhere in Orr isn’t all that far for some renowned “trek”).

Tuomir.1830:

I don’t see how I stated my theory is wrong – the quest dialogue states that both were corrupted and released horrors to their lands, not that they went power mad. You can assume the case, but it doesn’t make it a necessarily true, since there’s more than one way of being corrupt, especially when magic is involved. The way I see the events having played out, Doric would have used the staff’s power to protect his kingdom, relying increasingly on it and unwittingly releasing the mentioned horrors. That could be seen as corruption, especially since the one telling us about them is found in Desolation, and probably didn’t witness the Tyrian side of the events.

Corrupted, in this case, is meaning that they’re going, effectively, power mad. This isn’t like the Elder Dragon corruption or whathaveyou, it just means tat they turned evil(ish). Whether you call that power mad or not, you’re still stating that Doric remained benevolent and defensive the entire time – aka, while not stating it explicitly, what you’re saying means the same thing as Doric didn’t become corrupted by the staves’ power (“mad with power” as I put it, same meaning in the end, different vocab).

Tuomir.1830:

I stretch just as much as I need to in order to cover the ground between my points. It doesn’t take away from the value of the points the connections are based on.

Actually, it does. The more you stretch plausibilities, the less likely things are to be. I could argue all day for why humans on Tyria came from Earth, but it’d just be a bunch of stretching facts in a completely possible but completely unfounded way. Same as what you’re doing now.

And such stretching almost never turn out to be the case.

Tuomir.1830:

Except we don’t know whose crypt it was that the Scepter was found in. And as such, is could be practically anyone who isn’t known to be buried elsewhere.

So it could be where King Jadon is buried too.

This is no different than saying “humanity came from Earth because it’s never been said that they didn’t!”

Tuomir.1830:

But, by now you’ve succeeded in proving the fallacies of my theory, yet not proven it impossible.

It’s impossible to show your theory to be impossible, because it’s covering nothing but unknowns. When things are unknown, anything is possible really, just like I could say humans in Tyria came from Planet Earth. You’d never be able to prove me wrong.

jheryn.8390:

I still can’t get on board with this one. The giant thing, yes. The all taken at one time thing, no. It seems more than unlikely that the common ones like ghouls and hell hounds would not still be there.

And if he is making undead giants, why isn’t he making more hell hounds and ghouls. I’m sure they could import dead ones of those as well.

The hell hounds were, most likely, just undead dogs. There may not have been many in Orr in the first place.

Ghouls were people, twisted in a certain way. So we do see them – Risen Farmers, Risen Nobles, etc. etc. Those would be of the same origin as Ghouls. So Zhaitan no making more Ghouls is no different than him simply not making Risen (which while called undead by the uneducated, do not function nor are created in the same way as undead) the same way that Khilbron did.

I’d imagine that Krytans treated the corpses of undead similar to Canthans treating the corpses of Afflicted – burning them, or chopping them up, or otherwise making them unable to rise again. Besides, the bodies that the Risen conscript are recent kills. The only ancient (read: died before Zhaitan’s rise) Risen who’s body wasn’t in Orr that exists is Mazdak.

In the end, the only questionable “why don’t we see these” undead would be horses and hounds. Possibly Bone Dragons, though I’d imagine they were rare in Orr and all taken out. Same probably so for horses too.

The Branded are said to being able to make more of themselves – whether tihs means corrupting other beings or simply making branded from the pure crystal corruption itself is unknown. I suspect Glint did the same – either creating those “babies” from pure raw crystal “corruption” (corruption free of Kralkatorrik’s influence, I’d imagine given the baby’s attitude in the mission), or Glint went and corrupted creatures of whatever she was before (sand drakes?) and turned them into dragon champion-level minions (again, free of Kralk’s influence).

The fact that the eggs were pure, translucent, crystal kind of implies the former.

-continued from previous post-

Tuomir.1830:

Margonites ruled the Unending Ocean. I’d say that constitutes for a great nation. Nothing suggests early Kryta wasn’t part of Doric’s kingdom – Orrian History Scrolls tell “His kingdom encompassed the lands we now know as Orr, Ascalon and Kryta.”, and the way how modern Krytan royalty trace their line back to him tells how they consider themselves to be the heirs to his kingdom, if only a part of it.

No, they traversed the Unending Ocean. They didn’t rule it. The only land they’re known to have had is the Marga Coast. But that’s in Elona. They’re sea-farers, a group of united tribes under a king, and considered a single culture. But they didn’t lay claim to anything we know. The Unending Ocean is too wide, too deep, and too full of other creatures to really lay claim.

As to Kryta not being Doric’s – it’s likely that, as I said, Doric was a “king of kings” – or a Highborn King, or a High King. Every fantasy story revolving them holds a different title for it, but the same concept. A king that ruled above other kings. Thing is, we KNOW for a fact that Mazdak was the first King of Kryta. We know for a fact that he ruled when humanity was still young on the continent – this places him as ruling prior to 300 AE, and he came from Orr not Elona. So unless Mazdak was Doric’s son (which is important enough to be mentioned), it’s unlikely that he was of Doric’s lineage.

Modern Krytan royalty tracing lineage back to Doric says little to your argument. Somewhere from 300 AE to modern day, a Krytan king or queen likely married an Orrian or Ascalonian noble who was able to trace his or her lineage to Doric. It’s not uncommon. Furthermore, we’ve not once seen it said that the Thorn family were related to King Doric.

Tuomir.1830:

Corrupted by power? No. Protect his people with a powerful artifact entrusted to him for that very purpose? Yes. After magic was given out to use freely, Tyria was engulfed in war, so a plenty of chance for him to make a mistake when using the staff.

Right here, you state that your theory is wrong. It is outright stated that BOTH kings went mad with power and they caused those “horrors” – that’s why they were struck down by the gods themselves. If Doric didn’t go mad with power, then he’s not the king talked about. If he’s not the king talked about, then the staves weren’t given to an Orrian king during his reign.

Tuomir.1830:

Yes, this is a conflicting part – yet, it can be explained in a few ways. One would be that human history telling didn’t want to see their greatest hero being struck down by their gods, so a tale of sacrifice was made. Another would be that the undoing of the horrors unleashed required the death of the one responsible for it, so Doric offered himself to the gods.

You should stop stretching, you might pull something.

Tuomir.1830:

Yes, this is the oddest, yet perhaps the most crucial point of the puzzle, and the starting point of the theory – why was the Scepter of Orr found there? Mazdak was the first king of Kryta, so perhaps he wanted to be buried near his land? I do not know. But crypt being built on older crypts and burial sited isn’t so uncommon – it could be that later Krytan royalty sought to be buried near the legendary king Doric. For what reason Doric was buried there, I can’t say, but him being there would explain why the Scepter was there.

Except that the Scepter of Orr was not in the crypt of the king it was initially buried with. Why it’s there is a complete mystery and you’re stretching majorly to explain it as Doric’s tomb when you have no reason to.

Edit: One thing I’ve been forgetting, is that you’re also making a different huge presumption which I’ve failed to bring up as a counter-argument before. You’re presuming that the “great nations” were human nations. So not only do we have no indication of time for these leaders, but we don’t know what kind of “rulers” they were (the only term used to describe the wielders is “rulers”), and we don’t even know what race said rulers were.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Konig, would that be from Medina’s comment on the no risen karka thread?

That was one of two places. The avoiding Orr part, but iirc, there was mention of a social structure elsewhere.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

we have no reason to believe that those steam creatures were capable of accessing this world without our intervention.

The Mecha Steamportal or w/e it’s called – the PoI – is a permanent Steam Portal opened to let the steam creatures through. All that was needed was to get enough through to build that, then bam, they can open the portals themselves.

Tuomir.1830:

However, these events had to overlap, happening in both Elona and Tyria at the same or nearly the same time, and they had to be major enough to warrant the intervention of the gods. Looking at the timeline, only AE 0 matches. Of course, as you said, undated events are still a possibility.

Under the large presumption that these “horrors” were recorded in the timeline, you’d be correct that there’s no recorded event that is related to the same timeframe, except The First Guild War and the Scarab Plague, though this is only a possible comparison. Or alternatively, the Guild Wars and the Great Corsair Wars.

However, the actions of leaders in Tyria and Elona are heavily overlooked compared to Cantha – we really only got GW1 leaders, Doric, and Thorn, so using the timeline isn’t very reliable when looking for leaders who did cruel things. And we only know of so many Canthan leaders (which still isn’t that many) thanks to the uniquely written An Empire Divided lore document provided in the Factions Prima Guide.

So your argument isn’t very sound, truth be told, simply because there’s too many “unknowns.” Of what we know, sure, but we only know roughly 5% of the royalty from 205 BE to 1075 AE. And even then, we have absolutely no indication what the wars caused in 1 BE were, who they were between, or how devastating they were. We have indications that it was possibly civil wars, we have indications that it was between human nations, and we have indications that it was between humans and non-humans. It likely was all of the above, but I fail to see how the power of magical staves would be more corruptive than the ultimate magical power in of itself. In fact, given the state of magic in 1 BE, I’d say that is the time when it is LEAST likely for the staves to have led two kings into going mad with power, simply because they’d have that much power with or without.

If we look at notorious leaders, I can name three off of the top of my head: King Thorn of Kryta, Prince Alhazred of Orr, and King Jahnus of Elona. Though obviously the first and last didn’t live in the same timeframe (though Thorn and Joko did, and Joko was an “up and coming prince” though I’d hardly say from a great nation given that was the Shattered Dynasty Era). The point I’m making in naming these three is: we have no indication of either prior to meeting the NPC itself, and even then we have no indication if they’re the sole individuals like them, let alone when they lived.

Tuomir.1830:

So in effect, we don’t know the original elevation of the burial site of the staff, which may well have been on dry ground.

You’re making two shots in the dark. First with presuming “because it’s not mentioned on the timeline we have, it didn’t happen” and second with presuming “it could have been on an island in the middle of an inland sea.” Both hold no standings of support, and you’re having as much foundation for your theory as one has for claiming sylvari are Elder Dragons, or the Six Gods were born directly from the Mists at the dawn of time.

-more in next post; Anet, please lengthen the 5001 limit-

Really, it was just that they’re smart – not your standard wildlife. I don’t really remember all of it, but what I know for certain was that they were smart enough to avoid approaching Orr (most wildlife doesn’t seem capable of differentiating dragon corruption as seen in Sparkfly Fen). I think it was mentioned they have a social structure, but I am unsure on this.

The “LP steam creatures” as you call them come from steam portals – these portals share the same model and are unique unto the final Infinity Ball’s usage, if memory serves me correct. The Steam creatures hold no other known origin, and they’re definitely not a natural occurrence. Furthermore, the “future asura PC” held the intention of conquering the past – I doubt he would only send his forces to one place in the past after he supposedly conquered all of Tyria with those steam creatures.

Certainly, its possible that they hold differing origins – even if it’s simply “another possible future that also had steam creatures.” But all things point to it being simply that: from one of the possible futures, created by a crazed asuran overlord that was just too epic to contain himself.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Some of it’s kitten inhumane. The Heart that takes you through Metrica Province, gathering Skritt for a group-intelligence test, has you beating them down when they were just minding their own business in a cave.

That’s not inhumane, nor is it cruel.

It’s rude, yes, but not inhumane. Inhumane would be like poisoning their food to see how the poison affects skritt. Roughing them a bit to get their (unwilling) cooperation then asking them a bunch of questions after they’ve healed is far from inhumane.

-from previous post-

Tuomir.1830:

They were given to “the great nations of the world”, and I’m going assume Cantha is not included, or there are more staffs with similar powers, given to Canthan emperor and the Primeval King of the time. Margonites were likely at the height of their pre-fall civilization right before the fall, so I’d call them a great nation. History of Tyria describes King Doric as “the leader of the united human tribes”, which frankly doesn’t leave space for more kingdoms on the continent at the time. Kryta wasn’t established until 300 AE by Elona, and became a kingdom 58 years later. So, Mazdak was likely chosen as a king for legitimacy reasons at that time (the talk about when" humanity was as young as the sylvari" being rather inaccurate) , as he, as all the royal lines in Tyria, was supposedly of Doric’s line. Tyrians love their Doric.

A few things:

1. The Margonites were never really called a large or powerful nation. They had a king – one we know of, Khimaar, who would likely be the one that was the king in 0 AE (if your theory is right, then his predecessor had the Staff of the Mists). However, I’d hardly call them one of “the great nations” – if there were only 2 gifts to great nations, one would suspect only 2 great nation. While I’d say Cantha is a great nation, its distance likely cut it from candidacy of the staves. Thus of the four nations (Kryta, Orr/Ascalon, Margonite, and Elona), it’d be Elona (Primeval Kings at the time) and Orr (King Doric) who’d get it.
2. Doric is outright and fully – from start to end – considered a benevolent ruler. He doesn’t seem like someone who was corrupted by power.
3. It’s said that the gods had to intervene. This screws up your DOric part of the theory, as your theory says he voluntarily gave it up. The two lines of thought clash – they wouldn’t have HAD to intervene and strike down the rulers if Doric volunteered to bringing an end to all this.
4. The Kryta we know was established in 300 AE. However, Mazdak was the first king of Kryta and from Orr. Furthermore, Orrian History Scrolls tell us that humans established Kryta during Doric’s reign. Lion’s Arch was also first established as King Doric’s summer home. This means that Kryta was established as a human nation twice.

Tuomir.1830:

And about Majesty’s Rest – History of Tyria tells how humans “chased the druids from the jungle” within a century of the arrival of humans on continental Tyria. I’m going to build a bit of a bridge here, but that could mean human tribes pushing their way to the edge and into Maguuma, the area covering Majesty’s Rest. It wouldn’t be impossible that the ruler of said tribes, and their first king, would be buried there.

I wouldn’t put too much weight on the History of Tyria, given its ahem history of being wrong. Based on my observations of Bloodtide Coast and Sparkfly Fen, and given the name “North Krytan Province” – the early Krytan settlements didn’t stretch very far. Their first king was buried on northern Gendarran, and Bloodtide Coast and Sparkfly Fen are riddled with ruins of both Krytan and Orrian ties (sometimes right adjacent to each other). This shows to me that the earliest Krytan kingdom reached from Gendarran Fields (known as North Krytan Province in GW1) all the way south to Sparkfly Fen. We also know that in 300 AE, Kryta’s spread (colonization by Elona) saw the centaurs pushed out – this gives a heavy implication that the centaurs made their home in modern Harathi Hinterlands, Kessex Hills, and Queensdale – all three of which having been under Krytan territory no later than roughly 800 AE.

I don’t think that the humans pushed that far west for burying their dead, when Kryta’s first king who was alive in the -1st century Mazdak was buried in Gendarran Fields. And to note again: Majesty’s Rest’s central tomb is the one where Krytan royalty is buried. The side crypt structure, where the Scepter of Orr was taken from, holds no recognition.

Tuomir.1830:

Well, Shiny and Kuunavang were saltspray dragons, with no known connection to Elder Dragons, unlike Glint.

Not particularly true. There are indications from interviews that Kuunavang is also a dragon champion.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I’d also like to know how intelligent some of the monsters/creatures are, particularly the karka, imps, steam creatures, riders, skale, and troll.

Well, the karka are outright said to be very intelligent. And steam creatures have enough intelligence to speak, but they seem to be on par to golems. Steam creatures don’t count as a race, as they’re basically cyborgs created by a possible future version of asura player characters who did Infinity Ball storyline.

Lokheit.7943:

I know it’s wishful thinking, but my theory is that Jormag spit it and imprisioned him rather than digest it. I think there are hints here and there for a possible return, and seeing the Owl Shaman in Cragstead talking about that got me thinking again about it. Pure speculation, of course, but I have this feeling we will see him returning, maybe even in the future see an Eliten Racial Owl form.

Elder Dragons devour magic.

Souls appear, to my observations, to be a form of energy. Magic is energy.

In other words, Owl is exactly the kind of supreme meal of an Elder Dragon. Just like the other Spirits of the Wild and the Six Gods would be. I cannot see at all Jormag spitting it out. It’s like being a person who absolutely loves seafood, yet spits out finely cooked and season lobster despite it having nothing wrong with it. And being hungry at the time, at that, given how Jormag ate Owl not long after waking (5 years, I think it was said, was the time the norn knew Jormag was coming, so it was about that long).

Also, Owl is a she.

Tuomir.1830:

If the calamities brought by the misuse of the twin staves would have happened any other time, wouldn’t it have made a mark in history?

Read the quest lines again. It merely says “horrors” – no description to it. There are dozens of unexplained historical events that could consistute as “horrors” (Scarab Plague, to name one tied to the Primeval Kings), and several undated events that held strong problems – like the supposed pursecution of druids, or why the Orrian-born Krytans disappeared from the face of history for the land to be resettled in 300 AE. There’s the beginnings of the human-centaur war left as a HUGE blank – 700 years worth, more or less. Then don’t forget that we have the off-and-on three decades long wars known as “The Guild Wars” with no date tied to the first whatsoever (just “after 0 AE”).

We have a lot of unexplained dated events, and a lot of undated historical events.

Tuomir.1830:

unless the Staff of the Mists was owned by the Margonite king, the staff wouldn’t have ended up in Desolation.

Doesn’t change the fact that this so-called tomb would be underwater, or on the edge of the water, if that king was buried in 0 AE.

Tuomir.1830:

And Margonites did build in Crystal Sea, see Temple of the Six Gods.

1) Not Margonite origin. Its origin is unknown and, imo, most likely Forgotten.

2) Shore of the Crystal Sea, but location unknown. The Desolation and the Crystal Desert were part of the sea, with supposedly some of the Desolation being the shore. It’s suspected that the temple of the Six Gods was at the Mouth of Torment, but fully unproven and, imo, unlikely since that’s where Abaddon was struck down (the suspicion comes from the two having similar sizes and circular shapes).

3) We know for a fact the Crystal Sea had islands (see the scriptures of Abaddon about Jadoth). However, where the Staff of the Mists was buried (which, oddly, I don’t recall a single structure but an Abaddon Shrine of more recent designs) was not on that high of a land. Also keep in mind that the reason the sea became a desert is because the ground was raised – i.e., it’s impossible to tell how high the elevation of different portions was, and it’s unlikely it was all evenly lifted (impossible, I’d say, to create the current effect at the borders).

-more in next post-

Indeed, the Lionguard first care about the safety of their jurisdiction. Bribes come second.

Keep in mind that the Lionguard and the Captain’s Council are not directly one and the same. Magnus just happens to be the leader of the Lionguard and a member of the Council, but that’s not always so. Though I don’t doubt that in the end, the Captain’s Council can give the final say in Lionguard matters.

Never played WoW, wouldn’t know.

-continued from last post-

1. Third fallacy with the staves you’re making about their origin is that they’re made from modern history (read: human civilization timeframe). Gven how they control the metaphysical (Scepter of Orr – supposedly) and the physical (Staff of the Mists), they seem to me to be of either early human origins (Scepter of Orr sounds like a good Ritualist’s tool), or from before then: used by the mursaat (pros at the metaphysical magic) and another elder race. That’s all theorycrafting though, but the main point is that we have no clue of their origins – just their history as of being gifted to two great nations at some point in time, and created before 0 AE.
2. You’re wrong on the Margonites – there’s no known structures of the Margonites within the Desolation. In fact, the only known structures of them are their ships, turned into towers at Thirsty River. There is no temple of the Margonites that remain from 0 AE. None. You’re probably thinking of the Great Margonite Temple – however, this is a renovation job done during 1075 AE.
3. “So, the Staff of the Mists, staff used to control the physical world, was owned by an ancient Margonite King.” Just to iterate: not necessarily so, as you made a couple mistakes with your deduction to this. The Margonites knew where it was, but none of the so-called “Margonite Temples” were necessarily there since 0 AE. It is more likely to have been buried with the Primeval Kings, as you made the presumption that the corruption was during the great wars of 1 BE, and not after. Besides, if you were to be right about the Margonites having the Staff of the Mists at the time of turmoil, the king would have been buried underwater.
4. King Doric wasn’t the only king, actually. Mazdak was king of Kryta, the Primeval Kings were separate, and they certainly weren’t part of Cantha. Margonites seemed to have their own king at the time: Khimaar. So there was, technically, 4 kings at the time – at least – and one emperor of Cantha. King Doric was just the king of united Tyria. So he was likely a “Highking” (there is a place in Arah talking about Lowborn Kings, iirc) who ruled over the other kings. Alternatively, he was just the king of Orr and Ascalon, with a summer home in Kryta, but no more. Nice theory about him though. But again, nothing truly indicates that the poor use of the staves were during 1 BE.
5. I think Doric was buried at Doric’s Shrine, in Malchor’s Leap, given the skill point and PoI there (and Eye of Zhaitan, which I wouldn’t doubt to have been Doric himself), or alternatively in the casket skill point in the royal tombs, Cursed Shore – I doubt he was buried in the side tomb of unknown contents in Majesty’s Rest which your theorycrafting would have.

jheryn.8390:

draxynnic.3719:

jheryn.8390:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

jheryn.8390:

5. What happened to the various different undead? Hell Hound, Necrid Horsemen, Ghouls, Bone Dragons, Executioners

Wiped out when the first Orrian undead were taken care of.

This is probably the only one I don’t agree with. They may have been wiped out in Tyria, but they should still be crawling all over Orr. Orr, I am sure had horsemen, dogs, clerics, etc. Maybe the clerics and executioners could be now known as shamans/priests and abominations, but the horsemen and hell hounds should still be there.

One reasonably common theory is that the Vizier may have selectively grabbed what he thought would be the most powerful undead for his force – including the dragons, cavalry, and Orr’s standing army in general. This would also explain why Zhaitan’s army seems to have so little in the way of conventional soldiery (you also don’t see any archers in Zhaitan’s army but Khilbron’s was full of them, for instance).

Ok, I can buy this, but completely wiped out without running into ANY in Orr? I’m not quite buying that. The Vizier surely would have picked up one of the undead giants too would he not. I’m not complaining, it just seems to be a little inconsistent. I think maybe developers were a little more worried about they types of undead they needed in Orr rather than continuity with undead in GW1.

I’m with the theory that they were all taken out of Orr at the time, which seems to be the case. Because otherwise, we’d be seeing Bone Dragons too – but there’s a huge difference between the Bone Dragons (which lacked flesh more or less) and the dragon champions.

As to the giants: not all of the Risen in Orr are from Orr. Keep in mind that the Risen bring in shipments of corpses for corruption. And then there’s those like the corsairs who wandered into Orr after Khilbron was dead, taking refuge in the shattered islands.

Lokheit.7943:

Oh, I nearly forgot, I want to know if my theory of Owl being imprisioned in the mists (Jormag is already taking troops into the mist) is correct, specially since in F&F they suddenly added an Owl Shaman in the reconstruction of Cragstead (a mostly wolf devoted stead so it surprised me to find an Owl shaman) talking about his hope of making it come back if he spreads its wisdom it got me thinking if it was a sign of things to come.

That sounds more like wistful thinking, to me. Owl wouldn’t be trapped in the Mists, however, but in Jormag’s belly. And it’s possible Owl is still inside Jormag, slowly being devoured over the years.

In GW1, a scarab had devoured some spirits 200 years prior to the game. We free them in GW1 during the quest Family Soul – so two standard spirit eaten by a magical and old scarab queen takes over two centuries to digest. A Spirit of the Wild? May take longer.

But I bet Owl would be corrupted after 150 years in Jormag’s gut.

Tuomir.1830:

-snip-

Not gonna go quote individual points so…

1. Almost all lore on the druids come from out-of-universe sources: outpost descriptions. Or fro the druids themselves, of the Avatar of Dwayna. That’s infallable (as far as we’ve ever seen), first hand, and really knowledgable sources (respectively) there. I wouldn’t doubt them – especially not heavily.
2. Regarding Majesty’s Rest: the central crypt, where Rotscale was, is the royal crypt. As can be seen with the Primeval Kings, some royalty (especially those of Elonian origins, like Majesty’s Rest would be) have a thing for burying their dead way outside of their kingdom. National wise, Kryta didn’t stretch that far except for some outskirt housings or towns.
3. As to why the Scepter ended up there – I’d go first by drax’s guess of Glint moving it, since she seems to at the end of the campaign too – as she compiled the Flameseeker Prophecies and at the same time pulled puppetmaster (almost?) over the campaign. I wouldn’t, however, guess that it “returned to its original owner.” Two reasons:
   1. Kryta didn’t exist until 300 AE, but the gods’ intervention implies prior to 0 AE.
   2. Scepter of Orr implies that the nation that on was given to was Orr, not Kryta.
4. Your timeline arument has a hole. While the Six Gods left Tyria in 0 AE, they – or some – did return later for periodic visits.
   [quote]Karei was a powerful healer who lived seven hundred years ago. For most of his life, he tended a small village in northern Cantha, curing ills and setting broken bones, refusing pay and accepting only food and basic supplies from the community. One day a wealthy Canthan noble and his small entourage passed by Karei’s village and were attacked by bandits in the nearby woods. The noble suffered a grievous wound, and after killing the bandits, his guards brought him to Karei, who healed him easily. When the wealthy man attempted to pay him in gold, the Monk refused. Next the noble offered Karei employment on his lavish estate; again the Monk refused. Finally, the noble offered to give the Monk great powers that would make him a god among men, but Karei would not be moved. Smiling, the noble stood and let his cloak fall away, and as he did, he was transformed into a beautiful woman. The goddess Dwayna herself stood before Karei and placed a hand upon his head. “Thrice I have tempted you and thrice you have resisted. I choose you.” Called by his goddess, Karei could not refuse his new appointment as Master of the Kaziin Monastery, where he lived out his days training young Monks and healing any sick or broken who came his way. Upon his death, Dwayna herself inducted him into Tahnnakai.[/quote]http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Karei
5. Another failpoint with your timeline data is that magic existed prior to 1 BE, it’s just that it was highly limited. See the various Scriptures of the Gods, Ritualists, and the true history of the Bloodstone revealed in GW2 for this. Theory-wise, I suspect that magic is a constantly-created thing in the world, hence why the Elder Dragons can consume it all before slumbering multiple times – it will just grow back. With such an assumption in mind, the Bloodstone would contain all magic from one point in time, but magic would simultaneously slowly return.

-more in next post-

The bandits are backed by the White Mantle – a group of tyrannical theocratical oppressors.

Bandits are disillusioned into wanting anarchy – not a republic or democracy, not a government “by the people for the people” – they want no government at all. And that’s not really good. Thing is, they’re being tricked. They believe Jennah is a tyrant for whatever reason, and those they’re supporting are the true oppressors.

Caudecus is just wanting power for himself, but his PR is exactly what you’re claiming. And as such, you’re just among those citizens who were bought by his lies.

This is, of course, ignoring the bandits’ alliance with the Inquest, Nightmare Court, and centaurs – or their actions of enslaving both skritt and humans to give them to the Inquest/Nightmare Court and Centaurs respectively. Far from what you would call a good-guy, right?

Onto the skritt experimentation – they’re not slaves, really, but test subjects. Thing is, the only testing done is a bunch of IQ tests. Yes, they’re tricked into becoming subjects, but they’re far from slaves, nor are the testing inhumane. Though the asura are skewed in their views of the skritt, thinking of them as vermin (no pun intended), but they’re still not being cruel to them. As to keeping them apart – you didn’t do the event that’s there, have you? Where they group the skritt together to see how smart they can get… where the skritt then go and start attacking everyone at the lab.

With Southsun Cove – I can’t say much because I haven’t played the content yet, but from my understanding you can help out the Consortium OR you can help out the settlers. This is where you’re chosing between two grays – help the corporation that’s wanting money, and doing so by helping others but are forcing their help onto them even if not wanted, or help the refugees who lost everything but are now causing problems because they’re being helped in the wrong way. Neither side is good, neither side is evil.

But again, I haven’t done that content yet.

For the dredge – that’s their own kitten fault, to be honest. Yes, they were enslaved. Yes, they’re fighting not do so again, however:

1. They’re fighitng those who have no qualm against them, to the point where they become the hostile forces.
2. They’re refusing to let go of old grudges, wanting to kill “the last of the oppressors” (Ogden) despite Ogden never having been part of the oppressors, and are willing to kill anyone and destroy anything to get that goal done.
3. They’re strip mining the lands, laying claim to anything they can and kicking out and oppressing other natural inhabitants (e.g., skritt and grawl).
4. And most importantly, their own leaders have become corrupt, working with the Inquest, Flame Legion, or even enslaving their own kind just to get more power themselves.

The dredge are a “sympathetic evil” race – they had a ton of bad luck, which has caused them to backlash on everyone else. You don’t want to fight them, but they give you no choice.

tl;dr: You’re wrong on the bandits, and seem to be the gullible type that Caudecus is targeting… have fun joining the bandits to kidnap and kill people!

But on Souhsun Cove and the dredge, IMO this is exactly how Anet should do things. They want you to be the hero, but having some “morally questionable choices” to do – things you can avoid or do or work against – only adds to the experience of an MMO. Not everyone enjoys playing the goodie two-shoes figures. Some folks love playing anti-hero figures.

Randulf.7614:

I idlely speculated maybe shatterer could be offspring from Glint.

The Shatterer, unlike other Branded, is hollow. Most Branded’s insides are crystallized and shimmering, however the Shatterer’s insides are transparent and electrical. Furthermore, the skin of living beings turn gray when Brandified, whereas the Shatterer’s “skin” is blackish, much like the twisted ground.

The Shatterer was, by all appearances, created from the land and air itself.

Blur.3465:

I also wonder when and if we will be able to see the huge hole in Crystal Desert where Kralkatorrik fell…

That’s not where Kralkatorrik fell – that was Glint’s sanctuary, where Destiny’s Edge and Glint fought Kralkatorrik.

Blur.3465:

A part of personal story where you get to ride one of these against Kralkatorrik would be awesome… o.o

I once made an idle suggestion in some “how would you like the Elder Dragon fights to be” for the post-Zhaitan fights. My suggestion for Kralkatorrik was that he went through the Tomb of the Primeval Kings portal (which was right north of Glint’s lair) and invaded the Hall of Heroes; so we follow through to see a semi-corrupted HoH, where we go into an aerial battle over the pockets of Mists within the Rift, fighting Kralkatorrik while using Glint’s children as mounts using the mechanics of environmental weapons, improved.

It would indeed be awesome.

@OP: In short: no. There are some throw away lines here and there about unnamed distance places, no bigger than a paragraph, but that’s about it.

Ludovicus.7980:

There’s one place I know: Utopia.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Utopia

There’s absolutely nothing to say Utopia is canon to lore. Moreso since elements of Utopia was re-used in the Tarnished Coast elements of Eye of the North.

Gandarel.5091:

You always try to prove me wrong but no sir, you fail.

We know the asura ad norn races for GW1, they were added in EotN to bring us closer tothem, yes, for the purpose of being playeable. We could even witness the birth of the Pale Tree in Gw1, so another connection. If largos would be the same, shouldn’t we know more about them or play a more important part? Or devs would care more about them.

As you say, they were added to be playeable. But largos? Very new race to the lore, very few impact, and yes, they do avoid contact with other races if they can.

Maybe one day we will visit the largos territory, but won’t play them.

I wouldn’t say I always do, but in this repeated matter, certainly:

Yes, we knew of asura and norn since Eye of the Nort, but as you agree with, for the sole intention of becoming a playable race in Guild Wars 2. That was the point I made which you did not disagree with, and the same could be done to Largos, who were added in the initial release just to be made playable some expansion(s) later.

In Eye of the North, we got just about as much of norn and asuran culture – and less of sylvari culture – as we do of largos culture during the initial release – which was already expanded a bit with The Lost Shores and the Ascended amulet.

I wouldn’t say that the largos hide from other races. The skill challenge guy does seem to wish to keep himself secretive, but not so much the others. Sayeh stays hidden not to keep herself from others, but to paraphrase Trahearne: her presence unsettles others. The largos in Orr are all very open, only hiding from their kills to take them out when they’re ready – no different than an assassin or ninja on the job.

By culture, they’re stealthy, but that’s not the same as “hiding from other races” – that’s them “hiding from their targets.” Unless, as Sayeh says, it is part of their plan to announce their presence to their targets.

We actually learn a lot of largos culture for those who choose the fear “bringing harm to another” in the personal story, where you interact a lot with Sayeh – if you talk to her at every chance, you learn almost about as much of their culture as we knew of asuran culture in Eye of the North. Add on the lore we get from the others elsewhere, and you get about as much as we knew of norn culture in Eye of the North.

In the end, your main argument seems to be their isolation – which isn’t true, there’s just not many out there and they hide from their targets, not other races – and their newness, which similarly isn’t true given the norn, asura, and sylvari all being brand new and only introduced one release prior to becoming playable (which could easily end up being the same for largos).

In my opinion, the largos are being introduced in the same style that the sylvari were. Itty tidbits in their initial reveal, just to get a huge chunk of lore shortly before becoming playable.

Tuomir.1830:

Which is why I believe it would be possible a remote settlement of Margonites, untouched by the events of BE 1 and AE 0, could have survived somewhere across the sea. In fact, my train of thought leads me to think that the people of Guild Wars Utopia could have been originally Margonites of old. After all, Margonites were extraordinary sailors.

There were indeed some Margonites that weren’t “gifted” by Abaddon. These Margonites are those we hear about in the Crystal Desert in GW1. They attempted Ascension, turning their ships into towers in Thirsty River when the desert was formed, but were ultimately killed off by the Forgotten at an unknown time. Margonite civilization collapsed overall, though, in 0 AE.

Margonites definitely became wiped out, as they faded into mythology to the known world. Only Turai Ossa and the ghosts of the Crystal Desert knew they weren’t myths prior to Nightfall.

Tuomir.1830:

-snips-

The History of Tyria does seem to give that kind of indication, however, we are outright told druids were humans in two places, one of which is in the Aurora Glade outpost description I quoted before which said "_"A long time ago, a tribe of human druids ventured into the jungle to make peace with the jungle._ The other source is a blog post by Matthew Medina, the section written from an in-universe standpoint.

The druids are said to be followers of Melandru, and I always suspected they may have ties to Ewan’s tribe.

As to Majesty’s Rest – that’s actually not in Maguuma, but on the outskirts of Kryta – within a Krytan crypt at that. And as to how it got there, it’s unknown, BUT it was only there in the past year (it was lost in1071 AE, found in 1072 AE), as it was within Orr until the Cataclysm. Though it’s said to have been buried in crypts by the Gods due to the kingdoms’ which wielded the twin staves abusing their powers, apparently the Scepter of Orr was excavated while the Staff of the Mists was not (and apparently buried with the Primeval Kings since they’re the only ones known to have been buried in the Desolation, which no doubt aided in it being left alone).

The Scepter of Orr?
“Recently, a group of White Mantle scholars uncovered what they believe to be the Scepter of Orr, a powerful artifact once possessed by King Reza, the last king of Orr.”

How did it get lost in the first place?
“In the year 1062 AE, the Charr invaded all three human kingdoms. The continent of Tyria was in turmoil. The scepter was lost somewhere between when the Charr attacked Ascalon and when they reached the borders of Orr. Those who knew of its whereabouts were all killed in the Cataclysm. You see, when the Charr reached the Orrian capital city of Arah, the entire nation exploded in a flash of blinding light. Some say it was the vengeful wrath of the old gods. These days, though, only fools believe in the powers of Grenth, Balthazar, and the rest of the false pantheon. The more rational thinkers among the White Mantle believe the Cataclysm was the work of foul black magic, dragged form the forbidden tombs deep below the streets of Arah.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mantle_Knight_Karriya

Side note: the mention of 1062 is likely a typo of 1072, which in turn is likely a mistake intending to be 1070 (when the charr actually attacked all three nations).

One final note: the History of Tyria has been proven wrong in various places – though mainly concerning Abaddon and the origins of the world itself, but this may be yet another where the wording implies druids != humans.

So in the end, nice theorycrafting, but I suggest you do a bit more digging first. (Though first, you should probably read all sources I provide first, rather than focusing on the first source alone)

We hunted animals for sport, chased the druids from the jungle, and took up residence in lands that did not belong to us.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria

A long time ago, a tribe of human druids ventured into the jungle to make peace with the jungle.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aurora_Glade_%28outpost%29

That’s all we really have on the matter of their traveling. Slap those two facts, add in Mazdak and the history of Kryta, and my suspicion is a continuation of drax’s theory about Kryta’s history – his theory being that when magic was granted by Abaddon, Kryta suffered a major devastating event that’s unrecorded to history hence why it seems to hold a 300 year historical gap. I’d further said theory in saying the original inhabitants were forced into the Maguuma Jungle to survive, effectively becoming the druids. We already know that Old Krytan existed back then, as Malchor used it, which the druids used. So it all fits. And if it were other humans which caused that devastating event, it’d match the oddness of the History of Tyria’s line – that humans chased druids from a jungle (from one jungle into another?).

Their magic seems more akin to the sylvari’s magic that grows plants, given the growing vine bridges and the supposedly-Druidic “houses” that look like glowing plants shaped like homes.

Yeah, I doubt a fully purified Orr too. Not for years to come.

However, slowly seeing new uncorrupted trees in specific locations starting from The Artesian Waters throughout Orr? Just little patches of non-corruption out in Orr? That sounds like fun.

Tuomir.1830:

2. The Druids. Who were they, really? We know so little of them.

They were Krytan humans who were forced into the Maguuma Jungle at some point in the past. There, they tended to the jungle, nurturing it and protecting it, until one day between 970 and 1060 AE they decided to no longer be human and became those ethereal treants.

Tuomir.1830:

5. The giant warrior statue in Crystal Desert. Who built it? Margonites? Turai Ossa’s pilgrimage?

Given the Duke Barradin’s crypt, and the heads found in The Catacombs in GW1, those seem to be Ascalonian in origin. Keep in mind that Ascalonians had some degree of explorers sent through the Crystal Desert into the Desolation – some found dead within Glint’s lair, and some ghosts found within The Desolation on excavations. Turai also mentions 2 groups following the Elonians, and we know of 4 groups who had spent time in the Crystal Desert: Margonites (way before Elonians), Elonians, Seekers, and Ascalonians.

It’s not confirmed, but it seems those giant statues are of Ascalonian origin.

Swizzle.7982:

1) What did the gods message to kerrsh mean:

“An offering to those who seek”
“Beyond the mists beyond the dreams”
“On distant shores of a land unwaking”
“Answers there lie in waiting”

If you think of mists as mist on the sea, it points to Orr, but there weren’t many answers there about the eternal alchemy. So perhaps it means the actual mists, but how can there be anything beyond the mists.

Jeff Grubb side-ways confirmed it was about Arah (aka, he said it may be pointing to Arah – he often puts everything accurate in “maybe-s” and “possible-s”), which does answer questions about the elder races and the Six Gods’ history.

jheryn.8390:

3. When did Ogden decide to go through the transformation?

Within 50 years, every dwarf had undergone the transformation. I know it’s not an exact “when” but it does give you a 49 year timeframe (1079 AE to 1128 AE).

jheryn.8390:

4. What happened to the other Tyrian Heroes? Olias, Livia, Hayda, Anton, Vekk, Xandra, Kahmu

We can find Anton’s ghost. I forget where though, but one can find him in-game. He’s in Gendarran Fields, I think…

jheryn.8390:

5. What happened to the various different undead? Hell Hound, Necrid Horsemen, Ghouls, Bone Dragons, Executioners

Wiped out when the first Orrian undead were taken care of.

Calcifire.1864:

the getting ingame thing would help a LOT, quite a few things have been revealed via the achievments and flavour text

Canach...

hide spoiler

may have been causing problems intentionally, one of the rewad items states that it’s the device canach used to poison the island

The Karka Queen...

hide spoiler

DOES exist and we’ll have to defeat her at some point (I wonder if she’ll be a hive style queen or a royalty style queen?)

The Karka...

hide spoiler

apparently have unusual properties, the sclerite weapons and the tentacle backpiece are made of karka mats

Yes, as the posts right above yours, above my response to them, pointed out.

As stated, I can’t get in-game. I’m out of town and my laptop cannot run Guild Wars 2… or at least, I’d rather not risk my low-rig laptop blowing up for this content.

@BlueSoda: ArenaNet explicitly stated back in 2009 that they want centaurs to be a “black race” – a race that’s enemies through and through. Plus, they were having problems thinking of how to make them work with the armor and underwater content (horses may swim, but you can’t really get them going sideways while submerged and the like).

Gandarel.5091:

Largos -1% chance to be playeable. They are newer to the lore than the sylvari, we haven’t even know they exist until GW2 release. And they prefer to hide from the world, live in the water and do skirmishes, not a good material for a playeable rce.

Your argument fails.

Norn, asura, and sylvari were all added just to be playable races. Largos could easily be the same.

They don’t hide from the world, they’re just not common in continental Tyria for now – no different than how asura and norn were uncommon in continental Tyria prior to Eye of the North.

In other words, the Largos now is little different than 3 of the 5 playable races.

We see Trahearne’s ritual taking instantaneous effects within the Artesian Waters. The corruption will be purified as quickly as the risen are prevented from re-spreading corruption.

So it very well may be that Orr is mostly purified in the story. However, interesting fact: the Temple of Melandru has blooming trees like those seen in The Source of Orr’s end regardless of its contested status. Thalador found this after the F&F: Retribution update went live. I think it was around longer, but I’m not sure.

So combined with Anet’s constant changes to risen making them slowly more decrepid looking… they may be slowly adding some purification to the Risen/Orr. And if these changes occur to lore alongside real time like Flame and Frost seems to, then we got less than a year and visible changes along the water currents, so only a few years at worst for Orr to be purified.

Edge of Destiny and all along the Dragonbrand is where our lore on Kralkatorrik lies. The wiki article of him summarizes it all pretty well. There’s concept art of him in the cinematic during Sorrow’s Embrace though.

It’s been a while since I heard the voice, not having a female charr character but having made one in the BWEs, but I don’t think it sounded too “mid-tone” or “human sounding” to me.

Honestly speaking, though, it’d be more than just humans charr would have a hard time hearing if they had such as hard a time as implied by Ree regarding their hearing middle frequencies.

Also: keep in mind it’s not tones, but frequencies of the sounds. Low pitch or high pitch doesn’t solely dictate the frequency of the sound. I think at least.

Anet really needs to work on their spoiling problem. I mean, we knew years before release that Zhaitan would be the primary antagonist… and now this. sigh

But its interesting nonetheless, and I’m curious how the personal nemesis falls into this – if she/he does.

This is probably better for the GW2 discussion forum, since this isn’t really about lore but gameplay.

Tengu: feather colors, feather plumage (the thickness and style), beak/tusk styles
Largos: “fin” patterns is all I can really think of other than the typical body/face/hair designs.

I’ll skip the facepalming part of your own post where you claim to be poor but spend your money on gems for a game.

Undeadkemea.4865:

I spent my remaining cash on 10 southsun supply crates, also nothing.

Undeadkemea.4865:

Why did it have to be RNG chests again

You answered your own question.

It’s RNG chests again because of poor gullable saps like you that pay for RNG chests regardless of your disdain for it. Anet doesn’t have monthly fees, and they get more money through RNG thanks to YOU. You want Anet to stop having RNG? Then stop buying their RNGs.

It’s really that simple. Anet isn’t some mustache twirling villain. They’re a company. They do what gets them money based on empirical data – and that data is saying “our fans are buying our RNG, and its getting us lots of money because they keep buying our RNG in hopes of getting that one item they want.”

You’re complaining about the problem, but the cause of it all boils down to you being among the cause of it.

Weapons won’t ever be dyable.

Human tier 3 cultural and Caudecus’ Manor are same skin, different dye (silver vs. gold). Sorrow’s Embrace and Asuran tier 1 are same skin, different dye (red vs. blue). Crucible of Eternity and Mystic are same skin, different dye (red vs. blue).

But I agree – backpacks and, equally importantly, aqua breathers should be dyable!

@JayMack: I don’t think the karka have queens in the sense of ants or bees (despite appearances, they are intelligent and sapient, they just don’t communicate or have opposable thumbs). We have seen an Ancient Karka, which would probably be the closest to a queen they have, but they’re just a thicker shell version of standard adult karka.

I haven’t done this living story phase (obviously). Is it already known what’s causing the aggravation? Revenge of the Secondborn?

And those tentacles… they’re looking quite a lot like the Jade Maw’s tentacles to me. I wonder of this means we’re going to have a giant kraken event in Southsun now. That’d be awesome. They don’t match perfectly, but they certainly don’t look DSD-like to me, since those are twisted waters as far as we know. But its interesting its related to karka… I’m curious as to where this will lead.

Wish I could get in game. >.<

Firstly, the deep sea dragon is said to dwell in the Unending Ocean, not the Sea of Sorrows. Two very different locations. The Sea of Sorrows’ only dragon minion activity was being full of risen – which is no longer the case as of his defeat which happened prior to The Lost Shores. The karka came from the Unending Ocean too, keep in mind – but they’re just an ancient deep sea waterlife. They’re only fleeing the deep sea dragon, much like the quaggan and, supposedly, the krait and largos did.

This said, the previous hostilities was, as said, caused by tampering with flora on the islands that Canach idiotically but unintentionally did (I wouldn’t say “orchestrated” as that implies some villainous intention – he was just surveying the island).

I haven’t gotten in-game due to being out of town, so I’d love to see pictures of these tentacles Tuomir mentioned, but something I found VERY interesting is the Sclerite weapons and backpiece.

Karka have nothing to do with tentacles as far as we know, yet the karka backpiece, prefixed Sclerite, has animated tentacles. The weapons to me look rather Cthulhu-mythos ish, and has black water dripping with rather odd oppearance, certainly not karka-like (or anything else I recall from Southsun) – to me at least. I wouldn’t doubt if they’re DSD themed.

The Pact’s primary focus is the Elder Dragons. Once you take out Jormag there’s nothing of direct interest to the Pact. Once you take out Primordus, unless there’s passages to Elona, there’s nothing of direct interest to the Pact there either.

Though I’m still on the notion that it’ll be remade into a “free country” – one with no racial ties, despite its historical relevency. Keep in mind that modern Orrians shun their heritage nowadays (though there’s one in the Priory that isn’t such), and Orr is viewed as little but a dark place. Such connotations are hard to remove after being around for multiple generations. Many of Krytan humans probably wouldn’t want Orr just simply due to all the necromantic relations it has. Not to mention that the Pact would probably spend quite some time quarantining it to ensure that all Risen get wiped out and the corruption’s gone before letting it be resettled.

Honestly, I doubt the Pact will take the full nation for itself – rather, it’ll likely just make a new fort somewhere akin to Fort Trinity for when they go after the deep sea dragon.

Still, historical relevance to the humans only goes so far. Your theory would only hold if Jennah wants Orr to become human land. Given her pro-peace with the charr status, which itself is an indication of “we don’t need Ascalon as human territory” regardless of the outcome, I wouldn’t doubt that she wouldn’t view a similar way to Orr.

Maybe the various priesthoods of the gods would want to move in, and turn Orr’s borders (aka where the temples are) into religious pilgrimage locations – but other than that, I don’t see any real human interest in Orr simply due to all the kitten that’s happened there in the past 250 years.

It’d be like someone wanting to go where a nuke got set off simply because his ancestors lived there for generations. A lot of people don’t really care about that kind of stuff – and those that do are often sufficed with simply knowing of what their ancestors did.

Vulpis.8063:

I keep hearing about this Ancient Karka event ending—I’m guessing from the descriptions, it was basically like the Maw, Fire Elemental, and similar events, cranked up to 11? If so, that I’d loved to have seen and been in, as that sounds like a properly epic way to end a storyline—or the life of an MMO, since it also sounds like what Paragon did on CoH’s last day.

If by “like the Maw […] cranked up to 11?” you mean in terms of lag and length, where populated dragon events are merely 2 in the scale, then yes.

The lag was so terrible that at times it took a full minute to use skill 1. Numerous people got kicked from all the lag at the end, missing the chest (though I’m told that Anet mended this by sending the kicked folks chest-like items).

Not only this, but due to the sheer huge amount of players, the scaling was ridiculously to the point where a single step (there were, what, 6 steps in the event?) took over 30 minutes. Didn’t help when folks wouldn’t listen to what needed to be done, since during certain steps the Ancient Karka was invulnerable.

The ending cinematic was epic, as well as the fact it ended in a cinematic, but the fight to that end was a grueling dull snorefest of a task that strained hundreds of computers across the globe. It may not have been if the scaling wasn’t brought up to such ridiculous levels or the lag was only half as bad (or less), or if people could be properly directed (there was about no one listening to those who knew wtf to do or when folks figured out what to do). Not to mention some steps were rather repetative – kill swarm, use boulders to weaken shell, attack karka, kill swarm, use boulders to weaken shell, attack karka, rinse repeat until its pushed to in front of the cannons.

It’s not really just Anet’s equipment, by the way, but that the computers in our own homes too – even good ones like mine had problems at minumum graphic settings.

Information I’m particularly interested in? Hell, all of it. But if I had to chose a top 10 or something, I guess I’d go with these:

1. Origins of humanity. Specifically, I’d like to know why they and the Six came to Tyria. Is my theory of fleeing a devastation correct? What exactly is with the confusion in the timeline about humanity supposedly being brought to the world at Orr, but being on Cantha 500+ years prior to any human recording of being on continental Tyria? Where is this supposed homeland that’s south of Cantha? I’d also love to know more on general historical lore – the further back we go, even in human history, except for when the Empire of the Dragon was born we get less and less records all the major clumps of known history pretty much at 200 years prior to GW1.
2. The previous Elder Dragon rise. There’s a lot of gaps in that still, despite how many dots we have connected. How long ago was it? What was the order of events (mursaat betrayal, forgotten freeing glint, making of the Bloodstones, etc.)? Why did the mursaat betray the others and nearly wipe out the Seers (particularly the second part) before fleeing the world? Why did they even return? Did the Forgotten truly come from the Mists by the Six’s request and if not then why are they so devout to them in the Realm of Torment?
3. History of the Six Gods. Specifically who Abaddon’s predecessor was, why Balthazar was carrying his father’s head, what was it that happened in the Mists that only Abaddon remembers, what’re Lyssa’s origins, what’s Menzies’ status in godhood, why was Dhuum an accepted god if he was so harsh (was he always so?), and why did Lyssa have to help others forget something?
4. What’s with the change between all the GW1 depictions of Grenth as an old man with a long beard/goat skull, but GW2’s new statue being that of a young muscular man in a helmet, little different than Balthazar?
5. What’s the story of the nations – such as who and when they were – that abused the power of the Scepter of Orr/Staff of the Mists? And what’re their origins?
6. I’d love to see how Cantha has progressed. Has it retained its tyrannical imperialism, or has Cantha followed its history of extreme emperors countered by their successors? Has it progressed in technology ala Industrial Revolution, or did it suffer the negative side of mercantilism like Spain? Is the empire still fully united? How much de-petrification has occurred?
7. Arachnia’s canonocity.
8. Palawa Joko’s origins.
9. Curious as to how much (and what) of what Thurln the Lost says is truth and what’s false.
10. Who is the Teller of Tales?

Eluveitie.1290:

3. Garrenhoff. Who’s this so called magician, that apparentely uses human souls in order to seal them inside elementals? With what purpose?

There’s no solid indication that he seals souls within those elementals. Just that they seem to be enslaved, and oddly sentient (though it may be simple misunderstanding to think that elementals aren’t sentient), and people are invited but never return. He may be doing something else – or nothing at all – with their souls. And elementals are, by nature, not docile beings.

Actually, the claim is that the civil wars happened after a threat to take away magic. Then the civil wars happened then magic was taken (during?).

Also, Elder Thruln is not only a storyteller, but the last of the Giant-Kings – according to the blog post, at least.

Well, with Quora Sum or the Far Shiverpeaks – the Pact wouldn’t hold as much strategic positioning in those places. There’s no benefit to making those areas multi-racial or permanently holding the placement except to continue exterminating remnant dragon minions.

Orr, however, is a prime port location, a good place to set off to fight the Deep Sea Dragon, or any other threats – even to sail to the western coast to get a pincer attack on Mordremoth should it wake in the Maguuma, or be a good place to launch an assault on Joko or Cantha should the need arise.

With the Barradin instance, I’d say that’s more a case of him just possessing something THAT large – the pure weight of the stone is what gives him the advantage, added onto the Foefire speciality.

For the Icebrood and other dragon minions – Icebrood get more elemental as time progresses, but take note that the Icebrood Colossi are actually very weak, and they’re just about the final stages of icebrood norn. For dragon minions, it’s actually “they become more draconic as they become more powerful” according to the Art of Guild Wars 2 – if I’m remembering correctly that is. Key note with that would be, for example, Risen Knights and the dragon champions or Branded Lieutenants.

As to the question part: I guess that makes sense, though asking the question “what do we do?” makes no sense, since we can do a lot of things. Rather, it’s not the question but the answer that’s out of place – the answer should be “we are the embodiment of magic” – which is what Oola herself says. In other words, the PC was answering in short, improper, form there.

As to Inquest powering golems with souls – that was, in my mind, one of the “etc. etc.” :P There are many more examples – and not just Inquest who power golems with souls (Oola did this to herself). There’s even the theory that Jade constructs of the mursaat were powered/animated by souls, given various reasons (namely the mursaat tokens and the direction of mursaat magic).

darkace.8925:

Is there not in-game lore that implies the fall of the Juton society is due to a past rising of the Elder Dragons?

The fall of jotun society is due to civil wars and in-fighting.

Whether this happened before or after or even during a previous last ED rise is unknown. We just know they were around for the last ED rise – and possibly more, since they studied the cycle of risings.