Guild Wars 2

The asura and norn likely learned the language from their dwarven allies, who very much knew the common language. Though the asura surfaced only 250 years ago, they had long standing relations with the dwarves for much longer, and there were even human stories which talked about the existence of asura – but they were largely fairy tales and such. There’s even the ancient surface city of Rata Pten that predates the Cataclysm, furthering the probability of asura having had communication with dwarves and humans – likely Orrians given location – in the past.

The spoken language is not Krytan, that refers to the written alphabet, which was made standard for all cooperating races by the Durmand Priory – though some still use their own language, mainly asura, Flame Legion, and Separatists. Naturally, non-cooperating races such as the dredge, krait, and centaurs utilize their own communicative methods as well, though they’ve learned the common spoken language as well (dredge and centaurs knew such centuries ago, krait likely learned it from their prisoners they’ve taken over the centuries).

The bigger question is how the quaggans learned the common tongue, since they only surfaced 50 years ago and were otherwise in the watery depths. Every other race has had some means of communication for centuries, indicating at least a minor knowledge of the language. Except for quaggan.

There’s an even bigger reason why currency in Tyria was centralized with LA’s rebuilding – Hao Luen the First, a former member of the Xunlai Guild, established the Arch Exchange, focused in rebuilt LA, which is the banking system seen in every racial city in GW2.

First thing to note is that a lot of the History of Tyria document from Prophecies has been retconned in one way or another. Most importantly: the gods did not create magic.

• The theory is that the Maguuma Bloodstone was Preservation, though it’s never proven, in large due to the Maguuma’s water’s healing properties. But based on S3, the crazed-ness is due to the immense amount of magic, rather than the type. Though it could go either way.
• The ley lines are from magic seeped out of the Elder Dragons and the Bloodstones – they were not perfect containers, per the journals.
• The Bloodstone’s magic has largely been reduced in terms of their restrictions, due to the magic released by the Elder Dragons. So the schools don’t fit much anymore, except as the immediate magic, maybe?
• The theory is that Preservation = Monk/Paragon, thus Guardian; Aggression=Necromancer; Denial=Mesmer/Assassin, thus Thief; Destruction=Elementalist (possibly Dervish). Only the Elementalist’s tie to school of magic was confirmed.
• Yes, there are problems… whole storyline of the game. As for how they can consume magic… Lazarus used some fancy ritual, the dragons naturally eat magic. Gods’ involvement is irrelevant there in that part.
• Since the professions no longer derive solely from bloodstones, and removing a profession (if theory is right, guardian) would be a tough move to do and probably would annoy too many players, I doubt we’d see a change of things mechanically.

Sylvari aren’t dragon champions, but are unique kinds of dragon minions. The Pale Tree is comparable to a dragon champion, however.

Nightmare Courtiers were NOT following Mordremoth’s deeds. The Nightmare is NOT commanded by Mordremoth. They fight Mordremoth just as much as Dreamers do, and are protected just as well.

Mordremoth being more intelligent than any other Elder Dragon is questionable since we don’t really know how intelligent the other Elder Dragons are.

Zhaitan corrupted the living as well as the dead. Other dragons – Mordremoth and Jormag especially – used the dead as well.

In GW1, Ascension allowed changing your secondary profession.

This was mechanical though. In lore, it only allowed one the “Gift of True Sight” – seeing mursaat and spirits who hid themselves from mortals.

There’s also indication that mursaat may not be able to be invisible while attacking – we’ve never seen such at least.

Seems so. Almost all of their racial magic (read: magical stuff that isn’t used by all) are outright stated to be or hinted to be dealing with souls.

Given that both Zhaitan and Mordremoth completely ignored the bloodstones while awake (aside from the shards the Arah High Priests had before their death), I don’t think Zhaitan “felt the power of Bloodstone”. Especially since the Bloodstones at their strongest was in 1 BE/Year 0.

He also doesn’t have necromancer skills – dragon corruption is not alike any profession skills.

There’s also no indication that the Shadow of the Dragon existed in Tyria prior to LW Season 2, as it is first only encountered in the Dream – which is called a mindscape by Rytlock. Also, the Mouth of Mordremoth is stated by several NPCs to be Mordremoth himself – likely given that monicker only because of the fact that Mordremoth can put his mind in any of his corruption and regrow his body from said corruption.

And I think your second post there is for another thread. :P

I just re-read the GoA section and the sack Dougal grabbed had platinum coins. There was no mention of ‘ingots’ in that vault at all.

Every instance of the world platinum I could find:

“The shelves on both sides were filled with terra-cotta jars, each filled to overflowing with gold coins and jewelry. At the base of the shelves were piles of ornate swords and armor salvaged by King Adelbern from the wreckage above and tucked away, much like an elderly woman might hide silver pieces throughout the house in case of burglars. Rough sacks of gold and platinum were tucked into every nook and cranny.” page 356

“He handled the blade gingerly, as its construction seemed to threaten to poke him at every moment. He looked around at the scattered treasure and wondered if he should risk taking more. Almorra, after all, had promised him and the others any additional treasure they found. But anything would have to be hauled back up the pit and out of the city. In the end, he quickly chose two small sacks of gems-emeralds and diamonds-and a good-sized satchel of platinum coins stamped with the seal of the Royal House of Kryta.” page 358

“I have it! And gems and platinum as well!” he shouted upward. […] page 359

The GW1 currency wasn’t in ignots, but coins. The icon used in GW1 had more of a dollar bill shape than ingot shape, too.

The titans and mursaat are said to be ancient foes in GW1, IIRC, so there’s probably a long-lasting hatred that, sadly, is not ever explained.

Falkatore.3125:

Currency! How did the world of GW moved, in the span of 250 years, from gold/platinum based exchange (GW) to the current C/S/G system?

Short answer is, they didn’t move.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Crimson_Skull_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Crimson_Skull_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Crimson_Skull_Coin

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Shilling
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Bullion_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Doubloon

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Zaishen_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Zaishen_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Zaishen_Coin

It’s just that, mechanically, we skipped the copper and silver in GW1.

And for platinum in GW2:

Here’s one reference to platinum coins

Which means that, mechanically, we skip platinum coins. Always kind of bugged me that we have 1,000 gold instead of 1 platinum, though.

As for ignots being cheaper than the coins, two things:

First off, coins have an arbitrary value assigned by the collective society. Coins hardly ever have the assigned value that is equal to their weight in material – pennies for the US economy, for example, have a lower monetary value than the actual materials required to make them (mind, this is insignificant on a one-penny basis, being at something like a 0.001% more expensive to make a penny than the penny’s value, per penny, IIRC). Usually, though, it’s the opposite (take dollar bills, for example) – where the coin is assigned more value than its weight in material – which would be the case with these ingots (and why forgery is a bad thing, mkay – but easy to afford if you can manage duplicating the printing process).

Second off… mechanics. In old LA, there were merchants bartering for a “centaur spearhead” and the price was 20 gold. I’d presume that the value players trade thing is far lower than what ArenaNet would deem the in-lore monetary price – that, or there’s something REALLY special about that old centaur spearhead. (I’d also argue the OPPOSITE for GW1 currency, as Prophecies had a line about a head of lettuce costing… 7 gold, I think it was?).

I’m not sure how it would. It most likely means that the standard rate of an Elder Dragon absorbing magic is lower than the standard rate of Elder Dragons releasing magic for all to wake up each time.

Or that the waking of one does inadvertently leads to the others waking up.

Not every Elder Dragon. Primordus and Kralkatorrik both ended up waking up without a champion, but Primordus’ awakening was delayed by 50 years due to his champion’s death (and presumably Kralkatorrik’s as well due to Glint’s betrayal, thus explaining why Kralk and Mordy awoke at roughly the same time rather than 50 years apart).

Presumably, though this is merely theory, the Risen Giganticus Lupicus (only known champion of Zhaitan to be around while it slept) woke Zhaitan in a similar manner that Drakkar woke Jormag, or the Great Destroyer attempted for Primordus.

(On an aside, one can argue that Scarlet wasn’t a dragon champion – very easily in fact – which would mean Mordremoth also woke without a champion; though he circumvented that by having a non-champion perform the same role).

As far as we know, Elder Dragons don’t need a huge burst of ley line energy stuffed into their mouth (what caused Mordy to wake up – not because he merely ‘felt’ the ley line energy), but Drakkar is said to have been siphoning magic from the earlier generations of Sons of Svanir to feed Jormag for waking up. So it’s likely that every Elder Dragon leaves a champion around in the world to wake up early and gather magic for them to speed up their waking process.

Technically those are the only proper globes – the others only reveal Tyria/Elona (and with differences from the world map and other map textures) or is the disfigured texture in the OoW.

There is, quite literally, only four globe models in the game – of Tyria. Unless one of those in DR’s Upper City can be identified as Tyria – but AFAIK, they’re all too undetailed to find any “Tyria” among them.

They do wake up roughly the same time.

To a being where 3,000-11,000 years (depending on which dates is true for the last dragonrise) is an overnight nap, a mere 50 years is not very far apart from each other.

Arden.7480:

I have abother theory:
North<—- Egg
West<—— agree, Bubbles
South<—- Primordus
East<——- the Grove (newly Sylvari), temporary Lion’s Arch, I think that in LA Ley Line split up in 2 directions- Shiverpeaks and from Mount Maelstrom to Kralkatorrik’s teritory.
So 4 Dragons took some energy from Mordremoth.
But DSD is absolutely the biggest secret in GW2.

Most recent guess would put Primordus closer to Mount Maelstrom (depending on how old that volcano is), so I’m not sure why you think Primordus is under a bunch of water.

Despite common belief, nothing relates the Ring of Fire to Primordus.

Tyrians believe it’s spherical, at the very least, with a solar system to boot.

Though the world map texture is a bit odd for such.

Not directly, no.

My theory comes from the line in Arah explorable:

Randall Greyston: They pulled the energies of Zhaitan himself, even though they did not know of the sleeping Elder Dragon.

Along with the fact that Zhaitan was being deprived of consuming as much magic as he wanted, while Mordremoth was chomping down raw ley energy right to the last moment of his death.

Basically, Zhaitan was drained – twice – of magic while Mordremoth wasn’t. I’d say the death of the other Elder Dragons would likely be as influencing as Mordremoth’s (with possible exception of Kralkatorrik).

The Elder Dragons weren’t void of magic. The magic in the world 250 years ago wouldn’t have been at max capacity either, just high enough that the Elder Dragons begin waking up.

Which basically means that the amount of magic in Mordremoth and Zhaitan when they woke was more than the amount of magic consumed by two Elder Dragons for ~200 years, one Elder Dragon for ~150 years, and one Elder Dragon for 8 years.

Narc’s theory holds some water (heh) but at face value that’s all it means.

Mind you, I think the reaction does seem a bit much for only two dragon deaths. I’d expect for the overflowing magic to create highly destructive anomalies after three. If it is this bad with two, the world won’t survive two more Elder Dragon deaths, I’d bet. One more may make the whole world on par to Thaumanova and Bloodstone Fen, even.

No, but nothing says that she “wanted” them killed either, only that she foresaw it and decided to assist the heroes.

Her words at the end of Prophecies make it sound more like she wanted to stop Khilbron and the titan threat, especially since she sends the heroes after the titans that made it through the portals. Stopping the tyrannical mursaat was just a plus by all indications in GW1.

But that was before they made the lore about the betrayal of other races in the plight against the Elder Dragons.

However, Primordus (and the other Elder Dragons) likely would get more powerful from Zhaitan’s death.

Also, based on the ending cinematic of HoT, less than a quarter of Mordremoth’s magic went into the egg (the magic went into four directions seemingly equally – one towards the egg, one towards Rata Sum/The Grove, one towards Ring of Fire, probably enlarging that Bloodstone, and one westward off the map).

Even with the egg in the way, the Maguuma Bloodstone got a huge boost of power from Mordremoth’s death too, so the egg got less than a quarter of Mordremoth’s power. If we presume that some magic went past the bloodstone rather than fully stopping at it, then over 3/4ths of Mordremoth’s magic went… elsewhere.

Likely candidates?

• Ring of Fire Bloodstone
• Pale Tree -> Shiverpeak Bloodstone →Mount Maelstrom events
• DSD (west)

Primordus could have picked up some of that magic easily. Especially the magic that went to Mount Maelstrom.

Nah, if I’m remembering correctly it was on reddit.

I believe they’ve also said that the players being revenants before Rytlock goes into the Mists isn’t a canon lore thing, though.

The generic avatar makes sense – they weren’t going to make a new appearance for a small-time figure would they, and it’s actually a story point in some events that the White Mantle’s appearance has changed over time (no doubt to accomodate the fact that they’ve been hiding in the shadows for that time). Though I think they should have used the model used for the guys in Aurora Remains but with the new solid blue/black ghost look.

The voice, does not. Even at the very least they could have taken some lines from GW1.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Well Rytlock becoming a Revenant basically caused a “wave” across the Mists. Inside the Mists, all of what we can assume is the source of Space/Time is housed there (since we can see battles that already happened, and things that may happen). So him opening the ‘box’ (or whatever it was) that caused him to gain his powers basically hit across the entire Mists, giving more and more the power of Revenants. He was the first in all of existence to gain the power, and it spread to the rest of existence.

While theoretically sound, don’t say it as if it is fact.

Because it isn’t.

draxynnic.3719:

The attitude I’ve had is that a revenant PC was some other profession before Rytlock arrived, and they switched under Rytlock’s tutelage. We don’t see that mechanistically because that would be… rather awkward.

This has been my take on it too.

She’s discussed quite a bit in this other thread here.

Also, the Mesmer Collective doesn’t seem to actually be secretive – they openly send out agents (Kasmeer to the Tower of Nightmares) and a PC mesmer casually mentions it to Braham in S2, and even he knows about it – but it was never openly brought up to Braham before.

They do keep secrets, but they don’t seem to be secretive.

It’ll have to be brand new zones to do that, though, due to the whole water level issue.

Unless you want dozens of underwater tunnels ala Tangled Depths.

Pregnantman.8259:

I would like to think that both Zhaitan and Mordy were interested by the Bloodstone at Bloodstone Fen but were unable to reach it. Mordy was asleep most of the time, and woke up for a swift resistance against him and a march to where he is. Our progress against Zhaitan’s doorstep was much slower, we had to finish up the problems at home, bulk up each order, form the Pact, gather up resources and so on. We slowly starved Zhaitan and brought the killing blow in Arah. In Mordy’s case, the Pact was already ready and brazenly met with his forces. I don’t think it would be able to spare much of his sources to Bloodstone Fen – which at that point was the bastion of White Mantle. As for Zhaitan, it was simply too far away and what champions it was able to send that far away from Orr may have been thwarted by White Mantle. Of course, it may also be that dragons simply do not interact with Bloodstones, but Arah p4 shows otherwise.

Here’s the thing.

With Mordremoth, he had already influenced as far away as Iron Marches – before the Pact began mobilizing against him. He could have easily put vines in Bloodstone Fen, but we don’t see a single one. Then there’s the Bloodstone in the Shiverpeaks and on the Ring of Fire.

With Zhaitan, while we know his risen created a blockade from Orr to the Ring of Fire, there’s no hint of him going after the Bloodstone there, and even if he did, he made no move for the one in the Shiverpeaks despite his forces effectively surrounding it on all sides. While it’s true the Bloodstone Fen one was too far away, the other two known Bloodstones were on his literal doorstep, but no move made.

Pregnantman.8259:

It may or may not sense that magic is in Lazarus now (would it be possible for him to hide from dragons like before with all that magic).

Entirely plausible, but then you hit the fact that Lazarus – like all mursaat – are able to hide from Elder Dragons, and we see how this works, to a small degree at least, in Arah explorable.

Pregnantman.8259:

I noticed that the fifth Bloodstone, the key, isnt really mentioned in lore and there isnt a plot revolving around it. On a hunch, I would say that Lazarus’ intention is to combine all Bloodstones with the key within himself, slip through the world or annihilate anything in his path and reshape the world as a god, or attempt to bring his race back.

Hmmm, some theoyr places the Ring of Fire Bloodstone as the keystone, though it’s just a theory. Truth is, two Bloodstones are fully missing, and while folks theorize that the Maguuma Bloodstone was Preservation and the Shiverpeak Bloodstone was Aggression, there’s no real guess on which the Ring of Fire Bloodstone was – could have been any of the remaining three, or any of the five really, if the theory on the Maguuma and Shiverpeak Bloodstones were wrong.

Narcemus.1348:

I have to hope that knowing what Lazarus has done with one stone, we might start the process of tracking the remaining Bloodstones (including the ones we don’t know their locations). In order to defend them from further incursions.

Well there is a decent space between Timberline and Sparkfly for the Shiverpeak Bloodstone. We never learned its exact location due to the nature of dungeons in GW1, but it would be roughly around there, I’d imagine.

And that spot is, while smaller than Dry Top, Southsun, and Silverwastes, larger than Bloodstone Fen.

Leo G.4501:

Ultimately, the only thing I’m saying is, if you wanted to put Tengu in, you could go through the points and reinforce sketchy portions or parts that could cause conflict, like you mentioned.

Or you can limit your casualties here and now. You mentioned the LS parts assumes you’re the Pact Commander who killed Zhaitan. Simple solution is to limit references to those particular events. No one must reference the killing of Zhaitan by your character every second sentence or remind you of your rank at the start and end of every sentence. And the omission of one word in that title is the most simplest of solutions going forward when referencing the character.

Having to go back and edit stuff for some – or all – characters in addition to doing VO for that content is a lot more work than just adding a new VO for a race in that same content.

Leo G.4501:

Of course, you can retrofit Tengu into the old PS, or you can create a new story. Or just move forward with the new additional race and have more inclusive dialog while allowing the player themselves to fill in the blanks.

First is easiest (only change beyond first three chapters needed is to add new voice acting for tengu characters). Second causes complications (the entire point of my and Buddhakeks’ previous posts). Third doesn’t fix the problem of S2, HoT, or S3 (which is said entire point of said posts).

RazielSpecter.6295:

I have a question. We already kill Zaithan and Mordy, right? So Why their minions still on tyria? Shouldn’t they died yet?

Two reasons:

First off, the death of an Elder Dragon does not mean the death of its minions. Both Tequatl’s power boost and Arah explorable happen post-Zhaitan’s death. So not only do they remain around, but they have a chance of absorbing the lost magic of their dragon to become stronger.

Second off, as we see in those two aforementioned cases, dragon minions can continue to spread corruption, it’s merely at a far inferior rate.

Basically speaking, killing Elder Dragons doesn’t remove the threat, it just reduces the threat greatly. However, they’re also a lot less coordinated – with no head to lead them, they’re basically acting on the final orders they were given.

This is a bit more interesting with the Mordrem Guard since they weren’t corrupted traditionally but functioned on continuous orders – and as Rox said, now that their master’s voice is gone they’re erratic.

Furthermore, maps are frozen in time except where in those maps they’re influenced by LW stuff (where they become frozen in that release’s time), so when we go to Straits of Devastation, we’re still seeing pre-Zhaitan’s death events.

This is one of my biggest caveats with Caithe’s “doing so may kill the sylvari race but Mordremoth must die” proclamations, since she knows dragon minions don’t die if the Elder Dragons do (see Zhaitan).

Pregnantman.8259:

From what we have seen, those who absorbed magic from the bloodstone (or in anyway), become hungry for ever more power. Lazarus has absorbed the lion’s share of Bloodstone’s magic, and could very well intend to absorb other, greater sources of magic such as a dead Elder Dragon or another Bloodstone.

The odd thing is that Lazarus doesn’t seem crazed like everything else.

So whatever ritual he used to absorb that magic kept him safe from the effects unlike the rest.

Pregnantman.8259:

Maybe Primordus is not coming for us, but is drawn to a Bloodstone or Lazarus himself – both equally are high sources of magic. Maybe their armies will meet by another Bloodstone and winner takes all?

I don’t think Primordus is after a Bloodstone. It’s odd, but Zhaitan and Mordremoth were both adjacent to bloodstones and completely ignored them. The only time a dragon minion was related to a bloodstone was the five of six small shards in Arah, and that was by dragon champions who pre-corruption held those five shards.

Because we were told that the Bloodstone(s) have been leaking magic at least since the gods gifted magic out (if not sooner). The magic from the Bloodstone had been less than the ambient magic in the world too, as part of the lack of restrictions in GW2 (and retroactively, the dual professions in GW1 we were told).

The only reason, by all indication (read: the journals), that the Bloodstone had so much magic is because it absorbed a fair amount from Zhaitan’s and Mordremoth’s deaths. And even then, since the White Mantle cracked that Bloodstone’s shell, it’s been leaking magic at a faster rate – while only for a few years, we aren’t sure of the rate of increase either.

We really don’t know how much magic was released by Abaddon when he gifted magic – it could have been most of the magic – but we don’t know how much magic was put back in either (though we know it is not as much as was released, else the world would have been nigh magicless again).

But with the magic of Mordremoth and Zhaitan out in the open world now, would he really care about 1/5th-or-1/4th of part of Zhaitan’s hibernating magic (from when the gods strengthened the Bloodstone by drawing magic from Zhaitan – I wonder if that’s why Zhaitan was so easily taken done, rather than just the weeks of starving)?

I’m not really sure. Plus, if Lazarus just phases out of existence, wouldn’t that be basically taking the magic out of reach and out of “smell” of Primordus? Maybe.

It’s possible that Lazarus will go after other bloodstones, but if so I suspect that a clash – if one happens – will be at the Shiverpeak bloodstone (which would be perfectly placed in that spot between Timberline and Sparkfly).

Leo G.4501:

Not necessary to reply to every point since most of your replies are basically “No, the way things are is how I say them and you should accept that as fact” which I don’t have the time to argue nor the data. But I will reply to one point.

Funny that the same can be said for your own posts too. :P

Leo G.4501:

And? I have a total of 2 characters who completed the entire Zhaitan story, 1 that completed S2 and S3 but DIDN’T complete the Zhaitan story and none who’ve completed all these stories as a complete continuum story. So you can either take that at face value and consider characters perceived as “The Commander” as a part of a group of commanders who all accept responsibility for their victories and failures or just man up and dismiss the title wholesale as a title for the player as a protagonist and not the voice/pixels of the character themselves.

The difference between this situation and the tengu PC never being the one to take down Zhaitan in story is that S2 presumes that the PS is completed.

Leo G.4501:

And one may say, “well that’s dumb and completely immersion breaking!” but if a small quips about the game’s protagonist are enough to break your immersion, you likely weren’t that immersed to begin with. I can accept a few NPCs talking to the character in the context of what the protagonist actually accomplished as a by-product of the gift of voice-over work added to the game. You could kitten it for all its mistakes but then you’d have to ignore all the good it adds to the game and immersive world.

In all honesty, it’s the small quips here and there that break immersion the most, because huge things are often taken as gags and jokes by the writers – and are often consistently provided throughout or are usually made apparent to be gags that they don’t break immersion but further immersion.

Why the Fire Islands. I don’t get why people keep going “Primordus will be at the Fire Islands” when the natural volcanic island chain has nothing to do with Primordus and the closest Primordus’ forces have ever been is in the Tarnished Coast.

That said, I don’t think Lazarus would be any more desireable than the magic out in the open world, which is not only plentiful but also won’t be fighting back.

Furthermore, Lazarus still has his phasing out ability which is Arah explorable is any indication, is a near perfect defense against dragon minions. Especially when combined with spectral agony.

Leo G.4501:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Because, Leo, that means that ArenaNet will have to make an entirely unique level 1-80 personal story for tengu.

That’s a given and likely desired since that’s the point of introducing new races: to introduce more story.

Except for the fact that ArenaNet explicitly stated that they weren’t going to do akin to what they did with GW1 – which is what you’re suggesting – and honestly you still get more story introduced by having wholly new 1-30 PS story steps and two low level zones.

Leo G.4501:

Not sure exactly what you’re trying to get at with this. You’re explaining ways to reuse and make implementation simpler to integrate them into the old plot…then make an example of trying to explain Tengu appearing in the newest season….when you JUST described of retroactively fitting them in. To clarify, you won’t have to explain why the tengu suddenly appear IF you add the tengu to the old content.

Exactly, IF you add them to the old content, you don’t have to explain why they suddenly appear.

But if you DON’T, then you have to explain why suddenly the tengu is being called Pact Commander and is buddy-buddy with everyone else. And if you make it so that the tengu isn’t called that, then you’re altering all of S2, HoT, and S3 story for every single character out there, in addition to just having tengu voice acting to the old stuff.

Leo G.4501:

But one huge consideration you’re overlooking is that there is no reason that Anet MUST implement a new race in the exact same manner that the other races were introduced at launch. You don’t have to have content from level 1-80 at all; you can just start a tengu character at level 30…or at level 60 or 80. Or you can just let the player decide how or where you want to start (there are consumables that instantly put you at certain levels, which didn’t exist at launch).

Except that isn’t how the story journal is functioned to work, and would require a lot of work to get that to function that way.

Furthermore, you still run into the issue of why the kitten would a tengu be the Pact Commander and be friends with DE and DE 2.0.

Leo G.4501:

Also, I would LOVE if the devs alter all references to the Pact commander.

Which would be so much work for so little gain from ArenaNet that they would never even consider such a thing seriously.

Leo G.4501:

This would mean that there are multiple Pact commanders (which makes sense, since all my characters are referred to by that title) thus a simple job title.

Which is outright stated to be the case in S2 and we even see some Commanders in CoF and Frostgorge…

Leo G.4501:

So it wouldn’t matter that much that a Tengu is a commander. Or a Skritt, or a Largos; as long as they can function properly as a leader, the soldiers are obligated to follow. That’s just how organized military works.

“A” commander? No.

“The” commander? Yes.

The PC is repeatedly being called the one who killed Zhaitan from S2 to S3. As well as being best buds with DE and DE 2.0. But if you just take the tengu PC out of the plots that take place before the tengu open their borders (aka PS→S3) then… that makes no sense.

Rhaegar.1203:

So Menzies is a god. He is able to corrupt the Forge and make tainted weapons for his Shadow Army; He corrupts the domain itself that way, meaning he has power over it.

Just following your logic.

The Fissure of Woe is a location, it is not a domain of power or aspect of reality like War is.

And it isn’t Menzies affecting the Eternal Forge, but Seeds of Corruption that taint the fires. But the fires themselves are not Balthazar’s domain of power.

So, no, not following my logic. You’re twisting words and definition meanings.

Most likely, Menzies is either on par to pre-ascension Grenth (who did have some divine-like powers – being titled “Prince of Ice and Sorrow” and apparently having a small degree of power over ice, death, and darkness pre-Ascension as hinted by the Orrian History Scrolls) or on par to Oswald Thorn (a “Spirit Lord” – aka a very powerful soul with lots of magic that is able to warp reality to a limited degree, far less than a god or Elder Dragon).

The ghosts aren’t there by natural causes, is your first issue. They’re cursed, bound to the place of their death by magic. They literally return to that place on a daily basis. Even if they were lured away somehow – which would be hard to do since they see every living being as a charr that they must kill – they would just return to where they died within hours.

Your second issue is that the only means to access the Fractals of the Mists is a haywire asura gate in Lions Arch. Which means you either have to take that asura gate – always active – across the Shiverpeaks and throughout all of Ascalon, or lure the ghosts to Lion’s Arch within 24 hours – and it takes roughly a week in lore to reach Ascalon City from Ebonhawke. Literally impossible.

Your third issue is that the Fractals themselves reset over time, and that every one has hostile forces. Furthermore, the asura gate leads to Dessa’s lab.

And your fourth issue is that the ghosts would still be bound by the curse even if you somehow manage to get them to the Fractals. Which means even through the Mists, they’re likely to return to Ascalon, sooner or later, unless you manage to capture them like the Iron Legion’s containers – but if you do that… why send them to the Mists?

So not only do you have to somehow get them through that one particular asura gate, but you also have to get them into that central portal in Dessa’s lab… without the ghosts killing anyone. And then you somehow have to get them to not ‘reset’ within hours of doing that.

On top of that, they would not “appear to be alive” (because they’re ghosts) and they’d still attack players on sight if they were to visit.

Amaimon.7823:

To the best of my recollection, the Central Transfer Chamber was pretty close to yaks bend, let me see if there’s still a map out there. No high quality maps, sadly, but woodenpotatoes’ gw2 and gw1 overlay map make it clear that you practically walk over the central transfer chamber when you first walk from Ascalon to the Iron Horse Mines

We don’t go over the CTC in GW1 but we do go close as it is off the explorable map in GW1 – and that_shaman’s historical map places it in the border between Frostgorge and Fireheart.

Amaimon.7823:

But you are right about him being deep, until the great dwarf is the ex-dwarf he propably wont affect the surface much. There are a destroyer heart events in the shiverpeaks, though, but I suppose they’re scraps/strays

It’s implied a few times that the dwarves are dead, and even if they weren’t given we know he was moving around and this movement is why we see destroyers from Brisban to Maelstrom to Ascalon. Still, he’s deep enough underground that his remnant forces able to reach the surface are very few.

Tekoneiric.6817:

The odd thing about Frostgorge Sound is that it is a sea level since the sea intrudes into the map. It’s roughly at the same level as the Woodland Cascades which shows green. Jormag would have to be keeping that area cold. Fireheart Rise appears to be at roughly the same elevation as Frostgorge Sound.

Uh…

Not all water is at sea level, and lakes – even large sea-sized ones – in mountains wouldn’t be either. If this was the case, waterfalls and downhill rivers couldn’t exist in the natural world.

Be it rain, melting snow, or underground springs, it’s likely that once Jormag shattered the mountains that while the bottom reaches may now be below sea level, not all of it is. If it was, then we’d have huge cliffs bordering the edges of the water.

Tekoneiric.6817:

Does Jormag keep the shiverpeaks cold or is he there because they are cold? Will events focused on him bring ice and snow to other maps? Once he is taken down does that mean the Shiverpeaks will no longer be ice and snow?

Neither.

The Shiverpeaks are said to be 10,000 feet in elevation, iirc. That high up, it gets kitten cold. Despite this, it gets warm enough in spring and summer for plants to grow.

Jormag slept and awoke far north of the Shiverpeaks. His presence is making the areas sub-zero. At that temperature, life both animal and plant would not survive.

Once he’s taken down, as with the other dragons, his corruption will not suddenly disappear. If anything, the Shiverpeaks will – very slowly – return to their temperatures we saw in GW1. Which with exception of where we see lots of Jormag’s corruption, is where they rather currently are.

Amaimon.7823:

There’s a whole lotta heat below the shiverpeaks, though, google “primordus”

He’s not that close. The Depths of Tyria that span the continent are thousands of feet underground – and that would be at the elevation of Kryta and Ascalon, so only a few dozen feet above sea level at most, and the Shiverpeaks are 10,000 feet higher than their surrounding landscapes (Kryta and Ascalon) in average elevation.

Even Primordus’ molten ‘primordial fire’ that burns through fire will not give off enough heat that would travel that far through stone.

Tekoneiric.6817:

The thing about it is that while Jormag was asleep in GW1 he could have asserted an influence on his region keeping it the way he likes it. I think both are possible.

He slept too far north to be keeping the Southern Shiverpeaks cold. He was sleeping off the map, and it took him four years to reach where the norn lived – the furthest northern reaches of the GW2 map.

If he can’t even influence Mount Maelstrom from where he is now (within the GW2 map), then he couldn’t have when he was asleep and way off of the GW1 map (which was bigger than the GW2 map).

Squee.7829:

Although, in GW1, I thought things got a little weird around the southern shiverpeaks, where it was at sea level and also strangely close to hot and arid Elona, but still frozen. ). So it’s probable they would be cold with or without the dragon there. The southern end of the shiverpeaks, I think I read, is only getting warm because of all the heat Mount Maelstrom is pumping out, not because of any waning/waxing influence of Jormag.

GW1 and GW2 are weird with proportions, and I think it was implied that we saw the Shiverpeaks during winter and fall in GW1, while it’s spring and summer in GW2 – which is why Wayfarer Foothills and Lornar’s Pass are melted.

Yes, Mount Maelstrom (and probably Timberline Falls) is melted primarily due to the volcano that erupted, however.

Not necessarily the Pact, but the two-generation Destiny’s Edge will.

Most likely via Taimi and the Novan research.

Because, Leo, that means that ArenaNet will have to make an entirely unique level 1-80 personal story for tengu.

If they slap the tengu PC into the old plots, it’s just levels 1-30 that’s unique and just new voice overs for everything else.

In other words, it is a LOT less work for ArenaNet to reuse the Order and Pact storyline of the Personal Story than it would be to create a series of new plots for the tengu to cover all 80 levels before they’d be joining in the level 80 content of Season 3.

Furthermore, if the tengu just suddenly appear in Season 3, you have to explain why the hell they’re part of this sadly-named “Dragon’s Watch”, why they lead it, why all the NPCs know the tengu PC and trust the tengu PC, and alter every single reference to Commander (because the Tengu PC would not have been a Commander of the Pact) and references to killing Zhaitan and Mordremoth, knowing the old Destiny’s Edge, and so forth.

Ultimately, it’s a ton less work to hire two new voice actors to read off already written or slightly altered lines, and to create seven short plots unique to tengu (3 @ lvl 10, 3 @ lvl 20, 1 @ lvl 30).

Furthermore, due to how the Story Journal works, you’d either be restricting tengu players from doing S2 and HoT – which they would have paid for – and possibly S3, or having to do the VA work for them anyways. At which point, why only cut the Zhaitan story when doing such is more work than just more VA recording?

TL;DR

Yes, it is that difficult, Leo G.

Technically we only beat down one Svanir base, out of many. Granted, it’s one of the larger ones, but that one has been around with shamans of the same rank since 1325.

We give the norn a little breathing room, but only for a few weeks at best.

And while we did beat down the Icebrood – to a degree – in 1325 (what with the PS norn storylines, the Priory storyline, and the Grawl/Quaggan storylines), they remained an increasing threat at the end of HotW, despite that beat down too.

In other words, all we’ve been doing is stalling tactics. And it’s been four years since we did so – two since we did a minor stalling. And there’s been a huge influx of magic for the past year now in-game.

And now bloodstone shards flinging as far as Ascalon, apparently. If Jormag or Kralkatorrik get their hands on those like Zhaitan had its hands on the five the High Priests had, even more reason for an assault to being.

I’m not so sure having us fight two dragons would “tax Anet’s resources too much” – because I think they’re leading us into fighting all three primarily active Elder Dragons: Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik.

And doing such would hasten the Elder Dragon plot along which has been going on for four years now (if we discount EotN). I think they – and players – are wanting a new plot sooner rather than later. So gearing up for a three-sided fight against the Elder Dragons is one way to do so.

Technically, Edwin, Lazarus said that the Krytan throne is inconsequential.

Which could mean his goal is to literally obliterate all of Kryta.

Rhaegar.1203:

Says who?

There’s no evidence pointing out to non-gods being able to usurp a god’s domain.

But there’s also no evidence pointing the other way!
So, how can you conclude so?

Because there is evidence pointing to that. They’re called a god’s domain for a reason, for starters, and in GW1:

“I have studied the beings you humans call gods. Your stories speak of extremely powerful, almost omnipotent beings who each specialize in one area of superiority.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Cipher_of_Melandru

Basically, human legends state that the Six Gods are absolutely powerful in their specific domains. Even if that holds false, the fact that they have power of these domains is part of what makes them a god.

So it goes to logical deduction that if you have power over a god’s domain, you are a god.

Inc.4753:

draxynnic.3719:

@Inc: That’s pretty much what I’ve been saying for a while now.

It’s possibly also worth noting that some aspects of the gods’ domains do seem to have some mutability: for instance, Lyssa seemed to claim water without giving anything up, which suggests that the elements are not critical parts of the divine portfolios – rather, they claim an element that they feel that they’re suited for.

Indeed, Lyssa taking on a third domain raises some question about the 6×2 format. Then again, we don’t know why (if at all) these are the magic numbers and wheter they are fixed or permit some form of flexibility. With two Dragons now defeated and the Tyrian spheres of Mind, Plant, Shadow and Death ‘released’ we haven’t seen anything particular happen within these spheres.

All Six Gods have at least three domains though. Sometimes they’re described with more.

Dwayna is life, light, and healing.
Balthazar is war, fire, and honor.
Melandru is nature, earth, and growth.
Lyssa is illusion, beauty, and water.
Grenth is death, ice, and darkness.
Kormir is knowledge, order, and spirit.

Then if we look at the Facets from EotN we get in addition:

Dwayna is existence
Balthazar is destruction
Melandru is creation

And we’re also told Grenth is destruction and judgment.

Which is curious about destruction, that in GW1 it’s tied to Balthazar, and in GW2 it’s tied to Grenth.

Basically, even before Abaddon’s fall there’s some overlap.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Kormir- spirit and order, since she was only given the one sphere of truth-not secrets- in GW1).

In GW1, she is actually called goddess of secrets a few time, alongside knowledge and truth. She’s also got spirit from the Facet in EotN.

Sirius.4510:

If Primordus is becoming more active, there’s a pretty good chance we’ll be hearing about it as soon as next episode of LWS3.

On that subject, there was an interesting map linked in another thread – not sure exactly how they got it but I presume from some pre-release content that was cut: http://imgur.com/bOwDeHt
Now, obviously, this whole map could have been thrown away. But the “Heart of Primordus” intrigues me. Merely idle speculation and possibly wishful thinking, but perhaps we’ll be visiting that in the near future? I note that this map isn’t actually geographically connected to the core Dominion of Winds (even if they throw it away and redo it, that won’t change, since Garrenhoff’s port precludes that) so it wouldn’t necessarily break anything in the event that they wanted to use the DoW for a capital in a subsequent expansion.

RyuDragnier.9476:

That looks like how the beta map probably was Sirius. Notice how Lion’s Arch has that original look, and not the newer one for the map?

Icdan Sevaen.4628:

Wow what, that map? How come it’s filled in? Was it in beta but removed?

That map was a fan-made April Fool’s map done for 2014.

That region actually did have a half-made map from pre-beta era, but it was nowhere near that completed. that_shaman and WoodenPotatoes and the guy who made Tyria3d did stuff about that map.

EDIT: Didn’t see Aaron’s post.

And I’m saying that the comparison of using Lyssa doesn’t work because she was a god.

In other words: A non-god cannot take over a god’s domain. One needs to be a god to do such.

So saying what is basically “Menzies can do something that Lyssa did” is false.

Rhaegar.1203:

“Take his place” doesn’t mean “acquire godhood”. You can do the first while already being a god. Sort of like Lyssa now claiming domain over Water after Abaddon’s fall.

Lyssa was a god in the first place, however, so that comparison wouldn’t

Rhaegar.1203:

And then there’s Gaheron Baelfire, who sort of achieves a form of godhood (Apparently inspired by Kormir’s deeds).

He doesn’t obtain anything close to godhood, and nothing really says he was inspired by Kormir – rather, he was going for godhood because the Flame Legion were still set in the “charr need gods to rule because humans had gods when they ruled” mentality, but after the events of GW1 it the Flame Legion got this mentality of “adopting gods is willingly following a weak(er) being, we must make our own god to be truly strong and rule”.

Palador.2170:

Given that the summons is coming from the Black Citadel, it shouldn’t be from the Blood Legion Imperator. And he’s apparently the one in charge of his warband, they wouldn’t have the authority to try to summon him.

I’m 90% sure it has to be from Smodur, or Rytlock’s Black Citadel counterparts in Iron and Ash Legion. Those three are pretty much the only ones there with the authority to even try it.

The problem is, he’s actually on pretty good terms with all three of them. So, why did he react as he did? In another thread, I suggested that he’s actually blind now, and while he can use his new powers to navigate the world around him, he can’t actually read the message. He crumples it up and throws it away so nobody will expect him to try. And if he returns to his station, his blindness will be quickly discovered. He’d be deemed unfit for active duty, and retired. I think that actually scares him, and that’s part of the reason why he quickly suggested forming a new guild for him to belong to.

It actually could be Bangar (Blood Imperator), if the message was sent to the Black Citadel who relayed it because Bangar, being off in the east, doesn’t know of Rytlock’s situation – just that he hasn’t reported in for some time.

It could be his warband – you don’t need to be a higher or equal authority to send a letter telling your superior officer “Sir, you should get your kitten back to doing your job” after all.

And it could be the other Blood tribune at the Black Citadel – Fierhan Sparwind – who would be literally swamped with double the paperwork for a full year now.

Then as more commonly speculated, it could be Smodur, or the three other Tribunes (2 ash, 1 iron) stationed at the Black Citadel.

Branded are also riled up. We have seen this in the Current Events.

Though we’ve been told that the Svanir and Icebrood have been becoming more active in the PS. In Flame and Frost. And in S2, E3.

Icebrood have been getting more and more riled up for the past four years now, if not longer.

Right, I would count it as a prayer to, but it is a prayer that does not involve a living medium like an avatar or priest. Which was my point.

And as I said, that line heavily implies you meant god in general which was why I was replying. If all you meant is “you need to be one of the Six Gods to be one of the Six” you basically stated “water is wet”. Which… in that case, why’d you even say that?

Plus you said that in response to Menzies being a god, so you were saying “Menzies isn’t an actual god because he’s not one of the Six” so I don’t think you were talking strictly about how the human pantheon works in that post. So…. Hence reply. :P