Guild Wars 2

To fix pop would require the current system to be tossed. By design it wasn’t setup for competitive play.

The more drastic option would be to push with the instance over flow system, and make that the WvW play.
Scoring moved to an active system, and game play move away from hard objective baby sitting, basically no more “Cap point” as main play.

I’ll also suggest making a handful of dedicated battle servers not tied to the current PvE servers, on a ladder system, shorter rounds not week long.

This lets battle server time zone instances open on servers in the locale, so each prime time would have instances open in their area, and cycle down as pop transitions out and new instances open in the next time zone server cluster.

Anyway just an idea.

Robot Chocken.7012:

Snafu.7412:

Robot Chocken.7012:

Snafu.7412:

Awww you’re embarrassing yourself, two times we’ve been matched with JQ and two times we get excuses from HzH. Last time you guys were training members, this week your guardians are in queue. Which excuse will it be the next couple of days?

Even in the beginning pages you said you got full wiped a few times. It wasn’t by SoS. Pick a story and stick to it. Once again quit lying to try to make friends

Engrish comprehension to hard? I said HzH never wiped us.

Then who did?

It’s a bit unsanitary they expect anyone to wipe for them, bleh….

Part of it are more TC holdings being given up to BG atm. Give it another day and SoR EU will adjust it’s PPT tactics.

SkeletalLlama.5381:

Being paid to temporarily transfer to BG is the new gold making meta. Btw BG my new guild with a classified number of members (from whichever timezone you want us to be) will transfer today for just 2,000g. We’ll even stay for a whole week if you tip us an extra 20%.

2000g of cocaine coming right up, if Dr. Roxo doesn’t clean out the store room.

@Ricky, T1 sets the tactical meta that lower tier servers eventually use. This is due to T1 being more even with population, making it more competitive than lower tiers. In this way T1 WvW guilds are better because they know and exercise the map tactics first. Note I don’t say best, as there is currently no way to measure that metric.

Nuked.2360:

You do realize that our SEA was logged in at normal times but when SoR/BG have map blobs on each map and with t3 fortifications at full supply our SEA can’t break those very quick they take time.

Mos data seems to contradict that claim. JQ SEA PPT has been steady well over 250+ all week until this last leg. Something doesn’t jive right with your claim.

Mr Ko Killer.7206:

It’s also weird that SoR just gave up on 1st place too.. I really think SoR could have pushed for 1st given EU, but I guess SoR just burnt out and couldn’t handle BG’s mastery…we are all quitters in the end.

In SoR’s defense it’s not in their interest to burn out for 1st.

JQ is going to have a rest week, no offense to the tier2 servers. Pushing OT during SEA in this match would have been tactically sound.

After looking at MoS, it looks like JQ SEA gave up.

JQ – 2013-10-25 02:25:08 Score: 213 831
SoR – 2013-10-25 02:25:08 Score: 216 394

The above time is when I logged. JQ could have pushed hard for 2nd during it’s strongest time zone but didn’t. It’s just really weird between all the effort put in this week to just give up on the final leg. More so since it’s a weekend for JQ SEA, and they could have put in the OT to lock in 2nd place.

Anyway, it’s been an exciting week, enjoy the pre-reset karma train all.

DeWolfe.2174:

celeron.3469:

SFShinigami.2015:

I would actually be 100% for that if we could pull it off.

This is what I had from earlier in the page before I got demoralized by the fact that I messed up SoS’s matches and didn’t want to do those again…

JQ    3 1 1 1 2 2 1 = 27
SoR  2 1 2 1 1 1 3 = 27
BG    1 2 1 3 1 1 2 = 27

It requires BG to throw the 4th week match, which is impossible naturally, but could be done because its Maguuma (they will definitely push as hard as they can). We 3 would all get first. I really want SoS and Mags to tie for 3rd as well, but it’s such a pain to plan without too many thrown matches (shooting for none), and I don’t think its possible to get one of them to tie with TC.

TY for out of the box thinking! I posted on another thread that it would be easy for BG and SoR to manipulate a tie. I’m completely for a 3 way tie. Heck, I’d go with a 6 way tie if it’s statistically possible. Just to show what we can do as a community when we work together.

Heh, watch Anet global ban us all for score manipulation. =P

sostronk.8167:

Blackgate and SOR. Both servers will openly karma train when its possible (score/match decided). I play on BG and prior to leagues I loved it when we were matched against SOR and a T2 server because I know they play the karma train game so as soon as the match was decided, its farming time. JQ tends not to like karma training although they join in sometimes.

^^ This.

BG and SoR will both have the most active season schedules in gold league, with way better fights.

JQ will have more odd man out matches, which means JQ will full cap 4 maps, and have nothing to do for large time periods. So not a good situation to grind WXP, it’s just the nature of the matches they have this season.

Serkz.3140:

Zylonite.5913:

The skill lag in WvW is not Anet’s fault.

Hi, I manage websites with both static HTML and web-based applications. During peak hours, the loading time took way longer than it should so I immediately upgraded to servers with solid state drives. It was quite costly but the lag magically banished.

Skill lag due to slow servers is not the gamers fault. I do acknowledge that upgrades can be very expensive and since Anet doesn’t charge monthly fees, I don’t see how an immediate upgrade can help their ROI. They do need to make money after all. Maybe they’ll consider upgrading if wvw represented a more significant chunk of their revenue. I’m not speaking for them, just rationalizing.

Keeping the hardcore PvP community happy does have measurable ROI via the free advertising of high end play. Much like how WoW has milked the hard core raiding communities for all their community sites, videos, etc…

If it costs 250k for server upgrades once for free continuous advertising, that’s a market steal. Especially when you consider half of most large project budgets for these games are for marketing.

silvermember.8941:

Mathias.9657:

10k is a lot more than I would have guessed. GW1 is more balanced…. for shame, devs.

We can agree that gw2 should have been a little easier to balance due to less skills, but gw1 certainly was not even close to being balanced.

Even with FOTM balance, GW1 was still far more competitive than GW2. GW2 suffers from old skill/trait bugs + FOTM balance + unbalanced game format. All combined is why GW2 PvP is hurting for population.

To guess for the sake of guessing. I’d say the first 2000 or so players would be the regular player base spread over all the time zones. The rest a mix of players for dailies, and players that have tried it few times and went back to PvE or WvW.

a t s e.9614:

No , people must stop lying about this . Even if some1
Is willing to stack stunbreaks just to counter a stun-lock
war he CAN’T do it ? I didn’t know we had 7 slots to
Stack stun breaks . There ‘s no counter to
CC spam and it must stop . Thief has a revel
Debuff … why warrior is able to chain-cc
It’s unfair . And people shouldnt run 3 stunbreaks
Just to counter one class .

If your comparing CD to CD, revealed is 4s, thief can stealth forever. War stun maybe every 5s but eventually runs out at the end of the chain. Though playing like the warrior has cooties isn’t that hard to do, he can’t stun what he can’t catch.

Just saying if your going to make bad comparisons and all.

1- Balance
This includes fixing class bugs so said balance can actually be done.

2- Match que system
Lopsided matches via unequal numbers is poor design.

3- Game modes
Need more types.

Game Type: WvW

1 – Population imbalance
2 – Scoring

These two go hand in hand. The way matches are scored incentivize population imbalance. Current off hour coverage is risk = low, effort = low, reward = high, it defeats the point PvP when it’s PvD.

Move scoring to an active system greatly reduces the impact of off hours coverage. Which allows lower tier servers to become competitive given the lower WvW populations.

At most a higher tier server would have structure upgrade advantage, but at least they won’t have huge 30+k over night leads which render the rest of the match moot after mondays/tuesday.

Leagues also disincentivize lower ranked servers to participate in WvW, as it’s a forgone conclusion which servers will have a chance at the 1 – 3 position rewards.

3- Quicker update to map bugs/exploits.

Not resolving these in a timely fashion hurts sportsmanship, it really should be a bi-weekly update at the slowest pace.

4- Commander UI

After over 10years of raid frames being available, there’s no reason not to have have this UI feature.

The difference in Tiers come down to number of organized guilds. The higher the tier the more organized guild groups there are, which generally offer more competitive play.

If your just roaming and stomping pugs, they’re the same in any tier, a free bag most of the time.

Oni Link.4621:

Player Character.9467:

Oni Link.4621:

Hot-fix in 3… 2… 1…. XD
Enjoy nearly-permanent Immobilize till you can!

Hot-fix on that? have you seen what tehy did to the mesmer fall trait? Hello 80k hits.

Nope, I don’t check other classes forums. What they did?

EDIT: Omfg, just saw a video! O_O

Coefficient I bet is bugged to 330 vs 0.330, thus the instagib fest. I’m a bit surprised Anet hasn’t fixed it yet.

Does leg specialist still have the 1 person cap? or has it been rolled back so the Hammer cripple can do 5 targets again?

tichorum.2415:

The patch did a lot. Helped solve a Warrior issue and helped balance s/d thief somewhat; evades are still broken, but they do less boon strip which is a bonus.

As far as classes being broken, I literally see nothing that stands out. Anyone who is QQing about things being unreasonably broken is just mad that their spec can’t beat it. Mesmers aren’t broken, yet they destroy most warrior builds.

Actually Chaos Storm is broken atm. So welcome mesmers.

Solstice.1097:

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

Active scoring is more compelling game play than passive PPT from towers/keeps. If bloodlust was bad for unbalanced matches it should have been removed completely, since even in nerf form is still not an advantage for servers that can’t field competitive populations during prime time.

Leagues should be on perma hold till match balance is resolved. There’s no point in a competitive system having predetermined winners. then again maybe Anet is mirroring our political system, buy your wins with gems to mega stack a server for no competition GG.

Given a time zone with equal coverage. The Bloodlust change to 1 point per stomp makes towers/keeps matter more to PPT than being able to outplay our opponents in the field. YaY!! we can all go back to hiding in our towers and keeps since that’s the majority game play scoring metric.

It also makes off hour PvD contribute more to the overall match score.

Thanks for making League even more predictable Anet. How about just give the top ranked servers 1,2,3 in each league their reward now and save everyone the 7 weeks of predictable non-competitive kitten .

/s

Orbs used to be the incentive to double team. That incentive mechanic is currently missing from the BL’s.

Also the problem with pop imbalance and off hour PvD making any effort from non-T1 servers mostly moot. A double team even during NA prime won’t help. Look up the SoR/SoS/SBI match.

Unless there’s ascended gear or maybe unique WvW only skins from the wins awarded to those that helped their server. I can’t see PvP finishers as a great motivation for the large masses of PvE players on each server to participate.

It would be nice for Anet to post something soon.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Can we have a fix to the mapping situation?

I’m in TC, so its very hard to take forts and things back from the other 3 #1 tiers to get every PoI and vista in the 4 maps. Do you suppose you could make it easier for PvE to just get each poi at least by just being near the gates that must be taken down? The vista should be either moved or be left alone if they can’t, as they require a take over of that location anyways (its a vista it is like an extra reward for capturing. I’m ok with that!).

Everyone agrees requiring WvW for PVE 100% map was a bad idea to begin with. SO FIX IT! Let us get the PoIs just by approaching the vet guards at the gates.

I want my 100% so I can focus on what matters most: killing invaders!

As PvP player, I would like the inverse of this. I would like to not have to touch PvE to get map completion, and get back to what’s important. Killing PvE players.

a t s e.9614:

This meta.is a.nightmare for squishies aka.thieves\ele\mesmer.
I think precision needs a serious buff so it will
allow us to get other stats\utilities . And really
Tooooooo much Cc its like theres too much of it .
Im not asking stability while in stealth but at
Least some kind of thing that prevents warriors
And guardians to play ping pong with my character.

Your basically asking for what is in this suggestion thread. A 1s CC cool down so you don’t get bounced around between stun, kd, fear chains.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/stun-breakers-grant-temp-CC-immunity/first#post3021998

/signed

This isn’t much to ask for, and has been in other games for years.

Zero interest in personal story.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’re just starting work on a number of bigger systems/features for PvP,

The whole “just starting”, wouldn’t have anything to do with pressure from competition now would it eh?

Cough TESO / Wildstar cough cough…

LetoII.3782:

A small ops team locked [RATS] down at spawn? Really?

Opp/Riot aren’t really that small combined. Not that I have anything disparaging about them assembling a larger group, considering how many times I’ve participated in zerging them in the past. It’s actually tweaked my funnybone thoroughly every time our small-ops group has run across them ^.^ DAT KARMA

[/quote]

Ah so They let their powers combine to form Capt. OPRIOT, and bottle the RATS in their cage. Good show.

Weaselfierce.5241:

Greetings fellow warriors.
Perhaps someone can re-freshen my memory about the subject we were supposed to have studied for today from the magnificent :Battle Field Manual 1023: Bookahs in Combat, a Nuisance or An Opportunity" written by Professor Mancito.
Was it chapter 13 “Bookahs as Shields and Shade”?
or was it chapter 113 “Advanced Mine-sweeping With Bookah-Detectors”?
My note book, which had the assignments in it, got wet from tears I shed while being spawn-camped by OPP.

Professor Weasel
JQ [RATS] Cadet First Class, Genius Extraordinaire

A small ops team locked [RATS] down at spawn? Really?

Neuromancer.2148:

SoR falls behind – population imbalance
BG falls behind – fairweather players gone

Is there like a symposium for spin in SoR?

The short of it, SoR & BG to busy touching each other in the struggle bus, and JQ gets a free walk to match win.

Straegen.2938:

Changing the scoring would not really solve anything. In the current server based system, population imbalance and coverage will always make some matchups less fun no matter how the scoring is shifted around.

That’s not correct. Changing the scoring metric would lower the reward and score disparity of PvD play during off hours.

Though I will argue a dynamic system is much to prone to the player base gaming that system.

It’s an easy enough fix to reduce PPT for holdings to 20% of the total score. While incentivizing hard positions such as keeps and towers with a buff/bonus to something.

For those that remember early orb mechanics when someone had it, it was a straight up 2v1 on that keep till the orb was reset. I’m not saying the orb mechanic itself was great but the motivation of opposing servers to reset or take it was very high.

That is what gives value to hard positions even if PPT value is lower on them.

If it’s between SoR and JQ head to head and some poor sod T2 server, SoR would win. SoR has EU through NA to counter JQ’s SEA PvD.

If the match is SoR/JQ/BG, it’s a bit in the air. It’s a fight for first between SoR & JQ with BG possibly in a position to play king maker. Though JQ hasn’t been known to aggressively shoot for #1 in tight matches. I’d lean more towards SoR being willing to put in the OT to lock down a win.

Gandarel.5091:

Give resources and recreate GW1.

/closethread

You’ll have to wait for GW3, or another game.

Luvpie.8350:

PS: I know you probably can’t do this before Season 1 but THINK about it atleast… Please try to do this for Season 2 and maybe reduce the duration of the season… 7 weeks of imbalanced Gold league will drive players away from game…

Your suggestions don’t fix the issue of stacking problem. Right now Anet has incentivized server stacking for coverage wars with their scoring system. Off hour coverage is low risk/low effort/high reward, which is terrible game design.

If Anet doesn’t change how matches are scored before Seasons start. The blowout predictions will happen, people will stop playing till seasons are over, and move on to other up coming games.

No one will care about league. Most people will be skipping season to play other upcoming games. Anet has shown they are incapable of making competitive game formats.

Swamurabi.7890:

BG/SoR/JQ are everything that’s WRONG with WvW, with the exception of commander UI and map bugs

Buying guilds from lower pop servers.
Queues
Skill lag
Megablobs
Coverage Wars

Season 1 league will be a bigger fail because of it. Season 2 will be worse without some intervention by Anet.

Those are the monsters Anet created with their scoring system. The second the scoring system lowers the value of off hour coverage to nothing more than yak slapping. Coverage wars will end, and smaller WvW servers will have a chance to be competitive during their prime time.

I agree without some major change to how matches are scored, it will be a very boring season.

HolyMolla.6582:

WOW! SOR has worked so hard for PPT and ANET just restarted the match?
hahahahahaaaaahahahahahhaaaa

It’s the ultimate plan to force players into PvE.

Odokuro.5049:

I have been told by friends that Mesmer/Ele/Engi are what I am looking for, just asking you all just incase you have a suggestion and a build in mind.

Thanks!!!

Mes if you don’t mind being a portal monkey, else Engie is by far more fun for both large and small ops.

EFWinters.5421:

I don’t see the stats increasing siege damage, so there can’t be a power creep. WvW is about sieging and holding objectives.

Right?

Eh….yes and no. Given an even population from 3 servers in a similar time zone, the orb buff is worth more in PPT, especially if a server has all 3 buffs.

Thrumdi.9216:

Yep, 2 nights ago there was one person in the Eternal Battlegrounds channel for our server mumble, and zero in the BLs.

“We had to destroy WvW in order to save it.”

- last dev out before the fall of Anet.

We still love your yak parades!!

Back to the main issue of why blowouts?

It’s a combo of the scoring system and incentives. The current system encourages coverage stacking, “risk/effort/reward” for off hour plays for T1 servers is “low/low/high”.

Solutions I’ve proposed before.
- Extending the PPT timer x3 reduces off hour coverage effect to score. Players can still run their karma trains for WXP/Karma/XP/Chest/Coin. Optimally off hour coverage score shouldn’t be over 15% at most of the total when it’s PvD,and that’s being generous.

- Kills count as the main scoring metric. This addresses mismatched server populations. Lower WvW pop servers are able to critical mass at least 1 map to remain competitive during prime time. With 2-3 solid guild teams, they are able to make large contributions to the match score now on lower ranked servers.
Bonus effect, T1 blobs on other maps now face “Que gods” to the one map with action. If they want to play in prime time, transfer to a lower ranked server for pew pew action.

- Preservation of siege play, move reward buff to towers, <insert another thread for what kind of incentive buff>.

In previous posts I mention keeps/towers, but keeps having buffs are bad, I’ll explain.

Currently keep way points have to large an effect for blob mobility once that combat timer comes off. This rewards getting caught with your pants down, and is horrible play. It also punishes teams that outplayed the opposition with insta port 40+ man blob on their face, not fun.

I suggest putting the buff CP’s in towers since it gives distance from a spawn/way point, and isn’t nearly as difficult to siege. Which allows reasonable buff turn over, and incentive to spread the blob to seriously defend hard objectives.
Also going to add, buffs should not be global, and reside within individual maps. No reason to reward off map blobs that can stack the current buff system.

Helios.3598:

I’m going to try my hand at commanding on occasion when my guild needs it. I’m not new to WvW, but am new to commanding. If anyone has a good guardian commander build to share I’d appreciate it. I’m also looking for any general advice from seasoned guardian commanders.

If your on during NA PST, come do a ride along in the TS with KnT and we’ll help you get your commander toon setup.

NornBearPig.9814:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It’s odd, hammer Warriors were able to do basically the exact same thing in GW1 and I don’t remember there being all that much fuss over it. In GW1 I had a build that had around 4 knockdowns in a row. I had also mastered “quarter-knocking,” timing your knockdowns so that your target doesn’t even have enough time to cast a 1/4 second spell.

People didn’t complain because was so much melee hate in GW1 (blindspam, hexspam, wards, aegis…list goes on) that landing your KDs through all that wasn’t easy to do.

Team comps were also larger. The opposite happened where heavy melee teams were able to spec to counter the hex/condi pressure team builds. There was just more option for team builds in GW1, so even FOTM changes didn’t completely dominate.

It’s a bit weird this is even a problem when GW1 didn’t have it. Don’t get me wrong, there were still leaving issues, but the matches only started when both team ques were full.

To bad Anet just doesn’t want to put the resources into PvP that it does into PvE. I mean holy cow 4 PvE teams vs temp PvP team.

It’s all in how the scores are done that incentivize the server stacking.

Lowering the impact of off hours scores to the match, via a x3 or more timer to the PPT tick would fix a lot of the off hour blow out problems. This still lets off time zone players PvD and get karma/WXP/XP/some coin for flipping things, but it doesn’t reward a stacked server for PvD to the match score anywhere near as much as it does currently.

This lets the large majority of match points be generated from kill spikes. Which gives servers with smaller WvW populations a chance to be competitive if they only have enough to critical mass on one map. So 2-3 strong open field guilds on a small server have a huge impact on the match competition facing even against T1 servers.

With the scoring changes, it disincentivizes having having multiple map blobs, since those extra blobs won’t contribute very much to the over all score. Of course there will be QQ’ing with players trying to get into the only map with action, and the stacked server pop will need to spread out to avoid the wrath of the que gods.

Last, to preserve siege play. Keeps&towers should be the hold points for buffs(throw another thread up for incentive). This will serve to reduce blob play from open field just for kills.

If Anet intends to keep to their word of WvW being casual drop in and fight. Then scores are counter productive to that goal.

@OP, adjusting the buff doesn’t address the main problem of population imbalance, and unhealthy lack of competition.

Anet would need to completely change how scoring is done to disincentivize server stacking.

A minor tweak suggestion Anet could do. Extend the timer for PPT tick by say x3 so camps/towers/keeps etc are not the dominant metric for scores.

This gives lower WvW pop servers that can maybe field 1 map and some change of players a chance against say a T1 server since field combat becomes the main scoring metric. It allows smaller servers to critical mass at least 1 map to remain competitive without having huge off hour blowouts in the score.

Alternatively, Anet could just open up Global battle servers, and let all time zones critical mass them 24/7. It really depends on what the vision on WvW is intended to be.

It’s a medical emergency and only you can help save JQ from all the PvD face splinters.

Tarkus.4109:

That was the intention as I wanted to leave on a high note, yeah I did transfer last night. Its kinda disgusting though that the second that we leave that a lot of the leadership of blackgate turned feral, you wouldn’t have been in T1 if it wasn’t for our help and the way certain members reacted has effectively burnt all bridges. Nice to know all of the hours we put in got turned around so quickly.

From the reaction given to us not 6 hours in I know what server I’ll be focusing in Oceanic and late PST. No sympathy.

You left mid week to the opposing server we’re currently fighting, without saying good bye. When you were with [SG] and friends golem rushing BGBL it was our only opportunity to give you our goodbye hugs. No hard feelings, we still love you guys.

style.6173:

My hope…. changes to the scoring system. If the way scores are calculated are changed, it doesn’t matter how they do the tiers. Servers with the most number of players should receive fewer points than less populated servers. That would result in a more even match-up (score wise) between T1 and T4.

Agreed, if there’s no Handicap for more populated WvW servers. There will be little to no incentive for the lower tier servers to even bother with WvW during the season.

Heck the current match with SoR/DB/FA is pretty much what will happen under the current system. 6-7 weeks of PvD by T1 servers isn’t going to be fun for anyone.