This is a bug and we are currently tracking a fix for it
Do you have any plans to give rangers another way to counter the ridiculous amount of projectile hate that HoT brought to the game?
Most reasonable people saw that this bug on SotW was pretty balanced when you considered the 1 sec cast time, huge tell, and long cool down.
Unblockable sonic the hedgehog isn’t enough for you?
I think you lost because you had two thfs.
@Supreme
Druid has SoW for unblockable. Engi has blast gyro (which was used in helseth’s tournament) amongst other skills. Warrior has SoM. Rev has phase traversal as well as traits.
all of those will counter DH’s high blocks & give you enough of an upperhand to win.ele is poor example, because it runs a team support build that is not good at killing in 1v1. it should however, be able to sustain to the degree that your team should be able to kill the DH (magnetic aura, swirling winds, obsidian etc). sure that’s not a win in the traditional sense, but honestly what can you expect a support build to beat in 1v1?
The fact that so many people come to defend dh..only reinforces the OP point.
Shall I make a thread about nerfing thf so we can observe the results together?
If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol
Oops youre a 1400 low gold rating. That’s a blatant lie. Ouch public ratings telling it like it is.
Obviously his alt account is in Legendary, duh :P
Oh yeah totally not legendary :o, these back pieces come from bronze
You’re Joking, right?
Actually no, I’m not lol feel free to correct me, these wings must be from bronze but what do I know right?
Wow.
If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol
Oops youre a 1400 low gold rating. That’s a blatant lie. Ouch public ratings telling it like it is.
Obviously his alt account is in Legendary, duh :P
Oh yeah totally not legendary :o, these back pieces come from bronze
You’re Joking, right?
PvE attraction. No ascended rewards next season please. Helps PvE people, not PvPers. It’s nice I admit, albeit unnecessary. All it does is attract people who don’t try and just want the rewards.
Never saw this in gold and plat.
I wonder why they have avoided speaking about ascended rewards in pvp so much. That usually means they haven’t decided on a official position yet and are discussing it internally.
Had blue team lost, people would have blamed the double duo queue in red team.
I think it would be best to raise the bleeding stacks on death blossom to change it from an attrition skill to a burst skill. Maybe from 3 to 9? Remove the evade frames and lower cast and aftercast time. I want condi thf to still exist.
I honestly don’t think anything is overpowered right now. problem with war is ambiguity in what counters it, thf having a slight advantage in top tier decap game, and certain dh and thf builds being too rewarding for so little input.
1. d/d condi thf
2. acro staff thf
3. full trapper dh
4. lb druid
5. procmancer reaperbasically anything that can spam the same 2-3 skills over and over again and just win a fight that way.
also thfs tend to think all dh builds are braindead. any dh can be braindead and kill an average thf so it makes sense thfs tend to whine the most about dh.
You must be terrible to be losing duels to a Necro regularly on any class really. They are mainly attrition based (need time to get rolling) group oriented class. That procmancer build has horrible life force management and is easily killed if you can focus it at the start of fights. Nothing spammy about necros either imo at least not in comparison to anything else. This game in general sadly is a spam fest.
The title of the thread is brain dead, not op.
1. d/d condi thf
2. acro staff thf
3. full trapper dh
4. lb druid
5. procmancer reaper
basically anything that can spam the same 2-3 skills over and over again and just win a fight that way.
also thfs tend to think all dh builds are braindead. any dh can be braindead and kill an average thf so it makes sense thfs tend to whine the most about dh.
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Technically speaking, it’s not grinding if you do 10 placement matches then stop to sit at the top.
If power rev is still good in top level play, then it sounds like the problem isn’t with shiro and glint. Sounds like ventari,mallyx, and jalis need to be buffed.
I think it’s fine that mesmers and thiefs can carry with good rotations. I think the real problem is that we need more decappers. As in, we need more builds on other classes that can assume the same function as thf and mesmer when it comes to rotation work. As it stands, since the rev nerf, thf is apex, which isn’t too bad on itself, since ele is apex at support. Similarly though, i think we need more alternatives to support ele right now, such as making druid and/or ventari comparable to tempest auramancer in support.
Yea gs warriors are deadly when using dh. Probably one of the funnest duels I’ve ever had. Signet of might+skullgrinder> arc divider = dead if you’re not paying attention. It’s honestly hilarious when a dh gets dropped in 5 seconds from that.
It doesn’t matter how I play it I’m not good with the class and I still win. And with the class I think I’m good with and I enjoy playing I lose all my games. That’s the point!
You’re a thf main? If i were you, i wouldn’t play this game. There’s been enough thf complaint threads lately about thf being brain dead and op.
I’m a pvp vet and in plat and i would also like to get shards on repeat from byzantium. I would even be happy with just getting 10 shards since i know it’s infinite.
I tried playing GS/mace/shield zerker and i honestly felt like i had more impact in a fight by either playing corruptionmancer or marauder symbolic guardian. Even with the range on arc divider, it just felt like the enemy could recover easily from the blow. Meanwhile, if i attack a point using symbol guard, i could always drop symbols, immbolize and cc the target through test of faith to score my aoe damage on the point. Similarly on reaper, when i bomb a point i am also ccing it thanks to chill and fear and aoe corruption. And if i try to mix in some mace f1 into the chain as warrior, it really only cc’s one target.
I didn’t really like the style of the gameplay, but maybe i just need to get into the groove of it first. But i honestly felt a lot more useless playing warrior than guard or necro and not OP at all. Maybe i had more sustain than either, but i didn’t feel like i was a threat except to maybe an ele or a necro.
I don’t blame a necro for losing to a burn guard. Meta necros are geared towards corruptions more so than condi transfers. Yea a necro could equip every condo transfer skill in their tool set and kill a burn guard easily, but then your necro isnt as good as what he’s supposed to do: corrupt boons. As a meta condi necro you have about 2 condi transfers in staff and plague signet and one condi clear on heal skill. That really isn’t enough to handle the amount of burn a guard can repeatedly place on you. The burn guard meanwhile, when you transfer hos burns back to him has: f2, purging flames, smite condition or contemplation of purity, smite on heal, and focus 4 if they take it over torch.
and burn guard also is constrained in their chose of skill if they want to burn… saying you cant equip something cuz your build orientation and the other can equip all their disponible skill and traits without lossing their build objectives is wrong,very wrong. burn guards need torch, need JI, use purging flames mainly as ofensive than a condi clear etc.
nah, it’s still in the burn guard’s favor. Do note i am not saying burn guard is op or broken. It’s below medi trapper and symbolic. What i am saying is that i don’t blame a necro for having trouble with a burn guard any more than i could be mad at an engi, druid or thf for losing that fight.
I don’t blame a necro for losing to a burn guard. Meta necros are geared towards corruptions more so than condi transfers. Yea a necro could equip every condo transfer skill in their tool set and kill a burn guard easily, but then your necro isnt as good as what he’s supposed to do: corrupt boons. As a meta condi necro you have about 2 condi transfers in staff and plague signet and one condi clear on heal skill. That really isn’t enough to handle the amount of burn a guard can repeatedly place on you. The burn guard meanwhile, when you transfer hos burns back to him has: f2, purging flames, smite condition or contemplation of purity, smite on heal, and focus 4 if they take it over torch.
Maybe what thf needs is not a mobility counter but another class that can compete with a thf for the same role and not be an upgrade to thf like rev was before the nerfs. I also think we need more builds that can compete with mesmer and ele for their roles.
What about, instead of an icd, making PI trigger on the thf if his headshot is reflected? I bet that would punish careless spamming. But it probably wouldn’t help necro, just ele and mes.
p/p engi could replace the role of thf as a +1 but without the mobility it can’t really compete as a decapper, which makes it an inferior choice. given that some people have been complaining that thf doesn’t really have competition in terms of mobility, maybe anet can look into making p/p engi a thf’s decapper competition?
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I think if the icd actually helps bad thfs by keeping from spamming head shot, then adding an icd is definitely a good thing because it instills good habits (ie: not spamming). I just want the icd not to be something stupid like 20 seconds, that’s too much. I think anywhere from 2-5 seconds icd is reasonable.
Furthermore, unlike most of the people who seem to want an icd on IP, i honestly don’t see how it’s practical to spam head shot. If i use black powder, followed by heartseeker and steal to land a HS and backstab. That’s already 9 initiative, leaving 6 points left for one head shot, and then you gotta wait for more initiative. I don’t see head shot spamming as a problem unless the thf doesn’t open with HS+BP and i don’t see why you wouldn’t do that as a thf.
Reasonable request. Might make the animation cooler looking too. Cosigned.
I think there are two separate complaints about thf right now:
1. one complaint is that thf has no reliable counter at higher levels of play. not in terms of 1v1, because a thf can always be either defeated or matched by a dh, war or engi, but because these 3 counters don’t have the mobility to keep up with a thf’s decaps and +1.
2. the other complaint is from the lower levels of play where, especially classes with limited access to stability, get spam interrupted by thfs basically dying without being able to mount a response. There’s also the issue whether vault spam and condi spam thf variants deserve a nerf.
I think complaint number 1 is very interesting and requires more discussion. Complaint number 2, i think, can simply be resolved by switching to classes that aren’t so vulnerable to thf, such as engi, dh or war. The issue with infinite evade thf variants should probably be looked at (much like the full trapper dh which at this point should probably just be put out to pasture since it’s not really a good build).
The thing is, he seems to know what professions he can use to counter burn guards, but he just seems to be mad because he would rather play rev and doesn’t want to switch.
I have seen a traper druid downing thiefs from traps alone .. OP ? No. The build is bad in annything exept mobility and its OK in 1:1. Burn DH is a L2P issue or you play something that can´t handle condies which is a build issue.
I agree as meditraper burn guard is a total noob shredder and can even get better players depending on situation. DH is efficient with low effort.Can you explain how it is an L2P issu? So getting insta 5 burns from judges intervention is an L2P issue because the guardian was able to target you? or how about the burn guardian melting your team in a team fight because you dont have an ele. This game isnt revolved around perfect team comps, it’s solo and duo queue. 1 build shouldn’t be able to determine the entire outcome of a team fight just because it has an absurdly broken amount of consistent burn damage.
It’s 3 burns on judge’s intervention and condi guard probably excels more than any other class on condi cleave bombs due to permeating wrath but it requires targets to be close to eachother. I think pp engi does burst condi better than burn guard on single target though, and condi necro is ultimately better at condi cleave due to the higher volume of condis and also the benefits of boon corruption, it’s just as not as fast as a burn guard.
Yep and both P\P engi and necro have far more counters to them, Burn guardians can live forever, they’re extremely tanky with tons of condi cleanse, boons and CC.
I guess you switched back to talking about burn dh instead of burn guard?
I don’t know what to tell you, man. I mean, yea, a burn dh has more sustain than a burn guard, but i’m honestly not sure that increase in sustain is worth the loss in spike condi damage. I think if you’re gonna go dh, you might as well go medi trapper or symbol. If you’re gonna go condi, radiance, virtues and valor is way better. Due to the limited amount of condi a burn guard can apply, it makes more sense to spike your target as fast as possible before they cleanse to get as much damage in, so i think a condi guard is better than a condi dh in that regard.
I mean, i guess i can empathize with you? Last night i got wrecked by a burn guard in unranked while playing menders druid, but what more could i expect with only 2 condi cleanses? Signet of renewal and astral form are great for getting rid of a lot of condis at once, but it’s kind of a waste to use it on a single burn stack that’s killing you fast but a burn guard will just reapply in a few seconds anyway. So it’s gg me. Had i been playing an ele, necro, warrior or dh, i would have had that guardian for breakfast, so i pressume you’re playing something that lacks condi cleanses?
(edited by Kuya.6495)
I have seen a traper druid downing thiefs from traps alone .. OP ? No. The build is bad in annything exept mobility and its OK in 1:1. Burn DH is a L2P issue or you play something that can´t handle condies which is a build issue.
I agree as meditraper burn guard is a total noob shredder and can even get better players depending on situation. DH is efficient with low effort.Can you explain how it is an L2P issu? So getting insta 5 burns from judges intervention is an L2P issue because the guardian was able to target you? or how about the burn guardian melting your team in a team fight because you dont have an ele. This game isnt revolved around perfect team comps, it’s solo and duo queue. 1 build shouldn’t be able to determine the entire outcome of a team fight just because it has an absurdly broken amount of consistent burn damage.
It’s 3 burns on judge’s intervention and condi guard probably excels more than any other class on condi cleave bombs due to permeating wrath but it requires targets to be close to eachother. I think pp engi does burst condi better than burn guard on single target though, and condi necro is ultimately better at condi cleave due to the higher volume of condis and also the benefits of boon corruption, it’s just as not as fast as a burn guard.
I think that:
1. you undervalue the amount of aoe damage the enemy team is taking during the initial confrontation
2. it seems while you didn’t state it, your scenario assumes your team doesn’t have a support ele because it’s hard to imagine a warrior going down with a tempest there to support and no peels from the other 2.
I don’t understand your scenario at all. How does a 5v5 turn into a 4v4 where your team is on low health with no cds but the enemy team doesn’t suffer the same consequences? Your scenario basically assumes the enemy isn’t trying to dps or heal.
It actually makes more sense to me for the thf to quickly decap far after getting a kill at mid. If the thf decaps far, the respawn might be tempted to waste their time capping it rather than return to mid fight, meanwhile your thf, being the fastest roamer, can get back to mid quickly to +1 another target. The assumption here however is that the thf’s team doesn’t lose the 4v4 in which case that’s not the thf’s fault at all. In fact, if your team can’t win 4v4 and can only win 5v5 when the thf is there, it gives the impression that the thf might be carrying you.
Ironically, a minion master necro is a beautiful sight for a burn guard.
I can understand complaining about a full trapper guardian in low rank pvp but a burn guard. Well, not even burn guard. Burn dh????
I am so confused right now.
And as far as buffing rev is concerned, i hope they focus more on buffing jalis and ventari instead.
I think d/p thf is fine. What needs a nerf is the d/d and vault evade spamming variants. Don’t know how though. I don’t think mesmer needs a nerf. It gets shut down by d/p thf and dh rather easily. What do people think about mesmer that is over performing right now?
As for war, i don’t think it’s op but i also don’t really know what class is supposed to counter it. I would imagine that necros counter warriors but my impression has been that necros hate facing stacked warrior teams, probably because of the cc spam and resistance uptime.
Necros counters wariors?
This is why devs should ever listen to players.
Its amazing u think that necros counter warriors.
And some of u ask me why i rage so much…….
Not sure why you’re so upset. I already mentioned why necros hate facing warriors, but condi damage is the only thing that hurts a warrior until endure painx2 is over, assuming you can convert resistance fast enough. Which leads me to believe a necro can’t 1v1 a warrior due to the resistance and f1 spam but they are excellent for melting away a warrior in a team fight via boon corruption.
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I think d/p thf is fine. What needs a nerf is the d/d and vault evade spamming variants. Don’t know how though. I don’t think mesmer needs a nerf. It gets shut down by d/p thf and dh rather easily. What do people think about mesmer that is over performing right now?
As for war, i don’t think it’s op but i also don’t really know what class is supposed to counter it. I would imagine that necros counter warriors but my impression has been that necros hate facing stacked warrior teams, probably because of the cc spam and resistance uptime.
I think anything over an icd of 1-3 seconds on pulmonary impact would be overkill. I do agree on dropping the evade frames from vault. Maybe add a block on staff 2 or something. Thf also needs more methods to root enemies to set up vault though aside from panic trait and the dagger utility, and basi venom.
A dh can put up a formidable fight against a war, but the problem is if the warrior takes signet of might the dh has to be very very careful not to get hit by any of the big gs skills or otherwise it’s gg. And i don’t think there’s anything honestly wrong with that. It makes it for an exciting fight and you gotta pay attention to what the war is doing. I think the problem with warrior is mostly the double endure pain.
DH is really the only reason warriors are running signet of might at all. its a utility designed to counter 1 specific class. you dodge for 6 seconds and its almost like magic no more signet of might. i know you would rather nerf a class than try to get better at the game. but go try to play warrior for a bit IN HIGH TIER PLAY. its a noob stomper. landing headbutt on skilled players is not easy.
I imagine you must have been replying to someone else given that your answer has nothing to do with what i suggested. Or at least, i hope so.
A dh can put up a formidable fight against a war, but the problem is if the warrior takes signet of might the dh has to be very very careful not to get hit by any of the big gs skills or otherwise it’s gg. And i don’t think there’s anything honestly wrong with that. It makes it for an exciting fight and you gotta pay attention to what the war is doing. I think the problem with warrior is mostly the double endure pain.
So a few days ago i made a thf (i’m a dh main) since i wanted to have more options for counter comping. I tried that vault spam build. Good god. Massive aoe damage everywhere and the enemy can’t do anything about it. Bound, vault, bound, vault, bound, vault. Amazing.
Thank goodness i have an undodgeable pull on spear of justice to punish that evade spamming cheese. On a positive note though, playing around with thf has taught me that you can and should dodge vault since that is where most of the damage comes from and they use dodge to proc the daredevil runes and bound trait to proc a garaunteed critical hit on vault with an added 10% damage bonus. So don’t dodge bound, but dodge vault if you must.
It feels good to multi class.
Yea, i like that the secondary mechanic actually matters in skyhammer and getting it is actually an important contribution to the team as opposed to someone running beast at start or trebbing badly.
A druid + ele combo doesn’t have a lot of burst and mobility, so maybe you can tie them up in an unwinnable stalemate somewhere, while your roamers decap/cap other points.
I like how in this thread, people have complained about medi trappers, burn guards, symbol guards, and full trappers.
If anything, it seems DH is the only class in this game to have actually achieved true viable build variety.
power dh> thf and mes
power thf> rev, mes, necro, ele
power rev> dh, ele, necro (needs the drop)
support ele>dh, engi, rng
bruiser engi> dh, thf, rev
bruiser rng>dh, thf, rev,
condi mes> rev, rng (maybe), engi (maybe)
condi necro> engi, rng, dh (maybe), ele (maybe)
condi war> ele, rev, mes (maybe), thf (maybe), rng, engi (maybe?), necro (maybe)
hmm, it seems i think condi war is too OP, but i honestly don’t think it’s that strong. too easy to kite. It’s just that it gets to keep the point during the fight i suppose since you gotta avoid skullgrinder if you don’t have enough stability (which is why i am not so sure if engis should have such a problem with condi wars).
edit: i just noticed i didn’t put anything that counters warrior. anybody know what counters it?
(edited by Kuya.6495)
And to think just a year ago people were harassing warrior mains to change their classes before a match even started.
dh symbolic menders can only be stalemated by paladin or menders engi or menders druid. but marauder dh symbolic can be taken out with gs power warrior, power rev, or a druid running that unblockable kitten.
A free pass to what? Classes and builds with plenty of access to stability and stun breaks have counters for it, and those classes and builds that don’t, have a harder time dealing with it. Meanwhile, a necro, who has a hard time dealing with thfs, has an easier time dealing with classes that spam stability because they can corrupt it. A dh, on the other hand, has a tough time dealing with engis and druids, among other reasons, because of the access to stability that negates tof combos. On the flip side, thf and necro, who have limited access to stability, fall prey to dh cc much more easily.
(edited by Kuya.6495)
I think fields that blind work differently than destroy or reflect projectiles. Anything that enters a blind field misses, which is not the same as being destroyed or reflected.