Guild Wars 2

OP, you need to understand that the game is balanced around pvp. Always has been, always will be.

PvErs have never liked it, but those of us that were around in GW1 know and understand that this is how Anet works. Yes, GW2 was (supposedly) designed as primarily a pve game; however, pvp has always been the scene in which Anet has catered to. Nothing wrong with that necessarily. As such, yes, they are going to take feedback from their top tier pvp players into heavy consideration when they do balancing. Those people eat, breathe, and sleep the classes they play. As such, they should actually offer some valuable input from a balance perspective.

Yes, Anet has said that they try to look at how a change will impact all game modes before implementing it; however, until they willing start splitting skills and balancing the modes individually, expect PvE balance to always take a back seat.

Soooo…..I guess I’m confused. As a vet, what exactly is the NPE locking me out of again?

I just leveled a Sylvari Ranger (started her shortly before the specializations patch) and an Asura Guardian (started her like last weekend). They aren’t “done” yet (ie, haven’t hit 80), but I neither feel time gated nor locked out of content on either of them. Leveling is no more of a “chore” now than prior to the NPE patch, in fact it’s distinctly faster for me to get from 1 to 15 (less than 30 minutes of play time).

Granted, there are things I dislike about the NPE, but its no where near as horrid as a lot are making it out to be.

I’m going to chime in with those that say a public test server isn’t necessarily the way to go.

I’m on a project currently where we (the developers) code and test our own work in a ‘dev’ environment, then it gets pushed to a ‘test’ environment where our QA team checks it, then it gets pushed to a ‘prod like’ environment where the ‘business’ (we’re contracted out to) does their testing, and then finally gets pushed into the actual production environment. We’re currently facing an issue where our code works in dev and prod like, but is buggy as all hell in test, and we have yet to figure out why (considering the primary differences between the environments is the physical box and who has access).

Beyond that, I have played (currently play) a couple of games that have public test servers, and in some instances it helps, but for the majority it really doesn’t. People aren’t very thorough in what they are checking (they don’t think about the fact that not only do you need to check the new content’s functionality, but you also need to check for any issue with existing functionality that may interact with the new stuff – ie, regression testing), or they aren’t checking the new content at all. Instead they are playing with all the freebie stuff that comes with the test account trying to determine how best to utilize it (when they get it) on their real account.

Oh sadness…and I just put this on my human guardian too (who is partially named after one of my GW1 monks).

Anyone have an image of how this looks on asura? Is it still “ok” on them?

Possible bug? File a support ticket.

If key farming had been silently nixed, we’d have a lot more rage on here I do believe.

Are you doing the whole arc? The part one arc is like 5(?) instances, check the wiki for specifics. But yes, the last instance for the arc rewards the key.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hmmm another stealth nerf?

This wouldn’t be all that hard to test. I’m at work at the moment, but I suppose I can finish the first arc on my baby Asura this evening. I just finished “Readings on the Rise” with her, so I just have 2 more story steps before arc 1 is done.

Xenon.4537:

I think maybe you are misunderstanding. You seem to be talking about gear tiers. I believe most everyone else is talking about combat and bosses just being more engaging. We want gameplay that requires more than just auto-attack. They don’t need to add new gear tiers to accomplish that.

Not specifically, no. Some people also equate “casual” to being able to come and go from the game as we please and not getting punished for doing so. In more traditional MMOs, yes that punishment comes in the form of grinding gear and releveling previously “maxed” characters in order to be able to “play” again.

Yes, the conversation has developed further into more specifics.

Xenon.4537:

And sorry, but it’s difficult not to equate “casual” with “easy mode” because the definition of the word “casual” suggests “easier”.

Bullkitten. The reason people equate “casual” to “we want it easy” is nothing more than a stereotype. This is no different than assuming someone is a thug just because their skin color is black and not white. Stop it.

Yes, some people want that. Hell, I’m not even going to call them “casuals” because I know several who consider themselves “hardcore” that just want kitten handed to them on a platter too. That’s just greed and entitlement. It has nothing to do with “casual” or “hardcore.” Hell, having had this conversation several times prior to this (casual vs hardcore), the “hardcore” crowd has also shown that what they really want is more shinies, not the challenge involved. Shinies, and special snowflakeness.

Yes, we “casuals” don’t want gear gating, and time gating, and all that bullkitten supposedly “hardcore” crap, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t desire a challenge, interesting game play, and something beyond “i swung a sword, i swung a sword again.”

Xenon.4537:

I believe the best course of action is for Anet to dedicate certain resources to please both groups. They can make much of the game accessible to casual play, while adding some hardcore bosses like TT wurm as an option for the hardcore community.

The entire game needs to be accessible to anyone, and it essentially is. However, your level (or your group’s level) of skill should be the determining factor as to whether or not you can actually complete the content you’re trying to tackle…like the Wurm. So, in the general sense I do agree with you.

I started out as R/E in Factions. Got thwomped. Scrapped her. Rolled a Monk, started in Prophecies. She ran with my husband’s ele. Then I started a Necro and she ran with my husbands warrior. Ah the nostalgia…

Anyway, back to the point. My favorite classes for GW1 would be: Ele, Monk, Necro, Mes, Rit. Probably in that order, though my mes was primarily for Pvp purposes where the others where pve based.

As for favorite campaign, Factions. No competition there for me. It was a bit of a kitten to get started in, since I don’t feel it teaches the mechanics of the game or allows you to “get to know” your class as well as Prophecies did, but it’s my favorite storyline and it has some lovely areas.

MiniEquine.6014:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t consider a “Stress Test” to be a “Beta”

They serve two distinctly separate purposes.

And nobody should consider them to be the same.

Stress Tests are for server load.

Betas are for bugs.

You’re correct, nobody should. However….

shrug

I don’t consider a “Stress Test” to be a “Beta”

They serve two distinctly separate purposes.

WoodenPotatoes put out an ele vid for burn stacking, if you’re interested in that (you said you kind of camp in fire). Which he recommended sinister or rampagers gear for that. Figured I’d toss that out there in case you were interested.

Personally, I run a combo of celestial and zerk on my primary ele. I used valk when I was leveling her.

tosses OP anti-flame shield, then grabs popcorn and bunkers down to watch

I opened 104 bandit coin purses on Sunday…think it was Sunday. Last weekend anyway. Got 18 shards total. Which, does seem a bit low. Like Scribe, not sure if that’s intended or a bug at this time. I would not be surprised if they reduced the frequency of these drops though.

I understand where you’re coming from Azure. I think a lot of people actually do. Yes, the hype has dwindled, but that doesn’t really bother me. Personally, though, I never expected the launch to come in August. At the earliest I was thinking mid September; however, given the current state of affairs, now I’m leaning more towards a holiday release.

Most of the EotM maps I’ve been in recently have been a pretty decent mix of k-train, defend, and zerg on zerg (oh how I get squashed).

Still, I look at it this way… if they are k-training in the map that has zero impact on wvw, they ain’t k-training in your borderlands and screwing things up. Now are they?

I think whether someone feels it’s a waste or not is going to vary from person to person. Some don’t care one way or the other, since (as someone else pointed out) we get xp for essentially everything anyway. Others, yes, they feel like they are wasting it and are holding off on doing additional exploration on characters, until they can put that exp towards their core masteries. Personally, I’m somewhere in the middle. I’m holding off on additional exploration on my 80s until I can put those sizable chunks of xp towards the precursor crafting lines. My non-80s though, still playing like normal.

No thank you.

I’m not opposed to adding new, harder to obtain titles, but that’s no reason to remove the existing ones.

Just because title A is easy to get, that should in no way impact the value of title B which is hard to get. They are two totally different things, with two completely separate sets of requirements.

As for titles and respect….. just lol. Those two words just don’t belong in the same sentence together. Even in GW1, when titles were a pain in the kitten to get, rarely did anyone actually respect them. Too many people are too quick to simply see it, and dismiss it as a ‘bought’ achievement, even well before all the assorted shortcuts came out. It’s the same issue we have with the current legendary weapons in GW2.

Crovax.7854:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m ok with the game being “casual.” In fact, I love the ability to walk away and then come back and not be left behind by new gear, new level caps, etc etc.

I am not ok with people equating “Casual” to “Easy mode.”

Same for me. I like that the game is casual friendly. I play maybe 1hour per day average, which is a rather casual mindset but that time is usually spent in fractals 50.
Not having powercreep with new and better gear every patch is nice. So is being able to just run around and enjoy the world, however casual does not mean dumbed down.
Games can be casual and still have challenging content. GW2 is casual yes, but it seems it’s made to appeal to idi*** who can’t read and are overwhelmed by even the simplest of mechanics.
I’m not saying there is no place in GW2 for noob-friendly content but that seems to be all we ever get and I too, am not okay with that.

I agree with you.

My biggest concern with “challenging content” is that people seem to be under the impression that this can only be achieved by making it instanced content that requires ‘x’ number of bodies, and that’s entirely not true.

I’m ok with the game being “casual.” In fact, I love the ability to walk away and then come back and not be left behind by new gear, new level caps, etc etc.

I am not ok with people equating “Casual” to “Easy mode.”

Raif.9507:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

morrolan.9608:

Mantras? Geez I hope we don’t get them. Would far prefer stances but even shouts would be better.

I could see stances, I suppose. Some type of semi-powerful channeled skill, with the drawback of being rooted.

Mantras wouldn’t be bad either; although when I think ‘mantra’ I think of the GW1 version (which were stances) not the GW2 version, which just seem like chargeable cantrips.

Personally, if it’s sword I’d love to see Deceptions and Tricks instead of stances. I think that would fit that better.

I was thinking about tricks, but wasn’t sure how they’d fit precisely. Of course, if we got a sword, it might be interesting to see ele’s get physical attacks too. But they definitely need to give us some better defensive options if they are going to give us another melee range weapon.

morrolan.9608:

Mantras? Geez I hope we don’t get them. Would far prefer stances but even shouts would be better.

I could see stances, I suppose. Some type of semi-powerful channeled skill, with the drawback of being rooted.

Mantras wouldn’t be bad either; although when I think ‘mantra’ I think of the GW1 version (which were stances) not the GW2 version, which just seem like chargeable cantrips.

Going to quote myself from the last time this “GW2 needs a sub fee” topic came up

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I have played sub based games, but I honestly don’t feel there is even one that is worth that monthly payment. Not in addition to having to purchase the game, purchase the expansions, and end up time gated all to hell. Overcharged is what that is.

I enjoy GW2. I plan on buying HoT when it gets released, but GW1 has me spoiled. I know it’s completely possible for a company to produce and maintain a game on box sales and gem shop cosmetics (cause they’re doing it now, and they did it with the prior model). Additionally, having a sub fee isn’t a guarantee of more content more often, or even better quality content. So how does a sub fee benefit me as a consumer? In short, it doesn’t. All it does is create a barrier to entry for those that can’t necessarily afford a monthly subscription fee (for any assortment of reasons) in addition to buying the game.

Although it would perhaps offer Anet a more reliable/guaranteed cash flow with which to pay their employees’ salaries. However, as long as they regularly put new shinies in the gem shop, that achieves essentially the same result.

/agreed

People suck. At least some of us are “nice” enough to just be ourselves. (IE, I’m just as likely to tell you to kitten off in real life as I am here )

So yeah….report, block, carry on OP. Not much more you can do.

Oh, and you need to remove the person’s name from the images and your post, otherwise you’ll get into trouble here.

Considering we have a major holiday in the US this weekend (and most companies actually have Friday off), I don’t think we’ll see anything this week.

Maybe next week; at least I’m hoping next week.

I just got paid, still planning on upgrading my primary account, as well as my husbands.

When it goes on sale I’ll pick up the second account I’ve been planning on getting.

You know, I’m reading through this argument, and I’ll give both sides credit in that they both have valid points. However, valid or not, what this argument boils down to is: do you, as an individual, feel HoT is worth what they are asking for it.

Some of you will shout yes, some of you will shout no, others will waver with a maybe. If you’re one of those that isn’t sure, then wait for more information and make a decision. If you’re one of those that absolutely feels it’s overpriced, then just don’t buy it. It is really just that simple. Either wait for it to go on sale for what you feel is an ‘acceptable’ price (and it will eventually) or move on.

Yes, some of you are going to shout at me “But I bought this game…” and “I deserve…” and “I’m the customer…” blah blah. We all bought this game, not just you. We’ve all played what we purchased. If you want to play the “new shiny” then you’ll have to do the same thing the rest of us are doing, buying it.

It’s really not any different than any other form of entertainment. It’s a bit of gamble (with any game, or movie really), sometimes you like it, sometimes it’s a bust and you decide further purchases aren’t worthwhile. And it’s all well and good to voice your opinion that you don’t think it’s worth the value; however, now we’re going just a bit overboard with the rage.

Now, all that said, on to the real question at hand…. When the hell did we decide Varesh was a “big boss fight”? Gate of Madness, with Shiro and Lich, was so much better (and more difficult) than Ruins of Morah.

I haven’t played with the new system extensively; however, I can see why some people are simply referring to this as a templating system. It is very much laid out that way, locking you into 1 of 3 at each tier. However, to me, the old system was just as much a template system. Had a few more individual options, yes, but it was still just as limiting due to how the traits were structured at that time. Yes, we have fewer total number of options, because we now have fewer traits per line (9 vs 13). However, with the combining, trimming, and rearranging of some of those traits (in conjunction with a few other changes), we now have more potentially desirable builds. That’s the big difference, at least in my opinion.

Didn’t the devs say once that they wouldn’t have flight, like traditional flight, in GW2 because it would trivialize things like Vistas? Its been too long for me to remember exact comments.

I wouldn’t be opposed to warhorn, I suppose. Might be interesting. I can sort of agree with others that another main hand would be very handy, but I’m really not a melee type person. So that sort of makes sword “meh” for me.

I’m a bit more interested in the new 6 – 0 skills tempest will get though.
Mes got wells
Guard got traps
Necro got shouts
What skill type do we think we’ll get?

Lol every time I look, they are hiring people. I’d apply, but I don’t live anywhere near Seattle…nor do I want to.

If they ever offer remote positions, I’ll apply first thing

Jana.6831:

Play the game and you’ll find that there is no compensation.

If there is no compensation, then file a bug in the bug forum. Based on their own comments, there should be. However, like I said, I have no idea what the drop rate is. Eventually that data should make it onto the wiki though.

Jana.6831:

The question was where one gets spiritshards from, the answer: from doing all stuff that formerly gave scrolls of knowledge.

As well as from simply killing monsters as a lvl 80, once the system works they way they said it should.

Jana.6831:

Level up is called level up by the game , not by me. So, complain to them about the “technically unjustified name”.

Now lets go back to your original complaint:

“I could level up by doing anything in game "
And you still can. This has not changed. That’s what I said originally, and have been saying since. You can still level up (even after 80) by doing anything you please.

“now I can only obtain shards (former skillpoints) by doing stuff that formerly gave me scrolls of knowledge”
This is not accurate, which I pointed out. I stated that its true you no longer get one from leveling up after 80, but supposedly they compensated for that. So it’s not “just” stuff that formerly gave scrolls

Jaxom.7310:

Zephiera.9804:

I have to concur with the majority here… I have a small guild that I brought over from GW1, consisting of friends and family. In total we’re about 6 people. But it’s extremely rare to have more than two of us online at the same time. I’ve tried ‘grouping’ with strangers to accomplish something -such as a Fractal mission- and it’s almost always been a disaster. So no, I’m not thrilled with the idea of being forced into ‘alliances’. Yes, I’ve occasionally been lucky and come across some truly helpful individuals, but we’re talking maybe a 2% success rate. The other 98% has been horrible. NOT GOOD ODDS. Am I willing to jump in and help other small groups do their guild hall mission in return for reverse help? Of course. Do I have much faith that this will actually happen? Nope.

i agree… except i think alliances would be a useful addition. did you not like alliances in gw1? i thought of them as my friends’ friends. when there was a mish i didnt’ have enough guildies for, i could just switch to alliance chat and see if anyone was up for it, and the opposite would occur.

felt like an extended social group. i have my friends here, but i’m sorta friend w/ all these other kids in class and they might want to do stuff w/ me at times.

right now in gw2, its like, i have my friends right here, and then if i need more help i need to find some strangers from out of the blue that may or may not help

My concern with alliances has to do with guild size in GW2.

In GW1 a guild was allowed 100 members, an alliance was allowed 10 guilds, for a max of 1000 people. Some of the alliances and their “sisters” got amazingly out of hand.

In GW2, max size is 500. What would an alliance cap at? Even if we went half the number of GW1, we’re still talking a potential for 2500 people. At what point do we just become a nameless faceless mob?

Jana.6831:

You can’t level up anymore – it looks as if it is happening, but it isn’t – so you can’t level up after level 80 in this game anymore which was the case prior the latest big patch There is nothing to rephrase – that is the bland truth.

And I’ll say it again – you weren’t technically leveling up as an 80 prior to the patch either. Your level did not go up. Your experience bar filled up, and then it rolled over, and you filled it up again. However, your level did not change. But you did get a shiny skill point instead. It’s silly that we refer to this as ‘leveling up’ when that’s not what’s happening, but hey we’ll roll with it.

All the new system did was remove the reward when you filled the bar. Everything else functions the same way. By your own words, this is all still working accordingly.

Jana.6831:

No, they don’t all the did was turning scrolls of knowledge into spiritshards.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_Shard
“Acquisition[edit]
Random drops for level 80 characters”

“Leveling up after level 80 no longer grants skill points, but level 80 characters will be able to loot spirit shards off of monsters.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/updating-your-wallet/

And again – they compensated. Although, it’s entirely possible that it’s not functioning correctly.

Jana.6831:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You can still “level up” doing anything in the game, even after hitting 80.
However, that’s not what you were getting at (you might want to disassociate the two, or rephrase). Yes, you no longer gain a shard when you max out your XP bar after you reach max level. Supposedly, to compensate for that, we’re supposed to be able to loot shards from mobs. I don’t have drop data on that though, and I haven’t had much time to play the last several days. I’m sure some people will get that up on the wiki in due time.

What’s your problem?

You don’t level up anymore (when already level 80)
You only gain spiritshards by doing activities that formerly gave scrolls of knowledge.

So what is it you want me to rephrase or to rethink or whatever?

You stated that you could level up by doing anything in the game. That remains true, in the basic sense of what leveling up means.

However, I got what you were driving at, in that at 80, once you fill your xp bar you don’t get a point (now a shard) anymore. And I agreed yes, that was changed, and supposedly they compensated for that.

Regarding leveling up when already an 80: Technically you didn’t level up anymore prior either. You didn’t go from 80 to 81. Your xp bar just rolled over. Which, my understanding is that it still does, we just don’t get anything for it. Or did they change that and it doesn’t roll anymore?

The larger guilds do it faster. That is their reward. They get to have the shiney new toys first.

Considering they are changing how guild missions are done as well as how certain things are obtained in order to put guilds on more equal footing (“small guilds couldn’t hope to keep up”) that tells me that small guilds should, by their own wording, be able to keep up. At least to a certain extent. We’ll do it at a slower pace, but we’ll all eventually reach that finish line.

Jana.6831:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Actually considering this functionality hasn’t changed, then it wasn’t “play as you like” prior either. The only thing that’s changed is the actual item acquired (and where it’s stored).

No. I could level up by doing anything in game – now I can only obtain shards (former skillpoints) by doing stuff that formerly gave me scrolls of knowledge – so it has changed.

You can still “level up” doing anything in the game, even after hitting 80.

However, that’s not what you were getting at (you might want to disassociate the two, or rephrase). Yes, you no longer gain a shard when you max out your XP bar after you reach max level. Supposedly, to compensate for that, we’re supposed to be able to loot shards from mobs. I don’t have drop data on that though, and I haven’t had much time to play the last several days. I’m sure some people will get that up on the wiki in due time.

Jana.6831:

Gator.5729:

I got about 80 in just one day, since they automatically add to you wallet now I can’t be to sure exactly where I got them from. So they seem to be rather easy to get. Just occasionally check your wallet you may be getting them faster than you think.

No, not that easy as you have to kill champs/bosses, you can’t get them otherwise – so it’s not “play as you like” which is what people could do before this patch.

Actually considering this functionality hasn’t changed, then it wasn’t “play as you like” prior either. The only thing that’s changed is the actual item acquired (and where it’s stored).

I’m estimating 84 as well.

Existing spec lines are 60, so I would guess 60 for the new spec.
Existing skill training that have 6 skills (1 heal, 4 util, 1 elite) are 24. Since we know the elite specs come with 6 skills, I’m guessing the same point cost there.

What we don’t know, is where/how they will be adding in the unique skins and such that we’ve been told will come with the elite specs. Those could be sprinkled in the lines, or they could be some type of reward track, or an achievement thing.

“in GW2 it is far more story driven.”
Yes, it’s far more story driven. So you’re saying if it has story impact, the smaller guilds should in fact not be able to progress because they aren’t big enough? Because depending on how story driven it actually is, this could end up being the case. Again, this becomes a ‘conform or gtfo.’

“guilds should have opportunities gained by them for work and effort put in”
And a small guild obviously cannot work just as hard as a large guild because we can’t field as many bodies? That’s asinine. They’ll definitely do it slower and require more time, but if they aren’t restricted by an arbitrary body count (which is exactly what you’re saying this should be), small guilds can be just as persistent and work just as hard as their larger counter parts.

“Small guilds can use the social guild hall provided in lions arch”
That’s not a guild hall. Not even close.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

From what Anet said, it seems like anything that originally dropped scrolls of knowledge will now drop spirit shards instead. I got some from dailies Wednesday. Can still find them in champ bags,I believe. Also, using a tome of knowledge on a lvl 80 character will award one.

Was it only things that gave scrolls of knowledge? I thought anything that gave a skill point was supposed to give a spirit shard (i.e. including leveling, which doesn’t as far as I can tell, so I don’t think a Tome would either)

Either way it appears to be at a rate significantly reduced, even for the ones that do.
Out of dozens of bags I’ve received 1 single shard, it seems the main source is supposed to be the daily 3 shard bag.

They stated that the original skill point system should have been 2 systems with 2 sep currencies (and I think most of us agree with that assessment).

The first system has to do with obtaining skills (and traits). We now have hero points for that systems currency. These come from leveling 1-80, and from completing hero challenges (previously called skill challenges). We no longer get anything for filling the xp bar after 80 – at least for the time being.

In this system, a tome of knowledge still functions as it did previously for any character under 80 – it grants them a level. Using a tome of knowledge on a lvl 80 though, will not grant a shard, per the blog. Writs of experience can only be used on characters under level 80, or 20 of them can be traded for a tome of knowledge.

The second system dealt with purchasing the mystic forge materials, which is where spirit shard comes in. Anet stated that players will no longer get ‘skill points’ for filling the xp bar after 80; however, we would be able to loot shards from some monsters and that items that used to grant skill points in a repeatable fashion (such as scrolls) would become shards and continue to be obtained via whatever method they were previously obtained (like champ bags).

Its all in the blog they posted about the change.

Edit: I haven’t personally noted a diminished rate for these, but it’s quite possible and not completely unexpected.

From what Anet said, it seems like anything that originally dropped scrolls of knowledge will now drop spirit shards instead. I got some from dailies Wednesday. Can still find them in champ bags,I believe. Also, using a tome of knowledge on a lvl 80 character will award one.

Considering Logan and Rytlock just made up, I’m pretty sure if Logan dies, Rytlock will go back to the Mists, hunt his kitten down and drag him back. Those two are an interesting couple, to put it mildly.

As for the rest… I don’t think Eir is presently dead, although by the end of the HoT story, she very well could be. Braham finds her, just to lose her in the end kind of thing. Caithe I think is important to the present storyline, so she’s “safe” for the time being. Zojja obviously can’t die before Eir does for that story drama.

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Its not about loving, or not loving our guild. It’s that we’re being told we’re not good enough, despite loving our guild. We’re being told that being small is not acceptable. Based on comments made, its starting to feel like unless we are ‘x’ size (number still not finalized) we are not considered guilds.

And our only recourse is to “invite more people!”; regardless of the intent, makeup or structure of our Guilds. Because obviously the fault is ours for not being a real Guild. We couldn’t possibly have any actual grounds for concern, because we’re just oversized parties. /sarcasm.

<3

Voreo Sabrae.5416:

WoW does it, so why couldn’t GW2 do it.

This is not WoW.
We do not want it to be WoW.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Lanfear says she wants the thing to be bone-breakingly hard for solos and she’ll be fine with that, so long as it’s actually possible, i.e. no bodycount gating.

Now you’re getting what I’m saying. I just want the option.

It should very much beat my kitten and spit me out if I’m not up to snuff. Hell it should completely boot me out and say ‘start over hunny.’

It shouldn’t matter if you take 1 person or 100 people. Its not easier with less, its not easier with more. It should be the same difficulty.
Now that said, depending on how many you take, it should absolutely require different tactical approaches. (But that’s just logic, at least it is to me)

@Kal

smh

“One person should not be a contender for running a dungeon”
“Your average five man guild will not be able to run this alone. "

Why? Does it really upset your sense of self so much that someone would like to do this? Wants the option to be able to do this? That not everyone wants to pug everything just because they don’t have some huge pool of people to bug?

The entire game was built with the intention of scaling. Granted, it’s been done poorly, and needs a bit of an overhaul, but there is no reason why things like dungeons, fractal, and yes the claiming mission couldn’t be made to scale while still offering the same challenge.

And don’t give me the argument that having it scale so that the option to do it in a smaller group is viable will devalue the content or the achievements of larger groups. Those that want to do it in larger groups will. Those that want to pug it will.

This is not WoW. We do not want it to be WoW where chunks of content are only seen by 10% or less of the population. Obviously that’s not really working for WoW anymore either, considering they have been making that content more accessible.

Windsagio.1340:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Windsagio.1340:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

thomdane.3670:

From Colin Johanson:
Lord.4270:
Hi,
We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.
So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !
Why can t we play as we want .. ??

ColinJohanson:
HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.
Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

In other words

“If you aren’t at least 15 people, you aren’t a guild”

RIP – SSW
Founded June 1st 2006

Is asking for help so terrible?

Some of us prefer to do things ourselves, with people we know and trust. Isn’t that the whole point of a guild? Not all guilds are a dozen+ people, nor do they desire to be necessarily. (I have actually grown my guild up to roughly 30 people twice previously, but that’s beside the point).

Its not even about asking for help, though. It’s about setting the precedent as to what a “guild” is or is not. If anet sets this arbitrary number at 10 or 15, then what is Destiny’s Edge? The lore has set forth that with just 5 people, they are a guild. Where, if they do put forth 10+ is required, Anet is blatantly stating that you are not a guild until you are at least that big. That screws the lore. It screws the small guilds, some of which are loyal followers that transitioned their guilds from GW1 to GW2.

They never said that though, what they’ve said does imply an attitude that most guild hall activities are for larger guilds, but they’re not saying your 6-person guild isn’t a guild.

Don’t borrow offense, this is a limitation on gameplay and a realization that most of their functionality doesn’t matter to smaller guilds.

If you’re willing to scuttle a 10 year old (almost) build because you’re piqued over a perceived conceptualization of guilds that you don’t like, you can’t really love the guild that much.

No, they are just implying it. That really doesn’t make it better. I guess I’m not surprised, they essentially told small guilds to gfto when they introduced guild missions. We should have taken the hint that we were no longer wanted at that point.

Its not about loving, or not loving our guild. It’s that we’re being told we’re not good enough, despite loving our guild. We’re being told that being small is not acceptable. Based on comments made, its starting to feel like unless we are ‘x’ size (number still not finalized) we are not considered guilds.

Atlas.9704:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Or you could always grow your guild

Halls are pretty and all, but I’ve been meaning to ask a question.
Please excuse me if this was asked elsewhere.

Do I need a Hall to access my Guild Bank?
Because I don’t plan on growing my little self bank guild enough to tackle a Hall.

No, there will be something in LA. It’s currently there, just not accessible yet.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The main problem here is that you’re in the wrong argument. Every time you say, “a five man guild should be able to complete the content,” it gets read as, “the content should be adjusted and balanced for a five man guild.” Dungeons aren’t adjusted, nor balanced for a solo, that’s never been a thing (until Arah personal story change just now.) Therefore if all you want is to not be physically gated, then that should be your argument.

And that’s an issue with their reading comprehension. I want the content to be doable for all size guilds. Which means that it balances itself around the number of people that enter the instance. Please do not read that as “easier in smaller groups” because that’s not what I am saying either. I don’t want its initial design to be “intended for 10 people” for example. Oh sure its doable with fewer, as long as they don’t throw any body count gimmicks in there. And sure, it’ll scale up if you take more. Although with the current scaling system, that just equates to zerg it down, greater body count = easier. I want a truly dynamic instance, I suppose, but sadly that’s not likely to happen. They are going to design it as ‘x’ number is ideal – similar to dungeons and fractals.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I don’t want entrance to the Guild Hall to be gated behind some arbitrary guild size. Any guild, regardless of size, should be allowed to give it a shot. If they fail because they’re not good/strong enough, then that’s on them. As long as the opportunity isn’t out of their hands then it’s fine.

The problem is, because we know how this is going to be designed (because of how the rest of the game is designed), in a sense it’s going to be. Oh sure, as other’s have pointed out, if you can’t field enough people on your own you can PuG up, but some of us see that as demeaning. As I said before, why is it perfectly ok for smaller guilds to lose out on their sense of achievement?

What’s being asked for can be done. The technology to do so exists. They have the basis for it in their scaling system. It would just take some additional work on their part. Besides, we’d like the scaling system to be fixed anyway.

Kal Spiro.9745:

If that’s what you’re arguing, then I really don’t think anyone here has anything against it.

This is where you’re wrong. Take a look at Devil and few other people’s posts. They honestly feel that if you aren’t “big enough” you shouldn’t be a contender. That by being a contender, we’re diminishing their value, their achievement (which is asinine). Devil has directly stated that this content “needs” to be balanced around at least a 15 man group and then scale up from there. That allowing for smaller groups to complete it would “devalue” his 170 member guild’s accomplishment.

While I’m not a raid person, I’m not saying those groups can’t have, or don’t deserve, content for them to do. I am simply saying that this, the claiming of our guild halls, should not necessarily be “only” for that type of group.

Different strokes for different folks OP.

You don’t like this NPC because it’s gambling, that’s fine. It’s not your thing. Other people do like it. They have lots of gold and are having a little bit of fun. Let them.

I’m sorry you have a bad experience with this npc, but lofl. You really should have “figured it out” well before you “lost everything.” You compare this to the NPC from the lunar festival, and that is actually relatively accurate. You could take a loss there as well, and some people did.

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

spoj.9672:

Kal Spiro.9745:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

We all know that any size group will be able to start the claiming expedition. ANyone who figures there’s going to be a lockout is dumb. ArenaNet has never implemented a minimum-size lockout in any GW game, to the best of my knowledge. Anyone can try anything solo if they want it.

What this discussion seems to be wanting is for the content to be designed for solos/twobies, then scaled up for larger groups if necessary. That’s horse manure. It’s completely and utter crap and we all freaking know it, eh? If the content is designed for twobies and then told to scale up, guess what? Everyone will do it with twobies – even the largest five hundred-man guilds. Because that’s what it was built for.

The content should be designed for that fifteen-man balance point. Or, if I were to have my perfect-world wish here, it’d be designed for a ten-man team, but either way. If it scales down, it scales down to five and no lower. If a solo or a twobie or three beer buddies from Wuv want to tackle the content, then they can run it below that scaling level and feel even more awesome when they manage to claim what should have taken between two and seven more guys to manage.

But you do not get to scrap the claiming event entirely, or turn it into a lowball milk run. Again, there’s not going to be any “you must have this many in your party to start this event” junk, but if you’re honestly hoping they’ll redesign the event to be built for solos…well, maybe the ‘Guild’ part of Guild Wars isn’t your thing.

So you’re saying that you don’t want us to devalue your sense of accomplishment. However, because we don’t meet ‘x’ size, it’s perfectly fine to devalue ours instead by making us PuG it.

That’s like saying it’s ok to devalue a group’s ability to run dungeons, or high level fractals by making them intentionally soloable. This is meant to be content for groups, for groups of groups even. It’s not quite a raid, but it’s working on it, I suspect.

So yes, it’s ok to “devalue” your accomplishment by forcing you to PuG because you don’t have the necessary numbers to handle it on your own. Someone will always be dissatisfied. Better to have the group of five dissatisfied than the group of hundreds.

Again you are misunderstanding Lanfears intention. We can solo dungeons and fractals but they are designed for 5 man groups. The only ones we cant solo are ones which have player checks (cof p1 gate). This is the kind of thing Lanfear and other small guilds would like to avoid. It doesnt mean the content should be designed for groups that small. It just means it should be possible even if it is incredibly difficult.

Thank you Spoj, that is exactly my point in this particular junction of the topic. People solo, duo, trio specific dungeon paths all the time, yet we aren’t screaming that they are devaluing the accomplishment of 5 man teams. Instead, we’re asking them to make videos of them soloing lupi, or make walk throughs of how to duo Arah so that more of us can give it an attempt.

If that’s all you want, has it been said that you will be physically gated by size, or that they just expect players to need an arbitrary number of people because it’s hard? I didn’t watch this stream that apparently gave you all the answers and has you raging, so I can’t really say either way.

I’m not raging. Simply having a lively discussion regarding the topic, and defending my stance. No, nothing definitive has been stated; we’re just working off comments that have been made. Given the comments Colin has posted, some of us smaller guilds don’t have a good feeling. However, we’d like to have these concerns taken into consideration (maybe even addressed). At this point, the last comment was that they have not finalized that number, which makes this discussion all that more important.

Many of these sentiments/concerns about smaller guilds and their inclusion in future content were brought up during the Guild Halls CDI. At that time Chris Whiteside did comment that small guilds (even the ones as small as mine) should not be dismissed/left out simply due to size. Sadly, he is no longer with Anet and I am beginning to wonder if part of the reason for that is due to some of these forthcoming decisions.