Guild Wars 2

Nix.3152:

Laraley.7695:

And then you have ele with under 11K hp and even less toughness

with marauder(old berserker) you have 17245hp on ele. and yes you have less toughness but you are in a burst build. i think noone will run rabid on ele.
what happened after patch is celestial builds remain strong and anything condi based become weaker in terms of sustain.

The fact ele has to use an amulet with vitality still remains. Engi can take Marauder, too.

philheat.3956:

ArthurDent.9538:

The combo has been available for months now, maybe over a year, blinding ashes and burning precision even got their icd’s increased.

Problem is now 6/6/6 is available for everyone.

Honestly Fresh air Eles with blinding ashes have a terrible design, a ton of instant damage with a ton of blind.

I’ve spectate a lot 1vs1 duel arena and i can say is really broken right now.

It’s only good for 1v1’s, the ICD is not per target. They even nerfed burning precision.

And then you have ele with under 11K hp and even less toughness

poof and it’s gone

WhiteCrow.5310:

Don’t mind Laraley guys. She’s a salty Ele who has an axe to grind against Necros; maybe from stripping all her boons. :P

Lol, I’m not salty. Why would I be? And I have basically 0 problems with necros, I think it’s cool some builds are strong at least in small scale fights. The fact I don’t like stuff such as Chill of death doesn’t mean I have something against the class. It’s not even about that, it’s about everyone crying how necro is horrible without even trying out builds.

Last exam tomorrow so did only a bit of testing, but felt that with zerker the damage was good. However, with marauder it didn’t really feel that great. Maybe the traits I picked weren’t best, or other stuff, but I definitely didn’t feel like the damage got seriously buffed. You have a bit higher power, but you lose on some prec and ferocity + losing Btth and air training. Will need a bit more testing, though.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

yeah, like, of all the people trying to play necromancers, not even one has come up with a meta build so far (don’t know after the patch). Please, don’t be ridiculous.

(and i agree on the passive bad design, sames as with the elementalist cleansing conditions with a passive… no way to damage him being a condi necro!)

I never stated necromancers will be meta, but crying about how necromancer is so useless and it’s completely unviable is just ridiculous. They’re still good for 1v1’s, for example. It might not be viable in team fights and so, but but being melodramatic and childish is stupid.

TyPin.9860:

Laraley.7695:

I’m more wondering why people hasn’t been complaining about mesmers that can stack up to 40 seconds of stealth, lol.

My Mesmer can stack up to 58s of stealth. In WvW roaming it is disgustingly amazing (from Mesmer PoV). In PvP though, having 58s chain stealth isn’t really going to help me…

However, most Mesmers I know are way more exited about Lock Down and Support options for Mesmer atm. There are already some ppl trying to do both in one build. Atm. while I think PU will be some way adapted in the future, I do not think it really is a big issue atm.

You really don’t think having 58 seconds of stealth is an issue? While it might not help you in pvp, it’s definitely broken. Mesmers have so much access to stealth with investing very little. This opens up a potential for chain stealth burts and there is no counterplay to that.

Extreme.8350:

Laraley.7695:

Extreme.8350:

So how long did it take for u to figure out the game is unbalanced?
how many builds did u try

Apart from the fact there are some really broken stuff (pu for example), I don’t think it’s a rocket science to figure out the damage that can be dealt is in complete inbalance to hp and armour pools. I’m not saying that the game is broken, but it will definitely need some balance.

Thats what i love about it that u cant just facetank
all heavy attacks in pvp and expect to win
fighting somone and down them only for them to get ressed by 2 teammates
in the last second is some of the most infuriating about pvp now its not that simple

Yeah, it’s great everything dies in 1 second, lol.

Extreme.8350:

So how long did it take for u to figure out the game is unbalanced?
how many builds did u try

Apart from the fact there are some really broken stuff (pu for example), I don’t think it’s a rocket science to figure out the damage that can be dealt is in complete inbalance to hp and armour pools. I’m not saying that the game is broken, but it will definitely need some balance.

I was trying Marauder on fresh air, but I just felt like the damage wasn’t good enough and your defences were way too low for all the power creep around.

I’m still gonna use cele for d/d and hoelbrak runes (condition damage hits harder now). Might is still good, you’ll get some nice damage on burning.

I’m more wondering why people hasn’t been complaining about mesmers that can stack up to 40 seconds of stealth, lol.

Scapper.4236:

It’s a change, it will balance, but last patch was not viable in my opinion as one whole profession was being left out from the meta game and it was just becoming boring. Don’t hate the changes, find a way to beat them as best you can and at the end of the day you have achieved something. Goodluck and see you in theory crafting.

Yes, it will balance ofc.

In a year with another huge patch.

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

What could sword give ele? Oh, I don’t know. How about a viable burst spec.

Honey, you don’t even know if you’re getting warhorn, so stop telling people what to/not to use. I really doubt it will be warhorn, for the sake of the class.

Mesmer is balanced about having low sustained damage? Yes, sure.

And you don’t even know if you’re getting sword. At this point the evidence from datmines pointing to each weapon is at least equal.

Have you played mesmer, ever, in a dungeon? It has the worst sustained DPS in the game. Its alleviated by speccing into phantasms that are easily destroyed by any non faceroll boss in pve, and several that are faceroll.

The GS has horrible autoattack damage. Most of the the actual damage it does is from fire/air procs. The skills that mesmer relies on to actually do damage are considered to be burst, because you have to sync them up to be effective. Elementalist lightning whip is good sustained damage, while skills like burning speed are considered burst, but aren’t the crux of your damage source like mind wrack, mirror blade, mind stab, and izerker are.

You don’t understand the difference between sustained and burst damage if you think mesmer has high sustained damage, because its literally all burst in pvp.

AND like I said, if sword had a viable burst spec it would most likely be viable due to new traits and utilities, not the weapon per se. For all we know a scepter air/water/tempest build could be the best burst build in the game. It probably won’t be, but considering the weapon has the best theoretical burst damage in the game, I wouldn’t put it past the point of impossibility.

You’re comparing mesmer damage in pve and fresh air in pvp? faceplam

Yes, mesmer damage comes mainly from procs, but compare gs and sword. GS hits way harder and it’s still more sustained damage than fresh air that will hit a few hundreds per tick in air.

Fresh air is not going to be viable since it has way less damage than mesmers and thieves. Its damage is actually similar to what it was pre patch.

Yeah, I’ve seen it happening. I’m not sure if they fixed it or not, but it’s definitely not on your side.

jportell.2197:

My big issue is they still haven’t put in a proper tutorial for kittens joining pvp.

“HEY GUYS LETS ALLL GO LORD AT START!”

Doesn’t the lord drop in 2 seconds now though with all this power creep?

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

Its a ranged burst weapon. Its not trash, it fulfills that role very well. As to whether burst ele is even viable at varying levels of play, thats another story, but the weapon does fulfill that role. Most of the reasons that scepter fresh air isn’t viable at high levels are due to relatively poor damage mitigation, mobility, disengage, team fight utility compared to a mesmer, thief, or medi guard, and none of those are the scepter’s fault because the damage is totally there.

Similarly the mesmer scepter isn’t trash either, its a great weapon for condition or even phantasm builds. Likewise, those condition builds aren’t viable at high levels of play, but thats not because the weapon is trash.

Let me rephrase it:
Scepter is trash.

It’s not a good weapon, it depends on one trait way too much. It plays some role in condi builds, but those are not viable either. Most of the AA’s are just so bad it makes me cry, many useless skills. The only role it fullfils is the fact it’s ranged, that’s it. If it wasn’t for fresh air, no one would pick up the weapon for burst ele.

Ele desperately needs another mainhand weapon, that would be burst and help with mobility and disengage (teleports, we), not some kitten warhorn that will give kids something to play with for 10 minutes.

The devs want to use the new weapons to give the existing classes new options on a playstyle that they lacked, as I explained by looking at the known elite spec weapons. Scepter is burst. Would a sword really be able to give a viable burst build that didn’t fall into the same problems as scepter? That would honestly depend more on changes to utilities and class mechanics than the weapon skills. The warhorn may have potential to open up uplaystyles that aren’t burst or pure cele sustain. It could be a condition weapon for all we know. It probably won’t be, but still, since dedicated condi builds were probably the thing that ele lacked the most, a condition based weapon is a likely possibility, and even sword could have been that.

And ele doesn’t desperately need a new mainhand. The necro desperately need cleave, it got cleave in the GS/RS, the guardian needed long range, it got that, and the mesmer needed more utility in zergplay, and the shield does that for them. The scepter is fine for what it does. Do you think mesmer GS auto is some OP attack that you can just spam without using the actual burst damage skills? The point of most ranged burst builds is high burst damage but low sustained damage, which is how mesmer, and fresh air ele are balanced. If scepter’s autos were “good” then the weapon would be too strong. Power ranger sorta breaks that rule, but they have so many other issues I see no problem with this.

Any sword based burst spec would have to be overwhelmingly similar to medi guard or thief to be viable, unelss they went completely outside the box with it, and I don’t think the devs want to make the new spec weapons overly similar to existing builds on other classes.

And to all of you upset on this thread: If you don’t want to use it, don’t. You’re not forced to use the new weapon with the elite spec, its just a new option if you want it. Across all classes, many builds will use the elite spec traitline with existing weapons, because theres far more to the elite spec than the new weapon.

What could sword give ele? Oh, I don’t know. How about a viable burst spec.

Honey, you don’t even know if you’re getting warhorn, so stop telling people what to/not to use. I really doubt it will be warhorn, for the sake of the class.

Mesmer is balanced about having low sustained damage? Yes, sure.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Laraley.7695:

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

Mostly ditto for mesmers too.

Mesmers had 2 main hand weapons, 2 two hand weapons, and 4 (pistol, sword, torch, focus) off hand weapons and they got another off hand weapon.

Still they said that classes getting only an off hand would be compensated in some way. Chronomancer are compensated by insane versatility of the new F5 and other nice mechanics (much more interesting than dragon hunter and reaper even with much fewer skill).

Ele can hope for something more unique because of this. Still even an off hand is a lot of skills on ele.

Yeah, I agree. Although sword on mesmer is really good. I guess it would be beneficial for the diversity of the game to add some mainhand weapon, but what can you do. But hey sword is good on mesmer, thief, warrior…so I’m hoping for a sword and if not sword, possibly another mainhand weapon. I just don’t want any offhands.

Yep, I tried some d/d rotations on golems and was getting up over 1K damage per tick on cele. You used to do around half of that damage, I do not want to see how much condi builds can actually do. The power creep is insane, it’s not only burning, it’s everything. All skills hit insanely hard and we do not have enough defences.

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

Its a ranged burst weapon. Its not trash, it fulfills that role very well. As to whether burst ele is even viable at varying levels of play, thats another story, but the weapon does fulfill that role. Most of the reasons that scepter fresh air isn’t viable at high levels are due to relatively poor damage mitigation, mobility, disengage, team fight utility compared to a mesmer, thief, or medi guard, and none of those are the scepter’s fault because the damage is totally there.

Similarly the mesmer scepter isn’t trash either, its a great weapon for condition or even phantasm builds. Likewise, those condition builds aren’t viable at high levels of play, but thats not because the weapon is trash.

Let me rephrase it:
Scepter is trash.

It’s not a good weapon, it depends on one trait way too much. It plays some role in condi builds, but those are not viable either. Most of the AA’s are just so bad it makes me cry, many useless skills. The only role it fullfils is the fact it’s ranged, that’s it. If it wasn’t for fresh air, no one would pick up the weapon for burst ele.

Ele desperately needs another mainhand weapon, that would be burst and help with mobility and disengage (teleports, we), not some kitten warhorn that will give kids something to play with for 10 minutes.

Think there will be a lot of testing, I might actually drop fresh air because the damage is lackluster and play with cele d/d or eventually d/f which will be a bit more damage oriented. I only had little time to try it out, but I went for Arcana (Renewing Stamina, E. Con., Evasive Arcana), Water (Soothing Ice, A. Training actually instead of Soothing Disruption and Cleansing water) and Air (One with air – because I love the trait, Tempest Defense/A. training and either BttH or LR, but I prefer BttH).
Think it will take a bit time to figure out what synergizes the best, though. Just try things out and see what works for you the best.

Aeromancer’s training is insane – RTL will decrease in cd to 27/14 sec.

I was gonna try fire, but the traits feel quite lackluster. Earth is just completely meh, so Air won it for me.

I’m not sure about runes, yet. But for sigils I’ll go battle and drop Doom for Energy, so I can keep stacking might.

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

nearlight.3064:

Oh yes!!! I WOULD LOVE Ele to get Warhorn! Much better than a kitten y sword.

Granted I’m biased because I have the legendary warhorn howler, and I’ve been kinda kittened for a while that necromancer is a horrible class, so I’ll finally have another class to use warhorn with!

You guys need to stop being so negative and realize how happy this could make me!

So it’s good because it makes you happy no matter how it’s bad for the class? How about the people that would be unhappy about getting a warhorn? Should those be happy because you’ll be able to use your legendary? How about the people who got bolt so they could use it on ele?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Laraley.7695:

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

Yes, with a tanky Power build that used 5g’s condition damage due to transfers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Suicide-build-and-upcoming-buffs/first#post5196253

That should explain why Necros have been bitter the last few days. Condition Necro is so terrible, it can actually 1v1 itself and win quickly.

He was using cele build, power build and I believe condi build at some point, too. Yes, you can get all the corruption and kill yourself, we figured. But you can also trasnfer the conditions or not use all corruption skills at the same time, which would never happen in a real fight anyway. Cry more.

Morwath.9817:

Laraley.7695:

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

Wrecking Engis never was any achievement for Necro, if your build could apply enough condis.

Never said it was, but it’s definitely not as bad as all the necros make it seem to be.

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

I don’t know… can you name one other Necromancer?

Yep.

But I get it now. Some people just want to cry, go on.

People please learn to read, it’s not that difficult.

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

God please no.

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Burning precision on 5 sec ICD is so weak :/

I can only pick traits in Air and sort of Arcana, then I’m lost, I honestly don’t know what to pick since it feels like taking something that’s less worse than something else.

Laraley.7695:

Wolfric.9380:

This is what i see to. Water and cantrips for PvP and WvW or wie die in seconds …. ele ist not unplayable bad, but the options for using glyphs, conjured weapons or spec without water look bad. In PvE you can do it but this game is centered more on payers to battle each other then PvE.

I disagree, with Marauder you’ll have 17K hp and will still be doing decent damage.

I might take that back, with Marauder, the damage is a bit meh, maybe a little lower than pre patch. Obviously I haven’t figured out what traits to take, but in many traitlines I just don’t know because everything is bad. And still don’t understand the 5 sec ICD on burning precision.

Mrbig.8019:

Kageseigi.2150:

Gabriell.4856:

How do you know thief doesn’t desires vamp runes? Because you say so?

No, I’m saying that no thief wants to get so low on health that the invulnerability procs. Neither do they want to lose ALL abilities except running away. It’s like an airbag in your car. It CAN save your bacon, but nobody wants it to be necessary. Thieves take it because they know that they’re so squishy, they’ll probably need it… even with stealth.

Gabriell.4856:

It is highly desireable because the vamp rune proc will interrupt any skill so when last refuge proc it prevent unintended reveal.

I don’t use Vamp runes, but according to recent patch notes, Last Refuge isn’t supposed to proc with them. Whether or not it does, I do not know.

Gabriell.4856:

How do you counter invul, stealth, and cleanse? You just can’t.

Remember, a thief can’t do anything while in Mist Form either… just try to run far enough away to escape oncoming doom. It procs without a moment’s notice. It is involuntary. Purely defensive and passive. It’s not as though a thief can see a powerful attack coming and go invulnerable. Other professions can.

Stealth is what allows thieves to survive. If used wisely, it can do so very well. But stealth is still only concealment, it isn’t cover… at least, not until tomorrow. Then it’s partial cover for Shadow Arts users.

Rofl thief is not squishy at all, it’s the most forgiving class in the meta right now and will be even more after patch.

What discerns a bad thief from a good thief is the capability to apply pressure or not, surely not the survivability.

A good thief can LITERALLY never die even when focused by 3 people.

Can I have some of the what you smoke? Seems to be some crazy stuff.

DirtyDan.4759:

roamzero.9486:

DF or DD 00666 full cantrips seems like it will be a staple roaming build. Rock solid + Diamondskin + CD-reduced Ether Renewal and you’ll be facerolling any and all condi specs, while still being decent at handling everything else.

Ether Renewel’s cd is 18s now. With 20% less cd it’s back to 15s. The master trait on water giving vigor and regeneration also applies on it

And it takes one thief to completely deny any heal.
Mesmer and necro can do that, too. Gl playing with ER.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

What’s with everyone complaining about loosing stats from traits, you’ll get them back with higher baseline stats and increased gear stats.

Currently, if you play zerker gear + traits with defensive stats, you are technically not pure zerker so there is no point to compare this to full zerker post patch. You can switch few gear pieces and have very similar stats to as now (wvw/pve). In pvp it will depend on the amulet choices (didn’t watch streams so don’t know about those).

The baseline is only increased by like 80, lol. The issue people are complainig about is the fact you cannot take an amulet without vitality due to losing the hp from Berserker amulet and eventually water line.

Wolfric.9380:

This is what i see to. Water and cantrips for PvP and WvW or wie die in seconds …. ele ist not unplayable bad, but the options for using glyphs, conjured weapons or spec without water look bad. In PvE you can do it but this game is centered more on payers to battle each other then PvE.

I disagree, with Marauder you’ll have 17K hp and will still be doing decent damage.

apharma.3741:

I think the problem was not that vigor was too strong but that access to it was too widespread. I mean a lot of teams have a warrior, if you’re near them when they war horn 5 that’s vigor for 5 allies for 10s and on a 16s cool down if traited. Ele and thief need vigorous the most, they have low base health and rely on dodging, hence why they needed high uptime. Other classes not so much as they had invuln, block, teleport or excessive movement speed to compensate.

Still I think now is the time to perhaps revise some of our utilities and see if a cool down shave is appropriate if vigor is being reduced. I’m sure even Mik would agree to that =)

Haha, I said several times I’d be fine with the nerf if they actually did something about ele survability in general.

You think all the new builds will be figured out an hour after patch? I doubt that, lol.

Imho you won’t miss the vitality from water. I was normally using either 26006 or 06026 and it’s not such a difference, but you probably won’t be able to use zerker effectively in spvp anymore. I don’t think Marauder is such a bad choice, though. I don’t understand why there’s so much prec but so little ferocity, but it’s how it is.

Valento.9852:

Sigil of Energy will be mandatory I guess.

Which is just great since it leaves you with only one optional sigil.

punahou.3986:

Jekkt.6045:

condi ele was never viable and won’t be.. what condi ele was is a cheesy 1v1 spec that doesn’t help your team at all. d/d isn’t the strongest 1v1 spec in the game but the best in terms of support, cc and damage, that’s why it’s meta.

Meta?

Is Meta the official ANET stance on builds and classes?

I thought so. If something ISNT SANCTIONED BY THE DEVS, and APPROVED BY DEVS

then its not part of the game.

The META is purely speculation from NON SUPPORTED and NON VERIFIAZBLE 3rd party sources.

I can guarantee you that non player fluff META builds do not perform worlds better than non META builds.

Its the players that control the character not the other way around.

Meta isn’t created by devs directly, but honestly don’t you think if some build was so good, more people would play it? I usually destroy condi eles on fresh air, it’s not even a difficult match up. Builds are in meta because they’re good, not because someone else said so. I’m sorry but condi ele is just not viable and I’m afraid, it will stay that way. Not to mention it brings very little to the team and that’s why d/d ele is the spec that’s in meta.

It is supposed to hit you 6 times if played correctly.

From your log Phoenix hit you 7459 in total, which is a normal number of backstab on a squishy class. Is that utterly broken, too? I’m not saying it doesn’t hit hard but landing Phoenix is not always easy and it’s the only high damage skill scepter has. Dragon’s tooth is good, but you will never land it.

ArthurDent.9538:

Laraley.7695:

Quadox.7834:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.

Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.

So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.

Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.

No more icd on fresh air that is your buff…

That doesn’t help with survability and it’s not even good, it’s just a bad and stupid buff.

Quadox.7834:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.

Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.

So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.

Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.

Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.

So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…

Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.

It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…

That’s why barely anyone runs this build?

PlatinumMember.5274:

Jekkt.6045:

i’d rather have the mesmer/necro guy tbh

Well the Robert kinda screwed over the necro with consumed conditions, but in any case still better than karl.

He super nerfs us, then reduces some of the nerfs and people call it a “buff”.

He’s got some good marketing skills, I have to say that.

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.

Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.

So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…

Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.

xDudisx.5914:

Laraley.7695:

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.

Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.

Jekkt.6045:

why do you have to camp it. even in your normal rotation it will reduce the damage by a lot while you rotate through the earth skills and it can act as a failsafe, you should obviously not put your main focus on camping earth but to normally do your rotation and use it when it’s needed/availlable. stone heart is after all not the only reason why i want to take the earth line but also the 10% reduction minor and the lower cooldown on earth skills.

Because protection would be much better otherwise?