Guild Wars 2

Jekkt.6045:

it’s not if you use it at the right moment, your invul won’t be up all the time.

But you only have two choices. Switch to earth, use OF, switch out.
Switch to earth and take reduced damage in earth.

So you either will have to not take Stone Heart or you’ll have to camp earth.

Jekkt.6045:

that’s kinda true. seems like a trade off. but then again i wouldnt chill in earth anyway, i would use obsidian flesh that is on a 40s cd with the master, switch to water to heal and use the healing signet if i need it.

there will be a lot to test on the 23rd.. not only on ele.. will definitely be busy for a while^^

But then Stone Heart is useless…

Jekkt.6045:

Laraley.7695:

Jekkt.6045:

you lose earth if you go arcana and the earth traits are just better in every way. you get stone heart + the protection from auras (that makes a bit up for elemental attunement) but the gm minor and stone heart is what makes it so powerful. while elemental attunement is good to negate bursts with earth stone heart is just on a higher level. 33% damage reduction from prot vs 50-100% crit damage that is not applied + the on crit procs.

Well, I can’t agree with it. I don’t think having to stay in earth to negate damage will work with fresh air. I’m not a fan of Stone heart because of the gameplay it brings. It could possibly work somehow for dd ele, but I don’t see the point in building a tanky fresh air spec that will be forced to camp earth when you get under pressure.

that’s basically what you should already be doing on fresh air now. when you are about to get bursted you switch into earth to negate all the damage you recieve and if you can you use obsidian flesh so you can escape and switch to other attunements without getting any further damage.

that’s how it works for every ele build that uses elemental attunement and to a lesser degree for builds that use elemental shielding with popping auras.

You can switch to earth but you’re not forced to camp earth to negate damage. With stone heart you’ll be losing a lot damage potential.

Sigmoid.7082:

ArthurDent.9538:

Sigmoid.7082:

Xillllix.3485:

It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.

Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.

It really is an extremely large difference, you may look at your numbers and say 1.7 seconds difference isn’t a lot but I would say a more accurate way of viewing it is that your dodge cooldown has been increased by 33% which is massive. If you don’t think that is a big difference, how about we just increase the cooldown of all your skills by 33% since you know no big deal.

Dodges were never meant to be spammed, it was to strong and made a load of trait useless, its better balanced now. The cooldown on dodges is meant to be 10s. With the change it actually doesnt have a huge impact and again its balanced to fit around traits and evasive play if you specc for it and how weakness works.

If they changes weakness to -100% endurance regen people would be more annoyed. This way is a lot better for a balance standpoint.

The problem is I don’t think it’s balanced. If they build a class around having vigor and then just nerf it without giving the class anything else to compensate, how is that balance? I don’t see ANet nerfing base hp pools or armour and I’m pretty sure if they did, people would be unhappy. Just because one class has different survival mechanics, it doesn’t mean it’s okay to take it away.

Maybe go look at builds on metabattle. I don’t think ele is the best choice for condition build, but if you really want to play that, suit yourself. You might also maybe wait after the patch, things could change a bit.

Jekkt.6045:

you lose earth if you go arcana and the earth traits are just better in every way. you get stone heart + the protection from auras (that makes a bit up for elemental attunement) but the gm minor and stone heart is what makes it so powerful. while elemental attunement is good to negate bursts with earth stone heart is just on a higher level. 33% damage reduction from prot vs 50-100% crit damage that is not applied + the on crit procs.

Well, I can’t agree with it. I don’t think having to stay in earth to negate damage will work with fresh air. I’m not a fan of Stone heart because of the gameplay it brings. It could possibly work somehow for dd ele, but I don’t see the point in building a tanky fresh air spec that will be forced to camp earth when you get under pressure.

Sigmoid.7082:

Laraley.7695:

Sigmoid.7082:

Xillllix.3485:

It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.

Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.

1. Ele needs to spend dodges on Evasive Arcana from time to time.
2. Try to play fresh air.

1. Dodges should be something that you spam
2. I do.

Even with perma vigor you cannot spam dodges. The mechanics of elemental attunement forced you to dodge to do other things, not only avoid damage, you should know that if you play ele. And you should also know that fresh air does depend on the vigor a lot.

Sigmoid.7082:

Xillllix.3485:

It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.

Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.

1. Ele needs to spend dodges on Evasive Arcana from time to time.
2. Try to play fresh air.

Jekkt.6045:

every reduction in a normal fight is great and for big bursts you switch to earth to negate everything. basically the same way as you do now with attunement protection but better.

Okay, I don’t follow. How is 3 sec of protection on 20 and 25 sec cd’s better than 5 sec of protection on 9 sec cd? You have to invest so much into the auras and you don’t really get that much. The aura itself are obviously powerful but fresh air might as well go air, water and arcana.

Jekkt.6045:

vigour is 1 dodge every 7.5s while normal regen + energy is still 2/10s so i will drop renewing stamina. contingency is meh for fresh air and evasive is not good enough to justify dropping earth or water.

water giving you the needed cleanse and heal while earth gives you prot for soothing ice, tempest defense and fire5. reduced earth skills means 20s condi cleanse and 40s invul instead of 50.

fresh air didn’t go into fire so with the 30% stat increase of amulets you get a natural +~300 power which will make up for air training.

@jski
pure burst builds are always trash because a dead dps deals no damage at all.

With Soothing Ice you’ll get protection only every 20 second and it will be more random, unless you take other auras. Otherwise it’s just a waste of trait slot. And even if you did take Tempest defense, having 3 sec of prot on 20 and 25 sec cd doesn’t seem too good.

Jekkt.6045:

Jski.6180:

Ppl are saying 3 fire 3 air 3 ar for s/d or s/f for an all in burst dmg build.

congratulations, you have a build with no survivability and condi cleanse.

the fire line is lackluster and arcane not worth it anymore for the following reason: with the reduced vigour you absolutely can’t afford to waste dodges for evasive arcana.

what i will be testing is air earth water with vamp runes and air/energy sigils. water could be switched to fire for cleansing fire and blinding ashes but i am not sure of it’s worth it.

I disagree. Arcana is still worth it and ele will need the vigor more than ever, you’ll just need to be more careful about your dodges.

xDudisx.5914:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks

This ^.

The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.

That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?

Grimreaper.5370:

oZii.2864:

I see some people saying ele is going to be OP etc.(I disagree) most likely with the D/D Ele in mind. Looking at the changes and watching the videos I haven’t seen much mentioned about condition duration and boon duration.

The popular D/D build will probably end up like ?/?/?/6/6 depending on what you like. Since stats are being removed from trait lines and condition duration and boon duration are considered stats then that means less boon uptime. 6 arcana gives you +30% now post patch you would have +0% if you take the trait(can’t remember it’s name) you can get +10% I don’t suspect many D/D ele’s will take that trait.

I think 6 Arcana ele’s will gravitate toward elemental attunement, renewing stamina, evasive Arcana, but you won’t have as much boon uptime anymore. Runes would get +30-40% depending on rune type.

I am just coming back to the game after a year away so maybe I missed a discussion on it.

I don’t foresee them putting condition duration or boon duration on armor, weapons, or trinkets.

Elemental attunement is becoming a minor brah, you can stack renewing stamina, elemental contingency and Evasive Arcana. We’re gonna have even more boons with the d/d meta >.>

It’s not that much more. Vigor from water will be overwritted, protection is only 2 1/2 sec, fury might be a bit useful and completely useless retal. I hope I will be able not to slot anything in Master Arcana to make a point how useless the traits are.

Sylent.3165:

olTThreelo.6710:

This thread is so corny it made me cringe. But I’m glad you are happy, you are in the minority I think however.

Lol. You know the majority of the players are just logged into the game and not on the forms right?

I don’t think thread with over 4K replies and counting shows that it’s just a minority unhappy. I am, too and I do not like the treatment and I was supporting the game till now. I was sure I was gonna buy the xpack, but now? I dunno if it’s even worth it.

Kodama.6453:

I’m sorry to read that, but maybe show me where I am wrong? For the invuln fact I didn’t read anything about a class which has more access to it (invuln, not evade). So someone please show me where I am wrong? I just want to understand and don’t bother you anymore.

Okay, if you take earth shield in pvp, you’re either going to be locked out of your weapon skills that are crucial for you or you’re going to be wasting long cooldowns for an invuln that will do nothing for you only prolong the time you’re alive. But it’s not going to be by a lot. You can’t do any pressure with the shield.

Same with mistform, you cannot use your weapon skills not utilities, which is basically making you live longer for a bit, eventually escape, however you can be immobilized before the mistform anyway.

So no pressure for something that has insanely long cooldowns. Now go and compare it to distortion, please. It’s not about how much access you have to certain utilities, but how good they are. I would exchange all of these for distortion. Obsidian flesh is by far the best one, but that makes ele locked into focus, which kinda sucks. If you’re fresh air, you just cannot take dagger offhand if you’re facing players with at least half brain.

It’s not all bad, at least we can dodge right and use our active defense right…oh wait. The reason why vigor is so important for ele is the simple fact it’s very squishy and it needs to spend some dodges on evasive arcana.

Kodama.6453:

I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.

OH WOW, YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD? MAN, I’M AMAZED.

You’re making me bang my head into a wall, seriously. Please if you don’t understand the class, don’t act like what you say is right. It’s really not. Ele with the utilities you listed is basically as useless as having only 4 people.

Kodama.6453:

Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds I know that, that’s why I said 10s invuln (3s from mist form, 3 from earth shield and 4 from OF).

Cele gear is natural synergy with elementalist, which can do all things with one build (heal with water, condi with earth, direct damage with fire and crit/cc with air) and I fought against many elementalists literally perma-evading and found some builds in the internet which show the drastically stamina regen an elementalist can provide. ^^

And I just wanted to show elementalist has access to other defensive skills so vigor nerf will not hurt you that much as you think maybe.

And I’m telling you that no one uses the skills you actually stated, so 4 sec od invuln.

Oh, have you thought about…Idk, maybe not everyone wants to play cele? Yes, vigor nerf will hurt ele a lot, since fresh air will be left with one 50 sec cd and one 70 sec cd, it needs the dodges also to work with Evasive Arcana. No, ele cannot perma evade. You seriously have no clue if you list freaking earth shield here.

Kodama.6453:

Elementalist is able to have 10s of invuln (earth focus 5, earth shield 5, mist form) and each weapon set does have at least 1 evade spell and some on conjured weapons.

First of all, Obsidian Flesh is 4 second, second of all no one freaking uses earth shield because it’s crap and third of all, you cannot do anything while in mistform. Then go look up distortion please.

Kodama.6453:

Maybe this way elementalists will not be able to dodge every single attack of their opponent using dodge roll and their insane evade skills. Elementalists have most access to invuln and lots of evade skills. You will be fine.

You’re kidding right? Insane evade skills? Most invuln? Since when?

Avead.5760:

In beta you dodged and if i remember correctly a shockwave was unleashed at the direction you are facing at that time although sometimes it felt a bit weird at aiming.Pretty epic though!
Btw at that time the air spell was updraft and of course everything was a blast finisher in any attunement even if the spell was on cd .You can imagine the cc lock.. too bad no one knew how to play back then

Haha, that sounds awesome, makes me feel sad I didn’t play during beta.

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Enjoy I guess. Assaulting everyone just because they misuderstood or play a class is definitely the way to go.

Also, it’s funny you exactly complain about this but do it yourself.

I don’t harass people in game. If I tell my team at the beginning of the match that I’ll grab home and I have 2 idiots follow me there I will tell them to please go mid, if they don’t I will leave the point to go mid myself. I’m not going to waste time in a PvP match arguing with people in chat.

If some jerk pops up on a forum talking about something he had no part of then I have no problem arguing. I had teammates that couldn’t 4v3, that right there is all the information you needed to know about the match. Somehow from that info you decided the players that couldn’t kill opponents they outnumber, while I kept 2-3 busy the rest of the match, must have been right. It was all my fault for not running back and probably turning it into a 5v5 for home that we would likely still have lost since my teammates kept dying so fast. At best we would slowly win it but whoever we killed first would have just taken back far and had us trip capped again.

What exactly would you have done in that situation?

What would I do if I knew my teammates wouldn’t be able to win a teamfight? Well, I would probably go help them if you ask me.

Nice calling me jerk just because I misunderstood something.

All I said is that if people blame you and there is more than one of them, you could probably consider if you couldn’t do something better. But obviously you’re too self absorbed to even think about that.

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.

If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.

Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.

Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.

“I’ve only had this happen once”

Reading is hard huh?

Puck.9612:

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had.

This is what I was coming from.

Are you really going to try and cut 1 line out of my post to misrepresent what I said? Do you work for Fox news or something?

The “1 or 2 people like this” was referring to the players that run around fighting off point or zerging uncontested points.

Well, then I misunderstood, but man your attitude…You must be pleasant to be around.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you

Enjoy I guess. Assaulting everyone just because they misuderstood or play a class is definitely the way to go.

Also, it’s funny you exactly complain about this but do it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.

If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.

Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.

Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.

“I’ve only had this happen once”

Reading is hard huh?

Puck.9612:

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had.

This is what I was coming from.

Are you really going to try and cut 1 line out of my post to misrepresent what I said? Do you work for Fox news or something?

The “1 or 2 people like this” was referring to the players that run around fighting off point or zerging uncontested points.

Well, then I misunderstood, but man your attitude…You must be pleasant to be around.

Kagamiku.9731:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.

If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.

Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.

Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.

“I’ve only had this happen once”

Reading is hard huh?

Puck.9612:

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had.

This is what I was coming from.

It is common when you solo que and you’re paired with 4 team premade. They’ll refuse to blame themselves for the loss, so will target you instead. Between group mentality and that they all know each other, they’re going to fault the outsider, whether it was hit fault or not.

It’s probably what happened to him.

I get that, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen ever, but I can’t say I’ve had plenty of game like this.

Drennon.7190:

I like this idea. It opens up more counter play to stealth AND reveal.

Would it? When you could just simply cleanse it?

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.

If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.

Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.

Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.

“I’ve only had this happen once”

Reading is hard huh?

Puck.9612:

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had.

This is what I was coming from.

I think I agree, especially since we can only have 2 sigils on our weapons. I really hope Sigil of Energy won’t become mandatory, because that would hurt the build diversity even more. I can’t say I’m happy about this, 50% is quite a lot when they are doing nothing about sigils like Air, Fire, Geo, Doom…

Avead.5760:

i think the shock wave when its churning earth is a thing for a very long time.
Just a description error.Btw i wish it becomes shockwave even without the blast..
It used to be like that in beta and it would be just amazing in every possible way

Oh yeah, I just checked it in game, never noticed that. So how did it work in beta?

ronpierce.2760:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z;9;9;9;0j;48V

Intothemists Calculator also says shockwave.

Wiki states live as churning earth. Fairly big change if it’s actually changed:

I really can’t imagine how that would work, though. I really hope it’s not going to be just to remove the blast from it when engis got blast on dodge.

Jekkt.6045:

“let the meta settle” nothing should be “fixed” or “nerfed” right off the start. all they have to do is fix bugs.

You do realize it will mostly end up the way we’ll have broken things in game for months till they realize do another big balance patch and mess everything up again?

1. Winrate doesn’t really reflect skill if you mostly soloq.
2. Matchmaking is not based on winrate, but rather MMR.

I believe they do realize matchmaking isn’t ideal but this will presist if premades and solo will be still forced to queue together and the population is still low. Obviously they could do things to make things better, but I feel like they went with the route of low queue times over higher quality matches.

I feel like many issues have not been addressed. Plenty of classes have skills that never get used. Or you have skills that are used but are seriously underpowered compared to other skills.

I really thought they would rework scepter on ele finally, the weapon is picked up only because of fresh air, but half of the skills are just so freaking bad.

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.

If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.

Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.

Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.

Conncept.7638:

Laraley.7695:

Sorry, but this is the stupidest post I’ve ever seen. How about you actually let everyone play the way they want? If you want to do some pve train in wvw, leave the people interrested in fighting other players alone.

Y’know what’s really stupid? When someone jumps in to the middle of a conversation and makes giant assumptions and leaps in logic totally ignoring everything that took place before they were paying attention.

I’ve never stated that people shouldn’t play WvW, play how you want, you are not required to satisfy other peoples needs to compete in order to play the game. I play plenty of non-meta builds in PvP that I admit, completely suck, but I play them knowing that and play them regardless because they are fun.

Nonetheless, I would never claim those builds are competitive. And if you had actually read the conversation before jumping in, you would know that the subject at hand was the claim that Ele condition builds are viable in WvW, my response to that, was that it didn’t matter whether they were viable, balanced, or even grossly overpowered, because no amount of balance is put in towards WvW roaming.

I should probably remind you that you’re here on the forums and if you don’t want to people to respond to something then…well, don’t post on forums.

What I was replying to was the ‘’I agree, because they take up slots which could be filled by players who actually do something that contributes to a victory for their server.’‘, which is still the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on forums. I don’t care what it’s about since there is no point to explain something to a person like you.

I think it could be just a mistake in the calculator? Or maybe they renamed it?

Grimreaper.5370:

Nutshel.7264:

This is direct ele stealth nerf :P The only squishy profession that desperately needs to dodge in order to stay alive – no build in survivability

Point is, some classes depend more on vigor/dodge then others and are hurt by this change more. Most likely anet did not take that into account and did not made any compensation to them.

I kind of does seem that way but I do think Anet “compensated” for it as well. More heal on EA dodge in spvp, cray cray blinding ashes blinds, potential 13 second shocking aura cd, 10% dmg reduction when in 360 range… I’d rather actively avoid attacks though opposed to randomly or passively soaking up damage dealt. I don’t feel as good about winning a fight when I’m just basically surviving off of traits I picked up which I have no control over….

I don’t think people are worried about the survability of d/d ele, but that might be the only viable build out there. Class survability shouldn’t have to be taken care of by taking specific traits, it exactly leads to the problem we have now. Ele is forced into taking traits to have some decent survability, but that totally shuts down any build diversity.

Puck.9612:

Laraley.7695:

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?

I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.

No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything right, but everyone on their team blamed them.

Puck.9612:

I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.

I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.

How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.

I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.

Conncept.7638:

Linnael.1069:

Conncept.7638:

Linnael.1069:

Conncept.7638:

Dahir.4158:

People have been using condi builds for ages. It’s nothing new.

Yeah, I’ve been one of them, earth spec’d Elementalist main since launch, regardless of that fact they are still some of the worst builds in the entire game.

Um. Dire signet ele running 6/0/6/0/2 is notorious in wvw roaming for being just as ridiculous as condithief/mes. earth has been good for a long time.

No one cares about WvW roaming. The game isn’t balanced around it to any degree, WvW is meant to be a simulation of war, it isn’t meant to be balanced or fair, its meant to reward every advantage one takes, especially numbers. Meaning the efforts of one person make absolutely no difference anyway, and no matter how much WvW roamers claim otherwise, except for reporting enemy movements, roaming has no effect on the game modes win condition and therefor isn’t a problem no matter the build.

Bad roamers are the number one reason why a server population declines over time. Crap roamers means a crap experience for new players when they keep getting poached off the tail by the other servers.

I don’t give a kitten whether its balanced for or not. He said it wasn’t good, it was good.

I agree, because they take up slots which could be filled by players who actually do something that contributes to a victory for their server.

And its not good, if it doesn’t contribute to a win. Remember back when there were stealth builds that could twoshot near anyone on the map without granting them any ability to respond. Yet you never saw those builds in PvP, why? Because the stealth buff makes it so they cannot contribute to the win condition, and therefore the builds were ‘bad’, worthless even, regardless of any other factor.

Sorry, but this is the stupidest post I’ve ever seen. How about you actually let everyone play the way they want? If you want to do some pve train in wvw, leave the people interrested in fighting other players alone.

Penguin.7906:

DaShi.1368:

More premades….

And this is a bad thing?

It is bad news for soloquers.

Mrbig.8019:

Exedore.6320:

I’m all for toning down or removing the prominence of sigil procs. However, it wouldn’t really address the issues with the trait overhaul. Ridiculous proc traits like Incendiary Powder and Chill of Death still exist, largely unchanged from the old system.

Without air/fire, chill of death would never instakill people.

without geo-doom, ip is just a very strong trait u can counter with cleanses.

Those traits have been there for ages and nobody really complained that much.

sigils and runes on the other side…

That doesn’t matter, it still hits too hard for an instant proc without any tell. Not having air and fire would help, but the damage should seriously be toned down.

I wouldn’t mind having sigils, but I would probably want runes as long as procs would get removed.

It wouldn’t be hard to remove the procs that are class specific either.

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Quadox.7834:

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

You mean meta Panic Strike thief? You’re comparing a whole prof to a spec that uses RNG and procs and thief will be call faceroll/cheese/OP no matter what.

Yes PS of course. It is a very user friendly easy spec in terms of mechanics and requires low play time for most.

That said, you can’t really call a whole class face roll. There are face roll builds on any class.

Celestial Rifle isn’t all Engineer is, and I doubt anyone would say other specs beside this one pose the most issues atm.

After the changes? I don’t know, but neither do any of you. Not even the Devs do (quite evidently). We’ll just have to wait and see.

If an engi loses to any thief they need to uninstall

Thief can win vs engi.

And mesmer can win against a thief. Should it happen? No.

Power Shatter is not all that mesmer can spec for.

Panic strike is not all thief can spec for? Your point? Everyone understood what I meant, are we playing with words now?

I’m just stating the belief that an entire class counters an entire class is false it’s all about specs but conquest limits them. PS thief got Last Refuge gutted, with sigils it’s trickier, Vamp Runes mist form doesn’t allow capping only thing left is mainly the RNG of Improvisation that’s to the devs to be creative. I kind of dislike how significant runes and sigils can become but I don’t think much balancing will happen to those soon.

And I believe it’s very clear what I meant.

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

I sort of doubt it. They are unsplitting evasive arcana. It’s already going to be very powerful. I’d imagine you will just have to be a bit more disciplined on your dodge rolls.

Can you tell me how it’s going to be very powerful?

In spvp the healing will double as it will no longer be cut in half (skill split). It’s already a fairly decent aoe heal and condition cleanse usable each water attunement, and that’s just the water one alone. Earth’s blast can be used to great effect too.

All in saying is, it’s already a great trait, it just doesn’t really need buffed. More specifically since they gave us back Ea/Ea

Aight, let me reword this.

How is this going to be very powerful when it’s a grandmaster trait on a class that’s very squishy and will be mandatory in many builds? When you say very powerful, I imagine traits that are a choice, not something I have to have to survive.

Well, it DOES that job, does it not? It’s fine as it is, you need it to survive but you have it. Making it more powerful doesn’t make it more of a choice, so you’re barking up the wrong tree. Sounds like if you want choice you should be concerned if the other GMs are up to par with EA.

I’m not saying it doesn’t, but it’s still not good. The skill itself maybe, but not the fact there’s no diversity at all when it comes to ele. Half of the new traits are plain bad, so bad you can’t even take them.

Hence why I said you should be more concerned of whether the other traits are on par with EA. how do you think buffing EA any amount would help diversity?

No, I think that acting like they did something good will only make them feel like they actually did.

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Quadox.7834:

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

You mean meta Panic Strike thief? You’re comparing a whole prof to a spec that uses RNG and procs and thief will be call faceroll/cheese/OP no matter what.

Yes PS of course. It is a very user friendly easy spec in terms of mechanics and requires low play time for most.

That said, you can’t really call a whole class face roll. There are face roll builds on any class.

Celestial Rifle isn’t all Engineer is, and I doubt anyone would say other specs beside this one pose the most issues atm.

After the changes? I don’t know, but neither do any of you. Not even the Devs do (quite evidently). We’ll just have to wait and see.

If an engi loses to any thief they need to uninstall

Thief can win vs engi.

And mesmer can win against a thief. Should it happen? No.

Power Shatter is not all that mesmer can spec for.

Panic strike is not all thief can spec for? Your point? Everyone understood what I meant, are we playing with words now?

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

I sort of doubt it. They are unsplitting evasive arcana. It’s already going to be very powerful. I’d imagine you will just have to be a bit more disciplined on your dodge rolls.

Can you tell me how it’s going to be very powerful?

In spvp the healing will double as it will no longer be cut in half (skill split). It’s already a fairly decent aoe heal and condition cleanse usable each water attunement, and that’s just the water one alone. Earth’s blast can be used to great effect too.

All in saying is, it’s already a great trait, it just doesn’t really need buffed. More specifically since they gave us back Ea/Ea

Aight, let me reword this.

How is this going to be very powerful when it’s a grandmaster trait on a class that’s very squishy and will be mandatory in many builds? When you say very powerful, I imagine traits that are a choice, not something I have to have to survive.

Well, it DOES that job, does it not? It’s fine as it is, you need it to survive but you have it. Making it more powerful doesn’t make it more of a choice, so you’re barking up the wrong tree. Sounds like if you want choice you should be concerned if the other GMs are up to par with EA.

I’m not saying it doesn’t, but it’s still not good. The skill itself maybe, but not the fact there’s no diversity at all when it comes to ele. Half of the new traits are plain bad, so bad you can’t even take them.

Quadox.7834:

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

You mean meta Panic Strike thief? You’re comparing a whole prof to a spec that uses RNG and procs and thief will be call faceroll/cheese/OP no matter what.

Yes PS of course. It is a very user friendly easy spec in terms of mechanics and requires low play time for most.

That said, you can’t really call a whole class face roll. There are face roll builds on any class.

Celestial Rifle isn’t all Engineer is, and I doubt anyone would say other specs beside this one pose the most issues atm.

After the changes? I don’t know, but neither do any of you. Not even the Devs do (quite evidently). We’ll just have to wait and see.

If an engi loses to any thief they need to uninstall

Thief can win vs engi.

And mesmer can win against a thief. Should it happen? No.

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

I sort of doubt it. They are unsplitting evasive arcana. It’s already going to be very powerful. I’d imagine you will just have to be a bit more disciplined on your dodge rolls.

Can you tell me how it’s going to be very powerful?

In spvp the healing will double as it will no longer be cut in half (skill split). It’s already a fairly decent aoe heal and condition cleanse usable each water attunement, and that’s just the water one alone. Earth’s blast can be used to great effect too.

All in saying is, it’s already a great trait, it just doesn’t really need buffed. More specifically since they gave us back Ea/Ea

Aight, let me reword this.

How is this going to be very powerful when it’s a grandmaster trait on a class that’s very squishy and will be mandatory in many builds? When you say very powerful, I imagine traits that are a choice, not something I have to have to survive.

Cecilia.5179:

Laraley.7695:

Cecilia.5179:

I would say that in spite of what eles lost, we got several significant additions. Eles can now comfortably run all the way into three traitlines. Most ele specs will probably be X/Water/Arcana. Choosing fire enables you to run what was once dhuumfire and blindspam, Air allows you to gain fury and damage boosts, and Earth allows you to tank and completely screw over condi builds.
There are a lot of new things we can do with our eles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.

Lol, first you say ‘’Most ele specs will probably be X/water/Arcana’’ and then you say ‘’ I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.‘’ You’re contradicting yourself a lot, lol.

Also, saying ele got a lot because we got a third line. Well, ALL classes got those.

Alright, I worded it wrong. Most ele specs will use X/Water/Arcana, initially. What gets slotted in each line will likely vary, what gear is used will vary, and what utilities are slotted will vary. There are more things than a couple of traits that make a spec. It would be wrong to say ele was nerfed. Ele has 5 traitlines that are all viable in their own way. Most importantly, ele definitely was not the worst off. Necromancer got hit in places where a third line doesn’t even begin to compensate for.

Lol, sure. That would have happened if elementalist wasn’t forced into traits and skills, so keep dreaming.

ronpierce.2760:

I sort of doubt it. They are unsplitting evasive arcana. It’s already going to be very powerful. I’d imagine you will just have to be a bit more disciplined on your dodge rolls.

Can you tell me how it’s going to be very powerful?

Cecilia.5179:

I would say that in spite of what eles lost, we got several significant additions. Eles can now comfortably run all the way into three traitlines. Most ele specs will probably be X/Water/Arcana. Choosing fire enables you to run what was once dhuumfire and blindspam, Air allows you to gain fury and damage boosts, and Earth allows you to tank and completely screw over condi builds.
There are a lot of new things we can do with our eles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.

Lol, first you say ‘’Most ele specs will probably be X/water/Arcana’’ and then you say ‘’ I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.‘’ You’re contradicting yourself a lot, lol.

Also, saying ele got a lot because we got a third line. Well, ALL classes got those.