Guild Wars 2

urieldhynne.2743:

Kanenas.4906:

This one teaches us how to kill someone by avoiding damage, good one too!

The amount of ignorance in this thread is to much high and makes me sick! I’m outta here.

I am glad to share the same sickness, i am sick of thief lovers defending a broken mechanic as well.

Basically you want to have the ability to reset every fight when you are about to die, to try again over and over until win it? That is you want? because that is what happen with the stealth in current state. That is fair for you?

Oh i forget, i must “l2p” to counter it. Are you reading this post about how easy is instant stealth stunbreak away when you are about to die and you rely in blind hits to “try to counter” a stealth mechanic. How funny sir.

Thief haters have tunnel vision. Let me give you a list of classes that can reset fights just as good as thief.

Warrior – Stability and then rush laughing ho ho ho all the way. Good luck immo or chill due to -98% condi duration
Mesmer – Stealth…more stealth then blink…oh and more stealth
Ele – LF then FSG
Ranger – Sword Evade back into keep or tower
Engi – Stealth and or Rocket Boots. Or blast finisher in smoke field for 5 secs of stealth.

So…whats the problem? The majority of classes can reset fights.

Buwahahahhahahhaa

So this is what it sounds like when Mesmer can no longer hide behind AI to wtfstomp other players.

Jitters.9401:

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

This is too funny. Remember. I use two and only two stealth abilities and I have yet to lose to a warrior. I have never lost to a ranger, but even the best ranger is almost guaranteed an easy kill for a thief who uses 1 stealth.

Back when I ran full zerk gear, my only stealth (withdraw made things more fun and hectic) in a fight was blinding powder. I killed them 100% of the time with just shadow shot and my crazy high crit%.

Really now…. Who should people believe. Thieves who use the stealth mechanic to the extreme and think it is fine to kill 3 people at a time, or a thief who refuses to abuse the system in order to make the fights as fair as possible and based upon skills only while winning 70% + of his 1v1 fights even when using only 1 stealth skill?

The only decent thieves are those who play with skill and not rely on cheap tactics. If stealth is changed then the good thieves will still play, but the cheap ones will move along to the next cheapest build.

A P/D thief that thinks he better than the rest of the thieves…

You do know P/D is a “cheese” weapon set? It’s almost as cheesy as D/P.

You probably think your kitten doesn’t smell.

You thieves are a bunch of idiots.

Look at Anet track record. They buffed S/D #3 only to make it kitten later.

The best thing you can ask for on the S/P is to keep it the same and no changes because once it become good, they will nerf it to the ground.

Walker.3056:

jan 10th patch? you mean dec? if so its after

Yes, I meant Dec 10.

If you look at the video around the 3:00-3:15, you will see that the footage was from pre Dec nerf.

Correct me if I’m wrong but this is pre Jan 10th patch right?

Scarlett.1549:

This 1 game type in PvP is not only getting old, it is HURTING the community. It hurts because it promotes 1 style of play… BUNKERING. It has been such a long time since game release and still there is only one type of game mode.

Please explain to me where the fun is coming up against a team full of bunkers. You either need to have just as many bunkers or need to co ordinate on a level which is impossible in single queue hot join.

Why are we deprived of the game types all the other PvP games have? Where is Death Match, Capture the Flag, Golden Gun, 2v2 3v3 4v4..

I’m not saying to ditch the node defending game type, keep it. If people like that, then let them all bunker together. But can the rest of us, who like to have something different, have other options.. please? Going from one game to another, just because of the lack of game types.. is getting old. Eventually, I won’t come back.

Why are we subjected to this Bunker or go home style of game play mentality ?

I don’t play Spvp very much but in my opinion, adding additional game mode such as 3v3 death match will ruin what little balance this game has left.

EVERYTHING in this game is balanced for 5v5 capture. You have SA thieves, PU/Phantasm Mesmer, etc being held back due to the current game mode. They will then have to balance these builds around 3v3 death match and 5v5 capture. It will be a nightmare for them.

aLovedhater.4096:

Mlrra – if there is a 1 second interval, like you said, you’re backstabbing, not auto attacking (hint the build name) and for damage, you deal more damage than the regular backstab build. and as far as i recall the other d/d backstab build didn’t have any cc besides SS, if you you want CC then get roll for initiative, problem solved you almost never get 8 stacks of might when putting 25 in so that’s not a big deal. and you deal more damage on 20/30/2/0/0 than 10/30/30/0/0. please stop commenting on my posts and stop stalking me. i’ve looked at your recent posts and it’s all negative.

Ok…you lost me. So you’re saying you don’t use any other attacks besides Backstab?

Also, are you saying other Backstab builds do not have condition clenase besides shadowstep/shadowreturn and the answer to condition cleanse is roll for initiative?

aLovedhater.4096:

Build
:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYFFhmLNJdi/ciY7RP3JR5UkUoqpgm2E-jUCBYfERjEEgkFA0HQpPFRjtMsIas6aYKXER12cFRrWIABjBA-w
note: the empty healing skill is the new healing skill.

What is and isn’t required
food isn’t required, if you can’t afford it you can always buy lower grade food, but it is pretty cheap, Runes and sigils ARE required, it’s fine if you can’t afford bloodlust runes, i often take force runes because i’m to lazy too farm stacks. ascended items aren’t required, (just try to keep your crit chance around 42%)! prefix’s are required.

how to engage
don’t blow all of your venoms then engage, that’s a waste of 1k+ free health and damage. to play this build you want to CYCLE though your venoms, i normally wait til i’m a bit low and pop spider venom for some healing and damage/reduced healing effectiveness on enemy (from poison). i’ll normally use basilisk venom when the enemy is around half hp and go in for a backstab to kill them (if i havn’t already used it) and i’ll use skale venom early in the fight when i need healing and want vulnerability on my target. how i normally engage will be something like this:
heartseeker towards the enemy and pop my steal while in mid air (for extra range) i damage them with my heartseeker and mug trait, then i will immediately clock and dagger and backstab them, then i will normally pop a venom to get some healing/damage in and use it on the enemy, keeping venoms up so i can continue to cycle through them/aswell and re cloaking and backstabbing for maximum damage.

how to disengage
say you’re fighting an annoying hammer warrior (hammer warriors are always annoying to me ;-;) and midway into the fight they hammerstun you and you’re low enough health to die, so you need to escape, you simply shadow step away to break the stun and then heartseeker away/switch to your shortbow for 50% endurance and use infiltrator’s arrow to escape, very simple!

why i use these runes
for mobility speed. you need mobility when you roam, for chasing as well and running away.

Why i don’t take infusion of shadow
i dont take this trait because we have had our initiative regeneration buffed from .75 to 1 per second, this helps a lot and makes it so you don’t have to rely on initiative traits anymore.

comparison to regular d/d backstab build
more damage/slows/condi
less stealth (you can only stealth from cloak and dagger/trait passives)
alternatively you COULD take shadow refuge in place of skale venom for the extra stealth) the stats themselves are about the same, but more power since you took traits in the deadly arts tree
(the d/d backstab i used to use was 0/30/30/10/0 btw)

any questions?
i’d love some feedback
aLovedHater
Anvil Rock

-edit
stupid spelling mistakes

This is another bad build. If you would, please put in more hours on the thief and maybe you will see what is wrong with this build. Unlike my prior posts, I’ll give you a hint.

Venom – There’s an internal cooldown of 1 secs meaning you will most likely not fully benefit from all of the potential healing due to the fast attacks of the dagger.

Damage – Damage/burst from D/D comes from Backstab. If you lessen the amount of time you can enter stealth, it directly decreases damage. Therefore, this build will do less damage than your typical D/D build. Additionally, you will lose about 4-8 stacks of might without going into 25 in SA. On a regular 10/30/30/0/0 build you will have more power than your 20/30/20/0/0 build.

Condition – You have no conditions removal other than SS.

That’s it for now. I think we both learned somethign today.

Undeadkemea.4865:

Well, the thing is, it’s only above 90%. Yeah sure it shafts condi necros really really hard. You have a hardcounter in a 1 versus 1 now.
Not the best way to go about balancing but hey. Atleast you don’t have to be scared for Sword/x thieves now, they are all gone! :P (maybe some stubborn ones, just stun em and be done with em! xD)

Always had one, AR engi.

If WvW, you don’t even need enchanter. Stay at max range and let your Izerker do the rest. Go in only for the kill. The only thing you should be worried about at max range is signet of spite or spectal grasp both are easy to avoid. Other than that, enjoy the hand massage at 1200 range.

JonPeters.5630:

Dahkeus.8243:

Josh Davis.6015:

Way to go, Jon…making me look bad!

Aww, don’t be such a grouch! Oh wait…

As for the new heals, I’m sure this will be good for some classes, but on my thief, I feel like I already have some of the best heals in the game. It’s going to be tough to add something that will appeal to me more than Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

P.s. I’d rather see more Elites added than either heals or utilities.

Oh the new thief heal is going to mix some things up for sure!!!

As a thief why would I use the venom heal when W/D or HiS is better?

Why should I subject myself to a chance of not getting the heal? (i.g. venom can be dodged, blocked, invul, miss, etc).

I know what you’re thinking. Venom share right? Sorry, if we go 30 points in SA, we do kitten damage and then why even bother taking a thief then?

Regarding build diversity. I’m all for it but I think you guys failed to look at the indirect impact it has on other class.

For example, P/P or S/P thief, if I see a necro with the new signet on plus maybe retal I would do 6-8K damage but in return I would receive 5K damage from signet and retal or 3K damage from the signet alone. So…if necro decide to take the new heal, this actually decreases build diversity albeit indirectly.

Bunda.2691:

Travlane.5948:

Bunda.2691:

Travlane.5948:

Bunda.2691:

I play mostly mesmer these days (though not blackwater), so thought I’d weigh in. That build—blackwater, PU/condition—is quite good, but it has a few huge weaknesses, notably conditions and cc. It also has zero chase ability. When I played that build, I could give many thieves a good fight … until they backed off. And this is the thief’s major class-defining quality: the ability to choose and dictate fights. Few other classes have the mobility and escape, save maybe GS warriors and some mesmers (though importantly not blackwater!).

I agree that Prismatic Understanding is powerful—perhaps a bit too powerful. But like all other builds across all characters, it has weaknesses. For example, necros, engis, and, yes, condition thieves can all wreck it. Mesmer invisibility is powerful in short fights, but as the fight goes on and cooldowns catch up with you, stealth is much harder to achieve. Good thieves know this. They hit hard, bait out mesmers’ invisibility, and, most importantly, know the terrain and where the mesmer is likely to go. Save your high-power skills for when our invis is on cooldown, use blind if you see phantasms being summoned (in fact, use blind liberally), but be prepared to pull back if you are getting low on health. Staff/scepter mesmers cannot really chase or cc you, nor do they have anything (except chaos storm, which is on a long cooldown and doesn’t do much damage) to even hurt you in shadow refuge (and they have nothing to knock you out of it).

In short, patient thieves can wreck PU mesmers. Those that go all in and spam skills, however, will have much more trouble.

PU power builds, on the other hand, are very phantasm reliant. Dodge and then kill the phantasms, and you’ll find that the mesmer has little else to do significant damage. I agree this can be hard against good mesmers. But good mesmers will kill me too, as good players should.

Last but not least, keep in mind that for mesmers, stealth (and PU) is a crutch. You give up a lot of offense to take it, and it provides high survival in exchange for significant damage output (or, in stealth/condi builds, mobility and cc). The best mesmers use very little stealth, because PU gimps a lot of other builds. This even further allows others—and thieves, above all—to dictate the terms of fights against stealth mesmers.

again…coversation yyou totally missed. its not about thief vs mesmer or mesmer not having or having weaknesses. its about stealth and the fact mesmers AI does the work and can even do dmg themselves while in stealth and never get revealed. thief however can do nothing while in stealth or it reveals him. period. thats not fair. PU is a build for dummies. literally….. heres the ideas……stay invis let the computer do the work mostly….and dodge roll when u need to while stealth isnt up…atleast til you entere stealth again then just continue eating popcorn.

So your complaint is with … the concept of mesmers?? That they cast (mostly) static clones that do a bit of damage?? I may as well condemn thieves guild (how dare you cast AI-controlled minions) or caltrops (How dare you cast a skill that has the audacity to, on its own, harm me if I decide to step in its red circle).

PU may be a bit powerful, I’ll give you that, but it’s still a crutch. You may not kill them, but you shouldn’t die to PU condition builds. Also, remember that revealed is meant primarily to prevent perma-stealth on thieves, not mesmers. I agree that it is a crude solution, but keep in mind that it was designed for thieves, not mesmers.

seems only a few adept players/experienced players get it.

thief AI = follow player while stealthed
mesmer AI= still attack direct and conditions while player stealthed

best AI = mesmer

thief = no dmg while stealthed without causing reveal
mesmer = can do damage while stealthed

best dps in stealth without reveal = mesmer

Thief = has to set up attacks in stealth and atleast 1/2 miss while playing defensively.
mesmer = ranged and don thave to set up but only play defensive/

You’re totally correct. Mesmers, by virtue of the way their profession works, do more damage than thieves while stealthed.

But, conversely, which profession does more damage while not stealthed?

In the end, it’s kind of a wash. As it should be.

You dummy, the Memser does more damage of course.

You see, to do a Backstab, you need oh guess what? Stealth.

Part of the burst that is non stealth is CnD and Mug which doesn’t even do 1/2 the damage of Mesmer BF+Shatter.

Also, are you implying that clones/phant stop attacking while you’re not stealthed?

meichor.7809:

Noss.4105:

eozturk.7205:

PU builds are excellent example of showing bad players in the game. If you can’t manage to beat a PU build mesmer, you are doing something wrong. L2P issue.

So… you’re basically saying PU builds are the worst builds mesmer has.

He’s saying PU build is very good against inexperienced players which is quite a large population in gw2…

No…he is saying if you can’t beat a PU mesmer, you’re a bad player. He said nothing about inexperienced players.

And I’m willing to beat in a duel, two PU memser can’t beat each other. So does that make them both bad?

baylock.1703:

baylock.1703:

teg.1340:

Stealth IMO should either trigger revealed when you deal damage (no matter if its direct or passive damage through pets) or when you take damage. Otherwise its too strong. So for mesmers it should be the other way around: get revealed when you take damage in stealth.

Revealed for thieves was introduced for a reason…

what part of stealth is utility for mesmers you dont understand? and its not offencive for mesmers its deffencive revealed was intrudiced to thiefs beacose otherwize you use shadow refuge and start spamming bacstab… untill stealth runs out and you lucky tath you can remove ageis from stealth its not revelaing when you hit target with ageis.

and if you want regenerations on stealth you can take http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Rejuvenation what heals you alot more than mesmers get healing from regen from stealth … and you dont get all 3 boons every second in stealth you randomly get eather ageis/regeneration or protection for 3 seconds every second so its just soo random and on luck.

its my last post here I have no time or will to teach all mechanics you go and lear ur own class and remember thiefs guild also dont reveal thief.

Actually, you randomly get either aegis/regen/or protection. However, the chance of getting protection is higher due to a minor trait that gives protection upon getting regen. Small detail…

As for the OP topic, illusion will not break stealth. If it did, the build would be trashed killing 1 elite, 2 utilities, and 1 weapon skill (and I haven’t touched traits yet). However, it does warrant some type of review from Anet as summoning a phantasm that can crit for upwards of 6-7K from stealth and at range seems broken to me.

Mesmer is a beast of a class, the only thing that’s really holding any nerfs is Tpvp which forces the mesmer to stay in or close by the capture point thus PU spec is undesireable.

It is wack-a-mole balancing from Anet. If it is not a problem in Tpvp, they barely touch it.

Well…Anet may release new gamemode in the future so this spec may see more play in the future.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

I personally think you’re an incompetent and irresponsible developer. You knew that the Warrior was going to be very strong months ago (basically you admitted to this). Yet, you and your team stood by and did nothing to avoid what we are seeing today. If I was your boss, your kitten would be out the door months ago.

MyPuppy.8970:

You should train in hotjoin, learn the maps, people are more forgiving there. Go in soloque only if you can make him bite his tongue.
Even though, you’ll still receive unkind words sometimes when your team lose. I usualy just reply casually “Please, grow up”, there’s no snap back.

All I can say is, if you enjoy pvp, don’t let that affect you. You’ll only become a better player.

This is hotjoin 99% of the time…look at my game records. I don’t do much soloque and non tpvp.

I have been trying to learn how to play spvp and this is what I get directed to me:

Learn to play you kittening noob.

You’re trash.

Respect the boss you trash.

Every time, there are multiple insults from various people. I don’t take these attacks personally, but why should I play a game mode where part of it is taking verbal abuse?

So, I tried and I saw and goodbye.

Alys Florent.1359:

Dee Jay.2460:

From all the MMOs I’ve played over the past decade I find the CC in GW2 to be the most frustrating of all.

This may seem odd at first since at first glance, CC in GW2 is of fairly short duration and not all classes have much of it. That’s true to a point, but only until you consider other factors.

1. CC duration vs. time to live.

In GW2 the time-to-live for your character depends heavily on your class and build. I’m going to base this off a 1v1 situation + some additional random AoE damage flying about (assume a node-team-fight with one guy targeting you). Soft glass-cannons (Thieves, Eles) may barely last 2 seconds in such a situation.

Compare that to say World of Warcraft, where every character could take a 10 second beat-down even while afk.

Now look at your 3 second fears or stuns in such a situation and compare it to the max. 6 second stuns/fears in WoW (with most being considerably shorter). GW2’s average CC duration is 100-150% of it lowest time-to-live character while WoW’s is 60% tops.

2. CC is fairly abundant on certain builds.

For the first few months of GW2, CC wasn’t a major focus for most builds. But now it is, especially in WvW where CC is the decisive key to many zerg fights. Nowadays PvP combat is all about CC your enemy as much as possible while beating him down with damage or conditions. Hammer Warriors are the pinnacle of this development but Necros and Mesmers aren’t that far off.

Fighting classes that have one or two minor CCs is fine. But fighting classes that have more…or just revolve around CC…is incredibly frustrating.

3. So much CC is AoE

This is probably the biggest difference to most previous MMOs. Most CC ins GW2 is AoE. Very little of it needs to actually be targeted as a specific target. Instead it’s enough to throw it in the general direction of your enemy and you will achieve the desired effect.

This is what makes node-fights and zerg battles such a clusterkitten and is a big reason why playing such content without Stability is very frustrating.

Ironically Stability, the only real counter to this CC spam, is most available to classes that are the biggest CC spamers.
__________________________________

If your favorite class has access to Stability you may disagree with my assessment. But play a class that has no such thing and I’m sure you’ll eventually reach the same conclusion.

I sympathize. The longer the CC is, the bigger the wind-up should be, right, so you can dodge or interrupt? But that’s not how GW2 works mostly. Hammer on Warrior is actually one of the most balanced CC weapons because all of its big CCs (2s knockdown, 2s stun) have very visible cast animations. But mace is unbalanced – 3s stun that’s instant cast? Doom (Necro DS #3) is also absurd, 2.5s instant cast fear and requires even less skill to land than skull crack. I’m not saying these skills are OP, just that they’re badly designed.

Lockdown CC, like anything with at least 1s duration, should have at least 1s visible cast time. Interrupt CC, where the duration is like 0.5s, can stick with lower cast times.

The Hammer Warrior CC is balanced in terms of animation, however, the amount of CC that this weapon gets is over the top. I would say #4 and #5 is good/fine but the burst skill needs a longer cooldown. An 8 sec cooldown for a range aoe stun is…stupid.

Dee Jay.2460:

From all the MMOs I’ve played over the past decade I find the CC in GW2 to be the most frustrating of all.

This may seem odd at first since at first glance, CC in GW2 is of fairly short duration and not all classes have much of it. That’s true to a point, but only until you consider other factors.

1. CC duration vs. time to live.

In GW2 the time-to-live for your character depends heavily on your class and build. I’m going to base this off a 1v1 situation + some additional random AoE damage flying about (assume a node-team-fight with one guy targeting you). Soft glass-cannons (Thieves, Eles) may barely last 2 seconds in such a situation.

Compare that to say World of Warcraft, where every character could take a 10 second beat-down even while afk.

Now look at your 3 second fears or stuns in such a situation and compare it to the max. 6 second stuns/fears in WoW (with most being considerably shorter). GW2’s average CC duration is 100-150% of it lowest time-to-live character while WoW’s is 60% tops.

2. CC is fairly abundant on certain builds.

For the first few months of GW2, CC wasn’t a major focus for most builds. But now it is, especially in WvW where CC is the decisive key to many zerg fights. Nowadays PvP combat is all about CC your enemy as much as possible while beating him down with damage or conditions. Hammer Warriors are the pinnacle of this development but Necros and Mesmers aren’t that far off.

Fighting classes that have one or two minor CCs is fine. But fighting classes that have more…or just revolve around CC…is incredibly frustrating.

3. So much CC is AoE

This is probably the biggest difference to most previous MMOs. Most CC ins GW2 is AoE. Very little of it needs to actually be targeted as a specific target. Instead it’s enough to throw it in the general direction of your enemy and you will achieve the desired effect.

This is what makes node-fights and zerg battles such a clusterkitten and is a big reason why playing such content without Stability is very frustrating.

Ironically Stability, the only real counter to this CC spam, is most available to classes that are the biggest CC spamers.
__________________________________

If your favorite class has access to Stability you may disagree with my assessment. But play a class that has no such thing and I’m sure you’ll eventually reach the same conclusion.

Thank you for taking the time to post this as I was going to post something similar to your post.

I would like to add this:

1. - CC damage too high

Control abilities are very powerful when used at the right time. In most games that I played, the tradeoff of using CC is damage. You’re already control the other character with your abilities but to do massive damage on top of that is…well unbalance in my opinion.

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

Again, I don’t think you understand.
“I’m sure you’d fit right in [with Anet]”.
No that doesn’t mean, I think Anet is going to give GW2 super skilled gameplay.
No it doesn’t mean that I think GW2 will be some super competitive Esports beast.

It means your idea is obviously trash and will only make the game even less playable.
Not competitive.
Less entertaining to play.

Like next to every idea from Anet.

If all you wanted was to win, counter-meta wouldn’t matter.
If anything it would be bad because you would be playing the peak of the current meta, so smashing most people with it…. having hard counters to the top tier kitten is only asking to lose…

Hm…maybe. So you’re saying I should stick with condi if I want an easy mode win?

garethh.3518:

MIrra.3604:

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

I don’t think you realize what you are saying.
CC’locks are less entertaining to play and play against than conditions.

The reason the ‘condi meta’ was so hated was because it was dull as kitten to play with and play against…
Your saying the fix to that should be worse than the problem…
What.
The.
kitten.

Get a job at Anet you fool, I’m sure you’d fit right in.

Why would I or people who play “condi meta” give a kitten if it is boring to play? You play to win and you bring the build/setup to win. It doesn’t matter if it a 1 shot cheese spec or a passive build or a CC locked hammer train- whatever it takes to win (within the rules of course).

If I wanted a game that relied on skill, I wouldn’t be playing GW2 because this game is so easy mode. Heck, the system isn’t even built to support competitive play i.e. why can’t I pick which condition gets removed first?

So in the end, you’re the fool for thinking this game will be anything other than easy cheese mode.

This is what PvP needs!

We need these warriors to counter the condition meta.

2 Hammer + Mace/Sheild Warriors paired with a Pure of Voice + Soldier Rune Guardian – this will reck any condi setup.

runeblade.7514:

sorrow.2364:

Scar.1793:

Are you serious ?
Like someone said, poison. But the passive heal isn’t that high, you must be mad.
Look at Elems, they have lots of regen skills. Yet I don’t cry about it.

Elementalist’s regen is nowhere as good as warrior’s regen.

Also, stop with this Poison joke. To let poison really do something against permanent regen, you have to mantain it permanently, which is impossible considering how stupid good are warrior’s condition cleansing.

Warrior’s regen is slightly better because it is a HEALING skill. Elementalist regen is in a Weapon skill, and traits.

Elementalist’s burst heal is BETTER than the warrior’s burst heal on healing signet.

To be accurate, Warrior healing signet is a lot better than Ele’s Signet of Restoration…in terms of heal per sec, activation, and cooldown.

ryston.7640:

I see a number of calls for 20v20 or classic 8v8

The reason this wont work in gw2:

Rallying on stomp turns large battles into stupid cluster kittens

a good even fight, both teams lose 3 people to downed state in the open, and then one team gets a stomp

now its 20v17+2, and the 17+2 have a secondary objective (get rezs off) to deal with. the thing just snowballs.

This game really isnt fun in fights sized more than 3v3, and 2v2 usually feels better.

blame kittenty development, like i do.

You could look at it from a different perspective; the risk of going down and rallying the enemies is so high, that it increases the skill floor of all the players on the team no matter what class they play.

BurrTheKing.8571:

This last month and a half have been very confusing to me. The majority of PvP players agree that the condition meta isn’t fun and needs to go asap. The thing is we already have the tools to try and change the meta ourselves without the need of a balance patch.

Warrior is the answer.

The class has several build that are absolutely perfect for destroying condition based builds, yet no high ranking teams seem willing to use them. What’s even more baffling is how the same people who are saying how much they hate the current meta are now claiming that the class that can stop them is OP. This may just be a case of a very vocal minority making a lot of noise; that being said it still doesn’t excuse the lack of use Warriors are still seeing.

Even if you think Warrior is OP, which I don’t, why are you unwilling to use it yet it’s fine to use Necromancers and Spirit Rangers? Why not try taking 2 Warriors in place of 2 condition users? Building to beat the enemy team is how you create a more dynamic and constantly shifting meta. Hopefully, if we saw more teams with Warriors curb stomping condition teams that would lead to them bringing something like a Mesmer in order to counter Warriors. What was common in GW1 was that Hammer Warriors who know how to quarter knock could lock down a high value target like a monk, so teams had a Mesmer with skills that forced the Warrior to back off.

It feels like the balance team is attempting to indirectly nerf conditions by buffing Warrior. This is a great strategy in my eyes so long as they avoid too much power creep. Too many players want to be able to have a fair chance to win against any build, this is not only practically impossible but not the best choice if you want a shifting meta. A Rock-Paper-Scissors approach would make the game much easier to balance and would allow for more team diversity.

Imagine that conditions are scissors, CC Warriors with Zerker Stance, Dogged March, and Cleansing ire (notice how much they invest) have become rock. So what’s paper? Mesmers, just like GW1. They have access to so many escapes that CC is all but worthless, and that’s fine. The balance isn’t perfect yet but if they keep this sort of balance philosophy I could see Warriors and Mesmers becoming an important part of any team. In a perfect world every class would have access to a rock, paper, and scissor build without being able to have elements of multiple without having significant weaknesses as well.

Instead of demanding that ANet keeps patching the game, lets try and change it ourselves and make their job easier.

EDIT: Here’s the most recent SotG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DEYg4dHttc

I too think the Warrior is the answer. I just need to convince my WvW guild to bring the hammer train to Spvp so we can show off 1 – how easy it is to play Warriors and 2 – CC is king.

I theorycrafted the following setup:

1 – Support/Bunker Guardian

1 – Mesmer

3 Warriors

-2 Hammer and Mace/Shield. Spec for 0/10/30/0/30. Utilities are BS, BS, EP (or SoS). Basically, these guys just chain CC people to death.

-1 GS and Rifle. Spec for 0/30/10/0/30. Utitlies are BS, EP, ES. Due to condition spam, this guy stays in the back to pew pew at 1200 range. I know kill shot is hard to land but when you can do it at 1500 range, its hard to see it coming.

S: Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian

A: None

B: None

C: All others

You know John Peter mains a Warrior right?

Anyways, Warrior’s hammer is getting a buff next patch.

Buffing Warrior and no buff to Ele. It must be true.

http://pastebin.com/sXHq6fZt

Not sure if real. Looks legit.

If the condi meta is a result of burst/bunker nerfs, why can’t we keep condi the same and increase burst/bunker builds?

Un-nerf the ele bunker (RTL, Cleansing, Healing, etc) and burst (BWE nerfs)
Un-nerf the thief burst (CnD, DD, HS, etc)
etc, etc….

DevonCarver.5370:

bradderzh.2378:

We, the people of lower tiers, don’t mind testing our metal against tough odds. We do however mind it when the servers with the most players and best coverage gets the best rewards purely for the numbers reason only.

But as you said in another topic, wvw isn’t fair. All rank 12 has to do is throw enough matches to drop to rank 13 and get the best rewards.

So, as I’ve said before, we are still looking into ways to try and alleviate those problems, but that is also what WvW is like right now, so while this season will create new rewards and new incentives to play, it isn’t as though this is a brand new problem. We want to make it so that skill is more important than sheer numbers and we have some ideas. None of them are so easy/safe to implement that they are going to happen in the near-term.

“Skill is more importanat than sheer numbers…”

How can I take your comment seriously. Everything you done or havent done just cater to zerglings.

A freaking PvE Warg or Worm gives more WXP than a player kill. Shaking my head.

Atherakhia.4086:

I haven’t seen too much change in sPvP that made the slightest difference in WvW. The spirit change for example really didn’t impact WvW rangers one bit because the spirits have always sucked in WvW. The pet nerf a ways back also had limited impact because, again… WvW is not friendly to pets.

The only thing that truly suffers in this game with sPvP nerfs is dungeon crawls, but even then, most classes in this game suck in PvE too.

My issue with balancing around sPvP like ANet has been doing is more related to the fact that ALL changes done to the classes for the past year have been focused on balancing the classes around the existing sPvP meta. This means that classes haven’t grown at all. The weak areas have stayed the same. The strong areas have been nerfed. Nothing has been done to encourage diverse builds or play styles.

The Ranger is a great example of this as well. The Ranger class has no focus or role to play in this game. It’s power based options have never worked. Most skills are awful. Nearly every adjustment (either positive or negative) has been to push it more into a bunker/regen condi playstyle. The problems it had at release have gone unfixed. The areas that need only slight nudges to become useful have gone ignored in favor of reinforcing whatever sPvP meta is currently running.

The balance changes for sPvP have a valuable impact on WvW and I see very little harm in the changes made. The problem is ANet suffers from SEVERE tunnel vision and have let a number of classes wallow and die to the point WvW is dominated by about 4 classes and ANet doesn’t even appear to be aware of it.

Do you WvW?

Here’s an example:

Warrior Dogged March + rune of melandru + lemongrass = reduce cripple, chill, immob duration by 98%.

Change to Warrior Berz stance = Warriors are over the top in WvW with abundance condition removal and immunity.

Condition Regen Warrior = why am I even posting. Anet isn’t going to split skills.

darkdomino.9578:

Seems like everyone has an opinion on this subject, and I’m curious to know if anyone has any solid factual evidence either which way…

Some people say that GW2 is losing money, that 400,000 active players at any given time is considered “low” for the industry… and that GW2 doesn’t have the cashflow to produce the kind of expansion-pack level content that people are asking for. (and by expansion-pack grade content, I mean new zones, new classes/races, new storylines – not just mini-events)

Other people seem to think that A-net is doing just fine, and has plenty of money coming in from the gemstore and box sales. I read an interview by one of the big buys at A-net and he basically said that the “market was healthy” and that they had no cashflow problems. He also said something to the effect that the Black Lion Trading Post was profitable and that “players were doing their duty” as far as microtransactions go.

Anyway – I’m curious to know what people think about this…. The disconnect for me is that if A-net has the money to produce large-scale content for GW2 and isn’t … why? If they don’t have the money, or willingness to re-invest in GW2 in a meaningful way… what’s the future of GW2?

People often hold up GW2’s free2play model as one of the best/fairest in the industry… is the model working? If so, when can we expect actual meaningful content, such as Guild Halls, new gameplay mechanics, new classes/races?

I am not a expert but from reading the NCSoft’s financials, this is how much revenue they gained from GW2:

2012 – $165M
1st Q 2013 – $36M
2nd Q 2013 – $29M

Total so far is $230M

Fokittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnntus.6175:

How the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k.

Either you need to reworkout the whole hp from eles or move the damage from backstab to something that ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK, right now it is incredibly dumb how they can pop out of stealth, kill you in literally less than a sec with Backstab HS HS and there is literally no counter to this unless you have stealth of your own or have aegis to save your butt.

I used arcane shield, it blocked two attacks, none revealed the thief, he kjust backed away until it disappeared, so no, thats not the counter, a good counter would be IF IT REVEALED THEM , but NOOooooo, we cant have a thief having to do any thinking on enemies CD, he could’ve ignored the shield anyways, the damage isnt enough to kill him if it explodes anyways.

EDIT Wow people, do you mind if you read before you post? You guys just assumed all I said was “wahh wahh thief OP nerf damage”. All I said is they need some countering, some counterplay, its pretty stupid they are the only class with access to the most uncounterable mechanic, been able to spam it and get the hardest hitting spell in the game which not even aegis can save you from.
But its ok, i guess at the end of the day we all just gotta roll guardians and mesmers.

Picts related

Seriously, L2P.

Counterplay starts long before the the fight even starts; traits, food, gear/weapon, utilities, etc.

A thief would attack from stealth since we have stealth attacks. A ranger wouldn’t attack from stealth since they do not have any stealth attacks; their stealth would be purely defensive. Therefore, the ranger would wait out the full duration of stealth.

Assuming a thief would attack within 1 sec from entering stealth, over 29 sec the stealth uptime is roughly 28%. Assuming the thief attack right before stealth ends to maximize stealth uptime, over 31 sec the stealth uptime is roughly 50%.

This is not taking stealth stacking into consideration.

Assuming a ranger would stay in stealth for the full duration of stealth and with the -20% CD reduction on weapon, over 30 sec the stealth uptime is roughly 40%.

As a thief, may I have my 1200 range weapon back please? Also, please add an option to increase the range to 1800 please? Thanks.

Awesome. Thanks.

I was reading the new blog post and Anet mentioned there will be new skills and traits in WvW and PvE. Will this addition to the game come to PvP?

Thanks,

It also applies blind every 1/2-2/3 sec instead of 1 per sec.

Travlane.5948:

thieves are fun and good at 1 v 1. we suck at everything else. actually we are good blast finishers in wvw for pre battle buffs. but soon as ur done with 4x Cluster bomb then just afk til the fights over bc ur not much use :P

I think you don’t understand the thief class and how to use it properly in PvE, WvW, and Spvp.

Advantages of Thief in WvW:

-King of solo roaming, yak killing, camp soloing
-D/P perma stealth allows you to follow the enemy zerg undetected and communicate their intentions/positions
-Zerg group, if you’re in a proper zerg group, you guys would stick tight and combo field with water to keep everyone healed up. No one and I mean no one can blast like a thief. You are providing group support via blast finisher, poison and weakness field (which they recent buffed), and aoe damage/bleeds.Spec condition not glass cannon if you want to stay with the zerg. P.S. you should be able to get 6-7 bombs off before you run out of init. You may want to check your spec for zerging.
-If two zerg are stacking up before engaging, you could SF and poison field the enemy zerg without breaking stealth. By putting the enemy zerg on the defensive/combat/using cooldowns first, your zerg has the uppper hand.
-Perma Stealth gives you enough time to rez a mesmer that is dead inside a tower or keep so they can portal people in. No one else can do this.
-Contesting a waypoint unseen. Anyone can do this but the thief is the best at this. Forcing the enemy to longer route means less reinforcements and lower response time.

I could go on and on in regards to WvW/PvE/Spvp. But you’re so blind and bias, I’ll just stop here.

style.6173:

Doesn’t need a fix. The thief is already one of the weakest classes in the game.

Overall:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-present-Vote-for-the-worst-Results/first

PvP:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30/first

Instead of nerf threads, maybe it is time to start focusing on thief buff threads.

Again, this is a WvW post. In WvW, the thief is the king in solo/small scale fights.

Wolfe.3097:

so basically you want to DP to choose between our one viable (because of anets changes) way to play, or be able to stealth..survive, and not kill.

sounds kitten backwards to me.

also what about D/D or just x/D? thats ok with its own level of stealth? yet D/P who while can enter stealth more reliably, has to expend noticeably more initiative to do so, is the culprit?

as far as stealth stacking goes, ive yet to see a post by anet saying thakittens bad or unintentional, until then, talking about nerfing it has no real merit.

sorry, i understand your trying to be constructive with this post, and i dont fault you for it certainly. But i fail to see how D/P is anything more then what the other sets should strive for, a well rounded set that has all useful abilities and can support a group offensively as well as provide good solo capability.

How is this any differant than a D/D spec going 25/30/0/0/15 for max damage and a 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/10/0 for some burst + some toughness? Everyone should be forced to pick one side or the other.

Devs said stealth stacking is bad or unintended. They just don’t know what to do about it.

When you look at stealth on weapon set, either it be CnD or BP+HS, your traits define how long you can stay or stack stealth. We have a lot of traits that increases init regen or, for the lack of a better term, refund init. Some of these traits are needed in some builds such as D/D, S/D, ect to maintain burst damage. If you nerf a trait because of stealth chaining such as BP+HS, other builds will be indirectly affected which may or may not be warranted.

Does D/P need a nerf to stealth uptime? I feel like they do and some may disagree with me. But for the purpose of this post, lets assume Anet wants to tone down stealth uptime of D/P users in WvW. They are content with D/P in Spvp but the uptime is a bit too much in WvW.

I would suggest the following change to balance stealth stacking in WvW:

- Smoke Combo Fields
-Gain Stealth with Leap Finish
-Stealth duration gain from stealth combo reduce to 2 sec.

As of right now, you can go 0/30/30/10/0 with D/P and still be bursty with high stealth uptime. The decrease in stealth duration via combo will really force D/P players to pick between damage or stealth uptime. i.e. 0/30/30/10/0 for burst but lower stealth uptime or 0/0/30/25/15 etc for lower burst but higher stealth uptime.

Vashti.8179:

MIrra.3604:

JakobGW.5730:

Zacchary.6183:

All I saw was you kittening around and getting killed. You made no attempt to flush her out. You made no attempt to force her to face stab so she may reveal herself.

2:30 of you dancing around pretty much told her you were kittening with her, so she waited for you. The moment you got close enough she blinded you, followed you in the wide arch you made and landed a backstab that put you on your kitten .

Yes, it is your fault for getting complacent while using zerk. It is also your fault for not turning sharply to make it harder for the backstab to land. Not only that, it keeps a backstabbing stealth thief in a small area 9 times out of 10. You could have hit them and possibly lay down some cripple.

Honestly, I always appreciate a critique of my play style. I do like it when folks offer suggestions of how I can improve.

I suppose you’re right. I suppose I could have just swung my sword in the air over and over and over like an idiot hoping to see the combo chain. I “could” have hit the thief and “possibly” lay down some cripple. Obviously that would be entirely lucky as I didn’t see her within any proximity of striking distance from 00:15 until she killed me at 2:50 and, after all, she could easily dodge my attacks in stealth. I suppose I could have swung my sword repeatedly for over 2 1/2 minutes, “possibly” hitting her at most one time while he/she is regenerating health in stealth, of course.

It would have been pretty funny to him/her I’m sure if I was swinging over and over in thin air, sharply turning back and forth in a tight area, all hoping to mitigate a backstab and possibly hitting him/her, when in reality he/she is several units away, in stealth. I wouldn’t know, of course, as I can’t see him/her. I would just be guessing.

And that’s the point. It’s just too easy for a D/P thief to stealth over and over and over and over again whenever they please. There is no cooldown for this type of play style. You think players enjoy simply swinging in mid-air, hoping that they may lucky and actually hit a stealthed player, all while running back and forth using tight turns, when the thief could simply just back up, and do the whole BP + HS combo all over again with minimal to no risk. How many times does someone have to swing at thin air, running back and forth before it becomes stupid?

Clearly a L2P issue here. Why would you try to troll a D/P on a zerker S/D?

That’s almost like a staff ele trying to troll a D/D ele in open field.

There are 3 exists from the spawn point. Pick a different one and go on your way. You can’t win every fight you encounter.

The lack of reading comprehension in this thread makes me face palm. It’s pretty clear to me from reading his whole post (something that seems difficult for others to do) that he made the video as a way to illustrate the perma-stealth mechanic and nothing else. He’s not trying to troll and I’d be willing to bet that he’s aware of the other two exits. He made the video to show how long (basically indefinitely) thieves can stay stealthed. I agree with Jakob – the perma stealth builds are ridiculous and need to be fixed.

I would wager that the thieves in this thread that are arguing with Jakob are thieves running this same cheese-tastic build.

I know right! Best place to starting looking is at your own comment.

“…that he made the video as a way to illustrate the perma-stealth mechanic and nothing else.”

Not only did he post that video to show how long a d/p can stay in stealth, he also suggested blanket nerfs to all stealth users; D/D, S/D, D/P, P/D, etc. So, please read his posts and try to comprehend fully what he is trying to say/do.

JakobGW.5730:

Zacchary.6183:

All I saw was you kittening around and getting killed. You made no attempt to flush her out. You made no attempt to force her to face stab so she may reveal herself.

2:30 of you dancing around pretty much told her you were kittening with her, so she waited for you. The moment you got close enough she blinded you, followed you in the wide arch you made and landed a backstab that put you on your kitten .

Yes, it is your fault for getting complacent while using zerk. It is also your fault for not turning sharply to make it harder for the backstab to land. Not only that, it keeps a backstabbing stealth thief in a small area 9 times out of 10. You could have hit them and possibly lay down some cripple.

Honestly, I always appreciate a critique of my play style. I do like it when folks offer suggestions of how I can improve.

I suppose you’re right. I suppose I could have just swung my sword in the air over and over and over like an idiot hoping to see the combo chain. I “could” have hit the thief and “possibly” lay down some cripple. Obviously that would be entirely lucky as I didn’t see her within any proximity of striking distance from 00:15 until she killed me at 2:50 and, after all, she could easily dodge my attacks in stealth. I suppose I could have swung my sword repeatedly for over 2 1/2 minutes, “possibly” hitting her at most one time while he/she is regenerating health in stealth, of course.

It would have been pretty funny to him/her I’m sure if I was swinging over and over in thin air, sharply turning back and forth in a tight area, all hoping to mitigate a backstab and possibly hitting him/her, when in reality he/she is several units away, in stealth. I wouldn’t know, of course, as I can’t see him/her. I would just be guessing.

And that’s the point. It’s just too easy for a D/P thief to stealth over and over and over and over again whenever they please. There is no cooldown for this type of play style. You think players enjoy simply swinging in mid-air, hoping that they may lucky and actually hit a stealthed player, all while running back and forth using tight turns, when the thief could simply just back up, and do the whole BP + HS combo all over again with minimal to no risk. How many times does someone have to swing at thin air, running back and forth before it becomes stupid?

Clearly a L2P issue here. Why would you try to troll a D/P on a zerker S/D?

That’s almost like a staff ele trying to troll a D/D ele in open field.

There are 3 exists from the spawn point. Pick a different one and go on your way. You can’t win every fight you encounter.

Archaon.6245:

MIrra.3604:

Seriously, what the heck do I do when I get Moa? The only thing I can do is smash the 5 button.

Am I suppose to be a semi free kill when I get Moa?

Dodge/block/evade moa…pretty long cast and obvious animation, not a big deal…tw still better imo.

1 sec cast time is long?

So, the recent patch changed how the condition blind is removed.

Before, you just have to pay attention to blind and auto attack to remove it which seems fair as it reward players who have combat awareness. It forces an action; either waiting it out or auto attack to remove it. If you did neither of those, you may suffer a lenghty cooldown on one of your abiltiies.

Now, you can’t remove it by using auto attacks anymore…you actually have to cleanse it or attack someone within range. I am fine with this, but with the abundance of blinds available to certain classes, this may be a bit too much.

In a D/D thief vs D/D thief, it basically comes down to who can blind the other person first.

I’m not asking for a nerf yet…as I play a thief and will experiment with this but I predict fighting a D/P thief as a S/X or D/D thief just became 100% harder.

What is your take on this change? Is this a good change for the condition and the thief in general or is it too strong?

So…I can’t remove it by auto attacking anymore. I can spam all of my attacks and as long as a target is not within range, I will still be blind. WTF is this kitten?

This will kittening up mesmer so hard….

Razor.6392:

I cannot understand how anyone could think of giving a stun breaker to GoEP.

I have a hard time believing that any of the game balance designers even PLAY this game.

Don’t get me wrong though, some changes are welcome, but still boggles my mind how some balance decisions can make it to live when they don’t make any kitten sense.

I wouldn’t lie to my fellow eles :P

Coloxeus.3480:

Shadow Return not a breakstun anymore but still cost 2 initiatives!? what do u guys think? giv us your thought.

It is fine!

It still teleport you back when you are stun.