Guild Wars 2

ResJudicator.7916:

OP’s posts are kind of ridiculous. They’re always a long-winded rant attacking anyone who suggests balance changes that impact his playstyle. Instead of writing up a multi-page tantrum, you could actually try responding to the points in a logical manner?

I’d do the same for you here, except you haven’t actually made any points except to disingenuously claim (per usual) that everyone who disagrees with you is a scrub.

like i did? it is actually really hard to complain with people who got enormous ego and max 10 hrs on the class and want major changes. stuff like that leads to a huge baised openion that they wanna force on everyone.

MadVisions.4529:

Supreme.3164:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)
3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

Hopefully we’ll see more counterplay to stealth in general when HoT release, even though I still think that current reveal utilities have too high CD for the utility

actually i feel that recent posts are too faar from the original posts theme, which mostly is about the section i commented.

actually i can go with the 1) and 2) couse reveal wont make you come out of stealth at all it just makes you unable to stealth 3) is not really necessary couse cill already slows thieves melle pressure by making them unable to chase the target. implementing 3) gonna make the class even more vulnerable wich is really unnecessary.

the only one things that would be worth comlyining (about d/p thief couse people tend forget to secify what they are talking about) is the ability to stealth other teammates for ages with blasting smoke fields or burning refugee CD —> insane roaming && spike potential with lets say a hammer guard || mesmer. the other one is the unique ‘back cap’ ability provided by the shortbow.
I believe these two major things are mentioned before. Could you people pls consider this and keep the topic prodictive?

this topic had to come soon. thx for drawing it up.

Puck.1509:

Well as a mesmer, thief is my hardcounter however I can beat them it just takes a bit of patience and timing. If I kite out his stealth and manage to dodge his backstabs or pull off invulnerability when needed I just need to get in 1 good combo and he’s dead. I however dislike when he dies in that long stealth, everybody runs off and he gets himself up. However a thief needs these mechanics to be effective. Like others have said, you take away what a thief does best and you can essentially just replace him with any other class. A thieve’s ability to roam the map quickly and get in and out of situations is all part of the classes role. I would say nerf the rangers longbow (2) skill before worrying about the thief.

The more I’ve taken to learn my class as mesmer is mostly all I play, no class is hardcountering me. Yes back when I started out as a mesmer I got wrecked but I refrained from coming on the forums and moaning, instead I mastered it and now I can effectively get out of most situations and counter most fights. People could say I’m OP because my instant damage output but yet not everyone can pull it off. When looking at a nooby thief, they spam their backstab steal and I just circle them laughing as its a simple thing to avoid.
Know your class before making any assessments. I do think the thieve’s stealth may need a very little look at but otherwise don’t take away what they’re good at.

My conclusion would be to master your class. MASTER it. Don’t get into the odd situations with a hard counter and kitten why they were able to get you and not what you could have done differently. Everytime I die, it is my fault. It the team is severely loosing then I couldn’t have done anything differently without support. But effectively it is your fault. You have a brain right? If you come across a class you know is going to out do you in a certain way (stealth) then out think him/her. Predict movements. When a thief goes stealth towards me, I wait a few seconds and stealth out until they’re revealed. Most classes have a block/invulnerable skill that they could use in place of stealth. Plenty of ways to get out of situations but its easier to ask arena net to help you so you do better.

I HATED rangers, now I merely drop them in a heartbeat because most that play just pew pew and have no reaction for when I come out of the blue and combo them. Their number 2 skill is overpowered slightly. But all I ask is that you firstly look at all your other possible scenarios before coming out with a problem requiring a nerf. I read a necro can easily counter a thief. This isn’t an imbalance this is a lack of skill on your half. Please focus on the real problems of the game.
Like build diversity.

finally someone who actually plays the game.

EazyPanda.6419:

Razelesh.1035:

I believe it is that long to prevent people from waiting it out and then teleporting forward again to chase an enemy.

Its already possible now.
Just jump and use it at the same time, you’ll not shadowstep back when you use return, and it will only clear your conditions.
Tho using it takes 5 initiative, but still handy when you are out of shadowsteps.

It’s up to you to judge whether you’ll need the return, and use both versions according to the situation.

you can stow weapon the return part so you use it whenever you want. using it thisway is a really offensive move couse you lose the option to fall back to los. fun fact: you move faster with this method than with SB#5 if you have a target selected in the distance.

you can get champ loot bagz from sw really easy. go make a comparison.

babayum.1895:

(i think with his backstab but im not sure)

….

problem can be solved by some practice i believe. you can find 1v1 custom arenas with a plenty of thieves.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Nope did not get owned by a thief, sorry conspiracy theory thieves. Only thief to own me in recent days was a really really good sword/dagger one and even then after 3rd encouter he had some major hard time with my ranger.

BLAH BLAH

So where exactly is the room for “skilled counter gameplay” against a thief who knows his stuff in pvp? Cause so far all i see is the “hold the point and survive for as long as possible”.

i smell contradiction.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Shadowstepping. Stealth not removed when blocked or evaded, , phletora of instant casts including a heal skill that breaks movement inpairment and has massive evade, initiative unaffected by chilling or interrupt induced skill cooldown.

Shadowstepping. : guess you want to argue about SB#5 as most of the non thief players do. i have to say it works as intended. offers decent mobility vs high resource cost. using 2 of these requires 12 init which is 4/5 of his MAX initiative. this end ideally in a 1800 range non instant transfer(which in realyty is like 1600 <— autohit range of LB ranger)

Stealth not removed when blocked or evaded. : if you are decent anough thief cant land most of his bs into your back. in that case its damage is weak. +you shoudnt block randomly bs’s couse you are missunderstanding something if you think bs is what kills you. most of thieves damage comes from autohit + sigil procs from them. or from some failed to evade hartseakers, but those are really your fault.

phletora of instant casts including a heal skill. : guess you want to interrupt thieves heals after almost downing them with 2 autohits. seems fair. Imo the 2 more instats you wanna complayn of are steal and headshot(this isnt really instant).
interrupting in gw2 is really dificult. in gw1 there was a bar which showed what spell your oponent was casting. we are missing this in gw2 so you have to know all the skill animations you are looking for to interrupt, then recognize then interrupt. this method leads to a way bigger reaction delay than in the old game where mesmers(man/secondary) owned interrupts with the same cast time. this skill also got a 4init skill cost which makes it really unspammable in most situations. Steal is steal deal with it. btw i got my steal random dodged many times #instant op.

interrupt induced skill cooldown: it does effect. they lose initiative. (when power locked they shoud lose more initiative instead of going CD)

and no chill shoudnt effect init regen. it already hurts badly thx.

PS: i see a lot of thief QQ topics recently but cant really find the reason. could someone pls make a ‘How to deal with thieves’ tutorial with gameplay footage to end this nonsence? (i cant do it, my PC cant even handle fraps + gw2 @ the same time lolz)
thieves are strong for theyr role but the OPs complaining in these topices dont really get close the facts that make this class used so often. its the ability of stealthing other high burst teammates for several seconds, the roaming/back capping potential, and the reast teammates are able to handle pressure while thief in peeling in all fights where it also cant rez or stomp, thanks to cele and shoutbow/engi aoe heal.

was thinking about to make the wery same post today. +1

Jekkt.6045:

fix what needs to be fixed.. think about new stuff once everything is fixed…

this

Benjamin.8237:

An official game mode would be amazing, but remember we do have weekly 2v2 competitive tournaments and it’s always the same 20 players who sign up…

becouse its rooted to specific time, isnt advertised wide enough, held on a place where is almost no place to LoS, people feel they cant win anyways so why sign up, etc… you got it imo.
game supported stuff is allways played by more players anyways, aso dont think that it requires much effort to make 3 more courtyard-ish map and 3v3 gamemode.

Sol.4310:

Ristillath.6745:

Team Leaderboards are coming with HoT already got confirmed by anet.

You should inform yourself before posting QQ threads.

PvP community at there finest lol.

Ristillath is right though. there wont be any major changes before exp (beside the promised trait mechanisc changes). sadly exp wont come out as fast as we want though, so OP’s suggestion is really on point! Guild/team leaderboard would encourage competitive gameplay more than everything else. also gonna make top teams easyer to find scrims && more challanging teams would come out of nowhere.

SimpleKingly.5021:

It’s simple. Every successful MMORPG that has a semi-decent esports scene has 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 battle-to-the-death arenas. Just look at WoW. It has a standardized MMO combat system that was created in 2001 and hasn’t changed since, and yet, it still has the biggest PvP scene out of all MMOs. A 3v3 Ranked/Unranked arena minigame could save this game, and help inspire more people to participate in PvP. I say 3v3 only because with downstate, 2v2 wouldn’t really work (cheese double rez specs, 2 hard to rez with 2 cleaving and only 1 rezzing, ect) and 4v4+ would just turn into too long of a thing with most likely more cheese comps. 3v3 arenas seem ideal for GW2 and it’s combat system and would (in my mind) be the most balanced.

Simple change that could be a huge game breaker. Feel free to post your opinions.

gonna support this all day! the game is already balanced around 3v3 fights more than 5v5. also if deathmatch mens to you that dead people cant respawn or respawn is ~1 or 2 minute WAVES then we are on the same openion.

Supreme.3164:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)
3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

Hopefully we’ll see more counterplay to stealth in general when HoT release, even though I still think that current reveal utilities have too high CD for the utility

actually i feel that recent posts are too faar from the original posts theme, which mostly is about the section i commented.

actually i can go with the 1) and 2) couse reveal wont make you come out of stealth at all it just makes you unable to stealth 3) is not really necessary couse cill already slows thieves melle pressure by making them unable to chase the target. implementing 3) gonna make the class even more vulnerable wich is really unnecessary.

the only one things that would be worth comlyining (about d/p thief couse people tend forget to secify what they are talking about) is the ability to stealth other teammates for ages with blasting smoke fields or burning refugee CD —> insane roaming && spike potential with lets say a hammer guard || mesmer. the other one is the unique ‘back cap’ ability provided by the shortbow.
I believe these two major things are mentioned before. Could you people pls consider this and keep the topic prodictive?

Cynz.9437:

if flanking strike was on 15 sec CD they would give thieves warrior lv of HP and invuls~
i don’t think you would like that

they gonna rework FG(and basicly whole acro) mate so, traditional (2-0-0-6-6) s/d playstyle gonna change a bit more like to a nowdays 2-6-0-0-6 one. big damage lower endurance pool… also dont get the new proc traits either… but i think this shoud be discussed in another topic…

Jekkt.6045:

#1: please give us a more biased opinion.

#2: thief gets punished the least for making mistakes out of all the dps classes.

#3: you miss a skill? no problem because it doesn’t go on a long cooldown and even if you want to take initiative as a cooldown the cost of skills is usually not higher than 5-6 seconds worth of initiative.

#4: on thief you use your daze and if you need it just a second after again you can use it without having to wait any single second, see the difference?
.

#1: you did right now. hint: your post shows enormous baised factors good Sir! pls face the fact. also make sure if you want to make kittenefull suggestion you shoud at least master the spec you are talking about.

#2: i cant really see why some people think thisway. all thieves got MELLE bursts so, if you want to do decent damage you need melle range, which doesnt allow any mistakes with a grassy class.

#3: you shoud never see initiative as cooldown becouse it isnt. its much more like ‘mana’ in other MMOs which is required to cast abilitys. luckyly other classes dont have to bother with mana meenagement couse theyr skills run without it, the ones of the thif got do not. even in other games if you dont use your mana wisely you gonna be drained out and find yourself dead in a second (much reference to bad GW1 monks etc..). still think that missing skills does not hurt thieves?

#4: 4 + 4 = 8 | 15 – 8 = 7 < 6 + 3 (by 2) so this means thief cant even fkln try to OP!!!!ASDASD stealth for 2 seconds considering he was on full initiative beforhand (which is really unlikely). here is a totally awesome moment for you to kill him/force big cooldowns

E: cheers && have a fun day

Terrorsquad.2349:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

I respect you as a player but thats totally wrong in any way possible.
How many games do you have on Thief, I wonder? Can you play it well like it should rotation and mechanically wise?

Thief has a much lower error margin than any cele build + dps guard (in 1v1 and teamfights)

Either you need to consider having a good thief in your team to counter opponent’s thief or you must be doing something wrong.

Never had a problem vs comps with thieves at all, except vs very good thieves & teams, who can actually peel for their Thief.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks..

If you’re looking at it this way, I think thief has a good amount of counters, considering over 60-70% of the community is running this in teams and certainly 80%+ in ESL/Top Tier play:

• Cele Shoutbow
• Cele Engi
• DPS Guard
• Cele Ele + 2nd Cele Shoutbow
• Thief and/or Mes (instead of Cele Ele or 2nd Shoutbow)

= that’s already 3 to 4 to 5 counterplayers for one single person, which is the opponent Thief

Thieves can’t fight head-on 1v1 for a point vs 90% of the meta builds while most other classes/builds actually can.

If the problem is that thief can disengage too easily, I would honestly say its in your advantage (match-wise)

Some builds have way less counters, really.

pls read this again and again and agin till you got no doubt left on poster is right

Edit: the only one thing that i find dumb on thieves is the d/p #3’ blind duration. it really shoud be lowered to lets say 2 sec.
the spec patch shoudnt include the shadow rejuv+Patience trait merge. imo those 2 should be entierely removed, else they gonne be abused as kitten.

this faar i had a hope that your posts are rather troll. but day to day… im losing that hope o.O

Lordrosicky.5813:

9, Cancel cast on greatsword is a cheat and an exploit and those exploting it should be banned

this made me lough loud man! thx

Aomine.5012:

An unfair 4 v 5 is not worth playing at all, and the winners do not deserve the win either.

are you kidding ?? i dont deserve to win if some teen kiddo regequits after getting facerolled 2 times in a row? i mean its a suffer for the rest of theyr team, but the leaver is unfortunately on theyr side, not on mine. leaver punishment is what solvs your problem not the resign mate…

Ignavia.7420:

they should rather reenable dishonor.

so much tears man :’D. i give you a point for being high reward low risk but, even a half legged beaver is able to interript a skill with 2 sec cast on a stabilityless class. the point is that the iterrupted skills shoud have way more cd on them at least lets say 1/4 of the original cd + the 3 sec. (stow weapon shoud reamain 3)
actually other warrior builds than shoutbow need the health from the signet you conseder op. what you want is to reduce the heal of the shouts and the base hp pool of the build.

also seeing that some ppl consider all the meta builds eZ to play && LBranger requires 2x more skill than DD ele or S/d thief (which are obviously top 7 eZ to play) makes me a bit sad… #PermaInvulnMesmers. I fear there are mad geniusses in this game mastering all the professions. PEOPLE WE HAVE TO L2P!!!!!

i rater wait 3 more minutes in a dramaticly one sided game to lose ~3x a day than have red resign days returned…

i also suggested something like this in an other topic. i agree this would help with the playerbase problem. the toxicity can be reduced with some mechanics like:
- ‘free’ players are forced to play with each other till rank 30
- people with more than 5% leave percentage become "leaver"s and are forced to play each other till they fall out again of the 5%
etc…. you got the idea.

dear devs. why do you ignore/not use many of the brilliant stuff you invented in gw1??
UI customization, Build templates, Hard mode dungeons(yasss PvE), andy many more
they are good and many people are asking for them. They are like lost treasures in your OWN garden, lets dig ‘em out!
hell most of the pvp modes could be ported and the whole community would be happy for ever!
i know everyone got a little genius working inside with many many ideas, but what’s good is good… why thorw it away?

you came up with stronghold, you have many hours of hard work in it… but imo it gonna fall out of your hands. you are struggling to balance conquest, now you feel you can handle to balance a gamemode with this big complexity that stronghold has along the conquest stuff. I really hope you gonna succeed and got all the good wishes, but i cant really understand. if you want gvg why dont go with something like in gw1? it was so simple, original and awesome (and also your work).

Nova Stiker.8396:

I really like the mode, I’m also laughing at all the QQ posters that aren’t good enough to understand objective based PvP.

Pros:

• The map and mode.
• Fighting a Guild Lord.
• Treb is very handy.
• Drinking booze at the bar, a very much YES!

Cons:

• Archers are useless, Guards are easily handled by players.
• Guards are super squishy, making it hard (pointless) to defend them.
• The treb is very handy at times but hard to utilize without a teleport.

Suggestions:

• Limit the amount of NPC’s that are summoned on the field. This will allow balancing NPC’s to be much easier.
• Clean up pushing and defend objectives.
• Drop the skritt suicide bomber concept completely. Have a Guild Fighter summon instead that can cast vulnerability on the gate, allowing players and the NPC to damage the gate. This way, you can’t have a single Bomber completely destroy a gate if left alone for 15 seconds. Not to mention pushing NPC’s ONLY rewards supporting players, having a glassy power house wailing on the gate allows more risk and reward plus build variation.
• Add a new NPC, Guild Protectors. These guys will run to guard supply, attack foes at the supplies and supply buffs. They will run to Mist Essence once the 30 second timer starts to secure that position. They don’t do much damage, have no CC but are tanky and supportive.
• Instead of a Tengu Archer, have a Guild Hunter that will go after Guild Protectors and guards. They will clean up any Guild Protectors at their post before moving to the gate. Give it Barrage, lastly, unless the gate has vulnerability, Guild Hunters will wait at the gate.
• Give NPC’s guild armor, weapons and colors to the premades team.
• “Victory or Death!” Don’t end matches on a timer. L-A-M-E.
• Remove the treb, its role is too limited and doesn’t add much in terms of objectives.
• Give NPC’s the ability to move and attack.

You have to do more with the NPC’s other than hope that the enemy team doesn’t get to them in time.

wanted to post something like this. +1!! also make the ‘guild Fighter’ cost like 5 supps.

Saiyan.1704:

I like your ideas MadVision, especially in regards to the reward system.

:3

Saiyan.1704:

• Free entrance to HotM && pvp (lock trading post & inventory entirely)
  No – Some players enter HotM just for the trading post and bank convenience.
  We want the Mists to be better not worse!

what do you mean with that? i see no problem with ppl banking there. they dont effect anything beside there are more ppl wo you can chat while forced to wait there in the que.

with the free entry to HotM i meant that ppl can download the sPvP part of the game for free and play it (conquest + stronghold?) w/o any potential to get skins/items/anything that makes you something in FashionWars2 unless they get the full version. its is a dramatic but vaible way to increse the poor playerbase.
ofc this gonna lead to some problems. more trolls. more griefers. more spammers. more toxic community. which can be partly solved by decresing some of the rights of ‘free’ players until they earn a specific rank/play’d x hrs/you got it… (example: they are forced to fight each other until they reach r30 /etc…)

edit:

four words:

bring back Heroes’ Ascent

I REALLY loved that gamemode in gw1 and think it would be really fun in gw2 too. The 6man team (early gw1’s) would fit gw2’s teamsizes too. straight forward gamemodes that are still strategic! shame they left it out from the second game

video show nothing new. thx for post though!

what you need:
- free entrace to HotM && pvp (lock trading post & inventory entierly)
- MMR based ladderboards with ingame list and visible MMR.
- automated tournaments with divisions <— do gem revards.
- separate PvP and PvE abilityes (like C&D) and traits to make balance easyer.
- PvP balancing/development team who works faster than 6 monts/patch
- pure Solo and pure 5 man que (you can allways find +3 in town if you are with a mate. it even worked in gw1 where you had 8 man teams.)
- forget mobas. GW2 isnt a moba or anything like it. its original its unique. so forget Stronghold. try to focus on less complex objectives like you did in gw1(gj there).
- add free camera to spectator mode so events cant actually streemaed correctly. those viev points are just horrible.
- implement spectator mode. (the option to spectate someone on theyr own vievpoint in like a ranked/unranked game)
- replace/add revard tracks with ones last ~5… 10x the time to complete can differ.<— add meaningful revards (idc can be bunch of laurels/random exotic iteam from a list/skinns like glorious/etc.. you got the idea) this shoud lure more casual ppl into pvp

just some ideas that came @first out of my mind. so as you guessed a lot of things are needed..

Supreme.3164:

No matter what game you play, no matter what genre you like, no matter who makes a game, no matter if a game is old or new, one thing stays the same. Some people seem to live to complain.

When they are done griping about content they feel the need to flame other people’s posts. When they are done trying to make themselves look good (by putting down others), they complain about something else.

So what you do? pls re-read your post and jusge yourself…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Food-for-thought-for-ArenaNet/first

guess this explayns everything. happy gaming cya.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

If there’s some way to help the devs to fix this problem, I’d be happy to help.

they would feel kinda shameful if they had to ask for help. but guess its time.

(+8days! still there! fixit!)

philheat.3956:

Hi

I find very useful you guys ….
you should ask to ROM, Helseth, Tage, Phantaram etc. to help you to try this new stuff.
… won’t wait 6 months to have super broken stuff fixed.

this!!!!…

you can even ask me….. ego/10

Zunami.8560:

Zerker can kill downed faster than most people can stomp opponents. While condition builds can just apply conditions on the downed and wait him out. Celestial and bunker builds have the hardest time downing opponents.

not sure if serious…

- also waiting for more reasonable thoughts besde “its not your job to stomp as zerker”

ZeftheWicked.3076:

requires some investments. I’m very fond of downstate tactics and my character still being a threat in downstate.

my character offers the same but i still think this is something the community dos’nt need… thxvm for your post.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

MadVisions.4529:

darres.8203:

MadVisions.4529:

darres.8203:

Cegi.4385:

+5 days. still there. FIXIT!

more like + 2 years

hint: post is 5 days old….

hint the bug has been here since the dawn of gw2

people have been asking for this fix for a long time now, nothing here u mentioned is new

hint#2 everyone knows this && about the bug. topic is for keeping it in the face of the devs.

hint#3 everyone knows that everyone knows this except the devs
The devs still need to see this topic on the top of the pvp forums (they probably never visit these forums), so they can experience the agony that 0.01% of the gw2 community is going trough. Because the other 99.99% is abusing this intentionally, or by mistake.

darres.8203:

MadVisions.4529:

darres.8203:

Cegi.4385:

+5 days. still there. FIXIT!

more like + 2 years

hint: post is 5 days old….

hint the bug has been here since the dawn of gw2

people have been asking for this fix for a long time now, nothing here u mentioned is new

hint#2 everyone knows this && about the bug. topic is for keeping it in the face of the devs.

darres.8203:

Cegi.4385:

+5 days. still there. FIXIT!

more like + 2 years

hint: post is 5 days old….

imo downstate should be an option for a player to get helped out by other players after failing miseraby and get rez’d. Im not fine though with the idea that ‘tryhard’ people are able to down you from 50% hp after you cheese mode downed them esepecially if you are a zerker. this situations can leed to make you disengage to recover, let them decap in DOWNSTATE or yolo dps/stomp till mby you get downed too and let the wheel decide who got more air/fire proc on the ground or whose teammate arrives first. (or pet…)
the conception with downstate skills is really fine. they help you to stay alive a bit more if timed properely(thats what downstate is for…). im even fine with dealing some damage in downstate to help you tag someone on who you may rally somedays. but the fact that zerker classes or even some other ones got insane amount of downstate pressure make this system flawed. hell some builds got more damage output on the ground than on two 2 legs.
this is the reason too why 2v1 ing amasingly hard/inposible in most situations.. you down one player he deals 1x k dmg to you from ground while you are bussy with the other kiddo… this shoudnt be posible.

my sollution: make air+fire unable to proc in downstate(traits are ok i guess they are character based) compensate this with some buff to the survival skills.

or even replace every autohit ability with “thorw dust”—> blinds for 2 sec, deals 500 dmg, 4sec cd…

besic hints:
evade basilisk venom. hit after flanking strike/disabling strike. if they meenage to hit flanking try to evade larcenous strike. stay in aoe. blinding is one of theyr weekest spot. stack immob after they used heal. if you got ranged pressure you can force them to make some unnecessary evades. missing a steal hurts them a lot, pressure afterwards. dont eate cluster bombs. attack/leap/teleport after they infiltrator’s return’d. cast kittens on shadow return point while you pressure(like necro marks/cluster bomb/etc…)

if you are not 1v1 ing them or you are not a thief yourself or a medigua or some sneaky kitteno then the best idea is to find a less slippery target. maybe burst them if they open on you.

edit: dont worry too much… acrobatics nerf is coming in specialisation patch. no more FG.. less endurance less evades… and i gonna cry…alot….

op’s blocklist size be like.: http://www.history.com/images/media/video/history_the_universe_03_volume_sf_1160164/History_The_Universe_03_Volume_SF_still_624x352.jpg

make adrenaline gain like a signet’s passive and add ~5sec cd to the trait, so if you use an adrenaline skill and if trait is off CD it clenses if you got condis and goes for 5sec cd where passive does not work.

E: i think trait is fine though

+1 day. still there. fixit!!

its more than clear that (most) devs didnt master the classes they are working on or dont even play it. how should they balance something that they are not familiar with? Anet should hire ppl to balance who are actually playing the game and got a good understanding of the current problems not the ones who play 0-24 League that influences them to make Stronghold like this doublekitten.

fix air immob asap! kkthx

agreed /free bump

Maugetarr.6823:

This bugged me also. If endless stamina were 50% instead of 20% it would be a decent trait. Before everyone jumps on saying “50% OP!,” this would simply be a 50% increase to the effectiveness of vigor. So if standard endurance recharge is 5 per second, regular vigor is 10, and 50% would be 12.5. This would mean that since it takes 50 endurance to dodge, you’d get one dodge every 4 seconds instead of every 5. This is just 1 extra dodge every 20 seconds, assuming 100% vigor uptime.

was thinking about the same lately. this seems to bee the change we need

zapv.8051:

Yes it is skillful play, other people will be able to counter your dodge spam by removing vigor. This means they will actually be able to do something about the massive amount of evades you will still have. Instant endurance regen isn’t skillful play at all. There is nothing the person you are fighting can do to counter you. That is the opposite of skillful play.

Not sure if you got the point. having bigger endurance pool on s/d is needed, do you even play the class? try to play a match w/o acro traitline. also “There is nothing the person you are fighting can do to counter you.” smells a bit. if s/d cannot be countered so winns all 1v1s then i missed something.
dont forget that you dont have on demand stealth so you are weaker against ranged pressure. thats what’s eating up a huge chunk of endurance.

Cynz.9437:

you forgot crit line, that will be obsolete once changes go live~

really true. forgotten about that

for the ppl who dont know what i’m talking about: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-thief-acrobats-specialization1.jpg

s/d thieves are barely used nowdays becouse of the burst potential of d/p. however we dont know the elite spec from thief jet i fear the acro changes gonna dropp s/d even more behind.
acro was chosen by many(if not all) s/d’s becouse the synergy between FG(feline grace), vigorous recovery, power of inertia, 30% boon duaration and the s/d playstyle is really beneficial.
with the rework you lose most of this. you lose FG, inertia, boon duration. the main problem with this rework is the following:
your endurance pool is grately reduced becouse of the new FG, from ~3 dodges to 2. the new FG helps you in getting more vigor uptime which is highly needed becouse of the loss of 30%boon duration. right now s/d got almost perma vigor uptime if all done properely so all i see here new FG gives little to noothing but a huge nerf.

okokok.. thats enough crying on what you ‘lose’. lets talk about what you get:

#1: the choice between vigorous recovery and pain response.
#2: master trits:
-guarded initiation. this looks good after seeing hybrid guardian ticking 3k burns + 2k bleeds :‘) but i suggest lowering the 100% treshold to 95% couse of the numerous aoe fields on the ground like from warriors longbow which gonna mke this really hard to proc in a teamfight.
-swindler’s equilibrium: well this seems really powerful if not op. but id rather have old FG back than having this… ;-(

and the good stuff is over for me…:
- hard to catch rework!!!! yayyy i was really happy when i saw this @ the first time but i dont like it anymore. the fact that this has become a free stunberak is really nice but the endurance refilling portion. its clear that after we lose FGs endurance regain we need to get that elsewhere. this trait offers this, but its not in your hand. you cant mind controll you opponent to stun you to get endurance when needed also there are a lot of tiny cc-abilitys that counter this trait completely like d/p thiefs #4 etc. so i gonna take swindler’s equilibrium willingly over this any time.

-dont stop: seems really good at first look, but it has the same flawe than hard to catch. its not in your hand. basicly this trait offers you an autoattack evasion every few seconds, everyone gonna proc it on you before using meaningful abilitys. dont missunderstand me this trait is strong but i dont like the fact that its not user controlled.

endless stamina:
regaining endurance for an evade:
with no vigor: 10sec
with vigor: 5sec
with vigor+ endless stamina: 4.54? sec
so this replaces a 10% dmg trait and helps me get my evade 0,45sec faster back… thx

summary:
what you lose:
-1/3 of endurance pool (also leeds into less swiftness from minor trait)
-damage from ~4 or 5 stack might + fluid strikes(10%)
-30% boon duration
-vigor or pain response

what you get:
-2 random proc traits that are good though.
-faster steal recharge with swindler’s (op?)
-0,45 sec faster evade regain(if you got vigor)

i see acro suffering from a meaningful nerf while other traitlines are getting buffed. Karl on stream said that behind the FG change lies the idea of “promoting skillful play”. (well it has come clear that Karl does not even know how some current traits work.. do you even thief?!?!?) i dont see how nerfing one of the highest skill cap fun to play build promotes skillful play but sure you do. #random proc promotes skillful play

Cogbyrn.7283:

How do you reconcile the 15v15 meta with the sPvP 5v5, PvE, and WvW (which is probably similar to 15v15 for the most part, maybe) metas? It’s adding complexity to their balancing equation, which I believe already suffers from analysis paralysis and causes them to only push more impactful changes once in a great while.

well gw1 devs had a sollution. many skills had a pvp version which was used in place of the original one when entering the pvp world(hotm here). this existd in gw2 too but its used in much less cases(like c&d got ~half the dmg).

from gw1 wiki: Player versus Player (PvP) is a style of gameplay that ( ….. ) . As balance is a concern in PvP, the PvP effect causes many skills to be weaker in competitive play than in PvE.

my top 5:
- 6month balancing patch (root of most of the problems)
- broken leaderboard (pure MMR system pls)
- no soloq (yes…)
- air immob (still there… fix pls)
- stronghold being next pvp mode (yes i dont like it… no real gvg… no real moba)

edit:
+1: -devs who design specialisations dont even play the kittening classes… guess whats gonna happen

you can predict instant damage skills coming and evade it. and yes its a gamble, then what?