Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

In case you haven’t noticed, people have been throwing GW2 under the bus since day one for being too easy. Might have something to do with why HoT is what it is.

HoT being what it is isn’t the answer to the original game being too easy.

HoT’s problems have nothing to do with its level of difficulty.

I’m amazed that people keep reducing the problems with HoT to people complaining about the difficulty.

Can’t you people think of another way to deflect HoT’s problems onto the discontented players? This is getting as stale as an old Tyria map.

Obtena.7952:

Hold on … so voracious alt players would be more likely to play multiple times through 15 maps of Core Tyria-like content than 4 maps of HoT-like content? If there is anything MORE stale than 4 maps of HoT-like content, it’s 15 maps of Core-like content. Of course, it depends on who’s behind the keyboard but quantity of maps is not relevant, unless of course the goal was to hide poor, easy content behind an expanse of shiny looking visuals akin to a MMO scenery museum… Oh, I sort of described what Core feels like right there.

False dichotomy. It doesn’t have to be either 4 HoT-like maps or 15 Tyria-like maps. There’s a whole range of possibilities beyond those two.

Sticking to the idea of 15 maps, how about: 11 Tyria-like maps AND 4 HoT type maps. Or 15 maps of increasing difficulty with meta event maps thrown in at some interval as the story advances the player through the maps.

Or maybe 15 maps is a bit too much to ask. Let’s have 8 then, half of them being HoT-like driven by meta events, and 4 are just as “hard” but offering a Tyria-like exploration options and events.

I find it quite amusing how people are throwing the original GW2 under the bus in a futile attempt to assault people’s opinions on HoT. It makes me wonder why they even played “poor”, “easy”, “stale” GW2 at all. And it also makes me wonder what makes them think opinions can be argued with. My perception of the luke-warm excrement that is HoT will not budge because of anything someone writes. ANet is the only party that can change it, by effecting change in HoT.

Actually, I don’t get the problem. I’ve been doing WvW to fill in Hero Challenges in HoT to help with map completion of maps I didn’t want to go back to anymore, and found that to be pretty fast and easy. I easily made 50 Proof of Heroics per hour. Granted, I used every world XP boost I could muster.

Obtena.7952:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

Obtena.7952:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Obtena.7952:

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?

The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.

No it’s not. A gate limits your progress. Those aren’t gates.

That’s not the definition of a gate. A gate limits access to something, not necessarily progress.

Then having gates in MMO’s isn’t really a problem in the first place because you can define almost everything as a gate, including:

1. Levels
2. Not starting out with gold
3. Not knowing how to play
4. Not having instance access to all content

You’re complaint is quite ridiculous in the context you define ‘gates’; ONLY complain about the gates you encounter in HoT, and not any of MANY MORE you had to overcome in Core? You’re arguments just aren’t logical.

The issue with gates like levels, is as you pass them, your character gets stronger, you get more abilities, it actually has a reward for completing the gate, and the gate can be completed in a reasonable amount of time.

Masteries, on the other hand… it’s a grind for a skill that you barely use. The grind takes a VERY long time, and the content is NOT engaging at all. In core tyria you had a BUNCH of maps to level on, in HOT you have…. 4. That’s the problem, it’s not the grind, it’s the fact you feel the grind.

Engaging or not, the definition the poster uses for a gate makes Masteries the same kind of gate as anything else that limits your progress, like levels, lacking gold, or basically ANYTHING you have to play to earn or learn about the game. If the poster had a more reasonable definition for a gate, he wouldn’t look so ridiculous using it as a premise to complain about GW2.

The term gating is only thrown at something if what it take to surmount the gating mechanism is something significant. No one will scream: “I’m being distance-gated!” if something they want is a few feet away.

Also, the term isn’t used if there’s already a more established term for the type of gating. There’s a specific term for experience gating: “level requirement”. There’s also a specific term for gold gating: “price”, or “cost”.

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Xupok Moonheart.9412:

I have tried to stick it out in HoT, character after character, race after race, seriously trying to find the fun in the game, but in the end just doing what is needed, as I struggled with my inner feelings and combating the sensations that others will not easily abandon new content.. I was utterly disappointed to find, after only a few months play, the zones to be dead in my EU world server.. constantly receiving message to change maps to only find it popping up again after less than 5min in the ‘more populated’ map.. One has to critically wonder about the design idea, although true in nature and grand on paper, most people just wont play or look for pug groups.
Countless times I have heard good friends go completely crazy on TS, even helping them, outside of story-mode did not have the desired effect and those in the guild who already completed their Achievement points in the areas are not much interested to run through grinding content unless they are completely bored or have no other achi’s to hunt. Sadly I really feel ArenaNet will abnegate any major changes to accommodate the community at large and change the mechanics of current state of the game as it seems the original plan to back Guilds and community play is here to stay, although I try to believe myself wrong on this matter nothing seems clear if any PvE group based focused content will get any easier. Pity for solo/semi-solo players like myself but hey, there are many more things to do, until all achievements are done at least.
We can only hope.

That’s what tends to happen when players rush through content or decide not to do certain aspects (e.g. collections) because they don’t enjoy them. Had they released 15+ maps like core Tyria, we’d still be in the same condition as we are now. Of course what you’re seeing here is nothing new and happens in every MMO.

Except if they released a larger number of maps like in core Tyria, it’s unlikely they would all be mostly-meta maps. This would mean there would likely be more things for solo or small group players to do in a not very full map.

Except they would have exhausted all content by this point in time or sooner which was the point I was making.

That’s not how it works for a subset of voracious alt players.

They play everything with one character. Then they play everything with the next character. Etc. Etc.

There’s a certain breakpoint for amount of content, different for every individual, where there’s enough content that starting the process anew, the content will feel fresh enough to keep the player interested. Obviously, if there were a million maps, no one would think the first map had become stale after playing all million of them and then starting on a new character. With just 4 maps, a great many players will feel the staleness set in very early in their replay cycles. Fifteen maps will be a decent number for far more players than just a measly 4 maps.

Doing one map over and over is a grind. Especially if the map itself consists of doing the same thing several times and it’s not very interesting to begin with.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

There are only 4 zones, with events on a constant, unchanging schedule. This gets old very fast.

And searching for an event and if you actually need it for a collection, praying that is on, is so much better? Ever tried doing a legendary precursor collection?

That’s absolutely not better. I did the tier 1 collection for Dawn. It was horrible, easily one of the most boring things I did in this game.

Another mark against HoT.

But if the old maps were on a schedule, like HoT maps, there wouldn’t be a problem with those collections if you need specific events. I still think it was a huge mistake to remove Orr Temple events from the daily schedule then add so many collection achievements on those. You might hate the 2-hour timers of HoT but the <uncertain amount of time> timer on Orr Temples is much much worse.

Of course there would be a problem. I would have to adjust my playing times to that schedule. That is actually my #1 complaint with HoT, with some distance. The schedules are what kills HoT for me.

The problem with those precursor hunt events isn’t that they’re not on a schedule, the problem is that they’re shopping lists of completely trivial tasks that you can’t even do when you want to do them. A schedule would make it more predictable, but they would still be shopping lists of completely trivial tasks that you can’t even do when you want to do them.

ProtoGunner.4953:

What is grind to you? I was farming for Astralaria and doing DS the same time. Stacked up all possible XP boosters and did about 1 level per DS run. Since every crap in this game gives XP why do you need to ‘grind’? Alternate maps, do some Central Tyria and it just becomes pretty natural. After all, you do something in this game. Interpret everything as grind if you want. I don’t.

And just how many DS runs did you do? An event cycle that boring and repetitive feels like a grind to me about halfway through the first run. The monotonous blend of combat sounds of dozens of players ripping into endless streams of indistinguishable monsters during the zergy escorts lulled me to sleep. Literally. I had to shake the cobwebs from my head and go do something else. I ended up exploring the place, behind the 3 fronts.

I find it a grind because you have nowhere to go except those 4 maps, and no decent options for xp other than to play the meta events. And when I say 4 maps, I’m being generous. Dragon’s Stand is a big joke. Exploring it takes no time at all and I found it to be easier than Orr. The only reason I didn’t complete it in just a single run of the event was the timer, but lucky for me I only missed some hero points. An hour in EotM fixed that. Also pretty boring, but I didn’t need to check my watch to get into that and it had some mildly interesting asides when I ran off to fight stragglers from other servers.

To compare, I maxed my Tyrian masteries on a new character. It started at level 1. I played it until it was 80 and then I started on the masteries. This character didn’t repeat a thing. I had maxed the masteries when I was about 80% done with world completion.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

Maybe Im just not as burned out as you people. Im currently leveling up my 4th alt, he is at lvl55 with no books used. I’m just moving around following the story, grabbing hearts and hero points along the way, collecting mats etc. Feels very natural and if the vista is boring you just skip it and still get credit for it. Veterans who played it all 50 times over or people who simply have way too much spare time may disagree with me.

And why can’t you do the same in HoT? You can move around and follow the story, follow the events, gather mats, mastery insights and hero points in the process. What’s so unnatural in HoT zones that is in core tyria?

There are only 4 zones, with events on a constant, unchanging schedule. This gets old very fast.

1, you don’t have to do the meta, you can just play the game as you do in tyria- dip into events as you want.
2. or you could have zones like in other game expansions, where you play through the new zones once, do the quest line once, then repeat dailies while ignoring the old zones that are dead because of scaling.

Or we could have been presented with a respectable number of new zones instead of the pittance we got.

maddoctor.2738:

There are only 4 zones, with events on a constant, unchanging schedule. This gets old very fast.

And searching for an event and if you actually need it for a collection, praying that is on, is so much better? Ever tried doing a legendary precursor collection?

That’s absolutely not better. I did the tier 1 collection for Dawn. It was horrible, easily one of the most boring things I did in this game.

Another mark against HoT.

Obtena.7952:

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?

The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.

No it’s not. A gate limits your progress. Those aren’t gates.

That’s not the definition of a gate. A gate limits access to something, not necessarily progress.

I wish the chak weapons would just die.

maddoctor.2738:

So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?

The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.

That annoyed me greatly, but I pressed on.

Then I became aware of these meta cycles, participation in which demanded things of me that a game, a form of light entertainment, has no business demanding of me.

That was insufferable, so I left HoT. I returned 2 months later because I decided I did want to fully unlock the specializations for my characters. And from there I decided to complete the story because… well, I stuck with it through all of Living World season 2 and I wanted to see it through till the end. I explored a bit more of the maps with a character that needed more than a handful of hero challenges because it hadn’t finished all of Tyria yet.

And the more I see of it, the more annoyances I run into.

maddoctor.2738:

If you never repeat content in central tyria you won’t get anything of value. You will always repeat pieces of content of central tyria if you want to earn any worthwhile rewards. The latest addition of map rewards helps a lot, but those who seek them actually repeat content. World Bosses? Dungeons? Sure you can level up to 80 without repeating content but you won’t have much to show for it.

I repeat content all the time, whatever gave you the idea that I didn’t? All I’m saying is, you don’t need to obsessively repeat a tiny amount of content to level to 80. You can, but that’s a choice, not an obligation.

You keep dragging all kinds of things into the discussion that don’t apply to my position in it. I’m going to stop respond to that because it’s pointless and only leads to huge posts with nothing of value.

1) Levelling a character to the max in Tyria can be done by partaking of some bits from a huge pool of content.
2) Levelling HoT masteries requires your choice of an amount of characters to repeat a tiny amount of content.

Therefore Tyria is better.

Of course, the only thing that really matters is completely apparent when we strip away even more. Forget about the levelling, ignore the masteries, and what we’re left with is that:

1) Tyria offers a huge pool of content.
1) HoT offers a tiny amount of content.

I’m in group 2, obsessively so.

Then that’s why you think it’s a grind. Not everyone feels the same though. Not everyone wants to max every zone they visit on their first try.

When they first announced the mastery system they said it was going to have a certain feeling, like Metroid. I haven’t played Metroid, but I’ve played games like Assassin’s Creed and the latest Tomb Raider. In both games there are places you simply can’t reach until you earn some specific items or skills, like a grappling hook or a skill that allows you to jump further. You “see” a path, or even a treasure chest or an achievement item that you cannot obtain because you are gated by the skill/item and your zone completion is at 90% and can’t get the last bits. It can be frustrating sometimes, but at least in an MMORPG that I use multiple characters I don’t care about that.[/quote]
I’ve never heard of Metroid, I vaguely recall that Assassin’s Creed is supposed to be a game. I’ve never played Tomb Raider. I’ve played 2 other “real” games (not counting whimsical browser stuff) besides games in the GW franchise since GW first came out. The other games don’t compare at all. My only frame of reference for HoT, is GW2 the original, and these roadblocks are not part of that. I’m willing to work around them, I don’t consider them a problem. What I do consider to be a problem is the extremely slow rate of XP gain if you don’t plug yourself into the meta events, which is something that’s just not happening for me.

maddoctor.2738:

You do know that are 5 zones for levels 1-15 right? Which means if you make more than 5 characters you WILL repeat content? Or you will repeat it even with less characters if you make same race characters or you go to another starting zone to get some extra experience to get to 15 so you can move on.

Who made this about the general principle of repeating content? Certainly not I. All I mentioned was that the repetition required in HoT to max the masteries is immense.

Of course you’re going to repeat content if you’re replaying the same game, duh… Anyone to whom repetition of content is an absolute turn-off, won’t last long in this game. And along came HoT… replaying a pathetically tiny amount of content numerous times to accomplish some goal or another, that’s problematic to me though, especially if that content is presented in a terribly unwelcoming manner.

And even if you’re not interested in that goal, what else are you going to do in HoT except to repeat the ridiculously tiny amount of content? If you’re not repeating it ad nauseam for masteries, and some people apparently don’t because they don’t have the mastery points to make use of the XP, you’re repeating it for the rewards. The moment you stop repeating it, you’ve stopped playing HoT. Repetition is fine, if there’s a huge amount of content to go over before starting your next iteration. That’s what kept me playing in the original game. It doesn’t work for the amount presented by HoT.

maddoctor.2738:

Not to mention the REAL way to earn exp in Core Tyria was always running Dungeons. Repeat them as long as it takes until you are 80.

Now you really lost me. I’ve never played a dungeon for experience, ever. I’m getting absolutely flabbergasted by how troublesome this “level 80” has been for you all this time. When I play a character through the game, he starts at level 1, and they’re level 80 well before I get to Fort Trinity. Every. Single. Time. Just open world play and story instances, no rushing, just playing.

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t know how you play the game, but yes if you are playing a character once a month the yes it won’t feel like repetition. I like to play my characters more often.

I play almost daily, although I’ve had long stretches of just logging in for dailies. Levelling characters doesn’t feel like repetition to me because I don’t rush from playing one character through the game to the next. I don’t even call it levelling, because that’s not what I’m doing, levelling is a side-effect of playing. That’s what I do: I play characters through the game. With every character that finishes, the need to start more of them diminishes, because I just gained another character to play my chosen level 80 content with. And when I play another character through the game, that’s never an exclusive use of my time in the game. I still log on to my other characters regularly as well, to do this or that, whatever strikes my fancy. Well, not all of them, there are always some on extended leaves of absence because I grow tired of their class, or their voice acting, or whatever.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

The comparison we’re making is unfair at its base because we’re comparing character based and account based progression.

Of course the more characters you have the better the HoT mastery system becomes.

Only if you don’t mind there being no more progress to be made with subsequent characters. Lots of people like making progress with characters. But masteries were never about progress anyway. They’re about removing the roadblocks they put in place to stop people from posting full HoT playthroughs on the internet on release day. Without mastery blocking, there would’ve been dozens. There’s just that little content.Yes, I’m that cynical, but truthfully, there’s really not a single mastery that feels like progress to me.

maddoctor.2738:

What does map completion have to do with anything? Map completion isn’t the only thing that gives experience. And in fact it’s not needed at all to level up.

But it’s there and it’ll get you to max level without needing to “grind” through repetitive content, whereas it’s absolutely impossible to max HoT masteries without repeating content.

maddoctor.2738:

I have 8 level 80s and only 5 of them have 100% map exploration. That doesn’t mean I didn’t repeat the same thing over and over for my characters that got to 80, in fact I repeated the same content multiple times to level them.

Of course you’re repeating things. The point is, it will take a single character ridiculous amounts of repetition to max the HoT masteries, while levelling up in Tyria doesn’t even require a single character to play anywhere near all of the content in Tyria.

HoT requires you play an insultingly small amount of content repetitively. Tyria lets you pick parts of a large amount of content.

maddoctor.2738:

Good for you if you didn’t repeat anything but 7 map completions in 3 years means you didn’t go for those completions, I got my 5 in the first year.

When I make a new character, I go for it, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

maddoctor.2738:

Being “gated” from content because you cannot use a Nuhoch Wallow isn’t as bad as being “gated” because you don’t have a high enough level.

Well, what can I say… I guess no two players are alike. My feelings couldn’t be further from those sentiments.

I’ve never ever been gated because of a character’s level. Levels in Tyria come well ahead of the need for them if you play the game instead of rushing through it. All the non-functioning map elements in VB really irritated me though. It made me put the game away for 2 months, because, not being willing to submit myself to ANet’s itinerary demands, levelling masteries is very slow in HoT.

maddoctor.2738:

In other words, since masteries are account bound, you can get them with multiple characters as you play in the maguuma, there is no rush to earn them all in your first run in there, nor there is any kind of rush to re-acquire your masteries with each character. On the other hand, getting to 80 is absolutely essential to progress the most important parts of the game (and it’s character bound no less)

I agree about the account bound masteries being a good thing. It made VB a lot less nerve-grating on my second character. I can’t even get my head around your level 80 obsession though. Level 80 just happens and if it doesn’t because you feel the need to rush toward some specific content, levelling tomes have been around for years now, ridiculous amounts of them, around every corner. I have enough tomes to instantly level 9 character to level 80, and I’ve done nothing to specifically pursue them, they just turn up at every corner. If I had pursued them, I’d probably have twice as many. ANet has dealt adequately with the complaint that levelling to 80 is dreary and if you have done 5 map completions in the first year, I’d be surprised to learn that you haven’t gotten at least as many tomes as I have over time.

maddoctor.2738:

I think the entire idea of masteries being a grind comes from 3 types of players:
1. Those who rush through and avoid all the content, mostly because they want to follow the storyline and finish it ASAP. I’ll remind those, you can’t do that with the PS either.
2. Those who want to 100% a zone before moving to the next, for those I’ll remind them that to 100% core tyria maps you must also fill the Hearts. Filling all the hearts in a zone, or progressing a new outpost in VB? I’d take the outpost personally but others might take the hearts.
3. Those who want every single mastery as soon as possible, even if they don’t play in HoT maps. I’ve read it so many times about people who hate HoT maps and yet they complain about not getting their masteries in core tyria as if there are mushrooms or updrafts in core tyria.

I’m in group 2, obsessively so. In central Tyria, if I set foot in an area for whatever reason, I generally don’t leave until I completed it. That’s why I absolutely loathe the ridiculous masteries. They’re not progression, they’re roadblock removal, and I have the feeling that I feel about roadblocks much the same as how you feel about being blocked from doing something because of not being level 80.

What does that exactly entail, by the way, progressing an outpost in VB? Is that something you need to set an alarm for?

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

I have no idea how you play the game, but I haven’t seen any vista more than 7 times in 3.5 years. (Except the ones in the cities when I those for dailies.) And between any one of those viewings I’ve played the whole of Tyria, which takes quite a lot of time. Repeating something with a frequency of once every 6 months on average, that’s not a play style that feels repetitive to me. Especially because it’s not all I’ve been doing in the game by a long shot. Every time I play a new character through the game, it feels like quite a long time ago since the previous one.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Collecting XP for HoT mastery is more grindy than collecting XP to get to 80. Simply because there’s nowhere near enough content to max masteries. I dare say there’s nowhere near half of what you need to max it, or even a third.

Only in reality it’s not. Unless you say 1 level = 1 mastery or something like that. No matter how much content you have to get to 80 you WILL repeat it many times, especially with more characters, while with masteries you do it once and it’s over.

The comparison we’re making is unfair at its base because we’re comparing character based and account based progression. From a single character point of view, Tyria levelling isn’t grindy while HoT mastery levelling is quite grindy. From a multiple character point of view, it gets muddled. For me, Tyria is still not grindy, because by the time I’m having a go at another character, it’s been months since I played any particular part of the game I’m replaying. That’s because it takes me a very long time to exhaust the Tyria content with every character. I’ve done I think 7 map completions, and none of the areas I’ve cleared have ever been a grind. Doing an area and doing it again 3 or 4 months later? That’s not a grind. The grind only comes into play if you feel the need to rush to 80 for some purpose and don’t have access to levelling consumables. It’s not the game that’s grindy, it’s the play style people pick for themselves.

My 7 Tyria completions have taken me about 3 years. Were I to focus on the HoT content and do 7 HoT completions, meaning story and completing all areas, it would take me no more than 2 months. That’s doing one area every 2 days, and that’s allowing for far more time than I’d need if I played focussed. VB map completion can easily be cleared in around 2 hours, depending on at which point you enter the cycle. I know this is true, because I did it with my second character. I’m reserving 2 days for it in my 2 month estimate, because I’d probably want to stop to smell the roses at some points, and participate in events if the meta progression happens to be in synch with my playing times. The first play-through takes significantly longer anyway, exactly because of a lack of the masteries this whole thing is about. VB is a tiny, tiny map if you know your way around it and you have access to all the movement related masteries.

maddoctor.2738:

Would it be better if you needed half the exp you need to level a mastery but make it character bound? I’d say it would cause an uproar. 1/4 of the experience? Still an uproar. Making them account bound was the right choice and it lessens the grind by a huge amount.

Yeah, that would be bad. Because once you’re used to the shortcuts the mastery allow you to take, you probably won’t be able to stomach playing without them anymore. That’s because the masteries don’t increase your ability, they take away roadblocks. That’s an incredibly negative implementation of the levelling concept, by the way. Upon entering VB for the very first time, there are map elements you can’t use at every corner, and that first impression made the game feel very unwelcoming. The first thing about the new areas I ever said to anyone was: “I guess it’s more fun with subsequent characters.”

maddoctor.2738:

You can play in VB at least 5 times without doing the same thing following the 5 outpost chains, that will give you more than enough experience to complete any masteries needed in VB to progress further in the game (and then some). Just because you don’t have enough experience to progress in the maguuma if you blast through and ignore all content, doesn’t mean there is no content.

That quintuple of content is only available if you log on 5 times at the right time. It would take me a lot more often, because I don’t consider the clock when I play. My experience in VB ranges from getting there when almost everything is done and all there is to do is waiting for the clock to tick slowly toward nightfall, to arriving when it’s almost nightfall and nothing has been done yet and it’s pointless to start anything. Or it’s night and no one’s there doing anything and the map is sprinkled with camps overrun by mordrem. One thing that never happened to me yet is that I arrive on a map that was interesting. Of course not, because that’s very unlikely to occur spontaneously. Every “fruitful” map is filled to the brim when you arrive at inopportune times. My experience in VB is that it’s a map you can complete quite easily, and nothing very interesting happens there while you do it. Usually you’re being asked to volunteer to another map within a few minutes of arriving.

maddoctor.2738:

And really, Itzel Poison, Nuchoch Wallows and Basic Gliding are the only masteries that block your progress in some way. Anything else is an extra

Moving the goalposts. The issue is not whether we need them, but what is needed to acquire them.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Without this levelling people would complain there is nothing to do.

They complain about that anyway.

ProtoGunner.4953:

My only complaint is the short and rushed story, only 4 maps and no single dungeon or fractal. The price should have been around 40€ for people who already own he original game. That said, rest is fine. I don’t play WvW and PvP so I can’t comment on this.

See, you’re making that complaint yourself.

This mastery levelling only camouflages the lack of content, it doesn’t remedy it.

Collecting XP for HoT mastery is more grindy than collecting XP to get to 80. Simply because there’s nowhere near enough content to max masteries. I dare say there’s nowhere near half of what you need to max it, or even a third.

Whenever I played a character from 1 to 80 in central Tyria, I hit 80 a long, long time before I exhausted the content there. Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world. If you consider any part of that a grind, you’re ignoring huge parts of the game. And I can see why people want to rush to 80, sure. They want to use another class to take a crack at some level 80 content. ANet provided for that with plenty of consumables to get you there. People can say that getting to 80 is a grind. That doesn’t make it true. That’s like saying cable TV is boring, but never watching anything other than some education channel hidden in the high channel numbers.

Levelling HoT masteries however, takes an awful lot of repetition, and the only content that gives significant XP repeats itself in 2 hour cycles. But I’ve said enough about those.

I don’t know if it failed, but it failed me.

Failed joins locking you out for a long time? Check, I’ve had that happen. The whole LFG GUI will stay greyed-out for minutes when that happens.

Unreasonably long “too many parties” lock-outs after doing nothing to warrant that? Check! It even happened to me after logging on, joining a single party and playing a single fractal without any party-related complications. Upon leaving the party I couldn’t join parties until I logged out and back on with a different character.

You only need to compare it to GW pre-HoT, not to anything else. I really don’t give a rodent’s rectum about the state of games I’ve never played.

Auto pick-up has a remarkable range. It even gave me loot when I was back at the launch pad after making a gliding run and throwing a bomb at a tight pack of branded.

Vayne.8563:

We definitely lost some people to the game being too easy before the expansion. I can’t say how many but I know people who left due to lack of challenge in the game. Some of them have come back.

Anyone truthfully leaving because of the game being too easy, and coming back for HoT, will be gone again soon because of the severely lacking amount of content in HoT. If HoT is the only content in this game you appreciate, you still have next to nothing.

I was looking for it among the other locked glider skins, yeah. And then I tried previewing from the BL shop. And that exhausted my ideas. I guess I’ll wait.

Maybe I’m being stupid, but I can’t find a way to preview this thing in game.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Mal.1670:

I still don’t see the appeal of shared inventory slots, especially considering their price. The bank is already a giant shared inventory. I’d imagine most people have their alts at crafting stations/major cities/banks anyways. When these go on sale I might buy them. They’re too expensive for their value that you get much cheaper from banks otherwise.

I’ve never left any character in a city/near a bank or whatever. I always leave them at the place I’m doing content with them. Some haven’t seen a city in years. If they need services, I’d go to my server’s borderland and when I’m done there, they’re straight back exactly where they were. Yesterday, one of my characters got the one-time cinematic that was added to LA after it was rebuild. It was his first visit since that time. Most of my characters haven’t seen it yet.

And now, with these 5 slots, all my characters can bank, salvage and sell junk anywhere at any time. The only loading screens I ever see now are those of the areas I actually want to play. If there’s any lull in the content I’m playing, I can take 30 seconds and salvage my loot and sell the junk. With every character.

Yesterday, I processed all my loot and used the mystic forge on some rubbish runes, some of which I retrieved from the bank. While I was waiting for Rox and Braham to make their way to the weapon testing room in the Molten Furnace fractal.

These slots are saving me quite a lot of time that I can now spend on playing instead of travelling and doing chores. They’re worth every gem to me. Before those slots, I hadn’t even considered buying the salvage-o-matic I have now, because I play too many alts. If I’d need to go to a bank to move it among them, I could just as easily go to a merchant instead and buy some kits.

Well once guild halls have the workshop with the scribe npc active, you can use the scribing tables as bank access. WvW, home borderland and upgraded keeps, and PvP lobby both have bank access at them, and access to all 3 is free (once the guild hall is upgraded to that point) and will return you to where you were just at. That is what many people have been using and going to use instead.

I see the appeal of the slots, I wanted them, and knew eventually Anet would add them, but nty on price. Never paying that much.

Regarding the price… I’ll have to admit, to make my story complete, I don’t think of it in terms of money. One of the items I’m using in a shared slot is a Tarrktun portal device. I made a rather large 4 figure amount of gold going after that, and I wasn’t poor before by any stretch of the imagination. I bought 4,000 gems with gold after that and I still had them months later when these slots appeared. I’ve never paid real money for gems and I never will so I regard the cost of those slots differently than most people I guess.

The open world tab is a major disaster since HoT. It was already a minor disaster prior to HoT.

If the whole taxi situation is to remain the only way to be able to get to populated maps where people are actually doing things, they should also add a “commander looking for squad members” tab. The 5 player limit is horrendous when people are rushing to get to interesting maps.

Or perhaps even something as basic as a “come join me” tab, where people don’t form parties but just present themselves so other players can click a button to join those people in their instances. Maybe even with a counter that says how many players can still join and the join button greyed out when that counter is at 0. It should only work for people in open world areas, and people should only see entries from people in the same area but a different instance, with green names signifying people in the same instance. It would be glorious.

Vayne.8563:

Soon.5240:

Kaiju chi.3620:

How come there are no heart task to do like in the other parts of the game?.

Hearts required imagination and a respect for the RPG elements of gaming. So they were jettisoned….

Now you have Adventures! Nintendo styled platform events that have no place in a MMORPG.

Hearts required imagination and respect for roleplaying? They were put in the game, as per Anet, to get people to areas were dynamic events were. That’s why they were put into the game. They didn’t even exist in the first two betas. People simply didn’t understand a game without static quests, so they had to put in these places near were events spawned and keep them there.

Anet didn’t add hearts for some bizarre RP reason. They added them to make you stay in one place long enough for an event to spawn.

I don’t think the poster you replied to was talking about why ANet added them. Just about what they required.

Also, I don’t necessarily believe ANet anymore when they tell us why they do things.

There is one thing in HoT that I definitely consider grind and I find it absolutely repulsive.

Every time you want something from the merchant at the end of Dragon’s Stand area, you have to work through the entire meta event again. It does not come as a surprise to me that people AFK their way through it. Spending hours just to access a kitten-forsaken merchant for crying out loud.

This game is so great…

I just stretched another game out to last what must’ve felt like forever to my opponents.

As usual, people start leaving at a disadvantageous score. After some shuffling, the scores are at 120-20 and we’re in a 2 vs 1 setup, I’m the one, and I’m the one with the 20 points. We started out as a proper 4 vs 4 game but all the involuntary team switchers left immediately.

I was just farming health so 2 vs 1, that’s great for me. I don’t hurt them, they can’t grab “my” health orbs, and I didn’t have team members hurting them and ruining that for me. I never left the respawn point voluntarily. I don’t want to get out there before the orbs I took during my last “suicide run” respawned. It took them 19 additional minutes to get their 500. To their credit, they stuck with it.

Everyone who joined the game was placed on my team because of the 2 vs 1 situation. They all left immediately, so the teams had no chance to grow. One guy came and left 3 times.

One of my best games ever, I boosted my Dragon’s Heart achievement with 13%.

Behellagh.1468:

It could also be multiple players outbidding one another while pulling their previous bids so the overall count is the same.

I get drawn into that a lot. I find it tiresome, but I deal with it.

I know I don’t need to give you any TP advice, but here’s how I deal with it, for the sake of the argument or whomsoever does care.

If I get outbid by a copper, I up my bid significantly (only if the bid/offer gap is huge of course). If get outbid by a copper again, I up my bid even more significantly. Rinse and repeat. I start raising in tens of gold if I need to for certain items. Eventually the competition stops. And if they retract the bids I tempted them into, I retract my high bid as well and reinstate my original bid. Usually, the competition won’t be back for a long while if I do that, and I do get my stuff cheap. And if they are back before I get the stuff, rinse and repeat. I never fold and I never ran into someone who kept up with me.

If someone frustrates your efforts, frustrate them back harder. You’re not defenceless on the TP. I never have more than 10 “structural” buy orders on the TP at once, but I’m all over those few like a bloodhound.

I play at least 9 fractals a day, almost every day since the launch of HoT. I do 3 at every tier that offers a daily for doing 3, and I try to do 9 different ones. I’m sure I make a lot more kills than the swamp people.

I’ve also not seen a single “Amber Quantic Dipole” or “Azure Denaturizing Agent”, of which you need 13 and 4 respectively. At zero drops, I can’t even extrapolate based on my personal drop rate after 3 months, how long it will take me to find enough to earn an Old Tom minipet. I would arrive at infinity. In the same time, I found 14 Professor Mews.

Maybe I’m unlucky, but my drops for those “special” items are ranging from incredibly rare to never seem them at all. After 3 months, I’m inclined to start blaming the drop rate instead of my luck. Especially when I also consider the price on the TP for the dipoles. Also, every time I open the LFG, I see people organizing “shard farm” parties. They wouldn’t need to do that if the drop rate was reasonable. It’s not like you need a whole lot of them. A handful is enough to cover most needs. And yet people feel the need to farm for that handful.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Always an excuse for everything you say that doesn’t make sense beneath the surface or even at surface level in this case.

To “expect” what we actually got after reading that article would take a psychic. The only thing one could reasonably expect, after reading that article, if one figured that they’re just painting a pretty picture, is that “adventures” wouldn’t be as fabulous in the actual game. But that’s not what you’re saying.

You’re saying that you expected “what you got”. So you expected that they would be closed some or even most of the time in some cases, despite the article explicitly stating that they’d be open all of the time. And you expected that the Shooting Gallery would be an uninspired slog lacking several elements that were mentioned in the article. You also expected dysfunctional leaderboards and faulty score tracking?

Yes that’s the answer I’m psychic. That’s obviously it. I did my research bought the game, and, for the most part, knew what I was getting. Other people did too, they must be psychic.

But you who doesn’t go to reddit, or Dulfy or other sites expects to know something about a game by simply reading the press on the company’s page? You take everything said by everyone at face value?

Okay then.

Moving the goalposts again. You said: " But then, I read that same article and expected what I got." Not Dulfy, not kitten Reddit. The article.

And after reading that you expected that they wouldn’t actually be open all the time? Come on, be honest. I’ve never called anyone a white knight before because I hate throwing labels at people. I’m on the verge now. You’re making entire unreasonable arguments.

Article:

As you progress through outposts and event content in the world, more Adventures will open up. This means that when you or other players clean up events in an area, there will still be readily available, on-demand content to experience, regardless of the current state of the open world.

And reading that, you expected what we got? I dare say that’s absolutely impossible.

As you progress through outposts and event content in the world, more Adventures will open up. You thought they’d open up permanently? Really? Have you played this game before.

See, when you go and do events in the world, the Orr Temples open up, and then they cycle. So yes, that’s what I expected. I expected them to cycle.

You do an event in the game and CoF opens up. Does it STAY OPEN. No. You have to open it.

As long as CoF is open, ie the event is done, you can play CoF. When CoF is closed , you can’t because you have to do the event.

If you’re not willfully misinterpreting it to try to make some kind of point or rile me up, you didn’t think about it, you just read words and didn’t apply any kind of in game logic to it.

Basically anything in this game that you need to do events to open up eventually closes and you have to do the events again.

“readily available, on-demand content to experience, regardless of the current state of the open world.”

“regardless of the current state of the open world.”

“regardless”

That quote implies you’d have to do certain events/unlock outposts only once and get an adventure that’ll be unlocked forever. That’s the only way that paragraph can be read. Certainly, it does not allow for the adventure to close based upon the current state of the open world. Because, again: “regardless of the current state of the open world.”

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been following Manassa’s posts for a while now. He’s admitted to actually using language to rile people up so he can complain more about HoT. The moment he did that, everything he says is suspect. He’s not trying to have a conversation he’s trying to stir the pot by his own admission.

I only stir it to keep the conversation going. Everything I write is sincere, I just dress it up.

Vayne.8563:

There’s absolutely no reason to give up anything to someone that admits to trying to stir the pot. The information was out there, and he chose to ignore it. How, exactly is that wrong?

The information was misinformation.

Vayne.8563:

Put it another way. Before I spent $50 of my hard earned money on a game, I do a bit of research so I don’t waste my money on that game. Because I’ve lived in this world for 54 years, I depend on more than just a company to tell me about their product. It’s practically the companies job to sell you on a product. You have to take any advertisement for anything with a grain of salt. It’s why review sites exist.

I bought HoT on the strength of the original game. I guess that was a mistake. I haven’t been a “real” gamer for a dozen years or so. I’ve bought and played 2 games other than the GW franchise in all that time. I grew out of gaming. I’m not going to tell you how old I am, but I was already into games when the first Space Invaders cabinet came out. I probably played every pinball machine ever made bar some extremely rare ones. So, as a “non-gamer” I have no interest in gaming websites at all. If that means I’m bound to be a victim to publisher misinformation, or one might call them outright lies if one were less charitable, I’ll just repay that by being “in your face” on their forum. At least that’s a moderately entertaining waste of time.

Vayne.8563:

But in this particular case Anet went into some depth about what adventures were. Massa didn’t even know they were in the game at all. It all came as a surprise to him.

I knew there would be an element called “adventures”. I didn’t realize what they entailed exactly. Turns out they were badly implemented boring minigames that you can’t even play when you want. Only vaguely similar to what was told about them on the official company news blog. Lesson learnt. Next expansion won’t be on my shopping list until I’ve had word of mouth from people I know in person. I still won’t go to Dulfy or Reddit, or whatever else they use to hype their lacking kitten.

Vayne.8563:

Do your research and maybe you won’t be surprise, maybe you won’t be disappointed, maybe you won’t have to come on a forums to intentionally rile people up (as he’s already stated in other posts) just so you can complain more about a game you did no research on.

No. I’ll do as I please.

Vayne.8563:

That’s essentially my issue with what he’s saying. It’s one thing to have legitmate gripes about a game, but this is a guy who’s claimed Anet doesn’t care about it’s players because they made a long meta event.

They did so without considering whether or not it would inconvenience players. That’s an apathetic attitude. And I distinctly remember reading a post here somewhere yesterday that the meta event cycles are being reconsidered, according to some ANet bigwig’s statements on one of those sites I couldn’t (couldn’t!) care less about. So what does that tell you?

Vayne.8563:

So what exactly should I be giving up?

We all know you’ll never give up. That was a pointless piece of advice.

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Always an excuse for everything you say that doesn’t make sense beneath the surface or even at surface level in this case.

To “expect” what we actually got after reading that article would take a psychic. The only thing one could reasonably expect, after reading that article, if one figured that they’re just painting a pretty picture, is that “adventures” wouldn’t be as fabulous in the actual game. But that’s not what you’re saying.

You’re saying that you expected “what you got”. So you expected that they would be closed some or even most of the time in some cases, despite the article explicitly stating that they’d be open all of the time. And you expected that the Shooting Gallery would be an uninspired slog lacking several elements that were mentioned in the article. You also expected dysfunctional leaderboards and faulty score tracking?

Yes that’s the answer I’m psychic. That’s obviously it. I did my research bought the game, and, for the most part, knew what I was getting. Other people did too, they must be psychic.

But you who doesn’t go to reddit, or Dulfy or other sites expects to know something about a game by simply reading the press on the company’s page? You take everything said by everyone at face value?

Okay then.

Moving the goalposts again. You said: " But then, I read that same article and expected what I got." Not Dulfy, not kitten Reddit. The article.

And after reading that you expected that they wouldn’t actually be open all the time? Come on, be honest. I’ve never called anyone a white knight before because I hate throwing labels at people. I’m on the verge now. You’re making entire unreasonable arguments.

Article:

As you progress through outposts and event content in the world, more Adventures will open up. This means that when you or other players clean up events in an area, there will still be readily available, on-demand content to experience, regardless of the current state of the open world.

And reading that, you expected what we got? I dare say that’s absolutely impossible.

Regarding the 3 forms of mist essence:

I’m sure they used to drop more often at some point. I’ve never had so few drop for me as since the HoT fractals rework, yet I’ve never played fractals as often as I’m doing now. If I hadn’t had a good supply of them in storage, despite having used them to infuse rings regularly, I’d be nowhere near having crafted Unbound.

I haven’t has a single glob since October, just 2 shards and a handful of vials. And I’m not a swamp/swamp/etc. guy.

Mal.1670:

I still don’t see the appeal of shared inventory slots, especially considering their price. The bank is already a giant shared inventory. I’d imagine most people have their alts at crafting stations/major cities/banks anyways. When these go on sale I might buy them. They’re too expensive for their value that you get much cheaper from banks otherwise.

I’ve never left any character in a city/near a bank or whatever. I always leave them at the place I’m doing content with them. Some haven’t seen a city in years. If they need services, I’d go to my server’s borderland and when I’m done there, they’re straight back exactly where they were. Yesterday, one of my characters got the one-time cinematic that was added to LA after it was rebuild. It was his first visit since that time. Most of my characters haven’t seen it yet.

And now, with these 5 slots, all my characters can bank, salvage and sell junk anywhere at any time. The only loading screens I ever see now are those of the areas I actually want to play. If there’s any lull in the content I’m playing, I can take 30 seconds and salvage my loot and sell the junk. With every character.

Yesterday, I processed all my loot and used the mystic forge on some rubbish runes, some of which I retrieved from the bank. While I was waiting for Rox and Braham to make their way to the weapon testing room in the Molten Furnace fractal.

These slots are saving me quite a lot of time that I can now spend on playing instead of travelling and doing chores. They’re worth every gem to me. Before those slots, I hadn’t even considered buying the salvage-o-matic I have now, because I play too many alts. If I’d need to go to a bank to move it among them, I could just as easily go to a merchant instead and buy some kits.

Mal.1670:

I still don’t see the appeal of shared inventory slots, especially considering their price. The bank is already a giant shared inventory. I’d imagine most people have their alts at crafting stations/major cities/banks anyways. When these go on sale I might buy them. They’re too expensive for their value that you get much cheaper from banks otherwise.

I’ve never left any character in a city/near a bank or whatever. I always leave them at the place I’m doing content with them. Some haven’t seen a city in years. If they need services, I’d go to my server’s borderland and when I’m done there, they’re straight back exactly where they were. Yesterday, one of my characters got the one-time cinematic that was added to LA after it was rebuild. It was his first visit since that time. Most of my characters haven’t seen it yet.

And now, with these 5 slots, all my characters can bank, salvage and sell junk anywhere at any time. The only loading screens I ever see now are those of the areas I actually want to play. If there’s any lull in the content I’m playing, I can take 30 seconds and salvage my loot and sell the junk. With every character.

Yesterday, I processed all my loot and used the mystic forge on some rubbish runes, some of which I retrieved from the bank. While I was waiting for Rox and Braham to make their way to the weapon testing room in the Molten Furnace fractal.

These slots are saving me quite a lot of time that I can now spend on playing instead of travelling and doing chores. They’re worth every gem to me.

Always an excuse for everything you say that doesn’t make sense beneath the surface or even at surface level in this case.

To “expect” what we actually got after reading that article would take a psychic. The only thing one could reasonably expect, after reading that article, if one figured that they’re just painting a pretty picture, is that “adventures” wouldn’t be as fabulous in the actual game. But that’s not what you’re saying.

You’re saying that you expected “what you got”. So you expected that they would be closed some or even most of the time in some cases, despite the article explicitly stating that they’d be open all of the time. And you expected that the Shooting Gallery would be an uninspired slog lacking several elements that were mentioned in the article. You also expected dysfunctional leaderboards and faulty score tracking?

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I’m not talking about the Shooting Gallery not being fun, but about the implementation not being anywhere near how they announced it. They describe gameplay elements as well as storytelling elements that just aren’t there. That write-up gave me certain expectations about the “adventures” that weren’t met by a long shot.

They’re just a pole you click for a mini-game. Some of the time.

Which brings me to the announced availability of adventures, which is no small thing, far from it. Also nothing but misinformation.

Different adventures have different ties ins with what’s going on in the world. Obviously it’s not a novel. They’re flavor things.

Comforting the fallen masks is great to me. Sorry you don’t like it, but there are lore tie ins with quite a few adventures. But then, I read that same article and expected what I got.

I guess we make different assumptions.

So after reading that article, you were expecting something not nearly as interesting as how they made it sound in there and you also expected they wouldn’t actually be available all of the time, “on demand”, despite the article saying they would be?

Man, I never realized you were such a pessimist about the game. I guess lowering my expectations is what I need to do to enjoy HoT more.

maddoctor.2738:

But you can get the achievements while doing the events properly that’s the whole point. Sure you might be able to dodge one less laser if you drop bombs before going back to glide again is that such a big deal? Or you might kill a few less branded if you focus on the crystals (or Shatterer) why is that such a big deal for you? In the end you miss 1 progress and get other achievements in the process what’s your problem?

My problem is that I want to stop doing Shatterer as soon as I can. If I can limit myself to 3 or 4 runs, that’s good. If I need many more to get those achievements, that’s not good because that’s not going to happen. I don’t do world bosses as a rule because they don’t interest me after a few runs. And I certainly don’t want to play content that I have to keep checking the time for, even if it did interest me.

maddoctor.2738:

Nice logic btw to encourage players to fail events on purpose. You are using the same logic as all the above examples I mentioned.

If people are doing exactly what they need to be doing to complete achievements, they’re playing the game how it’s meant to be played. If an achievement tells you to dodge lightning 20 times, and you’re doding lightning, are you telling me that’s wrong? If that conflicts with other people’s priorities, the game is at fault, not the players. And if the game is at fault, it’s in everybody’s best interest that the fault be made apparent, or it will never be fixed. Where’s the fault in that logic? Your point of view requires us to see some people’s priorities as more important than other people’s priorities. And of course you pick the side that coincides with your interests. That’s selfish.

maddoctor.2738:

Not helping is not selfish, it’s being apathetic at worst.

When you encourage players to ruin events then yes you are indeed being selfish and that’s what you said above.

No, you are being selfish for denying people their achievements in the timeframe that they want them. Terribly selfish.

maddoctor.2738:

But the bar, none of my concern, because I have no control over whether or not it will break at any given time.

But you do have control over it just like you have control over all the other achievements.

No, I don’t. I can contribute and hope enough people do so it works. That’s not control. That’s being at the mercy of other people. If you think differently, tell me, how can I break the bar? In event runs where the players don’t even have what it takes to defeat the dragon. Because that’s the kind of events I’ve been faced with in my early morning runs. If you tell me, I’ll break that kitten bar tomorrow morning at my next failed run.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Breaking the bar is completely inconsequential to the fight, so using the turret to break the bar is not a natural thing to do to progress the event.

If you break the bar you prevent him from using one of his attacks that might well down or kill people. Sure it lacks the power of other powerful boss attacks and maybe they should’ve made that particular attack way more powerful to make the achievement (and breaking the bar) more important. For example, like the Wyvern bars.

So we’re agreed then, breaking the bar is not particularly important.

It takes motivation, unity of purpose, and proper awareness of the mechanics. None of those are things you can take for granted.

At the start maybe. Later on as the community learns the mechanics then it’s different.

It will be harder than with any other boss to convince people of the importance of breaking that bar when nothing particularly bad happens if you don’t break it, and the event is won regardless. Reviving a few extra people is no big deal.

maddoctor.2738:

So not interacting with people is toxic? Doing your own thing in a game that’s supposed to be single-player friendly is unfriendly?

When your “own thing” can potentially hurt other players then I do find these people toxic hence my comment on adding open PVP in the game. Remember when people were doing their own thing intentionally failing events in order to farm them and preventing others from finishing the event?

I vaguely remember reading about it on the forum.

maddoctor.2738:

Remember when people break the Gerent’s breakbar when asked not to?

Actually, I’ve seen people ask that once. I have no idea why. The request came without explanation and I couldn’t be bothered to stand still to ask why. The bar was in fact broken every time it appeared and the battle was won regardless. I have no idea what that was about and I don’t particularly care. If there is an actual reason not to break the bar, that’s stupid. How can you expect people to properly deal with defiance bars if it’s not even clear if you should break it or not?

maddoctor.2738:

Remember when people use turrets when they have no knowledge on how to (and don’t ask for such knowledge). It’s the same kitten thing with what you are doing.

If players can mess up an event by being present and pursuing that event’s achievements, something is terribly wrong with the event or the achievements, not with what those players are doing. I would encourage those players to keep doing what they are doing so the event keeps failing, every single time. That way the event or the achievements might be fixed instead of being left to rot, like so many things are in this game.

maddoctor.2738:

When you know you can help but you choose not to for “reasons” then you are being at the very least selfish.

Not helping is not selfish, it’s being apathetic at worst. And I will admit to being apathetic. If we have to help people every time we’re around people, how are we going to get things done for ourselves. Especially when we go to the place we’re going for the express purpose of doing the thing we’re doing. Other people are not more important than I am on an objective scale, and they certainly aren’t more important than I am, on own my subjective scale.

maddoctor.2738:

Yes the bar has problems that they are addressing (namely taking too much CC to break) they will make it easier to break because now it’s punishing larger groups, that’s been said very early in the thread. But that doesn’t change your entire attitude over it.

I don’t really see what my attitude has to do with that bar. Or the bar with my attitude. I had the Shatterer sit on me. I dodged some lightning while throwing some healing kits at people. I fired a mortar and a turret too. I freed some people from crystals, which came as a surprise because I’ve never even seen those crystals. Probably a serendipitous side effect from using barrage. I’m happy. I might be back when some of the other achievements actually register. But the bar, none of my concern, because I have no control over whether or not it will break at any given time.

maddoctor.2738:

The mortars can be used to break the bar too. Much like how the Teq turrets work, they are essential for the fight.

Why do you keep talking about the break bar? Breaking the bar is completely inconsequential to the fight, so using the turret to break the bar is not a natural thing to do to progress the event. It’s only good for two achievements.

I never get on turrets/mortars or any such contraptions because I don’t like to stand still. Standing still in an action combat system does not come naturaly to me.

maddoctor.2738:

It’s the most unnatural achievement there is, and I don’t expect many people to learn to do it, because it’s pointless to break that bar, it has no bearing on a group’s ability to complete the event.

Yet it doesn’t take time, nor any kind of skill to participate in it does it?

It takes motivation, unity of purpose, and proper awareness of the mechanics. None of those are things you can take for granted.

maddoctor.2738:

Achievements that require 50 people to act simultaneous like well-trained monkeys hold no interest to me. Yeah, it’s hard. I’ve thrown some CC at the dragon once and the bar didn’t break. It was out of my hands and so it isn’t worth my time.

Yet they are actual achievements for the achievement hunter you claim are all over the event. And really using a couple of CC skills to break the bars of the Healing Crystals isn’t hard at all, just a couple of players are needed for each crystal and it is enough. The Shatterer breakbar is being looked at and they will reduce it, are you going to try breaking the bar if it needs 20 people to break it instead of 50? Or still too much?

I don’t care about the breakbar. I don’t care about those achievements. I never said I care about all achievements. In fact, I explicitly state that I don’t care about those achievements in the text you quoted. Why do you appear to tell me that I should care? Are you projecting? Are you jumping down my throat because you can’t find 50 monkeys to break your bar? Again, so you get it this time: the bar is none of my concern and neither are the achievements related to it.

maddoctor.2738:

I chose not to be part of that cooperative environment.

And they said the Guild Wars 2 community is a nice one. I guess they weren’t telling the truth if players do not want to be part of a cooperative environment and help their fellow players. Or maybe you are just a tiny minority and not all “achievement hunters” are like this, which is the most probable thing.

Why do you keep calling me an achievement hunter? Because there’s a few I want to do at the Shatterer? There are plenty of achievements that don’t interest me. I have several completely blank tabs in the achievment overview. I want to score some AP because I’m closing in on the next multiple of 5,000 and some of those Shatterer ones seemed easy. And they were. And when I’m done I won’t be visiting the Shatterer anymore. I’ll be out of your hair even though I’m sure we never met. World bosses don’t interest me. Have fun breaking your bar from your turret.

maddoctor.2738:

So I don’t know why you’d think I’m toxic and unfriendly.

I hope this is enough of an answer:

I chose not to be part of that cooperative environment.

You called me toxic and unfriendly before I posted that so that can’t be the answer, unless you have a time machine.

So not interacting with people is toxic? Doing your own thing in a game that’s supposed to be single-player friendly is unfriendly? There must be a lot of toxic and unfriendly people in your game. Everyone who never talked to you or refused to do something that interested you while they were near you regardless of whether or not it interested them. All those people are toxic and unfriendly. You have high standards.

maddoctor.2738:

But they do come naturally. You can both get the dodge while gliding AND drop bombs on him. You can kill Branded foes while also damaging him, and indeed killing branded foes helps the entire map complete the event. Getting people out of crystals is self-explanatory why it helps and comes naturally.

I wish to minimize the number of times I play the event. None of the achievements come naturally within that constraint. Throwing around healing would be something I’d never do at all, so definitely not a “natural” achievement. Neither would be the turret or mortar achievement. You wouldn’t see me man one of those if there wasn’t a reward for it.

Breaking the bar? If anything isn’t a natural thing, it’s that. It’s an achievement that requires everyone to care about it specifically. People have to stop doing all those other “natural” achievements to press one or two keys at exactly the right time to achieve something that’s not required at all to win the event. This morning, I was rezzing someone when the breakbar appeared. Should I abort and try to use my knockback that I’m terribly out of position for because of the rezzing? I didn’t. It’s the most unnatural achievement there is, and I don’t expect many people to learn to do it, because it’s pointless to break that bar, it has no bearing on a group’s ability to complete the event.

maddoctor.2738:

The funniest part is that there achievements that require you to break the healing crystals AND one to kill him without him ever flying. If those players ruining the event were actually achievement hunters as you say, wouldn’t it make sense to try for those too? Or those are too hard?

Achievements that require 50 people to act simultaneous like well-trained monkeys hold no interest to me. Yeah, it’s hard. I’ve thrown some CC at the dragon once and the bar didn’t break. It was out of my hands and so it isn’t worth my time.

maddoctor.2738:

What’s wrong with being selfish?

What’s wrong with being selfish In a cooperative environment? I wonder really.

I chose not to be part of that cooperative environment. It’s terribly presumptuous of you and terribly selfish too, to expect everyone to cooperate to achieve the things you want to achieve. I do my own thing and ask nothing of anyone.

maddoctor.2738:

Let’s add open world PVP then so everyone can be selfish while ruining the fun of others.

Let’s not resort to nonsense to defend an indefensible position.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

But it’s more than that and beyond this single thread. Folks like Manasa are those who complain about Raiding and/or other not-so-casual events of HoT, so we now see exactly why. They can’t be carried there and complete the content while others are doing all the work and they just stand still and tag along for the achievements.

I would urge you not to spread lies about me.

I never post lies.

And I thought the “zerker wannabies” and “meta followers” were toxic and working against the community. It appears that you can be toxic, unfriendly, selfish, ruin the experience for others, without following any meta nor being an elitist.

I earned every achievement I have except the ones awarded to me because of bugs. There have been those. If I ever ruined anyone’s experience, I hope it was yours. I never even chat in the game except in guild chat, and to whisper people advice if they ask for it a second time and no one answers. So I don’t know why you’d think I’m toxic and unfriendly. People don’t even notice me when I’m walking around doing my thing. I’ve never, ever, had someone tell me off for anything, except some kitten who whispered thrash about my mother in game because of some thing I posted on these forums. I reported him and blocked him without engaging him in conversation. I’ve never seen him or her online since.

So, please reign it in. And stop telling lies about me.

maddoctor.2738:

But it’s more than that and beyond this single thread. Folks like Manasa are those who complain about Raiding and/or other not-so-casual events of HoT, so we now see exactly why. They can’t be carried there and complete the content while others are doing all the work and they just stand still and tag along for the achievements.

I would urge you not to spread lies about me.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The game is vast. There’s plenty of room for folks like Manasa who are content doing their own thing and plenty for folks like myself, who like figuring out how to coordinate with massive numbers of random (well, if by “massive” we mean 50+).

And like Manasa says, when there are new chieves out, some people will be super focused on those (regardless of what else is going on) and others who care mostly about loot and others who are just there to kill a dragon (or whatever for the heck of it).

Besides, this has nothing to do with whether the Shatterererererererer’s defiance bar is tuned too difficult or if it will turn out to be too easy in a few weeks.

Well, it does relate to the defiance bar tangentially. When the initial dust settles and more people are there to actually do the event because the achievement hunters are done, that bar will break somewhat easier at the very least.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

No… I go there to do what I want to do and what everyone else is doing doesn’t interest me at all. The last 2 times (out of a total of 3) I went there, the event failed, and I was perfectly fine with that. I got 4 achievements out of it and that was for the “work” I did. No one else contributed to that or carried me.

maddoctor.2738:

All the achievements except for the one to stand there and let the Shatterer crash you contribute to the event itself.

No, not really.

Nice so you go to do such events to get achievements and not to participate in the events themselves. Selfish much?

Get over it. The achievements were added to be achieved. That’s what I’ve been doing. And I’m not the only one, not even the only one announcing that intent in this thread. The event is flooded with people lining up for their turn at a turret or mortar, and there are dozens of people just gliding and running back to the launch pad regardless of what needs to be done.

I wouldn’t be there if there were no achievements after doing it once. Blame ANet for adding those kinds of achievements. It’s not as if this is the first time they’re messing up their own events with stupid achievements. Tequatl used to have a dozen or so people trying to dodge its tail with every run of the event the first few weeks after the redesign.