Not this kitten again…
1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
The PURPOSE for BALANCING is to make sure there ISN’T A META.
Make everything as efficient as everything else and be done with it.
Because cleric gear should absolutely damage just as much as berserker and berserker should be just as tanky as soldiers. Right. Gotcha.
Lilith, even though in the end, everything resolves in killing and surviving; it doesn’t mean that all we can do is damage and tank. Cleric is out of the question because it empathize healing and healer is not a supported role in GW2. But when we could totally have another set which increases the effectiveness of our boons (not the duration), making might grant more power or fury more crit. Having such a stat would turn a player into a support role who can at the same time increase Zerk effectiveness. Defiant could be change, instead of having a stack value, it could have a cumulative value (like an HP bar) and having a stat that increases CC effectiveness to reduce that defiant faster or even bypass it in some cases. This would make players specialized in control very effective in such task.
These are just 2 examples I imagine could help having support and control as viable roles without even touching zerk. Of course, the dungeon design has to go along side by side. The dungeons we have today are kinda of a joke.
I don’t think you’re understanding that in truly efficient runs, control and support are major factors in that efficiency. The problem is we’ve done each path a million times. We know which attacks will kill us and which won’t. We have tactics created over the course of 1.5 years that have grown to where we are today. This Involves clever use of support conditions, boons, crowd control and controlling defiant. It takes time to get there. We have had the time. If we were still soldier gearing, Cleric healing for 50HP PER tick, ranging bosses our gameplay would not be better. It would not have evolved at all and we would be stagnant.
I don’t think you truly understand what I have said.
If I give you a stat that will scale might and other buffs potency to provide more power, more crit, more etc… having a player full on that stat could totally change the outcome of the rest of the party. What if your elem’s might instead of giving X might, grant you X+20% might? that 20% increase would result in more DPS than the missing zerk gear on that elemen. Get it?
Same would go for control if the core was a bit different and also if dungeons were more challenging, more clever not just dodge or die mechanic. Currently you can use kittened strategies like stacking and skipping half the dungeon. Even though they say its not illegal, I hardly believe they wasted on someones salary to design just that. It obviously went wrong.
(edited by Mesket.5728)
Not this kitten again…
1. Even if you nerf zerk into oblivion something will always be the “meta” and people will look to utilize that.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
The PURPOSE for BALANCING is to make sure there ISN’T A META.
Make everything as efficient as everything else and be done with it.
Because cleric gear should absolutely damage just as much as berserker and berserker should be just as tanky as soldiers. Right. Gotcha.
Lilith, even though in the end, everything resolves in killing and surviving; it doesn’t mean that all we can do is damage and tank. Cleric is out of the question because it empathize healing and healer is not a supported role in GW2. But we could have another set which increases the effectiveness of our boons (not the duration), making might grant more power or fury more crit. Having such a stat would turn a player into a support role who can at the same time increase Zerk effectiveness. Defiant could be change, instead of having a stack value, it could have a cumulative value (like an HP bar) and having a stat that increases CC effectiveness to reduce that defiant faster or even bypass it in some cases. This would make players specialized in control very effective in such task.
These are just 2 examples I imagine could help having support and control as viable roles without even touching zerk. Of course, the dungeon design has to go along side by side. The dungeons we have today are kinda of a joke.
I’m in agreement with others that simply nerfing berserker gear is not the answer. I don’t agree that the change to ferocity ‘did nothing’ or is ‘useless’ though. It was simply the first step in a long list of things that needed to be done in order to balance the various available roles to make support and cc more desirable.
I think we’re starting to see some of the further changes, although I don’t think their implementations are perfect. The amount of things no longer reflect able might require a bit of tweaking, for example.
support is already extremely desirable. CC has niche uses but when used, it can be used very effectively. what is the problem here?
support is only ‘extremely desirable’ in that you can provide it adequately while still running zerkers. that’s not precisely what im talking about.
one of the main issues with zerkers being the king of all sets is simply due to the fact that you can max your dps while still fulfilling the needs for support and cc without specing for it. thats not precisely how it should work, and what causes the majority of the issue at hand. in instances where you need support, you should need someone that is specced that way, or at least a couple of hybrids. the roles are not balanced in their need of having someone specced for it.
you can see it most obviously in dungeon runs. most groups want that person in zerker gear who can provide the better dps, but can still offer reflects or protection or w/e adequately. they are going to take that person over someone in anything else because the support that person offers is sufficient.
You seem to get it right! Hopefully more players will start thinking this way.
You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?
No I don’t want that. I didn’t say it or imply it. Your reading comprehension need some improvement.
Please, make the effort of expaaaanding your mind just a little bit beyond the trinity. There are thousands of other roles they could come up with besides tank/heal. Many other games did it before successfully. Stop being stuck in the trinity or nothing mentality.
If you want to be a condescending kitten then so be it. My point still stands, YOU want specific roles and this game was advertised as NOT having them. And no there are not thousannnnnnddddsssss of roles they could create.
I’ll give you just one tiny example of how bad the game was designed: The game advertised no trinity, ok? although we only had stats for 3 things initially: DPS, tank and heal. This is not me saying I want this, it is a fact that the game was implemented this way; stats for tank, heal and dps with no such trinity. Probably bad communication between different offices, who knows; but it was plain bad. Anet on their manifesto promoted the roles of support and control, but… where is the gear for such roles? Where is the stat that increases not the duration but the effect of my boons? How can I make my control skill more effective? How do I specialize, gear-wise, in those roles? Why do we have like a dozen of different stat combos when only 3 are needed? It is a matter of concept. Forget for a second what’s most effect in a dungeon today. Do you really think they wasted time, money, resources, designing a dozen different sets for gear knowing that only 1 will be used by the vast majority of players? Of course not. They did it wrong. Simple as that. Content is bad and it can be trivialized by using only one set of gear and only one tactic (stacking). I just hope for the sake of the game, they can improve this and fix their design so all stats are useful, probably not the stats we have today though.
ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.
I run full zerk on 4 out of my 5 80s and I’m still against this “all in full zerk” logic. I don’t blame the players though, they are min/maxing the game and that is what most of us like in games where you can customize your character. I do blame ANet for making a game with so many flaws on its core design that a party of 5 dps can complete any content. Anything is trivial and loose meaning soon. What’s worse, its a horrible way to present the game to new players, specially if they have previous experience in MMOs.
You want dps/tank/heal…this game was advertised as not having a trinity. Why are you playing?
No I don’t want that. I didn’t say it or imply it. Your reading comprehension need some improvement.
Please, make the effort of expaaaanding your mind just a little bit beyond the trinity. There are thousands of other roles they could come up with besides tank/heal. Many other games did it before successfully. Stop being stuck in the trinity or nothing mentality.
(edited by Mesket.5728)
They are not trying to loose players if they are improving the quality of life for new players.
What you consider something wrong, its an amazing improvement for new players.
I recently brought 3 friends to start playing GW2 and you know how hard is to explain why they are seeing a huge raid of lvl 80s running in circles in a lvl 10 map in a way that doesn’t make the game look bad? Or doing their first dungeon… “now we run and stack, smash, run and stack, smash, etc…” yeah dungeons are fun!.
ya im sorry ppl who keep trying to blame everything on zerker need to also consider the other variable in the equation..i.e themselves, if zerker is OP why dont you just run it? oh cause you keep dying..enuf said.
I run full zerk on 4 out of my 5 80s and I’m still against this “all in full zerk” logic. I don’t blame the players though, they are min/maxing the game and that is what most of us like in games where you can customize your character. I do blame ANet for making a game with so many flaws on its core design that a party of 5 dps can complete any content. Anything is trivial and loose meaning soon. What’s worse, its a horrible way to present the game to new players, specially if they have previous experience in MMOs.
cof p1 7min vs cof p1 30min, which one will you choose?
People complains goes farther than this. Players who are fond with clasic MMORPG will preffer a game where COF P1 7 mins is not even an option. To be honest, I don’t consider cof a dungeon anymore and I wish this game had real dungeons.
THIS HAS TO BE A THING
inb4 moved to the land of the lost, I mean the suggestion forum
I hope they keep fixing every game encounter so you can no longer stack, skip or trivialize anything. Poop is getting real!
Funny. Spider queen still dead before she poison fields. LOL
LILIZ Y U DO DIS!? STAPH!
I hope they keep fixing every game encounter so you can no longer stack, skip or trivialize anything. Poop is getting real!
Home instance was a failiure… it is only used in the personal story or by some maniacs to farm crystal or candy once a day. There is nothing personal or to make it feel “home”. Just a bunch of NPCs you run along in the personal quest.
Soooo much room for improvement there but well,… flaming and sparkling items in the gemstore are priority I guess…
With agony resistance in the TP they stepped a little bit into the Pay2Win realm. Hopefully they realize that and turn around quickly.
ps. For the fanboys, agony resistance does give an advantage and it can be acquire with your wallet now.
pugs that pretend to play like pre-mades on a speedclear while they are really pugging with randoms.
@Mesket
Different would be if by no mean a berserk could survive said content and requires the constant assistance of a support character, either buffing with aegis, vigor and cleanse or a control character to keep his rotation up to interrupt un-dodgeable attacks.
That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve heard recently. Let’s remove the trinity then add it again for no reason. No, the whole fun of GW2 is you don’t need to have specific classes to beat content.
Because playing this with less roles than GTA online is better? Yeah! lets have many classes and play them all like thief wannabe! You are a wizard? fk off, get a dagger and melee! oh you a ranger? forget it! get a sword and melee! wait.. you have a shield there? drop it and get dps! yeah you are right! sounds more likely of the idea of an mmorpg. Lets completely destroy the concept of a party instead and group 5 damage dealers to do their things together.
This is the Dungeon Subforum. Which means there is exactly one way to play your class. If you do something else you are a noob.
Not really…though there are good ways and bad ways to play a class, especially when it comes to team play.
I wish we could have these discussions without all the rage and over-defensive passive-aggression.
I just wish someday the users in this forums realized is not a ranger’s fault if he wants to use a bow, and its not (entirely) the elitist’s fault if he wants his mates to play properly… it is the devs fault not to build a game where a ranger can play with a bow or a guardian as a defender or an elementalist using a staff or bla bla, you get the point. Game sucks (?)
I don’t use my Ranger for dungeons. I didn’t rolled one to play a thief. It’s annoying that EVERY character is played the same… that is why I don’t use my Ranger for dungeons.
Ergo, I agree with the OP. Rangers can’t play their class in Dungeons. Whoever is still holding to the argument “you can bring a sword” is not understanding something VERY basic…
The gear is fine.
The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.
looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear
>.> <.<
can’t find
If you can solo it as berserk, then it was designed on a berserk standard since its the weakest (in terms of survivability) you can find. (Disclaimer: berserk meaning pure dps build and not exclusively the set p/p/f).
Different would be if by no mean a berserk could survive said content and requires the constant assistance of a support character, either buffing with aegis, vigor and cleanse or a control character to keep his rotation up to interrupt un-dodgeable attacks.
Then we will have content that is not fit for berserk only.
One hit, dodge or die PLUS timer on bosses = designed exclusively for berserk, aything else is a waste of stats (and I don’t find this fine in any mean from a game design point of view. I find this to be the biggest flaw in GW2).
It not about having a issue with casual players that just don’t have enough time to dedicates to the game to become better. Its about mutual respect when we party up in a dungeon. We are into that dungeon together are when you see a staff guardian or bearbow ranger, you know that he bring so little to the party that he could just stay AFK at the beginning of the path while the rest of the group do the jobs. (That’s a figure of speech). Its like building something. You see someone working with you and he’s using a screwdriver to install nails. You ask him to use a hammer for that, because that’s a better option and you don’t want him to install 2 nails, while you are doing all the job. Its normal to ask him to use a hammer (even if it to build something for fun) and not a screwdriver. And its normal to ask someone in a dungeon to use a sword, a hammer or a greatsword in a dungeon and not a staff. Staff have its use in WvW but its really limited in dungeon.
My guardian recently hit 80 and I barely touched the staff other than map running… and I know that it is possible top 3 worst weapons for a dungeon run, but still, I know it can provide 12 mights, swiftness all the time, 2 heals and a wall to either keep mobs at bay or keep them close so they won’t run (also used wisely it could be a perma interrupt as it keeps knocking a target against a wall). Point is, even on its uselessness, it provides something; and if that is what makes him happy, then I don’t see it as much of an issue to deal with, asking him to change his way of playing so I can be doing another stupid thing in this game in a different scenario. I find it more fun-killer when a prick start bashing a player in the group rather than a player who does less damage than the rest.
My thought is, am I really going to annoy this guy so I don’t get out of here 5 minutes later? what’s the point? to enter another dungeon 5 minutes earlier? Am I that kind of person? It’s just a video game…
For fun sake: Attitude > Skill. It would be different if we were talking about business where real money is involved, but for recreation? I prefer the guy that has fun by his own than the guy who can’t have fun if the rest is not doing what he thinks is best.
This isn’t the SIMS, so, NO!!!!
This isn’t monopoly either and players playing economy are more successful than players killing mobs outside the trading post, so your argument is invalid.
Marriage and Home – I Approve. (not the lame totally useless home instance we currently have…)
GW1 AI > GW2.
GW2 took such a HUGE step backwards in terms of AI, its even worst than its own predecessor. I really hope it gets better but after 2 years I don’t have much hope it will ever be anything close to GW1.
None,… I stopped liking WOW weapons the second I left that game. I really hope for better designed weapons instead of ugly things covered with particle FX. Centaur weapons are still better in design for example than this crappy fire things.
GW2 art should come back instead of copy/paste WOW equipment. The game looks worst each patch.
Link for comparison otherwise everyone think you’re just making things up.
really? Like I need to link the very basic graphics in game just for you? Like cultural weapons, cultural armors, faction weapons or faction armors? Do I REALLY need to link all that? Please compare a kitten or even T3 with a crappy reskin they made for flameseeker or that hideous neon light wings many sport as some kind of e-pen like “watch me! watch me! I have sparks!”… in old armors you could see artist work, mixing of fabrics and most important fitting a concept. Since the game sell their boxes now its just crappy easy to do, bright to showoff, ugly skins.
Transformations are bad. Stop fooling yourself with forced scenarios to make it fit. The sole fact that you use it to escape just proves us right, they are in fact lame skills and people don’t use them as they were designed… bear charge into bear runnaway lol
None,… I stopped liking WOW weapons the second I left that game. I really hope for better designed weapons instead of ugly things covered with particle FX. Centaur weapons are still better in design for example than this crappy fire things.
GW2 art should come back instead of copy/paste WOW equipment. The game looks worst each patch.
2 years and this still is one of the main issues with the game. GW2 is not an RPG. It’s an online assasin’s creed kind of game. Its an arcade. Its not a game about teamplay. We are all single players on the same map. Get it in your head. They won’t fix it.
The “role” in role playing game doesn’t mean “role” as in healer, tank, support, dps. It means the portrayal of a persona different from yours.
That can be applied as being different from the 99.9% of the players running zerk gear.
full zerker party shouldn’t be the standard. The fact that it is, shows how bad designed pve is.
Players playing roles on a role playing game… me god… the world we live in.
Basic / Grind / Decay
Because the game had an idea at first (to make the world a living thing, so events and stuff just kept happening unless players countered them).
Unfortunately, they failed and nobody care for their game. Players play 5-10% of the current game.
Indeed it is a rare creature… I didn’t know there was a living being able to wear that shoulder skin
Pay to win free to play korean MMOs are for you.
because this is game is sooooo far from that lol…. its 60$ far, nothing more.
around 15 real life friends joined this game with me at closed beta… around 5 more joined within the first 2 weeks.
Only 2 returned after they all quit somewhere between the first 3-5 months after release.
Those 2 haven’t log back in a month already…
they loved the game…
loved…
I’m afraid we’ve already seen the best of GW2.
Manifesto did its job…. sell boxes.
Now the gemstore took over the game.
Well, I’m sure ANet will be more than happy to subsist with just your semi-casual gem purchases.
Others think that a company of ANet size, able to develop the GW2 we knew before release, can do way much better. The game just feels like an orange juice machine with no more oranges. Squeezing and squeezing those last drops.
Until real improvement is seen, people who loved the game at release but are unhappy with the current direction (and not a single particular change but the whole direction for the last year) will keep complaining at the forums.
This game can be considered casual because it has no real goals…
But if you consider the harder things to acquire as end game, this game is far from being casual friendly and its actually one of the most hardcore/grindfest games currently online. Few games demand as many hours online dedicated entirely to farming like GW2,… again, if you are looking for the hard-to-get shinnies.
You never played any Korean grind MMO’s have you? I remember one I’ve played where gaining 1 level took 12 hours (and that was at the mid level range, near cap it was easily 20-24 hours if not more). Loot was not shared and everything worked on the honor system when you did dungeon runs as drops were based on who did the most damage. The most sought out items dropped extremely rarely, the only place that dropped them at a more common area was a PvP map and there were no level restrictions on who could kill who (unless you were on the PvP server, then every map was PvP other then the starters). These items that were most sought after were used to buff the damage of your weapons. You needed 64 of these items to get your weapon from +0 to +9 (if you were lucky that is, most of the time the weapon would break at +5 or +6). Then in later patches they added all the way to +12 which really was impossible to get to I think you need 150-200 of those items).
There are much, much worse grind games out there then this one. Exotic’s are cheap and will hold you over for a while. If you just relax and don’t race to get the best of the best you will have a lot more fun and you will think of this as less of a grind.
Played many… I played more than 30 MMOs (probably more than 50) since 1997. It is the only game genre I actually spend time on. Most of them were Asians and only a few had a working quest system to level… I remember the “good’ol’days” of “I need to kill 3K wolfs to make a level” (and I was only at lvl 20 ish out of hundreds so yeah, I did my share of grindfest… but you know what? those games are designed for that. You accept to grind in a grinding game because it is made in a way it is actually relaxing… you know you won’t go faster than that so you just enjoy each round of killing. This game is so inconsistence with itself that it requires HUGE loads of grinding… probably more than a lifetime to get all by yourself (if you are willing to make some math) but at the same it has a LOT of counter-grinding mechanism implemented to stop the bots. So,.. they are not worst, and again… make some maths and you will see that even taking Asian games into account… this game has a LOT more grinding than those games, even when it was not designed for grinding.
I never really felt any grinding in this game. I have 3 level 80’s with another one close behind. One of them is in full exotics/ascended gems, the other 2 are about half built. I have most of my crafting to 400 (taloring is at 457). I believe I joined around the end of dragon bash so I’ve been playing for 5-6 months. I only get to play about 3-4 hours each day (more on weekends) so for a casual player I have to say I feel like I accomplished a lot in such a short amount of time. I will give you some of the material farming feels too grindy (especially with the cost of using them, like some mystic forge recipes use 250t6 material, but that’s where I feel anet needs to work on) but other normal materials are fine. I get a good chunk of them when I run from place to place or when I feel like doing champ farm. Most of the really crazy recipes that require 250 of an item are just for vanity anyway, just like Arah zerker armor and CoF zerker armor.
stupid forum breaks converstaions as it won’t let you add more than 2 quotes… but in the original post it was already clarified that we are talking about the “end game”… what you refer as vanity. Those shinnies are the only thing left for most vet players and it is in fact a huge load of farming.
This game can be considered casual because it has no real goals…
But if you consider the harder things to acquire as end game, this game is far from being casual friendly and its actually one of the most hardcore/grindfest games currently online. Few games demand as many hours online dedicated entirely to farming like GW2,… again, if you are looking for the hard-to-get shinnies.
You never played any Korean grind MMO’s have you? I remember one I’ve played where gaining 1 level took 12 hours (and that was at the mid level range, near cap it was easily 20-24 hours if not more). Loot was not shared and everything worked on the honor system when you did dungeon runs as drops were based on who did the most damage. The most sought out items dropped extremely rarely, the only place that dropped them at a more common area was a PvP map and there were no level restrictions on who could kill who (unless you were on the PvP server, then every map was PvP other then the starters). These items that were most sought after were used to buff the damage of your weapons. You needed 64 of these items to get your weapon from +0 to +9 (if you were lucky that is, most of the time the weapon would break at +5 or +6). Then in later patches they added all the way to +12 which really was impossible to get to I think you need 150-200 of those items).
There are much, much worse grind games out there then this one. Exotic’s are cheap and will hold you over for a while. If you just relax and don’t race to get the best of the best you will have a lot more fun and you will think of this as less of a grind.
Played many… I played more than 30 MMOs (probably more than 50) since 1997. It is the only game genre I actually spend time on. Most of them were Asians and only a few had a working quest system to level… I remember the “good’ol’days” of “I need to kill 3K wolfs to make a level” (and I was only at lvl 20 ish out of hundreds so yeah, I did my share of grindfest… but you know what? those games are designed for that. You accept to grind in a grinding game because it is made in a way it is actually relaxing… you know you won’t go faster than that so you just enjoy each round of killing. This game is so inconsistence with itself that it requires HUGE loads of grinding… probably more than a lifetime to get all by yourself (if you are willing to make some math) but at the same it has a LOT of counter-grinding mechanism implemented to stop the bots. So,.. they are not worst, and again… make some maths and you will see that even taking Asian games into account… this game has a LOT more grinding than those games, even when it was not designed for grinding.
it is the one reason that stopped me from getting this set… no beard, no norn.
Lol… this kind of bugs are so amateur… offering interface options not compatible with all your modules… amazing.
this may be weird to the ear but it makes sense:
Without end game, the game eventually ends.
This game can be considered casual because it has no real goals…
But if you consider the harder things to acquire as end game, this game is far from being casual friendly and its actually one of the most hardcore/grindfest games currently online. Few games demand as many hours online dedicated entirely to farming like GW2,… again, if you are looking for the hard-to-get shinnies.
Happy – Scarlet is going!
Sad – It’s not gone yet…
Happy – Scarlet is going!
Sad – It’s not gone yet…
Happy – Scarlet is going!
Sad – It’s not gone yet…
Happy – Scarlet is going!
Sad – It’s not gone yet…
My emotions are a roller-coaster at the moment
Since day 1 cof and arah were bugged, farmed, exploited,…
there is no prestige in any single piece of armor or weapon in this game… you can wallet almost the entire game.
This is the new legendary staff
That is actually a really nice staff… a little less particle effects maybe,
Scarlet is NCSoft CEO’s daughter.
Only logical explanation.
Can’t except that. Ex-wife … I can see that.
I meant she was molded to his daughter desires.
Next update, more plush back pieces and cotton candy weapons.
Scarlet is NCSoft CEO’s daughter.
Only logical explanation.
2) In WoW getting a full set of T1 raid gear means you’re all set to do the second raid for your T2 set. Which gets you the gear for the third raid. And so on. You can’t choose
And what exactly did you choose here?
Good luck being anything else but a pure dps machine in any serious group.
Because WvW. That’s why.
And if new tier every 2-3 months is added on this game, a lot of people would QQ. So ain’t happening.
There are other games with so much better realm vs realm than GW2…
I’ll just drop one tiny HUGE detail that makes this game bad for pvp…. body blocking.
Nuff said…. without body blocking the whole system of taking and defending things is pointless. Any serious pvp oriented game has it. In GW2 pvp is a minigame for the lulz when you are bored of the pve minigame for the lulz.
(edited by Mesket.5728)
Charging players for their database cleanup…
Genius. I take off my hat ANet.