It kinda depends on class and game mode I guess.
E.g. Druid has completly different role than “normal” Ranger.
What about making Stronkhold main mode instead of Failquest and balance around it…?
hows druid OP? yes you cant kill him even 2vs1, but on other hand he cant kill you either, he just dont deal any serious dmg. Stop qq, learn how to counter them.
You can. Just bait Signet of Stone and then chain CC.
Thats funny, because I’ve problems only with Revenants.
What you want to discuss here?
Bad development is bad development.
B2P and F2P are completly different models.
2 and a half pages of people who want minstrel back … And then there is chaith
This thread does not speak for the community as a whole or even a majority. Minstrel amulet is the most boring amulet to play and play against. I do not want it back and I could care less what the ESL players in this thread want for their tournaments, I just want a solo q that is actually fun and not timed out every time.
I thought that the most boring amulets are Berserker/Marauder.
Profession Balance forum has been removed for a reason.
Anet doesn’t need our opinion on balance matter.
They know better what we want and what doesn’t work.Plus, Gw2 is F2P.
You’re free to play it or not.
It isn’t F2P, I’ve bought two boxes and I demand quality as customer.
Let us use them in Unranked finaly, especially since Ranked is disabled.
Give me +30% dmg while Pet is disabled and you may be sure that as DPS Ranger I would keep it disabled for ~90% time.
People want just Spin to Win, spam Shatter etc.
Anything else than Power builds make them lose their minds.
We know that they are playing at NA.
1) All amulets are limited to 3 stats
2) No amulet can have both Vitality and Toughness
What about
1) All amulets are limited to 3 stats
2) No amulet can have both Power and Precision
?
Idk, I was getting Blue Screen after Blue Screen in Stronkhold so I’m waiting until stuff will be patched before I try again.
Now refund my HoT Anet, since I’ve bought it only because of Minstrel.
Dude, you can’t ban items that are allowed in 5v5 tournament play. No competitive team will participate in this if you ban something.
Are you sure? Grenadier trait was banned during ESL, all ‘competitive’ teams played.
Honestly, there is not much difference between banning bugged and/or broken stuff… for example I would rather watch tournament with some stuff banned (e.g. some D/D toys to promote diversity) than tournament without bans (reason I don’t watch ESLs anymore – they are boring).P.S.
People usualy compete to win rewards, not because something is or isn’t banned.Grenadier was banned by ANet shortly after from the game, aka Disabled, until it could be fixed.
First it was banned during ESLs, disabled by ANet like week later or so…
Exactly “banned” shortly after it was banned from ESL because it was bugged.
There were other ‘bugged’ things that wasn’t banned. Really don’t get your point.
Dude, you can’t ban items that are allowed in 5v5 tournament play. No competitive team will participate in this if you ban something.
Are you sure? Grenadier trait was banned during ESL, all ‘competitive’ teams played.
Honestly, there is not much difference between banning bugged and/or broken stuff… for example I would rather watch tournament with some stuff banned (e.g. some D/D toys to promote diversity) than tournament without bans (reason I don’t watch ESLs anymore – they are boring).P.S.
People usualy compete to win rewards, not because something is or isn’t banned.Grenadier was banned by ANet shortly after from the game, aka Disabled, until it could be fixed.
First it was banned during ESLs, disabled by ANet like week later or so…
Blackout used to be double edged sword. I’m against as long as it would affect only enemy.
Dude, you can’t ban items that are allowed in 5v5 tournament play. No competitive team will participate in this if you ban something.
Are you sure? Grenadier trait was banned during ESL, all ‘competitive’ teams played.
Honestly, there is not much difference between banning bugged and/or broken stuff… for example I would rather watch tournament with some stuff banned (e.g. some D/D toys to promote diversity) than tournament without bans (reason I don’t watch ESLs anymore – they are boring).
P.S.
People usualy compete to win rewards, not because something is or isn’t banned.
Good change, but… Power Ranger doesn’t need nerfs…
So… they just nerfed Rampage… on class that was offering only Rampage.
better nurf Necro… I guess more chill nerfs incoming…
So it’s time for unskilled Mesmers to start distracting playerbase just to keep their new broken stuff, well done, well done…
This forum is nothing but a distraction.
The new patch is not even live and armchair programmers already know the meta.
I am champ illusionist so i can reroll to the new best class but i dont want to.
elemtentalists were an abomination to deal with pre 28th patch and is even worse now.
Good thing im pro in tera online which actually favor skill over stupid bunker builds.
“New patch”?
Oh, we got patch finaly… thanks you!
(edited by Morwath.9817)
So it’s time for unskilled Mesmers to start distracting playerbase just to keep their new broken stuff, well done, well done…
The problem is not that they made mistakes, the problem is that they are extremely slow at fixing them. It has been more then a month since the patch came out and they have not fixed the majority of the bugs even, let alone obvious balance issues.
I agree. Mesmers should’ve been fixed within few days…
Reminds me day when one guy threw during ESL:
guy: “amazing balance Anet, again no Rangers”
Grouch: “there are no Rangers because even if Rangers are good people won’t reroll week after patch”
^While each single team had freshy rerolled Mesmer…
you want the dev that introduced extreme power creep to balance this game? no ty
I think Robert did very well.
Imho they failed as balance team as whole with their testing or rather lack of it.
destroys all minions.
Why does a skill put my heal, all my utilities and my elite on cool down.
Because of terrible design.
General anwer is simple: reward vs risk, effort vs effect. You know the class is broken when it requires too little effort to have huge impact on match.
Both answers are incorrect.
Both ‘risk’ and ‘effort’ are subjective, especially in game focused on team play.
I would say profession is broken when it outperform others in purpose they should fulfil more or less equaly. As good example we can use ‘+1’ zerker/marauder roamers: a) Mesmer, b) Thief, c) Ranger, where a => b > c.
Please explain, how can the team with the Mesmer be good in 1v1 and 5v5 but still lose every team fight?
Team A has more sustain/group support so they win fights, team B has more mobility and can outmanouvre enemies easily without winning fights.
(edited by Morwath.9817)
Why did you play when bunkers were poking eachother for 5 min i think it was boring as f****
This is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better !!
They were not.
If you think otherwise, find a single final of ESL in 2015 (EU or NA) where people poke each other for 5 minutes and nobody dies.
(edited by Morwath.9817)
I see your argument, but I will stick with necromancer as one of the classes I play until I stop playing this game. Its fun for me, and I don’t think its pleasant to think about how I’m running a nceromancer is hurting my team instead of playing d/d ele or mantraspam mesmer, so in conclusion, I will play how I want because I know that I am good at this class and I can help my team win by playing it.
Sorry this is a really complex argument, but I’ve just been arguing so much on the forums (against the antiwarhorn ele coalition ie. the most stubborn vocal minority in the history of gw2) that I really can’t argue anymore and its stressing me out.
I think playing weaker (Necro) or inferior (Ranger) profession (compared to FOTMs) shouldn’t be any issue as long as you don’t aim at competitive scene… so play what you enjoy, for same reason Ranger is one of my favourite picks (Necro>Ranger>Guardian) ;-)
However, if we consider discussing ‘tier lists’ and such, we should be honest with ourselves about pros/cons of each profession.
Few thoughts:
-> Boon Corruption is much weaker feature than prepatch. It’s random now, which means no Fear chains on targets with Stability.
-> Condi Transfers are much weaker, since there are less condis around. No Shoutbow, no Terrormancers, no Cele Rifle Engies.
-> You can’t have all features you’ve mentioned above while playing Celestial: a) Signets and fast Might stacking; b) Wells and AoE cleave, c) ability to disengage with Flesh Wurm, d) Blood Magic.
-> I would like to mention that actualy Necro is pretty bad at disengaging while unfavoured (enemy gets +1) unless you play both Flesh Wurm and Plague. Which imho means you overvaluated how good Necro is in 1v1, since 1v1 leads often to +1 at one side.
-> Death Shroud is inferior compared to any escape mechanism while under focused fire, since a) you can’t benefit from AoE heals/regeneration, b) you’ve to take all incoming damage.
-> Contributing in larger fights require sacrifices (e.g. you’ve to pick Blood Magic instead of Spite(boon corruption,might stacking)/Curses(passive transfer, weakening shroud)/Soul Reaping (survi). Necro by deflaut is selfish class.
(edited by Morwath.9817)
They can’t disable a whole profession..can they?
In LoL they would.
Then fix it in few hours…
Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.
Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.
Well even so, thats a moot point. Comparing two different stat set ups in two different metas doesn’t really achieve much for us. We have to focus on the now while learning from the past, and right now condi necro sucks, and I know you know this, and being squishy is only one of the many reasons it sucks. Cele necro is good now, and thats what counts, even if you insist that terrormancer was better than it was in the past, I just don’t see how that argument helps us rate the current viablity of necromancer.
Maybe I should ask differently:
-> What is Necro good for?
-> What Necro does better than other professions?
-> What Necro does worse than other professions?
-> Summarize… and ask yourself, if you there is a reason to pick Necro instead of other profession?
Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,
I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.
Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.
And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.
And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.
Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.
You’re crazy man .. The LF gen buffs post patch coupled with signets and celestial are more sustainable than terrormancer and you do kitten with conditions now , this alone is justification for not running terrormancer now nevermind the less survivability. Even if they had equal or even more survivability than cele sig necro, conditions don’t work due to aoe cleanse. This gives you both, with might generation and tankyness. You end up hitting near zerk #‘s with 20+ and your conditions are near condi amulet #’s with higher toughness and healing power. Sig also good for teams.
Have I said a that TerrorM is viable (?), or maybe I’ve said that it was viable (?) and it was more viable than Celestial is right now? Not viable actualy, but able to survive longer…
Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.
Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.
Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,
I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.
Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.
And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.
And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.
Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.
The question of the so called op builds is there a counter. Its why i think the current pvp situation is ok. Necro counters the mesmer and ele meta builds. I feel like more teams will be more 1-1-1-1-1-1 teams since there are counters. No more 2 engy 2 eles 1 class tourneys.
How does Necro counters Mesmer doing +1?
Right now the best 3 builds is the cele/bunk necro and ele and a burst mesmer. After that teams can go anywhere. The only class really struggling to me is ranger but there are counters to other classes. Another class thats good vs the mesmer is a bunker guardian who can decap and cap the point while the mesmer it trying to kill him forcing the other team to get another player to help and kill him.
How can Bunker Guardian decap and cap already guarded point?
Why would Mesmer try to kill Bunker Guard alone and waste time as +1 roaming profession, who even if can perform well in some 1v1, shouldn’t 1v1?
New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?We simply don’t.
Other successful games, such as Dota 2, balance around the veteran, top tier, players. Should the same not be done here?
Obviously it should.
But my point was: nobody balances anything around anything in GW2.
A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
ThiefB:
Warrior
Engie
RangerC:
Necro.This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..
So maybe A-, B, and C+?
Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.
Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.
Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.
Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.
That’s not what he said.
^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?
Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.
Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?
Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.
But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.
Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.
→ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)
New player vs new player: pew pew ranger = OP.
Veteran player vs veteran player: pew pew ranger = Free kills.Who do we balance for?
Do we balance around the idea that people should be able to learn to play?
Or do we balance around the idea that people cannot learn, and are forever casual?
We simply don’t.
A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
ThiefB:
Warrior
Engie
RangerC:
Necro.This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..
So maybe A-, B, and C+?
Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.
Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.
Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.
Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.
That’s not what he said.
^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?
Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.
Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?
Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
→ I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…
(edited by Morwath.9817)
So 4 man Teams have to split in 2 × 2 man Teams? That’s not the best way to encourage team play and build a community.
So 4 man has to find 5th man before they que.
And honestly 2+3 vs 5 is as fair/unfair as 3+1+1 vs 4+1 or 2+1+1+1 vs. 3+1+1. So I see no improvement here.
I disagree.
3+2 is much more fair than 3+1+1 vs 5. Since being 2 as roamers (e.g. Mesmer & Thief) instead of 1+1 can already means that: a) you’re playing with someone you know; b) you can communicate with that person on VC; c) that also means you aren’t playing as 2+1+1+1 vs 5 and a+b is true between those 3 too.
(edited by Morwath.9817)
Im really tired of being put in 5 premades vs 5 pug, it just isnt fun.
I hardly ever see that. Most of the times I see things like 3+1+1 vs 4+1 or 2+1+1+1 vs. 3+1+1. Most of the premades are not full 5 man groups. So what is your solution for that? Have queues for 5, 4, 3, 2 and solo? That would result in 1 h queue times. I think the current system is quite good and results in acceptable queue times. Waiting just isn’t fun.
The best option is to split ques in two: 2+ and soloQ.
This would lead to parings like 2+3 or 5 vs 2+3 or 5. Obviously you couldn’t que as 4 in such que system.
Maybe because the players simply doesn’t believe to rangers or they are just bad playing it. I will still repeat it. Ranger is one of the best classes according me. Most ppl just having no clue how to use it.
I am not gonna argue with you or with anyone about how to play pvp. As for me the most important factor in pvp is 1v1 anyway, since in 3 points game you mostlikely fight on 2 nodes 1v1.
But back to ranger. I can’t see what other classes have while ranger doesn’t. Ranger can support your teams as any other class or even better, while still be one of the best 1v1 class.
It doesn’t matters how good profession in 1v1 is, as long as:
→ it can’t do anything (including disengage) when enemy gets +1;
→ bring nothing to team fights.
A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
ThiefB:
Warrior
Engie
RangerC:
Necro.This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..
So maybe A-, B, and C+?
Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.
Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.
Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.
Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.
That’s not what he said.
^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.
What is this .. This…. Respectable necro build you speak of?
You mean Nos?
→ Celestial
→ Spite (Signets)/Curses(Weakening Shroud)/SoulReaping
→ Staff , Dagger+Warhorn
→ Signets
A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
ThiefB:
Warrior
Engie
RangerC:
Necro.This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..
So maybe A-, B, and C+?
Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.
Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.
Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.
Point Holders:
-> Ele
-> Bunker Guardian
Roamers:
-> Mesmer
-> Thief
-> Warrior
→ Guardian
Rest may be used as fillers…
@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.